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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Justin Ross Harris Trial
NeedaVaca 07:19 AM 10-24-2016
This case has intrigued me from the beginning, the trial finally started and I've been following it. In the trial groups I'm in I have already seen it mentioned that daycares should have to call when a child doesn't arrive on time. I knew that aspect would come up...anyone else following the trial?

Edited to add-This is the hot car death case
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Rockgirl 07:44 AM 10-24-2016
I haven't been following the trial, but I cringe thinking about that liability falling on us daycare providers. Scary.
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Ariana 07:46 AM 10-24-2016
I am not reading up on the case but somehow this is our responsibility? Ugh.

Car manufacturers really need to take the lead on this and make some sort of sensor system that goes off when movement is detected inside a car when the engine is off.
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sharlan 07:58 AM 10-24-2016
Why should car manufacturers be responsible? What happened to PARENT responsibility?
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Ariana 08:15 AM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Why should car manufacturers be responsible? What happened to PARENT responsibility?
Parent responsibility is not working and kids are dying. These deaths are accidents not premeditated murder. A sensor would go a long way in saving kids lives. I dont think it is the responsibility of the car manufacturer I just think it would be a good thing if they did something like this.
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MarinaVanessa 08:34 AM 10-24-2016
I'm not following the case because I just can't. I'm not able to sleep at night if I read terrible articles or watch the news about babies and kids dying, going missing etc.

But I personally have made the conscience decision to call clients that haven't arrived on time. For me it serves two purposes 1) to make sure that the client doesn't in fact leave their kid in their car or at home and 2) as an excuse to call when they are late to make sure that they are coming and just forgot to call me (and I don't just sit around waiting for them all day).

But that's my choice and I don't believe that it should be a forced requirement of a daycare. That would mean that a human is responsible to check on someone but there is always room for human error. Daycare is crazy and things could happen that makes it so that it can get lost in the shuffle and then what? It's the daycare's fault that a child dies because they didn't call and a parent forgot their child in the car? No way.
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Baby Beluga 08:41 AM 10-24-2016
I have not followed the case, but I too make the call (or text) if someone is late (I usually do about 30/45 minutes depending on the family and their habits) if I have not heard anything.

I do this for a couple of reasons, 1) to make sure no child was accidentally left behind and 2) to make sure a family wasn't in an accident on their way here. Many families travel on a major highway to get here AND we have a large snowbird population that comes this time of year. Without fail, there is at least 1 wrong way driver each day. I am always worried someone will be in an accident and no one will no until later. It just puts me at peace.

ETA: I do not feel the well checks should be the responsibility of the provider. Once the parent is out of my door I feel their child's well-being is solely their responsibility. I also think car seat alarms and car alarms are making it so parents are less responsible and less aware. We as a society have become so out of touch with the current moment and I feel that alarms like that only make it worse.
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midaycare 10:04 AM 10-24-2016
Being responsible for a child when they are not in my care upsets me. I can't control a parents' actions and should not be held accountable.

With that said, I will contact a parent if they are 30 minutes outside of their dropoff time. But...I have some with a 90 minute window, so...a child could be stuck in the car for 2 hours before I reach out.
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spedmommy4 08:17 AM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Why should car manufacturers be responsible? What happened to PARENT responsibility?
Yes. I have 4 kids. At one time, three of the 4 were in car seats. I worked or went to school during the car seat years. (At times both) I am forgetful, but I have never left one of my kiddos behind.

I don't think car seat alarms/sensors are a bad thing, but they aren't the auto manufacturers responsibility. And calling parents to about missed attendance shouldn't be a providers responsibility either. When kids are with their parents, the responsibility for a child safety falls on the parents.
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Ariana 09:36 AM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by spedmommy4:
Yes. I have 4 kids. At one time, three of the 4 were in car seats. I worked or went to school during the car seat years. (At times both) I am forgetful, but I have never left one of my kiddos behind.

I don't think car seat alarms/sensors are a bad thing, but they aren't the auto manufacturers responsibility. And calling parents to about missed attendance shouldn't be a providers responsibility either. When kids are with their parents, the responsibility for a child safety falls on the parents.
Accidents happen because they are accidents. Thank God this has never happened to you, you are lucky. Every parent that this has ever had this happen , it happened when it was not part of their routine to drop a kid off or pick them up. It was an accident. It is for sure a parents responsibility but everything is invented to prevent human frailty and accidents.

Originally Posted by :
Oh, I am really not in favor of this...the amount of hours I have spent in my car quietly reading while waiting for one of my kids to come out of sports practices... If I had a periodic alarm going off? No thanks.
I am sure the genius engineers could come up with a better system. For example if the weight is in the backseat and is less than 40lbs. Or if the heat reaches a certain temp and there is movement detected. Ever notice the front passenger airbag gets turned off when the weight is less than a certain amount? Something like that.
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Blackcat31 08:57 AM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Why should car manufacturers be responsible? What happened to PARENT responsibility?


Originally Posted by Rockgirl:
I haven't been following the trial, but I cringe thinking about that liability falling on us daycare providers. Scary.

With responsibility automatically comes liability.

No thanks. I refuse to take on a liability like that.

I would quit before I agreed to be responsible for a parent's distraction....it's just another way to basically reward parents for bad behaviors. Just make it someone else's fault.
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LadyMacbeth 09:11 AM 10-24-2016
I am one of those people that is constantly posting reminders about this on facebook everytime summer starts. At first I was sympathetic...these are accidents, the parents changed their schedule, routine took over, they went though the motions, it could happen to anybody. Now, it has gotten to the point where we are all very much aware of this danger, and the fact that parents have not done anything to prevent this and take on the attitude of "I would never do that to my child" and yet it's those parents that it happens to because they're too proud to realize that they are only human, that angers me so much!!!

I have taught myself, to the point where it is now instinct, to take a quick look in the back seat of my car just to be extra sure there's nothing important back there. I have never left my kid, but it was because of that behavior that I realized one of them left a cup of milk back there. That would have been a doozy in this crazy Houston heat!
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Unregistered 09:37 AM 10-24-2016
No way! This guy did this on purpose. He went out to his car 3 or 4 hours later and never noticed his son! My heart aches for that little boy. I still cry over this case. Parents need to be held accountable. I think he planned this and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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Fiddlesticks 08:19 AM 10-24-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I am not reading up on the case but somehow this is our responsibility? Ugh.

Car manufacturers really need to take the lead on this and make some sort of sensor system that goes off when movement is detected inside a car when the engine is off.
Oh, I am really not in favor of this...the amount of hours I have spent in my car quietly reading while waiting for one of my kids to come out of sports practices... If I had a periodic alarm going off? No thanks.
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itsallaboutthekids 12:26 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
This case has intrigued me from the beginning, the trial finally started and I've been following it. In the trial groups I'm in I have already seen it mentioned that daycares should have to call when a child doesn't arrive on time. I knew that aspect would come up...anyone else following the trial?

Edited to add-This is the hot car death case
What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?
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Blackcat31 12:29 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by itsallaboutthekids:
What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?
So you are essentially blaming daycares for the death of these children???????
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itsallaboutthekids 12:32 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So you are essentially blaming daycares for the death of these children???????
No, not at all.

I'm just saying it would be good to institute an 'absence line.'

Everyone who is part of the team caring for an innocent child should be communicating with each other.
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Blackcat31 12:37 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by itsallaboutthekids:
No, not at all.

I'm just saying it would be good to institute an 'absence line.'

Everyone who is part of the team caring for an innocent child should be communicating with each other.
The liability a public school has is VASTLY different than the liability of a private self employed business owner.

Why should I have to take on additional responsibilities because some parents are stressed out or too busy to implement their own methods of making sure their child is never left in a car?

Why is it always someone else's responsibility first before the parent?

Do you know how many responsibilities child care providers take on each and every day...most of whom work alone.

If child care providers took on the responsibility of calling, what do you think the fall out would be if one day they forgot to call and something happened? Who do you think would be to blame? Who do you think will lose everything?

Curious why you aren't talking instead about what parents can do FIRST before asking car manufactures and child care providers etc to take responsibility. What can PARENTS do that will ensure THEIR child is safe?
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Blackcat31 01:00 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by itsallaboutthekids:
No, not at all.

I'm just saying it would be good to institute an 'absence line.'

Everyone who is part of the team caring for an innocent child should be communicating with each other.
I did RE-READ and you said QUOTE "Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle." END QUOTE


How does that translate to we should institute an absence line????
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Second Home 01:52 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by itsallaboutthekids:
What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?
Our public schools do not call when a child is absent .
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nanglgrl 02:43 PM 10-25-2016
Originally Posted by itsallaboutthekids:
What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?
An automated call or even a personal call made from a school with an actual secretary is vastly different from a home daycare. Parents show up late all of the time, forget to tell us about vacations, schedule changes and forget to call in when their child is sick. For some parents it's habitual and you just never know if their child is coming until they show up 2 hours late.
Imagine 8 families all arriving about the same time, Conversations with parents, well child checks at the door and dealing with separation anxiety. Then it's time to serve 8 children breakfast and deal with cooking, washing hands, documenting for the food program, serving, cleaning up. Little Johny hasnt arrived yet. This happens a lot and in the past you've called only to find out they slept in or he's not coming that day so it's not irregular that he hasn't arrived yet. You decide to call but wait, someone just threw their food on the floor, had a blow out diaper...etc. maybe after all of this you forget to call or maybe you remember but by now it's 2 hours after he was supposed to arrive when you finally get a chance to do so. What if you text instead? What if you call and no one answers so you leave a voice mail? Where would the liability end? Would providers have to call until they actually talked to a parent? Providers can't and shouldn't shoulder this responsibility. Could we charge parents for not calling in? Sure but that would be just one more fee we'd have to argue with parents about and still doesn't solve the problem of what if we don't call right away because we're taking care of multiple children of varied ages by ourselves.
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Rockgirl 12:50 PM 10-25-2016
I don't think anyone said a daycare provider *shouldnt* call. But when they make it a requirement, we will be held liable. That's not something I am ready to take on.

Every time I see a post about one of these tragic deaths online, someone comments that the parents should make a reminder for themselves, like putting the diaper bag in the front seat. Then someone says, "You shouldn't NEED a reminder that your child is with you!" Ok, true enough. But if something so simple can prevent this, why not just do it?

The thought of me being liable for the death of a child who hasn't even reached my house for the day just scares the heck out of me. I pray it doesn't come to that.
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Tags:hot car death, negligent, negligent homicide
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