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Heidi 11:31 AM 10-30-2013
I just received my relicensing packet in the mail. My license expires at the end of the year.

I have 4 children enrolled, 1 of which (the oldest...turned 2 yesterday), is state funded (for state funded, the provider must be regulated).

If I let my license lapse, I can care for 3 kids without one. I have a 3 passenger car. I am tired of being stuck at home all the time, and would love to take the kids on trips to the wildlife refuge, a playgroup, or other places.

So, I have to choose between letting one guy go (oh, and I might loose him anyway because his mom is traveling a long way here and then to work), or to keep him. If I let him go, I can keep my vehicle. If I keep him, I would need a different vehicle, and an alarm system (required for 6+ passengers).

I would also loose the $300 per month from the food program.

I have to send the packet in by November 30th.



WWYD?

BTW, because I live out of town a ways, I have never had more than 5 full-timers. I only get calls for infants, almost never for older kids, so I'm pretty much maxed at 4 or 5 for ratio compliance.

Taking 3 full-time and possibly OCCASIONAL drop-in care for former clients or one of my grandchildren would be ok. If I take 4 regularly, I'd be out operating illegally according to state regulations.

Also...because of our QRIS, I am taking classes, and am kind of burned out at the whole "teacher" aspect of it. I am Auntie here. We play, we bake, we read, we dance, we take walks, we nap. I don't do structured lessons or write a curriculum. I don't do evaluations (I can, but I don't), or formal conferences. I don't want to, and my customers don't have any interest in any of it. They want their children happy, secure, and cared for.
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permanentvacation 11:36 AM 10-30-2013
I think that you have to think of how not renewing your license will effect you in the immediate future and in the long run. You currently can afford to only have 3 kids, but are you sure that in the long run you won't need to be able to obtain more income? If something happens to any of the kids you currently have that don't care if you are licensed or not, how easy will it be to replace them if you are not licensed? By not renewing your license, you will no longer be able to get the Food Program money. What were you using that income for? Are you sure you don't need/want that income?

Can you renew your license and make some changes in how you do the things that are required so you still meet the requirements, but aren't irritated by them? If you use the same QRIS that I know of, there are different levels. Do you have to maintain a specific level to be licensed in your area? If so, are the things that you would rather not have to do actually above the level required? Can you incorporate the baking, reading, dancing, etc. into a curriculum? Can you change the way the evaluations/conferences are done so they are less business-like and more bearable for you?

Keep in mind that just because you are allowed to have more than 3 kids doesn't mean that you have to watch more than 3 kids. You can watch only the 3 kids you want to watch, claim those 3 on the food program, and would have the opportunity to immediately take on more kids if something happens financially and you find yourself needing extra income in the future.

If you are truly worn out and know that having to do even the least of the requirements to renew your license will still make you unhappy, then yes, take a break. You might need to allow yourself the freedom from rules and regulations for a while.
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Scout 11:41 AM 10-30-2013
I can't tell you what is right for you but, I can tell you that I am in the same boat with being stuck here all the time when it's too cold to walk places or timing would take too long. I would love to either have a larger vehicle to transport kids in(which is out of the financial question right now) or have less kids and be able to fit them in my current vehicle. If the state changes and we need to become licensed to operate as I do right now, I am considering changing to becoming a nanny or taking a ft job outside of the home that would be 2nd shift so that I don't need to take DS2 to a daycare. I have already done the daycare route with my kids and not that I wouldn't but, it was a financial mess for us. I need to be able to be home to get DS1 on the bus in the morning and not have the other go somewhere we have to pay. DH gets off work at 2:30 so tecnically I could work that out, although it wouldn't be ideal. I began a pt job yesturday from 5-9pm and it wasn't bad at all being out at night. I haven't worked past 4:30 in years. This is when I realized worst case scenerio, I could still be home when I need to be but, earn a living as well. I hope this decision comes easily to you! Sorry for the ramble!
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melilley 11:44 AM 10-30-2013
I would renew. That way you can choose how many kids you want to take. If you only want 3, then you can have 3, if you change your mind and want more, then you can have more. If you don't, you will be stuck at 3.

This QRIS is getting to me too. I do do some "learning", but in no way do I want to be a home preschool! The lady from the resource center came over the other day and was explaining some things I can do to be a 4 instead of a 3 and it just doesn't sound like something I want to do. I'm supposed to be completing a plan (I can't think of the name right now) on things to work on to get another star, but keep putting it off because I don't think I want to be 4 stars! To me, the way they want things done makes it sound like I should be a center, not a cozy home!
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TwinKristi 11:45 AM 10-30-2013
If you're in the position financially to lose the 4th child and $300 in food program money (all from that 1 child or are you giving that up due to regulation? We can be unlicensed in CA and still participate) than it would make sense to simplify things. I personally don't care for the teacher aspect of it either. The classes I've taken were often geared towards centers and large mixed groups which I don't have at this point. I'm in a similar position as you but not by choice. Come Jan I will only have one boy here 3 days a week and my own children, well one after school as well but he's going to be 10 in Jan and won't count in my ratios anymore. So I could give up my license or put a temp hold on it, and just watch 1 child. Tough choices!!
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butterfly 11:46 AM 10-30-2013
Oh the licensing dilemma... I've gone back and forth on whether to be licensed or not too. For me it came down to liability insurance. I can't be insured without being licensed. I've never had to make an insurance claim (praise God!), but I'd hate to operate without it.

In my state, I can have just as many kids (12!) with or without a license. But then I'd loose the food program money too and currently I'm on Tier1.

I also like the free advertising - being on the state registered listing.

In my state, I have the option of opting out of the state pay program. I don't have to take or file for the state assistance clients. I can just tell them I don't take it and not mess with that at all. I did decide to take it though since I have a heart for foster kids and they are all on the assistance program.

I don't transport due to liability and I have too many to do so, but I do take the summers off and I LOVE being able to leave the house any time I feel like it. I can take my own kids to activities without having to worry about dragging everyone else with.

For now, I've decided to stay licensed. I may end up changing my mind, but we'll see.
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butterfly 11:47 AM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
I would renew my license. Just because you are allowed to have more than 3 kids doesn't mean that you have to watch more than 3 kids. So, I would renew my license which would allow me to watch the 3 kids I want to watch, claim those 3 on the food program, and would allow me the opportunity to immediately take on more kids if something happens financially and I find myself needing extra income in the future.
That's a good point. You could renew your license and still let the 4th child go. Getting rid of the state pay client, allowing yourself the chance to get out of the house and still keeping your options open to taking on more clients in the future if you desire.
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Heidi 12:03 PM 10-30-2013
Downfalls of having a license, besides the unplanned visits (about once a year, so not so bad).

765 or so licensing rules...sigh. Most of them really are just sensible, but I hate that looming over me, that a piece of missing paper could mean a non-compliance.

Costs: $60.50/licensing fee, annual water test $150, membership to professional organizations & The Registry (for training) $100/year I think, insurance $550 a year (I could get a rider on my homeowners a lot cheaper if I wasn't licensed, but they won't give a rider to a "professional".

Because of the rampant fraud, licensing SAYS we have to call and report anytime we are closed or out of the program. Seriously, they want us to call and tell them AND the food program if we aren't here. So, they don't waste their time coming, and so we don't file false claims for food or assistance clients. This also makes me go , because I would never do either one of those things.

Pros:
Food program monthly check is about $300, and kiddo I'd be losing is about $100 per week (4 days). There are also some TEACH scholarships and various small stipends that are about $400 per year. QRIS gives us a microgrant of $500 per year, but we have to spend it out of the catalogs, and I don't NEED anything. My house is so dang small, it's already packed to the gills with toys.
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Neekie 12:06 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
I just received my relicensing packet in the mail. My license expires at the end of the year.

I have 4 children enrolled, 1 of which (the oldest...turned 2 yesterday), is state funded (for state funded, the provider must be regulated).

If I let my license lapse, I can care for 3 kids without one. I have a 3 passenger car. I am tired of being stuck at home all the time, and would love to take the kids on trips to the wildlife refuge, a playgroup, or other places.

So, I have to choose between letting one guy go (oh, and I might loose him anyway because his mom is traveling a long way here and then to work), or to keep him. If I let him go, I can keep my vehicle. If I keep him, I would need a different vehicle, and an alarm system (required for 6+ passengers).

I would also loose the $300 per month from the food program.

I have to send the packet in by November 30th.



WWYD?

BTW, because I live out of town a ways, I have never had more than 5 full-timers. I only get calls for infants, almost never for older kids, so I'm pretty much maxed at 4 or 5 for ratio compliance.

Taking 3 full-time and possibly OCCASIONAL drop-in care for former clients or one of my grandchildren would be ok. If I take 4 regularly, I'd be out operating illegally according to state regulations.

Also...because of our QRIS, I am taking classes, and am kind of burned out at the whole "teacher" aspect of it. I am Auntie here. We play, we bake, we read, we dance, we take walks, we nap. I don't do structured lessons or write a curriculum. I don't do evaluations (I can, but I don't), or formal conferences. I don't want to, and my customers don't have any interest in any of it. They want their children happy, secure, and cared for.
Heidi, I am considering doing the very same thing. Being licensed has taken all the joy out of doing child care for me. I long for the days when things were simple and care-free. Kids are being pushed way too fast now-a-days. What happened to just letting them be kids? It seems like everything we do we have to have a reason to do it. It can't just be for fun anymore. Preschool children should be working on self-help skills, good manners, safety issues, and social skills. They should be given free choices with-in reason and allowed to be creative. We should be interacting with them in ways that will build their self-esteem and that will allow them to make mistakes and be themselves. I don't need to be a formal preschool teacher to do that and I don't need a college degree either. Kids learn by doing things and experiencing things in life, by doing everyday things that happen in a family or that should happen in a family anyway. If I do everything that the state wants me to do on a daily basis and follow all of their rules, it takes way too much time away from the children and I resent that. There are way too many people coming in and out of my house all the time...licencors, food program reps, YoungStar reps. And now there is talk about building inspections, fire inspections, and health department inspections coming in the future as well. I am about ready to throw the towel in. The children need my undivided attention. Sorry about my ranting, but this just how frustrated I am. The state seems to worry more about paperwork and other such things than they do about the children. And they certainly do not care anything about the providers. Now I know paperwork and rules are important and are needed, but they just go too far with things. Sorry, I kind of vented on your thread. I am mad and frustrated with all the red tape and drama all the time. And I don't know why, but lately the licencors have been coming about once every three months or so in our area. They never used to come more than once a year to a year and a half before. It sounds like your are as frustrated with the system and the added expenses as I am. And I am afraid it is only going to get worse. I can't tell you what you should do, but I am really thinking of turning in my licenses so doing child care can be fun and free again.
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Heidi 12:17 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Neekie:
Heidi, I am considering doing the very same thing. Being licensed has taken all the joy out of doing child care for me. I long for the days when things were simple and care-free. Kids are being pushed way too fast now-a-days. What happened to just letting them be kids? It seems like everything we do we have to have a reason to do it. It can't just be for fun anymore. Preschool children should be working on self-help skills, good manners, safety issues, and social skills. They should be given free choices with-in reason and allowed to be creative. We should be interacting with them in ways that will build their self-esteem and that will allow them to make mistakes and be themselves. If I do everything that the state wants me to do on a daily basis and follow all of their rules, it takes way too much time away from the children and I resent that. There are way too many people coming in and out of house all the time...licencors, food program reps, YoungStar reps. And now there is talk about building inspections, fire inspections, and health department inspections coming in the future as well. I am about ready to throw the towel in. The children need my undivided attention. Sorry about my ranting, but this just how frustrated I am. The state seems to worry more about paperwork and other such things than they do about the children. And they certainly do not care anything about the providers. Now I know paperwork and rules are important and are needed, but they just go too far with things. Sorry, I kind of vented on your thread, but I think I answered your question somewhere in there.
It's okay! If you read my posts over the last couple years, you'll find I've ranted the same way.

On top of it all, in this area, NO ONE cares if their provider is licensed. We honestly have about 10 illegal providers in a county of 26,000 people. Not just unregulated, illegal big time. Some have been in business 20+ years. No one gives a hoot. I'm making all this effort and competing against that, too.
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LK5kids 12:20 PM 10-30-2013
If it was me I would take the three and get out and about! Someone mentioned keeping your license for a future, what if. That is a good idea, but I get you on getting out from under our licensing regs and the expense of staying licensed.

I love the teaching aspect, but mainly for two's and up. If I had all infant/toddlers I would do as you do and just have fun in an inviting, warm, loving environment. I would say forget it to lesson plans for infants....yuck!

I would probably stay licensed for the food program, but would consider having parents bring food if I dropped my license.

What are you thinking as these kids get older? Will you keep them or will they age out?

I thought the alarm was required no matter how many you transport. That's interesting it is not. Good to know.

We have very few or no illegal providers. They were shut down years ago. That at least helped me. I don't know if it makes a difference that the pop. is only 6,500-everybody knows everbody, county seat=human services works out of this town for our county. I heard from a provider in Madison illegal FCC is rampant there. I would be sooooo frustrated if that was the case here, too!

I think taking the three only and getting out is a great idea!

Good luck with this decision!
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Play Care 12:21 PM 10-30-2013
I would be unlicensed in a heartbeat if I could. Not because I am doing anything "wrong" but because I don't like the direction the state of FCC is headed.

My town sounds similar to yours in that parents are looking for kids to be safe and secure. I've mentioned before that multiple stars, accreditations, etc may mean something elsewhere but parents here are not going to pay extra for those things.

I wish...
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Willow 12:25 PM 10-30-2013
Would be a no brainer for me, and it really sounds like you've already made up your mind if you go back through and read what you've written
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Maria2013 12:28 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by melilley:
I would renew. That way you can choose how many kids you want to take. If you only want 3, then you can have 3, if you change your mind and want more, then you can have more. If you don't, you will be stuck at 3.

This QRIS is getting to me too. I do do some "learning", but in no way do I want to be a home preschool! The lady from the resource center came over the other day and was explaining some things I can do to be a 4 instead of a 3 and it just doesn't sound like something I want to do. I'm supposed to be completing a plan (I can't think of the name right now) on things to work on to get another star, but keep putting it off because I don't think I want to be 4 stars! To me, the way they want things done makes it sound like I should be a center, not a cozy home!
I was going for the stars myself but changed my mind after I realized it would take most of the fun out and replace it with more rules and paperwork, I really do not need that besides it isn't a star that will determine how good I do my job (I love the misspelling on the front page of their magazine )
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kitkat 12:31 PM 10-30-2013
It sounds like you are leaning towards not renewing. I'm in WI also and I've always been legally unlicensed. I have a rider in my homeowners insurance also. Keep in mind that you can still claim food expenses on your taxes if you are legally unlicensed. Good luck with your decision!
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Neekie 12:32 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
It's okay! If you read my posts over the last couple years, you'll find I've ranted the same way.

On top of it all, in this area, NO ONE cares if their provider is licensed. We honestly have about 10 illegal providers in a county of 26,000 people. Not just unregulated, illegal big time. Some have been in business 20+ years. No one gives a hoot. I'm making all this effort and competing against that, too.
Exactly!
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Neekie 12:33 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by LK5kids:
If it was me I would take the three and get out and about! Someone mentioned keeping your license for a future, what if. That is a good idea, but I get you on getting out from under our licensing regs and the expense of staying licensed.

I love the teaching aspect, but mainly for two's and up. If I had all infant/toddlers I would do as you do and just have fun in an inviting, warm, loving environment. I would say forget it to lesson plans for infants....yuck!

I would probably stay licensed for the food program, but would consider having parents bring food if I dropped my license.

What are you thinking as these kids get older? Will you keep them or will they age out?

I thought the alarm was required no matter how many you transport. That's interesting it is not. Good to know.

We have very few or no illegal providers. They were shut down years ago. That at least helped me. I don't know if it makes a difference that the pop. is only 6,500-everybody knows everbody, county seat=human services works out of this town for our county. I heard from a provider in Madison illegal FCC is rampant there. I would be sooooo frustrated if that was the case here, too!

I think taking the three only and getting out is a great idea!

Good luck with this decision!

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Neekie 12:35 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I would be unlicensed in a heartbeat if I could. Not because I am doing anything "wrong" but because I don't like the direction the state of FCC is headed.

My town sounds similar to yours in that parents are looking for kids to be safe and secure. I've mentioned before that multiple stars, accreditations, etc may mean something elsewhere but parents here are not going to pay extra for those things.

I wish...
I agree!
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Heidi 12:37 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by LK5kids:
If it was me I would take the three and get out and about! Someone mentioned keeping your license for a future, what if. That is a good idea, but I get you on getting out from under our licensing regs and the expense of staying licensed.

I love the teaching aspect, but mainly for two's and up. If I had all infant/toddlers I would do as you do and just have fun in an inviting, warm, loving environment. I would say forget it to lesson plans for infants....yuck!

I would probably stay licensed for the food program, but would consider having parents bring food if I dropped my license.

What are you thinking as these kids get older? Will you keep them or will they age out?

I thought the alarm was required no matter how many you transport. That's interesting it is not. Good to know.

We have very few or no illegal providers. They were shut down years ago. That at least helped me. I don't know if it makes a difference that the pop. is only 6,500-everybody knows everbody, county seat=human services works out of this town for our county. I heard from a provider in Madison illegal FCC is rampant there. I would be sooooo frustrated if that was the case here, too!

I think taking the three only and getting out is a great idea!

Good luck with this decision!
too funny: when I lived in Madison, we didn't have any illegal providers that we knew of. It's only since I've moved here that every one and their mother "watches kids". Well, when you have 12 kids under 5, that's pretty much all you CAN do...lol
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Neekie 12:38 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
I was going for the stars myself but changed my mind after I realized it would take most of the fun out and replace it with more rules and paperwork, I really do not need that besides it isn't a star that will determine how good I do my job (I love the misspelling on the front page of their magazine )
Yep, these are my thoughts, too!
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Cradle2crayons 12:41 PM 10-30-2013
I totally agree. Get licensed , dump the fourth (ok that didn't sound nice) kid, and go have fun with the remaining three!!!

That way, if you ever needed that license you'll have it.

At least that's what I would do if it were me in your shoes.

I'm legally unlicensed but state registered and I refuse to get licensed unless they force me to lol.

Now if I could watch more kids, yes I would get licensed. I can watch 5 not counting my own unlicensed and the same amount licensed so I see no benefit to licensing.
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daycarediva 12:42 PM 10-30-2013
Heidi, how many under 2's can you take if you aren't licensed? If you get infants and young toddlers, I would market specifically for them and charge a bit more for such a low ratio. I have a provider friends who does this, and she only takes 2-3 at a time and is in HUGE demand. She is going legally unlicensed on her next renewal, too. (spring I believe).
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Neekie 12:43 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
It's okay! If you read my posts over the last couple years, you'll find I've ranted the same way.

On top of it all, in this area, NO ONE cares if their provider is licensed. We honestly have about 10 illegal providers in a county of 26,000 people. Not just unregulated, illegal big time. Some have been in business 20+ years. No one gives a hoot. I'm making all this effort and competing against that, too.
Oops! Sorry! Just to avoid confusion, I edited my post a little bit after you quoted it.
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Heidi 12:44 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Heidi, how many under 2's can you take if you aren't licensed? If you get infants and young toddlers, I would market specifically for them and charge a bit more for such a low ratio. I have a provider friends who does this, and she only takes 2-3 at a time and is in HUGE demand. She is going legally unlicensed on her next renewal, too. (spring I believe).
Doesn't matter...3 kids under the age of 7, but they can all be newborns (). Otherwise, a license is required.
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LK5kids 12:46 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
too funny: when I lived in Madison, we didn't have any illegal providers that we knew of. It's only since I've moved here that every one and their mother "watches kids". Well, when you have 12 kids under 5, that's pretty much all you CAN do...lol
I was really surprised when I heard that about lots of under the radar FCC homes! The best of everything to you! Hope it all goes wonderfully!!!
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Heidi 12:49 PM 10-30-2013
oh...another reason:

My MIL is my sub. Once she hits 240 hours, she must take have a 3-credit course in early childhood complete or I loose her as a sub.

She's 72 years old, mother of 4, grandmother of 12, and great-grandma of a couple dozen. She is NOT going back to school. So, that means I have to find someone else and "fire" the sub my kids absolutely love. "Grandma S*****". She's at about 150 hours now. I did have her take SIDS and Shaken Baby Training, and was going to pay for infant and toddler CPR when it comes around again. But, a 3 credit course?
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MyAngels 12:54 PM 10-30-2013
Based on what you've written about your state's system I would drop the license (and unfortunately the extra child) in a heartbeat. I'd probably raise my rates by $25 per week (assuming the market will bear it) to compensate somewhat for the loss of income.

Where I am (Illinois) I would keep my license no matter what because it's relatively easy and painless. Things may change once they begin implementing their new star type system, but for now it's easy to be licensed and still run my business the way I want to run it.

Double check with different food program sponsors in your area to be sure that you cannot participate as long as you are legally unlicensed.
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Neekie 12:59 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
oh...another reason:

My MIL is my sub. Once she hits 240 hours, she must take have a 3-credit course in early childhood complete or I loose her as a sub.

She's 72 years old, mother of 4, grandmother of 12, and great-grandma of a couple dozen. She is NOT going back to school. So, that means I have to find someone else and "fire" the sub my kids absolutely love. "Grandma S*****". She's at about 150 hours now. I did have her take SIDS and Shaken Baby Training, and was going to pay for infant and toddler CPR when it comes around again. But, a 3 credit course?
This is another sore spot with me also!
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melilley 01:00 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Maria2013:
I was going for the stars myself but changed my mind after I realized it would take most of the fun out and replace it with more rules and paperwork, I really do not need that besides it isn't a star that will determine how good I do my job (I love the misspelling on the front page of their magazine )
Getting 3 stars is super easy, but anything after that does take the fun out of it! I didn't see the misspelling, I'll have to look....lol
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WImom 01:09 PM 10-30-2013
I would also keep the license but get rid of the 4th. I know when I moved and had to start over it took 7-9 months to get relicensed. I had to start at the beginning. If you end up needing the income you may regret not having that option available to you quickly.

I agree with all you other WI providers. I HATE all the red tape too! I got written up for forgetting to sign myself out at the end of the day one time in the 6 months she went back looking. Lost my 2 year compliant streak over that.
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Neekie 01:21 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by WImom:
I would also keep the license but get rid of the 4th. I know when I moved and had to start over it took 7-9 months to get relicensed. I had to start at the beginning. If you end up needing the income you may regret not having that option available to you quickly.

I agree with all you other WI providers. I HATE all the red tape too! I got written up for forgetting to sign myself out at the end of the day one time in the 6 months she went back looking. Lost my 2 year compliant streak over that.
Getting a write for forgetting to sign yourself out six months ago is just plain ridiculous!!! They have never looked more than three weeks back on mine. Geez!!!

I do get your point about keeping a license just in case we may need it in the future and I think it is a lot harder to to get licensed now than it used be. A lot more red tape. But gee it would be so nice to be able to just get rid of it.
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WImom 01:32 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Neekie:
Getting a write for forgetting to sign yourself out six months ago is just plain ridiculous!!! They have never looked more than three weeks back on mine. Geez!!!

I do get your point about keeping a license just in case we may need it in the future and I think it is a lot harder to to get licensed now than it used be. A lot more red tape. But gee it would be so nice to be able to just get rid of it.
Yeah, I had them all in a binder so she was just skipping around and saw it. I now only keep a few weeks at a time available.
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WImom 01:35 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
oh...another reason:

My MIL is my sub. Once she hits 240 hours, she must take have a 3-credit course in early childhood complete or I loose her as a sub.

She's 72 years old, mother of 4, grandmother of 12, and great-grandma of a couple dozen. She is NOT going back to school. So, that means I have to find someone else and "fire" the sub my kids absolutely love. "Grandma S*****". She's at about 150 hours now. I did have her take SIDS and Shaken Baby Training, and was going to pay for infant and toddler CPR when it comes around again. But, a 3 credit course?
I've wondered how they would really know how many hours my sub works (my DH) since it is so sporadic and they only look back 3 weeks on attendance. I think he is close to 50-60 since it's usually just an hour at the end of the day once a month.
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Heidi 01:44 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by WImom:
I've wondered how they would really know how many hours my sub works (my DH) since it is so sporadic and they only look back 3 weeks on attendance. I think he is close to 50-60 since it's usually just an hour at the end of the day once a month.
well, in theory they could ask you, and you would have to show how you document the number of hours. It's something you are expected to track.

They may usually only look at the last 3 weeks records, but they can ask for the last 3 years. They have nailed a number of providers for not having those records available. Of course, those were folks they considered suspect because they had a lot of Shares kids, and they were trying to weed out fraud. But, your licenser can ask for 3 years, and you'd be required to show it then and there.
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Blackcat31 02:20 PM 10-30-2013
The ONLY trouble I can foresee if you drop your license is I am betting that ALL states will require licensing for ANY provider caring for more than one family's children.

That recommendation came from YOUR state's analysis of child care in your state from the NACCRRA.

Your state ranks 20th. Your state received a 59 out of 150 possible points.

South Dakota is ranked the worst at 52. Receiving a score of 0 out of 150

This study was done in preparation for QRIS. My licensor continues to stress that she believes ALL states will HAVE to participate in QRIS by as early as 2015.
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Heidi 02:35 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The ONLY trouble I can foresee if you drop your license is I am betting that ALL states will require licensing for ANY provider caring for more than one family's children.

That recommendation came from YOUR state's analysis of child care in your state from the NACCRRA.

Your state ranks 20th. Your state received a 59 out of 150 possible points.

South Dakota is ranked the worst at 52. Receiving a score of 0 out of 150

This study was done in preparation for QRIS. My licensor continues to stress that she believes ALL states will HAVE to participate in QRIS by as early as 2015.
Here's the thing about that, though. They can't keep up (or don't want to) with illegal providers now. How on earth will they do it if they create more "underground" providers?

I don't think the whole QRIS thing will last more than a few years. Studies will show that it was a big fat waste of money, and they'll scrap it. Well, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
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Blackcat31 02:42 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Here's the thing about that, though. They can't keep up (or don't want to) with illegal providers now. How on earth will they do it if they create more "underground" providers?
So if they DO require a license, you are banking on the fact that you will be able to get away without having one anyways because they are too busy now?

I am NOT implying that you will....just saying IF you do, you won't be able to claim expenses or anything on your taxes then...kwim? Plus, the guilt would kill me.

Originally Posted by Heidi:
I don't think the whole QRIS thing will last more than a few years. Studies will show that it was a big fat waste of money, and they'll scrap it. Well, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
I disagree. Head Start is an 8 billion dollar failure and they still keep doing that. As long as the "right" people continue padding their wallets, they don't really care about the actual success or failure of any of these programs.

I wholeheartedly believe the only reason they started QRIS in the first place was so they were able to dip their greedy hands in the age groups that were currently not "contributing" already. So if they aren't old enough to be in public school, let's bring school to them....kwim?

I think QRIS is going to be bigger and badder than any of us realize.

It's gonna be a lot like the ACA. Sounds great on paper but sucks in reality.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your plans....just making sure you are really looking at the BIG picture and not just today....kwim?
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Heidi 02:57 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So if they DO require a license, you are banking on the fact that you will be able to get away without having one anyways because they are too busy now?

I am NOT implying that you will....just saying IF you do, you won't be able to claim expenses or anything on your taxes then...kwim? Plus, the guilt would kill me.



I disagree. Head Start is an 8 billion dollar failure and they still keep doing that. As long as the "right" people continue padding their wallets, they don't really care about the actual success or failure of any of these programs.

I wholeheartedly believe the only reason they started QRIS in the first place was so they were able to dip their greedy hands in the age groups that were currently not "contributing" already. So if they aren't old enough to be in public school, let's bring school to them....kwim?

I think QRIS is going to be bigger and badder than any of us realize.

It's gonna be a lot like the ACA. Sounds great on paper but sucks in reality.

I'm not trying to put a damper on your plans....just making sure you are really looking at the BIG picture and not just today....kwim?
You're probably right about the QRIS thing.

As for operating illegally, if things got ridiculous, I would honestly consider it. It would be with great reluctance, and I wouldn't go overboard, but I'd do it if I had to. Since my dh is looking at retirement in the next 10 years, who knows what I'll be doing by then. Maybe I'll just get a nanny job then. By then, I'll look like Mrs. Doubtfire anyway
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Neekie 03:35 PM 10-30-2013
Blackcat, those are some interesting thoughts. I will take this into consideration before I turn in my license. I am just afraid though that the state will eventually force a lot of us underground or out of child care entirely because of all the stuff they are forcing on us and I know it is only going to get worse. I have rheumatoid arthritis and it is getting very hard for me to keep up with everything even with an assistant and it really cuts into my family time. But so far I am hanging in here and hoping I can make it through until my husband retires at least, but I would like to keep going until I am sixty-five if I can..
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Moppetland 03:41 PM 10-30-2013
I was a licensed childcare provider from 2008-2012, left for a year to work as a sub in a preschool until May of this year, and now I'm license-exempt. This is what they call it in IL, which is legal. I'm also listed on the referral list. I can provide care for 3 children. More if it's a family of siblings. I gave up my license because I didn't think I was going to come back to doing this. But here I am. The only thing is, I had to reapply again, and now I don't think I want it. My rep is just waiting on my updated CPR/1st aid which I took two weeks ago, and then he will submit me for my license again. It took 8 months to go through re-licensing.

I too don't feel like tolerating all the DCFS red tape. One thing out of order and you get put on the state's list as out of compliance and have to post it for your parents to see. When I was licensed before, I never was out of compliance, but now there is a rep shortage and I have a new rep for the second time since I've been going through re-licensing. Also, a license-exempt provider is allowed to be on the food program. I get paid an extra 20% of the daily rate paid to me for parents on CCAP because I took credentialing classes that licensed providers aren't allowed to receive, and there are other perks for being license exempt.

So, now, I'm sitting here wondering if I should send off my proof of CPR/1st aid to my rep. I'm thinking hard about it. I'm a good provider, but I just don't feel like being hassled. On top of that, my home insurance company is warning my DH and I about canceling our home insurance if I have a day care. They didn't seem to care before. Somehow they found out that I was doing child care this time.

So, you aren't alone in your dilemma. I guess it depends on each provider's situation. I think that if it came down to being forced to be licensed, I would be a nanny too. I was already approached by really wealthy families who was willing to pay me more a week than I'll get with 6 kids and licensed. But that is going to be a second option if it came down to it.
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WImom 03:47 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
well, in theory they could ask you, and you would have to show how you document the number of hours. It's something you are expected to track.

They may usually only look at the last 3 weeks records, but they can ask for the last 3 years. They have nailed a number of providers for not having those records available. Of course, those were folks they considered suspect because they had a lot of Shares kids, and they were trying to weed out fraud. But, your licenser can ask for 3 years, and you'd be required to show it then and there.
Good to know. I don't have any SHARES kids but am in Youngstar for the Grant and TEACH. Do I have to have it all on one form or just figure out from all my attendance Sheets?
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Heidi 07:20 PM 10-30-2013
Originally Posted by WImom:
Good to know. I don't have any SHARES kids but am in Youngstar for the Grant and TEACH. Do I have to have it all on one form or just figure out from all my attendance Sheets?
It doesn't actually say anywhere. I would just add it up from time to time and note it on your attendance forms. Then, if you are asked, you can prove he's not over the 240.
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Margarete 12:11 AM 10-31-2013
Is there an option in your state to go on leave from being licensed in your state. In California we can do that, and when we are ready to come back we don't have to start all over, and don't have to follow all of the regulations or worry about licensing visits during that time, as long as we are legally unlicensed of course.
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Familycare71 07:49 AM 10-31-2013
I am so there with you!! The only reasons I have not dropped to legal exempt is because I can only watch two children (plus any that I'm related to but I don't have any of those) and children for three hours or less per day. I just don't think I'd make enough.
I also worry I would have trouble finding new daycare kids when needed because of not being liscensed.
And I worry about what BC said- that we will all be required to be registered in the near future! I am in NY - they LOVE to regulate everything!!
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Blackcat31 08:02 AM 10-31-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
I am so there with you!! The only reasons I have not dropped to legal exempt is because I can only watch two children (plus any that I'm related to but I don't have any of those) and children for three hours or less per day. I just don't think I'd make enough.
I also worry I would have trouble finding new daycare kids when needed because of not being liscensed.
And I worry about what BC said- that we will all be required to be registered in the near future! I am in NY - they LOVE to regulate everything!!
Your state scored a 72 out of 150 possible points ranking them at 13th out of 52.

I think it is BECAUSE they regulate everything. The states that are heavy on regulations are the states that scored the highest.

EACH state has the same recommendation that ANY provider caring for more than one family should be licensed.
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Unregistered 08:10 AM 10-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Your state scored a 72 out of 150 possible points ranking them at 13th out of 52.

I think it is BECAUSE they regulate everything. The states that are heavy on regulations are the states that scored the highest.

EACH state has the same recommendation that ANY provider caring for more than one family should be licensed.
Where so you find that information? It would be interesting to look at all the states!
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Familycare71 08:10 AM 10-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Your state scored a 72 out of 150 possible points ranking them at 13th out of 52.

I think it is BECAUSE they regulate everything. The states that are heavy on regulations are the states that scored the highest.

EACH state has the same recommendation that ANY provider caring for more than one family should be licensed.
What is this referring to?? Where are you finding it?
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Blackcat31 08:27 AM 10-31-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Where so you find that information? It would be interesting to look at all the states!
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
What is this referring to?? Where are you finding it?
The did a study about child care in the U.S. During a lot of my QRIS trainings/meetings, this study is mentioned. It appears this is the foundation or guidelines that QRIS is going off of as to what each state needs to improve and/or change.

This link gives you the entire study and results. http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes

If you scroll down toward the bottom of the page, it will show you each state listed. Click on your state's pdf file and you will see the findings for your state. Each state has it's strengths and weaknesses listed, their rank and total score as well as what changes are being recommended for each state.

The goal is for each state to improve the quality of care and for there to be one BASIC set of rules/regulations for all child care nationwide.


The most common complaint we hear providers saying in regards to being licensed or not is not wanting the government in their business and telling them how to run their businesses....which is the polar opposite of what they want to happen.

I've said it a ton of times before, but family in-home child care as we know it today will no longer exist in the near future.
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Heidi 12:04 PM 10-31-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
The did a study about child care in the U.S. During a lot of my QRIS trainings/meetings, this study is mentioned. It appears this is the foundation or guidelines that QRIS is going off of as to what each state needs to improve and/or change.

This link gives you the entire study and results. http://www.naccrra.org/about-child-c...ild-care-homes

If you scroll down toward the bottom of the page, it will show you each state listed. Click on your state's pdf file and you will see the findings for your state. Each state has it's strengths and weaknesses listed, their rank and total score as well as what changes are being recommended for each state.

The goal is for each state to improve the quality of care and for there to be one BASIC set of rules/regulations for all child care nationwide.


The most common complaint we hear providers saying in regards to being licensed or not is not wanting the government in their business and telling them how to run their businesses....which is the polar opposite of what they want to happen.

I've said it a ton of times before, but family in-home child care as we know it today will no longer exist in the near future.
oh, this is soooo enlightening. I now have an idea where the whole push for QRIS came from, and who's benefiting.
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