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Howl 05:08 PM 02-16-2015
Is it possible to own a daycare but have someone else run it (in your home)?
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daycare 05:19 PM 02-16-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
Is it possible to own a daycare but have someone else run it (in your home)?
Yes and no. You have to be there at least 20% of each day.

Also, when its in home you assume a TON of liability that could not only cost you your license it could end you up with criminal charges. You are 100% responsible for everything that happens.
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Annalee 05:35 PM 02-16-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
Is it possible to own a daycare but have someone else run it (in your home)?
How would you make any money if you paid someone else to work your daycare, especially an in-home daycare even if it were possible.
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Howl 08:14 PM 02-16-2015
Where can I find that information?

Originally Posted by daycare:
Yes and no. You have to be there at least 20% of each day.

Also, when its in home you assume a TON of liability that could not only cost you your license it could end you up with criminal charges. You are 100% responsible for everything that happens.

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permanentvacation 08:14 PM 02-16-2015
It would depend on the laws of child care in your state. Here in Maryland, we are limited on the amount of hours we can use a substitute, but we can have a co-provider. The co-provider could work as many days and hours as we want them to.

But like Annalee said, I don't think you would make much money if you paid someone else to work full time every week at a home daycare.

You not only have to pay their weekly pay, but you also have to pay the required taxes on payroll, workman's comp, etc. Plus you have to make sure you have the proper liability insurance to have an employee.

If I had a full load of 8 kids and were paid the going rate in my area for each child, I'd make $1253.20/week. If I paid an employee $10/hour (most daycares are open 12 hours per day) that would be $600/week gross and I'd still make $653.20. But then I'd have to pay for extra insurance, workman's comp, etc. and in the end I wouldn't make enough money to make it worth all the hassles.

I did look into it once. I talked to my specialist, lawyer, and accountant. After learning all that would be required to hire a full time employee, I decided not to bother.

If you do decide to have someone else run your daycare, I'd suggest that you check with the child care laws, a lawyer, and accountant to make sure you are doing everything legally and protecting yourself, your home, and your business.
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Howl 08:15 PM 02-16-2015
Somehow.

Originally Posted by Annalee:
How would you make any money if you paid someone else to work your daycare, especially an in-home daycare even if it were possible.

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Howl 08:18 PM 02-16-2015
That's exactly what I've been doing. I currently provide only overnight and weekend care because I have a day job. I want to expand my business. Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
It would depend on the laws of child care in your state. Here in Maryland, we are limited on the amount of hours we can use a substitute, but we can have a co-provider. The co-provider could work as many days and hours as we want them to.

But like Annalee said, I don't think you would make much money if you paid someone else to work full time every week at a home daycare.

You not only have to pay their weekly pay, but you also have to pay the required taxes on payroll, workman's comp, etc. Plus you have to make sure you have the proper liability insurance to have an employee.

If I had a full load of 8 kids and were paid the going rate in my area for each child, I'd make $1253.20/week. If I paid an employee $10/hour (most daycares are open 12 hours per day) that would be $600/week gross and I'd still make $653.20. But then I'd have to pay for extra insurance, workman's comp, etc. and in the end I wouldn't make enough money to make it worth all the hassles.

I did look into it once. I talked to my specialist, lawyer, and accountant. After learning all that would be required to hire a full time employee, I decided not to bother.

If you do decide to have someone else run your daycare, I'd suggest that you check with the child care laws, a lawyer, and accountant to make sure you are doing everything legally and protecting yourself, your home, and your business.

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permanentvacation 08:21 PM 02-16-2015
You're welcome.
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NeedaVaca 06:26 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by permanentvacation:
It would depend on the laws of child care in your state. Here in Maryland, we are limited on the amount of hours we can use a substitute, but we can have a co-provider. The co-provider could work as many days and hours as we want them to.

But like Annalee said, I don't think you would make much money if you paid someone else to work full time every week at a home daycare.

You not only have to pay their weekly pay, but you also have to pay the required taxes on payroll, workman's comp, etc. Plus you have to make sure you have the proper liability insurance to have an employee.

If I had a full load of 8 kids and were paid the going rate in my area for each child, I'd make $1253.20/week. If I paid an employee $10/hour (most daycares are open 12 hours per day) that would be $600/week gross and I'd still make $653.20. But then I'd have to pay for extra insurance, workman's comp, etc. and in the end I wouldn't make enough money to make it worth all the hassles.

I did look into it once. I talked to my specialist, lawyer, and accountant. After learning all that would be required to hire a full time employee, I decided not to bother.

If you do decide to have someone else run your daycare, I'd suggest that you check with the child care laws, a lawyer, and accountant to make sure you are doing everything legally and protecting yourself, your home, and your business.
Then on top of that you also have to pay for food, cleaning supplies, art supplies, utilities, taxes etc...I can't imagine there would be any money left
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Abigail 06:47 AM 02-17-2015
It is possible to make a profit but you need to work part time. You don't make much profit unless you have enough kids to require two staff as well but even with only seven kids and a part time helper you can make it work. I pay all those insurances as well and am required to be on site sixty percent of the time. Pm me for more information.
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Blackcat31 06:50 AM 02-17-2015
There are a couple providers in my area that run their child cares out of someone else's home and do so successfully.

They must make enough of an income for it to be good or I can't imagine they would continue to do it that way...kwim?

I would contact someone from your state licensing offices and talk with them about the rules and regulations for your area.
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daycare 07:37 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
There are a couple providers in my area that run their child cares out of someone else's home and do so successfully.

They must make enough of an income for it to be good or I can't imagine they would continue to do it that way...kwim?

I would contact someone from your state licensing offices and talk with them about the rules and regulations for your area.
In Ca that would be illegal. You must live in the home that you conduct childcare from.
Not only that even if you could do that with mortgage rates or rent as high as it is here you would never be able to make a profit. Average rent in my area is about $3000 plus for 1200sf and I'm not in the highest housing area
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daycare 07:39 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
Where can I find that information?
Title 22. All of this information was given to you at the orientation and by your rep at the time of licensing.

Not to sound rude, but this is all very general information they give you during the process of getting licensed.
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daycare 07:43 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by daycare:
Title 22. All of this information was given to you at the orientation and by your rep at the time of licensing.

Not to sound rude, but this is all very general information they give you during the process of getting licensed.
Correction to my first repose to yor post. Sorry I am on my phone and was coming back from a road trip. You can only be absent from the daycare 20% of the time and need to be present the additional amount of time.

Also the care you are presently offering I'm not sir is legal, you should really check with LIC.
Better safe than sorry
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daycarediva 10:21 AM 02-17-2015
Not legal in my state anymore. You have to be the owner/operator and it has to be in your home.
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Crystal 10:24 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by daycare:
Yes and no. You have to be there at least 20% of each day.

Also, when its in home you assume a TON of liability that could not only cost you your license it could end you up with criminal charges. You are 100% responsible for everything that happens.
I believe you can only be gone 20% o the time. You have to be there 80% of the time.

ETA: I just saw that you corrected that! Sorry!
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daycare 10:26 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by CoachingForQualityImprovement:
I believe you can only be gone 20% o the time. I did correct myself later. You have to be there 80% of the time.
That's correct. I said if backwards the first time. Lol
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Howl 10:27 AM 02-17-2015
I don't yet own a daycare. I haven't attended a orientation yet as it's not until April! I thought about doing the online version but I have too many questions for that to be efficient. It's why I came here to ask specific questions. I babysit for 8-10 families in two weeks time. Thank you for the information, I found the 20% reference last night.
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Crystal 10:27 AM 02-17-2015
LOL! I edited my post at the same time you posted.
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Crystal 10:28 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
I don't yet own a daycare. I haven't attended a orientation yet as it's not until April! I thought about doing the online version but I have too many questions for that to be efficient. It's why I came here to ask specific questions. I babysit for 8-10 families in two weeks time. Thank you for the information, I found the 20% reference last night.
Make sure that you are only caring for children from one family prior to being licensed. Otherwise it is illegal and you could receive a hefty fine.
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daycare 10:29 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
I don't yet own a daycare. I haven't attended a orientation yet as it's not until April! I thought about doing the online version but I have too many questions for that to be efficient. It's why I came here to ask specific questions. I babysit for 8-10 families in two weeks time. Thank you for the information, I found the 20% reference last night.
FYI. without a license you can not care for more than one families children.
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Howl 10:35 AM 02-17-2015
I'm a babysitter so those regulations don't yet apply to me. Thanks for telling me about the switch I need to make right before I start the process. I appreciate that.
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Crystal 10:38 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
I'm a babysitter so those regulations don't yet apply to me. Thanks for telling me about the switch I need to make right before I start the process. I appreciate that.
Believe it or not, those laws do apply to you. It's in title 22 regs.
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daycare 10:41 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
I'm a babysitter so those regulations don't yet apply to me. Thanks for telling me about the switch I need to make right before I start the process. I appreciate that.
If I were you, I would discontinue offering services until you get your license. You could be shut down and then will not be eligible for a license. the fines and penalties are steep.
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Crystal 10:44 AM 02-17-2015
102358 LICENSE EXEMPTIONS 102358
(a) Licensure is required before family child care is provided except in the following situations relative to
family child care homes as specified in Health and Safety Code Section 1596.792:
HANDBOOK BEGINS HERE
Health and Safety Code Section 1596.792 provides in pertinent part:
(1) Any family day care home providing care for the children of only one family in addition to the
operator's own children
.
(2) Any cooperative arrangement between parents for the care of their children where no payment is
involved and the arrangement meets all of the following conditions:
(A) In a cooperative arrangement, parents shall combine their efforts so that each parent, or
set of parents, rotates as the responsible care giver with respect to all the children in the
cooperative.
(B) Any person caring for children shall be a parent, legal guardian, stepparent, grandparent,
aunt, uncle, or adult sibling of at least one of the children in the cooperative.
(C) There can be no payment of money or receipt of in-kind income in exchange for the
provision of care. This does not prohibit in-kind contributions of snacks, games, toys,
blankets for napping, pillows, and other materials parents deem appropriate for their
children. It is not the intent of this paragraph to prohibit payment for outside activities,
the amount of that may not exceed the actual cost of the activity.
(D) No more than 12 children are receiving care in the same place at the same time.
(3) Any arrangement for the receiving and care of children by a relative.
(4) Any child day care program that operates only one day per week for no more than four hours on
that one day.
HANDBOOK ENDS HERE
NOTE: Authority cited: Section 1596.81, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 1596.792 and
1596.81(b), Health and Safety Code.
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Howl 10:45 AM 02-17-2015
I should've clarified that I babysit for one family at a time. If that makes a difference. Again, thanks for the advice. I have a lot to consider.
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daycare 10:47 AM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
I should've clarified that I babysit for one family at a time. If that makes a difference. Again, thanks for the advice. I have a lot to consider.
but you are still in violation. it does not matter if you are caring for 20 families 1 at a time, you still can't do that.

I am not trying to call you out, I am just trying to help you, but if you are only caring for one family then why are you worried about capacity laws?
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Blackcat31 12:06 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by CoachingForQualityImprovement:
102358 LICENSE EXEMPTIONS 102358
(a) Licensure is required before family child care is provided except in the following situations relative to
family child care homes as specified in Health and Safety Code Section 1596.792:
HANDBOOK BEGINS HERE
Health and Safety Code Section 1596.792 provides in pertinent part:
(1) Any family day care home providing care for the children of only one family in addition to the
operator's own children
.
(2) Any cooperative arrangement between parents for the care of their children where no payment is
involved and the arrangement meets all of the following conditions:
(A) In a cooperative arrangement, parents shall combine their efforts so that each parent, or
set of parents, rotates as the responsible care giver with respect to all the children in the
cooperative.
(B) Any person caring for children shall be a parent, legal guardian, stepparent, grandparent,
aunt, uncle, or adult sibling of at least one of the children in the cooperative.
(C) There can be no payment of money or receipt of in-kind income in exchange for the
provision of care. This does not prohibit in-kind contributions of snacks, games, toys,
blankets for napping, pillows, and other materials parents deem appropriate for their
children. It is not the intent of this paragraph to prohibit payment for outside activities,
the amount of that may not exceed the actual cost of the activity.
(D) No more than 12 children are receiving care in the same place at the same time.
(3) Any arrangement for the receiving and care of children by a relative.
(4) Any child day care program that operates only one day per week for no more than four hours on
that one day.
HANDBOOK ENDS HERE
NOTE: Authority cited: Section 1596.81, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 1596.792 and
1596.81(b), Health and Safety Code.
So if the OP is only caring for one family in addition to her own, she would be license exempt?

That's how I am reading/interpreting the that ^^^

Maybe I am missing something but that is similar to how my state's regs read and we CAN provide care for one family's children without a license. Any more than one family and we have to have a license.
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daycare 12:12 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So if the OP is only caring for one family in addition to her own, she would be license exempt?

That's how I am reading/interpreting the that ^^^

Maybe I am missing something but that is similar to how my state's regs read and we CAN provide care for one family's children without a license. Any more than one family and we have to have a license.
you can not be lic exempt in CA if you are caring for more than one families children.

so if that family has 4 kids then you are clear, but you can not care for any other children outside of that family other than you own without having a LIC.
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daycare 12:13 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So if the OP is only caring for one family in addition to her own, she would be license exempt?

That's how I am reading/interpreting the that ^^^

Maybe I am missing something but that is similar to how my state's regs read and we CAN provide care for one family's children without a license. Any more than one family and we have to have a license.
you can not be lic exempt in CA if you are caring for more than one families children.

so if that family has 4 kids then you are clear, but you can not care for any other children outside of that family other than you own without having a LIC.
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daycarediva 12:15 PM 02-17-2015
I think op means she is caring for one family's children at a time, but has multiple babysitting jobs with different families.

When I was legally exempt, I cared for the legal (2) children at a time which is the legal limit here, only I did shifts 7-3 for nurses and 3:30-5:30 for after school kids. I cared for a total of 4 children though, just never all at once.
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Blackcat31 12:21 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I think op means she is caring for one family's children at a time, but has multiple babysitting jobs with different families.

When I was legally exempt, I cared for the legal (2) children at a time which is the legal limit here, only I did shifts 7-3 for nurses and 3:30-5:30 for after school kids. I cared for a total of 4 children though, just never all at once.
That's how I read it. She I caring for ONE family at a time.

She cares for many different families but only ONE at a time.

The licensing reg posted, does not address that.

Talk about confusing...
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Blackcat31 12:22 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by daycare:
you can not be lic exempt in CA if you are caring for more than one families children.

so if that family has 4 kids then you are clear, but you can not care for any other children outside of that family other than you own without having a LIC.
So every Saturday night babysitter in California is operating illegally?

Say Suzie babysits the Smith kids (4 of them) on Friday and then babysits the Jones kids (7 of them) on Saturday night and then the Miller's kids (2 of them) on Sunday afternoon, she would be an illegal provider???
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Jack Sprat 12:31 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
So every Saturday night babysitter in California is operating illegally?

Say Suzie babysits the Smith kids (4 of them) on Friday and then babysits the Jones kids (7 of them) on Saturday night and then the Miller's kids (2 of them) on Sunday afternoon, she would be an illegal provider???


I think she is in the clear then, as it's one family at a time. Now, if Suzy was watching the Jones and Smith kids together on a Saturday in her home I believe that would be illegal. But, only if they paid Suzy cash.
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Blackcat31 12:40 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
[/b]

I think she is in the clear then, as it's one family at a time. Now, if Suzy was watching the Jones and Smith kids together on a Saturday in her home I believe that would be illegal. But, only if they paid Suzy cash.
Thats what I am thinking...

I think this is what OP is thinking too..

But Daycare is saying she is illegal so Im just trying to make sense of it all...

Thank goodness I don't live in Cali!
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Crystal 12:45 PM 02-17-2015
Caring for more than one families children, either at the same time or on different days, would exclude her from the exemption regulation. I ran in to this when I first applied for my license and was told that ONLY one family, otherwise you are considered to be running a child care home and must be licensed.

Yes, it is confusing. But, OP can make a quick call to her local licensing agency and ask to speak to the worker of the day for clarification of the law.
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daycare 12:47 PM 02-17-2015
as we say in this very sunny state everything is very grey when it comes to LIC. you ask how are things sunny and grey at the same time right????? Yeah that's CA

Again, I would call and talk to LIC.

My understanding is NO you can not do that. you can only care for one family period.

how can you prove to LIC that you are only caring for one family at a time, how can you prove that another family is not dropping off later.

I asked this questions many moons ago and I was told no. One family.

BC...if you did that as a babysitter and it was every once in awhile you would be ok, but if you did it on an on-going basis as a business, then you need to be licensed.
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daycare 12:49 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by CoachingForQualityImprovement:
Caring for more than one families children, either at the same time or on different days, would exclude her from the exemption regulation. I ran in to this when I first applied for my license and was told that ONLY one family, otherwise you are considered to be running a child care home and must be licensed.

Yes, it is confusing. But, OP can make a quick call to her local licensing agency and ask to speak to the worker of the day for clarification of the law.
ditto....I was told the same exact thing...one family period.
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Howl 12:53 PM 02-17-2015
This is all very confusing. There are thousands of people who babysit for multiple families but not at the same time. I've used babysitting sites like care and sittercity and there is no mention of this on any of them.
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Howl 01:02 PM 02-17-2015
Also I must reiterate that I haven't started the process of becoming a family care home. Some of you are telling me the status I need to have sometime before I start the formal process, I get that and I'll switch to one family only at some point but today I'm the babysitter. I appreciate all of the guidance. This thread has surely taken a detour from my initial question but I hope that other people find the conversation and information helpful.
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daycare 01:06 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
Also I must reiterate that I haven't started the process of becoming a family care home. Some of you are telling me the status I need to have sometime before I start the formal process, I get that and I'll switch to one family only at some point but today I'm the babysitter. I appreciate all of the guidance. This thread has surely taken a detour from my initial question but I hope that other people find the conversation and information helpful.
it is because of your other questions you have asked us.

we are trying to help.

to answer your question about care.com, my understanding is that there is no lic involved because you would care for a child outside of your own home. other wise you fall under in-home family childcare provider which there are rules and regulations.

The laws are confusing, even those of us that are licensed will agree with that. It does seem that things are not very clear most of the time which causes us much grief.

I hope that our answers for your questions have helped you so that you can avoid getting into any trouble and be able to successfully open a family childcare.
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Thriftylady 03:00 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by Howl:
Also I must reiterate that I haven't started the process of becoming a family care home. Some of you are telling me the status I need to have sometime before I start the formal process, I get that and I'll switch to one family only at some point but today I'm the babysitter. I appreciate all of the guidance. This thread has surely taken a detour from my initial question but I hope that other people find the conversation and information helpful.
But if you get caught doing it even if you consider yourself only a "babysitter" you likely will not get a license. And as far as the original question you need to call and ask about that as well. It would only take one complaint from a neighbor or parent for you to never be able to get licensed. To me that wouldn't be worth it.
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AuntTami 07:08 PM 02-17-2015
I can see where the confusion comes from. But in black cats scenario, I would say Suzy is a babysitter IF she goes to everyone's houses. Once you start taking children into YOUR home, then I would say you're considered an in-home, even if it's only one family at a time. If it's one family, period.

In my mind the reason "Saturday night sitters" don't need licenses is because they GO to the PARENTS home, not the children in their home.
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mom2many 10:29 PM 02-17-2015
Originally Posted by AuntTami:
I can see where the confusion comes from. But in black cats scenario, I would say Suzy is a babysitter IF she goes to everyone's houses. Once you start taking children into YOUR home, then I would say you're considered an in-home, even if it's only one family at a time. If it's one family, period.

In my mind the reason "Saturday night sitters" don't need licenses is because they GO to the PARENTS home, not the children in their home.
I agree with this!
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daycare 09:30 AM 02-18-2015
Originally Posted by AuntTami:
I can see where the confusion comes from. But in black cats scenario, I would say Suzy is a babysitter IF she goes to everyone's houses. Once you start taking children into YOUR home, then I would say you're considered an in-home, even if it's only one family at a time. If it's one family, period.

In my mind the reason "Saturday night sitters" don't need licenses is because they GO to the PARENTS home, not the children in their home.
Yes I agree, this is exactly what I was saying. if you are watching a child in someone else's home on an ongoing basis, you would be a Nanny. If it's on occasion in their home, then you would be a babysitter.

Once you bring it into your own home, you are now falling under in-home childcare provider, which there are rules and regulations, one of them is obtaining a license.
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