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#1
03-18-2014, 12:08 PM
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Time Out and Nap Issues
I have a 3 yo dcb who will not sit in TO. He immediately tries to jump out of the chair and run off.
He's this child: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69431 Today he stripped naked (I can't find any footed pajamas in our local Wal-Mart bigger than a 12m and dcm said she only has fleece ones and those are "too hot") again today and I immediately put him TO and told said "everyone has to have clothes on here. You can get up when you're ready to put them back on". As soon as his bottom hit the chair he was up and running.. flailing like a mad man. I continued to pick him up and put him back... over and over and over until I finally gave him three options: put your clothes back on, sit in the TO chair, or go lay down in a PNP. He still just screamed, flailed, and tried to relax his body so he could slip out of my grip. I put him in the PNP, but then he climbs out. The stripping thing will be taken care of. DCM will be told that until he stops that crazy business of stripping that he will only be accepted into care if he comes already in a pair of backwards footed pajamas. My big issue is what in the world do you do with a child who will NOT sit in TO? Also, today during nap he kept trying to run away so he didn't have to sleep on his nap mat. Well, here in my DC, if they cannot lay nicely on a nap mat then they have to sleep in a PNP. No options. He screamed, stripped, and climbed out of the PNP repeatedly. How do I get this child to do the following: A) stay in TO when I decide it's necessary for him to be in TO B) either sleep on his nap mat nicely or sleep in a PNP nicely 
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#2
03-18-2014, 12:16 PM
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Can he sit on floor beside you during TO? I do that with one of my new kiddos. He sits his 3 minutes right beside me. He tries to run, I put him back. He gets to sit and watch the others play.
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#3
03-18-2014, 12:27 PM
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I would meet with the parents. If he will not listen to you and cannot be corrected to follow the rules that are in place at daycare then WHAT are you supposed to do? Even above the time out issue is his out of control defiance issue.
 I raised a child like that... I sat next to the time out chair and put the child back every single time. Sometimes, I must have have put him back at least 35 times. Eventually he got it. If she puts me here she will KEEP putting me here until I stay. It took awhile and consistency. There really isn't much time for that in a group setting (nor are you paid enough!!!!). This little one had oppositional defiant disorder and it.was.crazy. Just my 2 cents.
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#4
03-18-2014, 12:27 PM
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As soon as he is told to do/not do something he immediately runs and tries to find somewhere to hide. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells... if I try to redirect or discipline him in any way he just...freaks out.
I've tried having him sit near me but he still just tries to run. It's a huge, huge power thing with him.
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#5
03-18-2014, 12:32 PM
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But this child reminds me of my son to the T. Everything is a power struggle. He gets up and runs around while eating. What do I do? Warn him that his food and drink will be thrown away if he gets up again. He gets up again. To the trash goes the food. I can't let him win... but I have a very strong feeling that his parents do let him. He's the youngest of 4 boys.
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#6
03-18-2014, 12:32 PM
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#7
03-18-2014, 12:35 PM
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He was kicked out of his last daycare because the provider couldn't deal with it anymore. DCM was very honest and up front about all of his issues at the interview so I decided to give it a shot. She's very ready to fix his issues, but I'm starting to see that there may be something more going on than just a basic discipline issue... although I also have the feeling that he's babied at home maybe a little.
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#8
03-18-2014, 12:44 PM
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#9
03-18-2014, 01:50 PM
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Stop using time outs. They honestly are not productive IME and especially not for kids under 4.
What is he doing that warrants the TO? Just wondering...I'm interested in the details of what happens before he "earns" himself a TO. Ok, not what is he doing that warrants the TO but what happened right before he stripped his clothes off? I may have some strategies to get him on track. I HAD this child. Like literally gave birth to him. That's why I am a daycare provider instead of a lawyer, like I wanted to be.  Well...my child didn't strip but he did other things that were similar...
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#10
03-18-2014, 02:02 PM
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I don't do Timeouts.
But I also would refuse to take him if he wasnt brought in backwards jammies with one spare jammie set. His behavior is out of control so even if you get the clothing issue addressed, it sounds like there is a lot more to tackle. The mom says she is ready to work with you but yet won't even bring one set of jammies to daycare? wow. I think you better listen to her actions and not just her words. Doesn't sound like she is willing to do much at all. I would absolutely put that two weeks probation in effect. There is no way I am wrestling with a 3 year. I have taken care of special needs kids before but I dont do physical restraining, major nap issues and the rest of that disruptive behavior.
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#11
03-18-2014, 03:21 PM
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can you try to observe what happens right before he explodes and goes into these fits of anger that causes him to strip down?
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#12
03-18-2014, 05:20 PM
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The stripping can be the result of any number of things. Nap time. Telling him it's time to change his pull up. Time to wash hands. Time to eat. These are ALL things that are unavoidable. He WAS stripping any time I had to redirect him for rough housing or being rough with my toys/furniture, but I have been trying to keep him busy and separated so he doesn't do those things. I moved lunch up 30 minutes to 11:00 and I'm not willing to move it up further to avoid him being hungry. I moved nap up 30 minutes to 11:30 and that's not getting moved up further to avoid him being tired. I'm not battling him when it comes to meal times... if he's not hungry or wants to get up and down up and down that's fine. His food gets thrown out and he goes back to the play room. I even have him in a high chair one and he STILL thinks he can get up after about 10 seconds. That's fine with me... he can get up... but he's not getting the option to finish the meal later when HE decides to grace the group with his presence. I understand what both BC and daycare are saying, but maybe instead of 'skip the footed pajamas and teach him how to deal' it would be more helpful to give me ideas in how to actually execute doing that. A specific plan of action is most definitely what I need. 
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#13
03-18-2014, 05:39 PM
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I get that this must be very frustrating for you and all of the children.
It really sounds like this little guy is starving for attention and is willing to go to extremes to get it. First off great job on keeping him busy. It sounds like he needs that. Do you recall what I wrote last week about being proactive and sitting down to talk to this guy when he is not angry or upset. pull him aside sit down with him and play with clay or such, ask him what makes him so upset that he takes his clothing off. get to know him and make a connection with him. it is obvious that he has no clue on how to cope with his emotions. you can help him come up with some strategies about what he can do BEFORE he hits the strip and explode button. I used to have a kid that would explode and this is what I did. when i saw him getting to that point of a little upset, I got some hand lotion and put it on his hand so that he could rub them together. then I would turn the light off and say softly while rubbing my own hands together, him doing the same, you are calm and safe, you are ok. do it until he calms. this will help him gain control of his emotions so that you can then talk to him. this sounds silly, but it works. i learned this at a behavior management shop 10 years ago. once he is calm talk calmly to him setting the tone and find out how you can help him. encourage him to use his words and validate how he feels. I love doing this with kids that are out of control. try it. let me know how it goes.
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#14
03-18-2014, 05:41 PM
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joey we are going to wash our hands in 2 minutes. lets play cars until then. This will give him time to adjust to the idea. If he throws a tantrum, just move on without him. do not put him in time out do not talk to him do not do anything. get the lotion, put it on his hands and do as I suggest above.
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#15
03-18-2014, 05:44 PM
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TO is the "preferred" method if guidance here and although I have it listed in my discipline plan, I try not to use it if I can help it. For some kids, it works great....for others, it just adds fuel to the fire. Quote:
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#16
03-19-2014, 04:34 AM
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The parents need to understand his behavior is beyond "age appropriate" and is disruptive to the entire program. They "should" (according to new training this year) be given the opportunity to offer specific consequences for his behaviors as well. This is the time for you to also introduce consequences for the parents if they do not follow through on their end.
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them. 
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#17
03-19-2014, 08:37 AM
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I would have to agree that this would also be necessary to get the parents involved. You are the only one that really sees how bad this situation is. We can only give you suggestions.
It may just be that this child needs more special care and help than you can give in a group setting, which is no fault to you at all. As a provider we can only do so much and I know a lot of us go through tons of measures trying to help kids all the time. I hope that you are able to find a way to get through to this child or that you are able to help the parents get the help this child needs. If you can't, again, not your fault. We can't make a child be who parents won't help them become or help a child who's parents aren't willing to help. Hugs to you for dealing with this.
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#18
03-19-2014, 11:17 AM
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#19
03-19-2014, 11:37 AM
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 but that would give you an idea of how to move forward with the little guy. Kids are resilient and very smart, smarter then most give them credit for. He most likely is capable of learning that the rules at your house are different from the rules at his house. Consistency is the key and its going to exhaust you for a few weeks until one day it triggers in his head, that he can't do that at your home. I would insist Mom feed the child before bringing him to you and then meal time would be when meal times are. I wouldn't worry if he ate or not, unless you thought he had issues from eating and then I would want the parent to bring the child to the Dr and a note back to me explaining what is going on with that. He will figure out quick that meal times are for eating. If he got up I would put him in a high chair and buckle him into it. Most likely he is looking for you to set the boundaries and be in control and consistent. I also would keep this kiddo busy during the rest of the day. If things didn't improve I would let the child go- I was once told mark my calendar and if after thirty days I felt the same way about the child it was time for the child to move on- and that is ok. Good luck. I feel your stress. I also like the other ideas and look forward to more. Sometimes one thing doesn't work but something else will and it all depends on the child and you know the child best at this point and what might work and what won't. The stripping thing.......is the child hot? Some kids are hotter then others. You might keep your home warmer then the home he comes from. Is he too big for a onsie? I would just catch him and put the clothes back on him- takes away from his play time and tell him no every time.
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#20
03-19-2014, 12:03 PM
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I talked to dcm yesterday at pick-up. He's required to come in backwards pajamas from now on. At home apparently he jumps out of TO also, but she put his TO chair inside of a superyard and she stands outside of it with her back turned to him (she said so that she's not just sitting there staring at him). I told her that I will consider trying that since I have a superyard also, but that I'll have to think about it.
She said he usually goes straight to nap time when she tells him to, but that there are days that he throws tantrums and refuses to sleep. She said she puts him in bed over and over until he finally stays there. She also said that they've put "the fear of God" in dcb and that he knows that when he misbehaves he'll be disciplined. From talking to dcm I truly believe that they discipline him and that they want this fixed, but I'll never know if they're 100% consistent, kwim? My plan is: -Backwards footed pajamas until I've gained control of the situation and until I see that he doesn't even make attempts at stripping anymore -Buckled in the high chair during meals (I'm curious to hear advice on whether I should let him up and back to the playroom when he's ready to get up... I've been letting him go back to the playroom when he says he's done eating. His food gets thrown out immediately and he doesn't get to eat again until the next meal/snack) -Nap time he will have the option of sleeping on the nap mat or the PNP. Totally his choice, but he WILL lay down. I'd like to say that dcm will need to pick him up if he throws a huge tantrum like he did yesterday... the other kids had a hard time sleeping through it. I'm all for figuring out kids emotional needs, but I feel like this dcb is on a power trip set off from potty training. I told dcm that potty training isn't going to happen here until the behavior is fixed. Changing his pull-up is a fight... let alone trying to actually get him to go on the toilet. She agreed and has stopped potty training at home, too. I try to talk to him while he's calm.. not just about all of the issues but ANYTHING.. and that starts a tantrum. He's on a power trip and he needs to learn FAST that I'm not having it.
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#21
03-19-2014, 02:59 PM
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In my opinion TO is a contest of the wills and the adult never wins. Remove him from the activity, or remove the toy from him. Then go on with the day. I don't know how I could deal with a naked boy in my program. Nannyde will have great advice on this issue. But I'd order the jammies on Amazon overnight delivery if I had to.
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#23
03-19-2014, 04:04 PM
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#24
03-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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#25
03-19-2014, 04:09 PM
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846 or one that zips shut http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg
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#26
03-19-2014, 04:11 PM
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The pull ups don't bother me either... to me they're the same as a diaper but just pull on. ETA: I checked out the second PNP you posted and I might as well lock him a closet lol Last edited by craftymissbeth; 03-19-2014 at 04:13 PM. Reason: To add
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#28
03-19-2014, 04:24 PM
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#29
03-19-2014, 04:46 PM
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This is a good handout...
http://studentsfirstproject.org/wp-c...Strategies.pdf It may not be his diagnosis but it has some good strategies for managing similar behaviors. It mentions the token/reward system for supporting and reinforcing positive behaviors like I mentioned in regards to my own child. I also PM'ed you again too.
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#30
03-19-2014, 05:06 PM
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#31
03-21-2014, 06:33 AM
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Good advice. I hate time out it doesnt work. Have a chat with him. make him a chart that gives him a treat if he stays dressed stays in bed and so forth. Get him on your side. You can do it but it sounds like he has only been threatened not helped. Someone needs to teach him how to behave.
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#32
03-21-2014, 07:18 AM
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 And he isn't being threatened... if going to TO for acting like a fool is considered a threat then then I just give up. IMO all children need consequences and that's what the consequence is in this case. I wish you all could SEE him in action. I don't think many of you truly understand the type of child this is. He NEEDS very tough love and someone that isn't afraid to show him that he's not the boss.... I AM. I'm all for sunshine and roses... figuring out the inner workings of why Johnny behaves like a wild child, but it doesn't apply to my situation YET. He needs a big dose of reality and then we will have the opportunity to get deeper with things. And the tough love is showing signs of working so far. The tantrums are becoming fewer and shorter. He sat nicely in the high chair when he was finished eating. He even went to sleep with minimum fuss. I'm excited to get to know this kid
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