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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>4yr old Bloodsucking Twins
Jack Sprat 12:27 PM 01-31-2014
I provide care one day a week for our second cousins. They are twin boys. It's only for 5.5 hrs and only one day a week. HOWEVER, I feel like I have been sucked dry of every once of patience I have within the first hour. I need some advice on what to do with them and their behaviors.
Today, two toys were broken purposely one in front of me and one while I was changing baby's diaper. One was a large plastic tweezer we use to pick up beads etc. DCB just looked at me and snapped it off, smiled and threw it back in the basket.
The second was a wooden peg stacker thing, he jumped on peg part and broke it off. I was ready to scream/cry/call their grandparents and tell them to pick the little monsters up. I didn't though. I sent each to time out. We then talked about bad choices. One seems to think he is a bad boy. We talk a lot about bad choices, but I feel I make it clear that no child is bad. The other just gets mad and covers his ears.
I know at home there are no rules, structure etc. They go to Head Start 4 mornings a week. I ask them if they make bad choices there and they say yes, but they don't go to time out. They push, hit, shove, and walk on toys and me and don't seem to know that they are doing this. One is worse then the other with aggressive behavior and impulse control. I have tried talking to them about how it makes others feel when they do these things, we have read books on feelings, drew pictures etc. Grandfather thinks one needs meds. I feel that things need to change at home and they need to be separated at school and come separate days here. They do great when separated.
A little background their mother passed away a week after they were born. She didn't know she was pregnant until she was giving birth in her shower. We do not know what if any drugs she was doing during the pregnancy. They have two older brothers. One who lives with them and one who is with his father. They are being raised by their grandparents(our aunt/uncle). I know they are exhausted. Their grandfather suffered two heart attacks three days apart last December. I don't want to term them. I feel that this is one way we can help them out. I did see improvement before Christmas but now we have regressed.
BUT, I feel my quality of care for my other dck's drops when they are here. Not meaning unsafe etc. I just feel that I am not the same as I am the other 4 days. Any advice on this would be so appreciated!
Today, two toys were broken purposely one in front of me and one while I was changing baby's diaper. One was a large plastic tweezer we use to pick up beads etc. DCB just looked at me and snapped it off, smiled and threw it back in the basket.
The second was a wooden peg stacker thing, he jumped on peg part and broke it off. I was ready to scream/cry/call their grandparents and tell them to pick the little monsters up. I didn't though. I sent each to time out. We then talked about bad choices. One seems to think he is a bad boy. We talk a lot about bad choices, but I feel I make it clear that no child is bad. The other just gets mad and covers his ears.
I know at home there are no rules, structure etc. They go to Head Start 4 mornings a week. I ask them if they make bad choices there and they say yes, but they don't go to time out. They push, hit, shove, and walk on toys and me and don't seem to know that they are doing this. One is worse then the other with aggressive behavior and impulse control. I have tried talking to them about how it makes others feel when they do these things, we have read books on feelings, drew pictures etc. Grandfather thinks one needs meds. I feel that things need to change at home and they need to be separated at school and come separate days here. They do great when separated.
A little background their mother passed away a week after they were born. She didn't know she was pregnant until she was giving birth in her shower. We do not know what if any drugs she was doing during the pregnancy. They have two older brothers. One who lives with them and one who is with his father. They are being raised by their grandparents(our aunt/uncle). I know they are exhausted. Their grandfather suffered two heart attacks three days apart last December. I don't want to term them. I feel that this is one way we can help them out. I did see improvement before Christmas but now we have regressed.
BUT, I feel my quality of care for my other dck's drops when they are here. Not meaning unsafe etc. I just feel that I am not the same as I am the other 4 days. Any advice on this would be so appreciated!
Heidi 12:39 PM 01-31-2014
Oh my!
I just feel horrible for everyone involved. The kids, the grandparents, and you.
These children really sound like they need a lot of intervention. Not just meds, but some major behavioral therapy.
I would sit down with GP's and say "hey, I KNOW you are exhausted, and I am willing to help, but we all need to work together for these boys. Is it possible that we ALL have a meeting. HS, you two, and I? Then, we can sit down and make a real plan for them. Maybe there's some resources in the form of a one-on-one that can help while they are at HS and/or at your daycare.
If they are not willing to do that, then I would terminate. I'd tell them that up front, if needed. "We either work together or else..." gently.
I just feel horrible for everyone involved. The kids, the grandparents, and you.
These children really sound like they need a lot of intervention. Not just meds, but some major behavioral therapy.
I would sit down with GP's and say "hey, I KNOW you are exhausted, and I am willing to help, but we all need to work together for these boys. Is it possible that we ALL have a meeting. HS, you two, and I? Then, we can sit down and make a real plan for them. Maybe there's some resources in the form of a one-on-one that can help while they are at HS and/or at your daycare.
If they are not willing to do that, then I would terminate. I'd tell them that up front, if needed. "We either work together or else..." gently.
Tdhmom 12:41 PM 01-31-2014
I am having same issues as you 
5 yr old twins but they are boy and girl, the boy is so unruly and the girl is very sneaky! They make my days LONG!!! Around Thursday they start behaving better (not like all the other kids but better) and then the weekend comes and Monday it's right back to the same old shaningans hugs to you cause I know how you feel!!!!
5 yr old twins but they are boy and girl, the boy is so unruly and the girl is very sneaky! They make my days LONG!!! Around Thursday they start behaving better (not like all the other kids but better) and then the weekend comes and Monday it's right back to the same old shaningans hugs to you cause I know how you feel!!!!
Jack Sprat 12:49 PM 01-31-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Oh my!
I just feel horrible for everyone involved. The kids, the grandparents, and you.
These children really sound like they need a lot of intervention. Not just meds, but some major behavioral therapy.
I would sit down with GP's and say "hey, I KNOW you are exhausted, and I am willing to help, but we all need to work together for these boys. Is it possible that we ALL have a meeting. HS, you two, and I? Then, we can sit down and make a real plan for them. Maybe there's some resources in the form of a one-on-one that can help while they are at HS and/or at your daycare.
If they are not willing to do that, then I would terminate. I'd tell them that up front, if needed. "We either work together or else..." gently.
Great idea!!! I will call her this weekend. I don't want to sound like I don't love them. I do very much and have a massive amount of empathy for them. I feel that their circumstances are allowing them a "pass" as to not have to behave.Oh my!
I just feel horrible for everyone involved. The kids, the grandparents, and you.
These children really sound like they need a lot of intervention. Not just meds, but some major behavioral therapy.
I would sit down with GP's and say "hey, I KNOW you are exhausted, and I am willing to help, but we all need to work together for these boys. Is it possible that we ALL have a meeting. HS, you two, and I? Then, we can sit down and make a real plan for them. Maybe there's some resources in the form of a one-on-one that can help while they are at HS and/or at your daycare.
If they are not willing to do that, then I would terminate. I'd tell them that up front, if needed. "We either work together or else..." gently.
Leigh 01:59 PM 01-31-2014
This is SOOOO easy to SAY, not so easy to do, but you need to take away the opportunity for some of these behaviors. If they're breaking toys, take ALL of the toys away from them for the rest of the day. It may mean sitting at your kitchen table with a book, on the couch, or whatever, but don't let them touch another toy. Hitting? Keep them away from other kids for the rest of the day, etc.
I'd still use time-out immediately after the behavior, but I would use a logical consequence after (break toy=no toy).
I'd still use time-out immediately after the behavior, but I would use a logical consequence after (break toy=no toy).
cheerfuldom 02:23 PM 01-31-2014
I do not believe that you will be able to make any sort of impact taking care of the kids 5 hours a week. You are essentially a form of temporary relief for the aunt and uncle....you are not a parent, or a regular caregiver/teacher. I think you need to stand firm on your behavior policies and if the children cannot adapt (with the support of the aunt and uncle) then they need to find alternative care. You cannot risk your own sanity or the safety of your daycare kids at the sake of these twins. i understand their mom passed a way. I am not trying to minimize the struggle here. What I am saying is that no amount of meetings and pleas are going to be as effective as a blunt "the kids behavior means they are not allowed here during daycare hours". The aunt and uncle are the parents at this point. It is THEIR responsibility to find solutions and resources, not yours. Direct them if you can but don't try and shoulder all this burden by yourself.
Laurel 09:06 AM 02-01-2014
I agree with everyone else but if they can come different days then wouldn't that be a solution for you at least?
Laurel
Laurel
Josiegirl 09:18 AM 02-01-2014
Wow, you have my complete sympathy. And just think what these boys go through too. Another thought, does your area have a mentoring program or something like Big Brother? Sounds like these boys need someone in their lives to bond with, to do out of the ordinary fun things with, someone to have a 1 on 1 relationship with. Sounds like they're in some heavy competition for attention and unfortunately negative is better than none. I'm sure their guardian's lives must be stressful trying to raise 2 energetic challenging boys. I doubt I'd be able to keep them so hats off to you for trying to make it all work.
Another thought, does your area have a mentoring program or something like Big Brother? Sounds like these boys need someone in their lives to bond with, to do out of the ordinary fun things with, someone to have a 1 on 1 relationship with. Sounds like they're in some heavy competition for attention and unfortunately negative is better than none. I'm sure their guardian's lives must be stressful trying to raise 2 energetic challenging boys. I doubt I'd be able to keep them so hats off to you for trying to make it all work.
Jack Sprat 08:45 PM 02-01-2014
Originally Posted by Laurel:
I agree with everyone else but if they can come different days then wouldn't that be a solution for you at least?
Laurel
We are going to ask if they would like to do this. I think their thinking in having them both come on the same day is it gives their grandfather a break. But, we are still going to ask..I agree with everyone else but if they can come different days then wouldn't that be a solution for you at least?
Laurel
Jack Sprat 08:45 PM 02-01-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I do not believe that you will be able to make any sort of impact taking care of the kids 5 hours a week. You are essentially a form of temporary relief for the aunt and uncle....you are not a parent, or a regular caregiver/teacher. I think you need to stand firm on your behavior policies and if the children cannot adapt (with the support of the aunt and uncle) then they need to find alternative care. You cannot risk your own sanity or the safety of your daycare kids at the sake of these twins. i understand their mom passed a way. I am not trying to minimize the struggle here. What I am saying is that no amount of meetings and pleas are going to be as effective as a blunt "the kids behavior means they are not allowed here during daycare hours". The aunt and uncle are the parents at this point. It is THEIR responsibility to find solutions and resources, not yours. Direct them if you can but don't try and shoulder all this burden by yourself.
DH "Bam! She nailed it!"I do not believe that you will be able to make any sort of impact taking care of the kids 5 hours a week. You are essentially a form of temporary relief for the aunt and uncle....you are not a parent, or a regular caregiver/teacher. I think you need to stand firm on your behavior policies and if the children cannot adapt (with the support of the aunt and uncle) then they need to find alternative care. You cannot risk your own sanity or the safety of your daycare kids at the sake of these twins. i understand their mom passed a way. I am not trying to minimize the struggle here. What I am saying is that no amount of meetings and pleas are going to be as effective as a blunt "the kids behavior means they are not allowed here during daycare hours". The aunt and uncle are the parents at this point. It is THEIR responsibility to find solutions and resources, not yours. Direct them if you can but don't try and shoulder all this burden by yourself.
Jack Sprat 08:49 PM 02-01-2014
Sorry for so many posts..keep thinking of things. I did make one my "special" friend Friday. He had to be by my side for 45 min. He missed out on their Friday "treat" of watching Thomas, missed out on our craft and was not allowed to touch the books after lunch as he was rolling up the soft cover books. 
I am going to do this more until we make a move to one at a time or completely not coming.
and was not allowed to touch the books after lunch as he was rolling up the soft cover books. I am going to do this more until we make a move to one at a time or completely not coming.
Laurel 04:43 AM 02-02-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
We are going to ask if they would like to do this. I think their thinking in having them both come on the same day is it gives their grandfather a break. But, we are still going to ask..
You might gently put it to them like "It is either that or I can't take them at all as it just isn't working out."We are going to ask if they would like to do this. I think their thinking in having them both come on the same day is it gives their grandfather a break. But, we are still going to ask..
Laurel
Heidi 06:16 AM 02-02-2014
Originally Posted by Jack Sprat:
We are going to ask if they would like to do this. I think their thinking in having them both come on the same day is it gives their grandfather a break. But, we are still going to ask..
But, what Grandpa may not realize is that having ONE of them at a time may improve their behavior significantly. They need one-on-one attention, and bonding with him, each on their own terms, may actually pay off.We are going to ask if they would like to do this. I think their thinking in having them both come on the same day is it gives their grandfather a break. But, we are still going to ask..
On that note, you making them your one-on-one friend may backfire if you're using it as a consequence for negative behavior. I would dial it back as a consequence, and instead use it as a positive. Ask them to be your helper (BEFORE they are naughty). Play up what awesome helpers they are, how they are so capable, etc. LOTs of positive attention. I would probably make being your little helper/buddy the default, and getting to play independently the exception. Wait until they ASK to go play with xx. Then, you can say "well, you've been such a good helper to me, I hate to loose you. But, sure, if you think you can handle playing gently, of course you can".
I had twins her (and 2 older sibs) that I ended up terming. They are 3 1/2 now and I still hear stories, unfortunately. I really think I could have made a huge impact if I'd been able to get the older 2 out of here, and perhaps had some way to break up the twins at least part of the time.
I've also noticed that some kids really do better if you almost treat them like little adults. It's not my favorite...I love seeing them really play independently. But, some kids just thrive when they are given "work" to do. It's like if they can't use their powers for good, they WILL use them for evil!
Blackcat31 07:11 AM 02-02-2014
Seems to me that everyone in these boys' life is simply "surviving" the day with them but no one is actually trying to help them change.
They need counseling (individual AND family)
They need to have some rules/consistency
They need consequences
Their bad behavior is "screaming" out for others to help them. They need guidance, support and some really good behavior modification plans.
However, NONE of this is YOUR issue. It belongs to Grandpa. He took on the role of parenting and simply riding the coat tails of sympathy from everyone over the situation is not helping the boys or him.
The boys' parents (your aunt/uncle) need to step up and find some serious intervention for these boys. If they are in Head Start, that is a fantastic resource for them.
YOU shouldn't have to just deal with them so that grandpa can get a break.
If I were you, I'd lay it all out there. Expected behaviors (for both boys) and consequences (sending home or terming if necessary).
I don't think I would go so far as to have a sit down conference with everyone but I would absolutely be willing to help support whatever plan of action they (parents) put in place to help guide these two little guys toward more positive behaviors.
They need counseling (individual AND family)
They need to have some rules/consistency
They need consequences
Their bad behavior is "screaming" out for others to help them. They need guidance, support and some really good behavior modification plans.
However, NONE of this is YOUR issue. It belongs to Grandpa. He took on the role of parenting and simply riding the coat tails of sympathy from everyone over the situation is not helping the boys or him.
The boys' parents (your aunt/uncle) need to step up and find some serious intervention for these boys. If they are in Head Start, that is a fantastic resource for them.
YOU shouldn't have to just deal with them so that grandpa can get a break.
If I were you, I'd lay it all out there. Expected behaviors (for both boys) and consequences (sending home or terming if necessary).
I don't think I would go so far as to have a sit down conference with everyone but I would absolutely be willing to help support whatever plan of action they (parents) put in place to help guide these two little guys toward more positive behaviors.