Regarding another post where Nan and I were talking about her having other employment while doing childcare started making me wonder: how many of you do some sort of other job while doing childcare? I know alot of people have jobs like tupperware, scentsy, pampered chef.

I know Nan said the state (I hope I am quoting her right) can't have regulations on when she does her other jobs. If I don't have this right please correct me on this Nan. Our regulations say: The provider shall have no other employment, either in or out of the home, during the hours children are in care.

Do any one else have regulations like this?

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I've never seen a regulation concerning this in my state.

I'm curious to know though from providers that do work a job during daycare hours that takes them away from direct care/supervision of the children:

Do you explain to parents during the interview process or at sometime later that you DO work another job/s during daycare hours and that your other job takes you away from direct care of the children? Do you outline for them how many hours day/week their child will be in care of an assistant?

Do you have your assistant/substitute at the interview to meet the parents so that they can meet the person that will be caring for their children when you're not?

I guess that since I've been doing this solo for 25+ years now, I have a very difficult time believing that prospective parents that are looking for "home" daycare for their child, would be okay with the fact that the provider that they trust with their child would leave the child in care with an assistant on a regular basis.

I'm just curious

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I feel like I am on the set of MEAN GIRLS 3.

Guess I did not miss much this weekend.

Carry on......

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I'm a single Mom so I work full time with daycare which leaves me no time for another job. Now I do make some crafts here and there and sell them. Usually around the holidays. Even with them I don't have much time. I use to crochet when the kids went to sleep for nap time. I could get a whole hat or scarf done or get very far with a sweater. I can't even do that anymore because a monitor came and saw my yarn on the sofa during nap time 1 day and informed me I am not to be knitting while children are in my care. It doesn't matter if they are napping what if 1 wakes up. Sooo to answer the question, No I do not but I sure would like to do something other than watch them drool. Other than the monitor saying that I have not seen any regulations.

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I teach piano lessons one evening a week, and on Saturday mornings. This doesn't overlap with my daycare in the least and brings in an extra $600/month. Woohoo.

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The head of our family child care association does several jobs including web design, acting as the head of the association, and consulting during daycare hours.

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Notice the date - - i.e. the time of the month.

In response to the original question - my state says this:

The caregivers may not work or be employed outside the home during the hours that child care is being provided. Outside employment during hours that child care is not being provided shall not interfere with child care.

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So can that be interpretted as "caregivers can work INSIDE the home during child care hours"? It seems specific to being outside the home...does this mean you just can't leave the kids at naptime to work a shift at the pub? LOL.

I used to work for my FIL doing some consulting work during my n aptime. It was about 45 minutes/day worth of work that I did from my computer. I would clean, prep snack, drink coffee and then do my consulting work while the babies nap. If I couldn't get it done then, then I would wait until evening. It was a great side job while it lasted.

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I don't think there is anything that prevents additional employment. I sell Avon. Orders have to be submitted Tuesdays before lunch so I am doing it while "on the clock" and I'm always taking phone orders.

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Oh you got that right! Nothing but ladies dissing on Nan and polishing their own halos all weekend.....

...was kinda sad. I have always enjoyed the fact that we are so different and yet so alike. I am happy to know that not every single day care is the same. Parents would really be up a creek if we all did exactly the same thing.

As for employment.....depends on the state and depends on the provider and depends on what the extra job is. Nothing is cookie cutter right or wrong.

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I'm curious to know though from providers that do work a job during daycare hours that takes them away from direct care/supervision of the children: I can't answer that because nothing takes me away from the direct care and supervision of the children.

Do you explain to parents during the interview process or at sometime later that you DO work another job/s during daycare hours and Yes I tell parents of any other endeavor I'm persuing. Depending on when they started care it would be something different. I've been at this a long time and have had a number of other businesses.

that your other job takes you away from direct care of the children? I wouldn't have a job that took me away from the direct care of the children. Any direct care that I'm not doing that is done by my staff assistant is still completely supervised by me. The parents know I don't hire someone to sit and watch me take care of the kids. It would be silly to have a staff assistant who only watched me work.

Do you outline for them how many hours day/week their child will be in care of an assistant? My kids are never "in" care of an assistant. She's not allowed to be alone with the children. She will be in a few weeks when I expand my registration but until then ... no. They do know the hours she is here exactly and what hours I am here by myself. They like having two people onsite so they would love it if I increased her hours I'm sure. Maybe sometime in the future.

Do you have your assistant/substitute at the interview to meet the parents so that they can meet the person that will be caring for their children when you're not? My staff assistant meets the parents three times during the interview process. They know that she is not left alone with the children.

would be okay with the fact that the provider that they trust with their child would leave the child in care with an assistant on a regular basis. Yes I don't think you could build a business on that here. If you have an assistant here you have to supervise them at all times and not leave the children with them.

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Your monitor was just being petty. There is nothing wrong with crocheting while the kids are asleep! Nobody can expect a provider to just stare at sleeping kids for 2 hours. If it's not in writing in your state regs....then it doesn't matter what the monitor says. I say you go right back to crocheting. Most of us use nap time to catch up on paperwork, clean the kitchen etc. I know a lot of providers and I know not one of them just sits and stares at the kids.

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Outside employment during hours that child care is not being provided shall not interfere with child care.[/quote]




That sentence doesn't even make sense! I would ask your state what on earth that means!

If your employment is OUTSIDE day care hours how CAN it interfere with child care?!

The only thing I can think of is if you tell parents that you are closing earlier as you have another job to go to. But that is not against any reg and is 100% your choice. You can open and close any time you wish.

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ITA!!! I crochet almost every day at nap time after I get my "stuff" done. Ya know, food prep, paperwork, checking up on threads at daycare.com....

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We were told at the licensing meeting that a second job was not allowed as you had to have time for sleeping. Lack of sleep would interfere with child care.

I see no reason why you can't knit/crochet/craft/work online while the children are sleeping. You can only wash so many dishes and dust so many shelves.

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OMG!! SERIOUSLY?!!? Wow, does your licensor come tuck providers into bed too so they are sure they are getting a good nights sleep? Wow! That is crazy! I'm not being rude to you, I am just floored that your licensors have that much power over child care providers in your area...wow!

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The monitor was NOT being petty.

I LOVE to knit and one year was making a scarf for each child in my care, 24 total. I had to start in July and I had to knit every free minute I had.

One day I was knitting in the baby room while a stuffy baby was sleeping for her AM nap (I wanted to be close as she was soo stuffed up) I knitted in a rocking chair in the corner. Later that morning I decided to send the stuffy baby home. For afternoon nap I put two on yearolds in their beds closed teh door and was not able to knit that afternoon bc it was state paper work day (state ast payments used to be due @ the end of the month and it was a TON of paper work for 6 kids!!! Thankfully they do it all online two weeks at a time now).

Half way through nap time I got up to check on the baby room like always and I saw my 13mo boy tangled from head to toe and around his neck. He had climed out of his bed (I never heard a thing!!!) I had to cut him out of all of it. I was VERY lucky that it was not tight enough to hurt him (but was around his neck) and that I checked on him or it could have become that way.

I forgot to but it up like I did EVERYDAY before that. Accidents happen. We get busy and forget. It can happen even if you think you would NEVER forget.

I know we can stop eerything that is dangerous, but these are not my children so I CAN NOT take any "well thats just life" chances with them.

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What was he tangled in?

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yarn!!!!!!!!!!1

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You are right...accidents DO happen. And we do everything in our power to make sure they don't. However....we are not expected to just stare at the kids all nap time because something MIGHT happen. Our regs say we must check on the kids every 15 minutes, but we do not have to even be in the same room. Now if somebody WANTS to watch the entire time...then kudos to them. But it's not REQUIRED. The monitor was out of line telling her she couldn't crochet. She would have been perfectly within her bounds to remind the provider to check on the kids throughout nap time. But I doubt anywhere
in the regs does it say no crocheting.

In your case. you forgot to put the yarn away. But a provider may forget to put a pen up and a child may hurt themselves with it later in the afternoon. A provider may forget to put her book away and a baby may eat a page and choke. A provider may leave her phone where a child can get it and they eat the battery. There are a million scenarios. But we can't bubble wrap the kids (that WOULD be against regs!) and we can't never turn away for even one second. We must childproof best we can and be vigilant and attentive. But crocheting is not against regs.

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I would check your state regs. That's just ridiculous. I knit while the kids are awake, even. I knit outside while they're playing. I woud turn that "What if?" back on the monitor--"Yeah...and what if one wakes up?" 'cause the way I see it...you're sitting right there. Knitting isn't exactly noisy...

Oh wait. I bet it's because the tools used for knitting are called "needles". Yep, they're too dangerous. You might poke a dck's eye out.

[/sarcasm]

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It just means that if you have another job other than daycare it can't interfere with daycare during daycare hours. For example, if you sell tupperware, Mary Kay etc. it can't interfere during daycare hours. You can't fill orders during the day or make deliveries etc.

I'm in CA and we have this rule. There are ways around it though. For example if you have an assistant that can watch the kids while you work on your other job you can argue that the children are under direct supervision. I do other things besides daycare too. I sell tupperware, Mary Kay, do photography and sell occasionally sell things on eBay for people for a percentage. None of these really interfere with daycare however and I work on them after hours and on weekends so I find it hard to believe that licensing is so strict in some areas as to prohibit providers from having another job. Especially because of "lack of sleep". When I first started DC I had a retail job with Lowe's. I worked DC from 6am-6pm and then Lowe's 6:30pm-11pm 3-4 days a week and full shifts on Saturdays and/or Sundays. It was fine for me and not a big deal. As soon as I had 2 DC kids I quit the retail gig. Sometimes I think licensing goes a little overboard.

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I knew a provider who was doing nails out of her home during daycare hours! It is for those ding-a-lings that they come up with those rules!

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Here in California the regulations say that you can not have a job during the hours you are licensed. Not sure how that would work if you had an open ended time on your licensed apparently under hours one is licensed you can put less than 24 hours.

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I work outside of daycare hours. Weekends and evenings as a home health nurse. It honestly doesnt affect the kids or parents some dont even know that I do it. Not that I hide it but they really dont ask about my life outside of 5a-5p

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You make a valid point.

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I guess I would be considered one of the "mean girls" (from the sprinkler thread) that you're referring to. I certainly don't have a "halo," but anyone who knows me would say I'm the polar opposite of a "mean girl." I was simply stating my disike of Nan's "Don't want to," "BTDT," and "over it" attitude. I also didn't care for her sarcastic remark regarding working parents. I adore my DP's and sympathize with how hard they work - both inside and outside of the home. I am very grateful to each and every one of them, as I wouldn't have a thriving business if it weren't for them choosing my daycare facility.

Lastly. I realize Nan is highly respected on this forum and I fully expect her to earn my respect as well. Until then, I felt the need to speak (or write) my mind as this is what this forum is for. Having a differing opinion or point of view does not make me (or anyone else) a "mean girl" IMHO.

As far as working a different job during child care hours - that is strictly prohibited in my state.

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Wow! So are they going to do surprise visits late in the evening to make sure providers aren't up late "having fun" with their spouses?!!! No late nights for you ladies!!!!

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All of this could happen, the point is not taking any EXTRA chances that I dont have to. Just as I cut a string or a cord off of a toy bc it is could strangle a child I choose not to have yarn in daycare areas. I, just as eveyone else, do the best I can with the items I can't avoid...pens and books. I just don't take the extra chance with yarn that serves no daycare purpouse.

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I actually wasn't referring to one person. And I made the halo comment...someone else made the mean girls comment.

The general feel of that thread got very spiteful with a "only my way is right" attitude and VERY sarcastically and self-righteously questioning Nan on her every opinion. Do I agree with every single one of Nan's comments. Of course not...I'm not Nan. But I don't like seeing people torn down because of how they run THEIR OWN business. I don't want people to do it to me either and I am sure you don't.

I feel that we are ALL doing a great job filling a need for parents. What one parents thinks is a wonderful day care, may be one that other parents would pull their kids out of in a flash. THAT is what is good. Parents don't want cookie cutter providers.

I know that some providers probably think I am horrible for making the kids do chores. I happen to think it's VERY important for a well rounded child. But that's my opinion. I leave it up to the parents to decide. My current ones LOVE it.

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Cheeky,

I don't expect you to understand or have respect for what I do. Our businesses are nothing alike.

You posted that you have had five staff assistants last year. I have had five in the last fifteen years. I don't expect you to understand or speak the same language when it comes to staff assistants, the costs, or duties.

If I had five staff assistants last year my parents would leave. I couldn't keep them but you can. That's a completely different parent.

IIRC..y ou have four years of doing day care. I'm about to begin my 18th year. I have nearly 32 in child care. I don't expect you to understand or respect my opinions. I wouldn't have understood in my fourth year what I get now in my 18th year. It takes TIME to evolve in this business.

You don't have paid days off. I have 18 per year. Getting THAT daycare parent... the one who will pay 3.5 weeks per year off is a completely different deal than having ones that don't pay any paid time off. My parents are going to be a completely different client for THAT reason alone.

Our businesses are NOT comparable. We wouldn't attract the same clients. We offer services that don't resemble each other in any way. I can't earn your respect. It's impossible. We are just too different.

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Our regs say we can't run another business secondary to the daycare if it takes away from the care of the children. I'm not sure the specific wording but that is the jist of it.

I do Norwex and Usborne Books at Home. I do my ordering at nap time or int he evenings, and obviously do parties at night. No interference with the daycare or children and therefore, good to go! lol

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I am NICU RN and work some weekends and some Thursday evenings. I will only be doing daycare Monday thru Thursday. On the occasional Thursdays that I work, my husband subs from 2:30-4pm. I discuss this with parents during the interview and they always know ahead of time when this will be happening. I've never had anyone have a problem with this. They don't always meet my husband during the interview but before he takes care of their child.

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I sell stuff on ebay (Ikea stuff at that, since not all states have one Ikea stuff is a trendy thing to buy Ive found out) so when naps roll around I either package stuff that needs to ship or upload my listing. For the most part when the kids are up and rolling I dont even have time to pee. So ignoring the kids isnt an option.

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This makes me irritated! I personally believe that licensing has no right to tell you what you can do with your off time!

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I score standardized exams on a seasonal basis (spring & sometimes the fall) through Pearson Education. I can work any hours I want but during daycare hours I limit my work hours to evenings & weekends.

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From Nannyde:

Cheeky,

I don't expect you to understand or have respect for what I do. Our businesses are nothing alike.

I respect what ALL of us do. Child care is (IMO) one of the most important jobs on the planet.

You posted that you have had five staff assistants last year. I have had five in the last fifteen years. I don't expect you to understand or speak the same language when it comes to staff assistants, the costs, or duties.

My assistants are mainly college students working toward their teaching certificates. They are not available full time, so I rotate the five throughout the week. Since I care for 16 children, three work with our infants and two with our preschoolers.

If I had five staff assistants last year my parents would leave. I couldn't keep them but you can. That's a completely different parent.

My parents LOVE my assistants. They buy them gifts, friend them on Facebook, invite them to birthday parties, etc. We are a very tight knit group. Two have been here from day one, two for a long while (can't remember the exact date), and one is new. They are all AMAZING!!!

IIRC..y ou have four years of doing day care. I'm about to begin my 18th year. I have nearly 32 in child care. I don't expect you to understand or respect my opinions. I wouldn't have understood in my fourth year what I get now in my 18th year. It takes TIME to evolve in this business.

I have been in the child care/education field for 30+ years. I have worked in a preschool, a private school, and ran my own child care business in California. I
moved to Oregon and have been open 4 years (so far).

You don't have paid days off. I have 18 per year. Getting THAT daycare parent... the one who will pay 3.5 weeks per year off is a completely different deal than having ones that don't pay any paid time off. My parents are going to be a completely different client for THAT reason alone.

I get 11 paid days per year. Federal holidays, plus Christmas Eve. In all of the years I've been doing child care, I have never asked my parents to pay for my vacation time nor would I want them to.

As I mentioned earlier, I adore my parents. When we were redoing our play area, my parents donated over $1,000.00 for new play equipment. I think that says a lot about the quality of my parents.

Our businesses are NOT comparable. We wouldn't attract the same clients. We offer services that don't resemble each other in any way.

I know very little about your business and you know very little about mine. I believe all you know about mine is that that I offer water play.

I can't earn your respect. It's impossible. We are just too different.

It is not impossible to earn my respect. Even if I don't agree with someone on a certain issue, I can almost always find something good about them.

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I agree with most everything you said...

I am rethinking the "chores" issue. We make the children pick up toys and bring their tray to the sink, but my assistants do the majority of cleaning. I think it would be good for them to have a daily chore (sweeping, wiping down the lunch tables, cleaning the chalk board, etc.). I think I will implement a chore list next week.

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Please PM me your ebay name, so I can look you up!

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Thanks Meek, I thought so too. In all honesty I do the dishes and run for a restroom break as well as paperwork and sweep and log in here too. I have only sat and stared at a sleeping child once and that was when his mother claimed he was lactose intolerant for 4 months then said to give him milk. Long story it's here somewhere. Turned out to be a crock of crap to get me to supply pediasure. Once the Food Prog manager stepped in and demanded the PROPER paperwork he was suddenly cured. Anyway the Food Prog manager said I should watch the clid closly and I too was afraid so I waited watching him sleep for over an hour incase he had a reaction or stopped breathing. I may pick my crochet hook back up soon.

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Just for the record I always crochet in the same room with the kids. All of my DCKs sleep in the living room on little beds. I crochet on the sofa and USUALLY zip the crochet in a plastic ziplock bag that bed sheets came in and drop it in the corner stand between the couches when the kids wake. They can't reach down there unless they climb over the couch.

I can see how the accident happened tho.

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My mistake.

I haven't ran into anyone who stated their experience based on current location as opposed to actual time.

I haven't met a 30 year vet who would ask a question about how to manage nap for a two year old.

I haven't ran into anyone who was experienced with staff assistants (two that have been there for four years) ask about independent contractor status with 10 K in salary with five employees in one year.

What does been in the "child care/education field" mean? I see that phrase used a lot and never know what it actually means.

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Wow.. this is just plain mean. You seem to be held up on a pedestal on this forum. And I have a hard time understanding why. You think you are better than everyone.. Your not. Try being nicer and realized that there are other ways of doing things. I don't care how long you have been doing child care or how long you've been a nurse. You have a horrible attitude and I would never leave my child with you. You probably try to tell your daycare parents how to raise there children too... Maybe you should spend more time with the children and less time on here.

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Nan, Would you like me to go through all of your old posts and question you on everything you've written in the past? I will be the bigger person and just respond to your post...

1. Past experience: I babysat as a tween/teen in the 70's. I worked at a preschool and as a nanny in the 80's. I ran a home-based child care business in the 90's. I worked at a private school from 2000 to 2006. I moved to Oregon and opened up a child care business which I've run for the past four years.

2. Nappers: I have never had problems with nappers until recently. I thought I knew every trick in the book, but I was wrong. That is why I asked for input. Even "vets" need suggestions/tips at times.

3. Payroll: I've never had assistants until I opened my child care business in Oregon. Thankfully, I now have a great accountant and bookkeeper that have helped me get on track.

4. Child care/education field: For me, it means that I've worked in both education (elementary school and preschool) and child care (nanny and daycare).

Anything else?

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Yes. I've wondered ever since I started reading this forum just why everyone seems so impressed w/ Nannyde. Experienced, yes, but I find it very off-putting the way almost every post of hers is all about "I do this, you should too. I am right, always." Perhaps it's just the style of how she writes, but I get such a feeling that she acts so superior to everyone else. And many on here treat her that way too. Perhaps she does have great things to say to be helpful, but the commander style of saying it just makes me cringe, makes it difficult for me to hear the helpfulness. There are nicer ways to get points across, without sounding so bossy. In my state, the regs do not allow us to do anything "social" that would interfere w/ supervising the children, let alone having other employment, and certainly not as many other endeavors as Nannyde has.

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Nan in no way needs anyone to defend her. Her checking account says that her parents love her style and think she rocks. I don't get a superior vibe from her. Her posts always sound to me like she is saying "I do x, take it, leave it, or make it your own". No two people are alike, no two people do a job exactly the same way or for the same reasons. I like Nans posts. She gives the complete picture so I can choose what parts might make me happier. Obviously she does her job, her assistant does hers, and you do yours. Live and let live!

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I'm the first one on here to say "do as you please" and get paid for it. If I'm asked questions I'm going to say how I do it. Problem is anytime you start talking money and time people start accusing you of robbing the poor kids of their childhood.

It gets old.

I'm able to have "endeavors" because I have earned it. I am able to do ten things at once. I'm able to handle anything that happens before it even becomes a flicker of a problem. I help raise AMAZING kids who have fabulous, smart, and present parents. I take care of my staff assistant and raise her right alongside the kids. I can participate on this board with a little time typing and a lot of time thinking when something comes up. I can do my other jobs at the same time I do this job. It's all the same to me. I've lived, breathed, and studied child care my entire adult life.

No matter what I do... the most important thing to me is to bring along all the people in my life to do the best they can with the children they have. That's what I try to teach and do in my every day. If my methods don't sit well with you then deny them and go your own way. It's the "idea" of them that I want to offer not the insistance that they are right and for you. You know the difference so take what is best and toss the rest.

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And the parents did NOT know I would be alone with the kids, meet me, or anything else.

I think one of the great things about home daycare is that kids get to be in a real environment - where things go on besides nursery rhymes. I would not engage in another career....but all sorts of crafty homemakers stuff is profitable.

I can't respond to all of this in one post except to say - I would not put my child in a daycare run the way our local blogger describes hers.

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Nan,

What do you mean that you raise your staff assistant right along with your kids?? Is this a grown woman you are talking about? I think as an adult I would be offended if I knew my boss was telling people that I was being raised along with her daycare children. It makes her sound very incompetent.

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can I just say my 2 cents?...if its worth anything....

first, i love this forum. ive learned alot from everyone.

but when someone says something i dont like or agree with?

do you see that little red box with the X in it at the top roght hand corner of your screen?

i click it.

i'm too busy providing water play AND having the kids clip coupons to worry about what anyone else is doing during their day.

just saying...

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My state allows staff assistants to start at age fourteen.

I only hire staff assistants without experience and without any child care education. I want incompetent when I hire. I like a clean slate to work with.

My longest staff assistant started working for me at 13 cleaning and helping me make frozen cookie dough. (I sold cookie dough for extra money in those days). At fourteen she started as my staff assistant and worked until she was 18. At eighteen I helped her get a Nanny job with the oldest daughter of the first family I was a Nanny for. She worked as a Nanny for a few years and then came back to work for me two weeks after her first child was born. She stayed for another 2.5 years.

Her sister (age 14 and up) who is one year younger was her substitute and when she left to be a Nanny her sister came and worked for me for a few years. She had her first baby too and brought her here.

My current SA came to me as an older teen but without any experience as a child care provider. She's been "brought up" here just like those before her.

I do very intensive training with anyone that works here. I devote a lot of resources into them to teach them this trade. I have to consider where they come from... where they are at intellectually.... developmentally... and what I can contribute to their lives as a human being, a worker, and possibly one who will go into this business as a trade. I mentor them while they work here and for many years beyond. I am their second home. Their "go to" second Mama.

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Back to the original question....I used to do some custom sewing work but in the evenings and on the weekends. I have done some sewing with all the kids here but it's usually something for one of them. I end up sewing with two pressing my foot on the presser foot and one on each knee. It doesn't work so well to get anything done. lol
i've been making the kids a felt card table house for this winter and they like to help sew it up. We're making our own pirate ship after all!


I don't think there is anything wrong with knitting or crocheting while the kids are sleeping. I would be extra careful to put everything out of reach even if I needed to go to the washroom but in general I don't see the problem. Good time filler IMO. In fact...if I could crochet anything other than a very long skipping rope then I would probably crochet most afternoons sitting in the yard with the munchkins. I grew up with a mom that knitted all.the.time.

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That is the type of job I would have loved as a teen.

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I am still pretty new but I thought the red box was for post that were inappropriate not just things you don't agree with.

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Your dcp's KNOW you have the kids cut coupons?

We will gladly accept all Ziploc coupons you won't be needing.

We have a prize here for the most Ziploc coupons cut. You get to be the Prince or Princess of Ziplockia for the day. We have a special crown made out of a ziploc box.

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I love ziploc coupons. <3

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she means the one with the "x" in it to close the window

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Thanks, I guess it is just I should wake up before I post Is it Friday yet??

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Hey, what are the red boxes for???

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Thanks for the explanation. I did the same thing with new neices years ago during the summers. One went on to become a teacher and the other one will be doing something in the medical field this fall (going back to school to study).

I only did it for the summers because I don't have enough children for an assistant but they were super helpful for outside time, fieldtrips, etc. I was also pregnant two of the summers so that was great to have a helper for that.

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Love the tags attached to this thread.... (catty, jealous, second job, vindictive)

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I don't think it's fair to say Cheeky is being catty....vindictive, etc. Those tags are innapropriate if you ask me. And, I have seen more than one post in this thread and the water play thread by Nan that are far more catty than anything Cheeky has said.

Re. the "superiority" that Nan exudes....while I happen to agree with alot of Nan's posts, I also sometimes get that feeling from her.....Take a look at her "consulting" site and see what she REALLY thinks about forum posters....basically Nan is an expert and all of us are not.

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Personally...I think it's all pretty ignorant. No two daycares are alike and whether we agree to disagree, that's our prerogative. It doesn't mean we need to attack one another on what YOU may think is good/bad in running their business.

We all have the luxury to take care of children, mold their minds, play with, watch grow up, etc.

Is that really not enough anymore that certain people feel the need to attack with their claws out?! Sheesh ladies! I thought most of us graduated high school years ago!!!

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My "side" jobs:

Mentor Teacher for the California Early Childhood Mentor Program and 4 local community colleges- student teachers work in my program 6 hours per week to complete their practicum to earn their teaching permits and Asssociate's degree. Also mentor other students

Mentor seminar facilitator, workshop developer/presenter

Director Mentor retreat and annual seminar planner/presenter/faciltiator

Sit on the selection committee for the Mentor program

Independent consultant for Head Start

Student working towards a Master's Degree in Human Development with a specialization in ECE

I'm also a Mom

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Actually, I believe it's called "Relational Aggression" and it's fascinating-my sister read a book on it. Let me see is I can get the title...

update: Here it is: Mean Girls Grown Up

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What do you mean by this?

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Oh, I agree that the tags are inappropriate and I wasn't saying they applied to anyone...I was simply pointing them out because I just noticed them. I think we are all perfect for the services we provide, which in my opinion is the beauty of self-employment.

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You know what....I agree. But when forum members feel like they are being insulted, disregarded, etc. then they should be able to say so. When they are being questioned on every single thing they say, by a person who DOES beleive she is superior to others (it is plainly evident) then WHY should they sit back and shut up?

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BTW....I'd like to add....

I do believe Nan has a great program. Although my philosophy of early care and education is completely different than hers, I beleive she provides quality care for the children in her program and meets the needs and desires of her clientele. I do beleive she probably runs a better program than many providers (NOT talking about anyone here).....she works very hard to provide a safe and healthy envionment and program.

That being said, I think that what has been said about we each have the perogative to run our programs as we choose and that each of our program's is unique to us as providers, is true and everyone should be proud of providing quality care for their children and families.

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HENSE WHAT THE LITTLE RED BUTTON UP IN THE CORNER IS FOR! THE "x" BUTTON, YEP, I'VE USED IT A TIME OR TWO.

I would much rather do a little clickity-click that waste any further effort trying to explain or justify my reasoning. It's just that...MY REASONING.

If you know deep down that you are doing right by yourself and right by the kids that you take care of, than you are doing your job!

What ever happened to the phrase, "Can't we all just get along?"

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Based on these two, and I'm sure others before in the thread, those tags may not be too far off the mark .

For anyone who may not be aware of it, if you would prefer not to read posts by a particular forum participant, you can always add them to your "ignore list" in the User CP area.

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Are you reffering to this:

Daycare Consult offers one on one private consultation with daycare providers via the telephone with respect to any problem you might be facing with regard to parental confrontation and child behavior management .

Many daycare providers assume that networking via internet forums or with colleagues will offer them solutions to their problems. However, this assumption is a misnomer. Often times, those who answer forum request for help are not experts with experience in the field of home daycare.

Stop asking the same question only to get the same ineffective answers.

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referring to the second bolded portion.

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I'm not saying that anyone should sit back and shut up.

I love a good heated discussion.

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So what about it? You don't think there aren't a ton of internet forums AND colleagues that aren't day care experts in the field of day care?

There's a WHOLE lotta misinformation going on in the world of day care sistah and you know it.

I'm not referring specifically to ONE board. I'm talking about internet forums in general... (specifically parenting forums.

"expert" is in the eye of the beholder .. that's for sure. I think YOU are an expert in what YOU do. My advice doesn't weigh more than yours... it's just different.

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My "consulting" site?

Why in italics?

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sorry....didn't mean anything by that....I just didn't want it getting confused with your blog site.

Would you please post a link to your consulting site? I lost it and I'd love to read it again.

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PM'd it to you.

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There are red/yellow boxes on some posts...what are those?

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Thanks Nan. You did a good job with your site.

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The lady that did it for me did a really good job. She's a very good writer and web designer.

You should consider your own.

It has brought me a lot of business. The Centers pay really well.

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"Many daycare providers assume that networking via internet forums or with colleagues will offer them solutions to their problems. However, this assumption is a misnomer. Often times, those who answer forum request for help are not experts with experience in the field of home daycare."




I had not seen this arrogant statement until now.
Really? Often times, you are the only expert here?

In the time I have participated in this forum, I have seen numerous problems helped or solved by forum members. Many without one single ounce of input from Nannyde.

You are NOT the best qualified on this board.

You are NOT the most experienced on this board.

You are NOT the best provider on this board.

You are, however, the most self-absorbed.

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Well, when you hover over them, they say "add infraction for [user]" so I'd guess that is someone is being really rude or perhaps not following forum rules, then you can click that and if the user gets too many they're banned. But that's only a guess. Maybe Michael can answer it better?

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Really?! Unregistered and name calling...how cool are you. Anyone can be Barney Bad@ss behind a keyboard! It takes cahoones to stay registered and discuss controversies!

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I think her ad is like many peoples CL ads I have seen that say Best Care or what not. She is advertising a service and needs to sound like what she has IS better than what is out there other places. It is up to the consumer to decide if that is true or not.

I think what she offers is really neat and could be replicated if you would like to try it. I do see it being a good niche to fill. I couldn't do it, I don't have time or staff to provide that service. Kudos to her for being able to balance it all.

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If ya got it - flaunt it!!

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Well I guess I won't be adding you to my customer list.

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Hey Nan,
Would you send me the link to your consulting site? Just in case I ever need it .

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Me too please

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I disagree. There are a lot of experts on here. I'm a professional daycare provider and am an expert in regards to the kids I see daily. No one can be a true expert on all things kid related. Every kid is different and has different needs. I get the behaviors I need and desired out of the children and adults that come here for services. I've had problems and I'm sure to have more but they are what allow us to learn and become deeper experts of ourselves and our methods. Nannyde comes off as an expert because she teaches a lot and knows how to put things many of us do without thinking into words and instructions. She's great at writing and talking about her techniques and is an expert in her method. I'm an expert in my method and like to learn other methods to see how they may or may not fit into mine.

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I see your point.

The thing about internet forums is you CAN'T tell whether the person has experience and/or education in child care.

You can visit a site and get advice in child care related issues and get responses from people who have done it for a few months for one kid. You can get very specific advice on contracts and policies from people who haven't opened up a family child care.

I've been on boards before where posters have been very active and given specific advice and three months later been out of business because they couldn't manage it.

We all know the huge influx of "fly by night" providers in our business. Well ... they are on daycare and parenting internet forums answering posts and giving advice.

My sentence "often times, those who answer forum request for help are not experts with experience in the field of home daycare" was meant to address that factor in forum responses/advice.

I'm out here giving my real name, my education, my experience . I'm easily checkable.

I don't profess to be an expert in all things child related. I don't, for example, do DAP. I don't care for school aged kids. I'm not a teacher or an "early childhood educator".

What I'm an expert in is child CARE. I am hired to offer child care advice, supervision of staff providing child care, child care policies, parent "management" etc. and am paid to give that advice. The only people who hire me are people who look at my credentials and my work and deem that is "expert" enough to pay for my advice.

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In on this thread late, Country Mom! I read your original post, then the last post and boy was I confused how the thread got there! ) After reading all the stuff in between, I see where the mystery tags came in. So....I'm just here to comment on your original post!
I can see why the regs say no other employment while children are in care. Are you looking to make extra money too? I know I am! Summers are slow, my enrollment is down, $ tight. I have been racking my brain for out-of-daycare income sources, so I may as well share my whacky ideas! Maybe freelance writing? Maybe novel writing? Writing is a great way to spend naptime. I do mine on my blackberry, then transfer to pc @ my convenience. (I have several unfinished writing projects! ) Quiet, not disruptive, helps relieve stress. Then I considered weekend work, but something I truly love...maybe historical research, maybe sand sculpting lessons, maybe historic designations for homes and buildings (done these in the past, have two historic designations under my belt).... But that's just weirdo me... Maybe you can find a way to turn YOUR hobby or something YOU love to do into income. "Find something you love to do and find a way to make money doing it." My husband loves to play violin, so he's giving violin lessons after our daycare hours. I'm jealous. So for now, I continue to ponder how I can earn side money. I hope this oddball response gives you some inspiration, or anyone else who reads it.....if anyone makes it down this far in the thread!

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Ya know what Sugar Magnolia? Your hobbies and interests enrich your life MUCH more than money will ever do. What a wonderful array of interests, hobbies and ideas you have! I hope that you can find a "side job" you LOVE from one of those.....very cool....I'm jealous

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Hi Sugar Magnolia,

I was the original poster-Country Kids but I've seen a few with the Country in the names so understandable how it gets confusing. I wasn't thinking so much on making extra money just curious how people do it if there regs. say they can't. I know for my state it is a big NO,NO to do that. I did sell Avon for many years but gave it up because I couldn't put as much time into it as I wanted.

Thank you for getting back to me though! Your ideas were amazing and ones to keep in the back of my mind.

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OK...I just can't bite my tongue on this one!!

I do not believe in any way whatsoever that nan had a sarcastic remark towards working parents...I was a fair statement.

You quoted:

Additionally, you stated that working parents bring their children home to hours of outdoor/water play. Um, I disagree. Working parents are tired. They come home, make dinner, do laundry, clean house, play with their children a bit, bathe them, read to them, and put them to bed. Since my DP's are paying ME to give their child a fun day - I feel it is MY responsibility to do so.

Guess what I run a daycare....I have a 6 year old son...and I MAKE TIME to do fun things (like playing in the water) with my son...all while working a really hard day. Sorry but laundry, house work and whatever else is not going to run away but my son is going to grow up. It is up to me to ensure my son has happy memories of his child hood. And guess what? The school doesn't provide regular water play for him...I don't expect them to...and frankly I think older children enjoy time in the water more than the younger ones and would have more memories as well!

I totally disagree with you on this one!

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I imagine that you do.....BUT, you also have the wonderful privilege of being home during the day to do that with your son.....other parents are AT WORK.......

Of course they SHOULD make time to do these things with their children, but realize that with all of the other parental responsibilities they have, things that we as work at home Moms don't have- commute, 9 hours at work with lunch break, and then not being able to tackle laundry, household "stuff" when they are at work like we can......well, their time is limited with their children. They SHOULD cherish the moments they have, and I am sure most DO....but they cannot provide the opportunity for DAILY FUN like a child care provider who spends 8 AWAKE hours with the children can.

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There was also this comment to me: In another post this week you were telling us all the things you do in your day (different types of work). I asked if your state regulations allow that as ours certainly wouldn't. You never responded. Any a way I take that as you aren't allowed to do those things and didn't want to post back that what you were doing was wrong.

Those are some pretty serious words implying I'm illegally operating my business by operating additional busineses at the same time. Also that I didn't post back because I knew what I was doing was wrong.

Not cool.

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My son is gone from 8:30am until 4:00pm monday through friday. I do not have the time to do any of that with my son until I'm off the clock at 5:15pm! I work almost a 10 hour day and still find time to do fun stuff with my child after hours...and ps I don't get my laundry done during the day...that waits until the weekend or my cleaning lady takes care of it for me! And the school can not provide water play for my son...that was the whole point of the post she was quoting on...there fore it is unfair to state that it is up to providers to do the same!

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Ok.... Now the tags aren't so funny anymore...

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I soooo AGREE with you! I have seen this scenario play out for many, many years! I'm no expert, but I have been in this business long enough to witness this first hand. Parents may want to provide these things, but their time is limited! I have these dcks 10 hours a day and I would feel as though I was cheating them, if I didn't provide these fun filled moments!

I raised all 3 of my own kids while being a home daycare provider and wanted to provide for my own children special childhood memories for them to cherish. It was also my desire to give that to the other dcks in my care as well and now that my own children are grown, I continue to enjoy watching the dcks delight in the simple joys of childhood! This is truly what has kept me going all of these years!

IMHO every parent seeks out what they feel is the right "fit" for their child/family. There is no right answer to this...everyone has their own perspective and desires for what they want. I just know in my heart, what I want to provide and it has been rather disheartening to read some of the remarks posted here!

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