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  #1  
Old 07-27-2010, 11:25 AM
skittles skittles is offline
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Default Is it Common For Parents to Vacation Without Children?

It seems all my dcf are taking a week (or two) off without kids. They will still bring their kids to daycare (same time) and go out on daytrips ect for a week or two. Is this pretty much the same for everyone? Does anyone ever take "family vacations anymore?" Times have changed I guess.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:36 AM
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Hmmm...I've had parents go on vacation and not take the kids, but not stay in town. Usually they are headed to Mexico or on a cruise or something.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:37 AM
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yes it does seem to be the norm nowadays. I have one family who takes one week a year with the kids but they take their days when they want them without kids but never seem to have time to take a day off to take their kids to the dr. like today when they are sick dont' get some parents
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:51 AM
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My husband and I do 1 week vacation without the kids, and 1 week vacation with the kids. We don't go out often as a couple, so we use the week without to "re-kindle". We do the mommy and daddy vacation before the kids vacation, so when we do the vacay with the kids we are rejuvinated and enjoy our time with them more.

Though with husband working on our farm, and me being a SAHM we get a lot of time with our children as it is. (Alot of times it's doing chores as a family, yard work, garden time etc...but it's still bonding!)
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:32 PM
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I would love to go on vacation without the kids, but when I had days off of work I did not take the kids to daycare.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:35 PM
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Whether is common or not I'm not sure, but I would never go on vacation without my kids, ever, they always went with us every where. Now that they are older and can stay home if they choose not to go it is nice that we have that time alone together.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:59 PM
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in six years - my husband and i have spent 4 nights away from the kids - it was on a vacation to the beach. it was great and i didn't feel bad about it one bit.

they normally come with us, but i do think it's something we SHOULD do every year - a vacation with them/one without them.
  #8  
Old 07-27-2010, 02:28 PM
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Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.

Should it be the "norm"? NO!

Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!

Do their kids pick up on this? YES!

Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!

Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!

Am I judgemental? YOU BETCHA! ((but someone needs to speak up for those little people who can't while mommy and daddy lolligag off to Lord knows what after dumping them in daycare all day))
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:38 PM
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I don't get a week away... Maybe a weekend get away ( which I have done) but my parents took care of my kids.... When I go on vacation I want my kids to enjoy it too...
  #10  
Old 07-27-2010, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.

Should it be the "norm"? NO!

Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!

Do their kids pick up on this? YES!

Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!

Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!

Am I judgemental? YOU BETCHA! ((but someone needs to speak up for those little people who can't while mommy and daddy lolligag off to Lord knows what after dumping them in daycare all day))
Tell it like it is SISTER!! I agree!! I have seen single moms, where dad is NOT is the picture at all, have their kids in daycare for 50-70 hours a week, every week. Then the mom thinks she "deserves" a week off to fly off to God knows where while leaving the kid(s) with grandma.

Now, I am going to brag! My DD will be 2 on Friday. She has spent no more than a grand total of 180 hours away from me in her entire LIFE! 40 of those hours were with grandma A while I took care of grandma B following major surgery. 8 of those hours were when I recertified for CPR and First Aid (grandma A babysat again). All the rest were for periods of less than 4 hours (usually 1 hour) while I made quick runs to the store, bank, or doctor (daddy stayed with her). Only about 3-4 of those times were for "date nights" with DH. Oh, and most of these short separations occurred when she was asleep. But once the twins are born and around 4 or 5 years old, we might let my in-laws (grandma & step-grandpa) take the kids to their lakehouse for a week or so in the summer - MAYBE. But DH & I intend that vacations will almost always be family vacations. Especially since we may homeschool and use vacations as learning trips - like to the Grand Canyon, Niagra Falls, Washington DC, etc.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.

Should it be the "norm"? NO!

Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!

Do their kids pick up on this? YES!

Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!

Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!

Am I judgemental? YOU BETCHA! ((but someone needs to speak up for those little people who can't while mommy and daddy lolligag off to Lord knows what after dumping them in daycare all day))
so, are you a selfish parent that doesn't want to spend time with your kid(s) if you take 2,3, or even 4 trips without your kid(s) in eighteen years?

what if you take a vacation (3-5 days) every 5,6, or 7 years without the kids, but you NEVER have date nights or use babysitters?

are people who get a babysitter once a week or even once a month but don't go on a vacation better than someone that has never had a sitter but then goes on a vacation?

just wondering - cus i went on a 4 day trip and it was the first time my husband and i had been alone in six years. we don't use babysitters or have "date nights." we had our kids EVERY NIGHT (like we should) so i didn't see anything selfish about taking a short vacation alone. i personally think anyone that goes YEARS without babysitters deserves a break, but i'm also selfish so i could be wrong.
  #12  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:43 PM
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I don't think it's (always) selfish when parents vacation without their children - whether their children are in full time care or not. Just because people have children doesn't mean that they cease to exist as independent beings - ones who need time to rest and rejuvenate - and sometimes time to reconnect with a spouse or SO. Life with young children is HARD. It's demanding, never-ending and exhausting. Give people a break!

Another thing - since when is it a bad thing for children to have other adults love and care for them occasionally? I'm so incredibly thankful to have my parents, sisters, in-laws and sisters-in-law and yes, when I was working our DCP, around to help us with our four children! I think my kids are incredibly lucky to be growing up so close to their extended family!

We have taken 3 vacations sans children in 9 years. Two weekends away and one four day trip to Las Vegas. They were WONDERFUL and a much needed break from our "real" lives. Our kids spent special time at their grandparents and we came back refreshed and ready to jump in again. This is a GOOD thing people! Plus, we routinely vacation WITH our children AND our extended family. (And, I'm home with my kids 24/7 the rest of the time - sheesh!)

*Oh, and to clarify - I know there are people who simply don't want to deal with their children but I sincerely believe that most people who vacation without their children do not fall into this category.*
  #13  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:06 AM
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so, are you a selfish parent that doesn't want to spend time with your kid(s) if you take 2,3, or even 4 trips without your kid(s) in eighteen years?

what if you take a vacation (3-5 days) every 5,6, or 7 years without the kids, but you NEVER have date nights or use babysitters?

are people who get a babysitter once a week or even once a month but don't go on a vacation better than someone that has never had a sitter but then goes on a vacation?

just wondering - cus i went on a 4 day trip and it was the first time my husband and i had been alone in six years. we don't use babysitters or have "date nights." we had our kids EVERY NIGHT (like we should) so i didn't see anything selfish about taking a short vacation alone. i personally think anyone that goes YEARS without babysitters deserves a break, but i'm also selfish so i could be wrong.

Let's face it. What we ALL know we are talking about here are parents who have 4,6,8 or even more PAID vacation weeks a year and never, ever spend a single one of those days with their kids but dump them in daycare instead. We all see it all the time these days.

I DO think there CAN be a balance but I'm personally not seeing that balance. Here's what I see happening.....

Parents are on paid vacation and decide to stay home but bring their kids to daycare every...single...day of that time off from the minute the provider opens to the minute they close.

Parents on paid vacation who chose to go away. They leave the kids with grandma for the week and grandma brings the kids to daycare all week long.

Hell, now I even see parents with two weeks off over CHRISTMAS who bring their kids every freaking day the provider is open. I mean, seriously, if you can't even spend time with your kids on what, for them, is one of the most magical times of childhood then yes, I WILL deem them selfish.

As with anything in life no one falls into the 100% category of anything. But there are PLENTY of parents out there who fall into the 99% category.

I have had kids in care whose parents pay on time, are never late, follow the policies, would NEVER think to send their kid sick to care. But those SAME parents (whom any provider would thank their lucky stars to have) never, in the 3 or 4 years their kids were in care spent a SINGLE vacation day with them.

Now, how is THAT not selfish?

I think that what people HERE on this forum need to remember is that for the most part, because we stay at home with our kids WE see the importance of our PRESENCE in their daily lives. We do NOT fall into the 99% club.

I also know that a lot of people think I am judgemental, a bitch and off-base. But really, I'm just speaking and writing the truth that so many people are either not willing to consciously acknowledge or too afraid to say themselves. I honestly don't feel that I am alone in my sentiments and views toward the manner in which most children are simply taken for granted by their parents in this world we have created.
  #14  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:44 AM
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I also know that a lot of people think I am judgemental, a bitch and off-base. But really, I'm just speaking and writing the truth that so many people are either not willing to consciously acknowledge or too afraid to say themselves. I honestly don't feel that I am alone in my sentiments and views toward the manner in which most children are simply taken for granted by their parents in this world we have created.
Exactly. No one here was talking about the occasional vacation. I understood it to mean the parents that use every possible moment they can to be AWAY from their kids and not have to actually PARENT them. Everyone needs a break. And when my children are older and can handle it, we plan to get away a little bit. But when they are 12 months old and already spend 50+ hours in daycare away from mom and never see dad? Come on people. No one ever said that parents are selfish if they take the occasional vacation without their children. It's amazing how some people will overexaggerate a comment someone else makes and take it so personally, even when it was is no way directly at them personally. Sheesh!

Judy, how do we get misinterrupted so easily? Wow!
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:23 AM
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It's been MANY years since I have had a parent tell me they were taking the kids out for a week to go on a family vacation.

I've seen some three day and a few four day weekends to go to weddings or family vacations. I've seen some kids going to stay with grandparents or relatives while the parents take vacation and the parents spending a day or two on the front end of the vacation or back end of the vacation WITH their kids.

I've had a number of deals where the grandparents have come to town to care for the kid/s in their homes while the parents go on vacation but still bring the kid to day care every day.

Even with my two weeks off a year I'm not seeing parents use that time to actually go on vacation with thier kids. Most... not all... of my kids are being cared for by someone else while I'm on vacation. Some parents do a few of the days and then then the kid goes to a relative or another day care while I'm on vacation.

It would be interesting to hear from the travel industry to see the trends of tickets bought for under five year olds and "family" vacation packages that include under five year olds. I'll betcha a cyber buck that that has decreased DRAMATICALLY in the last five years.

I think the idea of a family vacation that is about doing stuff with your kids for your kids is becoming less and less a part of the cultural norm. Maybe not so much with school agers and up but for the under five crowd... I think that's really really declined.

I have a large provider network of friends here who have done day care for many years. We talk about this alot because it's very different than it used to be. When I did care in the 90's it was almost understood that each kid would be gone at least two weeks of the year. We sort of figured that into the deal. When looking at this current generation of parents none of us are seeing families actually go on vacation WITH their kids.. meaning for a week they have their kids with them doing stuff as a family every day. A few days here and there maybe but not a dedicated family vacation where all the family is together the whole time.

My friends and I am seeing a huge increase of parents taking actual VACATIONS without their kids. I'm not talking about a long weekend at for holidays but actual week long trips to far away .. have to fly there... destinations. Other than teachers kids, none of us can even tell you the last time we had a family take a full week of vacation together where they did something that was for the whole family and the whole family stayed together with the parents caring for the kids the whole time doing full family activities for a full week.....either in town or out of town for so long none of us even remember when it happened last.

I'm sure some of it is the economy. Some of my families don't have the funds to take a week off and some of them save their vacation paid days for sick days... which I do appreciate.

I don't give free weeks off for vacation but some of my friends do. What they are seeing is that when parents are using the free week off it is when they have free child care NOT when they are going on vacations. None of my friends are seeing parents take the for a full week to take vacations with their kids. Many of my friends who offer this don't even have the parents using it. The ones that require a full week at a time ... not you can have ten days here and there... but a scheduled full week where you don't have to pay... are having kids go years without the parents even using it. The ones that allow it to be done one day at a time are seeing kids gone for the ten days but it's not for vacation but rather days when the parent has someone else to care for the kid or long weekends when the family is going out of town.

So question to you ladies: Do you have parents who take their kids out of day care for one full week and go somewhere or do something as a family WITH their kids where the parents are caring for the kids wall to wall for a week straight?
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:25 AM
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Judy, how do we get misinterrupted so easily? Wow!
Because most people have fragile egos. They care about other people's opinions of them and therefore assume, wrongly most of the time, that any comment is therefore directed at them. Then they get defensive.

Just do what is RIGHT and FAIR to others, speak your mind and stop worrying about what other people think of you. Life is soooo much easier that way!
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:35 AM
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So question to you ladies: Do you have parents who take their kids out of day care for one full week and go somewhere or do something as a family WITH their kids where the parents are caring for the kids wall to wall for a week straight?
I did not have my dckids from July 2nd until July 19th. The parents took 2 weeks off to spend with their kids. They went on a 5 day trip out of state for the 4th of July, and spent the rest of the time at home with them. It was nice!
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:53 AM
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I did not have my dckids from July 2nd until July 19th. The parents took 2 weeks off to spend with their kids. They went on a 5 day trip out of state for the 4th of July, and spent the rest of the time at home with them. It was nice!
Was this unpaid time or paid time? Was this one family and did you have other kids during that time?
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:54 AM
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Was this unpaid time or paid time? Was this one family and did you have other kids during that time?


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:02 AM
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Yes, I believe it would be selfish for a daycare parent who already has their child in daycare 50 hrs a week to go on vacation and not take their children. Now if the kids are having their own "vacation" with grandma (this means g-ma is NOT dropping them at daycare at all) then it's not so bad.. For kids, daycare is the equivalent of their work. The kids deserve that break every bit as much as the parents do.

Now this part is me personally.. I wouldn't go without them. We take our kids with us pretty much everywhere and can't imagine planning a vacation without including them in it. The way we see it, they won't be children forever. We take every opportunity we have to create wonderful childhood memories for them. There'll be plenty of "me" time later. In the mean time, my husband and I content ourselves with 3-4 out of the house date nights a year. After the kids are already asleep g-ma comes over for a few hours so we can have dinner and a movie. Even at the end of our date nights we are eager to get back to them. At this point in life we don't feel the need for any more time away from them than that.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.

Should it be the "norm"? NO!

Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!

Do their kids pick up on this? YES!

Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!

Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!

Am I judgemental? YOU BETCHA! ((but someone needs to speak up for those little people who can't while mommy and daddy lolligag off to Lord knows what after dumping them in daycare all day))
Really? I'm sorry but the last line just really gets to me!!! If I want to take a day off of work to go do a day trip with my husband without the kids...I sure as heck will! When I had my son in daycare I didn't "DUMP" him there to "LOLLIGAG" all day. I sent him to daycare 1 day a week when I was a SAHM with another young baby at home. It was something I wanted to do for him.

Every year my husband and I go away in October for 4 days alone. **GASP**. The kids stay in my daycare and my MIL watches them for us while we are gone outside of daycare hours.

For those of you that are so proud of never leaving your children what are you going to do when it's time for school? I've been on both sides of the fence. A mom that worked almost 50-60 hours a week with kids in daycare and now a mom that is still working 50-60 hours a week running a daycare.

I am appalled by some of the comments providers here make about parents. Absolutely appalled. Sometimes it leaves me speechless. You never know why a parent is taking a day off or even week. It might rekindle the marriage so you aren't dealing with single parents in the future. Think about that.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:49 AM
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For those of you that are so proud of never leaving your children what are you going to do when it's time for school?
My kids homeschool.

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I am appalled by some of the comments providers here make about parents. Absolutely appalled. Sometimes it leaves me speechless. You never know why a parent is taking a day off or even week. It might rekindle the marriage so you aren't dealing with single parents in the future. Think about that.
Uh-huh..... Every situation, every parent is the exception. That is what's wrong with society these days - everyone thinks THEY are the exception.

I would bet my last dollar in the bank that the parents I have in care who have 8 weeks a year off are spending EVERY day alone with their kids in daycare because they are attending a very important non-work appointment or "working on their marriage". Uh-huh....yep...sure......

I'm not surprised that you are "appalled" by my, and many of the other poster's comments. The truth, once spoken, is rarely popular.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:09 AM
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Was this unpaid time or paid time? Was this one family and did you have other kids during that time?
I only have this one family. It was unpaid time. They only pay for the days they are here. I do not have a contract.

This family is not from the U.S. originally. They are very much into family values. Their children go with them everywhere.

I took 2 of the 3 last Saturday night (overnight, unpaid) so mom and dad could have some "alone" time. They were all smiles when they picked their kids up Sunday morning. I treat this family like extended family, and it shows with unexpected bonuses, flexible hours, and lots of appreciation.

Don't get me wrong, their kids aren't perfect (see previous posts on eating issues). However, for the most part, the kids mind well and the parents mind well too!
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:13 AM
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My kids homeschool.



Uh-huh..... Every situation, every parent is the exception. That is what's wrong with society these days - everyone thinks THEY are the exception.

I would bet my last dollar in the bank that the parents I have in care who have 8 weeks a year off are spending EVERY day alone with their kids in daycare because they are attending a very important non-work appointment or "working on their marriage". Uh-huh....yep...sure......

I'm not surprised that you are "appalled" by my, and many of the other poster's comments. The truth, once spoken, is rarely popular.
It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families. I guess we are just so blessed to have such awesome families that are nothing like what you all describe.

I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking?
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:22 AM
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I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking?
It's not about being right. It's about being able to hold your own and back up your opinion. Can you do that??? Where are you articles to prove your point that kids that spend NO time with thier parents are as well adjusted as kids that do?

Huh? Where is that info??

"We" who feel this way have posted our info before. Go and search professionalmom's posts. She has a degree in criminology and has posted in the past very concrete articles and information on the affects of non-parental quality involvement on children. It's all there in black and white.

It's very easy for you to come on and dismiss our views by using a cop-out insinuating we are always right because we collectively push our point. That is you playing the victim because YOUR point is not being taken up by many others. Well, go find some research and come back. Do the work to prove your point and you might find people will change their minds.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:27 AM
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It's not about being right. It's about being able to hold your own and back up your opinion. Can you do that??? Where are you articles to prove your point that kids that spend NO time with thier parents are as well adjusted as kids that do?

Huh? Where is that info??

"We" who feel this way have posted our info before. Go and search professionalmom's posts. She has a degree in criminology and has posted in the past very concrete articles and information on the affects of non-parental quality involvement on children. It's all there in black and white.

It's very easy for you to come on and dismiss our views by using a cop-out insinuating we are always right because we collectively push our point. That is you playing the victim because YOUR point is not being taken up by many others. Well, go find some research and come back. Do the work to prove your point and you might find people will change their minds.
Back off! I just was saying that there is nothing wrong with people who want to take a vacation from their children! Who the heck are you to treat me like this? You have your opinion...I have mine. I never claimed to have any research. The original part of this post was about vacationing without kids before you and PM got off on a tangent on how we are wrong for doing so.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:29 AM
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Back off! I just was saying that there is nothing wrong with people who want to take a vacation from their children! Who the heck are you to treat me like this? You have your opinion...I have mine. I never claimed to have any research. The original part of this post was about vacationing without kids before you and PM got off on a tangent on how we are wrong for doing so.

Okay, so no research then. Gotcha!
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:30 AM
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Okay, so no research then. Gotcha!
Exactly what are you trying to prove here?
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:34 AM
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Exactly what are you trying to prove here?
What I am trying to prove (your words, not mine) is that we were having a very NON-personal discussion about children and their never getting to spend time with their parents and have a break from daycare.

And then you came and made it personal about YOU. It wasn't about YOU. YOU made it that way.

BTW...if you have also noticed that up and until this point both myself and all the other poster have been polite and cordial. You decided not to be.

Just show the research. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. You have that right. Just back it up. I'm always willing to learn and understand a different view point. But I need more info than just your personal history.

You are getting all riled up for no reason.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:38 AM
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What I am trying to prove (your words, not mine) is that we were having a very NON-personal discussion about children and their never getting to spend time with their parents and have a break from daycare.

And then you came and made it personal about YOU. It wasn't about YOU. YOU made it that way.

BTW...if you have also noticed that up and until this point both myself and all the other poster have been polite and cordial. You decided not to be.

Just show the research. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. You have that right. Just back it up. I'm always willing to learn and understand a different view point. But I need more info than just your personal history.

You are getting all riled up for no reason.
I never made this about me. You read it that way. Did I use one example of myself going on vacation without kids once a year? Yep. We also had a family go to Mexico for 12 days without their daughter in May. Did we look and frown on them for doing so? Nope! Have we had moms send their kids an extra day every once in a while so they can go pamper themselves on their day off? Yep! Did we come complain here to the world about it? Nope. They pay us to take care of their children. To teach them. To nurture them. To love them like they are our own. And that my friend is what we do. We love our job.

Where was I not cordial? Please, oh please point that out. And honey...this isn't riled up. You don't know me so please don't act like you do.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:44 AM
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I never made this about me. You read it that way. Did I use one example of myself going on vacation without kids once a year? Yep. We also had a family go to Mexico for 12 days without their daughter in May. Did we look and frown on them for doing so? Nope! Have we had moms send their kids an extra day every once in a while so they can go pamper themselves on their day off? Yep! Did we come complain here to the world about it? Nope. They pay us to take care of their children. To teach them. To nurture them. To love them like they are our own. And that my friend is what we do. We love our job.

Where was I not cordial? Please, oh please point that out. And honey...this isn't riled up. You don't know me so please don't act like you do.
Once again...research???
  #32  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:45 AM
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Once again...research???
Which is why I asked what you want to prove? What research do you want me to come up with other than my own experience in running a daycare? You have me going in circles here lady!

I'm really not a mean person. I just won't let someone walk over me either.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:46 AM
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I only have this one family. It was unpaid time. They only pay for the days they are here. I do not have a contract.

This family is not from the U.S. originally. They are very much into family values. Their children go with them everywhere.

I took 2 of the 3 last Saturday night (overnight, unpaid) so mom and dad could have some "alone" time. They were all smiles when they picked their kids up Sunday morning. I treat this family like extended family, and it shows with unexpected bonuses, flexible hours, and lots of appreciation.

Don't get me wrong, their kids aren't perfect (see previous posts on eating issues). However, for the most part, the kids mind well and the parents mind well too!
Okay now it makes sense.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:52 AM
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Which is why I asked what you want to prove? What research do you want me to come up with other than my own experience in running a daycare? You have me going in circles here lady!

I'm really not a mean person. I just won't let someone walk over me either.
Research and articles previously posted here have shown a direct correlation between increased incidence of crime in young people and lack of time spend in parental care.

Daycare research has shown that the more time a child spend in daycare the more aggressive they will be once they reach the school system and throughout school years.

It's all here if you search for it.

What I am asking from YOU is for similar research that shows that children who spend NO time with their parents are well-adjusted.

No one is "walking all over you". I am simply asking you to back up your point since you took the time to tell me (and other's) that we should find a new profession because or our view on parents spending no time with their children:

Quote:
It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession

That quote conveys to others that our views are WRONG and not soundly based. I maintain that they are as cited above. So, if you want to have any weight at all to YOUR view then back it up with contradictory evidence and studies.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:59 AM
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Thank you Judy. I obviously as you have so nicely pointed out have no research since I'm basing my thoughts on the families we care for. We have no issue with parents going on vacations (back to the original post) without children.

My point about a new profession or families was not based only on this post....it's based on the majority of the posts I've read since joining the board last year. It just seems there is a lot of parent bashing on here and not a wanting to understand why some of the parents do the things they do.

Again, we must just be blessed with some very awesome families.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:49 AM
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So question to you ladies: Do you have parents who take their kids out of day care for one full week and go somewhere or do something as a family WITH their kids where the parents are caring for the kids wall to wall for a week straight?
All of my families do. I have one family who has been gone since friday, come back next wednesday. they are in canada on vacation. they are paying me.

I have a little girl that just came back today. was gone for a week on vacation with her parents and grandparents. they paid me.

I have a little boy who will be gone after today until next week. they are going to the coast on a family vacation. they are paying me.

I guess I am very fortunate, all of my families enjoy the time they have with their children, and they don't mind paying me at all.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:01 PM
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2 of my families went on vacations without the kids.
One took a long weekend and her dd stayed with family.
The other took a week and went to Florida while her girls stayed with friends.
I was payed for both vacations, but one was not happy about it.
The one not happy about it (the Florida one) also went to Universal Studios and brought back souvenirs for her children.... which I thought was kind of harsh when the girls (7 & 5) started getting tears in their eyes telling me about it.
The little one whispered how she wished they could have gone. All I could do was tell her that maybe next time she would get to go, and the older one made a little "as if" sound. So, sucks to be them.
Everyone else took their kids with them, if they went.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:23 PM
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I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you. It's pretty simple really. If you do not like the parent because they tend to be selfish, then why do you still work with them? Honestly, if I had families who took regular days off and always left their child with me, or took regular vacations without their child and their child NEVER got a family vacation, I would tell the parent how I felt and let the chips fall where they may. Of course, I don't have families like this and I can be very open, honest and forthcoming with my families when there is a REAL issue, I guess I have been very lucky, because I just don't have these types of issues.

Now, I am NOT saying that parents SHOULD spend their vacation time without their children....(I would never do that sort of thing, my kids have been on a minimum of three family vacations per year with me and my husband since they were very small, and they have seen many parts of our great country and me and hubby have been away for the weekend three times in 19 years without the kids.) BUT, as I have said before, these are not OUR children, and we don't live in their households to realize WHY parents may need that time away, (it could be many things, stress being one of them) so honestly, it's none of our business. Our business is to provide a quality, loving environment AWAY from the child's home and parent, not to mind the business of the parents or to be the parent.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:38 PM
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I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you. It's pretty simple really. If you do not like the parent because they tend to be selfish, then why do you still work with them? Honestly, if I had families who took regular days off and always left their child with me, or took regular vacations without their child and their child NEVER got a family vacation, I would tell the parent how I felt and let the chips fall where they may. Of course, I don't have families like this and I can be very open, honest and forthcoming with my families when there is a REAL issue, I guess I have been very lucky, because I just don't have these types of issues.

Now, I am NOT saying that parents SHOULD spend their vacation time without their children....(I would never do that sort of thing, my kids have been on a minimum of three family vacations per year with me and my husband since they were very small, and they have seen many parts of our great country and me and hubby have been away for the weekend three times in 19 years without the kids.) BUT, as I have said before, these are not OUR children, and we don't live in their households to realize WHY parents may need that time away, (it could be many things, stress being one of them) so honestly, it's none of our business. Our business is to provide a quality, loving environment AWAY from the child's home and parent, not to mind the business of the parents or to be the parent.

Hahaha...where is Nannyde?? Because she had a GREAT response to this very question!

Do you REALLY think that all your parents are actually TELLING you that they are off when they ARE OFF?? Heck no! I can tell you that half the time a parent is off work but brings their child to daycare they don't utter a single word to me about being off. But I have EYES and I have a CLOCK and I can see what they are wearing and what time they arrived. Both of those things are NOT conducive to them arriving on time to work or being dressed for it!

I'm just gonna say it...I really do NOT believe you. I don't believe that you really have 100% of your parents who are so freaking great that they never would ever even think of spending a day off let alone a week without their kids. I don't believe it.

I think YOU believe it. I think YOU think they are not doing this. But I think they have you fooled. They ARE taking time off - they are just lying about it either openly or by omission. Either that or you are NOT charging them for days their child does not attend. Because THEN they have incentive for staying home with them - money savings!

I find it odd that forum after forum after forum and providers who I know in person CONSTANTLY battle this dilemma and ethical debate but here , only on daycare.com we find an anomaly of providers who simply do not EVER have that problem and have super, duper, great, fantastic PERFECT daycare parents.

Something does not add up.
  #40  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:43 PM
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Hahaha...where is Nannyde?? Because she had a GREAT response to this very question!

Do you REALLY think that all your parents are actually TELLING you that they are off when they ARE OFF?? Heck no! I can tell you that half the time a parent is off work but brings their child to daycare they don't utter a single word to me about being off. But I have EYES and I have a CLOCK and I can see what they are wearing and what time they arrived. Both of those things are NOT conducive to them arriving on time to work or being dressed for it!

I'm just gonna say it...I really do NOT believe you. I don't believe that you really have 100% of your parents who are so freaking great that they never would ever even think of spending a day off let alone a week without their kids. I don't believe it.

I think YOU believe it. I think YOU think they are not doing this. But I think they have you fooled. They ARE taking time off - they are just lying about it either openly or by omission. Either that or you are NOT charging them for days their child does not attend. Because THEN they have incentive for staying home with them - money savings!

I find it odd that forum after forum after forum and providers who I know in person CONSTANTLY battle this dilemma and ethical debate but here , only on daycare.com we find an anomaly of providers who simply do not EVER have that problem and have super, duper, great, fantastic PERFECT daycare parents.

Something does not add up.
Just because you have not seen/experienced those parental types does not mean they don't exist, here or elsewhere
  #41  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:45 PM
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Just because you have not seen/experienced those parental types does not mean they don't exist, here or elsewhere
I'm not saying they don't exist. I have some great daycare parents. But I don't believe it when I see a provider say she has NONE of "those" parents and has never had one of "those" parents.
  #42  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:51 PM
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hahaha! well, your opininion matters SO much to me

I never said my families never take a day off and leave their kids with me. certainly they do, and they do tell me about it. I said they do not go on vacations without their children. Personally, I do not care if they bring their kids when they take a day off. I have a MOm who is off every thursday, and half of those thursdays her son is here with me while she does her grocery shopping, goes to the doctor, gets her hair done, etc. ALL stuff that her kid would not like having to be dragged along for. she also picks up early on thursdays, as soon as she's done with her "stuff" If she feels that this makes her a better mom, because rather than getting frustrated with a whiny child who doesn't want to run errands, resulting in herbeing crabby to her kid, she takes care of business, picks him up and then can spend HAPPY time with her child. I'm fine with it. I had also a MOm recently who went river rafting on a Tuesday and her kids were with me. It was her b-day, she has always wanted to raft and her kids are too small, I kept her kids, told her happy b-day and have a great time. wah, wah, wah, I had to care for her kids while she had a little fun, boo-fricken-hoo.

On the other hand, I had a mom call in sick yesterday so she could spend the day at the state fair with her kids.

And, I could say that I don't believe YOU would never take a day off and leave your kids in daycare while you take care of stuff that the kids would not enjoy, but I don't call people LIARS without facts to prove that they are.

Just because a parent takes a day off doesn't mean they are out having fun or being pampered. they are handling behind the scenes life stuff that is much easier to accomplish solo than with kids in tow. And, sometimes they are being pampered....good for them, we should ALL take time to be pampered and enjoy our time alone, it's good for us.
  #43  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:01 PM
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My kids homeschool.



Uh-huh..... Every situation, every parent is the exception. That is what's wrong with society these days - everyone thinks THEY are the exception.

I would bet my last dollar in the bank that the parents I have in care who have 8 weeks a year off are spending EVERY day alone with their kids in daycare because they are attending a very important non-work appointment or "working on their marriage". Uh-huh....yep...sure......

I'm not surprised that you are "appalled" by my, and many of the other poster's comments. The truth, once spoken, is rarely popular.
Now, that's sad. 8 weeks and no time with their kids? Why would you not say something to them? Like, "you're going on vacation AGAIN? Gee, I bet Johnny would LOVE a day or two at the beach." 8 weeks is alot of paid time off, and I find it hard to believe that ANY parent would not spend one day out of 8 weeks with their children on family outings.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:06 PM
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FYI...one of the reasons why I do not have families like what has been mentioned, is becasue I simply refuse to enroll a family when it is clearly obvious that a parent is so self-involved that they will "neglect" their children so that can have or do whatever they want. I actually sent a parent away during an interview one time and told her I am sorry but I will not be able to work with you. It was awkward, but I KNOW I avoided alot of drama by doing it.

I interview potential clients, just as they interview me. I have become a very good judge of character over the years and I simply will not enroll a family who does not have close to the same philosophy of care as I do. Not exactly the same, because I am willing to see things from others perespectives, but pretty close or the daycare relationship would be stressful and I am not going to add stress to my day.
  #45  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:09 PM
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For those of you that are so proud of never leaving your children what are you going to do when it's time for school? I've been on both sides of the fence. A mom that worked almost 50-60 hours a week with kids in daycare and now a mom that is still working 50-60 hours a week running a daycare.

I am appalled by some of the comments providers here make about parents. Absolutely appalled. Sometimes it leaves me speechless. You never know why a parent is taking a day off or even week. It might rekindle the marriage so you aren't dealing with single parents in the future. Think about that.
Thank you so much for showing concern for my DD and her emotional well-being. It's so nice to hear that others are concerned about how I raise my child. I will most likely homeschool and by the way, my DD is very well adjusted and has never really shown ANY separation anxiety on those rare occasions that we have to leave her with family so DH and I can attend appointments that we both have to be at or for the OCCASSIONAL date night. My DD is more well-adjusted than ANY of the DCKs I have ever had. But this COULD be because she knows that mom and dad are never gone for long and are usually back before she gets bored with grandma, grandpa, uncle J, or Aunt T.

Oh, and why can’t parents “re-kindle” at home after 8pm or 9pm when the kids are in bed? Do we really need a hotel and a beach to re-connect and “feel the love”? That’s pretty sad if you do. My DH and I never got a honeymoon, yet we have a wonderful DD and have still found time to “re-kindle” and make twin girls (due in Nov) all while I worked 80 hours a week, he worked 40 hrs a week and had FT school. I guess we are just a little more creative or a little more dedicated to “finding time for each other” in the midst of LIFE.

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I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking?
Nice sarcasm. So, you think that those of us who have different opinions are so self-righteous. Sounds like you are projecting. Just in case you are not aware of what “projection” is, that is when you see an attribute in others that you detest when in reality you are the one with that attribute. I.e., when a compulsive liar hates it when others lie.

Am I proud that I have spent little time away from my DD? Heck, yes! I had her so I could be a MOM, not her babysitter. I wanted to raise her, not have someone else raise her. So far, I have accomplished this goal and I WILL NOT apologize for it. I never said that people who do not spend all their time with their kids are bad parents. Re-read my posts. You will find that I am VERY understanding about parents who have to do what they have to do to put food on the table. As a matter of fact, my previous post on this thread (re-posted below) shows that I support an occasional vacation away from the kids, but I feel that it is best when the kids are older and can spend a week away for the parents without it causing any trauma. I do NOT support parents who spend every moment of their vacation time away from their kids.
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No one here was talking about the occasional vacation. I understood it to mean the parents that use every possible moment they can to be AWAY from their kids and not have to actually PARENT them. Everyone needs a break. And when my children are older and can handle it, we plan to get away a little bit. But when they are 12 months old and already spend 50+ hours in daycare away from mom and never see dad? Come on people. No one ever said that parents are selfish if they take the occasional vacation without their children.

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It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families.
It’s sad that you don’t see that we are concerned ABOUT the KIDS that we care for. So, according to you, we should shut up, not have opinions, and not speak up when children are being neglected and pawned off to othes every chance the parent gets! There is a saying, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” But I guess, according to you, we should shut up and let parents do whatever they want and keep harming these children while the children suffer in silence.

We love these children and want the best for them. But I guess, according to you, that’s grounds for us to “find a new profession” – why? Because we care TOO much.

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My point about a new profession or families was not based only on this post....it's based on the majority of the posts I've read since joining the board last year. It just seems there is a lot of parent bashing on here and not a wanting to understand why some of the parents do the things they do.
I do try to understand why people do what they do. But sometimes it is not a matter of understanding. If someone commits murder, I don’t have to “understand” why. It’s wrong no matter what. Same thing with a parent who NEVER spends ANY time off with their kids. Some things do warrant understanding, some do not.

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"We" who feel this way have posted our info before. Go and search professionalmom's posts. She has a degree in criminology and has posted in the past very concrete articles and information on the affects of non-parental quality involvement on children. It's all there in black and white.
Thanks for the shout out. But, what do we know, Judy. After all, we’re “just the babysitter”, right? Oh, and we are not entitled to have opinions. We’re horrible b****es if we express any opinion that MIGHT show that parenting has taken a nosedive in the last 30 years. But, don’t worry, Judy, I have your back and I will not stop trying to get people to hear my opinion because my opinions ARE based on research, experience, and the pain I have seen in the eyes of many children who are begging for a little time and attention from mom and dad. THEY are why I speak up.
  #46  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:11 PM
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Hahaha...where is Nannyde?? Because she had a GREAT response to this very question!

Do you REALLY think that all your parents are actually TELLING you that they are off when they ARE OFF?? Heck no! I can tell you that half the time a parent is off work but brings their child to daycare they don't utter a single word to me about being off. But I have EYES and I have a CLOCK and I can see what they are wearing and what time they arrived. Both of those things are NOT conducive to them arriving on time to work or being dressed for it!

I'm just gonna say it...I really do NOT believe you. I don't believe that you really have 100% of your parents who are so freaking great that they never would ever even think of spending a day off let alone a week without their kids. I don't believe it.

I think YOU believe it. I think YOU think they are not doing this. But I think they have you fooled. They ARE taking time off - they are just lying about it either openly or by omission. Either that or you are NOT charging them for days their child does not attend. Because THEN they have incentive for staying home with them - money savings!

I find it odd that forum after forum after forum and providers who I know in person CONSTANTLY battle this dilemma and ethical debate but here , only on daycare.com we find an anomaly of providers who simply do not EVER have that problem and have super, duper, great, fantastic PERFECT daycare parents.

Something does not add up.
Sweet Jesus...here we go again. YES...we do have super, duper, great, fantastic families. You have crappy ones which is evident by your posts. Again, if my families take a day off and send their kids to daycare to get some errands done (most have 2-4 kids) then so be it. As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business. It's no different than a teacher taking a personal day or whatnot. Do you want to take your kids to your OB appointment when you're up on a table legs spread open? You really want your 2 year old in the room for that?
  #47  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:17 PM
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Sweet Jesus...here we go again. YES...we do have super, duper, great, fantastic families. You have crappy ones which is evident by your posts. Again, if my families take a day off and send their kids to daycare to get some errands done (most have 2-4 kids) then so be it. As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business. It's no different than a teacher taking a personal day or whatnot. Do you want to take your kids to your OB appointment when you're up on a table legs spread open? You really want your 2 year old in the room for that?
lol! So you know, though, she was talking to me! Her and nanny simply cannot believe that I actually love my work and my families. (of course I'm a liar so you may not wanna believe me either) seems they are a bit bitter.

FYI: I am in TOTAL agreement with you on all counts in this thread.
  #48  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:20 PM
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FYI...one of the reasons why I do not have families like what has been mentioned, is becasue I simply refuse to enroll a family when it is clearly obvious that a parent is so self-involved that they will "neglect" their children so that can have or do whatever they want. I actually sent a parent away during an interview one time and told her I am sorry but I will not be able to work with you. It was awkward, but I KNOW I avoided alot of drama by doing it.

I interview potential clients, just as they interview me. I have become a very good judge of character over the years and I simply will not enroll a family who does not have close to the same philosophy of care as I do. Not exactly the same, because I am willing to see things from others perespectives, but pretty close or the daycare relationship would be stressful and I am not going to add stress to my day.
Same here! We terminated a family that was drama. No problems with that either.
  #49  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:23 PM
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lol! So you know, though, she was talking to me! Her and nanny simply cannot believe that I actually love my work and my families. (of course I'm a liar so you may not wanna believe me either) seems they are a bit bitter.

FYI: I am in TOTAL agreement with you on all counts in this thread.
Oh I knew! I wanted all to know that our daycare has great families too!
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:27 PM
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Emosks, isn't it GREAT when you can wake up every morning and "go" to a job you enjoy? I recommend every one finds "that" job if they are unhappy with their current place of employment.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:32 PM
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Hahahaha! I just realized that I am a BAD MOM!!!! My kids, 17 and 12 are spending the night at grandma's and a friend's tonight and me and hubby are gonna get busy!!! dang, maybe I better cancel my plans.

I completely forgot they were going to be gone tonight until I read this thread!
  #52  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:34 PM
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And, I could say that I don't believe YOU would never take a day off and leave your kids in daycare while you take care of stuff that the kids would not enjoy, but I don't call people LIARS without facts to prove that they are.

Just because a parent takes a day off doesn't mean they are out having fun or being pampered. they are handling behind the scenes life stuff that is much easier to accomplish solo than with kids in tow. And, sometimes they are being pampered....good for them, we should ALL take time to be pampered and enjoy our time alone, it's good for us.
I know that this was directed at Judy, but I do have to say Judy and I are so alike, we could be sisters. So, I certainly would NOT take a day off and leave my child(ren) in daycare. I could never deal with the guilt of it. Actually, approximately 20 years ago a babysitter sexually abused a 3 year old family member of mine. Since then, NO ONE other than family (and the church nursery during church services) is EVER allowed to watch any child in my family. So, I can honestly and unequivocally say that NO, I would not leave my child in daycare for ANY time that was not absolutely necessary. Heck, I wouldn't even leave her (or them) in the care of someone other than daddy unless it was absolutely necessary. But I guess it's very hard to believe that there are people that take parenting THAT seriously these days.

As for doing things outside work with children in tow. There are only a few things I would not do with DD in tow (unless I absolutely had no one to take her) - go to court or go to the hospital. That's the only 2 places I can think of right now. Every other place is a possible child tag-along, even the fancy restraunt DH and I like to go to for our "date" nights. She's been there everytime we have been there since she was born. She always goes on errands with me unless she stays with dad. She spends approximately 1-3 hours a MONTH away from mom AND dad, in the care of some other family member. But I guess it really is hard to believe that people like Judy and I actually exist in 2010. Call me old-fashioned and I will blush from the compliment! At least I know my grandma would be proud of me as a mother, if she were still alive.

As for pampering, I get that in too - when dad or grandma can babysit. And it's maybe 3 times a year. So, I guess my philosophy is God first, parenting second, marriage third, pampering and me time fourth. It's perfectly alright with me if you or anyone else has a different philosophy. I don't think you're a terrible person if you do. Different philosophies are what make us unique.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:41 PM
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Hahahaha! I just realized that I am a BAD MOM!!!! My kids, 17 and 12 are spending the night at grandma's and a friend's tonight and me and hubby are gonna get busy!!! dang, maybe I better cancel my plans.

I completely forgot they were going to be gone tonight until I read this thread!
Your overexaggerations just go to show that you have NOT read this thread in it's entirety. NO ONE ever said you were a bad mom. NO ONE ever said that the occassional night away from the kiddos is bad. ACTUALLY, what I said was that when they are OLDER and can handle the separation, it;s much more acceptable. I highly doubt 12 and 17 is too young for an overnight away from mom and dad. How do you get that it's the same as a week away from a 12 month old or a 2 year old? Queen of mountain out of a mole hill!!
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:43 PM
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Holy buckets of rrrrrrrrr... Oyi.....

Heres the deal not all parents are chumps.... Taking a break from your child(ren) is not bad....

If a parent is paying for the services then why not use it, it's the patents choice. Even if research says it doesn't mean all children will be like it... I try not to shop with my children, I do all shopping on Saturday afternoons, when dad is home...

We all have a difference in opionions based on what we have going on in our dyc or what has gone on in our dyc....
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:44 PM
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professionalmom, it certainly was not directed at you....I do have a great amount of respect for you and I KNOW you spend most waking hours with your DD and will with the twins as well.

My point was, we ALL take some time without our children......even you say that dad or grandma "babysits" for you from time to time.

I do not think it's okay for parents to spend ALL of their time off without their children. I certainly think that they should be spending the vast majority of their time off with their children. But, we all have things we HAVE to do or that are much easier - for ourselves and for our children - without the children in tow. Some parents have ONLY their daycare provider that they can leave their child with....not everyone has the luxury of a nearby relative or even a father in the household, that can care for their children while they tend to those things.

As far as going on week-long vacations without their children, I had never even realized that this was an issue for providers because I have NEVER had a parent take a weeklong vacation without their children. I am pretty sure I would know if they did, as someone else would be bringing their children to daycare. And, of the MANY providers I know, not one has ever complained about this being an issue.

I could see this being an issue, if every single time a parent has an extra hour or two, they use every minute of it for themselves, but I am not seeing that with my families.

ProMom, you just keep doing what you're doing for your family....you ARE a great Mom, and I know that YOU have truly always had your dck best interests at heart.
  #56  
Old 07-28-2010, 02:45 PM
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Your overexaggerations just go to show that you have NOT read this thread in it's entirety. NO ONE ever said you were a bad mom. NO ONE ever said that the occassional night away from the kiddos is bad. ACTUALLY, what I said was that when they are OLDER and can handle the separation, it;s much more acceptable. I highly doubt 12 and 17 is too young for an overnight away from mom and dad. How do you get that it's the same as a week away from a 12 month old or a 2 year old? Queen of mountain out of a mole hill!!

lol! I was being sarcastic - totally kidding, except they are going to be gone tonight
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:08 PM
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thinking about your comment promom, the little jab at the end there saying "queen of making a mountain out of molehill" How exactly did I do that?

I am not the one making blanket statements. Molehill - some parents take days off and don't spend it with their kids Mountain: ALL parents take days off and don't spend one minute of it with their kids. mountain: ALL of my DCP who get 8 WEEKS of vacation time send their kids to daycare EVERY SINGLE ONE of those days. etc. etc. etc.

THOSE comments are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Your damn right I am going to speak up and defend parents when providers are LYING about parenting practices. Why do so many daycare providers feel the need to talk trash about the people who are providing them with a career? And why do those same providers think that THEY are the perfect parent and we should all just bend over and say, yeah, okay you're right. WHY can we not state our DIFFERENT opinion without US being the ones who are WRONG or MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL. I stated my opinions, just like every other provider here....I didn't start the insinuations that someone here is a liar, etc.

And, I asked a question.....a quite simple one that has yet to be answered: If as a provider, you are so DISGUSTED with your dcf parenting practices, WHY do you continue to care for their children? In Judy's words "NEXT!"

My question was simply responded to with accusations that I am a liar.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by emosks View Post
Sweet Jesus...here we go again. YES...we do have super, duper, great, fantastic families. You have crappy ones which is evident by your posts. Again, if my families take a day off and send their kids to daycare to get some errands done (most have 2-4 kids) then so be it. As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business. It's no different than a teacher taking a personal day or whatnot. Do you want to take your kids to your OB appointment when you're up on a table legs spread open? You really want your 2 year old in the room for that?

Ah hah! See? That is the difference. YOU don't care if they take the day off and leave their kids in care. So, they DO do it!

Well, I DO care! I care, not for me, but for those kids. Yes, I care. Gasp.....

Oh and Crystal....yes, I DO have parents who actually have a combined 14 weeks off a year whose children spent FOUR years in my care and NEVER once had a day off with their parents. Really and truly. Sad, sad, sad.

Well, I'm going off for my long weekend now. I can't be bothered to bang my head against the wall anymore "talking" to those who have sunshine and rainbows shooting out their asses without a shred of reality.

Good God!

Of course, your fragile egos will assume you "won". Whatever.

In the end it's the kids that lose because not enough people care to CARE about their problem - being dumped in daycare when it is not necessary. Congratulations - you just added to the problem.
  #59  
Old 07-28-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
thinking about your comment promom, the little jab at the end there saying "queen of making a mountain out of molehill" How exactly did I do that?

I am not the one making blanket statements. Molehill - some parents take days off and don't spend it with their kids Mountain: ALL parents take days off and don't spend one minute of it with their kids. mountain: ALL of my DCP who get 8 WEEKS of vacation time send their kids to daycare EVERY SINGLE ONE of those days. etc. etc. etc.

THOSE comments are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Your damn right I am going to speak up and defend parents when providers are LYING about parenting practices. Why do so many daycare providers feel the need to talk trash about the people who are providing them with a career? And why do those same providers think that THEY are the perfect parent and we should all just bend over and say, yeah, okay you're right. WHY can we not state our DIFFERENT opinion without US being the ones who are WRONG or MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL. I stated my opinions, just like every other provider here....I didn't start the insinuations that someone here is a liar, etc.

And, I asked a question.....a quite simple one that has yet to be answered: If as a provider, you are so DISGUSTED with your dcf parenting practices, WHY do you continue to care for their children? In Judy's words "NEXT!"

My question was simply responded to with accusations that I am a liar.
The "mountain out of a molehill" comment was because we are daycare providers (at least I was until I had to shut down due to complications in my pregnancy), which means we are usually talking about babies, toddlers, and preschoolers. The question posed was regarding parents (I'm sorry I ASSUMED that to mean parents of young children - the kids we are involved with) taking long vacations without their children. To stretch that into meaning an overnight away for a 12 year old and a 17 year old is REALLY stretching the issue at hand. Once children start school, they are away from mom and dad for 6-8 hours a day, developing relationships outside the home, etc. So, that becomes a whole different issue (or non-issue, as I see it).

What worries me is this: the formative years (birth to kindergarten) are called "the formative years" for a reason - that is when most of the "person" and values will take hold. This is the most crucial time in a person's life. Trauma during this time will result in psychological manifestations that could, and often do, last a lifetime. During this time period in a child's life, (s)he NEEDS to be with the parents as much as possible. Every single child care course or book I have ever seen expresses this fact. There are studies after studies that state this. It is NOT about QUALITY time. It is about QUANTITY time. So, it is very, very, very, very sad when a parent who works outside the home for 40-50 hours a week turns around and takes EVEN MORE time away from that child. What always gets my goat is when people talk about the parent's rights or needs. I believe that the child's rights and needs MUST come first. Yes, parents WANT a break. But the child NEEDS to be with the parent during these first 5 years. The children NEED for the parents to "get it" that the parent's wants and desires sometimes need to be put on hold during the child's formative years. I know, IT'S 5 YEARS!!!! But that's my point - it's ONLY 5 years. In a lifetime of at least 60-90 years, it truly is a small sacrifice for the sake of our babies - our most precious resource we have in this entire world. I don't understand how anyone could defend a parent being away from his or her child for 50+ hours a week, PLUS weekend nights to go out drinking and dating, PLUS a couple week-long vacations a year.

I guess I had an angel for a mom. She and my dad divorced when I was 18 mths. She worked nights, slept when I napped or after I went to bed, and spent every possible moment with me, taking care of me. She went out for "me time" ONLY after I went to bed. I had to have been 5 or 6 before I even realized my mom had a job. And she never would have taken a vacation from me. She missed me like crazy when she was at work, so a vacation to her was spending time with me. She also never took sick time for her own illnesses. She used her sick time for when I was sick, so she could be the one home taking care of me. I guess I'm biased because of how I was raised. By the time I entered kindergarten, I was thrilled to go on this new adventure. It wasn't scary for me, because I already had a secure attachment to mom and knew that no matter what happened, she would be there for me. So I was ready to venture out into the world without fear, because I knew I had a safety net called mom. Sadly, many kids today do not have that type of security because they are not being given the proper TIME needed to develop that bond.
  #60  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:10 PM
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I will post comments later but I'm right with you emosks.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
I have a MOm who is off every thursday, and half of those thursdays her son is here with me while she does her grocery shopping, goes to the doctor, gets her hair done, etc. ALL stuff that her kid would not like having to be dragged along for. she also picks up early on thursdays, as soon as she's done with her "stuff"
Crystal

If a parent who is off every Thursday brings her kid every other Thursday that is two days a month where she is brining the kid to day care when she isn't working.

Two days a month equals 24 days a year. 24 days a year is equal to a full calander working month. She is sending him to day care for a month a year when she isn't working.

THIS is what I'm talking about. I don't care if she picks up early or not. That is a HUGE amount of time.

You don't get it. You really don't.

I would NEVER have my kid in day care for 24 days a year when I wasn't working. I think that's shameful. I don't care what she has to do... what she wants to do.. how you guys all think she's a better parent if she can "get things done that the kid wouldn't like to tag along to". Sorry but if I had that amount of time off I would have less things to do. I'd make sure I figured out a way to take my kid with me on my "errands" and have him LOVE it.

And if she is off every Thursday when is she working? Does she work on the weekends? Does she do long days four days a week. PLEASE tell me she is just a part time employee.

I have NEVER been on a trip without my kid in his entire ten years. I have taken him all over the world MANY times WITH me. I wouldn't dream of spending precious family time away from him. He's my baby and I want him to have the life experience of travel. I want him to just have "ME" without me having to do anything but HIM.

We are fortunate enough to afford extensive travel. Even during times when we couldn't afford to I still spent the entire vacation with my baby. Spending days off and vacation time with your kids is about doing the day to day... one after another... where they have a completely different life. It's the bonding that comes with consequtive uninterupted time with their parents.

I get 18 days off a year plus the weekends. I spend every day with my son. He's mine. He's my baby. I love him more than anything in the world and there is NOTHING more important to me then spending the precious little time I have off with my kid.

We need to stop making excuses about parents shunning their kids. We need to promote that they need TIME with their parents. It's okay if they run errands. It's okay if they go to the Doctor. It's okay if they go to the Lawyer. It's okay for them to be out of their routine. It's okay for them to not be with their "friends".

I've never met a full time day care kid who would rather be in day care than be with their parents even if it means grocery shopping, getting nails done, going to the Dr. etc. Kids want to be WITH their parents. It's providers like you and parents like her that are making society think this is okay and "really" for the best interest of the kid.

You are making it sounds like it somehow funnels down to being better for the kid and it's not.
  #62  
Old 07-28-2010, 05:00 PM
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I have really good parents who keep their children home when they don't go to work usually. I do have one single dad that does not. It makes me sad because I know how much those kids want to be with their dad, mom is a mess and unable to really take care of them. They adore their dad! It is just sad.
None of my parents take week long vacations with their families at least not this year.
  #63  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:11 PM
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I didn't start the insinuations that someone here is a liar, etc. My question was simply responded to with accusations that I am a liar.
I did not accuse you of being a liar. I did make a comment about liars, but that was an example of PROJECTION. I guess another example could be someone who is a pushover, yet chastises others for being pushovers. They often do not see themselves as a pushover and find it appalling that others "let" themselves get taken advantage of, all the while they are being a doormat themselves. So if you thought I was accusing you of lying, I was not. If you didn't think that, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:18 PM
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And, I asked a question.....a quite simple one that has yet to be answered: If as a provider, you are so DISGUSTED with your dcf parenting practices, WHY do you continue to care for their children? In Judy's words "NEXT!"
Why? Because we CARE about the children. And we are hoping that eventually the parent will "get it" when we keep explaining, "little Johnny missed you so much today. I'll bet he's really looking forward to having some mommy time this weekend." Hint hint.

After all, when the DCK has a parent that is spending less than 20-30 WAKING hours with the kid each week, someone needs to be a loving constant in the child's life. If the parent refuses to be that person, I guess it falls to us. And, it's not that I ever minded HAVING the kid(s) while mom was off vacationing or getting pampered or whatever, I didn't. I loved each and every one of my DCKs. I just felt SO sorry for them because they had parents (usually moms) that just did not see the pain they were causing their child. It's called empathy. And I consider myself a child advocate, because someone needs to speak for these little helpless children whose needs are being ignored.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:21 PM
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I did not accuse you of being a liar. I did make a comment about liars, but that was an example of PROJECTION. I guess another example could be someone who is a pushover, yet chastises others for being pushovers. They often do not see themselves as a pushover and find it appalling that others "let" themselves get taken advantage of, all the while they are being a doormat themselves. So if you thought I was accusing you of lying, I was not. If you didn't think that, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
She is referring to what I said:

Quote:
I'm just gonna say it...I really do NOT believe you. I don't believe that you really have 100% of your parents who are so freaking great that they never would ever even think of spending a day off let alone a week without their kids. I don't believe it.

I think YOU believe it. I think YOU think they are not doing this. But I think they have you fooled. They ARE taking time off - they are just lying about it either openly or by omission. Either that or you are NOT charging them for days their child does not attend. Because THEN they have incentive for staying home with them - money savings!
But, alas, taken out of context because it was not really READ. What I said was that I think Crystal believes that her parents are working when they say they are but experience tells me they really aren't. My point is that the parents are not being open and therefore lying by omission to Crystal and she, therefore, assumes then to always be at work when their kids are in care.

That's why I say it's "not true" - as in not FACTUAL that the parents are actually at work when they say they are!

But I also DID imply that I think she is not being very realistic. And, as later admitted and pointed out by Nannyde, Crystal DOES indeed have parents who drop their kids into care when they are NOT working. One family is doing this 24 days a year according to Nannyde's math.

So, yeah, take it as you will.

Last edited by judytrickett; 07-28-2010 at 06:27 PM.
  #66  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:34 PM
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Why? Because we CARE about the children. And we are hoping that eventually the parent will "get it" when we keep explaining, "little Johnny missed you so much today. I'll bet he's really looking forward to having some mommy time this weekend." Hint hint.

After all, when the DCK has a parent that is spending less than 20-30 WAKING hours with the kid each week, someone needs to be a loving constant in the child's life. If the parent refuses to be that person, I guess it falls to us. And, it's not that I ever minded HAVING the kid(s) while mom was off vacationing or getting pampered or whatever, I didn't. I loved each and every one of my DCKs. I just felt SO sorry for them because they had parents (usually moms) that just did not see the pain they were causing their child. It's called empathy. And I consider myself a child advocate, because someone needs to speak for these little helpless children whose needs are being ignored.
Yeah, that above.

AND, when I was growing up I WAS that kid whose parents lolligagged off to be away from me and my sister every freaking second they got. And I can tell you first hand that KIDS KNOW!

So, yeah, I judge. I judge because I KNOW kids deserve better. I KNOW it has a lasting impact on you your ENTIRE life to understand that you were not a real, genuine priority to your parents.

I advocate FOR children. Sure, maybe it comes off as judgemental, bitchy and nasty but so be it. It's the truth.

I SEE it in the kids whose parents are doing this. And I GET IT! And sure, I can ship them off but there will always be another 100 parents standing in line just like the ones that left with the same lack of priorities.

I am seeing LESS and LESS parents who want to spend time with their kids. It's a fact. It's increasing in "normalcy". And Yes, it's WRONG because it has lifetime ramifications for that child who sat ALL day for the 50th hour that week in the care of a daycare provider because mommy or daddy needed "ME" time for the 20th time that year.

What would you rather we do? Look the other way? Pretend it's not happening? Say nothing?

Yeah...not me...I don't work that way.

I will go back to the quote Professionalmom cited (which is really weird as it is my favourite ALL time quote that I often cite myself)....

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

But I will add to that quote that what is WORSE is to make excuse for those who are doing the wrong doing.

Last edited by judytrickett; 07-28-2010 at 06:38 PM.
  #67  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:43 PM
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As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business.
Wow. I love this. So if I'm getting paid, and doing my job, that's where it ends? Well, I was under the impression that I'm a mandated reporter and I take that to mean that what happens to these children outside my home IS my business. So it's not like we punch a time clock and when we're off, we're off. And when a parent is constantly looking for excuses to avoid being with their kids (again, NOT the occasional date night, overnight at grandma's and such) ALL the time, EVERY week, then I do think they are pushing the limit. Although it is not reportable as neglect, it is questionable and would raise red flags in my book, causing me to watch that child a little more closely for signs of neglect or abuse.

Just because someone PAYS me, does not mean I will overlook the damage and pain they are causing.

I just wonder how far this "it's none of my business" goes in your book (and in the books of the others who have used the same logic). At what point do you think it BECOMES your business? You are acting as a surrogate parent to these children. They need you to speak for them when they are hurt or in pain, whether it's physical, sexual, neglect, or emotional.

You may think I am over reaching here, but it is scary when daycare providers (a.k.a. mandated reporters) say, "As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business." Don't you care about the emotional and psychological well-being of these children, as well as their physical and sexually well-being? Don't you care about how EXTRA, UNNECESSARY time away from the parents is damaging these children? And you think it's "none of your business"? I don't get it. And I don't think I could ever be that clinical about the care of children.
  #68  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:39 PM
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Wow. I love this. So if I'm getting paid, and doing my job, that's where it ends? Well, I was under the impression that I'm a mandated reporter and I take that to mean that what happens to these children outside my home IS my business. So it's not like we punch a time clock and when we're off, we're off. And when a parent is constantly looking for excuses to avoid being with their kids (again, NOT the occasional date night, overnight at grandma's and such) ALL the time, EVERY week, then I do think they are pushing the limit. Although it is not reportable as neglect, it is questionable and would raise red flags in my book, causing me to watch that child a little more closely for signs of neglect or abuse.

Just because someone PAYS me, does not mean I will overlook the damage and pain they are causing.

I just wonder how far this "it's none of my business" goes in your book (and in the books of the others who have used the same logic). At what point do you think it BECOMES your business? You are acting as a surrogate parent to these children. They need you to speak for them when they are hurt or in pain, whether it's physical, sexual, neglect, or emotional.

You may think I am over reaching here, but it is scary when daycare providers (a.k.a. mandated reporters) say, "As long as I get my money and am doing MY job then it's none of my business." Don't you care about the emotional and psychological well-being of these children, as well as their physical and sexually well-being? Don't you care about how EXTRA, UNNECESSARY time away from the parents is damaging these children? And you think it's "none of your business"? I don't get it. And I don't think I could ever be that clinical about the care of children.
Have you been reading my posts? The families that we have currently enrolled DO NOT DUMP THEIR KIDS when they are off of work! I don't care what Judy says that they are telling me lies about where they are. SHE DOES NOT KNOW MY FRIENDS! Plain and simple. I'm mandated to report issues of sexual abuse, physical abuse and such. If a parent wants to get away or get their freaking hair cut when their child is in my care I'm supposed to report this? Really? If I called my licensing consultant to tell her that one of my DCGs parents went to Mexico without her...she'd laugh at me. Seriously...c'mon. Really? I really don't know how you guys think that you just know so much about MY families.
  #69  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Ah hah! See? That is the difference. YOU don't care if they take the day off and leave their kids in care. So, they DO do it!

Well, I DO care! I care, not for me, but for those kids. Yes, I care. Gasp.....

Oh and Crystal....yes, I DO have parents who actually have a combined 14 weeks off a year whose children spent FOUR years in my care and NEVER once had a day off with their parents. Really and truly. Sad, sad, sad.

Well, I'm going off for my long weekend now. I can't be bothered to bang my head against the wall anymore "talking" to those who have sunshine and rainbows shooting out their asses without a shred of reality.

Good God!

Of course, your fragile egos will assume you "won". Whatever.

In the end it's the kids that lose because not enough people care to CARE about their problem - being dumped in daycare when it is not necessary. Congratulations - you just added to the problem.
WRONG AGAIN! Who the heck are you? Do you live in my house? Do you attend my daycare? Didn't think so. Enough said.

Keep banging your head on that wall sweetie!! And I think you are referring to yourself.

Also, no need to start swearing here. Just shows who you really are.
  #70  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:44 PM
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I know that this was directed at Judy, but I do have to say Judy and I are so alike, we could be sisters. So, I certainly would NOT take a day off and leave my child(ren) in daycare. I could never deal with the guilt of it. Actually, approximately 20 years ago a babysitter sexually abused a 3 year old family member of mine. Since then, NO ONE other than family (and the church nursery during church services) is EVER allowed to watch any child in my family. So, I can honestly and unequivocally say that NO, I would not leave my child in daycare for ANY time that was not absolutely necessary. Heck, I wouldn't even leave her (or them) in the care of someone other than daddy unless it was absolutely necessary. But I guess it's very hard to believe that there are people that take parenting THAT seriously these days.

As for doing things outside work with children in tow. There are only a few things I would not do with DD in tow (unless I absolutely had no one to take her) - go to court or go to the hospital. That's the only 2 places I can think of right now. Every other place is a possible child tag-along, even the fancy restraunt DH and I like to go to for our "date" nights. She's been there everytime we have been there since she was born. She always goes on errands with me unless she stays with dad. She spends approximately 1-3 hours a MONTH away from mom AND dad, in the care of some other family member. But I guess it really is hard to believe that people like Judy and I actually exist in 2010. Call me old-fashioned and I will blush from the compliment! At least I know my grandma would be proud of me as a mother, if she were still alive.

As for pampering, I get that in too - when dad or grandma can babysit. And it's maybe 3 times a year. So, I guess my philosophy is God first, parenting second, marriage third, pampering and me time fourth. It's perfectly alright with me if you or anyone else has a different philosophy. I don't think you're a terrible person if you do. Different philosophies are what make us unique.
Sorry to hear about what happened to your family member...but molestation occurs within families too you know.
  #71  
Old 07-28-2010, 08:40 PM
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Now, that's sad. 8 weeks and no time with their kids? Why would you not say something to them? Like, "you're going on vacation AGAIN? Gee, I bet Johnny would LOVE a day or two at the beach." 8 weeks is alot of paid time off, and I find it hard to believe that ANY parent would not spend one day out of 8 weeks with their children on family outings.
A provider down the street from me has a teacher's child in care...Mom's at home all summer long...guess where the kids are???

Yup, 50+ hours a week in care.
  #72  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:20 PM
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Have you been reading my posts? The families that we have currently enrolled DO NOT DUMP THEIR KIDS when they are off of work! I don't care what Judy says that they are telling me lies about where they are. SHE DOES NOT KNOW MY FRIENDS! Plain and simple. I'm mandated to report issues of sexual abuse, physical abuse and such. If a parent wants to get away or get their freaking hair cut when their child is in my care I'm supposed to report this? Really? If I called my licensing consultant to tell her that one of my DCGs parents went to Mexico without her...she'd laugh at me. Seriously...c'mon. Really? I really don't know how you guys think that you just know so much about MY families.
First, you are right that she does not know your particular DC families. However, there are so many parents out there that are dumping their kids in daycare for every moment that the parent is out of the house, not just for work, school, court, etc., but for beauty appointments, grocery shopping, vacations, bar-hopping, lunches with friends, cleaning their houses on their "mental health" day, etc. It is very odd that any provider would not have at least one parent like this or at least HAD a parent like this.

As for the BOLDED part above, WHEN DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REPORTING THIS TYPE OF STUFF!?!?! If you would have read my post CORRECTLY, you would have seen that it said that THIS type of situation does NOT rise to the level of neglect. I was pointing out that as mandated reporters, it IS our job to CARE about these children. Again, we are NOT talking about an occasional hair appointment. We are talking about parents who have their kids in daycare 50+ hours a week, then dump them with family on the weekends so they can run errands, get groceries, date, bar-hop, whatever. Then they turn around and take "mental health" days and sick days while bringing their kids to daycare. Then they turn around and fly to some far-away destination, leaving their child(ren) with family for a week just because the parent(s) need a "break". A break from what? Their kids? How can you need a break from something you're never around?

As mandated reporters, it IS our job to care. Even if it does NOT rise to the level of "legal" neglect. But your comment insinuated that as long as they pay you, you will keep your eyes and ears shut and your mouth zipped. It sounded a little like "it doesn't matter what they do as long as I get my money." I AM NOT quoting you, I said it SOUNDED LIKE. So do NOT take my words and twist them like you have already tried to do. Again, even though it does NOT rise to a reportable offense, it is still neglect in my book, whether you agree with it or not. And the research backs up the FACT that the more hours a child is away from his/her parents, the worse the damage and long-term consequences are. But if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's "none of your business" and "not your problem", go right ahead.

Frankly, I don't get why this is even an issue. We are talking about young children. They need their parents during the formative years. Period. The research has been done to death on it and it is conclusive. Period. End of story. I just don't get how anyone can defend, let alone support, parents WANTING to be away from their children as much as they can possibly get away or stay away.

But I guess you will continue to misquote me, twist my words around and, and defend your position until your dying breath. So I guess to end this "argument" I should just concede to YOUR position and agree that parents should be able to do whatever their little hearts desire, no matter what effect it has on their children, as long as I get my money and it doesn't cross that line of neglect or abuse. To heck with the children! Let's just sacrifice the children's NEEDS for the sake of the parents' COMFORT, DESIRES, and WANTS! After all, they matter so much more than the children.
  #73  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:46 PM
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i haven't read all of the posts, but for the record - i don't give a DAMN what anyone thinks about me. my children both went to daycare when they were six weeks old and i don't make excuses nor apologize for it. i did NOT want to stay at home 24/7 and if you think being a working mom by choice = bad mom then you are stupid.

other than being in daycare while i was working, my kids have spent FOUR days away from me and my husband their entire life. once again, if you think that's selfish then you are stupid.

i'm on vacation RIGHT NOW at the beach. my husband and kids are asleep cus we spent 12 hours straight at the beach and the pool - even had meals delivered to us there.

would my kids make a sighing sound if they knew he and i were taking a weekend trip alone somewhere? PROBABLY! that doesn't mean they are poor little neglected kids. it means they are KIDS and that's what kids do.

as i said before, what's different about parents that have "date nights" once a week or once a month and parents who DON'T have date nights but then take a vacation?

i went on a vacation with my daughter when she was 4 for a week and left my husband and son behind. was i being a bad mom/wife to my son and husband - or a good mom to my daughter?

you're damned if you do and damned if you don't so it doesn't matter. if you're happy having your kids attached to your hip 24/7/365 then good for you. i'm sure you don't like when people say your kids are "sheltered" and unable to adjust in the real world. btw, i've said it before - kids who have never been away from their parents or gone to preschool are the WORST when they start school. you're not doing them any favors.

my goal for my children is for them to be INDEPENDENT adults and i really don't think spending a week away from them every 5 years or so is a bad thing IF that's your goal. when i took my 4 day trip, my kids were happy to talk to me on the phone and were asking if i was having fun! they didn't care because we have a SECURE relationship and they knew i was coming back. it's really NOT that big of a deal.

now, if someone goes to the beach every year and their kids have never ever been - then i would think that was sad. my kids can't even pick out a toy at the store cus they have them all and they EXPECT to go on vacation - so i don't see how it's "selfish" to take a few days away from them. some of you claim you're only talking about ppl who leave their kids in daycare while they go, but it's obvious as the conversation progressed that you believe kids should be stuck up your ass 365 days a year for 18 years. good luck with having independent, self sufficient adults!
  #74  
Old 07-29-2010, 04:17 AM
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FYI...one of the reasons why I do not have families like what has been mentioned, is becasue I simply refuse to enroll a family when it is clearly obvious that a parent is so self-involved that they will "neglect" their children so that can have or do whatever they want. I actually sent a parent away during an interview one time and told her I am sorry but I will not be able to work with you. It was awkward, but I KNOW I avoided alot of drama by doing it.

I interview potential clients, just as they interview me. I have become a very good judge of character over the years and I simply will not enroll a family who does not have close to the same philosophy of care as I do. Not exactly the same, because I am willing to see things from others perespectives, but pretty close or the daycare relationship would be stressful and I am not going to add stress to my day.
Crystal here's the harm you are doing: You are making it sound like there is a way to interview this out of parents. There's some formula you use to be able to tell whether or not the parent has the same "philosophy of care". You attribute your ability to weed these guys out with your "judge of character".

You wrote this not so long ago: My "study" was conducted in my own program. I know the children who have behavioral issues in my program, so I began observing more closely. Not only did I observe them in my program, and I did not only observe them. I observed their parents. I started noticing a trend...the children with behavior issues are the ones whose Mom always pulls up talking on the cell phone, and pulls out while talking on the cell phone. They're the children whose Mom's and Dad's take personal days off and don't spend one extra minute of that time off with their children. They're the children whose parents have the most electronic gadgets in the home and the ones whose parents barely have two words to say to them at pick up time, who never ask me about how their child's day was but wanna gossip about work while brushing their child off of their pantleg. They're the children whose parents dread hearing about their child's day, because they know what I am going to say. In essence, they are the children of self-absorbed, self-important parents.

YOU wrote this. YOU enrolled those parents into care after YOUR judgement of character. You have been doing this for a very long time and this was pretty recent. Have you JUST now developed the ability to interview this out?

Then you tell us you got a Mom putting her kid in day care twice a month when she is off work so she can run errands and "get things done" that are easier to do without the kid.

YOU CAN'T INTERVIEW THIS OUT. Not even YOU have the ability to see this before it happens. You can suggest that we need to dump these parents who are like this but you keep them. You just tell yourself it's okay for them to do it because everybody needs a little time now and then. 24 days a year of me time isn't a little time. It's nearly five working weeks of time a year when the kid is away from their parents. It's WORSE than a parent taking a week of vacation without their kids. It's five times worse.

I think you have a lot to offer but I also think you can do a lot of harm. Experienced providers can tell when you are stating something that doesn't make sense but inexperienced providers will get the idea that there really IS a way to avoid this by "judgement" or "interviewing it out" or "talking to them about philosophy" and being able to tell from their words on philosophy whether or not they are the ones to keep their kid in day care when they don't really need it just so they can have "me" time.

You are implying that once they are in your care that the parents ... knowing your "philosophy" are going to be right upfront with you and tell you the days they are not working.

The truth is that if you are going to build a business on clients who only used day care when they really needed it for work or medical emergencies and kept their kid with them the vast MAJORITY of their time off... told you when they were off of work for a me day but still bringing the kid... and paid their slot regardless of attendance... you would be out of business pretty darn quick. You would have a next to impossible time in this generation of parents finding an entire group of parents who did this thru the years of caring for their kids.

This is an open forum and I know there is a certain "advertising" element in this when posters make it easy for the reader to know who they are IRL. It feels like to me you are more towards advertising you and your business here where the majority of us are just using it for support and guidance.

Buyer beware using advertising as guidance.
  #75  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:29 AM
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doesnt matter who's side i agree with, fact is, if parents didnt bring their kids to daycare, i would be out of a job.

thats all i got to say about that....
  #76  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:45 AM
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i haven't read all of the posts, but for the record - i don't give a DAMN what anyone thinks about me. my children both went to daycare when they were six weeks old and i don't make excuses nor apologize for it. i did NOT want to stay at home 24/7 and if you think being a working mom by choice = bad mom then you are stupid.
No one ever said that being a working mom = bad mom. You are just taking other people’s words and twisting them. My guess is that, subconsciously, you feel guilty, so you take offense to anyone saying that children need to be with their parents as much as possible. As I have said over and over, if the child needs to be in daycare for the parents to WORK, then it’s a situation of “you have to do what you have to do.” That is why we are here as daycare providers, to support those who need it. There is a BIG difference between that and using daycare as a backup when the parent just doesn’t feel like being a parent that day or week, turn around and go home to “rest” or take a vacation.

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other than being in daycare while i was working, my kids have spent FOUR days away from me and my husband their entire life. once again, if you think that's selfish then you are stupid.
That is exactly the situation that I completely support. As you said, they were with you EXCEPT when you were at work. That’s what I like to hear – parents who spend as much time as possible, outside of work, with their children. Therefore, I do not understand why you are so defensive. Nothing I ever said was directed at parents like you.

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as i said before, what's different about parents that have "date nights" once a week or once a month and parents who DON'T have date nights but then take a vacation?
Once a week? Seriously. After spending 50+ hours away from your kids? How about a date night with your kids to “reconnect” with them too? Sure everyone needs a night away from the kids – but once a week? And most of the parents I know in my personal life (not the daycare families) have date nights once every 6-8 weeks (if they’re lucky) and take those after the kids are in bed and never take a vacation without the kids until the kids are at least 5 years old. So, it’s not an either / or situation. The ones who take date nights once a week are also the ones who take week long vacations away from their kids.

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i went on a vacation with my daughter when she was 4 for a week and left my husband and son behind. was i being a bad mom/wife to my son and husband - or a good mom to my daughter?
You left your son in the care of his FATHER. That’s not the same as pawning him off to a family member or stranger. He was still with one of his parents. Again, you’re comparing apples to oranges.

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i'm sure you don't like when people say your kids are "sheltered" and unable to adjust in the real world. btw, i've said it before - kids who have never been away from their parents or gone to preschool are the WORST when they start school. you're not doing them any favors.
Really, where’s your research to back that up. I had my mom the entire time during my formative years and on my first day of kindergarten, I was excited and thrilled to go and learn and meet new friends. I never shed a tear. My DD, who will be 2 tomorrow, has never cried when I had to leave her with her dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle, aunt, or cousin. Although I have never taught her how to be gentle and kind to animals, she is and has always been. She pets them gently and lovingly. She has never been violent toward any of the daycare kids in my care, even though THEY have hit her and bit her. She walks right up to other people and tries to hand them a toy as an offer of friendship. She is the sweetest child I have ever seen. She sees time away from mom and dad as an adventure, not a traumatic event. It does not evoke fear of permanent loss, like it did in so many of my past daycare kids. Separation anxiety has never been an issue with my DD. I guess that’s what you call being “unable to adjust in the real world.”

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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
my goal for my children is for them to be INDEPENDENT adults and i really don't think spending a week away from them every 5 years or so is a bad thing IF that's your goal. when i took my 4 day trip, my kids were happy to talk to me on the phone and were asking if i was having fun! they didn't care because we have a SECURE relationship and they knew i was coming back. it's really NOT that big of a deal. .
My goal is to also raise strong independent children. But I also know that the foundation of that is to provider a solid, secure sense of security and attachment to others, starting with the first relationship they have ever, or will ever encounter, the parent / child relationship. If you are only taking a vacation every 5 years, then you are not the type of parent any of us were talking about. We were talking about the ones that always use their vacations as “get-aways” from their kids after spending very little time with them in the first place.

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but it's obvious as the conversation progressed that you believe kids should be stuck up your ass 365 days a year for 18 years. good luck with having independent, self sufficient adults!
When did anyone every say that parents should be with their kids 365 days a year for 18 years? All I ever said was “as much as possible” during the formative years and that once the children are school-age separate vacations are more acceptable (because they can go to camp, grandma’s, friends’, etc.). How does THAT translate into 365 days a year for 18 years? Oddly, I have found that when people overexaggerate, it's usually for the same reason that other people resort to using derogatory language.

And here’s a question, especially for QualiTcare: since when did it become a BAD thing to spend as much time as possible taking care of your own children and being an at-home mom during their FORMATIVE YEARS? From the way you are talking, a child who is NOT in daycare is less of a person and less prepared for the “real world” than children in daycare? Please, please, please show me the studies, statistics, and/or research on this! Because every piece of research I have seen says the EXACT OPPOSITE. I never said you, or parents like you are bad parents. But you are definitely getting hostile toward parents who are parenting their children themselves and staying home to do it. You made it sound like parents like me (at-home moms) are hindering our children in some way.

If that’s what you must tell yourself so you feel better, then go ahead and live in that self-imposed world of delusions.
  #77  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:02 AM
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A provider down the street from me has a teacher's child in care...Mom's at home all summer long...guess where the kids are???

Yup, 50+ hours a week in care.
Yup and I think this will become a very common trend.

Providers have always had to juggle the "teachers kid" thing of figuring out how to charge them and how to retain them without loosing three months of salary on the kids.

I think soon enough you will see that teachers who want only school time care will be less and less. I also think it will become very common for first born kids to be in day care the majority if not all of the maternity leave for the second kid. That's really common now. It didn't used to be. It used to be that you would know once baby number two came along that you would have six... eight weeks with loss of income on kid one. Now it's pretty common for the kid one to stay in care the entire time.

It's always done under the "he needs to stay in his routine... he wants his friends... it gives me TIME to spend with the new baby... etc. Truth is that it's NOT that hard to take care of a newborn and one toddler. It's OKAY if kids go out of day care for two months and go back. They don't MISS their friends. I've never met a kid who wouldn't want to be home with Mom for two months with their new baby sibling rather than be at the same day care they have been going to full time day after day for ten hours a day for two years. OF COURSE THEY WANT TO BE WITH THEIR MOTHER!!!

Caring for multiple kids while caring for your newborn has been done for THOUSANDS of years but this generation of parents can put words on it that make it seem okay AND in the best interest of the kid but deep down.. we all know the truth. It's not in anyones best interest except for the parents.

Your teachers decision to have them in day care all summer is not in their best interest. It's in the parents best interest. Chances are she has her self convinced it's okay and having a society where we keep slamming parents with "you NEED time to yourself" "It's QUALITY time not quantity time"... "your a better parent if you take care of YOURSELF".. blah blah.

Now we have kids in care for three months who have a parent who is OFF of work.
  #78  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:58 AM
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I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you. It's pretty simple really. If you do not like the parent because they tend to be selfish, then why do you still work with them? Honestly, if I had families who took regular days off and always left their child with me, or took regular vacations without their child and their child NEVER got a family vacation, I would tell the parent how I felt and let the chips fall where they may. Of course, I don't have families like this and I can be very open, honest and forthcoming with my families when there is a REAL issue, I guess I have been very lucky, because I just don't have these types of issues.

Now, I am NOT saying that parents SHOULD spend their vacation time without their children....(I would never do that sort of thing, my kids have been on a minimum of three family vacations per year with me and my husband since they were very small, and they have seen many parts of our great country and me and hubby have been away for the weekend three times in 19 years without the kids.) BUT, as I have said before, these are not OUR children, and we don't live in their households to realize WHY parents may need that time away, (it could be many things, stress being one of them) so honestly, it's none of our business. Our business is to provide a quality, loving environment AWAY from the child's home and parent, not to mind the business of the parents or to be the parent.
I have a question. If you are so set against parents who do not spend all of their paid time off with their children, and they disgust you to the point of making a huge issue of it on an open forum, then why do you not terminate those families and enroll ONLY families with the same philosophy of care as you.

Here I'll answer it for you. I had a policy for about the first 14 years I did day care that I would not care for children when their parents weren't working. I interviewed each parent and they signed a contract saying they would not bring their kid if they weren't working.

They willingly signed it... parent after parent. Why? Because the vast majority of kids I took into my day care were newborns. When Mom is home with a baby for six weeks... eight weeks... twelve weeks.. they are still madly in love with their baby. They've had time when they didn't have to work and could devote their all to their kids. Most were upset at having to go back to work. They couldn't even IMAGINE having their kid in day care a minute longer than they HAD to.

They all cried on the first day... second day... sometimes for three or four days. After a few weeks in care their lives change. They are back in the real world and they see how much easier it is to not have their kid. They get back into the groove of having to work for someone and for the first time have to balance being a worker and a parent. It's way harder to do it then when you are home for the first few months... being able to nap... being able to get stuff done... being able to have family help... friends over... then BAM into the real world.

For the first few months they are pretty good about it. Then the kid starts to crawl. As soon as the kid is mobile everything changes. As soon as it's HARD to care for them... hard to get stuff done... hard to pull them in and out of a carseat...way less napping and when they get napping it's almost always cat napping.. WAY more awake time... THAT'S when the mindset starts to creep in that they will just do a little of this and a little of that before they pick the kid up. They will go to this appointment without the kid... cuz it's "better" for the kid if they just stay in their routine and not be disrupted.

Once the kid starts crawling and then walking you get a lot less offers of assistance. People who were all about helping you now have stuff to do. Now they know your kid staying with them is going to be work. If you have a kid who has to be held, walked, rocked in order to be happy you will have few offers to help you out.

So.. the out is day care. That's the one place you can take them and have time off. It starts with a little bit of running here and there and a few months later it's all day every day you have off. Instead of using an occasional time where the hours are extended either before or after day care... those occasional turn into EVERY day. Those odd hours are THE hours your kid is in care.

As the kid gets older it gets even harder. With the current discipline methods being so limited and ineffective you have parents who can't see to do anything but let the kid rule. The more the kid rules the less the parents like being around them.

Now... you can't see this when you are interviewing a Mom with a few weeks of parenting under her belt. You can't determine their "philosophy" because what they know about caring for their kid is SO limited and NOT based on hard. They have all sorts of ideas about how they will do this and they wouldn't even CONSIDER having the kid away from them if they didn't HAVE to but the truth is the parent they see when they look in the mirror when they are newbie parent RARELY reflects the parent they will see a year from now.

You can tell a LOT more about parents when they have some time under their belts. I don't take kids this age anymore as all my kids come in as newborns/infants. I quit offering slots to older kids because I couldn't find older kids who didn't come to me with a huge host of behavior problems. The parenting philosophy I see is for the most part not good. Now and then a good one would come along but you have a LOT better chance of integrating a baby into your care regardless of the parents "philosophy" because you have them young and without a ton of bad habits.

I think you are doing a HUGE disservice to providers to suggest you have some formula, experience, draw, or judgment that can weed out parents who shun their kids when they are off of work. I don't believe it. I don't believe it one bit. I know from your writings that it's not true. I think you have decided that it's okay for them to do it because you KNOW you can't stay in business if you don't allow it.

I'm right there with ya on that. I had the policy for 14 years that I didn't allow kids in day care if the parent wasn't working and all I got was 14 years of deceit. I had some that abided by it I think.. but I can never really know. I finally gave up on it and don't even bring it up now. I can find parents that pay on time... pick up on time.. drop off on time.. send their kids in clean clothes... feed healthy food at home... give me a whopping big fat bonus and a nice weekly check... but I can't find a full GROUP of parents who keep their kids home when they are off of work. I gave it the hardest try a provider could in the first fourteen years I did day care and I finally surrendered. I finally came to the conclusion that there is NO market for day care where you keep your kid in day care only when you NEED it to go to work especially if the price is the same whether you use it or not.

That's what you do too... you just call it something else. You call it picking the right parents I call it business survival.

Last edited by Michael; 07-31-2010 at 12:28 PM.
  #79  
Old 07-29-2010, 07:21 AM
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As mandated reporters, it IS our job to care. Even if it does NOT rise to the level of "legal" neglect. But your comment insinuated that as long as they pay you, you will keep your eyes and ears shut and your mouth zipped. It sounded a little like "it doesn't matter what they do as long as I get my money." I AM NOT quoting you, I said it SOUNDED LIKE. So do NOT take my words and twist them like you have already tried to do. Again, even though it does NOT rise to a reportable offense, it is still neglect in my book, whether you agree with it or not. And the research backs up the FACT that the more hours a child is away from his/her parents, the worse the damage and long-term consequences are. But if you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's "none of your business" and "not your problem", go right ahead.

Frankly, I don't get why this is even an issue. We are talking about young children. They need their parents during the formative years. Period. The research has been done to death on it and it is conclusive. Period. End of story. I just don't get how anyone can defend, let alone support, parents WANTING to be away from their children as much as they can possibly get away or stay away.

But I guess you will continue to misquote me, twist my words around and, and defend your position until your dying breath. So I guess to end this "argument" I should just concede to YOUR position and agree that parents should be able to do whatever their little hearts desire, no matter what effect it has on their children, as long as I get my money and it doesn't cross that line of neglect or abuse. To heck with the children! Let's just sacrifice the children's NEEDS for the sake of the parents' COMFORT, DESIRES, and WANTS! After all, they matter so much more than the children.
I guess the problem here is that you are reading my words how YOU want to and I'm reading your words how I want to. That's the problem with the internet. I've never said "To heck with the children" or anything to that sort. I said that if they want to take a dang vacation without their children it's not my business. Once a year vacation is NOT going to hurt the child...at least the ones in my care. They are thriving, smart, children whose parents spend quality time with them. That's the kind of parents I chose to care for. They are my friends and I will defend them.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:26 AM
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I keep reading posts about how going on a date every 6-8 weeks is sufficient and once a week is too much. Ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high? If I only had alone time (outside the bedroom) with my husband once every 2 months...we'd for sure need a vacation without kids! You have to focus on your marriage too!
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:33 AM
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What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:04 AM
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Nannyde, I love your explanations! You truly "get it". When you described older children being in daycare while mom is on maternity leave, bonding with the newborn, I really get it. My DD will be 2 tomorrow! I'm due with twins in late Nov / early Dec (hoping to make it to Nov since twins usually come early). We decided to try for #2 when DD started to show signs of being "big sisterly" to my younger DC kids. Before then, we were concerned about how SHE would handle having to share mom and dad 24/7. It wasn't just when WE were ready. It was about her as well. When we found out I was pregnant, we were hoping for a water birth at home with a midwife, just so DD could be there immediately to meet her new brother or sister. Studies have shown that the sooner they meet, the closer their bond. Plus, I wanted the new baby to be OUR (DH, DD, and my) baby, not just mommy and daddy's baby. Although I am thrilled we are having twins, it does break my heart that I will be in the hospital (probably with a c-section) and she won't be able to be more of a part of it. But I want her with us at home when we bring the twins home. I have always thought that it would be FAMILY bonding time. For the past 5 months, DD has been kissing my belly and saying "baby" while pointing to my belly. She already loves being a big sis, even if she's not fully aware of what it means. I also ask her "where are YOUR babies?" and she points to my belly. The twins are not just mine and daddy's, they are hers too.

Sure, I need time to bond with the babies, but so does my DD. We want to spend as much time all together as we can during those first few weeks and months, especially sine it will right around Thankgiving and Christmas. Plus, my mom and MIL will be around to help. I love the idea that both grandmas, DD, the twin girls, and I will all be there to bond and our common girlness. Three women, a toddler, and 2 babies - what a celebration! Oh, yeah, there will also be daddy, grandpa and an uncle, too.

I guess I just think of bringing a new baby (or babies) into the family as an addition for the WHOLE family, not just the parents. But, I have to balance that with the fact that I will have help. I'm sure some don't. But new babies sleep A LOT. And women have been doing it sine the begining of time, so what makes it so impossible now, in 2010?

Now, I know some people will twist this around to make me out to be self-righteous and holier-than-thou. But, once again, it is only my thoughts and feelings for my own family. Even if someone has a different view point, that's ok. I am NOT saying my way is RIGHT or the ONLY way, just that I can't imagine it being any different.

Plus, what Nannyde said about the older kids wanting to be home with mom is so true, but I have also seen where the older kids want to be home with the new baby too. Children are in awe of new babies. They like to try to feed the baby, change them, hold them, rock them, etc. It's a great time for them to learn about babies and bond with the new little bundle, instead of resenting him or her.

Also, when you described the stages of modern motherhood from new mom to school-ager mom, you hit the nail on the head. Personally, I think many people WANT to have babies and children, but get overwhelmed by exactly how hard it is to really do the job. Just like home ownership seems great until you realize that you have at least twice as many utility bills, have to mow the lawn, shovel the walk, etc. There's a lot more work involved than what people realize.

I just feel bad for the kids that spend 10+ hours away from their parent every day, then the parents claim they need a "break" from them. I have actually seen parents who do not interact or talk to their children and instead opt for talking on the cell phone, almost every time they came to pick up their children. I even tried to implement a no cell phone policy at one point. Is it that hard to give your own child a hug and kiss after being away from him or her for 10 or more hours?
  #83  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Sadly, yes, it is becoming the norm.
Should it be the "norm"? NO! Is the "norm" always the "right"? NO!
Do their kids pick up on this? YES! Will their kids grow up to understand that their parents really didn't want to spend time with them? YES!
Is this selfish parenting? ABSOLUTELY!
No its not selfish parenting at all. In fact taking time to focus on one another is often in the best intersted of the kids. Lots of studies show that parents who take the time to connect with one another have a much better family dynamic than those who do not. Unfortently the OP was not refercing what you are throughout the entire post. She is asking about a vacation. Nothing is mentioned about weeks upon weeks like you are assume.

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Originally Posted by tmcp2001 View Post
! Another thing - since when is it a bad thing for children to have other adults love and care for them occasionally? I'm so incredibly thankful to have my parents, sisters, in-laws and sisters-in-law and yes, when I was working our DCP, around to help us with our four children! I think my kids are incredibly lucky to be growing up so close to their extended family!


It is actually quite healthy for children to see how other people live. It only contiunes to foster their ideas of familys and what a family means, and what a family does. Want examples. Look at children who are taken from their parents and placed into foster care...and yes My family has had real life experice on this end as my parents are foster parents. The kids have contacted my parents and made comments about how they learend how to truly be a family and what it means....While they didnt come from the worst of worst home, they realized what a true family is.

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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Let's face it. What we ALL know we are talking about here are parents who have 4,6,8 or even more PAID vacation weeks a year and never, ever spend a single one of those days with their kids but dump them in daycare instead. We all see it all the time these days.
I DO think there CAN be a balance but I'm personally not seeing that balance. Here's what I see happening.....
Parents are on paid vacation and decide to stay home but bring their kids to daycare every...single...day of that time off from the minute the provider opens to the minute they close.
Parents on paid vacation who chose to go away. They leave the kids with grandma for the week and grandma brings the kids to daycare all week long.
hell, now I even see parents with two weeks off over CHRISTMAS who bring their kids every freaking day the provider is open. I mean, seriously, if you can't even spend time with your kids on what, for them, is one of the most magical times of childhood then yes, I WILL deem them selfish.
As with anything in life no one falls into the 100% category of anything. But there are PLENTY of parents out there who fall into the 99% category.
I have had kids in care whose parents pay on time, are never late, follow the policies, would NEVER think to send their kid sick to care. But those SAME parents (whom any provider would thank their lucky stars to have) never, in the 3 or 4 years their kids were in care spent a SINGLE vacation day with them.Now, how is THAT not selfish?I think that what people HERE on this forum need to remember is that for the most part, because we stay at home with our kids WE see the importance of our PRESENCE in their daily lives. We do NOT fall into the 99% club.
Sorry lady, but you dont know my families nor how I run my daycare. My families first off dont get that large amounts of vacation. In fact one company pulled all paid vacation and told them if they want one, they get it unpaid. Can they afford taking an unpaid vacation? Nope they sure cant.

Should the single mom who ended up being put on medical leave for 6 weeks for an issue have not brought her kid to daycare and stayed home with her. Absolutly she should have...it was in her best intersted to get healthy and stable in order to get everything back into order. Did she bring her to daycare...... yes. Had she not brought her she would not be where is right now. She is currently on vacation with her child in another state.

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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Because most people have fragile egos. They care about other people's opinions of them and therefore assume, wrongly most of the time, that any comment is therefore directed at them. Then they get defensive.
SO its okay to start name calling? Judy I thought we were all adults talking about our opinnions here.

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Originally Posted by emosks View Post
It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families. I guess we are just so blessed to have such awesome families that are nothing like what you all describe.

I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking?
I agree and if we dont agree with their thoughts than we dont know anything..

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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Okay, so no research then. Gotcha!
You failed to provide your own. You mention others work they have shown but not your own...interesting.

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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
And then you came and made it personal about YOU. It wasn't about YOU. YOU made it that way.
Emosks did not make her postings herself at all. She simply was stating an example that happend in her daycare...GET OVER YOUR SELF your using your situtaion as basis for all and thats not how it is sorry.

Last edited by Michael; 08-04-2010 at 05:13 PM.
  #84  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:12 AM
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What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.
I happen to have shut down due to a bed rest order from my OB regarding my high risk twin pregnancy. Now, I really can't speak for others, but prior to shutting down, I would post during nap times (if there was time after all the cleaning, prepping for the PM, and paperwork was done) or after the bedtime (8pm), or on days I did not have DC kids. So, no one was paying me to be on here and NOT do my job. And I agree, while you have DC kids who are awake, they (or we) shouldn't be on here posting. But thank you so much for assuming that we are posting with kids running around the house with us ignoring them.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by emosks View Post
I keep reading posts about how going on a date every 6-8 weeks is sufficient and once a week is too much. Ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high? If I only had alone time (outside the bedroom) with my husband once every 2 months...we'd for sure need a vacation without kids! You have to focus on your marriage too!
Did you know that marriages where parents focus only on the children for the childhood years are 3x's as likly to divorice than those who dont take the time to focus on one another during this time. Yes there is data that proves this.

Also someone pointed out their priorites order (god parenting, marriage) and how proud they were about having their children spend very little time outside of them...Im sorry but biblically thats not what the bible teaches. The bible actually states that we should put God first, Marriage Second and third our children.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:29 AM
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What are all your daycare children doing while you are all on the computer posting about what bad parents people are for not spending every waking moment in the company of their children? Do these bad parents realize that they are paying you to do this? Just curious.
They were upstairs making their lunch while I was on the internet.

But if you must know...there are 3 of us that work here and I jump on the board when I'm updating kids sheets or doing other office work or during nap time. Thanks for your concern though!
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:33 AM
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No one ever said that being a working mom = bad mom. You are just taking other people’s words and twisting them. My guess is that, subconsciously, you feel guilty, so you take offense to anyone saying that children need to be with their parents as much as possible. As I have said over and over, if the child needs to be in daycare for the parents to WORK, then it’s a situation of “you have to do what you have to do.” That is why we are here as daycare providers, to support those who need it. There is a BIG difference between that and using daycare as a backup when the parent just doesn’t feel like being a parent that day or week, turn around and go home to “rest” or take a vacation.



That is exactly the situation that I completely support. As you said, they were with you EXCEPT when you were at work. That’s what I like to hear – parents who spend as much time as possible, outside of work, with their children. Therefore, I do not understand why you are so defensive. Nothing I ever said was directed at parents like you.



Once a week? Seriously. After spending 50+ hours away from your kids? How about a date night with your kids to “reconnect” with them too? Sure everyone needs a night away from the kids – but once a week? And most of the parents I know in my personal life (not the daycare families) have date nights once every 6-8 weeks (if they’re lucky) and take those after the kids are in bed and never take a vacation without the kids until the kids are at least 5 years old. So, it’s not an either / or situation. The ones who take date nights once a week are also the ones who take week long vacations away from their kids.



You left your son in the care of his FATHER. That’s not the same as pawning him off to a family member or stranger. He was still with one of his parents. Again, you’re comparing apples to oranges.



Really, where’s your research to back that up. I had my mom the entire time during my formative years and on my first day of kindergarten, I was excited and thrilled to go and learn and meet new friends. I never shed a tear. My DD, who will be 2 tomorrow, has never cried when I had to leave her with her dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle, aunt, or cousin. Although I have never taught her how to be gentle and kind to animals, she is and has always been. She pets them gently and lovingly. She has never been violent toward any of the daycare kids in my care, even though THEY have hit her and bit her. She walks right up to other people and tries to hand them a toy as an offer of friendship. She is the sweetest child I have ever seen. She sees time away from mom and dad as an adventure, not a traumatic event. It does not evoke fear of permanent loss, like it did in so many of my past daycare kids. Separation anxiety has never been an issue with my DD. I guess that’s what you call being “unable to adjust in the real world.”



My goal is to also raise strong independent children. But I also know that the foundation of that is to provider a solid, secure sense of security and attachment to others, starting with the first relationship they have ever, or will ever encounter, the parent / child relationship. If you are only taking a vacation every 5 years, then you are not the type of parent any of us were talking about. We were talking about the ones that always use their vacations as “get-aways” from their kids after spending very little time with them in the first place.



When did anyone every say that parents should be with their kids 365 days a year for 18 years? All I ever said was “as much as possible” during the formative years and that once the children are school-age separate vacations are more acceptable (because they can go to camp, grandma’s, friends’, etc.). How does THAT translate into 365 days a year for 18 years? Oddly, I have found that when people overexaggerate, it's usually for the same reason that other people resort to using derogatory language.

And here’s a question, especially for QualiTcare: since when did it become a BAD thing to spend as much time as possible taking care of your own children and being an at-home mom during their FORMATIVE YEARS? From the way you are talking, a child who is NOT in daycare is less of a person and less prepared for the “real world” than children in daycare? Please, please, please show me the studies, statistics, and/or research on this! Because every piece of research I have seen says the EXACT OPPOSITE. I never said you, or parents like you are bad parents. But you are definitely getting hostile toward parents who are parenting their children themselves and staying home to do it. You made it sound like parents like me (at-home moms) are hindering our children in some way.

If that’s what you must tell yourself so you feel better, then go ahead and live in that self-imposed world of delusions.
first of all, i don't need to tell myself anything in order to "feel better." i already said my kids went to daycare as infants and i don't feel bad nor apologize for it. i CHOOSE to work. i stopped doing daycare so i could go back to work in the "real world."

i guess i'm a bad parent because i choose to go to work away from home when my bills don't depend on it. people will say, "oh, no, that's not what i meant," but in other threads and repeatedly, it has been said, "i understand when both parents HAVE to work." which implies that if they don't absolutely HAVE to then it's wrong! i've also said before - why is a man that works 50,60,70 hours a week a "good man" and a "hard worker" but if the mother wants to work full time then she's "missing out" and "doesn't realize what she's missing."

the working v. stay at home mom debate is nothing new. it's been going on forever. there's nothing WRONG with staying at home with your kids if you WANT to just like there's nothing wrong with NOT staying at home if you DONT want to. neither side needs to justify themselves.

you'll notice though that a lot of stay at home moms are still stay at home moms when their kids are teenagers and are in school all day or even have jobs themselves. that does make me wonder about the "not wanting to miss any time" excuse. i DO think there are a lot of women that just don't want to work and it makes them look better to say they want to be there for the kids.

Last edited by Michael; 08-04-2010 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
No its not selfish parenting at all. In fact taking time to focus on one another is often in the best intersted of the kids. Lots of studies show that parents who take the time to connect with one another have a much better family dynamic than those who do not. Unfortently the OP was not refercing what you are throughout the entire post. She is asking about a vacation. Nothing is mentioned about weeks upon weeks like you are assume. .
And the only way to connect with your SO or spouse is to take a week long vacation away from the children (I am ONLY talking about children under 5 years old – people. Do not blow this up again to mean 17 year old children)? Actually, statistics prove that couples that spend a little time each DAY or at least each WEEK re-connecting have the healthiest relationships. Some things that are cited as the best predictors of long term marital success: does your spouse give you a kiss goodbye? Hello? Do you give each other a compliment at least 3 times a week (preferably every day)? Do you talk about things other than money, kids, and chores? These are just a FEW ways to stay connected. And it’s much easier to STAY connected on a daily basis than RE-CONNECT a couple times a year or even once a month. You don’t need a fancy restaurant, a hotel, or a beach for that. Just open your mouth and TALK to your spouse. Communication is the key, not a vacation.

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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
It is actually quite healthy for children to see how other pepole live. It only contiunes to foster their ideas of familys and what a family means, and what a family does. Want examples. Look at children who are taken from their parents and placed into foster care...and yes My family has had real life experice on this end as my parents are foster parents. The kids have contacted my parents and made comments about how they learend how to truly be a family and what it means....While they didnt come from the worst of worst home, they realized what a true family is.
And that is what the extended family, our church family, and our friends’ families are for. Do you honestly think that the only way to learn about other family structures is without mom and dad present?

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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
Should the single mom who ended up being put on medical leave for 6 weeks for an issue have not brought her kid to daycare and stayed home with her. Absolutly she should have...it was in her best intersted to get healthy and stable in order to get everything back into order. Did she bring her to daycare...... yes. Had she not brought her she would not be where is right now. She is currently on vacation with her child in another state.
When did anyone say this would not be acceptable? Obviously if a parent is in ill health the child needs to be cared for by someone else. This is NOT the example given by the OP. As you so eloquently advised Judy to do – stay on topic, don’t go running off reading more into it and making up other scenarios.


[quote=actaktmdt;38399]
Quote:
Originally Posted by emosks View Post
It sounds to me like most of you who do talk about parents like this need to find a new profession...or new families. I guess we are just so blessed to have such awesome families that are nothing like what you all describe.

I forget....you and a few others on the board are always right! DUH! What was I thinking? QUOTE]

I agree and if we dont agree with their thoughts than we dont know anything..
No one ever said that you don’t know anything or that you’re “stupid” as one poster tried to claim some people (possibly me) are. Funny, how if someone doesn’t agree with YOU or those with your opinion, then she is (or I am) told to “find a new profession” and told that we are judgmental or stupid. You have every right in the world to have your opinion and I do not fault you for it. But I do have a right to my opinion as well – respect THAT. I never said that I’m a better mom because I do this or that. I simply stated that I am proud that I have been with my child for most of her life and she is never in the care of non-relatives. Instead of “good for you” or “I wish I could do that”, some people got defensive. Heaven help me if I mention I have a college degree. They might think I’m arrogant and shouldn’t BRAG or be proud of the hard work and dedication I put into things. Sorry for having a moment of pride.


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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
You failed to provide you own you mention others work they have shown but not your own...intersting.
Actually, she did in another thread, that same day. Go check it all out. I think the title is “modern parenting”. So, checkmate – Judy (and sometimes I) do give CITED research references. Have you or anyone who supports your position? Hmmmm…


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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
Emosks did not make her postings herself at all. She simply was stating an example that happend in her daycare...GET OVER YOUR SELF your using your situtaion as basis for all and thats not how it is sorry.
Again, Judy DID use outside research that she posted in a different thread. So SHE was not relying just on personal experience. She backed up what she said. Did you? Did any of those who agree with you? Again, hmmmm…
  #89  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:07 PM
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Funny, how if someone doesn’t agree with YOU or those with your opinion, then she is (or I am) told to “find a new profession” and told that we are judgmental or stupid. You have every right in the world to have your opinion and I do not fault you for it. But I do have a right to my opinion as well – respect THAT. I never said that I’m a better mom because I do this or that. I simply stated that I am proud that I have been with my child for most of her life and she is never in the care of non-relatives. Instead of “good for you” or “I wish I could do that”, some people got defensive. Heaven help me if I mention I have a college degree. They might think I’m arrogant and shouldn’t BRAG or be proud of the hard work and dedication I put into things. Sorry for having a moment of pride.
I don't think it's that we don't respect your opinions...but I personally felt like she was telling me that my families are liars when she has no clue who they are!

My comment about finding a new profession wasn't because I don't like your opinion. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. There is just a lot of parent bashing that happens here so it makes me wonder if you (meaning the person complaining/hating/etc on parents) is truly happy doing daycare. And FWIW...there are 3 Bachelor's and 2 Master's degrees behind this user name.

Bottom line is this. If there weren't parents "dumping" their kids at daycare...we'd all be out of a job.

I happen to L-O-V-E my job, my DCK, my DC families. Love it. I look forward to each and every day with them. You won't find me on here complaining about them on an open forum especially where they can come read it themselves!!
  #90  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:11 PM
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Did you know that marriages where parents focus only on the children for the childhood years are 3x's as likly to divorice than those who dont take the time to focus on one another during this time. Yes there is data that proves this.
Citations to research, studies, etc. Everything I see says that couple do need to focus on their marriage, but it does not say to run off on week-long, child-free vacations. And every couple needs to spend time focusing on their marriage - that would be called common sense. But you can do that without a WEEK away from your children who are under 5 years of age. Put them to bed at 8pm and spend a couple hours with your spouse each night (and I'm not just talking physical stuff - talk to them, work together on a project, watch a movie, hold hands - anything!)

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Originally Posted by actaktmdt View Post
Also someone pointed out their priorites order (god parenting, marriage) and how proud they were about having their children spend very little time outside of them...Im sorry but biblically thats not what the bible teaches. The bible actually states that we should put God first, Marriage Second and third our children.
You are right that the marriage is to be second, but NOT at the sake of the children. Basically, you need to focus on all three. And they are very intertwined. And I highly doubt "marriage second and third our children" means dump the kids somewhere for a week-long vacation to re-connect with a spouse that you've been ignoring all year. That's where the "put the kids to bed at 8pm" part comes in. Then devote some time each day to your spouse and to God. But now we're using God and religion as excuses to spend less time with our children (again, only talking about the parents who are already away from their babies, toddlers, and preschoolers for 50+ hours a week).
  #91  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:13 PM
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This thread devolved into the mommy wars kind of quickly.

Wasn't there a thread a couple of days ago asking about why school-age girls are so catty?
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:27 PM
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This thread devolved into the mommy wars kind of quickly.

Wasn't there a thread a couple of days ago asking about why school-age girls are so catty?
Gee, I wonder where they get it from

I always tended to stay away from girl friends in school and HS and hung out with mostly boys doing boy things like fishing, skateboarding etc. I didn't like the ***bickering, backstabbing attitudes (and still don't). I'm lucky to have found a group of Ladies here at home who don't act this way, actually we act more like "the guys" than girls, and that's how I like it.

*** Please don't take this line to mean I think you ladies are all bickering backstabbers. I was just making a general statement about cattiness.
  #93  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:31 PM
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I don't think it's that we don't respect your opinions...but I personally felt like she was telling me that my families are liars when she has no clue who they are!

My comment about finding a new profession wasn't because I don't like your opinion. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. There is just a lot of parent bashing that happens here so it makes me wonder if you (meaning the person complaining/hating/etc on parents) is truly happy doing daycare. And FWIW...there are 3 Bachelor's and 2 Master's degrees behind this user name.

Bottom line is this. If there weren't parents "dumping" their kids at daycare...we'd all be out of a job.

I happen to L-O-V-E my job, my DCK, my DC families. Love it. I look forward to each and every day with them. You won't find me on here complaining about them on an open forum especially where they can come read it themselves!!
Ok, finally a post I can work with. I think what you describe as "parent bashing" is just very loving parents and providers who are appalled by some of the actions of some parents. I never referred to parents as "dumping" their kids in daycare, like the parents were just sitting at home, unemployed. Most kids are in daycare because the parent HAS to work and it's not a choice that they relish. My concern was ONLY for the poor babies and toddlers that are already in daycare for 50+ hours a week, then the parents (sadly, it's usually the moms) are begging family and friends to watch the kid on the weekends (so they can go out and have fun) and then they say they need a break and take a week long vacation in another state.

I loved doing daycare. I loved that my DCKs had me to take care of them and give them hugs and kisses when mommy HAD to be at work. I felt bad for them because they didn't get to spend as much time with mom as they wanted. I loved that they also had my husband in the evenings to play with, since most of them didn't have dads in their lives. I felt like I was giving them a second family. I loved them so much and I ached for those precious little babies and toddlers who didn't understand why mom would disappear for a whole week. The child would cry. I would cry. And for what? So mom could go to Las Vegas (or whereever) to party, drink, gamble, meet men, etc? It was never a judgment on anyone on here. It was the immense sadness for kids in those type of situations, which I have tried to express and state over and over again. But somehow it kept getting stretched into meaning that no child should ever be out of the mother's care for even a second until age 18.

Truth be told - I can't wait until my kids are old enough to say, "Can we go to grandma's lakehouse this summer?" When they do, I promise you, I will be booking that honeymoon cruise that DH and I never got. Until then, we spend a little time each day on "us" and focus the rest on raising our DD (soon to be 3 girls). Oh, and the kids will probably not know that we are slipping away for a vacation while they are on their fun filled adventure with grandma and grandpa.
  #94  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:46 PM
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My concern was ONLY for the poor babies and toddlers that are already in daycare for 50+ hours a week, then the parents (sadly, it's usually the moms) are begging family and friends to watch the kid on the weekends (so they can go out and have fun) and then they say they need a break and take a week long vacation in another state.
This! This is what I abhor. My niece is in a situation like this...unfortunately. My brother works 60+ hours a week to pay child support. He takes my niece whenever he has time. The mom...on the other hand, is a piece of work. On her weekends (they share during the week and do every other weekend), if my brother doesn't take her she gets pissed and starts hollering, then I get a phone call to which I always give in. If I do not take her, I know the mom will dump her somewhere, and this poor girl has been through way to damn much since she was born. Her environment has NEVER been stable with mom. Dad, yes....but not mom. Mom is too busy partying, sleeping around, drinking (and other substances), getting into fights with cops, going to jail.

What really upset me was, last weekend my Grandfather died. Niece never knew him. The mom called (on her weekend) my brother to ask if he was taking niece to the funeral, and when my brother said no...mom threw a tantrum. Brother gives in. During the funeral weekend, I notice mom posting on Facebook pics of her and her friends at a theme park, drinking and partying it up. This girl should not have custody....but the judge apparently thinks otherwise. Oh niece also spends approx. 50 hours in daycare during the summer.
  #95  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:02 PM
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And the only way to connect with your SO or spouse is to take a week long vacation away from the children (I am ONLY talking about children under 5 years old – people. Do not blow this up again to mean 17 year old children)? Actually, statistics prove that couples that spend a little time each DAY or at least each WEEK re-connecting have the healthiest relationships. Some things that are cited as the best predictors of long term marital success: does your spouse give you a kiss goodbye? Hello? Do you give each other a compliment at least 3 times a week (preferably every day)? Do you talk about things other than money, kids, and chores? These are just a FEW ways to stay connected. And it’s much easier to STAY connected on a daily basis than RE-CONNECT a couple times a year or even once a month. You don’t need a fancy restaurant, a hotel, or a beach for that. Just open your mouth and TALK to your spouse. Communication is the key, not a vacation.

Sure if thats possible. It may not be for all families...Parents may work multipule jobs or different shifts to be able to get by and pay their own bills. Its also important to spend more than a few minutes here and their with your spouse. We talking about both quality and quanity here.



And that is what the extended family, our church family, and our friends’ families are for. Do you honestly think that the only way to learn about other family structures is without mom and dad present?

yes because a child only knows what they are raised in and around 24/7.


When did anyone say this would not be acceptable? Obviously if a parent is in ill health the child needs to be cared for by someone else. This is NOT the example given by the OP. As you so eloquently advised Judy to do – stay on topic, don’t go running off reading more into it and making up other scenarios.

How do you know that the parents have an "ill marriage" that needs to be fixed? They arent allowed to get away to fix it between themselves sans kids. The kids need parents who are working together as a team.
No one ever said that you don’t know anything or that you’re “stupid” as one poster tried to claim some people (possibly me) are. Funny, how if someone doesn’t agree with YOU or those with your opinion, then she is (or I am) told to “find a new profession” and told that we are judgmental or stupid. You have every right in the world to have your opinion and I do not fault you for it. But I do have a right to my opinion as well – respect THAT. I never said that I’m a better mom because I do this or that. I simply stated that I am proud that I have been with my child for most of her life and she is never in the care of non-relatives. Instead of “good for you” or “I wish I could do that”, some people got defensive. Heaven help me if I mention I have a college degree. They might think I’m arrogant and shouldn’t BRAG or be proud of the hard work and dedication I put into things. Sorry for having a moment of pride.


No but it was made out to be that if one side doesnt agree with the other than well we just have fagile egos.....FWIW I also have a Bachlors Degree

Actually, she did in another thread, that same day. Go check it all out. I think the title is “modern parenting”. So, checkmate – Judy (and sometimes I) do give CITED research references. Have you or anyone who supports your position? Hmmmm…

Yes perhaps in another posting, but she didnt bring it here...there was no copy and paste.....the point was she wanted someone to bring info to her but couldnt bother bring the same info to this thread.

Last edited by Michael; 08-02-2010 at 03:16 PM.
  #96  
Old 07-30-2010, 03:13 PM
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Okay, I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but I did not feel well yesterday and did not have the energy to tackle this drama, but I am not going to sit by and look like I stopped responding because I feel defeated.

So:

ProMom, I said it once and I'll say it again, just to make sure you are aware _ I was KIDDING about my 12 and 17 year olds. TOTALLY being sarcastic. But I see you glossed over my explanation and continued to act like I was being ridiculous and over-exaggerating. WHATEVER.

Judy: I read your posts. And I understood them exactly as you stated them. You didn't say my parents lie to me. You said you do not believe me. Multiple times in one post you said that. Therefore, you are calling me a liar. And, as I explained, my parents DO tell me when they are off and leaving their kids here. I simply don't mind if they do.

ProMom- being a mandated reporter does not mean that you have to stick your nose into every bit of familial business in these children's lives. It means that if you suspect abuse or SERIOUS negelct, you are required to report it. I'd love to see a provider try to report a family for leaving their child in care while they run errands. They'd laugh you right off the phone.

nannyDe....well, I'll come back to you....you always manage to write a book when you post and there are so many comments/responses I need to share and I just do not have time right now.

Any others I missed that I should respond to, I'll get to later.

Last edited by Crystal; 07-30-2010 at 05:35 PM. Reason: typo
  #97  
Old 07-30-2010, 04:31 PM
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nannyDe....well, I'll come bck to you....you always manage to right a book when you post and there are so many comments/responses I need to share and I just do not have time right now.
Here I'll make it easy for ya

Riddle me this: Why are you suggesting that you have the ability to pick day care parents that do not use day care when they do not need day care on a REGULAR basis when in fact, you have current and past clients RECENTLY that do?

Now I saved you reading my book.
  #98  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:30 PM
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Okay Nanny...first, let me clarify. I did not say that I interview families and do not enroll those who would leave their children in care when they are not working. I said if YOU all have an issue with that, then you should not enroll clients who would do it. You can interview it out if you desire to. ( of course if you do that, then who will you have to talk crap about?)You simply ask a parent what their philosophy of parenting is....you can even give them a list of questions and insist they answer them, IF it is so important to you that parents ALWAYS keep their children with them when they are not working.

Yes, I do have clients that leave their kids with me when they are not working. If it was a habitual thing with a parent, it would bother me. If not, I could not care any less.

Now, regarding my post, that you actually saved and copied to your hard drive as it's from another forum, just in case you EVER needed some ammo against me (wow, I'm flattered) That post was in regard to one family with two children....it was in February. Yes, I had an issue with the Mom always being on her phone and not paying attention to her children, as it was causing behavioral issues with them here. I suppose, for people like you, I should have went back and posted in that thread the end result. I had a conversation with Mom. I told her that the lack of attention her children were recieving was effecting their behavior. I explained to her, that by simply providing them with an extra 10 one-on-one minutes upon arrival each day, that their behavior had made a complete turn around with me. She asked how I did it. I told her. She then began implementing the same practice with her children. Should I have to tell a parent that? No. But, some parents NEED to be told-wether it be due to ignorance or inconsiderateness-and I'm okay with that. THAT is the thing that I look for in an interview most: is a parent open to new ideas and approaches if their own are not working. If they are, then it's all good....unless it's an obviously "high maintenance" mom....in which case I make the interview short and sweet and do not enroll.

Re. the parent leaving her child here for 24 (oh gasp) days per year while she takes care of personal and family things. BFD....out of 365 days, I find that completely acceptable. She also takes her children on AWESOME vacations, spends every weekend with them doing many fun activities, picks up early for swim lessons, gymnastics ad tball. She's not neglecting her children, and she'd probably not give a rat's ass what you or I think about it. It's her choice as a parent to simplify her life when able and to allow her children to have fun here while she does things they would HATE participating in. You asked if she worked weekends earlier - no, she has a four day work week- she's a dentist and owns her own practice.

So, you can think I am wrong for having the opinion that parent's should be able to leave their kids here when they are off....and I can disagree with you. But that doesn't make either of wrong or right, we just have differing views on parenting. In the end, your opinion has absolutely zero effect on me. I run a thriving business and my parents absolutely love the fact that I am here for them and their children.

If you'd like to stalk me further, please feel free to join my forum, where you will see that that ONE post is most defintely the closet thing you will EVER see to me talking crap about parents the way you all do. Although, I probably wouldn't approve you....my forum stays fairly drama free, as, just like with my DCF, I SELECT who will be there - typically people with similiar philosphies of care, but who may also offer ideas and advice that are valuable to me, as well as other members.

As for you, Judy and promom, the only one's who "get it", you're all just a little to self-righteous for my tastes.

I'm done with this conversation and will not allow you to bait me into any more of your drama....just as the other day when you, even though I agreed with, chose to quote and argue with me over the same post three times in another thread....I hope it was enjoyable arguing with yourself when I chose to not respond.
  #99  
Old 07-30-2010, 06:50 PM
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Okay Nanny...first, let me clarify. I did not say that I interview families and do not enroll those who would leave their children in care when they are not working. I said if YOU all have an issue with that, then you should not enroll clients who would do it. You can interview it out if you desire to. ( of course if you do that, then who will you have to talk crap about?)You simply ask a parent what their philosophy of parenting is....you can even give them a list of questions and insist they answer them, IF it is so important to you that parents ALWAYS keep their children with them when they are not working.

Yes, I do have clients that leave their kids with me when they are not working. If it was a habitual thing with a parent, it would bother me. If not, I could not care any less.

Now, regarding my post, that you actually saved and copied to your hard drive as it's from another forum, just in case you EVER needed some ammo against me (wow, I'm flattered) That post was in regard to one family with two children....it was in February. Yes, I had an issue with the Mom always being on her phone and not paying attention to her children, as it was causing behavioral issues with them here. I suppose, for people like you, I should have went back and posted in that thread the end result. I had a conversation with Mom. I told her that the lack of attention her children were recieving was effecting their behavior. I explained to her, that by simply providing them with an extra 10 one-on-one minutes upon arrival each day, that their behavior had made a complete turn around with me. She asked how I did it. I told her. She then began implementing the same practice with her children. Should I have to tell a parent that? No. But, some parents NEED to be told-wether it be due to ignorance or inconsiderateness-and I'm okay with that. THAT is the thing that I look for in an interview most: is a parent open to new ideas and approaches if their own are not working. If they are, then it's all good....unless it's an obviously "high maintenance" mom....in which case I make the interview short and sweet and do not enroll.

Re. the parent leaving her child here for 24 (oh gasp) days per year while she takes care of personal and family things. BFD....out of 365 days, I find that completely acceptable. She also takes her children on AWESOME vacations, spends every weekend with them doing many fun activities, picks up early for swim lessons, gymnastics ad tball. She's not neglecting her children, and she'd probably not give a rat's ass what you or I think about it. It's her choice as a parent to simplify her life when able and to allow her children to have fun here while she does things they would HATE participating in. You asked if she worked weekends earlier - no, she has a four day work week- she's a dentist and owns her own practice.

So, you can think I am wrong for having the opinion that parent's should be able to leave their kids here when they are off....and I can disagree with you. But that doesn't make either of wrong or right, we just have differing views on parenting. In the end, your opinion has absolutely zero effect on me. I run a thriving business and my parents absolutely love the fact that I am here for them and their children.

If you'd like to stalk me further, please feel free to join my forum, where you will see that that ONE post is most defintely the closet thing you will EVER see to me talking crap about parents the way you all do. Although, I probably wouldn't approve you....my forum stays fairly drama free, as, just like with my DCF, I SELECT who will be there - typically people with similiar philosphies of care, but who may also offer ideas and advice that are valuable to me, as well as other members.

As for you, Judy and promom, the only one's who "get it", you're all just a little to self-righteous for my tastes.

I'm done with this conversation and will not allow you to bait me into any more of your drama....just as the other day when you, even though I agreed with, chose to quote and argue with me over the same post three times in another thread....I hope it was enjoyable arguing with yourself when I chose to not respond.
Crystal,
You can't interview it out. Not even YOU can interview it out. You can try to ask questions about "philosophy" for hours and you still won't have a CLUE of whether or not they are going to shun their kid when their kid gets hard to take care of.

Also... if you have the experience and education you keep saying you have then how in Sam Hell do you think a newbie parent of a few weeks can even HAVE a parenting philosophy? That's silly and you know it. They don't have enough experience as parents to be able to project their "idea" of how they are parenting into something so important as spending quantity time with their kids.

Geesh... I took care of kids for twenty years before my ds was born and I didn't have a CLUE of what parenting was like until I became one. I knew HOW to take care of him but I sure didn't have enough knowledge of parenting to have a friggin philosophy.

It's also rediculous to suggest that someone who has just had a baby and been home with them 24/7 for a few months, and who is still under the influence of the body changes that go along with having a child and caring for a newborn is somehow going to relate to the idea that at some point this is going to be a HELLUVA lot harder. That person who doesn't have a day to day OPTION to choose to not be with their kid is going to KNOW what their decision will be when they DO have that option.

If you have the experience you say you have then you should recognize that the parent before you in the interview may well be a totally different kind of parent six months later. They LOOK a lot alike when they are sitting on your couch as a new parent. They don't look so much alike two years down the road.

You are doing a HUGE diservice to providers that come on here to learn about day care from experienced and educated providers when you suggest that YOU are able to read people and TELL. You have current and past clients who leave their kids in day care when they don't need day care. You have chosen to not care about it becuase you wouldn't have a business if your care turned into action... meaning you wouldn't have them as clients.

There's no magic formula. There's no "reading" people. Providers shouldn't feel like they just can't DRAW the "right" clients because they end up with half or more of their clients shunning their kids a few months into the kids care. You suggest YOU can draw them but your words very clearly show that you can't. You may have SOME cleints that keep their kids the majority of the time they have personal time but you have NOT built your business upon it. You have done what most successful providers do... meaning you are just the same... You have decided that the issue brought to us by the OP is no big deal. You don't care. You think it's okay. That's very different from saying you don't deal with it year after year just like everyone else does. You choose to react to it in a way that allows your business to survive.

This is a serious societal issue. It's a very difficult thing for providers to deal with. The longer you are in business the more you see it become a societal norm. That's not in the kids best interest. It's in the businesses best interest but not the kids. Let's be real with new providers and tell them the truth. The truth is that you WILL run into this most likely within the first few months you are caring for kids. The truth is that it will bug the hell out of you and you will feel really bad for the kids. The truth is that if you refuse to care for kids when their parents can spend time with them but don't you will have a lot of conflict in your business. If you say NO to it you will be deceived into believing they need care when they don't.

You have to come to a realization that this IS a part of this business and it's a sucky part of it. Your chances of having a good sized day care and having every parent using your services only when they need it for work is slim to none. It's something you have to come to terms with if you are going to do this as a career.

As far as stalking you... hee hee.. I love that.

I found out about your board thru this board. Whenever I find a child care board I read the archives. I read every page of this board before I joined. I read every page of Judy's board before I joined. I'm currently reading Childfun's archives and am up to page 163!!!!!! It may be a couple of years before I join that one cuz they have like 500 pages of posts.

I started to read yours and ran into that post (and a few others of the same vein by the way... it's not just one). I saved it BEFORE I posted a link to it because I KNEW you would cut off guests as soon as I posted it. And so you did..

I don't think you are telling the truth. I think that post is the truth. I have been doing this long enough to smell someone advertising themselves as "teachers, mentors, trainers, evaluators" and providers. I know an ad when I see one. You are using this board to advertise your business. When you advertise your business you put words in the advertisements that will draw CUSTOMERS.

You have a nice body of ads here and anyone interested in hiring you will surely hear what you want them to hear. It sells to parents and maybe even to businesses that may consider paying you for services.

It doesn't sell to seasoned providers but then again seasoned providers aren't your customers.

You don't fool me and I am guessing I'm not alone.
  #100  
Old 07-31-2010, 06:35 AM
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Was this thread about:

parents who have children in daycare every week then take vacations without their children? Yes.

parents who take an occassional date night? No.

parents who take vacations when there is already an at-home parent? No.

parents who take vacations without their older children (over 5)? No. Now, I inferred this based on the fact that this is a daycare website discussing daycare issues and it's reasonable to infer that most of the posts are regarding children in daycare which is typically the under age 5 group.

parents who do not take "family vacations" anymore? Yes.


Did anyone in this thread say:

that parents HAVE to be with their children 24/7 in order to be considered to be "good" parents or to not be "bad" parents? No.

parents who put their children in daycare (whether by choice or necessity) are "bad"? No.

that parents never need a break? No. Quite the opposite. BOTH sides have stated this on numerous occasions, yet one side IGNORES the other side stating this.

Let's stay on topic, ladies! And let's stop putting words in each others' mouths. And when we talk about some parents who do things that we view as harmful to the children (especially if the children are crying to us about it), don't take it personal against YOU. We usually have a particular client in mind that has caused us to be concerned. It's not about "parent-bashing", it's about our concern for the children. And that's a concern that comes from months and years of loving these children during the most wonderful time of their lives, teaching them, holding them, hugging them, kissing their booboos, and drying their tears. It's our sadness that we are actually spending more time and attention on SOME of these kids than their own parents do and the kids cry to us and confide in us, and we see the sadness in the eyes of those too young to talk. We ache for them. And we just wish that those types of self-absorbed parents would just look for once moment in the eyes of their children and see the love and yearning that the child has just to spend a day with mom or dad. It's not too much for a child to ask for and it's not too much for us to wish and hope for. After all, most of us went into this business because we have a deep love for children and that spurs us on in our quest to speak for these little, innocent, precious children.

And if we, sometimes, get a little too passionate, it's out of our deep love for these children and our passion to see them grow into the very best people they can possibly be.
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