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Old 01-27-2016, 03:04 PM
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Default Another FCCERS Question

so in my art area I have a shelf on the wall that is about 5-6ft high above another shelf that sits on the floor with kid friendly materials. It's a lot safer than I made it sound.

On the very top shelves, I have art supplies that only I can use. Like shaving cream for when we do science stuff, spray glue for when I need to seal a project or etc. I was not asked about any of this stuff at all. They just dinged me points for having it.

It says unsafe materials, choking hazards (listed the spray glue, glue gun, and shaving cream and a few others) in the children's art area...Yes, they are in the art area, but the kids do not have access to them, they are in boxes with lids 5-6ft off the ground on a shelf.

the art supplies that the kids to have access to are 100% child friendly and 100% safe.

So I guess I need to move these. I really don't have any other space to put these things. I have them there so that I am prepared.

funny thing is that in our science area, we have pics of us on the wall doing these...https://www.pinterest.com/pin/AT6H4a...Ir829u27jLAAI/

and the same ladies that scored me thought that they were awesome.


suggestions???? I am really starting to hate this stuff...
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:22 PM
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The shaving cream and spray glue are not non-toxic. The children do not have to have access to them for you to be marked down for them, it just has to be evident that they have used them at some point. So having the photos of the shaving cream activity up showed that the children have used it. Glitter and confetti type stuff are also considered unsafe , and if you have it in the environment (not sure if you do), even if the kids don't have access to it, it is likely assumed that they have used it at some point.

As far as the glue gun, I'm not sure about why they would mark you down for that.....they should have asked you during the interview after the observation if you ever allow the children to use it prior to marking you down for it, but the shaving cream alone would have gotten you marked down.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CoachingForQualityImprovement View Post
The shaving cream and spray glue are not non-toxic. The children do not have to have access to them for you to be marked down for them, it just has to be evident that they have used them at some point. So having the photos of the shaving cream activity up showed that the children have used it. Glitter and confetti type stuff are also considered unsafe , and if you have it in the environment (not sure if you do), even if the kids don't have access to it, it is likely assumed that they have used it at some point.

As far as the glue gun, I'm not sure about why they would mark you down for that.....they should have asked you during the interview after the observation if you ever allow the children to use it prior to marking you down for it, but the shaving cream alone would have gotten you marked down.
well I guess another place I am going to take the ding...

I don't let the little ones that I know still mouth things participate in the shaving cream activity, which btw they don't even touch it.

but I guess this old dog is willing to change her ways...lol

thank you crystal for your feedback. I do understand how they just have to assume that i give it to them since it is there.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:33 PM
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We've done those rain clouds, aren't those cool!!! So she saw that you had used the shaving cream and never said anything about it being harmful but dinged you for having in your art space yet out of reach?? WTH?
Sometimes I wonder if they know what they're supposed to be doing.
I know I have to go through my whole arts and crafts supply shelves and rearrange everything.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
so in my art area I have a shelf on the wall that is about 5-6ft high above another shelf that sits on the floor with kid friendly materials. It's a lot safer than I made it sound.

On the very top shelves, I have art supplies that only I can use. Like shaving cream for when we do science stuff, spray glue for when I need to seal a project or etc. I was not asked about any of this stuff at all. They just dinged me points for having it.

It says unsafe materials, choking hazards (listed the spray glue, glue gun, and shaving cream and a few others) in the children's art area...Yes, they are in the art area, but the kids do not have access to them, they are in boxes with lids 5-6ft off the ground on a shelf.

the art supplies that the kids to have access to are 100% child friendly and 100% safe.

So I guess I need to move these. I really don't have any other space to put these things. I have them there so that I am prepared.

funny thing is that in our science area, we have pics of us on the wall doing these...https://www.pinterest.com/pin/AT6H4a...Ir829u27jLAAI/

and the same ladies that scored me thought that they were awesome.


suggestions???? I am really starting to hate this stuff...
It never ceases to amaze me what some of these inspectors can come up with.

Maybe somehow enclose the shelf? Or put your things in a rolling cart that you can keep somewhere else like a locked closet.

Are you allowed to comment on the inspection report? We weren't. If so, I'd just put. Said shelf is a teacher's only shelf six feet off the ground. Supplies are secured in boxes with lids.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:02 PM
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It really isn't the fault of the assessor. It's the FCCERS tool, they were just following it. The photos showed that the children have used the shaving cream which is considered toxic, so they had to mark her down for it. Sucks, but it is what it is.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:11 PM
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Our assessor stresses that just because we may "think" something is out of reach to a child doesn't mean it is unless it is actually behind a locked door.

Something 5-6 ft off the ground would be accessible to many kids. Easier for some compared to others but not completely.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Our assessor stresses that just because we may "think" something is out of reach to a child doesn't mean it is unless it is actually behind a locked door.

Something 5-6 ft off the ground would be accessible to many kids. Easier for some compared to others but not completely.
i know what you guys mean. the rule of thumb is if its possible in some way shape or form, then we need to make it impossible....

BUT in my defense, unless they went into my garage and got my small step ladder out, there is no way in the world anyone could get up there. and my garage door is locked during business hours.
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
i know what you guys mean. the rule of thumb is if its possible in some way shape or form, then we need to make it impossible....

BUT in my defense, unless they went into my garage and got my small step ladder out, there is no way in the world anyone could get up there. and my garage door is locked during business hours.
I had some spray glue in a cabinet once where I had made a felt board.....they marked me because the cabinet wasn't lockedAlso, shaving cream is a NO-NO...PERIOD...here... they cut that out a few years ago for us...My kids loved playing with shaving cream but no more. Even though I score well, there are horror stories I could tell, but ????
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
well I guess another place I am going to take the ding...

I don't let the little ones that I know still mouth things participate in the shaving cream activity, which btw they don't even touch it.

but I guess this old dog is willing to change her ways...lol

thank you crystal for your feedback. I do understand how they just have to assume that i give it to them since it is there.
I use shaving cream with the kids and I'm NOT giving it up. ECERS says it's okay for centers but NOT for FCC. That's balogne.

This article lists all my other issues with them "banning" it
http://msooey.tumblr.com/post/176155...-cream-article

Of course, I keep my shaving cream locked in the shed and we don't use it on observation days. I am not giving it up but I have also come to the conclusion that there is just no reasoning with them.
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spedmommy4 View Post
I use shaving cream with the kids and I'm NOT giving it up. ECERS says it's okay for centers but NOT for FCC. That's balogne.

This article lists all my other issues with them "banning" it
http://msooey.tumblr.com/post/176155...-cream-article

Of course, I keep my shaving cream locked in the shed and we don't use it on observation days. I am not giving it up but I have also come to the conclusion that there is just no reasoning with them.
omg, did you write this article? I love this article.

i wish I could find that information from colgate, as it is what I have.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2016, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Our assessor stresses that just because we may "think" something is out of reach to a child doesn't mean it is unless it is actually behind a locked door.

Something 5-6 ft off the ground would be accessible to many kids. Easier for some compared to others but not completely.
Our's say that, too....sunscreen, diaper ointment, etc all have to be locked up just like medicine because assessor's consider all things accessible no matter how high the shelf is
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
omg, did you write this article? I love this article.

i wish I could find that information from colgate, as it is what I have.
Lol. No, I just like it.
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
Our's say that, too....sunscreen, diaper ointment, etc all have to be locked up just like medicine because assessor's consider all things accessible no matter how high the shelf is
Oh boy
All this extra time to get everything out when it's needed. Maybe we should all just stop using them?
And really? No shaving cream? We don't use it often but sometimes and the kids love it!
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:58 AM
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I think I just gave myself an aneurism rolling my eyes too hard. This is why I despise any type of rating/ accreditation program. Great article though. Good luck
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:08 AM
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I assume the same with sharp knives in the kitchen? It all has to be behind locked cupboards? What a PITA.
What about stuff in your medicine cabinet, such as toothpaste, that can be harmful if too much is swallowed?
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:11 PM
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I have always been told that if it is not locked away, then it is considered accessible. The reasoning I was told was because a child could climb on something and reach them. Either way I was told no shaving cream or glitter allowed at all either. :-( I have everything like that locked away in hanging cupboards.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:28 PM
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Same here, I have to keep all craft stuff behind locked doors. I installed the L locks on my closet doors and keep all my cleaning supplies and craft stuff except for paper and non-chemical or supplies that aren't considered a choking hazard, behind those doors. I even have to make sure I don't have toothpaste in my medicine cabinet in my bathroom.

The price we pay!
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:25 AM
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Ok now what about this....I remember reading an article about a little boy inhaling cinnamon and dying, did anyone else see that? It was awhile back. But what about stuff like that? Should we be locking our food cupboards as well? If you look good and hard at every single thing we have in dc, each item could possibly be lethal. It all boils down to supervision!!!
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:47 AM
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Locked or not locked we can't have shaving cream in the art supply area. Oh and my husband measured the shaving cream is 9ft off the ground.

I talked to the accessor she said I can't have any items in the art cabinet/shelf that are not child safe. Anything in the art cabinet they will assume we use with the kids.

Anything the kids cant use she said shouldn't be in the art cabinet/shelf.

Back to rolling my eyes.
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
I assume the same with sharp knives in the kitchen? It all has to be behind locked cupboards? What a PITA.
What about stuff in your medicine cabinet, such as toothpaste, that can be harmful if too much is swallowed?
Not allowed. Must be kept LOCKED up. My niece has to keep hers in her shower which has fridge locks on both sides.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:12 AM
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Not allowed. Must be kept LOCKED up. My niece has to keep hers in her shower which has fridge locks on both sides.
Toothpaste has to be locked here. I do have toothbrushes for the kids but we use water with our practice brushing for this reason. Crazy I know but it is what it is
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:29 AM
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Ok now what about this....I remember reading an article about a little boy inhaling cinnamon and dying, did anyone else see that? It was awhile back. But what about stuff like that? Should we be locking our food cupboards as well? If you look good and hard at every single thing we have in dc, each item could possibly be lethal. It all boils down to supervision!!!
we can't have any kind of spice, including salt and pepper accessible to kids.
Locked or 6 feet up in a cupboard.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:39 AM
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All of my spices have to be at or above counter level and it also depends on how deep you counters are, I have pretty big counters so it's not a problem with me leaving my spices up there.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:45 AM
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the longer this thread gets, the crazier it gets...lol

wow. I didn't realize how strict some LIC is.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:18 PM
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Default shaving cream

I've been doing childcare for about 25 years now. While I have never used shaving cream as an art material, I can relate to the frustration of the FCCERS ratings. Here in Colorado, as part of the new Colorado Shines initiative, family daycare providers are now part of the "points" system whether we want to be or not. Less than 10% of the providers previously opted to be rated. I am exploring the option of attempting a higher rating. Some of my frustration is that many items in the FCCERS are easily accomplished and have naturally been a part of my operating philosophy. As to the locked cabinet specification: I was told by an informational preliminary visit that "out of reach" is fine with licensing, but not with the higher ratings. I feel that my home is safe and if I don't allow children to play on the counters (I don't let them in the kitchen unless there's supervision) what's the problem?

I guess if I am "dinged" for some things . . . let the bells toll!

I have a problem with feeling that we need to justify ourselves to some ratings book, not justify, but feel that the care we give children is substandard because our art supplies or other "toxic" substances are accessible to a 6 foot tall preschooler. Are we allowed to use knives when children are present? Can we disinfect diaper changing surfaces when children are present? My diaper changing surface is at counter height and the disinfectant needs to contact the surface for 10 minutes. Do we need to have a separate locked room for diaper changing? no, wait, then we can't have eyes on the other children.

My frustration is that many excellent care providers will either not opt to go through the process due to it's strict nature or that many will opt to pursue another line of work because they perceive that they won't have enough clients because parents will perceive that a level 2 is somehow "unsafe."

In Colorado, a level 1 to a level 2 is pretty easy. The level 2 to 3 is very time consuming and difficult. I think there needs to be something akin to a level 2.5! Where most of the components are achieved.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler View Post
Same here, I have to keep all craft stuff behind locked doors. I installed the L locks on my closet doors and keep all my cleaning supplies and craft stuff except for paper and non-chemical or supplies that aren't considered a choking hazard, behind those doors. I even have to make sure I don't have toothpaste in my medicine cabinet in my bathroom.

The price we pay!
That is not a a state regulation.
Might be your county but Parent Aware scores you higher if all arts and craft materials are out and available to the children at all times. Keeping them behind closed doors and available only when you say is not developmentally appropriate according to PA
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Old 08-12-2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
Ok now what about this....I remember reading an article about a little boy inhaling cinnamon and dying, did anyone else see that? It was awhile back. But what about stuff like that? Should we be locking our food cupboards as well? If you look good and hard at every single thing we have in dc, each item could possibly be lethal. It all boils down to supervision!!!
our spices including salt and pepper have to be inaccessible.
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2016, 07:57 PM
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And a lot of licensed providers are going underground because......?
Not saying I condone that, but the standards for upholding a license, or one with valued merits is getting a little off base.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:46 PM
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I've considered licensing, but some of the rules here in MO are just absurd. I get by watching the 4 kids I'm allowed plus my son and my niece. I would love to make more but it's not worth the stress
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And a lot of licensed providers are going underground because......?
Not saying I condone that, but the standards for upholding a license, or one with valued merits is getting a little off base.
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