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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Should I Limit The Number Of Hours For Full Time Kids?
Unregistered 07:42 AM 04-13-2011
I'm a fairly new daycare provider in Kansas, I just started 9 months ago and I haven't really had any experience with this, so any advice would be appreciated!
I have six full time kids(and none of my own), and I open at 6:45am for one parent(single mom) who works from 7-3. The past few months she has been coming to get her daughter right at closing time, 5:30pm. I know she gets off work at 3, but she spends 2.5 hours just goofing off, or napping, or hanging out with her friends(I know this thanks to Facebook). So my question is, why should all my other daycare parents have to pay full time rates for only 40 hrs a week when she leaves her child here for almost 55? I'm frustrated because her daughter is almost two and stares out the window calling for Mama when all the other kids have left and she's here alone.
So should I rewrite my contract to say that full time rates are good for up to 45 hours a week? I've asked her to come earlier but she said she likes having her free time...I'm a little mean I guess because I think your free time is over when you have a child to take care of! Does anyone else have a limited number of hours in your contract? Thanks for the help!!
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Sprouts 11:42 AM 04-13-2011
You should make a video of her daughter calling out the window for mama and post it on facebook! lol
She probably doesnt understand how shes affecting her daughter, also maybe you can have contractual hours so if she comes after that she will be charged a fee, or open later and charge her a fee for early drop off.
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DBug 11:51 AM 04-13-2011
Is she the last one left everyday? If so, why not change your closing time to whenever everyone else gets picked up? That way dc mom will still get her "free time" but at least it will be shorter and dcg will get to spend more time with her.
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morgan24 11:53 AM 04-13-2011
If she drops off at 6:45 she must need 15 minutes travel time. I would tell her at pick up today that from now on you expect her to pick up no later than 3:15. If she doesn't like it prepare a fee for the time from 3:15 to 5:30 and tell her that it starts tomorrow. I don't think she cares that is affecting her child or she would pick up earlier. Of course she likes her free time because it's not costing her anything. You need to put a price on it.
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jojosmommy 11:54 AM 04-13-2011
I would have her contract the hours her child will be in care like from 6:45-____. Then tell her every(15 min/30 min/hour) however you want to bill will be at XX rate (and make it ALOT!). Tell her the max hours a child can be in my care per day is XX hours. I have 10 hour max but nobody in our area has longer than a 15 min commute simply b/c of the area we live in.

Explain to her that her child knows what time she should be picked up and it upsets her when she doesnt get picked up at that time. Explain that when she asks when is mom coming you always say "after nap time" or after snack time" or "after outside time" etc. Then when she is late her daughter is upset.
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cheerfuldom 12:03 PM 04-13-2011
I have a 10 hour max too. I don't care what the parents do in that 10 hours as long as I get paid and their kid gets picked up. Set a time where she has to pick up but only if you are willing for the mom to term because she probably can find someone else to do this for her if you won't.
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nannyde 12:31 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I've asked her to come earlier but she said she likes having her free time...
That's the problem. It's "free" time. Free with no kids and free money. Money = time in daycare just like EVERY other business.

I do a max of nine hours per day.... forty five a week.

I would tell her that you quoted her rates based on a pick up of 3:15. It's five dollars per hour paid in advance and scheduled in advance for anything beyond 3:15. She needs to give you the schedule on Friday for the upcoming weeks.

If she picks up by 3:15 the rates remain the same. It's ONLY if she needs additional hours.

Now that she's had two months of being able to pick the kid up hours after she is off she will most likely want to leave your daycare. She's going to want to find someone else new starting out to run this on. Be prepared for her to leave. She's got it now where she doesn't have hardly any face time with the kid at all so she doesn't have to do much except bath, dinner, and then to bed. She's not going to like having to have him with her awake for a couple more hours per day.

She is doing this for a reason. That reason isn't going to change when you attach money to it.

Look at the amount she pays you per week and divide it by 55 hours. See what you are making per hour. Now do that with your other clients. You will see you are making more than a dollar an hour less with this kid. Over a course of a year that's going to be about two to three thousand dollars of free day care.
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AnythingsPossible 12:41 PM 04-13-2011
Is she on a state subsidy for daycare payment? If so, tell her that you will have to bill her for the 2 hours a day that her child is in daycare and she isn't working. Tell her your overtime rate is x amount over what your normal hourly rate is.
My full day rate is for 10 hours a day, and I do have mom's that work 9.5 to 10 hours with commute time and extended office hours. Just leaving her daughter there so she can have her time is unfortunate.
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Country Kids 01:25 PM 04-13-2011
I know alot of providers in my area charge a flat rate but I never have. I charge by the hour and have heard oh you charge so much-one rate for potty trained and one rate for diapers/pull-ups. My rates are above $2.00 but below $3.00. Outrageous amount I know The thing alot of providers don't realize is that I'm actually making more than them by doing it this way because no matter how long I have the child I am making so much an hour and it never stops adding up till the end of the month. So it makes a parent see that yes they can go have free time after work but its still costing them so much an hour and that can add up fairly quickly. By doing this way I'm actually making $50.00-$100.00 more a month with full time children and making anywhere from $25.00-$50.00 more with part-time. So let this parent know that you will be going to an hourly rate x by the amount of time her child is in care (11 hours)x5 days x 4 weeks = this amount. Maybe it will shock her and get her to your house earlier! I may a killing this last month because it was a five week month!
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daycare 01:30 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I know alot of providers in my area charge a flat rate but I never have. I charge by the hour and have heard oh you charge so much-one rate for potty trained and one rate for diapers/pull-ups. My rates are above $2.00 but below $3.00. Outrageous amount I know The thing alot of providers don't realize is that I'm actually making more than them by doing it this way because no matter how long I have the child I am making so much an hour and it never stops adding up till the end of the month. So it makes a parent see that yes they can go have free time after work but its still costing them so much an hour and that can add up fairly quickly. By doing this way I'm actually making $50.00-$100.00 more a month with full time children and making anywhere from $25.00-$50.00 more with part-time. So let this parent know that you will be going to an hourly rate x by the amount of time her child is in care (11 hours)x5 days x 4 weeks = this amount. Maybe it will shock her and get her to your house earlier! I may a killing this last month because it was a five week month!
okk I am slow.... how much do you charge an hour?
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Blackcat31 02:16 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I know alot of providers in my area charge a flat rate but I never have. I charge by the hour and have heard oh you charge so much-one rate for potty trained and one rate for diapers/pull-ups. My rates are above $2.00 but below $3.00. Outrageous amount I know The thing alot of providers don't realize is that I'm actually making more than them by doing it this way because no matter how long I have the child I am making so much an hour and it never stops adding up till the end of the month. So it makes a parent see that yes they can go have free time after work but its still costing them so much an hour and that can add up fairly quickly. By doing this way I'm actually making $50.00-$100.00 more a month with full time children and making anywhere from $25.00-$50.00 more with part-time. So let this parent know that you will be going to an hourly rate x by the amount of time her child is in care (11 hours)x5 days x 4 weeks = this amount. Maybe it will shock her and get her to your house earlier! I may a killing this last month because it was a five week month!
I guess I am not sure about how it works for you but I know I would make much less if I charged an hourly rate. I charge a full day rate for 5 or more hours per day. I have 4 part time kids who only come for 5 hours per day. So for example, I get paid $30 for the hours of 7 a.m. until 12:00 noon for one child and another $30 for a child who comes from 1:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. for a total of $60 dollars for that one day. If I did it on an hourly basis and charged $3.00 per hour I would have only made $30 for the whole day so I disagree that hourly is the best way to go....atleast for me.
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PeanutsGalore 02:59 PM 04-13-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
...

I do a max of nine hours per day.... forty five a week.

...
This. Max your hours out at 45/week for full time. Any hours above and beyond that should be paid for. I'd set the additional hours at a high price, because 45 hours per week is way more than enough time for a kid to be in daycare, and it can cause you to burnout faster as well. Though if you're being paid an extra $20/hour, the burnout might not be as bad!
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Country Kids 04:43 PM 04-13-2011
BlackCat I would love to live where you live! That is like top dollar for childcare it sounds like. The area I live is the highest in unemployment for our state and I mean it is very depressed around here. We had a COSTCO open and they had 3,000 applicants for 100 positions. Anyway back to childcare costs.

Part-time rate in my area is around $350.00 a month and full-time is anywhere from 400-450. I usually make around 350-400 for part-time and around 500 for my full-timers (all here 9-11 hours a day). Last month one of my little ones had a bill of 550.00 another one 540 something and then the other one was was 400 something. Then I have several school-agers which I charge a flat rate. So for my area I'm doing pretty good. If I had around 6 full-timers it would average about 3000 a month. There is no where around here I could work and make that amount of money. My dh works for the state and doesn't even come close to making that amount which I find very sad.
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mac60 06:41 PM 04-13-2011
Most of my moms work 8 hours, have a 1 hour lunch, 5 days a week. 45 hours per week doesn't cover any times for drop off/pickups.
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unregistered member 05:00 AM 04-14-2011
I'm open from 7:00 - 5:00 and parents can choose 9hrs of care for their children. Any longer than that and they have to pay $5 more a day and it must be contracted care. I would give her more than 24 hrs notice to be respecful but send a letter that is to the point. Good luck!
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jojosmommy 10:41 AM 04-14-2011
A lady near me charges based on every 15 min. Parents sign in and out and she bills accordingly. She says it cuts down on people assuming they can leave kids in care for as long as they choose. She calculated it so that 9 hours per day is the same as her max rate (what used to be her full time rate) and anything over that is paid accordingly. I dont have the paitence for that but I don't currently have anyone who takes advantage of extra free time either. Just a thought.
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countrymom 12:24 PM 04-14-2011
ok, so I'm working on my contract. I too work from 7-5pm, but I give everyone 9 hours of "work time" so how can I word it that anything after their 9 hours they will be charged extra, but I don't want them to think that they can leave their kids here till 5pm because thats my closing time. kwim.
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Blackcat31 12:36 PM 04-14-2011
Originally Posted by countrymom:
ok, so I'm working on my contract. I too work from 7-5pm, but I give everyone 9 hours of "work time" so how can I word it that anything after their 9 hours they will be charged extra, but I don't want them to think that they can leave their kids here till 5pm because thats my closing time. kwim.
Why not just say something along the lines of

"This is your normal rate for these hours ___to____ and if anything comes up where you will require additional hours of care, the cost will be $____."

That way the parents know that they are paying for their contracted time but can use additional hours at an additional cost if they need it.
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Abigail 12:56 PM 04-14-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
So my question is, why should all my other daycare parents have to pay full time rates for only 40 hrs a week when she leaves her child here for almost 55?

So should I rewrite my contract to say that full time rates are good for up to 45 hours a week? I've asked her to come earlier but she said she likes having her free time...Thanks for the help!!
To the OP, you've already asked her to pickup earlier. If you don't have any issues with your other families picking up and want to switch to contract hours I would give everyone a letter stating you're no longer offering care based on your open hours, but changing to contract hours.

I would draw up a guideline for you to use. If most of your families only use you 9 hours a day, decide on your weekly rates based on this nine hour limit. Then, for those who use you 9.5 or 10 or 10.5 or 11 hours per day, etc charge $5/day more or whatever you feel is fit. Give everyone a new contract to sign within two weeks.


Originally Posted by countrymom:
ok, so I'm working on my contract. I too work from 7-5pm, but I give everyone 9 hours of "work time" so how can I word it that anything after their 9 hours they will be charged extra, but I don't want them to think that they can leave their kids here till 5pm because thats my closing time. kwim.
Do you have a place in your contract saying Suzy will attend care Monday-Friday and break it down by day to arrive this time and depart this time for each of those days? You should even if all five days have the same times. Then, in your late fees section have it firm that if they arrive earlier or depart later than scheduled a $1/minute late fee will be charged. If they need to change their hours they need to update it with you and you create a new contract with new hours and a higher rate.

Simply tell families rates are based on a nine hour day in daycare and if they need more than that the rate will increase. This leaves you the option to increase it whatever dollar amount you see fit.
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