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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Destruction of Our Property
crazy_8 02:46 PM 08-20-2013
So, today after snack time, the kids went out back to play. While I was cleaning up and getting the kitchen ready for the next meal to come, one of the kids comes in and tells me that my daughter is out hitting the fence with a baseball bat. I walk out to find her and one of the dcb's has destroyed the decorative wood fencing around our shade garden. I put them both in time-out. She is grounded to her room the rest of the day and he is not allowed to leave the couch. They both wrote 25 lines on not breaking other people's stuff. This is not the first time this has happened, though. They all destroyed the steps going into our garden shed about a month ago. Their mom never offered to help pay to replace it. We redid the "House Rules" and we read them to the kids this morning and explained them so they were clear. Not willfully destroying our toys or belongings is up high on the list. Yet the first thing that happened today was for the 3 year old to rip the cardboard flaps off a box of partner reading books that we are borrowing from our charter school for home school purposes. Then this. The last day these kids were here, the oldest boy (the accomplice in the fence incident today) was in trouble repeatedly for lying and got caught stealing candy from my husband's desk just as his mom was walking in the door. It seems like there is constantly a problem with these 3 siblings. Anyway, I'm not sure what to do. I'm thinking that the mom is going to need to go in halves on the cost to fix or replace the fence that was destroyed and that the 2 kids need to be a part of the rebuilding process. I'm kind of at the point, though, where I'm just done. Any advice you guys might be able to throw out there would be much appreciated!!!
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Crystal 02:53 PM 08-20-2013
My advice:

No playing outside without adult supervision. They can sit inside until you are done cleaning up, if need be. I would not charge the Mom. You were not outside actively supervising, therefore she COULD get you in trouble. If they were able to that much damage, then they were unsupervised for far too long.
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spud912 03:11 PM 08-20-2013
Please don't take offense, but it sounds like a lack of supervision, therefore I would not charge. If these three siblings are prone to getting into things or destruction, then they need to be under your direct visual supervision at all times.

I understand your need to do things....I'm by myself all day as well. My children are at least under auditory supervision all day, but if there are 1 or 2 who are more prone to getting into trouble, then I provide activities for them under close visual supervision. For example, while I cook or clean in the kitchen, the children normally play in the playroom which is right next to the kitchen in an open floor plan. While I can hear everything, I can't see everything. For that reason, at least some of the clan (especially those who are prone to cause trouble), sit at the table right next to the kitchen with an activity (usually puzzles, playdough or arts and crafts) while I finish doing what I need to in the kitchen.

In the three years I've done this, I've never required a parent to replace something. It's not that anything hasn't been broken, it's that if it was broken it was most likely because I could have done something different and better to prevent it. If the damage was purposeful and done under my direct supervision (basically it was an occurrence I could have not avoided and the child did it with intent to destroy it), that is when I would charge the parents.

Now I do tell the parents when their child purposely destroy something and how I intend to prevent it in the future. I think it is important for parents to know that their child is being destructive. I hope this helps!
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coolconfidentme 03:17 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
My advice:

No playing outside without adult supervision. They can sit inside until you are done cleaning up, if need be. I would not charge the Mom. You were not outside actively supervising, therefore she COULD get you in trouble. If they were able to that much damage, then they were unsupervised for far too long.
I make everyone stay seated until I'm done cleaning. We sing songs during this time time.

ps..., I'm sick of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star btw! Their personal FAV.
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crazy_8 03:25 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by spud912:
Please don't take offense, but it sounds like a lack of supervision, therefore I would not charge. If these three siblings are prone to getting into things or destruction, then they need to be under your direct visual supervision at all times.

I understand your need to do things....I'm by myself all day as well. My children are at least under auditory supervision all day, but if there are 1 or 2 who are more prone to getting into trouble, then I provide activities for them under close visual supervision. For example, while I cook or clean in the kitchen, the children normally play in the playroom which is right next to the kitchen in an open floor plan. While I can hear everything, I can't see everything. For that reason, at least some of the clan (especially those who are prone to cause trouble), sit at the table right next to the kitchen with an activity (usually puzzles, playdough or arts and crafts) while I finish doing what I need to in the kitchen.

In the three years I've done this, I've never required a parent to replace something. It's not that anything hasn't been broken, it's that if it was broken it was most likely because I could have done something different and better to prevent it. If the damage was purposeful and done under my direct supervision (basically it was an occurrence I could have not avoided and the child did it with intent to destroy it), that is when I would charge the parents.

Now I do tell the parents when their child purposely destroy something and how I intend to prevent it in the future. I think it is important for parents to know that their child is being destructive. I hope this helps!
No offense taken and I'm totally hearing you. It was only a matter of minutes of me walking back in the door. I know I forgot to mention how exactly it all played out but I served snack, they cleared their plates and went out. I went out with them for about 10 minutes and stepped back in to tidy something up that I had forgotten needed attention and it was in that moment that the other child came in and told me. I couldn't believe they had done it because when I was out there, my oldest had the bat, another child was pitching the ball to her and the other kids were in various spots around the yard. We were starting our PE time. I'm angry that I even stepped back in. I'm more blown away by the fact that they did it and what the heck were they thinking?! I understand the importance of supervision. I had a child care provider who lacked severely in the supervision area and then when things happened she blamed us and dropped us without blinking an eye. Since the first incident I have been tighter on them and making sure that they aren't doing things like this. My kitchen window looks out on the back yard and I am in earshot of what's going on. I'm kicking myself for not being there to stop it but, like I said, I turned my back for a minute and this is what happened.
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crazy_8 04:05 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by coolconfidentme:
I make everyone stay seated until I'm done cleaning. We sing songs during this time time.

ps..., I'm sick of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star btw! Their personal FAV.
LOL ya, I feel ya there. I'm going to enforce that. I had been out there with them. It's amazing how fast they can turn around and do these things.
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crazy_8 04:11 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
My advice:

No playing outside without adult supervision. They can sit inside until you are done cleaning up, if need be. I would not charge the Mom. You were not outside actively supervising, therefore she COULD get you in trouble. If they were able to that much damage, then they were unsupervised for far too long.
It was all of 2 minutes at the most. The fence is hard to describe. It's more like edging. The former owner of this house was incredibly talented in creating things with wood, gourds, painting, etc. The fence was about knee high and constructed of sticks that were intricately woven together to make the edging around the garden area. 1 swing of the bat could (and did) destroy a 3 foot section. I'm not going to charge the mom, however, the boy and my daughter will work with my husband the next time they are here to clean up and repair what can be repaired.
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Crystal 04:17 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by crazy_8:
It was all of 2 minutes at the most. The fence is hard to describe. It's more like edging. The former owner of this house was incredibly talented in creating things with wood, gourds, painting, etc. The fence was about knee high and constructed of sticks that were intricately woven together to make the edging around the garden area. 1 swing of the bat could (and did) destroy a 3 foot section. I'm not going to charge the mom, however, the boy and my daughter will work with my husband the next time they are here to clean up and repair what can be repaired.
I see. In your first post it sounded as though you were taking time to clean and prep for the next meal, which usually takes a bit of time. And, then you went on to say that about a month ago they all destroyed a whole set of steps, so it sounded like lack of supervision to me. My Bad, I guess.
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Lyss 04:36 PM 08-20-2013
I misunderstood the first post too. I assume theses are older (over 3) children? Not sure if i missed that. Personally I wouldn't charge them. I'd get in trouble here, even just 2 minutes, because I am required to be with in sight and/or sound and from how I'm picturing the fence you described it wouldn't be a quiet destruction so I'd be responsible because I could not see or hear them.
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cheerfuldom 04:40 PM 08-20-2013
I wouldnt charge. It doesnt sound like this would have happened with direct supervision. you know you cant trust these kids at all due to their history so either you can accommodate the needs this particular family has or it would be better to let this family go. I am assuming at least one will be off to school soon though....are you committed to after school care as well?
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Crystal 04:40 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:
Personally I wouldn't charge them. I'd get in trouble here, even just 2 minutes, because I am required to be with in sight and/or sound and from how I'm pictuing the fence you described it wouldn't be a quiet destruction so I'd be responsible because I could not see or hear them.
Yes, this. Regs are the same in Cali too, which is where OP is from.
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Josiegirl 04:52 PM 08-20-2013
Believe me, I think we all understand how quickly things can happen when there are kids around. I was helping a girl in the bathroom and when we walked out, the 2 5 yo boys were fighting over who was going to take the CD out of the CD player. Everybody lost because they broke it. Many years ago I called the hospital for meds. for my dad, walked out of the room so I could hear them, talked for a couple minutes, when one of the other kids came running out and screamed they made a hole in the wall! Walked back in to find they had hit my living room wall with a toy and made a good sized hole in it; I'm talking a 6" one. One of the dcps offered to get together with the other involved and fix it. I never pushed it though because I know I should've been right there watching them every second. It just astonished me because I'd never had any problems with the 2 that were involved back then.
In this job, we need a couple dozen eyes and at least 8 arms.
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Crystal 05:00 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Believe me, I think we all understand how quickly things can happen when there are kids around. I was helping a girl in the bathroom and when we walked out, the 2 5 yo boys were fighting over who was going to take the CD out of the CD player. Everybody lost because they broke it. Many years ago I called the hospital for meds. for my dad, walked out of the room so I could hear them, talked for a couple minutes, when one of the other kids came running out and screamed they made a hole in the wall! Walked back in to find they had hit my living room wall with a toy and made a good sized hole in it; I'm talking a 6" one. One of the dcps offered to get together with the other involved and fix it. I never pushed it though because I know I should've been right there watching them every second. It just astonished me because I'd never had any problems with the 2 that were involved back then.
In this job, we need a couple dozen eyes and at least 8 arms.
See, I am thinking people DO NOT realize how important and absolutely NECCESSARY it is to provide constant, direct supervision at all times! The baseball bat that destroyed that fencing could have easily cracked a head. No way a child should have free range access to what can become a deadly weapon.

I am sorry to the OP, I do not mean to be harsh. I am just baffled at the number of providers who nonchalantly blow off the fact that they were not directly supervising and then blame the children and want parents to bear responsibility for something that happened on the provider's watch. or the provider tries to "explain away" injuries to children when they failed to adequately supervise and protect their safety.

Frankly, I am sick of it.
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Willow 05:03 PM 08-20-2013
If they were younger you could get in trouble for not directly supervising.

If they were older but had a history of distruction of property, stealing, lying etc it's still on you because you were aware of the potential for bad behavior and didn't supervise to prevent more from happening again.

I'm sorry about your fence (genuinely I am because I looove stuff like that), but perhaps you could reconsider letting them around such treasured items in the future. Same would go for books that are on loan and the like.

I hate to think what could have happened had it not been the fence they went after. It's obvious this crew, your kiddo included, need line of sight supervision from here on out. If you can't accommodate that need it may be time to term.


I'd be careful to review your discipline regs for your state as well. Here having a kiddo sit on time out on the couch the rest of the day would be grounds for pulling my license.


It was a flub. Learn as much as you can from it and do what you need to do to prevent it from happening in the future!
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Willow 05:08 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
See, I am thinking people DO NOT realize how important and absolutely NECCESSARY it is to provide constant, direct supervision at all times! The baseball bat that destroyed that fencing could have easily cracked a head. No way a child should have free range access to what can become a deadly weapon.

I am sorry to the OP, I do not mean to be harsh. I am just baffled at the number of providers who nonchalantly blow off the fact that they were not directly supervising and then blame the children and want parents to bear responsibility for something that happened on the provider's watch. or the provider tries to "explain away" injuries to children when they failed to adequately supervise and protect their safety.

Frankly, I am sick of it.

Unfortunately this is where my mind went to also. If someone would have gotten hurt while the kids,were unsupervised it would open the provider to a serious and devastating lawsuit, far beyond just losing their license
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Crystal 05:18 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Unfortunately this is where my mind went to also. If someone would have gotten hurt while the kids,were unsupervised it would open the provider to a serious and devastating lawsuit, far beyond just losing their license
Exactly. This could have been FAR worse than it was.
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Jack Sprat 06:08 PM 08-20-2013
I wouldn't ask them to replace it. I understand what you were doing. However, I have gotten to the point where every child is in our playroom while I am taking the little one to the toilet(bathroom is in playroom), while I am going to the toilet etc.. Where I go they go, where they go I go.
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Familycare71 06:24 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
If they were younger you could get in trouble for not directly supervising.

If they were older but had a history of distruction of property, stealing, lying etc it's still on you because you were aware of the potential for bad behavior and didn't supervise to prevent more from happening again.

I'm sorry about your fence (genuinely I am because I looove stuff like that), but perhaps you could reconsider letting them around such treasured items in the future. Same would go for books that are on loan and the like.

I hate to think what could have happened had it not been the fence they went after. It's obvious this crew, your kiddo included, need line of sight supervision from here on out. If you can't accommodate that need it may be time to term.


I'd be careful to review your discipline regs for your state as well. Here having a kiddo sit on time out on the couch the rest of the day would be grounds for pulling my license.


It was a flub. Learn as much as you can from it and do what you need to do to prevent it from happening in the future!
.
I hear and agree with all PP concerns... IMO it was your bad- you allowed children who have caused destruction before out of your sight. They have showed you before they couldn't be trusted... And i dont know if I'm reading between the lines too much but it sounds like your child(ren) have been termed before for similar destruction...
I also think sitting on a couch all day is way too harsh and wouldn't be allowed where I am either. But I think the helping to rebuild the fence is a good choice.
I would just re- evaluate your day... It sounds like with the group you have pottying alone may be too much independence- And like Chrystal said- it could have been much worse than a fence being destroyed with a bat!
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momofboys 06:54 PM 08-20-2013
I think if I read correctly the sitting on the couch was for her own child. can.licensing really dictate discipline for our own children?
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Familycare71 07:00 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I think if I read correctly the sitting on the couch was for her own child. can.licensing really dictate discipline for our own children?
Her child was sent to her room... The dck was placed on the couch for the rest of the day.
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craftymissbeth 07:48 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I think if I read correctly the sitting on the couch was for her own child. can.licensing really dictate discipline for our own children?
I don't know about OP's regs, but here in Kansas our discipline policy must be used for our children as well. I can't do anything discipline wise with my son that I wouldn't do with a dck... and whatever it is that we choose to do as far as discipline cannot stray from our written discipline policy.
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Willow 07:51 PM 08-20-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I don't know about OP's regs, but here in Kansas our discipline policy must be used for our children as well. I can't do anything discipline wise with my son that I wouldn't do with a dck... and whatever it is that we choose to do as far as discipline cannot stray from our written discipline policy.
It's the same way here.
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crazy_8 08:17 PM 08-20-2013
At the time of posting this I was pretty hot. I know I can't sit a kid down on the couch for the rest of the day and he didn't stay there all day. He had his time there and then he was up with the rest of the kids. My daughter was sent to her room to clean it and then was included in meals/snacks and what have you. I appreciate what JosieGirl had to say. My kitchen is within earshot of my backyard. The window overlooks the back yard and I keep it open. No, my children have never been term'd for destructive behavior. My daycare provider at the time didn't supervise the kids much at all. We were lifelong friends and I think that she had it in her head that my kids were part of the family. Her son got to be at that curious age. Sexually curious age. And when she caught him and my daughter kissing, it was suddenly our fault and she term'd us without even talking it out. They've never destroyed anyone's personal property outside what normal kids their ages do to their toys on occasion. I came here looking for advise and got completely torn apart. The step incident, I will admit, was a lack of supervision and was wrong on my part. In talking with the kids about it it was the DCK's idea and they followed suit instead of telling me. I never pushed the subject with the parent. Today was one of those fluke situations where I was there one minute, turned my back and crap happened. All I wanted was some advice on how to handle the situation. I'm not the kind of person who doesn't own their own crap. I'm not going to intentionally be negligent and then try to charge the parents. I'll own my mistakes and learn from them. I'm sorry I even posted here.
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Familycare71 08:24 PM 08-20-2013
I am sorry you feel that way- I can personally say it is never my intent to make someone regret posting.
For me - the post read wrong I guess. What I read was that these kids were destructive prior and then left alone again to be destructive. That was the main understanding I took that formed my opinion.
I understand saying something in the heat of the moment (boy and the couch) as I am a venter myself. I think it just added, for me, to the overall tone.
I do understand things can happen in an instant. I don't see how anyone with kids can't. I really liked the idea of what you said about having them help rebuild the fence- that sounds like a good consequence to me.
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Josiegirl 03:34 AM 08-21-2013
Cripe, I've had a baby whacked with a toy as I was RIGHT THERE changing her. There's another post telling how her son's GI tube was ripped out in an instant by a 2 yo. She couldn't stop him. All those who bit@hed others out, you must all be saints. I am careful. I am over protective. I am intelligent. I am not lazy. I am not neglectful. I detest it when people judge others, read their own interpretations between the lines, get on their own high horses, etc.
Yes, crap like this on forums make me fearful of posting also.
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Kaddidle Care 04:49 AM 08-21-2013
Plain and simple - kids do stupid things - unpredictable things - things that you could never imagine doing yourself as a kid.

Just get after them like white on rice and learn from it.

A kid can use anything as a weapon or object of destruction. I would eliminate any long stick/club like items while the littles are in your care. The problem is, you can't avoid everything. I once saw a child grab another child's head and give it a mighty twist (like you see in violent movies) that could have snapped the neck! I was across the room and couldn't get there fast enough but I yelled to get him to stop.

Be careful of what your children are watching on TV or the computer because they are learning harmful acts in full color.

I'm sorry to hear this happened but since your own child was involved, I wouldn't expect the other parent to pay for it. I would let them know what happened so they can avoid a future reoccurrence.
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Crystal 07:28 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Cripe, I've had a baby whacked with a toy as I was RIGHT THERE changing her. There's another post telling how her son's GI tube was ripped out in an instant by a 2 yo. She couldn't stop him. All those who bit@hed others out, you must all be saints. I am careful. I am over protective. I am intelligent. I am not lazy. I am not neglectful. I detest it when people judge others, read their own interpretations between the lines, get on their own high horses, etc.
Yes, crap like this on forums make me fearful of posting also.
I'm not seeing where anyone "bitched" her out. I am seeing that we shared our opinions, gave advice and stated facts about the need to properly supervise. I MIGHT be wrong, but the original post was the TRUTH, which was later changed to meet the providers needs. So when reading that first post, it clearly states that the children were allowed to play outside, completely unsupervised, and property was destroyed. She clearly stated that she was inside cleaning the kitchen and preparing for the next meal....that is NOT a two minute deal, and the children were left alone long enough to use a BASEBALL BAT to destroy property. My advice may have come off as harsh......I don't WANT to seem like a b****, but if that is what it takes to make a VERY important point about the need for close supervision, especially of children who are KNOWN to destroy things, and to hopefully help prevent a MAJOR injury (which very well could have happened with a BASEBALL BAT) then I guess I am a b****.
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Crystal 07:31 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
Plain and simple - kids do stupid things - unpredictable things - things that you could never imagine doing yourself as a kid.

Just get after them like white on rice and learn from it.

A kid can use anything as a weapon or object of destruction. I would eliminate any long stick/club like items while the littles are in your care. The problem is, you can't avoid everything. I once saw a child grab another child's head and give it a mighty twist (like you see in violent movies) that could have snapped the neck! I was across the room and couldn't get there fast enough but I yelled to get him to stop.

Be careful of what your children are watching on TV or the computer because they are learning harmful acts in full color.

I'm sorry to hear this happened but since your own child was involved, I wouldn't expect the other parent to pay for it. I would let them know what happened so they can avoid a future reoccurrence.
You're right, things can and do happen when we are RIGHT there. The difference is, we were supervising directly and could NOT prevent it. The OP's situation very easily could have been prevented if the children, who are known to destroy things and have behavioral issues, were directly supervised and did not have free range access to a baseball bat. Licensing would weigh the situation where a child was injured....if the provider was right there supervising and someone was injured she is FAR less likely to be held liable than if she was allowing them to play outside, alone.
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Willow 07:35 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Cripe, I've had a baby whacked with a toy as I was RIGHT THERE changing her. There's another post telling how her son's GI tube was ripped out in an instant by a 2 yo. She couldn't stop him. All those who bit@hed others out, you must all be saints. I am careful. I am over protective. I am intelligent. I am not lazy. I am not neglectful. I detest it when people judge others, read their own interpretations between the lines, get on their own high horses, etc.
Yes, crap like this on forums make me fearful of posting also.
If a child ripped out another childs GI tube, and then the provider gave that child the opportunity to do it again.....yes. That's a lack of supervision issue and there is no way around it. If I were said parent I would SUE THE LIVING CRAP out of a provider who was that level of negligent.

So you can be snarky, and snotty all you want. No one bit@hed her out so quit with the dramatics. The responses here were actually very diplomatic in my view and don't at all reflect the tone licensing themselves would take. If children are able to destroy stairs and fences they are definitely not being supervised by sight OR sound. That is beyond dangerous. It is definitely against licensing regs. It is absolutely light years difference away from a child hurting another when you are sitting right there. It's frightening that you don't see the stark difference between such VERY different issues.


If you want to dance around the fact that these multiple incidents could have resulted in someone getting seriously hurt and a provider losing their job then go ahead. But don't chastise those who choose honesty over a fake, everyone makes these mistakes, ego stroke.

Sounds like OP has a better plan in place for the future. In the end that is all that matters.
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Familycare71 08:06 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I'm not seeing where anyone "bitched" her out. I am seeing that we shared our opinions, gave advice and stated facts about the need to properly supervise. I MIGHT be wrong, but the original post was the TRUTH, which was later changed to meet the providers needs. So when reading that first post, it clearly states that the children were allowed to play outside, completely unsupervised, and property was destroyed. She clearly stated that she was inside cleaning the kitchen and preparing for the next meal....that is NOT a two minute deal, and the children were left alone long enough to use a BASEBALL BAT to destroy property. My advice may have come off as harsh......I don't WANT to seem like a b****, but if that is what it takes to make a VERY important point about the need for close supervision, especially of children who are KNOWN to destroy things, and to hopefully help prevent a MAJOR injury (which very well could have happened with a BASEBALL BAT) then I guess I am a b****.
I agree- first post and added info made a big diff to me- reading: kids who have destroyed stairs before destroy a wooden fence w a bat! That doesn't bring to my mind a small, fragile stick woven fence.
Cleaning up vs running inside quick make me think of two totally diff frames-

So that was where I was coming from- and honestly Chrystal- I didn't find you harsh at all
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butterfly 10:06 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by spud912:
Please don't take offense, but it sounds like a lack of supervision, therefore I would not charge. If these three siblings are prone to getting into things or destruction, then they need to be under your direct visual supervision at all times.

I understand your need to do things....I'm by myself all day as well. My children are at least under auditory supervision all day, but if there are 1 or 2 who are more prone to getting into trouble, then I provide activities for them under close visual supervision. For example, while I cook or clean in the kitchen, the children normally play in the playroom which is right next to the kitchen in an open floor plan. While I can hear everything, I can't see everything. For that reason, at least some of the clan (especially those who are prone to cause trouble), sit at the table right next to the kitchen with an activity (usually puzzles, playdough or arts and crafts) while I finish doing what I need to in the kitchen.

In the three years I've done this, I've never required a parent to replace something. It's not that anything hasn't been broken, it's that if it was broken it was most likely because I could have done something different and better to prevent it. If the damage was purposeful and done under my direct supervision (basically it was an occurrence I could have not avoided and the child did it with intent to destroy it), that is when I would charge the parents.

Now I do tell the parents when their child purposely destroy something and how I intend to prevent it in the future. I think it is important for parents to know that their child is being destructive. I hope this helps!

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Josiegirl 10:11 AM 08-21-2013
It wasn't just Crystal's post and this isn't the only thread I was talking about.
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Crystal 10:23 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
It wasn't just Crystal's post and this isn't the only thread I was talking about.
Which other thread(s) do you refer to?
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Angelsj 10:53 AM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I think if I read correctly the sitting on the couch was for her own child. can.licensing really dictate discipline for our own children?
Here they don't get into exactly what you can and can't do with your own child, except to say you cannot spank one of your own kids while daycare kids are present...so yes, they can dictate.
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misslori50 01:19 PM 08-21-2013
I cant imagine why there was a bat out there in the first place. Especially a bat strong enough to destroy a fence. scares the crap out if me.
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Cradle2crayons 02:34 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by misslori50:
I cant imagine why there was a bat out there in the first place. Especially a bat strong enough to destroy a fence. scares the crap out if me.
I have baseball bats outside. As well as two batting tees, softballs, baseballs, etc. soccer nets, soccer balls, baseball mounds, basketball goals, you name it, we have it.
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Crystal 03:16 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I have baseball bats outside. As well as two batting tees, softballs, baseballs, etc. soccer nets, soccer balls, baseball mounds, basketball goals, you name it, we have it.
Do you leave children with behavioral issues and a history of destroying property unsupervised around them? Because, that is the point. Baseball bats and hard balls....not the other stuff.
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Cradle2crayons 03:17 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Do you leave children with behavioral issues and a history of destroying property unsupervised around them? Because, that is the point. Baseball bats and hard balls....not the other stuff.
Well of course not. I was reacting to the pp response and being horrified about a baseball bat being available at all lol.
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Crystal 03:19 PM 08-21-2013
I think she was piggybacking off of my previous post about the bat being accessible to the children.
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Cradle2crayons 03:26 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I think she was piggybacking off of my previous post about the bat being accessible to the children.
Who knows, I only can respond to what she actually quoted.
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Michael 04:21 PM 08-21-2013
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
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Cradle2crayons 04:23 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
I have wanted to say this on several posts but personally I'm not much into being reprimanded for opinion lol. But no worries I'm not easy to get rid of lol.

you are STUCK with me!!
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nanglgrl 05:19 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
I agree Michael. I often feel very guarded on this forum and don't post as often as I used to because of some of the responses I see. It often feels like there is a group if providers on here that are the mean girls and who lash out at others instead of trying to guide or help them. I've wanted to speak up but then I feel it my paint a target on anything I post. I've often thought of leaving and probably will if things don't change. I don't feel like I enjoy this forum as much as I used to and instead feel like I come here out of habit.
If anyone thinks this post was some sort of threat to leave the forum and feels the need to comment for me to just leave or any other abrasive comment please don't.
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Kaddidle Care 05:35 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
Dang. She must have really taken it to heart.
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mom2many 05:40 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
I find this sad & disheartening that Crazy 8 decided to leave and totally agree with this. I haven't been on here much in the past few days and missed what transpired, but I have often thought some posts do come off a bit too judgemental and mean spirited. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i think members on this forum can truly benefit and learn new and better ways to run their businesses from others, BUT i truly believe it can be done in a more positive and diplomatic way.
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Familycare71 06:32 PM 08-21-2013
I just don't feel like I can keep up with the forum! I don't know... Maybe it's just me. All I do know is when I read the original post I was
As she explained and then recanted things seemed less severe - but how do readers know that!?
I love this forum because I feel like the dialog is great for learning and I love being able to vent occ and have people who do the same job understand-
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MyAngels 09:37 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Michael:
Well Crazy 8 decided to leave the forum. A new member no less. There is no reason why some of this needs to be so toxic. Lighten up. People come here for advice not reprimand.
That's really too bad. Unfortunately I think it's more common for newer members to leave than members who have stuck around for a bit. I'm sure it's hard to see past some of the perceived harshness until you become more familiar with the various personalities behind the screen names.
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Lyss 09:46 PM 08-21-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
I just don't feel like I can keep up with the forum! I don't know... Maybe it's just me. All I do know is when I read the original post I was
As she explained and then recanted things seemed less severe - but how do readers know that!?
I love this forum because I feel like the dialog is great for learning and I love being able to vent occ and have people who do the same job understand-


I'm lost too I guess, I popped in to see what OP's decision was and found all this. It didn't seem that uncivilized but maybe I'm used to it or something. I am a bit caught off guard that this is a thread worthy of a scolding to everyone who posted a response when there are many threads that have ended much worse. I personally didn't think this was that bad until the end and really it wasn't even about the OP or that rude IMO. That said it is sad to lose another member.

I agree though that things are getting a bit much, sometimes it seems like its more about "getting" another poster someone dislikes or making something personal rather than being helpful to the post. There's a lot of members that have disappeared over the last few months that I really miss and hope this trend doesn't continue! We have enough drama from our DCPs! Tomorrow's a new day and hopefully a step up!
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Josiegirl 03:19 AM 08-22-2013
I detest dogpiles and that's where it was going. I merely tried to show empathy for what she was going through and got accused of ego stroking. Well, maybe so. But I've seen it happen on other boards and I can't stand it. There are always those few who push their views and if you don't say yes yes yes to everything they say, you're ostracized. If I've learned anything in my 59 years of living, it's that *nothing* is as black and white as it would appear.

Yes, sometimes posters need to know the tone, or the personality behind the words written. Sometimes people are sensitive at heart. You have to develop a thick skin for some message boards and this is obviously one of them.
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Kaddidle Care 04:31 AM 08-22-2013
Not that new - she's been posting here for about 2 years. She's in my Town but we've never formally met.
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Familycare71 04:54 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
Not that new - she's been posting here for about 2 years. She's in my Town but we've never formally met.
There are two crazy 8... The one is crazy 8. This one was crazy_8! I only know because I posted on the other crazy 8 post... And got really confused! Lol
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Meyou 04:54 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I detest dogpiles and that's where it was going. I merely tried to show empathy for what she was going through and got accused of ego stroking. Well, maybe so. But I've seen it happen on other boards and I can't stand it. There are always those few who push their views and if you don't say yes yes yes to everything they say, you're ostracized. If I've learned anything in my 59 years of living, it's that *nothing* is as black and white as it would appear.

Yes, sometimes posters need to know the tone, or the personality behind the words written. Sometimes people are sensitive at heart. You have to develop a thick skin for some message boards and this is obviously one of them.
Don't you agree the incident wouldn't have happened if there was an adult outside? That is what the "view pushers" were pushing. If the children were supervised it wouldn't have happened. Just because the OP chose to be offended rather than seeing the wisdom of this advice isn't really their fault.

I used to be offended and frankly, a little scared of certain posters on this forum but now I think they speak sense most of the time. Often, we don't want to admit fault in ourselves and that is where the defensiveness happens and the "view pushers" follow.
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Familycare71 04:56 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Lyss:


I'm lost too I guess, I popped in to see what OP's decision was and found all this. It didn't seem that uncivilized but maybe I'm used to it or something. I am a bit caught off guard that this is a thread worthy of a scolding to everyone who posted a response when there are many threads that have ended much worse. I personally didn't think this was that bad until the end and really it wasn't even about the OP or that rude IMO. That said it is sad to lose another member.

I agree though that things are getting a bit much, sometimes it seems like its more about "getting" another poster someone dislikes or making something personal rather than being helpful to the post. There's a lot of members that have disappeared over the last few months that I really miss and hope this trend doesn't continue! We have enough drama from our DCPs! Tomorrow's a new day and hopefully a step up!
I do feel bad she left. I definitely don't want to insult or degrade anyone. I will temper my responses from now on...
Yes- I def have enough drama and am just looking for "co workers"
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Cradle2crayons 05:00 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Meyou:
Don't you agree the incident wouldn't have happened if there was an adult outside? That is what the "view pushers" were pushing. If the children were supervised it wouldn't have happened. Just because the OP chose to be offended rather than seeing the wisdom of this advice isn't really their fault.

I used to be offended and frankly, a little scared of certain posters on this forum but now I think they speak sense most of the time. Often, we don't want to admit fault in ourselves and that is where the defensiveness happens and the "view pushers" follow.
Wile I agree that it more than likely wouldn't have happened if the op had been outside, we never really know.

How many posts on here are about accidents and things that happen while e person is standing right there ??

Yes, most things are preventable. But what if the op had been outside and little Johnny fell off his bike and she was administering first aid and the kids who were innocently playing t ball took a swing and smashed something.

Yes, I agree that most everything can be prevented. But it's not always as black and white as we want it to be.
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Meyou 05:05 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
Wile I agree that it more than likely wouldn't have happened if the op had been outside, we never really know.

How many posts on here are about accidents and things that happen while e person is standing right there ??

Yes, most things are preventable. But what if the op had been outside and little Johnny fell off his bike and she was administering first aid and the kids who were innocently playing t ball took a swing and smashed something.

Yes, I agree that most everything can be prevented. But it's not always as black and white as we want it to be.
This post was not about something that happened when the provider was right there. It was about something that happened when she wasn't there concerning children with a history of destructive behavior according the OP's description.
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Cradle2crayons 05:15 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Meyou:
This post was not about something that happened when the provider was right there. It was about something that happened when she wasn't there concerning children with a history of destructive behavior according the OP's description.
I know what the post was about but I also quoted and commented to your mention that we all agree that it wouldn't have happened had the op been outside and I don't agree. As I said, things happen when yu are standing right there.

That's why I commented what I did.

If everything were 100% preventable, even when we are standing there, then why are there so many posts about biting. And 99% of e time, it's happened before and then happened several more times while being shadowed.
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Meyou 05:21 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I know what the post was about but I also quoted and commented to your mention that we all agree that it wouldn't have happened had the op been outside and I don't agree. As I said, things happen when yu are standing right there.

That's why I commented what I did.
They smashed 3 feet of fence with a bat.....there is no way that could happen in my yard while I was outside with them. Maybe in a different yard that would be possible but that type of destruction would not happen here if I was outside. I CAN say that for sure. They might get one hit but my goodness they would never even see a bat again if even that happened here.
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Cat Herder 05:35 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
There are two crazy 8... The one is crazy 8. This one was crazy_8! I only know because I posted on the other crazy 8 post... And got really confused! Lol
Perhaps THAT was part of the perceived problem.

I just looked over this thread and I assumed it was a long time poster as well....over two years. Someone who would already know the intent behind posters....

IMHO, Supervision topics are always a hot bed... We all come from different environments, communities, cultural backgrounds and have varying education levels. Thick skins and asking for clarification really becomes important when you cannot hear tone and intent.
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Familycare71 05:39 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
Perhaps THAT was part of the perceived problem.

I just looked over this thread and I assumed it was a long time poster as well....over two years. Someone who would already know the intent behind posters....

IMHO, Supervision topics are always a hot bed... We all come from different environments, communities, cultural backgrounds and have varying education levels. Thick skins and asking for clarification really becomes important when you cannot hear tone and intent.
I think it was part of it...
Yes- for me if the original post said: I ran into the house for a min and my two dck hit a small woven fence with a bat ... I would have responded much differently than I did-
And I am NEVER reading between the lines again- I learned! So I shall move forward
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Crystal 07:42 AM 08-22-2013
Call it a fault of mine, but I personally cannot dance around the fact that there was a complete lack of supervision, which resulted in destruction of property.....IMO she was lucky that it was a fence and not a child.

IRL....if this provider was standing in my living room, I would have likely been MORE direct. I cannot and will not ever "support" a provider who fails to do her most important job.....supervise to protect the health and safety of the children. I will advise and I will be critical in hope that she learns from her mistakes. Some times people need to hear the TRUTH about their mistakes, the REALITY of what can happen when they do not properly supervise. I feel that if I simply sit back and say nothing, then I am promoting and condoning unsafe child care practices. I am not saying I wouldn't care that the provider experienced something that was rattling for her....I DO care, but, in all honesty, I care about the CHILDREN first.

In the beginning of this thread, I did simply give advice. It wasn't until the OP began making excuses and changing her story that I personally became a little "irritated" and perhaps came off a little to harsh. But, I still stand by everything I said. I cannot understand WHY so many providers FAIL to understand the implications of not actively supervising children and then get offended when others address that very serious issue. I cannot understand WHY some providers "support" and "excuse" the failing to properly supervise, either.

I KNOW that we have ALL made mistakes. We are human. But, when you are given constructive criticism and then choose to take it personally rather than using it for what it is worth, then, I'm sorry, but that's on you.
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Crystal 07:49 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I detest dogpiles and that's where it was going. I merely tried to show empathy for what she was going through and got accused of ego stroking. Well, maybe so. But I've seen it happen on other boards and I can't stand it. There are always those few who push their views and if you don't say yes yes yes to everything they say, you're ostracized. If I've learned anything in my 59 years of living, it's that *nothing* is as black and white as it would appear.

Yes, sometimes posters need to know the tone, or the personality behind the words written. Sometimes people are sensitive at heart. You have to develop a thick skin for some message boards and this is obviously one of them.
I don't consider discussing the need to actively supervise "pushing views". It is our most important job. It is in every licensing regulation handbook there is. I think the advice she was given was very reasonable and it is too bad she took it personally, as the advice I gave her is the same advice I would give ANY provider who described what she described.

Empathy is one thing, excusing the error is completely different, and that IMO, is what you were doing when you stated that that these types of things could happen with the provider "right there". Here, THAT would never happen if I was right there. A whack over the head with a toy by a toddler, perhaps, destruction of three feet of fencing, NOT.
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Crystal 07:50 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Meyou:
Don't you agree the incident wouldn't have happened if there was an adult outside? That is what the "view pushers" were pushing. If the children were supervised it wouldn't have happened. Just because the OP chose to be offended rather than seeing the wisdom of this advice isn't really their fault.

I used to be offended and frankly, a little scared of certain posters on this forum but now I think they speak sense most of the time. Often, we don't want to admit fault in ourselves and that is where the defensiveness happens and the "view pushers" follow.
Thank you.
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Crystal 07:54 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Meyou:
They smashed 3 feet of fence with a bat.....there is no way that could happen in my yard while I was outside with them. Maybe in a different yard that would be possible but that type of destruction would not happen here if I was outside. I CAN say that for sure. They might get one hit but my goodness they would never even see a bat again if even that happened here.

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Josiegirl 10:43 AM 08-22-2013
I'm not excusing anyone's supervision or lack thereof. Personally, I have never been in her house, don't know what her field of vision is from her kitchen, don't know what her set-up is, don't know her or her methods. I don't know in exactly what proximity her children were, they could have been 3 feet outside an open door. If I didn't read it close enough, I'm sorry. All I'm saying is I've seen dogpiles here(the poopy nappers ring a bell?) and other forums, bad enough that people leave and I find that sad. We come to places like this for support, compassion, friendliness, not to be torn apart or put down.

In my own daycare the children's safety comes first and foremost. I am not condoning what she did or should've done. I WASN'T THERE. I never said she was right or wrong, all I said was things do happen in a blink of an eye, whether you're standing right beside that child or 3' away. FWIW, I don't let the kids have bats so it wouldn't be an issue here either. But I think all of that could have been said without the tone that seeped through.
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mom2many 10:50 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I'm not excusing anyone's supervision or lack thereof. Personally, I have never been in her house, don't know what her field of vision is from her kitchen, don't know what her set-up is. I don't know in exactly what proximity her children were, they could have been 3 feet outside an open door. If I didn't read it close enough, I'm sorry. All I'm saying is I've seen dogpiles here(the poopy nappers ring a bell?) and other forums, bad enough that people leave and I find that sad. We come to places like this for support, compassion, friendliness, not to be torn apart or put down.

In my own daycare the children's safety comes first and foremost. I am not condoning what she did or should've done. I WASN'T THERE. I never said she was right or wrong, all I said was things do happen in a blink of an eye, whether you're standing right beside that child or 3' away.
Well said. I totally agree! Children's safety is 100% foremost in importance to me as well.
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Angelsj 11:14 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
My advice:

No playing outside without adult supervision. They can sit inside until you are done cleaning up, if need be. I would not charge the Mom. You were not outside actively supervising, therefore she COULD get you in trouble. If they were able to that much damage, then they were unsupervised for far too long.
I understand where Josie is trying to go here. The above post is perfectly legit. It states your opinion, reasonable advice and a fair assessment of the situation.

Originally Posted by Crystal:
See, I am thinking people DO NOT realize how important and absolutely NECCESSARY it is to provide constant, direct supervision at all times! The baseball bat that destroyed that fencing could have easily cracked a head. No way a child should have free range access to what can become a deadly weapon.

I am sorry to the OP, I do not mean to be harsh. I am just baffled at the number of providers who nonchalantly blow off the fact that they were not directly supervising and then blame the children and want parents to bear responsibility for something that happened on the provider's watch. or the provider tries to "explain away" injuries to children when they failed to adequately supervise and protect their safety.

Frankly, I am sick of it.
This one on the other hand (totally in my opinion) goes too far. Even though you say "I don't mean to be harsh," it is harsh. Just like someone saying "no offense but..." really means they are about to offend. I have seen much worse on this forum than anything that happened on this thread. I just think we can say what we feel without getting off into venomous territory where it just feels like everyone is attacking.

If you are interested in the difference, look at the "nap poopers" thread. Black Cat (who agrees with you and Nan, Crystal) stated her OPINION without feeling the need to put anyone else down. She got her ideas across, and insulted no one.
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Familycare71 11:25 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I understand where Josie is trying to go here. The above post is perfectly legit. It states your opinion, reasonable advice and a fair assessment of the situation.



This one on the other hand (totally in my opinion) goes too far. Even though you say "I don't mean to be harsh," it is harsh. Just like someone saying "no offense but..." really means they are about to offend. I have seen much worse on this forum than anything that happened on this thread. I just think we can say what we feel without getting off into venomous territory where it just feels like everyone is attacking.

If you are interested in the difference, look at the "nap poopers" thread. Black Cat (who agrees with you and Nan, Crystal) stated her OPINION without feeling the need to put anyone else down. She got her ideas across, and insulted no one.
I agree
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nanglgrl 11:41 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I understand where Josie is trying to go here. The above post is perfectly legit. It states your opinion, reasonable advice and a fair assessment of the situation.



This one on the other hand (totally in my opinion) goes too far. Even though you say "I don't mean to be harsh," it is harsh. Just like someone saying "no offense but..." really means they are about to offend. I have seen much worse on this forum than anything that happened on this thread. I just think we can say what we feel without getting off into venomous territory where it just feels like everyone is attacking.

If you are interested in the difference, look at the "nap poopers" thread. Black Cat (who agrees with you and Nan, Crystal) stated her OPINION without feeling the need to put anyone else down. She got her ideas across, and insulted no one.

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Kaddidle Care 11:44 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Familycare71:
There are two crazy 8... The one is crazy 8. This one was crazy_8! I only know because I posted on the other crazy 8 post... And got really confused! Lol
OOOOHHH! I made a booboo! Wrong person.
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CedarCreek 11:49 AM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I'm not excusing anyone's supervision or lack thereof. Personally, I have never been in her house, don't know what her field of vision is from her kitchen, don't know what her set-up is, don't know her or her methods. I don't know in exactly what proximity her children were, they could have been 3 feet outside an open door. If I didn't read it close enough, I'm sorry. All I'm saying is I've seen dogpiles here(the poopy nappers ring a bell?) and other forums, bad enough that people leave and I find that sad. We come to places like this for support, compassion, friendliness, not to be torn apart or put down.

In my own daycare the children's safety comes first and foremost. I am not condoning what she did or should've done. I WASN'T THERE. I never said she was right or wrong, all I said was things do happen in a blink of an eye, whether you're standing right beside that child or 3' away. FWIW, I don't let the kids have bats so it wouldn't be an issue here either. But I think all of that could have been said without the tone that seeped through.
This^^^ I like it.
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Crystal 12:04 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I understand where Josie is trying to go here. The above post is perfectly legit. It states your opinion, reasonable advice and a fair assessment of the situation.



This one on the other hand (totally in my opinion) goes too far. Even though you say "I don't mean to be harsh," it is harsh. Just like someone saying "no offense but..." really means they are about to offend. I have seen much worse on this forum than anything that happened on this thread. I just think we can say what we feel without getting off into venomous territory where it just feels like everyone is attacking.

If you are interested in the difference, look at the "nap poopers" thread. Black Cat (who agrees with you and Nan, Crystal) stated her OPINION without feeling the need to put anyone else down. She got her ideas across, and insulted no one.

Okay, this, I can respect. In this post, I will admit, I allowed my irritation with a couple of other threads regarding lack of supervision to influence the tone of the post and message I was trying to convey. I do apologize for that, and will try to be more thoughtful of that in the future.

I will say though that the beginning of that post, I still stand by:

See, I am thinking people DO NOT realize how important and absolutely NECCESSARY it is to provide constant, direct supervision at all times! The baseball bat that destroyed that fencing could have easily cracked a head. No way a child should have free range access to what can become a deadly weapon.


This part I will apologize for:

I am sorry to the OP, I do not mean to be harsh. I am just baffled at the number of providers who nonchalantly blow off the fact that they were not directly supervising and then blame the children and want parents to bear responsibility for something that happened on the provider's watch. or the provider tries to "explain away" injuries to children when they failed to adequately supervise and protect their safety.

Frankly, I am sick of it.

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craftymissbeth 12:28 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Okay, this, I can respect. In this post, I will admit, I allowed my irritation with a couple of other threads regarding lack of supervision to influence the tone of the post and message I was trying to convey. I do apologize for that, and will try to be more thoughtful of that in the future.

I will say though that the beginning of that post, I still stand by:

See, I am thinking people DO NOT realize how important and absolutely NECCESSARY it is to provide constant, direct supervision at all times! The baseball bat that destroyed that fencing could have easily cracked a head. No way a child should have free range access to what can become a deadly weapon.


This part I will apologize for:

I am sorry to the OP, I do not mean to be harsh. I am just baffled at the number of providers who nonchalantly blow off the fact that they were not directly supervising and then blame the children and want parents to bear responsibility for something that happened on the provider's watch. or the provider tries to "explain away" injuries to children when they failed to adequately supervise and protect their safety.

Frankly, I am sick of it.
Crystal, I just want to start out by saying that I enjoy reading a lot of the advice that you give on here and I love that you think of the children first. With that said, though, I've noticed that in quite a few of the threads you post in you go back and apologize or admit that you've allowed your temper to get the best of you.
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Crystal 12:45 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Crystal, I just want to start out by saying that I enjoy reading a lot of the advice that you give on here and I love that you think of the children first. With that said, though, I've noticed that in quite a few of the threads you post in you go back and apologize or admit that you've allowed your temper to get the best of you.
Thank you. And yes, there have been a couple of times. Not quite a few, but a couple I do admit. Not necessarily losing my temper, but saying things that were unnecessary, yes. I suppose I could just not apologize though.
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MyAngels 01:01 PM 08-22-2013
All right, who put the tag on this thread? .

Sorry to veer OT yet again .
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Blackcat31 01:04 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by MyAngels:
All right, who put the tag on this thread? .
I know, I laughed when I read that.
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Blackcat31 01:06 PM 08-22-2013
..... okay, this thread is no longer about supervision and/or destruction of property, it has sadly become a debate about who's opinion/thoughts/views are right and who's are wrong.

Most times, as a moderator I hesitate to step in and say anything as I feel we are all grown ups and can manage a little flack on our own, but lately I have noticed that there are lots of posters who are losing site of the topic and simply saying "I'm right." (NOT in those words but you all kwim)

I think that the ONE common theme in ALL threads is that we all do things differently.

What one provider views as not acceptable has worked for years for another provider and vice versa. Life is funny like that....

I think that what we all need to stop and remember that just because we feel strongly about something, that it doesn't give us permission to insult, judge, taunt or be cruel to someone else who doesn't agree.

I can think of TONS of topics/situations that have popped up on this forum that I feel strongly about.

I also realize that those strong feelings are MY feelings...not everyone else's.

I am the type of provider who doesn't let my DCK's do ALOT of things simply out of fear that it could come back and bite me in the butt liability-wise.

My friend who is also a provider is the type of provider that allows her DCK's to behave the same way as her own kids. They ride bikes around the neighborhood (without helmets), play with sticks and baseball bats.

When I ask her why she lets them do those things when it could be a problem that results in injury, she says "Well until it is, I don't have a problem with it"

She isn't doing anything wrong...she is just doing things differently.

DIFFERENT 100% from my views but not at all WRONG. Just different.


Heck, I let my kiddos play with those foam fun noodles (used for swimming) the other day outside, without me being present. Did I think it was a safe activity? Absolutely!! Little did I know that if you swing one of those things hard enough, you can give someone a fat lip with it!

Am a bad or negligent provider for letting one of my 5 yr olds get a fat lip? I don't think so and neither does the parent.

It happens. There is really not much we can do as providers (other than bubble wrap our daycare kids) that will 100% protect them from ALL injury. It is just not going to happen.

As far as delivery of opinions go, I do think there is an art to saying what you want to say and yet not alienating and/or insulting the listener.

Some of the harsher posts to the OP really did NOTHING but drive her away.

It certainly didn't help her understand or teach her anything. Now instead of her learning from her experiences or mistakes, she will continue to do what she has always done and IMHO be far worse off than she was before she came looking for advice.

Delivery of your message is sometimes as equally important as the message itself.

As a moderator, I ask all of you who have given OP advice or stated your opinion to stop replying or posting in this thread if your post isn't about the topic.

There is no point to continue arguing who is right and who is wrong when the person asking for help/guidance can no longer hear or cares.



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Willow 01:21 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Meyou:
Don't you agree the incident wouldn't have happened if there was an adult outside? That is what the "view pushers" were pushing. If the children were supervised it wouldn't have happened. Just because the OP chose to be offended rather than seeing the wisdom of this advice isn't really their fault.

I used to be offended and frankly, a little scared of certain posters on this forum but now I think they speak sense most of the time. Often, we don't want to admit fault in ourselves and that is where the defensiveness happens and the "view pushers" follow.
Amen.



To add, everyone has hard and soft lines. This issue may be seen by some as a soft line or even no big deal at all....it after all WASN'T another child and no one ACTUALLY got hurt.

Then there are those who would see it as a hard line. The repetition of the scenario. The what if's. The liabilities both on providers end as well as the parents who are entrusting us with the beings most precious in their lives.


We are ALWAYS going to respond strongly to our own personal hard lines. Expecting everyone's lines will be the same or expecting everyone to refrain from showing any sort of visceral reaction to that which upsets, angers, saddens or straight up horrifies us is truly unrealistic. We are human. We are passionate.

I've seen issues a lot more minor (in my mind) get blown to kingdom come. Just because it wasn't a hard line issue FOR ME doesn't mean it's not for someone else. Certainly doesn't give me the right to tell them to shush, simply because my undies aren't in a wad over it the same way.

We are the sum of our life experiences.

I think it's wrong to cap other people's feelings simply because we can't relate to where they're coming from.

What a dreadfully boring and potentially dangerous world we'd live in if everyone held the exact same opinion, never voiced concern or looked at a situation from a different angle.



The wisest individuals I know are the most open minded, not content being a stifled conformist. They also seem to have the most to offer those around them which is why I'll generally keep my ear open when they speak in my direction. The last thing I'd ever want is to hear a bunch of "It's ok! You're awesome!!!"'s if there was genuinely cause for serious concern and room for improvement. What the heck good would that do anyone???
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Crystal 01:54 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Willow:
Amen.



To add, everyone has hard and soft lines. This issue may be seen by some as a soft line or even no big deal at all....it after all WASN'T another child and no one ACTUALLY got hurt.

Then there are those who would see it as a hard line. The repetition of the scenario. The what if's. The liabilities both on providers end as well as the parents who are entrusting us with the beings most precious in their lives.


We are ALWAYS going to respond strongly to our own personal hard lines. Expecting everyone's lines will be the same or expecting everyone to refrain from showing any sort of visceral reaction to that which upsets, angers, saddens or straight up horrifies us is truly unrealistic. We are human. We are passionate.

I've seen issues a lot more minor (in my mind) get blown to kingdom come. Just because it wasn't a hard line issue FOR ME doesn't mean it's not for someone else. Certainly doesn't give me the right to tell them to shush, simply because my undies aren't in a wad over it the same way.

We are the sum of our life experiences.

I think it's wrong to cap other people's feelings simply because we can't relate to where they're coming from.

What a dreadfully boring and potentially dangerous world we'd live in if everyone held the exact same opinion, never voiced concern or looked at a situation from a different angle.



The wisest individuals I know are the most open minded, not content being a stifled conformist. They also seem to have the most to offer those around them which is why I'll generally keep my ear open when they speak in my direction. The last thing I'd ever want is to hear a bunch of "It's ok! You're awesome!!!"'s if there was genuinely cause for serious concern and room for improvement. What the heck good would that do anyone???

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Crystal 01:55 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
..... okay, this thread is no longer about supervision and/or destruction of property, it has sadly become a debate about who's opinion/thoughts/views are right and who's are wrong.

Most times, as a moderator I hesitate to step in and say anything as I feel we are all grown ups and can manage a little flack on our own, but lately I have noticed that there are lots of posters who are losing site of the topic and simply saying "I'm right." (NOT in those words but you all kwim)

I think that the ONE common theme in ALL threads is that we all do things differently.

What one provider views as not acceptable has worked for years for another provider and vice versa. Life is funny like that....

I think that what we all need to stop and remember that just because we feel strongly about something, that it doesn't give us permission to insult, judge, taunt or be cruel to someone else who doesn't agree.

I can think of TONS of topics/situations that have popped up on this forum that I feel strongly about.

I also realize that those strong feelings are MY feelings...not everyone else's.

I am the type of provider who doesn't let my DCK's do ALOT of things simply out of fear that it could come back and bite me in the butt liability-wise.

My friend who is also a provider is the type of provider that allows her DCK's to behave the same way as her own kids. They ride bikes around the neighborhood (without helmets), play with sticks and baseball bats.

When I ask her why she lets them do those things when it could be a problem that results in injury, she says "Well until it is, I don't have a problem with it"

She isn't doing anything wrong...she is just doing things differently.

DIFFERENT 100% from my views but not at all WRONG. Just different.


Heck, I let my kiddos play with those foam fun noodles (used for swimming) the other day outside, without me being present. Did I think it was a safe activity? Absolutely!! Little did I know that if you swing one of those things hard enough, you can give someone a fat lip with it!

Am a bad or negligent provider for letting one of my 5 yr olds get a fat lip? I don't think so and neither does the parent.

It happens. There is really not much we can do as providers (other than bubble wrap our daycare kids) that will 100% protect them from ALL injury. It is just not going to happen.

As far as delivery of opinions go, I do think there is an art to saying what you want to say and yet not alienating and/or insulting the listener.

Some of the harsher posts to the OP really did NOTHING but drive her away.

It certainly didn't help her understand or teach her anything. Now instead of her learning from her experiences or mistakes, she will continue to do what she has always done and IMHO be far worse off than she was before she came looking for advice.

Delivery of your message is sometimes as equally important as the message itself.

As a moderator, I ask all of you who have given OP advice or stated your opinion to stop replying or posting in this thread if your post isn't about the topic.

There is no point to continue arguing who is right and who is wrong when the person asking for help/guidance can no longer hear or cares.


Gotcha
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Angelsj 02:12 PM 08-22-2013
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Okay, this, I can respect.
Thank you for taking that in the spirit in which it was intended.
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Tags:28 day cycle, consequences
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