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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Is It Appropriate To Take A Quick Shower While The Kids Are Napping?
Guest 08:05 AM 11-27-2013
I had an infant vomit on me today. I just feel extremely gross!!!! Do you think it is appropriate to take a quick shower while the kids are napping?
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Unregistered 08:12 AM 11-27-2013
No! Never! Sorry you stink! Blah!
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hope 08:15 AM 11-27-2013
I have. I also let all the parents know at pick up. None were bothered by it. I left the bathroom door open and took a 5 minute shower. I think they would rather that then me walk around in vomit around their children.
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TwinKristi 08:19 AM 11-27-2013
I would... if everyone is sleeping and your door was open I don't see why not. It's not like you do it every day, but it's sort of an emergency!
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Unregistered 08:26 AM 11-27-2013
I would never risk it. The chances of something happening are very slim but if they did how would you explain it. Not worth it! Use a a baby wipe,you'll be fine until after work.
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MamaBearCanada 08:27 AM 11-27-2013
I am legally unlicensed. I would shower and change clothes immediately if I had vomit on me. I wouldn't even wait til naptime. Vomit is a contaminant and can transmit germs, especially things like norovirus. It is unhygienic as well as unpleasant. I would gate off older children in a safe area and make sure little ones were safe in a high chair or crib in a separate area. Take a monitor into the bathroom or leave the door open and go fast. I'd probably put a kids show on for the older kids. It's rare I do so they'd be unlikely to move while it was on. I go to the bathroom with DCK are here and I shower fast so I wouldn't be in there much longer than a bathroom run.

Edited to add: this is for actual vomit - spit up I would use wipes and wait til nap or til the kids went home depending how bad it was.
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Blackcat31 08:28 AM 11-27-2013
This was a HUGE topic of conversation on Cafemom.

NO! It is NEVER appropriate to shower while child care kids are present in your home.

Change your clothes and wait until you are off the clock before showering.
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Heidi 08:28 AM 11-27-2013
absolutely...

Wait until nap if possible, leave the door open, and make it quick.

oh pooh, BC and I disagree.

My regs say sight or sound. I would bring the baby monitor in with me to comply.

I only have 4 kids, though, and they all sleep in pnp's.
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Unregistered 08:29 AM 11-27-2013
It's baby spit up! No one's going to catch some disease from it.Calm down!
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Unregistered 08:31 AM 11-27-2013
As black cat said- no,never!
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MamaBearCanada 08:32 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
It's baby spit up! No one's going to catch some disease from it.Calm down!
OP said vomit not spit up. Here infants are 2yrs and under.
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TwinKristi 08:34 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
absolutely...

Wait until nap if possible, leave the door open, and make it quick.

oh pooh, BC and I disagree.

My regs say sight or sound. I would bring the baby monitor in with me to comply.

I only have 4 kids, though, and they all sleep in pnp's.
I was just curious as to what the regs would say and if I can have them in my gated backyard unattended while I'm within an earshot of them, why couldn't you use the shower quickly if children are all asleep and you have a monitor or door open?
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Blackcat31 08:34 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Heidi:
absolutely...

Wait until nap if possible, leave the door open, and make it quick.

oh pooh, BC and I disagree.

My regs say sight or sound. I would bring the baby monitor in with me to comply.

I only have 4 kids, though, and they all sleep in pnp's.
My licensing says sight OR sound too but the risk is simply too high.

If and that's a BIG if, but IF something happened during those 5 minutes I was in the shower, I couldn't live with myself and I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain or justify my actions.

Like a PP said, it's baby puke. Whatever...most of us have had worse "stuff" on us.

I don't know...I am NOT a girly-girl and stuff like that doesn't gross me out, freak me out of make me uncomfortable. I knew this job was messy going in.

Also just because we work in our homes, doesn't mean that it's ok to take care of personal needs besides eating and toileting while we are on the clock.

What would a center provider do?

A preschool teacher?

An elementary school teacher?
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Unregistered 08:43 AM 11-27-2013
It vomit. I believe the child has the stomach virus going around. I missed the discussion on Cafemom about this, I haven't been on there in awhile. Would someone mind posting a link? I'm not sure what I will do. If it was just on my clothes it wouldn't be as big of a deal but it went down my shirt. I haven't made a decision yet on what to do...
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cara041083 08:52 AM 11-27-2013
NO NO NO! Change your clothes and us a rag to wipe off. If its in your hair stick your head in the sink. There are way to many things that can happen or go wrong.
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Blackcat31 08:53 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
It vomit. I believe the child has the stomach virus going around. I missed the discussion on Cafemom about this, I haven't been on there in awhile. Would someone mind posting a link? I'm not sure what I will do. If it was just on my clothes it wouldn't be as big of a deal but it went down my shirt. I haven't made a decision yet on what to do...
Here are two links to the discussion.

Here is the original thread:

http://www.cafemom.com/group/115189/...re_provider_if

Here is the spin off of that thread
http://www.cafemom.com/group/115189/...naptime_Add_on
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Scout 08:55 AM 11-27-2013
I do. I hop in about the time my dh will be home because I work at 5pm and need to eat dinner, etc. before I go in. Al
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Scout 08:56 AM 11-27-2013
I do. I hop in about the time my dh will be home because I work at 5pm and need to eat dinner, etc. before I go in. All exits are bolted and chained and baby gate is up to block stairs. The little guy is in a pnp and all others on cots. These kids are 2-4 yrs old. I shower with my own kids asleep so I don't see the difference.
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jenboo 08:57 AM 11-27-2013
I would jump in the shower at nap time. I would put my shower cap on and be in and out in two minutes. Just a super quick scrub with soap.
It takes me longer than that to poop and i dont wait for naptime to do that.

If i worked at a center, I would go home on my lunch break and take a quick shower.

Yes it is a risk but i dont see it being more of a risk than pooping with the children there.
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cara041083 08:58 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by MamaBearCanada:
I am legally unlicensed. I would shower and change clothes immediately if I had vomit on me. I wouldn't even wait til naptime. Vomit is a contaminant and can transmit germs, especially things like norovirus. It is unhygienic as well as unpleasant. I would gate off older children in a safe area and make sure little ones were safe in a high chair or crib in a separate area. Take a monitor into the bathroom or leave the door open and go fast. I'd probably put a kids show on for the older kids. It's rare I do so they'd be unlikely to move while it was on. I go to the bathroom with DCK are here and I shower fast so I wouldn't be in there much longer than a bathroom run.

Edited to add: this is for actual vomit - spit up I would use wipes and wait til nap or til the kids went home depending how bad it was.
OK not to be rude, but what if that child you stuck in a high chair decided to try to get out and fell. Or the older kids accidentally saw you naked? Or stuck something in there mouth and choked? Then what would you tell the parents as to why they was in a highchair unsupervised or saw you naked. or why they were unsupervised in general. If I was that parent you had to explain that too I would not be too happy Nor would I want my provider taking showers while they are supposed to be watching my kids.
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Unregistered 09:01 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Here are two links to the discussion.

Here is the original thread:

http://www.cafemom.com/group/115189/...re_provider_if

Here is the spin off of that thread
http://www.cafemom.com/group/115189/...naptime_Add_on
Thank you !
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Unregistered 09:02 AM 11-27-2013
Personally, baby vomit-- especially after a bottle? No. A child's vomit, especially with a temp and with the Noro and Enterovirus being prevalent? Not a shower but definitely a change of clothes would be in order. In fact, we have it in our policies. Where I work per diem two weekends per month we are required to change our scrubs if we get human waste, blood, or infectious fluids on our clothing. Period. I think the same would apply in the home. I would also wipe down my exposed skin with antibacterial wipes and all exposed surfaces. But, that's just me and the type of environment we run here. It happens quite often and no parent has ever been upset. We tell our staff to keep a couple changes of clothes here in their lockers.
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MamaBearCanada 09:02 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My licensing says sight OR sound too but the risk is simply too high.

If and that's a BIG if, but IF something happened during those 5 minutes I was in the shower, I couldn't live with myself and I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain or justify my actions.

Like a PP said, it's baby puke. Whatever...most of us have had worse "stuff" on us.

I don't know...I am NOT a girly-girl and stuff like that doesn't gross me out, freak me out of make me uncomfortable. I knew this job was messy going in.

Also just because we work in our homes, doesn't mean that it's ok to take care of personal needs besides eating and toileting while we are on the clock.

What would a center provider do?

A preschool teacher?

An elementary school teacher?
Here a teacher would get Admin to cover their class and shower or at least wash and change at school. There is no way the union would stand for someone working covered in vomit. It is a health risk for the teacher and other students.
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Blackcat31 09:04 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Thank you !
No problem, but just a word of warning....those ladies over there are MAJOR drama mama's and I don't think anyone really monitors that group but you "might" be able to get a little perspective from parents by reading it.

If not, then it will at least be somewhat entertaining to read.

Honestly, this is maybe something you should just bring up to your parents and give them the details of what happened today (baby vomiting on you) and see what they say/think and how they feel about it.

Their opinions are really the only ones that matter.
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Blackcat31 09:05 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by MamaBearCanada:
Here a teacher would get Admin to cover their class and shower or at least wash and change at school. There is no way the union would stand for someone working covered in vomit. It is a health risk for the teacher and other students.
But someone else is supervising the kids so....
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TwinKristi 09:09 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by cara041083:
OK not to be rude, but what if that child you stuck in a high chair decided to try to get out and fell. Or the older kids accidentally saw you naked? Or stuck something in there mouth and choked? Then what would you tell the parents as to why they was in a highchair unsupervised or saw you naked. or why they were unsupervised in general. If I was that parent you had to explain that too I would not be too happy Nor would I want my provider taking showers while they are supposed to be watching my kids.
I'm not that poster, but the same thing could happen if you went to use the restroom and washed your hands. The same thing could happen while you changed a really messy diaper. Or perhaps like the provider recently who was right there when a child picked up a toy they shouldn't have had access to and perhaps swallowed it. I understand your point, but I have been stuck going to the bathroom (TMI but sometimes after having your gallbladder removed you have some nasty BMs when you eat certain foods... not always the same foods!) while the kids were asleep and I was so thankful this happened during nap time and not while they were all awake!
I guess thinking as a parent myself, if my baby threw up all over my provider and she waited until naptime to take a quick shower, I really wouldn't mind. But I have faced far worse actions from a provider so I guess it's all relative.
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Unregistered 09:09 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
No problem, but just a word of warning....those ladies over there are MAJOR drama mama's and I don't think anyone really monitors that group but you "might" be able to get a little perspective from parents by reading it.

If not, then it will at least be somewhat entertaining to read.

Honestly, this is maybe something you should just bring up to your parents and give them the details of what happened today (baby vomiting on you) and see what they say/think and how they feel about it.

Their opinions are really the only ones that matter.

I haven't ever been to the mom confessions group there before. I have only read a few comments and I see what you mean!! The discussion will be my entertainment during nap time! Lol!
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MamaBearCanada 09:12 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by cara041083:
OK not to be rude, but what if that child you stuck in a high chair decided to try to get out and fell. Or the older kids accidentally saw you naked? Or stuck something in there mouth and choked? Then what would you tell the parents as to why they was in a highchair unsupervised or saw you naked. or why they were unsupervised in general. If I was that parent you had to explain that too I would not be too happy Nor would I want my provider taking showers while they are supposed to be watching my kids.
If you don't feel comfortable with them strapped in a highchair put them in a pack and play. I was making the assumption that the provider would leave them in a safe area without having to list every detail. If DCK are in a safe area i am assuming there is nothing for them to climb, no choking hazards etc. They would be no more unsupervised than when you go to the bathroom. Also not sure how they would see me naked if they didn't have access to the bathroom? Also, here being within sound is not considered unsupervised.

I would prefer my provider take a QUICK shower than have vomit on their person that my child could come into contact with. I would not recommend taking a shower because you skipped it in the am but to wash off bodily fluids then yes.
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MamaBearCanada 09:13 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
But someone else is supervising the kids so....
Good point...

But then if the provider can hear them and within sight Or sound is allowed aren't the DCK also being supervised?
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Blackcat31 09:16 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I'm not that poster, but the same thing could happen if you went to use the restroom and washed your hands. The same thing could happen while you changed a really messy diaper. Or perhaps like the provider recently who was right there when a child picked up a toy they shouldn't have had access to and perhaps swallowed it. I understand your point, but I have been stuck going to the bathroom (TMI but sometimes after having your gallbladder removed you have some nasty BMs when you eat certain foods... not always the same foods!) while the kids were asleep and I was so thankful this happened during nap time and not while they were all awake!
I guess thinking as a parent myself, if my baby threw up all over my provider and she waited until naptime to take a quick shower, I really wouldn't mind. But I have faced far worse actions from a provider so I guess it's all relative.
If something did happen during the day while you were busy...it sure would be a lot easier to explain to licensing, parents etc that I was changing a poopy diaper when xx incident occurred verses having to explain that I was taking a 5 minute shower.

Yes, things can happen at ANY time and sadly what you (providers in general) were doing during that time will be important if that "something" is really serious.

Just not a risk I think providers should take.
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Blackcat31 09:18 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by MamaBearCanada:
Good point...

But then if the provider can hear them and within sight Or sound is allowed aren't the DCK also being supervised?
My same line of thinking in reply to TwinKristi applies here too.

I'd rather explain my lack of supervision due to a child's needs verses taking care of my own. kwim?
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TwinKristi 09:19 AM 11-27-2013
I didn't real all 250+ posts obviously but even just a few were kinda silly! I find it a lot different though when a provider just "decided to take a shower" because she had a busy morning vs washing off baby vomit quickly. I personally wouldn't care either way IF my child was asleep and in a crib or contained with the exterior doors locked and a monitor or within sound. I personally have never showered with daycare kids here, even after I've been pooped on, spit up on, etc. I just take a gypsy shower with diaper wipes and some good antibacterial soap and change my clothes.
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Unregistered 09:30 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My licensing says sight OR sound too but the risk is simply too high.

If and that's a BIG if, but IF something happened during those 5 minutes I was in the shower, I couldn't live with myself and I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain or justify my actions.

Like a PP said, it's baby puke. Whatever...most of us have had worse "stuff" on us.

I don't know...I am NOT a girly-girl and stuff like that doesn't gross me out, freak me out of make me uncomfortable. I knew this job was messy going in.

Also just because we work in our homes, doesn't mean that it's ok to take care of personal needs besides eating and toileting while we are on the clock.

What would a center provider do?

A preschool teacher?

An elementary school teacher?
This!
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 10:06 AM 11-27-2013
I would not shower while kids are present. Change clothes, wipe off yes. Shower, no. Yesterday, I had one of my kidlets have a dream and cry out and if I hadn't been right there he would have easily awoken all of them and caused chaos! I do stay either in the playroom or at the table in the breakfast nook (can fully see playroom) during naptime. I wouldn't go upstairs to put clothes away or anything during naptime.
So what if you were in the shower and the smoke detector went off. If I was using the bathroom I would be done at that moment. If you had the monitor in the bathroom and you heard someone screaming, what would you do? Run out dripping with a towel around you?

And per licensing I cannot have pre school aged kids outside without me in the yard.

I would have to call troll on this whole post though....
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Annalee 10:09 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
This was a HUGE topic of conversation on Cafemom.

NO! It is NEVER appropriate to shower while child care kids are present in your home.

Change your clothes and wait until you are off the clock before showering.


I would wait to shower till kids were gone for fear of licensing, health, fire or food program persons coming in.
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Rachel 10:10 AM 11-27-2013
I also agree it's a risk I wouldn't take. I'm surprised no one else has neighbors around. I would ask someone to come over at naptime so I could take a quick shower and change (or right away if it was really gross). If no one was around and I was covered, I'd go in the bathroom, take off my clothing, wash up well in the sink and put on fresh clothes. I've been thrown up on and clothing is usually a pretty good barrier.
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itlw8 10:11 AM 11-27-2013
vomit so the parent is coming to pick up I would ask dcm if she could stay for a few so I could take a quick shower. ut if it was my own child so no one was coming I would go grab clean clothes and do a sponge bath as I changed.
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jokalima 10:21 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
My licensing says sight OR sound too but the risk is simply too high.

If and that's a BIG if, but IF something happened during those 5 minutes I was in the shower, I couldn't live with myself and I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain or justify my actions.

Like a PP said, it's baby puke. Whatever...most of us have had worse "stuff" on us.

I don't know...I am NOT a girly-girl and stuff like that doesn't gross me out, freak me out of make me uncomfortable. I knew this job was messy going in.

Also just because we work in our homes, doesn't mean that it's ok to take care of personal needs besides eating and toileting while we are on the clock.

What would a center provider do?

A preschool teacher?

An elementary school teacher?

When I used to work in a center a sick toddler vomited all over me, my face. my hair, my clothes, all over. I told the Head Teacher I had to go home shower and come back and she told me to wait until nap time and I could go and come back. I would not have stayed the entire day with puke on my clothes and hair.
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Unregistered 10:23 AM 11-27-2013
I read the forum about showering on Cafemom. You did warn me! A lot of those comments are just plain ridiculous, some had my blood boiling. Like that providers work for them, it is our business and we provide a service but we are not their employee.

I was having a hard time deciding what I should do, no one could stop by for a bit. I decided on a sponge bath until the daycare child leaves. I only have one now since the baby is sick and left. Mom had already left with the child before I posted. Otherwise that would have been a great solution!

I'm not a troll! Not sure why you think that?
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jokalima 10:24 AM 11-27-2013
I can see there are diff opinions on this one. The way I see it, if I had to go to do # 2 to the toilet I will take about 5 minutes minimun. Don't always do it, but I do suffer from IBS so when I when I need to go, it means exactly that, I need to go. I put the baby in the playpen, the older ones will watch TV and I will use the toilet with the door open, so for me , in a case like this will be almost the same, but I would only do it during nap time.
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Blackcat31 10:28 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I read the forum about showering on Cafemom. You did warn me! A lot of those comments are just plain ridiculous, some had my blood boiling. Like that providers work for them, it is our business and we provide a service but we are not their employee.

I was having a hard time deciding what I should do, no one could stop by for a bit. I decided on a sponge bath until the daycare child leaves. I only have one now since the baby is sick and left. Mom had already left with the child before I posted. Otherwise that would have been a great solution!

I'm not a troll! Not sure why you think that?
Yep, I warned you

WAY too much drama for me over there...the only reason I even saw that thread was because it was posted on the front page of Cafemom as a Hot Topic/suggested reading.

There is a providers group on Cafemom that discussed this topic as well but the group is a private one you have to request membership so I didn't link to it because you can't read it unless you are a member but that discussion was much more friendly and more understanding. The general consensus was that they would wait too.

Better to be safe than sorry in my opinion.

Sorry this happened to you.

As for the troll comment...most HOT TOPIC super debatable threads are started by unregistered trolls. Often times, members will assume that is the case if the subject matter is touchy....

I will vouch for you though and say you are NOT a troll. I recognize your posts as being a frequent unreg poster so it's all good.

You should consider registering...there are some great perks to being a member...such as the Off Topic section where there are lots of hot topics happening..

Seriously, if you aren't a member already, please consider it.
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Unregistered 10:38 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yep, I warned you

WAY too much drama for me over there...the only reason I even saw that thread was because it was posted on the front page of Cafemom as a Hot Topic/suggested reading.

There is a providers group on Cafemom that discussed this topic as well but the group is a private one you have to request membership so I didn't link to it because you can't read it unless you are a member but that discussion was much more friendly and more understanding. The general consensus was that they would wait too.

Better to be safe than sorry in my opinion.

Sorry this happened to you.

As for the troll comment...most HOT TOPIC super debatable threads are started by unregistered trolls. Often times, members will assume that is the case if the subject matter is touchy....

I will vouch for you though and say you are NOT a troll. I recognize your posts as being a frequent unreg poster so it's all good.

You should consider registering...there are some great perks to being a member...such as the Off Topic section where there are lots of hot topics happening..

Seriously, if you aren't a member already, please consider it.

I honestly didn't think it would be a hot topic until you mentioned cafemom and I started to read it. I am on the private daycare group on cafemom so I will have to read that too. It's just been a long time. This forum is much better. But now I can understand what you mean.

I can't sneak anything past you BC. I am a registered member but been posting as unregistered for a long time now.
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cara041083 10:56 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
I'm not that poster, but the same thing could happen if you went to use the restroom and washed your hands. The same thing could happen while you changed a really messy diaper. Or perhaps like the provider recently who was right there when a child picked up a toy they shouldn't have had access to and perhaps swallowed it. I understand your point, but I have been stuck going to the bathroom (TMI but sometimes after having your gallbladder removed you have some nasty BMs when you eat certain foods... not always the same foods!) while the kids were asleep and I was so thankful this happened during nap time and not while they were all awake!
I guess thinking as a parent myself, if my baby threw up all over my provider and she waited until naptime to take a quick shower, I really wouldn't mind. But I have faced far worse actions from a provider so I guess it's all relative.
Oh trust me I totaly get what your saying (im 8 months prego and sometimes can't hold it lol) It just got me when It was said to leave them in a high chair or being naked while having kids that aren't my own in the house. Thats all I was trying to say. I understand that bathroom breaks happen and stuff like that. But shower is a lil more in depth then just going to the bathroom`.
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melilley 11:05 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
.

What would a center provider do?

A preschool teacher?
I have had this happen when I worked at a center. I had to run home on my break and change my clothes, no time for a shower. I learned after that day to bring extra clothes to work!
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melilley 11:10 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Yep, I warned you



There is a providers group on Cafemom that discussed this topic as well but the group is a private one you have to request membership so I didn't link to it because you can't read it unless you are a member but that discussion was much more friendly and more understanding. The general consensus was that they would wait too.


I am a member on Cafemom, how did I not see the providers group? I'll have to check it out!
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littlemissmuffet 11:29 AM 11-27-2013
I respect both sides of this argument - but I lean more to it being fine. I wouldn't take a bubble bath or anything, but a quick shower with the door open, sure.
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nanglgrl 11:36 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I haven't ever been to the mom confessions group there before. I have only read a few comments and I see what you mean!! The discussion will be my entertainment during nap time! Lol!
Oh my goodness! I just started reading some posts from cafe mom during nap. Wow, some (a lot) of these people are cray cray! Very interesting to see the other side of things though. I wonder if parents that come here think we are all bonkers? "My child comes home with dirt on his knees isn't this so horrible?" "My daycare won't serve special meals what should I do?" "My baby is suddenly happy and content at home should I be concerned she's being ignored at daycare?"
Oy, we see the other side of these stories all of the time on here but never thought that the parents would be so adamant that they are in the right and that their daycare is horrible....and so many people agree with these ridiculous things. I'm not going back there, I could feel my brain cells slowly dying reading some of that stuff.
Sorry for the hijack OP, my mind is blown.
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Unregistered 11:56 AM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
Oh my goodness! I just started reading some posts from cafe mom during nap. Wow, some (a lot) of these people are cray cray! Very interesting to see the other side of things though. I wonder if parents that come here think we are all bonkers? "My child comes home with dirt on his knees isn't this so horrible?" "My daycare won't serve special meals what should I do?" "My baby is suddenly happy and content at home should I be concerned she's being ignored at daycare?"
Oy, we see the other side of these stories all of the time on here but never thought that the parents would be so adamant that they are in the right and that their daycare is horrible....and so many people agree with these ridiculous things. I'm not going back there, I could feel my brain cells slowly dieing reading some of that stuff.
Sorry for the hijack OP, my mind is blown.
I know I was very surprised! I know that everyone parents differently and has different views. But some of those are just over the top!

I don't mind! Not hijacking

Also how did the title of the post change?
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nanglgrl 12:00 PM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I know I was very surprised! I know that everyone parents differently and has different views. But some of those are just over the top!

I don't mind! Not hijacking

Also how did the title of the post change?
One of the mods must have changed the title?

I went back, I keep going back..I need to escape that forum!
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Brooksie 12:02 PM 11-27-2013
I would, personally, NOT shower. My bathroom is through my bedroom and on the second floor. Last I talked to my licensing rep we are not allowed to use baby monitors as a form of sight or sound. If I were in your shoes, I would change my clothes, use a wash cloth with soap on it, and wipe yourself down really well. If it got in your hair, stick your hair under the sink. A shower is too risky. What if something happened and you were in the shower? Even if you did hear something what are you going to do? Jump out of the shower and run down the hall, soapy and butt naked? And heaven forbid your licensing rep be at the door If you're really worried about germs... throw some hand sanitizer on that washcloth as well.
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Shell 12:12 PM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I respect both sides of this argument - but I lean more to it being fine. I wouldn't take a bubble bath or anything, but a quick shower with the door open, sure.

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Blackcat31 12:14 PM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:

I went back, I keep going back..I need to escape that forum!
Sometimes when I am really bored, I will click into that group but honestly....it's just waaay over the top for me and I feel brain cells revolting when I stay too long but sometimes, I just can't help myself.
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misslori50 01:18 PM 11-27-2013
I am so thankful my husband and son are here with me so Id ont have to worry about this
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crazydaycarelady 01:38 PM 11-27-2013
I have been doing this a long time and I have showered occasionally. Once I got gas all over me. No way no how was I not going to shower, it was really hot out and I felt like I was going to burst into flames. But I only ever did it when all the kids were fast asleep, no one was due to wake, and I just washed body not hair.

We have the see and/or hear rule here.
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crazydaycarelady 01:39 PM 11-27-2013
Oh, I have also done it early in the morning when I had 5:30am drop off and the dckid went back to sleep.
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dingledine 02:23 PM 11-27-2013
Sadly, no. This would be even bigger no for me. My shower is upstairs in an unlicensed area.
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Angelsj 02:40 PM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
But someone else is supervising the kids so....
This is where it breaks for me too. I used to shower regularly after kids arrived, but I had an adult helper. Now, I could wake my husband if it were that bad, but I prefer he get to sleep most days, so I shower at night after they are all gone.
I don't think I would be comfortable even though I still have teenage kids here...just too much liability.
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countrymom 02:49 PM 11-27-2013
I would, just like I showered when my own kids were little. And are you ladies going to tell me that you don't go pee all day, because your looking at almost 5 min. in the bathroom. And all my kids are in pnp and are all sleeping.
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cheerfuldom 05:42 PM 11-27-2013
I have before, very rarely. I am legally unlicensed and that's how I like it. I took a shower after a kid vomited all over me and all over my hair and took a shower while all kids were safely deposited in pack and plays (I generally have four or less kids under 3 years old). I realize that there is a tiny risk but I can shower fast, probably faster than the average person takes in the bathroom anyways LOL Really, I would not expect my sitter to be stinky and covered in filth when all the kids were safe! This isnt a common thing but yes I have done it very very rarely. One time a kids diaper literally exploded all over me and I put him in the bath and literally hosed him down, put him to nap and then jumped in the shower.
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jessrlee 05:54 PM 11-27-2013
I did have a daycare mom watch the kiddos once while I showered. I had a girl vomit her entire lunch down my shirt and bra
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LaLa1923 05:54 PM 11-27-2013
Yes, I think it is fine to shower. I have done it several times during nap. I would take the infant with me in his seat if he's here. Otherwise, everyone is asleep and I think it's fine. My bathroom is on the same floor as my daycare areas.

I do have sight OR sound rule here too.

I also have a camera system all over my house, I set my tablet or computer up in the bathroom . I can still see and hear.
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countrymom 07:27 PM 11-27-2013
Originally Posted by jessrlee:
I did have a daycare mom watch the kiddos once while I showered. I had a girl vomit her entire lunch down my shirt and bra
omg my dd once did that, inside my bra. there is no grosser feeling than having puke in your bra, I'm sorry but that will always warrent a shower.
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dave4him 07:29 PM 11-27-2013
Id be worried they would wake up and go out the front door
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choirlady76 01:48 AM 11-28-2013
I do not feel it's appropriate, I teach preschool and we aren't ever permitted to leave our kids unless another teacher is in the room, most especially the infant room. In a split second something could happen and how would you explain it. My best advice would be to change clothes and wait until kids go home. I know vomit is aweful, but I'd rather that than for something to happen to a child while under my care.
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Josiegirl 03:24 AM 11-28-2013
These kids are entirely my responsibility while they're here. There is no other way around using the bathroom at times but I believe a shower would be more of an option. Even if vomit soaked thru your clothes, you change them, wash yourself down with a washcloth and wait till closing time to shower. Everybody would just have to suffer through with that lingering odor and I'm sure I'd be called smelly more than once.

I saw one poster mention spilling gas on herself. I'm just curious, really not meaning to accuse or anything, but how does that happen during daycare hours? Course, this is coming from a person who dislikes using any gas appliances or grills. So please forgive my ignorance.
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Play Care 04:54 AM 11-28-2013
I think the argument that "you shower when your own kids are sleeping so why not dck's" is invalid. There are a lot of things I do with my own kids that I would not do with the dck's. Last night I had a glass of wine with dinner, in front of my kids...

I decided when I started providing child care to treat this as I would any career and behave in a professional manner. For me that means being showered, dressed and ready for each day, it means not spending my day house cleaning and cooking, it means not having friends over to visit, it means having a plan for each day with the children, etc. Now that doesn't mean I don't do things during my work day to make my life easier - but I plan those things around my work schedule (every job has it's perks, after all)

And I've posted about my wild group recently - I wouldn't want to chance it because I could totally see one of them coming in to the bathroom just to see what was going on
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Blackcat31 09:41 AM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I think the argument that "you shower when your own kids are sleeping so why not dck's" is invalid. There are a lot of things I do with my own kids that I would not do with the dck's. Last night I had a glass of wine with dinner, in front of my kids...

I decided when I started providing child care to treat this as I would any career and behave in a professional manner. For me that means being showered, dressed and ready for each day, it means not spending my day house cleaning and cooking, it means not having friends over to visit, it means having a plan for each day with the children, etc. Now that doesn't mean I don't do things during my work day to make my life easier - but I plan those things around my work schedule (every job has it's perks, after all)


For me it's about professionalism and liability
These children are someone else's children.

What I do with my own is my business. What you do when other people's children are present is 100% a totally different scenario and not only up to the parents but your licensing rules/regulations too.

I'd really like to see written proof that showering while working is appropriate and allowed by licensing for those of you who said you would do it.

Also the peeing thing... Who seriously takes more than 60 seconds to pee during the day?!?

This is a little TMI but I've been taking note of the timing of my toileting needs since this thread was posted and yesterday I peed twice during the work day. First time was around 11:00. AFTER a pot of coffee. I went again before my last pick up. Neither time was more than a minute. This includes washing my hands.
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LaLa1923 09:56 AM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

For me it's about professionalism and liability
These children are someone else's children.

What I do with my own is my business. What you do when other people's children are present is 100% a totally different scenario and not only up to the parents but your licensing rules/regulations too.

I'd really like to see written proof that showering while working is appropriate and allowed by licensing for those of you who said you would do it.

Also the peeing thing... Who seriously takes more than 60 seconds to pee during the day?!?

This is a little TMI but I've been taking note of the timing of my toileting needs since this thread was posted and yesterday I peed twice during the work day. First time was around 11:00. AFTER a pot of coffee. I went again before my last pick up. Neither time was more than a minute. This includes washing my hands.
What about providers who are open 24/7 like myself?? When are they supposed to shower??
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Blackcat31 09:59 AM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
What about providers who are open 24/7 like myself?? When are they supposed to shower??
Do you have a significant other? You literally have kids 24/7 ALL the time?


What does licensing say about it? That's where the answer lies for EVERYONE licensed.

For those not licensed, I feel it's your responsibility to figure out how to manage personal needs without putting anyone's child at risk unnecessarily.

It's that simple.
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choirlady76 12:41 PM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
What about providers who are open 24/7 like myself?? When are they supposed to shower??
Don't you have other workers at your center? You could shower when they are watching the children.
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Angelsj 01:20 PM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

For me it's about professionalism and liability
These children are someone else's children.

What I do with my own is my business. What you do when other people's children are present is 100% a totally different scenario and not only up to the parents but your licensing rules/regulations too.

I'd really like to see written proof that showering while working is appropriate and allowed by licensing for those of you who said you would do it.
I already stated above that I would not unless the children were being supervised by another adult covered by licensing. However, even our own regulations allow sight OR sound, as you stated earlier.
I don't know that asking for specific "showering" proof is legitimate, as I feel it probably doesn't exist. Just because some people feel differently about it doesn't make it illegal, even per our own regulations. We may feel it is a bad idea, but that is opinion and our own preference. It doesn't make anyone who feels differently automatically wrong.
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Blackcat31 02:39 PM 11-28-2013
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
I already stated above that I would not unless the children were being supervised by another adult covered by licensing. However, even our own regulations allow sight OR sound, as you stated earlier.
I don't know that asking for specific "showering" proof is legitimate, as I feel it probably doesn't exist. Just because some people feel differently about it doesn't make it illegal, even per our own regulations. We may feel it is a bad idea, but that is opinion and our own preference. It doesn't make anyone who feels differently automatically wrong.
I hear what you're saying and agree to a point but just because it isnt written in the regs specifically doesnt mean it's ok.

When this thread was posted, i was curious as to what my licensor would say and she replied that sight and/or sound also implies being available and being in the shower would make me temporarily unavailable.

I asked if I would be cited for it and she said if it were up to her, yes.

Which is why I suggested that anyone unsure about their rules/regs to ask.

Just like the food program interpretation of the rules are up to each area and/ or licensor.

Either way, I personally feel it is highly unprofessional so it wouldn't really matter what my rules/regs say... I would just never do it and as a parent would not be okay with my provider doing it.
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MrsSteinel'sHouse 04:19 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I hear what you're saying and agree to a point but just because it isnt written in the regs specifically doesnt mean it's ok.

When this thread was posted, i was curious as to what my licensor would say and she replied that sight and/or sound also implies being available and being in the shower would make me temporarily unavailable.

I asked if I would be cited for it and she said if it were up to her, yes.

Which is why I suggested that anyone unsure about their rules/regs to ask.

Just like the food program interpretation of the rules are up to each area and/ or licensor.

Either way, I personally feel it is highly unprofessional so it wouldn't really matter what my rules/regs say... I would just never do it and as a parent would not be okay with my provider doing it.
I was just going to say that "sight or sound" implies that you are readily available to assist the children.

I have my 17 yr old son here (homeschooled) and he is the BEST with the little ones. If I need someone physically in the room he is there. But I would NEVER leave him alone with the kids.. esp to shower. All my parents love and trust him. I know he is a good kid but that doesn't matter. This is my business. He can not be alone with them.

I would not ask the mom to stay with them because per licensing she is not qualified to watch them either. Even my teacher parents that are fingerprinted still would not be okay to stay with them.
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Maria2013 05:55 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by jenboo:
It takes me longer than that to poop and i dont wait for naptime to do that.
good point
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nannyde 08:29 AM 11-29-2013
If I had a kid puke in my hair and I couldn't get it out by washing my hair and shoulders or neck by washing it in the sink I would confine the kids and take a shower. It would be a deal of confining, then setting up the bathroom, check kids, get new clothes in bathroom, check kids, then go in shower, put robe on, check kids, then get dressed. I would clean the bathroom up at nap time.

It would take me about one minute in the shower to wash my hair.

I have to look at the notion that I can't have puke near my mouth and nose for hours till I get off of work. I can't breathe that all day long. It puts me at risk.

A minute in the shower is a minute. I have my kids trained to stay in bed when I tell them to. They could easily do a minute.

We are flesh and blood not robots. There are some risks we have to take. One minute in the shower is a much lower risk than the risk of me getting sick inhaling puke fumes all day and having puke on me.

Other than removing something toxic off of me, I would never shower while the kids were here unless I did 24 hours care by myself.
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littlemissmuffet 09:06 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If I had a kid puke in my hair and I couldn't get it out by washing my hair and shoulders or neck by washing it in the sink I would confine the kids and take a shower. It would be a deal of confining, then setting up the bathroom, check kids, get new clothes in bathroom, check kids, then go in shower, put robe on, check kids, then get dressed. I would clean the bathroom up at nap time.

It would take me about one minute in the shower to wash my hair.

I have to look at the notion that I can't have puke near my mouth and nose for hours till I get off of work. I can't breathe that all day long. It puts me at risk.

A minute in the shower is a minute. I have my kids trained to stay in bed when I tell them to. They could easily do a minute.

We are flesh and blood not robots. There are some risks we have to take. One minute in the shower is a much lower risk than the risk of me getting sick inhaling puke fumes all day and having puke on me.

Other than removing something toxic off of me, I would never shower while the kids were here unless I did 24 hours care by myself.
I am glad you chimed in here, Nanny - I know a lot of the providers here look up to you, and then a lot of providers look up to BlackCat... so I think it's interesting that we have two very different answers from vet providers.

I also agree that showering to get some puke off would take 1-2 minutes. The time-consuming part of washing my hair is the drying of it, which I can do (and have done) in the playroom while I can still supervise 100%. Having the children safely contained, checking on the children between prepping for a shower, showering and getting redressed is also crucial in my thinking that having a quick shower is ok.
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Blackcat31 09:21 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I am glad you chimed in here, Nanny - I know a lot of the providers here look up to you, and then a lot of providers look up to BlackCat... so I think it's interesting that we have two very different answers from vet providers.
As much as I Nan, we don't see eye to eye on everything.

Which is what makes being friends with her awesome! I learn and share every time I chat with her.

The differences in this situation though are:

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Blackcat31 09:23 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If I had a kid puke in my hair and I couldn't get it out by washing my hair and shoulders or neck by washing it in the sink .
This is the route I would take IF I had to do more than wet wipes.
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Laurel 09:26 AM 11-29-2013
Technically it is not okay but I've done it before. The children were sleeping in P&P's.

Laurel
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littlemissmuffet 09:55 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
As much as I Nan, we don't see eye to eye on everything.

Which is what makes being friends with her awesome! I learn and share every time I chat with her.

The differences in this situation though are:
  • I have confirmation from my licensor that I would be cited for showering with kids present,
  • I do NOT trust my kids as much as Nan trusts hers,
  • I don't view vomit as a toxin and am ok with just a wet wipe bath to make it through the day
  • I don't have assistants
  • I also know my DCK families wouldn't be ok with it
  • I have had one sick day in 20 years so I trust my immune system to not get sick from a little baby puke.
  • and cannot shower in a minute... I would need 5-10.
Yes, see that's why I really like this forum... we all technically have the same "job" - but we all run our daycares very differently, have different policies, different ideas, different families and beyond that different legal regulations to follow depending on location. So a simple question like "Is it ok to shower during daycare hours?" is going to get a lot of opposing and various answers depending on all the different factors we are dealing with.
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TwinKristi 11:02 AM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Yes, see that's why I really like this forum... we all technically have the same "job" - but we all run our daycares very differently, have different policies, different ideas, different families and beyond that different legal regulations to follow depending on location. So a simple question like "Is it ok to shower during daycare hours?" is going to get a lot of opposing and various answers depending on all the different factors we are dealing with.
And this is what I like and dislike about the forum at the same time. I think sometimes some people come across as "THIS is the rule" when really it's "their" rules not general rules. I think we all have to make choices for ourselves but obviously with the reg's in mind. I honestly don't think the chances of an analyst coming to my house on the one day I have an emergency and baby puke all over and the DCKs all do something they normally don't do (not nap or get up, etc) are very high but it's the risk some people are not willing to make and that's FINE because it's our business and we run it the way we run it within guidelines set by licensing. A one time occurrence isn't the same as regular practice which is what the guidelines are for. They can't tell you what to do when x,y,z happens because there's 50 million scenarios out there. If you run a good childcare 99.9% of the time and 0.01% you take a 1-2 minute shower when everyone's asleep and secured than I think you're doing well! I don't think licensing could possibly come up with the fluke occurrences that could happen. We have emergency first aid life or death/injury type training and we know what to do as parents but each individual needs to decide for themselves at that moment. I, as a parent or provider, would be okay with this in the setting the OP stated. The cafemom link I would NOT be okay with. Just a shower because you feel like it and because you're covered in vomit is different to me and even if my licensing contact said no, I would know it's for a general scenario because that's all they can go by. They can't tell Sue at Happy Hearts it's ok to shower even though she's in an unrestricted part of the home within ear shot of the room all 3 of her infants are sleeping in confined safely in PNPs with the gate up to unrestricted areas, doors locked and bathroom open for hearing but tell Ann at Sunshine Kids she can't because her only shower is in an unrestricted part of the home, upstairs and unable to supervise the 7 kids on cots in the living room accessible to the kitchen. Do you see my point? They have to make "general" rulings but there are situations where it's perfectly safe to do so.
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nannyde 12:41 PM 11-29-2013
One more note. I did 24/7 care for years and did 24/5 care for about 16 years. I took a shower every other morning with kids in my house for many years.

I took an afternoon nap for YEARS too. I slept with kids in my house because there wasn't time when there wasn't kids in the house. The day kids were the same to me as the evening kids. I made more money on the evening shift. I had to sleep when the house was quiet and when I didn't have arrival or departures.

I did what I had to do to make money.
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kitykids3 01:35 PM 11-29-2013
Consciously I wouldn't be able to. There have been a couple times I have been tempted, but then I think, if something happened, i would not be able to respond quick enough because I am wet, naked in the shower. Even if I leave the door open and take a monitor in, it is not the same thing as taking the monitor to the kitchen and just washing dishes. If nothing else, you would need that extra 30 seconds or so to throw on clothes for an emergency.
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nannyde 02:15 PM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by kitykids3:
Consciously I wouldn't be able to. There have been a couple times I have been tempted, but then I think, if something happened, i would not be able to respond quick enough because I am wet, naked in the shower. Even if I leave the door open and take a monitor in, it is not the same thing as taking the monitor to the kitchen and just washing dishes. If nothing else, you would need that extra 30 seconds or so to throw on clothes for an emergency.
I would have a robe right next to the shower in case I had to run out of it.

I know I couldn't manage having puke in my hair and on my skin. I just couldn't do it. Breathing that in and having the fluids on my skin would put me at risk. It's a greater good argument. It would be for the greater good that I minimize my exposure. A one minute hot shower would be better for the group. I would have kids at my hair level many times a day. They would be breathing that in too.
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littlemissmuffet 07:18 PM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by kitykids3:
Consciously I wouldn't be able to. There have been a couple times I have been tempted, but then I think, if something happened, i would not be able to respond quick enough because I am wet, naked in the shower. Even if I leave the door open and take a monitor in, it is not the same thing as taking the monitor to the kitchen and just washing dishes. If nothing else, you would need that extra 30 seconds or so to throw on clothes for an emergency.
In a true emergency I would run to a child wet and naked - there are towels and robes hanging on our bathroom door but I KNOW I would likely be so panicked that I'd not stop to put one on.
It is what it is.
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Cradle2crayons 07:44 PM 11-29-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would have a robe right next to the shower in case I had to run out of it.

I know I couldn't manage having puke in my hair and on my skin. I just couldn't do it. Breathing that in and having the fluids on my skin would put me at risk. It's a greater good argument. It would be for the greater good that I minimize my exposure. A one minute hot shower would be better for the group. I would have kids at my hair level many times a day. They would be breathing that in too.


I'm pretty sure I can get out of the shower into a robe just as quick as I could get off the toilet and my pants pulled up.
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wabbittrouble 06:51 AM 12-02-2013
Be very careful - I know a provider in my area who asked this question once and got a visit from CPS because another provider IN ANOTHER STATE called and reported her. It's a shame that you have to be so careful even asking a question.
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My3cents 11:22 AM 12-02-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I respect both sides of this argument - but I lean more to it being fine. I wouldn't take a bubble bath or anything, but a quick shower with the door open, sure.
I feel the same...... speedy quick. Part of clean up and a convenience to me to be able to do that working from home. My kids would all be set up so that I could do that. I hate puke, and smelling that all day on me would most likely make me throw up. Anti bac soap and in and out.
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My3cents 11:35 AM 12-02-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:

For me it's about professionalism and liability
These children are someone else's children.

What I do with my own is my business. What you do when other people's children are present is 100% a totally different scenario and not only up to the parents but your licensing rules/regulations too.

I'd really like to see written proof that showering while working is appropriate and allowed by licensing for those of you who said you would do it.

Also the peeing thing... Who seriously takes more than 60 seconds to pee during the day?!?

This is a little TMI but I've been taking note of the timing of my toileting needs since this thread was posted and yesterday I peed twice during the work day. First time was around 11:00. AFTER a pot of coffee. I went again before my last pick up. Neither time was more than a minute. This includes washing my hands.
I take my job seriously and treat it as professional, but with that I would not want to expose the other kids to throw up on me, and I have that convenience that my shower is on the same floor and ear shot with the door closed, so I would make it speedy and clean up so that I don't get sick or the other kids don't get sick if not already exposed. This would not be a regular occurrence or long ordeal. It would be quick in and out, get the job done, wouldn't even take me five minutes. If it is a containable clean up then I wouldn't, but if I was covered and had the option then yes.
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My3cents 11:40 AM 12-02-2013
Originally Posted by nannyde:
If I had a kid puke in my hair and I couldn't get it out by washing my hair and shoulders or neck by washing it in the sink I would confine the kids and take a shower. It would be a deal of confining, then setting up the bathroom, check kids, get new clothes in bathroom, check kids, then go in shower, put robe on, check kids, then get dressed. I would clean the bathroom up at nap time.

It would take me about one minute in the shower to wash my hair.

I have to look at the notion that I can't have puke near my mouth and nose for hours till I get off of work. I can't breathe that all day long. It puts me at risk.

A minute in the shower is a minute. I have my kids trained to stay in bed when I tell them to. They could easily do a minute.

We are flesh and blood not robots. There are some risks we have to take. One minute in the shower is a much lower risk than the risk of me getting sick inhaling puke fumes all day and having puke on me.

Other than removing something toxic off of me, I would never shower while the kids were here unless I did 24 hours care by myself.

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My3cents 11:42 AM 12-02-2013
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
Yes, see that's why I really like this forum... we all technically have the same "job" - but we all run our daycares very differently, have different policies, different ideas, different families and beyond that different legal regulations to follow depending on location. So a simple question like "Is it ok to shower during daycare hours?" is going to get a lot of opposing and various answers depending on all the different factors we are dealing with.

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saved4always 05:20 PM 12-03-2013
It is flu season.... If there is any chance that this was actual vomit, not spitting up, I would definitely take a really quick shower to disinfect myself from any vomiting germs. It would be really quick though...soap up, rinse, out....no longer that using the bathroom for other personal needs that cannot wait.
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BrooklynM 06:48 PM 12-03-2013
Well I would personally do a wash cloth with soap type I bath. I did have an unfortunate incident with poop a while back. One of the babies woke up from his nap and I could definitely smell that he had pooped, so I lifted him out, and I was talking all cute to him- did you have a good nap? It smells like you went poo poo in your diaper, blah blah. He does his cute thing where he pats me gently on the back and puts his head on my shoulder. Then when I'm laying him down on the changing table, he's got this cute smile and he grabs my cheeks and I get this strong smell of poop- yup- he had his hands in it. It was everywhere! In my hair, on my face, all over my clothes. So I cleaned him up, changed my clothes, then I washed my hair and face in the kitchen sink (you can see the daycare room from the kitchen) I kept telling myself- do not breath through your mouth, only through your nose! The others thankfully were all napping during this time. So gross! Now I make sure he wears a onesie during naptime so he won't put his hands down his pants.
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Tags:baby vomit, showering, supervising kids
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