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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>QRIS/Star Ratings Systems...Feedback
Blackcat31 06:31 AM 05-28-2014
I am currently participating in my state's QRIS or star rating system.

Since these programs are fairly new (within the last 5 years) and have not reached all states yet, the process is an on-going learning experience for both the state as well as the provider and families in care.

I am currently collecting feedback data from providers (both in home and center based) about their experiences with their state's QRIS program.

Basically I am wondering if any of you who do participate (whether just starting to or having completed the process) would be willing to share with me their feedback/comments/experiences.
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome!

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.
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Annalee 06:43 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am currently participating in my state's QRIS or star rating system.

Since these programs are fairly new (within the last 5 years) and have not reached all states yet, the process is an on-going learning experience for both the state as well as the provider and families in care.

I am currently collecting feedback data from providers (both in home and center based) about their experiences with their state's QRIS program.

Basically I am wondering if any of you who do participate (whether just starting to or having completed the process) would be willing to share with me their feedback/comments/experiences.
  • What do you like/dislike about the program? I dislike the system, I think it needs revamped in my state or done away with
  • Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? No, instead of promoting quality, providers went underground placing children in unregulated homes.
  • Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? I have only had one child ask about the stars program since implementation in 2002.
  • Do you feel the program is provider friendly? No, too many areas for open perception and inconsistencies from child care organizations/agencies
  • Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment?FCCERS-R for home/ ECERS, ITERS, SACERS for centers[/b]
  • Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? Regardless of education, a score of at least "4" must be had on assessment or entire report card with 6 components is a '0'.......something majorly wrong with that....too much clout is placed on assessment
  • Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? play based curriculum
  • Does your state require assessments? state mandated How often and what types?annually with FCCERS-R for home child care
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome! I think I have been clear on my views of QRIS in previous post. I have stated my views to legislators and powers that be to no avail.. I feel the process has pushed daycares out of business....started with over 3000 homes and today there are 879. Powers that be consider QRIS reflecting quality, but how is pushing children into unregulated care quality. Case in point, I can be NAFCC Accredited, AS degree, CDA and still, my child care report card hangs in the balance EVERY YEAR of a state-mandated assessment that organizations can't even agree on the interpretation of.

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.
I hope my opinions help!
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Blackcat31 06:58 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I hope my opinions help!
Thank you Annalee for you comments.

Would you by any chance be willing to e-mail/PM me an expanded version of your comments.

I'm collecting info because I will be speaking with people from my state's program about how we can implement changes or continue with things as is...depending.

Like most things in the line of work, it looks great on paper but in actual "doing" stage, it isn't so great...kwim?

That is what I am trying to collect.... info about gaps in the system and ways in which the program can change to better meet the needs of the parents AND the providers.
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Annalee 06:59 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Thank you Annalee for you comments.

Would you by any chance be willing to e-mail/PM me an expanded version of your comments.

I'm collecting info because I will be speaking with people from my state's program about how we can implement changes or continue with things as is...depending.

Like most things in the line of work, it looks great on paper but in actual "doing" stage, it isn't so great...kwim?

That is what I am trying to collect.... info about gaps in the system and ways in which the program can change to better meet the needs of the parents AND the providers.
I sure will.....will work on that at naptime today!
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Blackcat31 07:00 AM 05-28-2014
Thank you!!
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MarinaVanessa 07:02 AM 05-28-2014
I just got into our pilot program but haven't actually started yet. We should be starting in the summer.

just by looking at our sheet of requirements I noticed that we need to take additional training in things like ERS, CLASS, CA Learning Foundations and Frameworks, ASQ, DAP, and an assessment that I can't quite remember the name of right now. I'm already in the stipend program to get money for going to college to get my CA teaching permits (in CA most centers require a teaching permit especially quality ones and all preschool teachers are required to have one or have a teaching credential), so anyway ... a bunch of this training is also required in the stipend program so I won't have to retake the trainings. That will make my life that much easier.
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Country Kids 07:43 AM 05-28-2014
I will get back to you at lunchtime-

Been working on it for a year! Man what a year-

Still not done-
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Annalee 09:12 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Thank you!!
I pm'd you. I hope it helps. Good luck!
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Blackcat31 09:17 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
I pm'd you. I hope it helps. Good luck!
Yes! Thank you! It was EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Thank you again!
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snbauser 10:14 AM 05-28-2014
When do you need the feedback by? I would be happy to provide some since my state has been using it for at least the 7 years I have been here but I won't get to it until probably this weekend.
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Blackcat31 10:19 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by snbauser:
When do you need the feedback by? I would be happy to provide some since my state has been using it for at least the 7 years I have been here but I won't get to it until probably this weekend.
Oh no hurry. ANY time in the next month is fine.

Thank you for being willing to give feedback.
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Heidi 10:50 AM 05-28-2014
What do you like/dislike about the program?
I feel our program relies too heavily on provider education, and puts very little stock in experience. I think education SHOULD be a factor, but also feel that if someone can meet all the standards without a degree, they should be a 5 star program, not be stuck at a 3. We've had people who taught the daycare classes who can't be a 4 or 5 star unless they go back to school. At 60 years of age; with 30 years experience. That's unreasonable, IMO. I also feel the way they use the FCCER's is not appropriate, because they are using it critically; looking for short comings, not assets. Basically, they are going in with a measuring tape and stop watch and trying to measure quality. There should be a much larger emphasis on provider interactions and activities, not ideals like hand washing to the point where children's hands are quite literally raw.

Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?
Somewhat. I think it's brought about a lot of awareness among providers about what children need. I think there has been a lot of training offered, and encouraged, which is also great. It is raising the bar, no question.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs?yes, in some areas, mostly in the cities. In rural areas, parents don't even know about the program, and even the caseworkers don't seem to direct them to the website

Do you feel the program is provider friendly?As a family provider, I will say mostly, no. There is a heavy emphasis on the formality and structure that is more appropriate in a center. The largest family childcare license here is 8 children, and each child under 2 takes 2 of those spots. For the most part, we are in our own homes, not institutions. That should not be considered a negative.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? It appears to be geared towards centers, then "trickled down" to FCC

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree?NO

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use?NO, but to get points for curriculum, it must meet the Wisconsin Model Early Learning Standards.

Does your state require assessments? Yes, but there is not specific one, or even a specific time frame. However, in order to receive points for this criteria, the teaching cycle of assessment-goals-curriculum-assessment-goals-curriculum must be demonstrated

How often and what types?One option is Ages and Stages, and free training was provided

To add:
The process here is that you can either get an automated rating (a two-star), or go for a higher rating. For a 3, you work with a technical consultant and set goals for your program. For a 4 or 5, you must also have a separate person come and rate the program. This is where the big hitch is. Your technical consultant can get you ready, think you're program is just fantastic, and then a rater will come and literally look for problems. To my knowledge, none of the raters have FCC backgrounds, and very few have actually worked in childcare at all. THERE is the problem, right there, and that's got to be hard on the center folks, as well.

Also, if you are nationally accredited (or city accredited where available), you automatically "bump up" to a 4 or 5 star (depending on that degree), because they built that in to the system. It's annoying for those of us who aren't in Madison; because national accreditation is pricey and cumbersome, but at least it's an option.
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melilley 11:01 AM 05-28-2014
I pm'd you. Hopefully it helps.
I do want to change my last answer though.

If you're talking about assessments for children, then yes our state requires them 2 times a year. There is a list of assessments that we can choose from to use.
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llpa 11:04 AM 05-28-2014
I just attained a star one rating. Heading to a meeting tomorrow to discuss star two requirements. I will share some answers with you over the next week or so
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Blackcat31 11:06 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by melilley:
I pm'd you. Hopefully it helps.
I do want to change my last answer though.

If you're talking about assessments for children, then yes our state requires them 2 times a year. There is a list of assessments that we can choose from to use.
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.

Originally Posted by llpa:
I just attained a star one rating. Heading to a meeting tomorrow to discuss star two requirements. I will share some answers with you over the next week or so
Thank you!!
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Annalee 11:27 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
What do you like/dislike about the program?
I feel our program relies too heavily on provider education, and puts very little stock in experience. I think education SHOULD be a factor, but also feel that if someone can meet all the standards without a degree, they should be a 5 star program, not be stuck at a 3. We've had people who taught the daycare classes who can't be a 4 or 5 star unless they go back to school. At 60 years of age; with 30 years experience. That's unreasonable, IMO. I also feel the way they use the FCCER's is not appropriate, because they are using it critically; looking for short comings, not assets. Basically, they are going in with a measuring tape and stop watch and trying to measure quality. There should be a much larger emphasis on provider interactions and activities, not ideals like hand washing to the point where children's hands are quite literally raw.

Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?
Somewhat. I think it's brought about a lot of awareness among providers about what children need. I think there has been a lot of training offered, and encouraged, which is also great. It is raising the bar, no question.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs?yes, in some areas, mostly in the cities. In rural areas, parents don't even know about the program, and even the caseworkers don't seem to direct them to the website

Do you feel the program is provider friendly?As a family provider, I will say mostly, no. There is a heavy emphasis on the formality and structure that is more appropriate in a center. The largest family childcare license here is 8 children, and each child under 2 takes 2 of those spots. For the most part, we are in our own homes, not institutions. That should not be considered a negative.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? It appears to be geared towards centers, then "trickled down" to FCC

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree?NO

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use?NO, but to get points for curriculum, it must meet the Wisconsin Model Early Learning Standards.

Does your state require assessments? Yes, but there is not specific one, or even a specific time frame. However, in order to receive points for this criteria, the teaching cycle of assessment-goals-curriculum-assessment-goals-curriculum must be demonstrated

How often and what types?One option is Ages and Stages, and free training was provided

To add:
The process here is that you can either get an automated rating (a two-star), or go for a higher rating. For a 3, you work with a technical consultant and set goals for your program. For a 4 or 5, you must also have a separate person come and rate the program. This is where the big hitch is. Your technical consultant can get you ready, think you're program is just fantastic, and then a rater will come and literally look for problems. To my knowledge, none of the raters have FCC backgrounds, and very few have actually worked in childcare at all. THERE is the problem, right there, and that's got to be hard on the center folks, as well.

Also, if you are nationally accredited (or city accredited where available), you automatically "bump up" to a 4 or 5 star (depending on that degree), because they built that in to the system. It's annoying for those of us who aren't in Madison; because national accreditation is pricey and cumbersome, but at least it's an option.
Accreditation is not listed in our Professional Development component but we supposedly get an extra point for that but it shows up nowhere. An AS degree will get the 3 star in that area. All stars are combined/averaged for final star count. The highest is 3. But all components are for naught unless you score above that "4" on the state-mandated assessment. Components consist of Prof. Development, Developmental Learning Standards, Parent/family Involvement, Business Mgmt, and Program Assessment. I have 3's in all categories including assessment as I have since 2002 when it began, but if assessment become an opt-out component, I would take a 0 there and my average would be 2.4 but I would take the 2-star and NOT do assessment....That explains how disgruntled I am with the ASSESSMENT!!!!
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Annalee 11:40 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?
Somewhat. I think it's brought about a lot of awareness among providers about what children need. I think there has been a lot of training offered, and encouraged, which is also great. It is raising the bar, no question.
I think the extra trainings in the beginning with a new QRIS system brought about a higher morale and raised the bar in the beginning. However, providers began to feel betrayed, leading to frustration. Now with all the budget cuts, there are very few local trainings offered. Conferences still are available through private organizations, but the state cut funding for technical assistance diminishing workshops to one training per county per month. This would not even supply the hours needed for 1 star in Prof development. The entire process after 2002, in my honest opinion, has nothing positive left. QRIS was done in the name of quality and you can't measure a hug....a smile.......a laugh........ You sure can't measure it by counting our materials......The best things in life are free. Play is FREE! Let the children explore, discover, imagine, dream in our learning environments. Providers know their own kids and prepare environments accordingly...without the help of a FCCERS-R book!!!!
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drseuss 11:45 AM 05-28-2014
I feel much the same as Heidi, and we are in the same state. I began the star rating program and withdrew when I realized what a bunch of bunk it is. Everything seems so centered around how things look on PAPER. Not enough on reality. The diapering and handwashing procedures alone are enough to literally take up our entire day. Heidi's comment regarding children's raw hands? Yep. Right on. That's just one little thing. The technical consultant told me that when she comes, I should expect the nosy mother in law treatment in every room of my home, even the ones not being used for my license. That would include looking through all the drawers in my bedroom, master bath and closet. Etc.

I do not like it, Sam I Am.

Participation in the program is currently not a requirement in our state, but I am assuming that it will eventually be required, sooner rather than later. At that point, I will reassess and either find a job outside the home or just go unregulated. I was probably doing a better job when I was legally unlicensed because I had more time to concentrate on the things that matter the most and didn't have to worry myself sick that there might be a penny in my nightstand drawer in a room that my daycare children do not even have access to. They don't give anybody credit for having a single brain cell in their head anymore. It's CYA all the way up to the top.
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Heidi 11:51 AM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
I feel much the same as Heidi, and we are in the same state. I began the star rating program and withdrew when I realized what a bunch of bunk it is. Everything seems so centered around how things look on PAPER. Not enough on reality. The diapering and handwashing procedures alone are enough to literally take up our entire day. Heidi's comment regarding children's raw hands? Yep. Right on. That's just one little thing. The technical consultant told me that when she comes, I should expect the nosy mother in law treatment in every room of my home, even the ones not being used for my license. That would include looking through all the drawers in my bedroom, master bath and closet. Etc.

I do not like it, Sam I Am.

Participation in the program is currently not a requirement in our state, but I am assuming that it will eventually be required, sooner rather than later. At that point, I will reassess and either find a job outside the home or just go unregulated. I was probably doing a better job when I was legally unlicensed because I had more time to concentrate on the things that matter the most and didn't have to worry myself sick that there might be a penny in my nightstand drawer in a room that my daycare children do not even have access to. They don't give anybody credit for having a single brain cell in their head anymore. It's CYA all the way up to the top.
I, too, will most likely eventually withdraw from the whole thing. Depends on where it heads. Currently, I have 4 children enrolled, and 2 of those are 4 days a week. I have no state-funded kiddos. So, I am literally doing it for the $500 MICRO (as in teeny) grant. I also like my technical consultant, she's very sweet.
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drseuss 12:03 PM 05-28-2014
Yes, the micro grant is the carrot they swing in front of you to get you into the program. I was not doing it for that, but I was doing it so that I would be eligible for the TEACH scholarship. There are so many strings attached to both the micro grant and the scholarship that I did not want to be bound to.

I could go on and on about this but I'd probably end up getting mouthy about it, and being new here, I'd rather not.
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Heidi 12:53 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by drseuss:
Yes, the micro grant is the carrot they swing in front of you to get you into the program. I was not doing it for that, but I was doing it so that I would be eligible for the TEACH scholarship. There are so many strings attached to both the micro grant and the scholarship that I did not want to be bound to.

I could go on and on about this but I'd probably end up getting mouthy about it, and being new here, I'd rather not.
Hahaha! I can hear your voice echoing in my own brain!
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Annalee 12:55 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Hahaha! I can hear your voice echoing in my own brain!
I think the letters QRIS brings out a voice/attitude in providers that legislators didn't count on.....Don't mess with us!
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Country Kids 12:56 PM 05-28-2014
What do you like/dislike about the program?
I like how it makes you look at your program differently. I did do alot of changes to my program but didn't change the way I did care. Either way I give 100% quality care to my families.

What do I dislike about the program-how they want you to be a headstart set up in your home. I initally joined to be the voice for those doing it out of their livingrooms. What the program requires and the changes I have done, I personally do not see it working with someone who does this in hteir livingroom.


Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?I'm not really sure on this. Everyone that I know personally doing it already were excellent providers. It needs to be geared towards those who are running babysitting businesses, watching tv all day and think its easy money.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs?Since it has only been in my area for a year, I'm not sure if parents are using it or not.


Do you feel the program is provider friendly? No-that is why it has taken me so long to do it. Over spring break I cracked the whip and worked all week on it. It took me over 20-25 hours to type out my portfolio. The reason for me getting it out was we had a money incentive and it was seriously the first time I had a very low ratio of children and could sit, concentrate and work on it. My dining room table was covered with papers and laptop though for a full week. I don't think they realize that we work long hours/weeks, have families and seriously I don't have alot of free time to be able to do this. My specialist finally had a workday for us and we all were able to get so much done during that time. I think that is what it took, a Sat. with no interuptions, someone there to answer questions, and just having someone rooting you on.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Both-there is a big push for it to be in all childcare areas. There is a FCC, Certified CC and Childcare Centers manuals. Each one has different expectations.

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? No-even the three star you have to have a ton of education. I qualified for the education part but the funny thing-non of it pertained to childcare. It was a bunch of mismatch courses I took 25 years ago but the way it was broken down they all fit in the appropriate "category" to be counted. If you have assistants they also have to have a certain amount of education.

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? Yes and for each age level. If you do not want to use them you have to "proof" the curriculum you use goes with the National Standards.

Does your state require assessments? How often and what types? Yes-within 30 days of a child starting your program. We have to use ASQ3 or TS Gold (something like that). We also have to survey our families once a year and average out our scores from them.

When I received my portfolio back I didn't obtain a certain star level for the following reasons: Did not have assesments done-was a new policy to my program and was starting in Sept. I have to do them before that time to get my Star level. Did not have a certain "education" level but have exceeded that but still have to resubmit everything. I exceeded it but the QRIS program did check with the program over that so that is why I counted down on that. I also apparently do not potty train they way they would like (it all in the wording) so I have to redo that part.

I find it funny the things they consider quality care that you don't think about: child size eating utensils is the one I can think right off the top. Also, I pretty much have to have a classroom outside. Anything inside should be ecsessiable outside as well.

If I think of anymore I will post later!
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nanglgrl 02:55 PM 05-28-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am currently participating in my state's QRIS or star rating system.

Since these programs are fairly new (within the last 5 years) and have not reached all states yet, the process is an on-going learning experience for both the state as well as the provider and families in care.

I am currently collecting feedback data from providers (both in home and center based) about their experiences with their state's QRIS program.

Basically I am wondering if any of you who do participate (whether just starting to or having completed the process) would be willing to share with me their feedback/comments/experiences.
I've been on QRS since it started in Iowa, at least 5 years but I'm pretty sur even longer, so I'd be happy to help.
  • What do you like/dislike about the program? I Like the grant we get every 2 years for participating and that by participating we are able to get the TEACH grant for school. I dislike that they only consider degree's/classes in child development or education for the higher stars and don't give any points for experience or other education I think any education beyond high school should be rewarded. I also dislike that a horrible daycare can get QRS stars as long as they meet minimum requirements.
  • Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? No, not here at least. Parents don't care and I've never had a single one ask what my QRS rating is. When I've mentioned my QRS rating to prospective clients they have no idea what I'm talking about. Most providers don't opt to do it and the ones that do are usually the types that would be improving the quality of their daycare regardless of a program or grant money.
  • Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? Not many if any at all. Most people around here are still looking for the cheapest and in this area the cheapest are the unlicensed homes. It's legal in our state to be unlicensed so there are a lot of bad, cheap daycares that are over in their numbers. I'm not saying all unlicensed is bad or that all licensed is good just that without any accountability for unlicensed providers and a ton of accountability for licensed the system is not working here.
  • Do you feel the program is provider friendly? I do. Our local CCRR office works closely with us so we can get on the program and the program is doable even if some of the requirements are silly.
  • Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Our state has a separate framework.
  • Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? I will have to look for sure but I want to say yes, because my state has it set up so that you just have to earn some points out of every category and the total points of all categories determines our star. In the education category we can earn points for a degree but also for single college courses or course series that are taught by our local CCRR.
  • Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? No, we are not required to teach curriculum.
  • Does your state require assessments? How often and what types? No, but there are points given if we choose to do them. However you could just decide to earn points from another option in that category.
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome! When hearing about other state's QRS programs I think our state is doing pretty well comparatively. My biggest grievances are really minor.

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.
I responded in bold.
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Blackcat31 02:59 PM 05-28-2014
THANK YOU LADIES!!!

I appreciate that you took the time to respond!

@Dr Suess....feel free to PM me your feedback. Mouthy replies are welcome too!
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Lucy 06:56 PM 05-28-2014
I've been clear elsewhere on the forum that I am strongly against this program. I have no interest in stars. I get my clients from ads in our local newspaper, and occasionally, from personal referrals. Not once in 20 years have I ever been sent a prospect from the county's referral service. So a rating would not benefit me. The parents I get know nothing about this program.

Even if I DID get several county referrals, I still have no interest in doing this. I provide "just like family", or "just like home" care. I have always gotten them at a very young age - some just weeks old - and kept them long term. (10-12 years) It seems, to my understanding of the system, that it is largely based on having a curriculum of some sort. Tell me how I would do that for my current group of 6-11 year olds?

To go even further, even if I DID do pre-school ages, I have zero interest in doing a formal curriculum, although I might reluctantly do a half-assed one next school year for 3 hours/day while the bigger kids are in school ... only because I need that income. But it's going to be by MY design, which I know for sure would NOT fit the stars system's criteria. I certainly don't want the government involved in it; telling me what curriculum is ok to use and sticking their noses in to make sure I'm doing it "right" (THEIR version of "right").

So... all that being said... it is currently voluntary in my state, and obviously I did not volunteer. But if, on the off chance, that perfect family checked with the county to be matched up with a provider in my small town, are they going to call the 3, 4, 5 star provider, or someone who isn't even rated?

Parents will think of it like Hotel stars. Wouldn't you rather stay at a 5-star hotel than a 1-star? Or worse yet, one that wasn't even good enough to warrant ANY stars?

You see, it discriminates against me. And it seems I've heard there are financial kickbacks for reaching certain plateaus? I could be wrong there, but something in the back of my mind is saying that I read that somewhere. If so, I'll never see any of that.

I don't want to run the type of program that the stars system wants. I want to have families enroll with me, have their kids come to my house and feel as safe and comfortable as they do in their own house, to make great friends here, to WANT to come here, to grow up here, to take them to the summer reading program, swim lessons, basketball camp at the local church, the free lunch program our town offers in summer, the awesome Lego store in town, the park, McDonald's playland on rainy days, etc., etc. I'm not the type to be tied down at home with a forced curriculum and schedule. My kids learn -- don't get me wrong!! I take every organically-occurring opportunity to teach. I've had some pretty smart kids go through here, and I recognize and nurture that. I just don't want to do it THEIR way (the state's). Call me a rebel I suppose. I just know that I have ZERO interest in the stars program.

I'm sure all that ^ isn't what you were after, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Also, where's the money coming from to implement and maintain this system? I feel there are MUCH better places to put that money than to have Big Brother peering into my home. I don't begrudge those of you who like it. In fact, if this is for you, then I encourage you and cheer for you to receive the top star rating. It's just not for me.
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Childminder 08:08 PM 05-28-2014
What do you like/dislike about the program? Haven't found anything I like about it unless it was the micro-coaching I received before when it was being developed and all of the individual attention and program incentives I received. / My big dislike is the amount of time I have spent doing "busy" work on the survey and submitting my paperwork. That and I can never be any more than a "C" or three star. I am not going back to school.

Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? Other than this and a couple other forums I have no idea. The hours I work and the seclusion of the field doesn't allow for much feedback.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? Parents are all about their cost. I have not yet talked to one parent that knows anything about QRIS or the website or star ratings.

Do you feel the program is provider friendly? NO, neither the process of becoming rated nor the benefit of being rated. Possibly for centers but I feel it's trying to eliminate us smaller family programs.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Centers, though we as in-home providers made such a stink about it that it was revamped about 6 months in to be more accessible to in-home.

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? NO. Experience means very little.

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? Mmmm... yes they have a list to pick from but it has an "other" selection that you can put your chosen one for approval.

Does your state require assessments? How often and what types? They will and it depends on the star level. It's one of the things that I have issues with. I feel that I'm not educated on assessing children. Maybe that's because I have been in this business so long and have always been told I don't have the degrees to assess a child. Until recently it wasn't something we were allowed to do. Even just recently I recommended that a 1yr old child be observed because I felt that his development level was about 6 months. A lot of babies have been held in these arms during the 49 years I have cared for children but it was dismissed as unfounded, without any professional observation, with one phone call to the parent who had never been around children other than him.

On a side note I just was licensed for in-home group(12) after many years as family(6) and lost all of my stars. I can resubmit in 6 months and with more "busy" work get them back but should I bother? I am still the same person with the same program.
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Heidi 08:03 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
What do you like/dislike about the program? Haven't found anything I like about it unless it was the micro-coaching I received before when it was being developed and all of the individual attention and program incentives I received. / My big dislike is the amount of time I have spent doing "busy" work on the survey and submitting my paperwork. That and I can never be any more than a "C" or three star. I am not going back to school.

Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? Other than this and a couple other forums I have no idea. The hours I work and the seclusion of the field doesn't allow for much feedback.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? Parents are all about their cost. I have not yet talked to one parent that knows anything about QRIS or the website or star ratings.

Do you feel the program is provider friendly? NO, neither the process of becoming rated nor the benefit of being rated. Possibly for centers but I feel it's trying to eliminate us smaller family programs.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Centers, though we as in-home providers made such a stink about it that it was revamped about 6 months in to be more accessible to in-home.

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? NO. Experience means very little.

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? Mmmm... yes they have a list to pick from but it has an "other" selection that you can put your chosen one for approval.

Does your state require assessments? How often and what types? They will and it depends on the star level. It's one of the things that I have issues with. I feel that I'm not educated on assessing children. Maybe that's because I have been in this business so long and have always been told I don't have the degrees to assess a child. Until recently it wasn't something we were allowed to do. Even just recently I recommended that a 1yr old child be observed because I felt that his development level was about 6 months. A lot of babies have been held in these arms during the 49 years I have cared for children but it was dismissed as unfounded, without any professional observation, with one phone call to the parent who had never been around children other than him.
This!

I got the assessment training, but it requires parental involvement (they do the test, you score it). My parents have NO interest in that.

Over the years, I have referred children to Birth-3, but it was through my observations and experience that I noticed red flags, NOT a 3 page formal assessment.
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Annalee 09:07 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
This!

I got the assessment training, but it requires parental involvement (they do the test, you score it). My parents have NO interest in that.

Over the years, I have referred children to Birth-3, but it was through my observations and experience that I noticed red flags, NOT a 3 page formal assessment.
Continuing education makes "me" feel better and I have learned so much BUT, in reality, a book doesn't teach how to love, cuddle, nurture, care, etc. Quality child care comes from the heart of the child care professional...NO book or professor can teach that. I do think providers would be more inclined to further education if they didn't feel forced to. My classes were a form of support for me. I learned from college classes, but also they offered re-enforcement that my child care practices in place were appropriate as well. As providers have been taught many times, each child learns differently...same as with child care providers, QRIS should let us choose our own career path!
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Blackcat31 09:16 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Continuing education makes "me" feel better and I have learned so much BUT, in reality, a book doesn't teach how to love, cuddle, nurture, care, etc. Quality child care comes from the heart of the child care professional...NO book or professor can teach that. I do think providers would be more inclined to further education if they didn't feel forced to. My classes were a form of support for me. I learned from college classes, but also they offered re-enforcement that my child care practices in place were appropriate as well. As providers have been taught many times, each child learns differently...same as with child care providers, QRIS should let us choose our own career path!
I think that is where the BIGGEST gap is.... they aren't looking for child care to be so focused on care but more on education.

NO WHERE in my rating process did it ask if I cuddled, nurtured, loved or cared for the children I enroll.

The sole focus was on the developmental progress in regards to academics and education.

Soon it will not be Child CARE at all but Child EDUCATION.

Notice the biggest advocate against this program are the providers who have years and years of experience but lack the "required education"?

I think THAT is going to be the divide.

If in home child care still exists in 10 years it will be on a level that is no where near and not at all in competition with the Early Childhood Educators who are teaching the kids academics. kwim?

We will have two VERY distinct groups of providers.

Those that operate like a preschool and focus soley on the academics and those who simply provide care.

If they do anything else, the government isn't going to care. I think they will be viewed as babysitters and the ability to actually make a living from it will be non-existent.

I believe they will be targeting the number of kids allowed next...limiting those that are not participating in the QRIS to so few kids it won't be financially worth doing anymore.

That's my 2 cents.
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Annalee 09:24 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think that is where the BIGGEST gap is.... they aren't looking for child care to be so focused on care but more on education.

NO WHERE in my rating process did it ask if I cuddled, nurtured, loved or cared for the children I enroll.

The sole focus was on the developmental progress in regards to academics and education.

Soon it will not be Child CARE at all but Child EDUCATION.

Notice the biggest advocate against this program are the providers who have years and years of experience but lack the "required education"?

I think THAT is going to be the divide.

If in home child care still exists in 10 years it will be on a level that is no where near and not at all in competition with the Early Childhood Educators who are teaching the kids academics. kwim?

We will have two VERY distinct groups of providers.

Those that operate like a preschool and focus soley on the academics and those who simply provide care.

If they do anything else, the government isn't going to care. I think they will be viewed as babysitters and the ability to actually make a living from it will be non-existent.

I believe they will be targeting the number of kids allowed next...limiting those that are not participating in the QRIS to so few kids it won't be financially worth doing anymore.

That's my 2 cents.
I think you are right on the money!!! When the state started paying for college classes for providers to receive CDA/AS/BS degrees about 10 years ago, I knew something was up. Well now there is some funding but very little so the providers who did not take advantage the first go around are scrambling. Not that I agree with QRIS, but the lacking providers see where child care is headed in the next 10 years. I really do LOVE my job and plan to hang with it, but I find QRIS unsettling to say it nicely!
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SignMeUp 10:04 AM 05-29-2014
A lot of parents will support this too, because if the school systems (which in my part of the state are NOT THAT GOOD) take over early childhood education (think full-day kindergarten for starters), there will not be a cost to parents. Most people will at least TRY the school system program to save the money they spend now on child care.
I totally agree that Family Child Care Homes are on their way out. And it will be a huge loss, in my opinion.
Years ago I was asked to write a blurb for a newsletter about FCC and its strengths. My piece was about how learning begins with a secure, caring and loving relationship - miss that piece, and you miss it all. It is the BASE for all future learning.

When my children are getting ready to go off to kindergarten, I let them know what things will be similar and what things may be different from being here. And that they should look for the things that they like, and go along with the things that they don't like, because the teacher has a reason for doing things his or her way. The teacher shows them that he/she cares by helping them learn. (It's the teaching way ... to show I love you. It's the teaching way ... to show I care about you -- paraphrased from the Mr. Rogers song) Because it is all based on learning from someone who cares about you

My apologies for detouring from the topic.
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Leanna 10:05 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I think that is where the BIGGEST gap is.... they aren't looking for child care to be so focused on care but more on education.

NO WHERE in my rating process did it ask if I cuddled, nurtured, loved or cared for the children I enroll.

The sole focus was on the developmental progress in regards to academics and education.

Soon it will not be Child CARE at all but Child EDUCATION.

Notice the biggest advocate against this program are the providers who have years and years of experience but lack the "required education"?

I think THAT is going to be the divide.



If in home child care still exists in 10 years it will be on a level that is no where near and not at all in competition with the Early Childhood Educators who are teaching the kids academics. kwim?

We will have two VERY distinct groups of providers.

Those that operate like a preschool and focus soley on the academics and those who simply provide care.

If they do anything else, the government isn't going to care. I think they will be viewed as babysitters and the ability to actually make a living from it will be non-existent.

I believe they will be targeting the number of kids allowed next...limiting those that are not participating in the QRIS to so few kids it won't be financially worth doing anymore.

That's my 2 cents.

Hmmm...interesting perspective &interesting post.

(Disclaimer: QRIS has not yet been implemented statewide here (NY) yet. They had a voluntary pilot program about 2 years ago and are now focusing on certain areas of the state (not my area) as they do not have the $$ yet to fully implement it statewide. I have reviewed the requirements inline and attended informational trainings but I did not take part in the pilot.)

I just have to point out that it is not simply a matter of either "operating like a preschool and focus solely on academics" OR "simply providing care." Programs that call themselves "preschool" (or Pre-K,etc.) that "focus solely on academics", do calendar and weather, worksheets, flashcards, crafts, lots of teacher directed activities,etc. are very misguided. Programs (called daycare or otherwise) where children sit in front of a TV all day are also misguided. Programs where children learn about themselves and the world through routines such as diapering and pottying, having meals, dressing and grooming, napping, cuddling with their provider/teacher/caregiver etc., and open-ended play activities such as building, running, jumping, creating, dancing, dressing-up, pretending, manipulating toys,etc. are quality child care programs. Such programs can be found under a plethora of titles: center based child care, preschool, pre-K, Head Start, nursery school, home based child care, school, etc. The point is that CHILDREN RECEIVE A PRESCHOOL EDUCATION THROUGH QUALITY CARE. We need to stop separating the two. You CANNOT be a high quality program without providing good CARE. Providing good care means the children are receiving a preschool education.
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Annalee 10:12 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Hmmm...interesting perspective &interesting post.

(Disclaimer: QRIS has not yet been implemented statewide here (NY) yet. They had a voluntary pilot program about 2 years ago and are now focusing on certain areas of the state (not my area) as they do not have the $$ yet to fully implement it statewide. I have reviewed the requirements inline and attended informational trainings but I did not take part in the pilot.)

I just have to point out that it is not simply a matter of either "operating like a preschool and focus solely on academics" OR "simply providing care." Programs that call themselves "preschool" (or Pre-K,etc.) that "focus solely on academics", do calendar and weather, worksheets, flashcards, crafts, lots of teacher directed activities,etc. are very misguided. Programs (called daycare or otherwise) where children sit in front of a TV all day are also misguided. Programs where children learn about themselves and the world through routines such as diapering and pottying, having meals, dressing and grooming, napping, cuddling with their provider/teacher/caregiver etc., and open-ended play activities such as building, running, jumping, creating, dancing, dressing-up, pretending, manipulating toys,etc. are quality child care programs. Such programs can be found under a plethora of titles: center based child care, preschool, pre-K, Head Start, nursery school, home based child care, school, etc. The point is that CHILDREN RECEIVE A PRESCHOOL EDUCATION THROUGH QUALITY CARE. We need to stop separating the two. You CANNOT be a high quality program without providing good CARE. Providing good care means the children are receiving a preschool education.
Quality child care programs should, in fact, have a combination of everything you posted, BUT, obviously, the powers that be DO NOT see it that way. The change began in a subtle way, but has gained speed and is moving rapidly toward what Blackcat posted! Not that I agree with it, but it is headed that direction!
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Heidi 10:13 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Annalee:
Continuing education makes "me" feel better and I have learned so much BUT, in reality, a book doesn't teach how to love, cuddle, nurture, care, etc. Quality child care comes from the heart of the child care professional...NO book or professor can teach that. I do think providers would be more inclined to further education if they didn't feel forced to. My classes were a form of support for me. I learned from college classes, but also they offered re-enforcement that my child care practices in place were appropriate as well. As providers have been taught many times, each child learns differently...same as with child care providers, QRIS should let us choose our own career path!
Yes!

I learned more from my umpteen hours of continuing ed at conferences than I did in my ECE courses (I just went back when I restarted my daycare).

I almost have my Associate's degree complete, and I honestly can't tell you one NEW thing I learned; and I got almost all A's (except the last semester because I got bored and took a B/C in one class to avoid the last details).

The most "learning" I ever got is conference learning. Taught by people who worked in the field, who said "this is what I do....try it". THAT was helpful!
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Blackcat31 10:32 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
Hmmm...interesting perspective &interesting post.

(Disclaimer: QRIS has not yet been implemented statewide here (NY) yet. They had a voluntary pilot program about 2 years ago and are now focusing on certain areas of the state (not my area) as they do not have the $$ yet to fully implement it statewide. I have reviewed the requirements inline and attended informational trainings but I did not take part in the pilot.)

I just have to point out that it is not simply a matter of either "operating like a preschool and focus solely on academics" OR "simply providing care." Programs that call themselves "preschool" (or Pre-K,etc.) that "focus solely on academics", do calendar and weather, worksheets, flashcards, crafts, lots of teacher directed activities,etc. are very misguided. Programs (called daycare or otherwise) where children sit in front of a TV all day are also misguided. Programs where children learn about themselves and the world through routines such as diapering and pottying, having meals, dressing and grooming, napping, cuddling with their provider/teacher/caregiver etc., and open-ended play activities such as building, running, jumping, creating, dancing, dressing-up, pretending, manipulating toys,etc. are quality child care programs. Such programs can be found under a plethora of titles: center based child care, preschool, pre-K, Head Start, nursery school, home based child care, school, etc. The point is that CHILDREN RECEIVE A PRESCHOOL EDUCATION THROUGH QUALITY CARE. We need to stop separating the two. You CANNOT be a high quality program without providing good CARE. Providing good care means the children are receiving a preschool education.
That was sort of the point of my post.

WE know the difference and the importance.

QRIS does not agree though.

THEY are the ones separating it.

There will be a lot of great child care providers that don't meet the unrealistic expectations of the QRIS that will be lost to the wayside simply because they don't meet the educational parts of the program. (By educational, I mean having a degree).

That is what I find sad.
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mom2many 10:51 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That was sort of the point of my post.

WE know the difference and the importance.

QRIS does not agree though.

THEY are the ones separating it.

There will be a lot of great child care providers that don't meet the unrealistic expectations of the QRIS that will be lost to the wayside simply because they don't meet the educational parts of the program. (By educational, I mean having a degree).

That is what I find sad.
Yep... Couldn't agree more!
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Childminder 11:14 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by :
There will be a lot of great child care providers that don't meet the unrealistic expectations of the QRIS that will be lost to the wayside simply because they don't meet the educational parts of the program. (By educational, I mean having a degree).
I agree.

I hope that I can squeeze enough income to last 7 more years out of my daycare business. They are making it difficult for me to pay my bills with QRIS and the new early FREE preschool that has taken my babies and placed them in school.
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snbauser 11:35 AM 05-29-2014
Gave my responses in bold below.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
  • What do you like/dislike about the program? I don't think that our program is good or bad because it isn't required that we do anything other than we follow licensing regulations. All providers when starting out are given a 1 star rating. After 6 months we can choose to stay at 1 star or request a "star rating assessment". Ours is a 2 component star rating. Each component has a 1-7 point scale and there is a way to get an extra quality point. The number of points you get determines your star rating. Part 1 is based on education and part 2 is based on program. Education is just that, what kind of background you have in ECE AND what kind of experience in child care you have. Part 2 is based on your program and ranges from 1 point as a program that meets minimal licensing standards to 7 points that requires licensing standards, policies, FCCERS-R of a minimun 5.0, and a reduced number of infants. The requirement of FCCERS-R in order to get anything more than 2 points towards your program bothers me. I think mostly because I think that FCCERS-R has way too many grey areas that are open to interpretation by the assessor and other parts that are way to black and white. For example a couple of years ago I went through the process and I had plenty of adult seating. But because me or my assistant at the time didn't actually use it while the assessor was here, we were marked off for it. And when I just had the assessment done, one of my dck's was 8 days shy of 3 years old and actually developmentally was probably closer to 3 1/2. But I got dinged on things like rubber bands, small pieces, ziploc storage bags, etc because they are a "choking hazard for under 3" If they paid any attention during the 4 hours they were here they would have seen that this child was long past the stage of putting things in her mouth.
  • Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? I don't really think it does much of anything because it is not required that you increase your rating. But I think the requirement for FCCERS-R is not appropriate for a system that uses the results to compare facilities
  • Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? Rarely. In 7 years here, I have honestly only had 1 person tell me they found me by looking at licensings website and checking out the star ratings. All the others have either been through my advertising or through referrals.
  • Do you feel the program is provider friendly? The big incentive when they started this program was a financial incentive, grants, paid trainings, etc. But slowly those have been cut from the budgets and now we are expected to do it on our own. In that aspect, it is not provider friendly and can be costly for a FCC provider. Other than that, I would say it isn't a bad program and is fairly provider friendly
  • Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Our system has the same star ratings for centers and ih-home's but the requirements for each star level are different
  • Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? Although difficult, it is possible to be a 5 star without a degree. I am currently 5 stars and am one class away from finishing my Associates
  • Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? If you are a 4 or 5 star program and have 4 y/o's enrolled, you are required to use a state approved curriculum
  • Does your state require assessments? How often and what types? I'm guessing you are referring to program assessments and not child assessments. If we want to be more than 3 stars, you must go through the FCCERS-R assessment. And that assessment must be redone every 3 years
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome!

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.

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Annalee 11:42 AM 05-29-2014
Are there any states that are mandated by law to have a FCCERS-R assessment yearly? In TN it is in the law, but it looks like all other states are voluntary when it comes to the FCCERS-R assessment tool. Just wondering! Thanks!
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Country Kids 11:52 AM 05-29-2014
In our state it will become a regulation that if you want to receive state pay children you have to do the QRIS program. No STARS no state pay. I haven't had state pay in years, but I think its wrong to do.

Also we actually have some Head Starts that are doing QRIS which is ironic to me because that is what the whole thing is based off of! They will automatically receive a 5 star.
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snbauser 11:54 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
In our state it will become a regulation that if you want to receive state pay children you have to do the QRIS program. No STARS no state pay. I haven't had state pay in years, but I think its wrong to do.
I don't have any state paid and haven't in a while but my understanding is that a few years ago they changed it here so that the amount of reimbursement the state paid was based on the number of STARS and if you had less than 3 stars, they wouldn't pay at all.
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Annalee 11:55 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
In our state it will become a regulation that if you want to receive state pay children you have to do the QRIS program. No STARS no state pay. I haven't had state pay in years, but I think its wrong to do.

Also we actually have some Head Starts that are doing QRIS which is ironic to me because that is what the whole thing is based off of! They will automatically receive a 5 star.
Some headstarts here have received 0 stars before. They obviously have no control of some of their kids and one got left on the playground...they were cited and are now on probation!
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Annalee 11:58 AM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by snbauser:
I don't have any state paid and haven't in a while but my understanding is that a few years ago they changed it here so that the amount of reimbursement the state paid was based on the number of STARS and if you had less than 3 stars, they wouldn't pay at all.
The stars here is what your state pay is based on as well. I have not had state kids in a few years so I am not really affected by the pay scale.
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Sugar Magnolia 11:58 AM 05-29-2014
1. I line the concept, dislike the implementation.
2. It appears to working in the manner designed.
3. I did get some enrollment through the program while I was participating.
4. Not especially provider friendly, because the program admins make you feel like you don't care about quality when you decide to opt out.
5. Geared towards both but VERY different criteria for "administrative" items. Centers have about 4 times more administrative requirements. By my book, administrative duties have little to do with quality environments.
6. Degrees a must for highest level.
7. Yes, you must use approved curriculum.
8. Computer based assessments required.

My reason for leaving was based on the administrative requirements. I am licensed as a center and operate more like a large family daycare. Why should I do staff meetings and staff reviews and such with just me and my husband? I have a degree, but my hubby.doesn't, so we are automatically excluded from the "75 percent of all lead teachers have a. degree" . We are 50 percent, because we are 2 PEOPLE. Sheesh! 75 percent mathematically impossible. This was my biggest gripe.

I do believe in the program, but I was sick of the way they tried to jam my square peg center into their round hole program. There was NO acceptance of a multi age program for small centers either, but was perfectly ok for home providers. Not fair!
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Childminder 12:02 PM 05-29-2014
Here in MI they are giving providers a raise if you have a star rating, 3 stars $.25, 4 stars $.50 and 5 stars $.75, for State subsidy children. Effective in July if all goes as planned.

Thing is I don't get a raise the parent does. I charge the same amount the parent will just have a smaller copay.
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Leanna 12:15 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
That was sort of the point of my post.

WE know the difference and the importance.

QRIS does not agree though.

THEY are the ones separating it.

There will be a lot of great child care providers that don't meet the unrealistic expectations of the QRIS that will be lost to the wayside simply because they don't meet the educational parts of the program. (By educational, I mean having a degree).

That is what I find sad.
I don't know how to set up a poll on here, but I am curious how many people disagree with the QRIS mainly because, in most places, in order to achieve a high rating the provider must have a degree.
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Heidi 12:22 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
I don't know how to set up a poll on here, but I am curious how many people disagree with the QRIS mainly because, in most places, in order to achieve a high rating the provider must have a degree.
Funny thing is, at least one of those people HAS a bachelor's degree in ECE...BC

I am 4 classes away from my associates, which is the highest I need. I have been working on it for the last 2 1/2 years. Fortunately, I had almost all my generals done, or it'd be several more years!
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Annalee 12:30 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Funny thing is, at least one of those people HAS a bachelor's degree in ECE...BC

I am 4 classes away from my associates, which is the highest I need. I have been working on it for the last 2 1/2 years. Fortunately, I had almost all my generals done, or it'd be several more years!
Here, though, our report card is set up to where all revolves around assessment score for FCCERS-R. A person can have a BS in ECE, NAFCC Accredited, CDA, etc. and all high stars in the other components but if their score does not at least reach a 4 on the assessment component, the report card is a big, fat 0....... The assessment holds entirely too much clout!!!!
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Blackcat31 12:30 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
I don't know how to set up a poll on here, but I am curious how many people disagree with the QRIS mainly because, in most places, in order to achieve a high rating the provider must have a degree.
I'll make a poll... Great idea Leanna!
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Leanna 12:54 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Heidi:
Funny thing is, at least one of those people HAS a bachelor's degree in ECE...BC

I am 4 classes away from my associates, which is the highest I need. I have been working on it for the last 2 1/2 years. Fortunately, I had almost all my generals done, or it'd be several more years!
I also have a bachelor's in early childhood education...and oppose QRIS for many other reasons!
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Blackcat31 02:08 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
Here in MI they are giving providers a raise if you have a star rating, 3 stars $.25, 4 stars $.50 and 5 stars $.75, for State subsidy children. Effective in July if all goes as planned.

Thing is I don't get a raise the parent does. I charge the same amount the parent will just have a smaller copay.
My state pays x amount of dollars to a provider for subsidy pay.

If the provider is accredited, they receive 15% more than x pay.

If the provider is QRIS rated, they receive 20% more than x pay.

I scratched my head about that too as the parents are the one's getting the benefit there....NOT me and yet I did all the work.

For example, prior to doing QRIS, I received about $3 per week less from the subsidy program than what I actually charged.

The parent paid that $3 difference.

Now I would qualify to receive 20% more so the parent would now owe me nothing.


Parent did nothing but got the financial benefit.
I did everything and got nothing. (well beside the rating etc..)

Funny how no one on the government or agency levels saw that.... or if they did, why would they not change it in some way to benefit providers for the time/effort they put into it.

Also, I've heard that parents will or maybe getting some additional tax break if they use a program that participates. AGAIN, a benefit to the parent.
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SignMeUp 05:36 PM 05-29-2014
BlackCat, because everyone seems to see CCAP as a provider benefit, not a family benefit. It is a family benefit!!!
And with unionization, if you care for children of families on the program, you can't charge the family the difference but the $$ will come right out of your paycheck. Grrrrr.
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Childminder 05:52 PM 05-29-2014
The union mess that hit Michigan a few years ago "got providers a raise" for subsidy children. Yep, and I made $.01 per hour less after I paid union dues.

Also the same thing, parents got the benefit for our hassle in dealing with the union.

The following is a quote from a provider on facebook I thought you might appreciate:

"The star program was set up to get us to work for the state. The more stars we have, the more federal funds the state of Michigan receives. What are they doing with those funds? They are developing free preschool programs for 3 year olds. Ask any dhs parent which they prefer, paying the difference in cost to a home based day care or paying nothing for a public based preschool. You know darn well they are going to take the free program that WE are paying for. Please look into the origination of the star system and ask the bold questions before getting in too deep with your time and YOUR money. I did, and I am so glad I haven't wasted a dollar or a minute of my time playing puppet for the state of Michigan."
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SignMeUp 06:03 PM 05-29-2014
Wow, Childminder, I had not heard that type of history of the rating program.

All I really know in my state is that some people that I respect at resource & referral centers are against it, but afraid to say so. And others are all for it.

And I always get the impression that if you speak against it, it is held against you, as if you are against quality. I am not against quality child care, and I think that where I live, licensing let too many poorly qualified people into family child care. When all the crack-downs started, I hoped they were just weeding out the bad providers. But it is going far beyond that. I do fear that FCC will be shut out. I think BlackCat said ten years - I have said twenty years (for about ten years )
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Annalee 06:12 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Childminder:
The union mess that hit Michigan a few years ago "got providers a raise" for subsidy children. Yep, and I made $.01 per hour less after I paid union dues.

Also the same thing, parents got the benefit for our hassle in dealing with the union.

The following is a quote from a provider on facebook I thought you might appreciate:

"The star program was set up to get us to work for the state. The more stars we have, the more federal funds the state of Michigan receives. What are they doing with those funds? They are developing free preschool programs for 3 year olds. Ask any dhs parent which they prefer, paying the difference in cost to a home based day care or paying nothing for a public based preschool. You know darn well they are going to take the free program that WE are paying for. Please look into the origination of the star system and ask the bold questions before getting in too deep with your time and YOUR money. I did, and I am so glad I haven't wasted a dollar or a minute of my time playing puppet for the state of Michigan."
I am not in Michigan, but pre-k took over for a while here but due to budget cuts has not expanded....You are right, we CANNOT compete with FREE DAYCARE. We have not been introduced to any form of union at this time, but nothing here would surprise me anymore...There has to be a way to promote quality child care across the board without all of the hoopla providers are faced with at this time....sounds like CHAOS is abounding everywhere....
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Annalee 06:20 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Wow, Childminder, I had not heard that type of history of the rating program.

All I really know in my state is that some people that I respect at resource & referral centers are against it, but afraid to say so. And others are all for it.

And I always get the impression that if you speak against it, it is held against you, as if you are against quality. I am not against quality child care, and I think that where I live, licensing let too many poorly qualified people into family child care. When all the crack-downs started, I hoped they were just weeding out the bad providers. But it is going far beyond that. I do fear that FCC will be shut out. I think BlackCat said ten years - I have said twenty years (for about ten years )
Yep, above and beyond the weeding out process. CCR&R here are not against the QRIS. Actually, all child care organizations have bonded as protection for their jobs. Every organization knows where I stand at this point up to legislation. Also, I agree with you that if you speak up, these organizations learn how you feel and they do "talk" amongst themselves...QRIS has been mandated in law here since 2002. The first 3/4 years I REALLY tried to embrace QRIS and mentored providers to do the same, but reached a point, I could not consciously do it anymore. While I remain professional, I have and am on the bandwagon to get someone to listen.....sadly, to no avail up to now!
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Lucy 07:06 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Leanna:
I don't know how to set up a poll on here, but I am curious how many people disagree with the QRIS mainly because, in most places, in order to achieve a high rating the provider must have a degree.
I disagree with it because I don't want to run a scheduled, daily curriculum. That's not why I'm a Provider. I'm a safe, happy, fun place for kids to come while their parents work. That's it. I'm not an educator. That's why they go to schools. I'm a CARE home, not a place of education.

I think we're losing focus on what HOME DAYCARE is. Why should we be responsible for educating kids? If that's your thing, I'm happy to encourage you. ("YOU" in general, not the person I quoted!) I have nothing against it. But it's not my purpose at all. I resent that the states are expecting me to conform.

Sorry that this, and my previous post are so ... I don't know ... adamant?? I'm just really against this intrusion and oversight. Could you tell? LOL
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Leanna 08:46 PM 05-29-2014
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I disagree with it because I don't want to run a scheduled, daily curriculum. That's not why I'm a Provider. I'm a safe, happy, fun place for kids to come while their parents work. That's it. I'm not an educator. That's why they go to schools. I'm a CARE home, not a place of education.

I think we're losing focus on what HOME DAYCARE is. Why should we be responsible for educating kids? If that's your thing, I'm happy to encourage you. I have nothing against it. But it's not my purpose at all. I resent that the states are expecting me to conform.

Sorry that this, and my previous post are so ... I don't know ... adamant?? I'm just really against this intrusion and oversight. Could you tell? LOL
My questions was simply a question. Read my earlier posts on this thread.
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Lucy 08:54 PM 05-29-2014
Huh?

My answer was in general. Not directed AT you, just quoted you to explain what specifically I dislike about it.

"I am curious how many people disagree with the QRIS mainly because ... the provider must have a degree."

I just took the above and ran with it / answered it... to the masses. None of what I said was to YOU specifically. Sorry!!!
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Heidi 11:46 AM 05-30-2014
Each union is different!

Ours has been fighting against QRIS on our behalf. But, because our governor took away a lot of their powers, and not enough people join the union to actually give them leverage, it hasn't helped much.

They did, however, get a former daycare provider onto the legislator, and she has gone to bat for us time and time again on the extreme things DCF gets in their heads.
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Renae82 04:00 PM 06-04-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am currently participating in my state's QRIS or star rating system.

Since these programs are fairly new (within the last 5 years) and have not reached all states yet, the process is an on-going learning experience for both the state as well as the provider and families in care.

I am currently collecting feedback data from providers (both in home and center based) about their experiences with their state's QRIS program.

Basically I am wondering if any of you who do participate (whether just starting to or having completed the process) would be willing to share with me their feedback/comments/experiences.
  • What do you like/dislike about the program? Providers are being held to higher standards, gives professional providers something to work towards. We are given a yearly grant as well as scholarships based on our star rating
  • Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to? I think it would work better if all providers could participate. Right now there is a waiting list, I waited for nearly 2 years. So it is not really a tool parents can use while looking for child care because not everyone can participate.
  • Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs? See above. In fact many parents don't even know about it. In my area there are 10 providers that are participating. The majority of our providers are not even regulated
  • Do you feel the program is provider friendly? Yes, for the most part though I have just entered the program
  • Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment? Separate for each enviroment
  • Is the highest star level attainable without a degree? There are up to 5 stars available, you can get up to a 3 or 4 without a degree, I don't remember which
  • Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use? No, but they must meet the state early learning standards, we can even create our own
  • Does your state require assessments? How often and what types?I wasn't sure if this question meant assessments on the children or our program so I will answer both. We are required to do observations and assessments on the children though I am not sure how often as I just joined the program. If a provider is a 1-3 star they get 3 assessments per year (FCCERS, CLASS, and Quality). If they are 4-5 star they are assessed every 3 years.
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome!

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.
Hope that helps, I am fairly new to the program but so far it seems great.
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CityGarden 10:08 PM 03-24-2016
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I just got into our pilot program but haven't actually started yet. We should be starting in the summer.

just by looking at our sheet of requirements I noticed that we need to take additional training in things like ERS, CLASS, CA Learning Foundations and Frameworks, ASQ, DAP, and an assessment that I can't quite remember the name of right now. I'm already in the stipend program to get money for going to college to get my CA teaching permits (in CA most centers require a teaching permit especially quality ones and all preschool teachers are required to have one or have a teaching credential), so anyway ... a bunch of this training is also required in the stipend program so I won't have to retake the trainings. That will make my life that much easier.
Would you be willing to share or PM me what stipend program to get money for getting your Teaching Credential you are using? Also I have not heard of this program in CA, how is it going?
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spedmommy4 06:20 PM 03-25-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I am currently participating in my state's QRIS or star rating . . .
  • What do you like/dislike about the program?
  • Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?
  • Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs?
  • Do you feel the program is provider friendly?
  • Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment?
  • Is the highest star level attainable without a degree?
  • Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use?
  • Does your state require assessments? How often and what types?
ANY other feedback you want to give in regards to your experiences both during the rating process as well as afterwards that you are willing to share would be awesome!

If you don't want to post openly, you are MORE than welcome to PM me or e-mail me.
Like/dislike?
I'm in California so we are just launching ours.
So far, I like that: it's not mandatory, they assess providers on a variety of qualitys, they are soliciting provider feedback, California is soliciting parent feedback.

I dislike that: the FCCERS assessors are poorly trained and have ended up making a lot of providers feel terribly about their programs, they only allow one assessment (DRDP), and they push physicals for all kids. My issue with that has been that some parents don't take their kids and then you get penalized for not having the form.

Does it work in the manner it was designed to?

Sort of. Right now, I believe California intends it to get providers used to the QRIS system and incentivize providers to participate. It's doing that. I think that California would also like to see parents choose based on quality ratings but I haven't seen that happen.

Are parents using it? No, I don't believe so. First 5 isn't marketing that aspect of the program well.

Is the program provider friendly?
I personally did not experience any difficulty with the program or the process;however, I sit on the board of directors for our childcare association and I am hearing significant frustration from others. All the people assessing Providers are new to doing it and it's been a learning process for everyone.

Framework? Each has it's own framework.

Can you achieve the highest level of quality without a degree? It's possible but it would take a long time.

Specific curriculum? No, thank goodness.

Assessments? Yes, the DRDP assessment and ASQ screening twice annually.
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Meeko 07:15 PM 03-25-2016
Originally Posted by Lucy:
I've been clear elsewhere on the forum that I am strongly against this program. I have no interest in stars. I get my clients from ads in our local newspaper, and occasionally, from personal referrals. Not once in 20 years have I ever been sent a prospect from the county's referral service. So a rating would not benefit me. The parents I get know nothing about this program.

Even if I DID get several county referrals, I still have no interest in doing this. I provide "just like family", or "just like home" care. I have always gotten them at a very young age - some just weeks old - and kept them long term. (10-12 years) It seems, to my understanding of the system, that it is largely based on having a curriculum of some sort. Tell me how I would do that for my current group of 6-11 year olds?

To go even further, even if I DID do pre-school ages, I have zero interest in doing a formal curriculum, although I might reluctantly do a half-assed one next school year for 3 hours/day while the bigger kids are in school ... only because I need that income. But it's going to be by MY design, which I know for sure would NOT fit the stars system's criteria. I certainly don't want the government involved in it; telling me what curriculum is ok to use and sticking their noses in to make sure I'm doing it "right" (THEIR version of "right").

So... all that being said... it is currently voluntary in my state, and obviously I did not volunteer. But if, on the off chance, that perfect family checked with the county to be matched up with a provider in my small town, are they going to call the 3, 4, 5 star provider, or someone who isn't even rated?

Parents will think of it like Hotel stars. Wouldn't you rather stay at a 5-star hotel than a 1-star? Or worse yet, one that wasn't even good enough to warrant ANY stars?

You see, it discriminates against me. And it seems I've heard there are financial kickbacks for reaching certain plateaus? I could be wrong there, but something in the back of my mind is saying that I read that somewhere. If so, I'll never see any of that.

I don't want to run the type of program that the stars system wants. I want to have families enroll with me, have their kids come to my house and feel as safe and comfortable as they do in their own house, to make great friends here, to WANT to come here, to grow up here, to take them to the summer reading program, swim lessons, basketball camp at the local church, the free lunch program our town offers in summer, the awesome Lego store in town, the park, McDonald's playland on rainy days, etc., etc. I'm not the type to be tied down at home with a forced curriculum and schedule. My kids learn -- don't get me wrong!! I take every organically-occurring opportunity to teach. I've had some pretty smart kids go through here, and I recognize and nurture that. I just don't want to do it THEIR way (the state's). Call me a rebel I suppose. I just know that I have ZERO interest in the stars program.

I'm sure all that ^ isn't what you were after, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Also, where's the money coming from to implement and maintain this system? I feel there are MUCH better places to put that money than to have Big Brother peering into my home. I don't begrudge those of you who like it. In fact, if this is for you, then I encourage you and cheer for you to receive the top star rating. It's just not for me.
I agree with every single word!!
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Febby 08:02 PM 03-25-2016
I primarily have experience with STARS from a center-based prospective. Every center I've ever worked in was STARS rated.

What do you like/dislike about the program?
I like that it tries to reward providers who go above and beyond the basic regulations. I do like that, in my state, people from the program will offer quite a bit of assistance with figuring out how to actually achieve the requirements. I do not like that providers must be STARS rated to accept CCAP. I do not like that providers are being pushed into the program. I do not like that a STARS rating is not necessarily a reflection of the actual quality of care.

Does it work in the manner in which it was designed to?

It does to a certain extent. It has, in my state, help educate on providers on the various "best practices" and give providers goals. However, a center's STARS rating does not always actually reflect the quality of care and education.

Are parents using it as a tool to choose/decipher quality care from other programs?

The only parents I even know who care about a program's STARS rating are the ones who need a STARS rated provider because they receive CCAP.

Do you feel the program is provider friendly?

Yes, but only due to the amount of assistance available from our QRIS people.

Is it geared primarily for centers or in-home care or does your state have separate framework for each environment?

My state has separate requirements for type I (traditional) centers and for type II (in-home) centers and family providers. However, I do feel that most of the focus is on centers.

Is the highest star level attainable without a degree?

Any rating level can be achieved with at least a CDA; however, at the highest level (4 star) programs must be accredited by an early childhood development association, such as the NAEYC and meet that program's requirements as well.

Does your state have specific curriculums you are required to use?

No.

Does your state require assessments? How often and what types?

Yes, at least one STARS rating visit per year. A STARS rating visit is a ECERS evaluation plus confirming required paperwork. 4 star centers must also complete accrediation requirements separately.

While I truly dislike having inspectors and observers in my classroom, I do not feel that there is enough follow through (in my state) with the program. They come once per year (and this year they're behind, my center is four months overdue for a visit!) and they give providers a time frame in which they'll come. So if you were visited in September, you know they're not showing up in November. A lot of centers do not follow the guidelines/requirements for the rating level except during their visitation window.

Every center I've ever worked in has been STARS rated. The first center I ever worked at was STARS 2 and ended up being SHUT DOWN BY STATE due to not following a huge number of regulations, including obtaining proper background checks. They maintained that rating, without issue, until the center was shut down because they managed to get it together in time for their annual visit.
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