Parents 21 91.30%

Governement 2 8.70%

For Homeschooling 14 60.87%

For School Vouchers 8 34.78%

Against Homeschooling 0 0%

Against School Vouchers 4 17.39%

This is from a conservative website. The article hit on some things that are worrisome to those that homeschool. Especially this:

This case demonstrates conclusively why the Romeike asylum case is so important. Families in Germany need a safe place where they can educate their children in peace.” The Romeike case has been submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2010, an immigration judge granted asylum in the U.S. to the family, which fled Germany because their children were forced to go to public schools.

The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-st...GdtvxVarUtQ.99

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"The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government"

~...Can't say I'm shocked but what a darn shame!! I remember hearing about this German family, the Romeike case, when it first made headlines so I'm glad for an update of any kind though I wish it were better news. Thanks for posting Michael!

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What a scary ruling to have in our laws!! If that isn't setting up for a government controlled country I don't know what is!!
They are disarming us, taking away our parenting rights (of course most parents see pre-k as free daycare!), controlling our health care and allowing the ability to support ourselves to dwindle!
I wish people would look beyond their own comfort and see the big picture of what is happening all around us no matter what party or beliefs each of us has!!

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An opposing viewpoint.

I had never heard of this case so Googled it to see if I could find more. I have never seen this site or blog before but it makes some points that seem to make sense to me. I'm not sure what HSLDA is but I assume from this article that is must be an American homeschooling organization.

Nearer to the end of this blog entry there is some conjecture and opinions given but it explains some of the legalities and is worth it to read. The comments people made after the article are interesting as well.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoy...-v-holder.html

Laurel

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I did read it... I'm still scared

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I just read an article at abc news on this. It just seems like a case of a family not agreeing with their country's laws so seeking asylum here but so far our courts see no grounds for their asylum according to our laws regarding this. They are going to ask the Supreme Court to hear the case so we'll see I guess.

Probably by the time they get all the court stuff out of the way the kids will be grown. They've already lived here 3 years I think the article said and are home schooling in Tennessee.

Laurel

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Yes- they were already grated asylum so why the change now?? My opinion is this has nothing to do with the family!
And while I understand they cannot be granted asylum based on not being allowed to home school I would think it took it to a whole other level when their home was invaded and their children were removed and they were not told where they were or if they would see them again.

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I'm not a lawyer but I imagine they are following the law and court system on this case just like any other.

On further reading though it has always been the law in Germany that home schooling was not allowed. This family had to know this. Some articles say they were given fines, warnings, etc. It wasn't just like one day they just swooped down on them out of the blue. This family was knowingly breaking the law. What did they expect would happen? It could be said that they were responsible for putting their children through this when they decided to break the law. They knew what would happen and did it anyway. I can't feel too sorry for them but I do feel sorry for the children.

I am not making any judgment on Germany's law but these people have some responsibility as well. If they had the means to re-locate (which they obviously did as they came to the U.S.) then why not just legally re-locate somewhere that allowed homeschooling?

I just don't feel that sorry for them. I do think that homeschooling should be allowed but that is just my opinion. I can't impose it on Germany or anyone else.

It is unfortunate but they are German citizens and this is between them and their country.

I guess we'll see what the Supreme Courts say though.

Laurel

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I do understand that it was against the law in Germany and that is Germany's right. I agree.
I didn't see anything (I've only read two articles) that said they received warnings- yes I agree they were most likely knowingly breaking the law.
I am under the assumption that this home schooling group most likely paid their way to the US and are providing their legal fees. I wouldn't assume they had the funds to move but if they did that would have been a better choice.
I do wonder why the verdict was re-assessed and changed.
Yes- it will be interesting to see what the SC says about the situation
I just feel like because the battle is happening here it will have more effect on our future laws than I would personally like.

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If I'm not mistaken on any of this, US Asylum had already been granted to the Romeikes. In January of 2010, U.S. immigration judge, Lawrence O. Burman, granted asylum in the United States to the Romeikes. Two months later ICE appealed the decision and so here we are I guess.

The U.S. law of asylum allows a refugee to stay in the United States if they can show that they are being persecuted for one of several specific reasons. Among these are persecution for religious reasons & persecution of a particular social group.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...00082ca60aRCRD

~Burman on his decision-

Judge Burman observed that the rights being denied the Romeikes were “basic human rights that no country has a right to violate.” In addition, the judge expressed concern that while Germany is a democratic country and is an ally of the United States, this particular policy of persecuting homeschoolers is “repellent to everything we believe in as Americans.”

He had determined that the German state’s policy of imposing heavy fines, the loss of custody of children, and possible criminal prosecution over homeschooling amounted to persecution.


...On Germany's justification of their homeschool ban-

"In our increasingly multicultural society school is the place for a peaceful dialogue between different opinions, values, religions and ideologies"

"It is a training ground for social tolerance. Therefore home-schooling is not an option for Germany." Berlin's education minister, Juergen Zoellner



~Sweden's reasons-

"Children have the right to be taught by professional teachers, and the teaching should be objective and based on science". -Bertil Ostberg

"Schools should be a meeting place where tolerance and social values are communicated".

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Personally I agree with the original ruling... I hope it works out for them.

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I wonder if the Supreme Court will even take the case.

What effect on our future laws do you mean? Do you mean about home schooling or asylum issues?

I think that home schooling is a state issue and the asylum issue is a federal issue. Not sure and not sure how that all works.

Laurel

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The articles I read:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/home-school...?id=18842383#1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3283575.html

For anyone who is interested.

Laurel

P.S. Edited to add one more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511825,00.html

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Home schooling mostly... My understanding is once we have something "in the books" then other rulings can and are based off those. So if we have US courts ruling that schooling is not a matter of parental choice but government choice I worry that can be used here to change what is acceptable and allowed. To me the law in Germany is a scary one!
But it is completely possible that my parents have just made me say to paranoid politically!

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Oh now I understand what you mean. I don't think you'd have to worry about that. I really don't know a lot about home schooling here but it is pretty well established in our country. I also don't think it is a statement about education if they are sent back. It is a statement about if you don't like your country's laws then can you come to the U.S. to avoid them? In some cases, of course. In other cases, not so much. This doesn't seem to be a case where they are in grave danger so need to seek asylum to me.

Way back when my adult children were little I was considering home schooling. Not because of any religious reasons as I am not religious. We were moving and I didn't know how good the schools were. At that time in Ohio where I lived I was told I'd have to be a certified teacher to do it. I researched it a little and home schoolers were fighting to have it and I didn't think it was worth the bother. Then a few years later I was subbing for the school secretary and the principal told me a parent would be stopping to pick up some books for her home schooling student. So by then, public schools were mandated to supply the books which I think is only fair because home schooling parents are also paying their taxes.

My neighbor was home schooled here in Florida for several years and she helped me in my childcare also. It was not for religious reasons either. She was falling behind in school and they tried private school and that wasn't working either. Her parents worked with her and got her from being behind to a grade ahead. Now she is a teacher! I fully support home schooling because I think nothing beats one on one as far as academics.

I feel for the German parents but I just wonder if this is a legitimate reason for asylum.

Well it makes for a nice discussion anyway. I love debating.

Laurel

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I love debating too
I also like learning...
I do support home schooling - for whatever reason. I did almost homeschool my oldest at one point because the school system was failing him. I am glad that I didn't have to tho I do agree that homeschooling is the best option if the parent is good at it!

I wonder if the German family has "warrants" out for them. I think of having the children removed (if it went down as reported) to be extreme and abusive.
If we decide they can no longer hide here I hope they have the opportunity to go somewhere in Europe where they will be safe.

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IMO I think the original article is misleading a bit. No where else can I find anything about the Obama administration (not a fan of BTW) being "unhappy" (or really involved personally) over this and saying that parents have no right to determine how their children are educated. The US is one of the top counties for homeschooling, obviously they do allow parents to do as the choose (within the laws obviously). This article also makes it sound as though this has just happened, not that it was back in 2006. Maybe I was reading it wrong, my phone had issues loading it.

IMO this has nothing to do with homeschooling rights of US citizens or laws. Just because its a right and legal here doesn't mean it has to be in every other country. It said this family has been cited and fined many times so I agree with the pp that said it wasn't like they suddenly, without warning, were harassed. I'm not saying I support what happened, I think the whole situation is ridiculous honestly, but they knew the laws and received warnings.

What its about it to me is asylum for one family who wants to homeschool. Honestly I think its a bit much, why can't they go through the normal immigration routes and avoid all this? From what I understand about asylum cases, the US only grants so many and honesty there are much more terrible things being done to people that not being able to homeschool.

I think homeschooling is great, I'm debating doing it when DD reaches SA but I don't think its worthy of asylum. I also wonder if there is more to this story as 2 articles made mention that they were also investigated in France by the french version of DHS

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I agree with your overall point.
This is why I rarely watch or read most news. Everything is bias to one side or the other... So we, as Americans, rarely get just the facts. It is sad really.
And I agree another country should not have to allow home schooling.
I'm sure just like everything else it's a big political mess

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I agree. It seems a bit much to me too.

I had a rude awakening one time when I believed a newspaper article.

In our area there was a baby who died of SIDS while in a home daycare. Well a newspaper article said that the provider was watching too many children illegally. It doesn't seem like she did anything wrong as far as this particular baby though. It was his first day.

I wrote a letter to the editor wondering why parents who brought their children to her did so knowing she had so many. I wrote that they had to know when they saw all the children that something wasn't right. Well, that evening the dad of the baby who died called me regarding my letter. When I saw his last name on the caller I.D. I was very hesitant to answer but did. He was very nice but told me the REST of the story. It turns out she was hiding them when parents arrived. He was very nice and my heart was breaking for him.

From then on though, I never believed anything I read. Well I do a little but I try to read more than one source before I decide. I also notice inconsistencies like you do.

I read articles from the conservative paper, the liberal one and what I consider to be pretty objective which is ABC news. Even putting them all together, it seems there is more to this story than is reported. I saw no evidence that it had anything to do with the administration. In fact, one article said the administration said they wouldn't comment on this court case.

Laurel

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It is FRUSTRATING!!!! But good to know abc seems to be in the middle. I refuse to watch fox or NBC because they both admit to being bias! I don't want to hear what I want to hear... I want facts to form my own decision!

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Well if they do have warrants this could be a whole different ball game. Then are we harboring fugitives? This is getting weirder and weirder.

From the articles I referenced I believe one did say that they had been warned and had been fined which is their protocol. One even said they had thousands in fines that had been accuring because they were fined per child per each day that the children weren't in school. Don't know what to believe but it appears they had been repeatedly told to send them to school and didn't. If that is true, what else were they to do?

Once when I was working as a sub secretary in an elementary school the police had to be called for a 6th grader. He was new to the school and kept running away. The teacher couldn't continually watch him and the other children too. After conferences with the most wonderful principal I have ever met (well besides our own elementary school's principal) the boy just continued to run out the classroom door that led to the outside. It was a safety issue for the boy and the students left alone if the teacher had to go chase him.

It was scary when I saw the cops try to talk to the boy and finally he had to wrestle him to the ground and cuff him....yes, a sixth grader who did not seem violent but wouldn't stop running.

In the German case, it seems like parents should be arrested if necessary but the children be left alone. It isn't their fault. The one article said the children were taken to school by the cops. Who knows what really happened though?

No matter what though it just doesn't seem to be a U.S. matter. It is a German matter. Just my opinion. We'll see what happens in court though I guess.

Laurel

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I used to belong to a political discussion (fighting? ) forum. I found the best way to debate was to use completely unbiased sites if they were available. For example, when we were debating (arguing?) about censorship I referenced the library site (forget what that is called). If we were talking about something military, I would reference their official site. I tried to stay away from regular news sites if possible. If we were debating welfare issues I'd try to get real facts from the Dept. of Labor statistics, etc.

I don't do that anymore (debate politics). That was a waste of my precious time!

Laurel

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Yes- I find that with politics people stand where they stand. While I am generally more conservative I try to look at things on a case by case basis but it is harder and harder to do!
Basically I have come to the point where I don't trust most of what I read or hear. If it has to do with me directly I try to seek out the most unbiased info I can find.
I can't imagine being part of a political forum!! Give me over tired two year olds over that any day!

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~...Me too!


I am not sure but I believe they do or are either facing threats of warrants, fines, etc. upon return(when I find definite info I'll link it for you). Also, they had had an incident where die polizei had picked up their children, without them knowing, and driven them to public school or something like that. If interested you should read about Melissa Busekros, a 15 year old German girl, who was committed to an insane asylum and put into foster care because she wanted to be homeschooled & Klaus & Kathrin Landahl and their 5 children who fled Germany(plus the long list of other similar incidents). Just the fact that such things can and have happened to homeschooling families there would be reason enough to cause me sure terror, but if I understood correctly, the Romeikes were already being harassed, bullied or what have you.

One of the things that really gets me with all this is that the Obama administration is pushing amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants yet we don't have room for this one German family who is here legally. Interestingly enough, the Tsarnaevs, the Boston marathon bombing Tsarnaevs, along with their family were granted US asylum(the reason they gave-- As ethnic Chechens they sought asylum from anti-Muslim persecution because of the war Russia had waged against Islamic militants in Chechnya)and their family has not been deported since. ...I don't know .

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I would love to see links
I can't imagine they were granted asylum in the first place if there wasn't a threat beyond sending their children to school. And from what I read the fact that their children were removed the way they were is petrifying enough!
Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!
Yes- that whole bombing situation is scary!

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I believe the original interpretation of Obama's position on homeschooling was from a far right website. That being said, I've extrapolated my views, from reading differing articles/blogs, that this administration prefers the government take the leading role of educating our children. While that in itself seems obvious, when you read between the lines you see this government fights against school vouchers (which empower parents and stimulates competition IMO) and support UN commissions on education which believe the government knows what's best for our children, and will enforce it. I am starting a poll asking those of us, Who Knows What's Best for our Children; parents/family or government.

Here are some tidbits from opposite viewpoints:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Ba..._homeschooling
President Obama supports the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the UN tribunal authorized to interpret and enforce the Children's Convention, sets forth an exhaustive index of children's rights, many at odds with the rights of parents. It has held, for instance, that Britain violated children's rights in Wales by allowing parents to withdraw their children from public school programs without first considering the children's wishes. In other words, the United Nations has determined that the government will decide what is best for our children.

http://voices.yahoo.com/does-barack-...se-907297.html
A later quote said to be from Mr. Obama's book, says that we should go by "Lincoln's simple maxim: that we will do collectively, through our government, only those things we cannot do as well or at all individually and privately. In other words, we should be guided by what works."
Based on those quotes, assuming they are, in fact, from Barack's book, it does seem that he may well support the choice to school children at home.

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Whomever voted against school vouchers, I would like to know the reasoning? I can't think of why it would be a bad idea.

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"Romeike, his wife Hannelore, and their children live in a modest duplex about 40 miles northeast of Knoxville while they seek political asylum here. They say they were persecuted for their evangelical Christian beliefs and homeschooling their children in Germany, where school attendance is compulsory.


When the Romeikes wouldn't comply with repeated orders to send the children to school, police came to their home one October morning in 2006 and took the children, crying and upset, to school.


"We tried not to open the door, but they (police) kept ringing the doorbell for 15 or 20 minutes," Romeike said. "They called us by phone and spoke on the answering machine and said they would knock open the door if we didn't open it. So I opened it."


Romeike, like many conservative parents in the U.S., said he wanted to teach his own children because his children's German school textbooks contained language and ideas that conflicted with his family's values.


He had to pay fines equivalent to hundreds of dollars for his decision, and he's afraid that if he returns to Germany, police will arrest him and government authorities will take away his children, who range in age from 11 to 3".


~Respectfully Snipped From & Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...#ixzz2dl8KtSlL




“This is not over yet,” said Michael Farris, founder and chairman of HSLDA. “We are taking this case to the Supreme Court because we firmly believe that this family deserves the freedom that this country was founded on. Despite Friday’s order, the Sixth Circuit’s opinion contains two clear errors: First, they wholly ignored Germany’s proclamation that a central reason for banning homeschooling is to suppress religious minorities. Second, the Sixth Circuit erred when it failed to address the claim that parental rights are so fundamental that no government can deny parents the right to choose an alternative to the public schools.”

The Romeike family faces thousands of dollars in fines and possible jail time if they return to Germany. HSLDA contends that this is grounds for a well-founded fear of persecution that would grant them asylum under U.S. law. The Justice Department, however, claims that the Romeikes are being punished under a generally applicable law, and the Sixth Circuit agreed".

~Respectfully Snipped From:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2013/201307150.asp



~Hi Familycare71! Were these all of the links you were looking for, or did you want some on the other cases I mentioned too? If so, just let me know and I'll be glad to get you what you need .

(Familycare71 quote)"I can't imagine they were granted asylum in the first place if there wasn't a threat beyond sending their children to school""(end quote)

~Yep. That original ruling says a whole lot about this case period and point blank, doesn't it.

(Familycare71 quote)"Yes I agree- the government needs to focus on all the illegal immigrants rather than this one family who was already approved to be here. No matter how one feels it should be dealt with it needs to be dealt with!" (end quote)

~...Yes, exactly! It's crazy...It just doesn't make any sense....to me anyway (shrugs).

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~With regard to the part of your post I bolded above, you've absolutely said a mouthful, if not all. Not only that, but you've hit on another very important point.....The reading between the lines thing, and that is an absolutely crucial thing to do nowdays.


~ETA~ ...Voted in the poll btw .

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I don't get the above statements. Do you mean that this case should be ignored because there are cases of illegal immigrants pending or there are illegals who haven't been dealt with in the system? Couldn't the government be doing both simultaneously (which I think they are)?

It is two different situations. There is a national debate, as well as in Congress about illegal immigrants and what to do about it, it has been going on forever it seems. As far as I know, there has been no conclusion yet but I'm not a news junkie anymore like I used to be so there could be some progress.

Then this Romeike case which is a case of asylum not of illegal immigrants. I don't get how the two are connected.

Laurel

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(Laurel quote)"Do you mean that this case should be ignored because there are cases of illegal immigrants pending or there are illegals who haven't been dealt with in the system?"(end quote)

~No.

(Laurel quote)"Couldn't the government be doing both simultaneously..?"(end quote)

~Yes.

(Laurel quote)"this Romeike case which is a case of asylum not of illegal immigrants(end quote)

~Yeah, that's why I didn't say too much about it as that's all I had to say.

(Laurel quote)"I don't get how the two are connected"(end quote)

~They may or may not be, but you're right....It isn't an issue here .

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That's great thank you!!!
I agree- there just has to be a threat if they were granted asylum originally-

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(Laurel quote)"Do you mean that this case should be ignored because there are cases of illegal immigrants pending or there are illegals who haven't been dealt with in the system?"(end quote)

~No.

(Laurel quote)"Couldn't the government be doing both simultaneously..?"(end quote)

~Yes.

(Laurel quote)"this Romeike case which is a case of asylum not of illegal immigrants(end quote)

~Yeah, that's why I didn't say too much about it as that's all I had to say.

(Laurel quote)"I don't get how the two are connected"(end quote)

~They may or may not be, but you're right....It isn't an issue here .

You guys are great at quotes! Me not so much!
I guess what I am saying is this family is here legally and for, IMO, a good just cause. I do not know of the funds going into fighting this asylum case that was already looked at and approved but I am sure there is better $ and manpower to be spent.
Someone did their jobs and approved asylum- it to me is a waste of funds and energy by the government as a whole.
Yes- I think it would be better for the $ and manpower to be used to deal with people who are here illegally. But you are correct- they are essentially two diff issues - sorry if I muddied the waters

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You guys are great at quotes! Me not so much!
I guess what I am saying is this family is here legally and for, IMO, a good just cause. I do not know of the funds going into fighting this asylum case that was already looked at and approved but I am sure there is better $ and manpower to be spent.
Someone did their jobs and approved asylum- it to me is a waste of funds and energy by the government as a whole.
Yes- I think it would be better for the $ and manpower to be used to deal with people who are here illegally. But you are correct- they are essentially two diff issues - sorry if I muddied the waters[/quote]

Below is from one of the articles I referenced earlier in this thread. Below is the excerpt and the article you can find it in.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3283575.html

"An immigration judge in Tennessee granted the Romeikes’ bid in 2010, but the Board of Immigration Appeals tossed that ruling in 2012, arguing that religious home-schoolers don’t face any special consequences that aren’t applied to other families whose children don’t attend school."

I think you are saying that the money wasn't well spent because you felt the original judge was correct in his decision. But appeals are part of our system. If one and only one judge's decision was enough to produce justice then why have our system with appeals? Our system doesn't always get it right no matter how high of a court you go to but there is more chance to be fair with appeals. It takes money but to me the money is worth it. Just saying....

I'm not good at quoting, I just got lucky! I can quote partial ones but not multiple ones.

To do a partial one you just hit quote and then go into the message and erase the parts you are not referencing. I hope that makes sense.

Laurel

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See I screwed up that quote. I didn't get your part in the blue box! Lol!

Laurel

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Pushing this back up.

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~Hey FamilyCare! I hope you are well today! ...Just to let you know, because you said something about the quotes, that first quote, in the box, in your post that says "originally posted by sleepinghart"(it doesn't show up here in my post, but it does in your post #33 above*), that's not my quote-- I think it's Laurels-- My post/quote starts up under that blue box with the blue & black lettering. It's no problem whatsoever, I just wanted to make sure you knew that it was not me making that comment to you just in case there was any confusion.

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~It's no problem about the quotes. So, this is not directed at my answer as quoted then? ..And about getting the quotes in the blue box like you just said in another post earlier, it's not just you, it's doing it to some of mine too like this one. I keep going back to look at what mistake I may have made, because there are usually a couple of things like beginning to type inside the "[/quote]" that causes this, but I can't find one. I believe Michael fixed my last one that went awry.

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I did get confused!! But it's a pretty easy walk for me! . Thanks for the clarification!
I am doing pretty well. Hope you are too!!

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Score another point for socialism.....just one more example of how the Obama administration believes we as people are too stupid to govern ourselves and our own families.

I never knew public education was forced upon families in Germany. Shame those in power here are so supportive of such oppression when the very foundation of our country has and should always be FREEDOM.

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You are correct about the [/quote] needing to be at the end of a quote but you also need a [quote=Laurel;384514] for the beginning of the quote in order for it to work.

Hope that makes sense.....

I made the example blue simply as a reference. Also, whomever you are quoting is the user name that appears within the brackets.

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But, but, this case has nothing to do with Obama. The family was granted asylum and then lost asylum based on appeals. I don't think that they should have ever been granted asylum in the first place - as they don't even meet the legal criteria. This case is not about homeschooling in the US. I think if someone wants to make a case for homeschooling or school vouchers then they need to find another "poster child."
If I recall correctly the article Laurel posted pointed out that the family can go to any other nation in the EU that allows homeschooling to live. It certainly would be much closer to their home/family then the US.
I imagine the majority of Germans are happy with the system that they have voted in place and probably wonder why the Americans have to stick their noses in yet another countries business

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Laurel

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I completely disagree that granting a family who feels they're being oppressed asylum has anything to do with the US sticking it's nose in anyone else's business. The old adage, "if you don't like it, leave." That's all they were trying to do. The US wasn't trying to change another country. They weren't telling anyone what to do. They simply granted freedom to a family who.wanted to raise their children their own way. That's been done for how long now?? Save for the Native Americans it's exactly how we ALL got here.

Syria is sticking the US nose is. This most definitely is NOT, at least no more than it's sticking our nose in Mexico's business as we grant asylum and citizenship to the millions of Mexicans who come here illegally is.


Eta...who are we to judge why they chose the US over another country in the EU?? Is it really any of our business if it's easier for them to stay over there or come here?? I'm sure they had their reasons just as anyone that immigrated here did.

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This case is really not about homeschooling. It's about religion. I knew that the minute I saw that HSLDA was involved. The Roimekes chose to break the mandatory education law and said that it was religious persecution when the government enforced the law. That was the reason they were granted asylum in the first place.
Now, I am a die-hard homeschooler and a religious person, but I think this is ridiculous. I understand the family's concerns. I would not be happy about some of those things, either. But, if a religious American parent illegally keeps their child out of school because they do not like their child being taught evolution or other things that do not match their personal belief system, then they will have to face the consequences of breaking the law. Why should it be any different for a German family?

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It is our business because they have made it so by going though our judicial system so they can stay. They had options that wouldn't have cost tax payers a cent. The bottom line is we have laws about what merits asylum, and a judge has ruled they don't meet those. If they wanted to immigrate they could have applied (and probably would have been approved) to enter the country without all this brouhaha. They *chose* to make it political. This type of thing can cause international incidents (Elian Gonzalez comes to mind) though I doubt in this case the Germans want them back.

The main point is at the end of the day this isn't about homeschooling in the US. I'm sure there are probably many American families who are getting screwed over by homeschooling or voucher laws who would make a better "face" for the need for reforms.

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I don't understand.....

There are loads of Amish who live all around me. None of them attend public or private school. They gather at a single school house, all ages together, and go until they are either married off or it's decided they need to start working. Most don't go beyond the age of 13/14 and I know for a fact there are no government imposed standards being met.

I'm curious how that is any different than what the Roimeke family was seeking.

I wasn't aware there was an "illegal" way to homeschool your children when religious beliefs are involved.

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Maybe the US isn't, but HSLDA is. They have been fighting with Germany's homeschooling laws for years. There are other cases of people refusing to obey the law and subsequently having their children removed listed on the HSLDA international website. Remember, these are the lawyers that are representing the Roimeke's case. They are trying to set a precedence that if the US recognizes homeschooling as a religious/human rights issue, then German laws will have to change regarding education.

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Yes there is a legal and illegal way to homeschool. If I did not fill out the appropriate paperwork for the state, then my children would be considered truant, can be removed from my care on the basis of educational neglect, and I can face jail time. This happened in my town last year to one woman. Only in her case, she wasn't homeschooling, she just was to high to take her kids to school. But, she cannot say that she kept them out of school for religious reasons and then "poof" the charges are gone. The children were truant under legal definition.
Each state has it's own requirements of homeschoolers. Some are as easy as filling out an intent form, others require quarterly portfolios and mandate annual testing. It just depends where you live.

If the Amish are meeting in a school house and are being educated, then in a sense, they are in a private school. Under California State Law, my children are in a private school being held in my house.

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I did!

Because it is a "pool" of money that is given to ANY parent who wants it (not income based); sort of a lottery system.

So, rich parents who want to send their children to private schools (or religious schools where teachers are not expected to be certified), who are savvy enough to know to get on the list; can send their children to private school on the government's dollar, while the public schools get less and less funding.

Milwaukee is an area where that is a particular issue. It means less and less money to the inner-city schools that need it most, while the rich people can send their children to private schools.

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/school_vouchers.htm

In WI, anyone can get in the voucher-lotto. There is no income test. I am not sure how other state's handle it.

I think competition amongst schools would be great. Like any "customer service", competition should make schools aspire to be better. However, if you take away their funding, and they are continually having to cut positions, courses, and programs, they can't realistically compete.

I also believe that we should put more money into education and raise standards for teachers in return. Well-paid teachers with master's degrees and more control in their own classrooms (ala' Finland), and smaller class sizes, please. I'm not talking about standardization. Get rid of "no child left behind" and "race to the top". Get highly educated teachers and let them do their job.

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I just happen to read this article this morning about Wisconsin's school voucher system....

"If you look closely, you can see the social fabric of America beginning to unravel. Private school vouchers permit us to fear one another, to surround ourselves with those who look and think like we do, and — in so doing — to abandon our commitment to pluralism and diversity.

The whole voucher agenda has been exposed for the scam it really is."

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/opinion...#ixzz2dx7rSFkI

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Weird thing is, that seems to be the German and Sweden's justification for banning homeschooling. I am pro homeschooling, but against school vouchers as they are set up here in WI. In my little world, vouchers would be fine; as long as private school teachers met the same standards as public school teachers, and possibly there would be an income limit for getting them.

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Fine, I was the other 'No' on vouchers vote.

I didn't come forward sooner as I didn't really want to get into a long discussion and have to look up and cite references, etc. but I spent a lot of the weekend doing it anyway so why not?

My reasons are the same as Heidi's but I also have another reason. I feel this is a violation of Church/State issues and I personally feel it SHOULD be unconstitutional.

My weekend research told me that vouchers were used in Columbus, Ohio and other places. It went to the Supreme Court of the U.S. in the Columbus case and they ruled it was not a violation of church/state although I very much disagree. Their reasoning was that they gave the money directly to the parents rather than to the schools so it was not the government supporting religion. (Give me a break Supreme Court! )

I learned a lot more but generally there was also a big abuse of the system in some places where it was tried. All kinds of things like students who were already in private schools using it to supplement their tuition (50% of the recipients in one case), people starting 'schools' that were substandard just to collect the money from students, etc.

Btw, I found out that in my own state it is going on now (Florida). I had no idea but then my kids have kids so I'm not school saavy anymore.

Here is a link from the NEA that doesn't support it either for various reasons.

http://www.nea.org/home/19267.htm

http://www.nea.org/home/16970.htm

Laurel

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~To Blackcat31: ..I had forgotten about this, and I apologize for being a bit OT, but with regard to the quotes and quoting- thank you, thank you, thank you so much! ...Reckon where the '[QUOTE=Laurels' & such are going, lol? ~Once again, thank you...Big help!

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