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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>How Far Do You Go to Help Families with Home Issues?
SnowGirl 08:26 AM 01-15-2016
DKF has a really hectic home life: two professors, one running his own business on the side, the other doing post doctorate studies. They have a teenage son who doesn't drive but has a lot of after school activities that the parents drive him to/pick him up.

Their little children, in my care, are 2.5 and 6 mo. 2.5 yo especially is struggling from the lack of structure: she regularly goes to bed between 10-midnight and wakes up at 5:00 am on most mornings. 6 mo is starting to get to that age where she is affected by this stuff, and so she's also starting to struggle to sleep. They are happy and sweet in my care, and they nap very well 85% of the time. This issue isn't really something that affects me and my daycare, therefore (luckily, the girls just have a happy disposition that this lack of sleep really doesn't affect their mood).

HOWEVER, lately 2.5 year old has become increasingly dependent on parents all night long. The other night she woke up 5 times, and was doing the typical stuff to avoid sleep: asking for milk, asking to play, crying and screaming. Parents typically give in to that. 2.5 yo has fallen asleep during morning snack twice in the last couple of weeks (since the new semester started for the parents), and once fell asleep on the toilet (thankfully I still sit with her in the bathroom so I caught her before she fell). It's obviously spiraling downhill...

The parents and two little girls sleep in one room, the teenager has the other room (2 bedroom townhome). It's a very difficult situation for everyone.

Yesterday, DCD asked me for advice on sleep training. I'm happy to help them...but I feel like they'd have to make A LOT of adjustments in their approach to 2.5 year old, and possibly move her to a separate sleeping space while she learns to sleep through the night (so she isn't constantly waking up baby sister, as she does now). I don't know if I should simply recommend books and they can take it from there, or if I should sit down and talk to them about how sleep training looks (they really don't know a lot about it).

The spectrum ranges from, like I said, recommending resources, to full on helping them write down their plan and adjust their life. WWYD?
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Blackcat31 08:37 AM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by SnowGirl:
DKF has a really hectic home life: two professors, one running his own business on the side, the other doing post doctorate studies. They have a teenage son who doesn't drive but has a lot of after school activities that the parents drive him to/pick him up.

Their little children, in my care, are 2.5 and 6 mo. 2.5 yo especially is struggling from the lack of structure: she regularly goes to bed between 10-midnight and wakes up at 5:00 am on most mornings. 6 mo is starting to get to that age where she is affected by this stuff, and so she's also starting to struggle to sleep. They are happy and sweet in my care, and they nap very well 85% of the time. This issue isn't really something that affects me and my daycare, therefore (luckily, the girls just have a happy disposition that this lack of sleep really doesn't affect their mood).

HOWEVER, lately 2.5 year old has become increasingly dependent on parents all night long. The other night she woke up 5 times, and was doing the typical stuff to avoid sleep: asking for milk, asking to play, crying and screaming. Parents typically give in to that. 2.5 yo has fallen asleep during morning snack twice in the last couple of weeks (since the new semester started for the parents), and once fell asleep on the toilet (thankfully I still sit with her in the bathroom so I caught her before she fell). It's obviously spiraling downhill...

The parents and two little girls sleep in one room, the teenager has the other room (2 bedroom townhome). It's a very difficult situation for everyone.

Yesterday, DCD asked me for advice on sleep training. I'm happy to help them...but I feel like they'd have to make A LOT of adjustments in their approach to 2.5 year old, and possibly move her to a separate sleeping space while she learns to sleep through the night (so she isn't constantly waking up baby sister, as she does now). I don't know if I should simply recommend books and they can take it from there, or if I should sit down and talk to them about how sleep training looks (they really don't know a lot about it).

The spectrum ranges from, like I said, recommending resources, to full on helping them write down their plan and adjust their life. WWYD?
I recommend resources and books but that is all. I have enough going on when the kids are here that I do NOT want to have to weigh in or discuss the hours a child is at home too. Sorry NOT my watch, NOT my problem.

Also most parents ask for advice but rarely follow it and then the provider is all the while growing more frustrated because like the DCK's you told them what to do but they arent actually doing it...kwim?

So, I would suggest resources for where they can find tips, tricks and helpful ideas to assist them in figuring it out but thats as far as I would go.
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Thriftylady 08:40 AM 01-15-2016
I would also recommend resources and books. Honestly, it doesn't sound like their lives are conducive to young children. What I would want to tell them, would be they need to change their lifestyles to suit the needs of their children and perhaps get a bigger place to live (as college professors they should be able to afford it). They wouldn't want to hear that though.
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Annalee 08:57 AM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I recommend resources and books but that is all. I have enough going on when the kids are here that I do NOT want to have to weigh in or discuss the hours a child is at home too. Sorry NOT my watch, NOT my problem.

Also most parents ask for advice but rarely follow it and then the provider is all the while growing more frustrated because like the DCK's you told them what to do but they arent actually doing it...kwim?

So, I would suggest resources for where they can find tips, tricks and helpful ideas to assist them in figuring it out but thats as far as I would go.

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Cat Herder 09:06 AM 01-15-2016
I would offer to put little one's down for a nap immediately after drop-off to help with the falling asleep during morning snack and potty time.

Being educators far beyond my pay grade, they would understand typical child development exponentially beyond my grasp.

I would recognize their requests as temporary guilt discussions and let them know that this stage won't last forever. Their hard work is an amazing accomplishment and everything will look much brighter upon summer. That I had their back.

** Not that I just went through this with a client last month or anything... Spoiler alert: The entire drama-mentary self resolved upon the parents graduation and subsequent landing of "the dream job".
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Unregistered 09:43 AM 01-15-2016
I love what cat herder said. And I add in response to pp that I would never recommend they get a bigger place. That is pretty presumptuous.
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Ariana 09:50 AM 01-15-2016
Tell them to go to this website www.babysleepsite.com and get a personalized plan for their family. This is what I did with both of my kids. I recommend it to everyone who wants my sleep advice. There are lots of free resources on there as well but their plans are amazing and they work within a week depending on the issue. With my first we had zero clue how to sleep train and with my second we needed help with her dependence on the carrier (since I wore her 24/7 while running a daycare!).

I also recommend the book The Sleep Easy Solution.

Then they are on their own. Parents rarely follow through on advice and are just too lazy or too tired or whatever to keep sleep training up for the time it requires. This is why it will only frustrate you to put forth the effort to try and help them. Let the above professionals help them, they might listen if there is $$ involved. Parents like these are focused on one thing: themselves
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kendallina 10:17 AM 01-15-2016
Many of my parents are professors as well and I've found them to be very open to discussing these things and making some changes when they ask for help. Sometimes they really just have no idea what kids need. I'd probably print off a chart about how much sleep their kids should be getting. And talk about how sleep begets sleep. They may be less likely to wake at night if they're well rested. And, yeh, they need to stop responding to their older ones requests, but not sure I'd mention that or not, depending on where the conversation led.

Educated parents like professors will want their children to do well in school and once these kids get to school they're going to struggle if they can't even stay awake. I would lead with that.

Then I would suggest some resources. Probably don't suggest that the kids sleep in another room, sounds like they don't have the space and if these parents are at the beginning of their professional career, they don't make much money and likely have lots of debt. My DH is an academic, I know.
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mommyneedsadayoff 10:23 AM 01-15-2016
It sounds like the kid is waking up at night so they can get attention from the parents that they may not be getting during the day. They need to spend time with their kids. Active time in the evening where they can focus on their kids and wear them out. Then they need a strong routine, every night, before going to bed. Waking up at 5 am is so early for anyone, so they need to be in bed by 8 or 9 at the latest. Of course, you can tell them as much advice as you want, but they actually have to follow through with it to work and in most cases, they don't.
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kendallina 11:03 AM 01-15-2016
So are the kids not getting to bed until 10pm or midnight because the parents don't get home until then? Or does a parent pick them up from you at a reasonable time?
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Thriftylady 11:12 AM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I love what cat herder said. And I add in response to pp that I would never recommend they get a bigger place. That is pretty presumptuous.
I said I wouldn't tell them to, but think it. OP said they the kids are using the two bedrooms, where are the parents sleeping in a two bedroom place? It sounds like from the post things may be chaotic at night at home, if they are I can't imagine anyone sleeping well.
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laundrymom 12:19 PM 01-15-2016
I would suggest a bigger place or mom and dad in the living room. W baby and two bigger kids getting bedrooms. And using the word NO. It's ok to tell a child no. Even if the only reason they are waking up is because they miss mom and dad. Maybe they could rearrange their schedule for one parent to have a schedule more conducive to getting them on a schedule?
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SnowGirl 12:28 PM 01-15-2016
All their personal circumstances notwithstanding...I think I feel good just giving them resources and letting them take it from there .

Ariana, those are my two sources as well! I used both when teaching my own daughter (once a terrible sleeper, now amazing!) how to sleep! I will recommend those.

I am completely supportive of this family, and feel for them terribly. Despite their impressive education, they are not well off at all. They were hit hard by the recession and teaching at their Alma Mater is a brand new gig and a way for them to make ends meet while they try to get their careers back. They are both scientists, not at all educated in childhood development, but rather geo-physics and cancer research . Their professorships are actually part-time.

Anyway - they are a wonderful family. The parents obviously care very much for their babies. They have been with me since August and never once had an early drop off or late pick up. The baby has been sick once and the parents kept her home for three days (never tried dropping her off). They aren't dumpers, or anything.

2.5 yo is going to bed so late due to fighting sleep. They try to put her down at 7 and she fights it for hours.

Very unfortunately (and I didn't share about yesterday because I really thought it was a one time thing), but 2.5 year old is on day 2 of refusing nap and screaming so loudly that no one else can sleep, no matter what I do.

I texted mom and dad and asked if one of them can come get her. I haven't heard back and that was 5 minutes ago. I might need to send her home, with emergency contacts or not. She's belligerent and no one can sleep.
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SnowGirl 12:45 PM 01-15-2016
They're on their way now. Since this is the only DCF here today, I might sit down with them when they get here and talk a little about how I'm on their team, and really want to work with them to get this girl (and this family) the sleep they need. I spoke with DCM on the phone just now and she *sounds* very serious about how they need to step up and figure this out.

I won't feel like I'm wasting my time, because this *is* my business hours still
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SnowGirl 12:52 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I would also recommend resources and books. Honestly, it doesn't sound like their lives are conducive to young children. What I would want to tell them, would be they need to change their lifestyles to suit the needs of their children and perhaps get a bigger place to live (as college professors they should be able to afford it). They wouldn't want to hear that though.
Even though they can't afford a new place (I know this personal fact about them...), they *do* have an unfinished basement that they planned on making into the living space for their son before they got laid off (both in one year got laid off - super hard on them).

I was thinking that if I were a teenager, I totally wouldn't mind an area rug, room dividers, and tapestries in an unfinished basement and calling that my room. Way preferable to living across the hall from my parents and baby sisters

Don't know if it'd be too high-handed of me to suggest it to them, though. I think it's not my business at all.
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SnowGirl 12:53 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by kendallina:
So are the kids not getting to bed until 10pm or midnight because the parents don't get home until then? Or does a parent pick them up from you at a reasonable time?
They always pick up at or before 5:30. They started trying to put her down at 7:00, but she fights it for hours. That's the reason for her late bedtime.

If the son has a thing that keeps them out until late, one parent will stay home with the girls. The only exception was a football banquet last semester, but that was well before the sleep issues really started.
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SnowGirl 12:56 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
It sounds like the kid is waking up at night so they can get attention from the parents that they may not be getting during the day. They need to spend time with their kids. Active time in the evening where they can focus on their kids and wear them out. Then they need a strong routine, every night, before going to bed. Waking up at 5 am is so early for anyone, so they need to be in bed by 8 or 9 at the latest. Of course, you can tell them as much advice as you want, but they actually have to follow through with it to work and in most cases, they don't.
I agree with everything you said. I will mention it to them today (if they're receptive to sitting down and discussing it - which I do believe they will be).

She CAN sleep in until 7:00 (they don't get here until 7:40, and they live on the same street as I do). The problem is mom and dad have to get up at 5:00, so she wants to get up with them.
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SnowGirl 12:59 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I said I wouldn't tell them to, but think it. OP said they the kids are using the two bedrooms, where are the parents sleeping in a two bedroom place? It sounds like from the post things may be chaotic at night at home, if they are I can't imagine anyone sleeping well.
Sorry for the confusion:

Their home is two bedroom (with an unfinished basement they had planned on finishing before they got laid off last year). The parents and the two little girls sleep in the master suite, and the teenager sleeps in the other room. As far as I know, they don't have any other closed off rooms, just a kitchen, living room, and dining room. I haven't seen their place...just guessing. I live in the same neighborhood and it was built by one developer, so I have a decent idea of their layout
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SnowGirl 01:00 PM 01-15-2016
Originally Posted by Cat Herder:
I would offer to put little one's down for a nap immediately after drop-off to help with the falling asleep during morning snack and potty time.

Being educators far beyond my pay grade, they would understand typical child development exponentially beyond my grasp.

I would recognize their requests as temporary guilt discussions and let them know that this stage won't last forever. Their hard work is an amazing accomplishment and everything will look much brighter upon summer. That I had their back.

** Not that I just went through this with a client last month or anything... Spoiler alert: The entire drama-mentary self resolved upon the parents graduation and subsequent landing of "the dream job".
Thank you for the encouragement to stay positive and on their team. I really do love this family and believe in them...I think they really need a wake up call (or a go to sleep call, really)
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SnowGirl 01:10 PM 01-15-2016
I'm sorry everyone...I'm new to this forum and just discovered the multi-quote feature in another thread I'm participating in. I will definitely NOT post a billion responses to everyone in separate posts from now on!
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SnowGirl 07:54 AM 01-16-2016
So, mom and dad were brainstorming on the way to my house what could be affecting their daughter's sleep so much.

They came to the conclusion that they're not doing enough as parents to stimulate her, and she needs more activities. I hinted that, yes, she really wants to spend a lot of time with her parents and that more activities with them will certainly go a long way.

What they're actually thinking is that she probably needs to be in a more preschool/academic program with many children so she can socialize more (here she only socializes with baby sister, my 2 year old daughter, and another 5 year old DCG). They want to load her up on academics and activities and they think that will help her sleep at night.

*sigh* I feel like, at this point, I just have to let them try what they think will work for them. I wish they'd speak to an expert and get the real answers (that they simply need to do what they must to give their daughter routine and teach her to sleep properly). I personally don't feel like MORE stimulation and MORE activities will do this girl any favors until she's getting proper sleep...but I just don't want to put myself out there that much.

They said that if they send her to preschool, they'd still want to keep DCG baby with me. Fine by me...I'm not the type of daycare that focuses on rigorous academics, but rather social skills and kindness. I don't intend to change my program now...

At this point I feel like more of a mom who has a differing opinion on parenting styles from this family. Not my business!
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MunchkinWrangler 08:19 AM 01-16-2016
Originally Posted by SnowGirl:
So, mom and dad were brainstorming on the way to my house what could be affecting their daughter's sleep so much.

They came to the conclusion that they're not doing enough as parents to stimulate her, and she needs more activities. I hinted that, yes, she really wants to spend a lot of time with her parents and that more activities with them will certainly go a long way.

What they're actually thinking is that she probably needs to be in a more preschool/academic program with many children so she can socialize more (here she only socializes with baby sister, my 2 year old daughter, and another 5 year old DCG). They want to load her up on academics and activities and they think that will help her sleep at night.

*sigh* I feel like, at this point, I just have to let them try what they think will work for them. I wish they'd speak to an expert and get the real answers (that they simply need to do what they must to give their daughter routine and teach her to sleep properly). I personally don't feel like MORE stimulation and MORE activities will do this girl any favors until she's getting proper sleep...but I just don't want to put myself out there that much.

They said that if they send her to preschool, they'd still want to keep DCG baby with me. Fine by me...I'm not the type of daycare that focuses on rigorous academics, but rather social skills and kindness. I don't intend to change my program now...

At this point I feel like more of a mom who has a differing opinion on parenting styles from this family. Not my business!
That must be tough to have her pulled from you daycare. I personally believe that the reason DCG is like this is classic sleep deprivation. I'm a believer in good sleep habits lead to more sleep at bedtime. She is showing the classic signs of being overtired. She is at the age of fighting sleep but she is clearly exhausted and that's an uncomfortable feeling for everyone. Sounds like they're coming to the conclusion of wearing her out even more, which in turn she might sleep but could possibly leave to some behavior issues. I wish them the best in their decision. But a 2 year old doesn't need academics yet.
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mommyneedsadayoff 08:31 AM 01-16-2016
Originally Posted by SnowGirl:
So, mom and dad were brainstorming on the way to my house what could be affecting their daughter's sleep so much.

They came to the conclusion that they're not doing enough as parents to stimulate her, and she needs more activities. I hinted that, yes, she really wants to spend a lot of time with her parents and that more activities with them will certainly go a long way.

What they're actually thinking is that she probably needs to be in a more preschool/academic program with many children so she can socialize more (here she only socializes with baby sister, my 2 year old daughter, and another 5 year old DCG). They want to load her up on academics and activities and they think that will help her sleep at night.

*sigh* I feel like, at this point, I just have to let them try what they think will work for them. I wish they'd speak to an expert and get the real answers (that they simply need to do what they must to give their daughter routine and teach her to sleep properly). I personally don't feel like MORE stimulation and MORE activities will do this girl any favors until she's getting proper sleep...but I just don't want to put myself out there that much.

They said that if they send her to preschool, they'd still want to keep DCG baby with me. Fine by me...I'm not the type of daycare that focuses on rigorous academics, but rather social skills and kindness. I don't intend to change my program now...

At this point I feel like more of a mom who has a differing opinion on parenting styles from this family. Not my business!
Aww that stinks Changing her to a whole new place will probably just lead to bigger issues and more vulnerability, which in turn, will lead to her waking up more in my opinion. They say they need to spend more time stimulating her, but what they mean is, they will move her and pay someone ELSE to stimulate her and if she can barely stay awake at your house, I imagine she is going to have an even tougher time at a busy center environment. They are pulling a classic parenting move. Rather than do the work themselves, they are passing the buck and plannign to just work dcg into the point of pure exhaustion, which will definitely end up not working. And the sad thing is, dcg will probably act up through bad behavior and then get punished or disciplined, when the reason for the bad behavior is that her parents are not setting her up for success. It's not her fault, but they will make it her fault Sort of like taking your starving child out to do a bunch of errands and expecting them to be a perfect little angel. Not much you can do about it, so it is best to let them figure it out the hard way.
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SnowGirl 07:21 PM 01-17-2016
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
if she can barely stay awake at your house, I imagine she is going to have an even tougher time at a busy center environment.
I'm worried about this, too. For her sake.

Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler:
Sounds like they're coming to the conclusion of wearing her out even more, which in turn she might sleep but could possibly leave to some behavior issues. I wish them the best in their decision. But a 2 year old doesn't need academics yet.
I'm afraid this is what they're after, as well. Even if they did find a stellar preschool program, she will derive no benefit if she's receiving 5-8 hours of interrupted sleep in a 24 hour period. Adults can hardly handle being productive on so little. I'm sitting down with DCPs tomorrow morning to go over a sleep plan, and hope that improving her sleep (if they stick to it) will set her up for success whatever they decide to do with daytime care.

My maternity leave is in April and I'll take four weeks off. Right now, their plan is to find a preschool program for her and trial it during that time. If they love the program and it improves her behavior, they will keep her in it and bring DCBaby back to me. If it fails and the preschool program doesn't improve anything/makes it worse, both girls will come back to me. I'm not saying I HOPE she fails...but I can guarantee that if they don't work with me to fix her sleep now, they will be disappointed in this plan of action. For her sake, I hope we can come together and teach her healthy sleep patterns. If I lose her to preschool, I won't mourn too much. I'll have a newborn, my daughter, and their baby...I don't need too much more of a workload at this time
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Ariana 08:14 AM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by SnowGirl:
So, mom and dad were brainstorming on the way to my house what could be affecting their daughter's sleep so much.

They came to the conclusion that they're not doing enough as parents to stimulate her, and she needs more activities. I hinted that, yes, she really wants to spend a lot of time with her parents and that more activities with them will certainly go a long way.

What they're actually thinking is that she probably needs to be in a more preschool/academic program with many children so she can socialize more (here she only socializes with baby sister, my 2 year old daughter, and another 5 year old DCG). They want to load her up on academics and activities and they think that will help her sleep at night.

*sigh* I feel like, at this point, I just have to let them try what they think will work for them. I wish they'd speak to an expert and get the real answers (that they simply need to do what they must to give their daughter routine and teach her to sleep properly). I personally don't feel like MORE stimulation and MORE activities will do this girl any favors until she's getting proper sleep...but I just don't want to put myself out there that much.

They said that if they send her to preschool, they'd still want to keep DCG baby with me. Fine by me...I'm not the type of daycare that focuses on rigorous academics, but rather social skills and kindness. I don't intend to change my program now...

At this point I feel like more of a mom who has a differing opinion on parenting styles from this family. Not my business!
It's because THIS is so much easier FOR THEM than having to sleep train. Lets blame it on anything but the way we parent because I can't possibly be parenting wrong I am working on my PhD for crying out loud. I am brilliant! I know I am coming across as judgmental but parents who have tons of kids while pursuing higher education and their children are having all sorts of problems with sleep are not good parents. They are self involved parents. Just prepare yourself for lots of pushback on your sleep plan.
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SnowGirl 11:33 AM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
It's because THIS is so much easier FOR THEM than having to sleep train. Lets blame it on anything but the way we parent because I can't possibly be parenting wrong I am working on my PhD for crying out loud. I am brilliant! I know I am coming across as judgmental but parents who have tons of kids while pursuing higher education and their children are having all sorts of problems with sleep are not good parents. They are self involved parents. Just prepare yourself for lots of pushback on your sleep plan.
I met with them this morning before they left for work. We sat down and discussed the daycare schedule and how they should follow it at home on the weekends. DCM was completely on board, DCD was like 75%. I don't know if he was tired or what, but he seemed less than his usual friendly self.

Despite the research they read and the expert opinions in books and on the NSF website, they're convinced that her deficiency is in activities and not consistency. I listened to their explanation and nodded, but was firm in my stance that we must be consistent with bedtime EVERY DAY, and expectations as to what is allowed (no getting up at 2:00 am and doing puzzles!! This actually happened last week at DCG's request...DCD got up with her at 2 in the morning to let her do puzzles?!). DCM was very firm that she wanted to work with the schedule, and I hope DCD is on board too.

DCD seemed concerned that I would call them again to get DCG if she refused her nap again. I assured them that this was a health concern (major sleep deprivation) that needed to be addressed, and not a pattern they should expect (refusal to nap = being sent home). But, if I am concerned for her health and safety (falling asleep during play time, on the toilet, at snack time, but refusing a nap), I will be addressing it again.

I don't want to be too strict, I certainly don't want DCG to think refusing naps = early pick up (which is why I wouldn't normally make it a habit), but I don't want DCPs to think they can skirt around this major issue by dropping of a highly dysfunctional toddler with me.

I'm remaining optimistic though...despite your warnings. Hoping I don't have to eat crow later.
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daycare 11:47 AM 01-18-2016
Brings married to an Asian man, I find this common in their culture that kids don't have good bedtime routines and I find the same with families of this culture in my care.

My rule is that as soon as they become too tired to participate they go home.

I only allow napping during nap time. I don't take kids under 18 months.

If they fall asleep at the table it falls under in able to participate.
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SnowGirl 11:52 AM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by daycare:
Brings married to an Asian man, I find this common in their culture that kids don't have good bedtime routines and I find the same with families of this culture in my care.

My rule is that as soon as they become too tired to participate they go home.

I only allow napping during nap time. I don't take kids under 18 months.

If they fall asleep at the table it falls under in able to participate.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sends home for this reason! I felt like I was being mean (I'm relatively new to the daycare business).

And that's so interesting you bring up culture...this family is from West Asia/Middle East! I hope they don't think I'm stepping on their culture..I'm just trying to look out for their child!
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MunchkinWrangler 12:01 PM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by SnowGirl:
I met with them this morning before they left for work. We sat down and discussed the daycare schedule and how they should follow it at home on the weekends. DCM was completely on board, DCD was like 75%. I don't know if he was tired or what, but he seemed less than his usual friendly self.

Despite the research they read and the expert opinions in books and on the NSF website, they're convinced that her deficiency is in activities and not consistency. I listened to their explanation and nodded, but was firm in my stance that we must be consistent with bedtime EVERY DAY, and expectations as to what is allowed (no getting up at 2:00 am and doing puzzles!! This actually happened last week at DCG's request...DCD got up with her at 2 in the morning to let her do puzzles?!). DCM was very firm that she wanted to work with the schedule, and I hope DCD is on board too.

DCD seemed concerned that I would call them again to get DCG if she refused her nap again. I assured them that this was a health concern (major sleep deprivation) that needed to be addressed, and not a pattern they should expect (refusal to nap = being sent home). But, if I am concerned for her health and safety (falling asleep during play time, on the toilet, at snack time, but refusing a nap), I will be addressing it again.

I don't want to be too strict, I certainly don't want DCG to think refusing naps = early pick up (which is why I wouldn't normally make it a habit), but I don't want DCPs to think they can skirt around this major issue by dropping of a highly dysfunctional toddler with me.

I'm remaining optimistic though...despite your warnings. Hoping I don't have to eat crow later.
GAH! Puzzles at 2 AM?!?!? Wow!!! Because she wanted to? There's the problem among others. In my house bedtime is 8:30 PM to 7 AM that means, if my son wakes up between those hours, guess what, it's bedtime...go to bed. There is no leaving the bed. You don't have to sleep but you have to stay in bed. No cry parenting at it's best. They definitely need to sleep train but probably don't want to put the effort into it. Stick to your guns, you have her best interests at heart.
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Unregistered 03:30 PM 01-18-2016
I have a chart with sleep needs. I'd give that to the parents. This is extreme sleep depravation! At her age she needs about 11/12 hrs. at night and a good nap. She sounds like she is overtired and is waking up at night. Maybe wakes up to see her parents too. I'd put her back to bed too when she arrived.
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Unregistered 03:32 PM 01-18-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I have a chart with sleep needs. I'd give that to the parents. This is extreme sleep depravation! At her age she needs about 11/12 hrs. at night and a good nap. She sounds like she is overtired and is waking up at night. Maybe wakes up to see her parents too. I'd put her back to bed too when she arrived.
Ooooops, sorry about the spelling typo! Deprivation! Hate typos!
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