Would you terminate a five year old boy that argues with everything. Can't figure out why he can't jump on the couch, or why he shouldn't get in the kids faces. Everything I SEE him do he lies and says he didn't do it. He constantly says he is going to call the cops on me when I follow through with a consequence to his actions. I'm exhausted.

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How long have you had the child in your care?? And have you talked with mom about his behavior at daycare?

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Going on five weeks. She basically says that he is the same with her. But since he is an only hold I feel like he gets away with everything he does at home. One day she apologetically told me she really appreciates me. From conversations I think he has had quite a few daycare providers. This is the same boy that is very handsy with my one year old. Then when I do separate him or make him miss out on an activity he says I am making him sit for no reason.

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He is also is always touching sticking his tongue out at other children or grabbing things from them. And again will say he didn't do it when I see him doing it. Yesterday we were on bikes and he purposely kept running into the other kids. He's not overtly mean, but it seems he's not happy unless he is irritating the hell out of someone.

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Pick up the phone and fake-call the cops yourself. Tell "them" lol that your dck is lying to you and bothering the other kids. Tell him bothering the other kids is illegal and since he is so quick to want to call the cops for having to have a consequence, you'll be happy to call them FOR him and tell them the truth of what's going on. Then act as if the cop on the other line is giving him "one last chance to shape up" (So what I did was "Really? I don't want to give him one last chance. He doesn't want to behave and so I think really we should just have you come over" ) Then the kid is "I'll behave" and had no other problems with the particular child I did it on. A week later we ran into a cop at a school (He was there for a pre-k program---I TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS). He gave the kids stickers and I said "Wait, IDK if they've behaved enough. can you tell them what bad behavior gets them?" And I let him talk. Worked like a charm. LOL Never got threatened with calling cops again from those kids!

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Bye-Bye kid. If you can afford it, it's not worth the stress.

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unless the mom is willing to start giving out huge consequences for behavior at home, I would terminate. If mom is willing to work with you, I would set it up as if he misbehaves he gets no evening privileges, dinner, bath, bed. If he is ok then normal privileges. She can sweeten the pot by if he is excellent he gets an extra privilege- stay up an extra 10 min, play a game with her, an extra story.. not a boughten treat but an extra with mom. A few days/ weeks of this and he should comply. I would if possible, I know this kid is your biggest pain right now but come up with little special things for him to do. "Sam, can you sit here and cut these strips of paper into squares for me for our craft. " (then let everyone glue them to a piece of paper) "Sam, can you help me by holding the door for the others" "Sam, Amy dropped her toy can you pick it up and put it in the sink for me." If he feels that helping is good he may calm down for you. Just redirecting him to play may not be enough. I would make up several baskets of busy work and rotate him at the table. Then when you go outside be sure to run the daylights out of him!! "Sam, your such a big boy! How many times can you run around the outside of the yard? Sam, can you run get that ball for me. How far do you think I can throw it.. oops that wasn't very good, can you get it for me again so I can retry"
I would not pretend call the cops because I never set them up as the bad guys. Police officers are our friends, they keep us safe. That is what I would probably explain to him. We don't threaten people with calling the police, they are busy working to help people that really need it. If you have a police friend you could have him stop by and do a visit with the kids.

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I did this once with my daughter when she was little. She kept trying to undo her car seat and I told her it was illegal (which was true) and that the cops would stop us and take us to jail. Then about a week later we were eating at a restaurant and there were three local cops at a booth. My daughter started crying saying they had come to get her for trying to unbuckle. I went with it. Explained it to one of the cops, and they had a mini lecture on how important it was to be safe in a car seat. She never messed with the car seat again.

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Are my expectations too much for a five year old? I have four kids of my own, as well as four daycare kids. I've never met a kid this age who thinks he should be able to so whatever he wants. Which is another thing he constantly says 'my mom lets me do whatever I want' or 'my grandma never punishes me'. I of course said 'you know asking you not to throw the rice is not punishing you'

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no your not expecting too much the other adults are expecting too little which is why mom needs to step up!!!

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No, your expectations are not too much. Actually they may not be enough. But you can't be the only one trying to change the behavior. With that said, my kids here know the rules and follow them. If they don't, they get consequences. However, at home, they run wild. Kids are smart. They understand rules can be different in different places.

While its ideal to get mom on board at home, it's not always possible to do that. But that doesn't mean you don't get on board with him yourself.

I think it's a cop out to say because a kid gets away with everything at home, they can't mind at daycare.

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He once again gave me the run down on how all four of his last sitters were better than me.... Ugggh. Five o'clock get here soon!

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My question is what are you doing about it when he is verbally inappropriate??

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Well today for instance he had to miss out on a movie during rest time since he keeps arguing with me.

I feel like I am getting sucked into arguing with him which is why I've tried to cut way back on giving him multiple chances. In general I can deal with kids not following the rules (meaning it doesn't stress me out). But it's more so that he will argue with me on anything he is doing wrong and won't admit that he has even done anything or broken a rule. Like today he kept covering his ears and ignoring me when I was talking to him.

I'm open to all suggestions!

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Also he has gotten into trouble for telling other kids not to listen to me when I am asking them to do something. What do you do when a kid would literally be spending all day in time out, or missing out on any activity?

I asked him today (he's actually sleeping) what happens when his mom asks him not to do things. He said he is very sneaky and does it when she isn't looking....

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I do t think you're expecting too much either. He obviously understands and I think he acts like a much older kid than a 5 yo. I believe 5yo are old enough to understand and listen and comply much better than what he is. My first dck was a 5yo boy and he was great. He knew better and listened to everything he was told.
He probably gets away with everything with mom and she just lets its be, there is no way I would ever allow my child to act like that.
If she is really willing to work with you on his behavior, I'd say try to work it out for a while, if she isn't really helping with his behavior then I'd term. There is no reason any provider should have to put up with a difficult child if the parent is not going to help you out to make it easier for you, you have other children to attend to daily all day, you simply can not give her child all the attention just bc he wants to be difficult and defiant.

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What should I say to his mom in terms of 'things need to get better or he has to go!'?

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I have a behavioral intervention plan with my 5yo dcb. He sounds much like yours. He is VERY VERY frustrating. I go over the rules about once an hour or more. If he breaks a rule, I tell him which rule he broke, and he sits. No 2, 3, + chances here. if he breaks the rule again, he loses it for the day. I also have a sticker chart for him, any and all positive behavior gets a sticker on his chart and if he earns 5 by nap, he gets to watch a movie. He has yet to do that (in 2 weeks) and I reward for EVERYTHING, even saying please! It is obvious for me that dcm is a pushover, and there are absolutely no rules or consequences at home. Yesterday at pickup he had a meltdown and was kicking her and threw his shoes outside, she was just trying to reward him into the car "There is a soda and candy in the car for you!" GRRRR!!!

Mine is JUST for the summer, so I am just sticking it out, and miraculously his spot has been filled for Sept (since Mom didn't give me a definite yes, I 'filled' it)

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Mine is just for the summer too. I did have a talk with mom. I'm going to try a lot more positive reinforcement and told mom the constant arguing has to stop. I'll try some your ideas as well.... Might take a while to fill that chart up though.

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Tell mom he needs to follow school rules so you need him to start now. I would suggest they follow through on what ever home rules they have. at 5 he can understand you can jump on moms couch but not at school.. When he says Mom does not make him you say. We follow school rules here and I am in charge.
If you can find out what kind of behavior plan they use at the school he will attend use it. our kids start on green ready to learn then go up yellow orange red is the best or down blue purple pink ( call parents) each color has a phrase TO GO WITH IT The nice thing is even if they go down for a bad choice they can still go up for a good choice.

red gets a special treat like a treasure or taking your shoes off in class.

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I have a 4 year old DCB that always says "But, I can do that at my house!" Now, I have had him in my care since he was 8 months old, so he knows the rules here. I simply say " and where are you?" He replies "at miss Lora's house, and we don't do that here." lol, we go through this at least twice a week.

Children this age DO know that there are different rules in different places. Your expectations are not too high for him, Mom's sound like they are too low IMHO.

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Exactly! My nephew was like this - I had him in my daycare from 2-4 yo. I finally got my sis to term herself. If she wouldn't have I would have had to term them myself. She let him be the "man" of the house, and make most/all of the decisions for the family (just him and her). He is a really good kid, but had really bad behaviors. They went to a center, then he started Kindy. From what I hear he had the same problems he had here at both places. But then she got engaged and then married and he is a MUCH nicer boy. Mom started letting hubby make the decisions instead of son.

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term him because I had that "sneaky" kid. He decided one day when I wasn't looking to convince the other 2 kids (one being my niece) to go outside and hide from me.

I asked if he did this at home and he did it all the time. the mom was useless. All she would say is that he's a good kid. Because I later found out that even his family didn't want to watch him

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