Dcd picks up his son today. Dcb's step mom told dcd that he had a tantrum this morning and dcd decided to reprimand his son in my home at pick up. It was the most uncomfortable situation I have ever witnessed. After dcd was done speaking with his son he told me that dcb may come "half dressed" some days bc dcb is not getting ready quick enough in the morning.
I find both dcd and step mom to be horrible parents and definitely have my suspicions that they are abusing this little boy but I have no proof, nothing but a feeling. Dcb is scared of them, won't talk Infront of them. Child protective services have been called on this family twice since in my care for neglect and have found nothing. Older SA brother had a teacher that called in when they heard kids were left home alone and when he was dropped off before school opened unsupervised. Cps dropped both inquiries. I look and ask for anything I can report on but have never had any proof of abuse or neglect.
Now, if dcb shows up here tomorrow with no shoes or no pants or shirt can I call Cps for neglect?

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You can call cps if you suspect abuse. Which you do.

Also, in Texas, no one can use any form of punishment that includes spanking, withholding food, excessive time outs, degradation or humiliation on my property. This includes the parents.

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Parents say he steals food. I didn't understand and questioned. They said he can have anything he wants but needs to ask and he takes food without asking. I find the wording "steals food" and odd way to phrase that but they say they are not withholding food.
Dcb says when he is in trouble he is sent straight to bed after his dinner which is often. When I ask parents they say by the time he gets home and finally has dinner its his bed time.
I see the fear he is in when he is around them. I see how he eats like he hasn't been fed in days here. I see how they talk about him. But they have an explanation for everything and dcb goes all.g with their story. I was hoping this may be the evidence Cps has been looking for.

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How old is he?

Is his mom in the picture?

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I am sorry you had to see that

I would definitely call CPS. What alarms me most is that the child is scared of his parents. If nothing else, this seems like emotional abuse. Definite authoritarian parenting style with all of the punishments that seemed to be dished out and this can very easily turn into abuse.

Do you know if CPS ever questioned the older sibling at school?

Good luck with everything.

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Five. I have watched his half sister (newborn different mom same dad) since January. Started watching dcb a few weeks ago. His mother lost custody of all her kids by different fathers. She has visitation but rarely takes them. When she does she sends boys to a babysitter. Step mom seems to truely dislike them but will tell you she loves them like her own. Doesn't say much bc her own seem to have their own problems.
I feel so bad for this boy. Cps has been called before so I feel like if I call with no proof it will end same way....no help for dcb.

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Older sibling is 7 and autistic. Don't know if he was questioned and if so what info they would get. I have straight out asked dcb many times if he is hit. He always says no.

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The stress of having an autistic child can contribute to why the parents are behaving the way they do but is no excuse. I hate to think how they are treating the autistic boy.

The child denying being hit means nothing (like you already know). The parents may be telling him to lie or telling him what they are doing is not hitting. Abuse can take other forms as well. I know you already know all of this.

Calling can help, because if CPS keeps seeing reports made by different adults they will have to make note of it and take it into consideration. If you do end up calling please make sure you mention about the child being hungry and how he is disciplined for taking food without permission.

It is great how much you care for this boy.

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I have never dealt with Cps before. I assume when I call the parents will know it was me who has called. I don't worry about missing out on the money, but I am worried about the reprucutions. Dcd scares me. I know I am an adult and should be but he is very odd and scary. He is military so I also believe he would have a firearm carry. Don't mean to sound dramatic but I have a house full of kids to keep safe.

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You do not sound dramatic at all, and I totally understand why you would be worried. I would be worried too

I think you could ask CPS to keep you anonymous, but I am not 100% sure if they can do that for mandated reporters. Maybe another provider would know if this was possible? I know it varies state by state, but I know in many states the mandated reporters identity can be given to social workers, police, lawyers, etc. So the parent may very well find out.

Hopefully someone else here will have more info or experience with this. Again, I am so sorry you have to go through this, it must be very difficult.

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I would be willing to bet mom not having custody has a lot to do with his behaviors. Trauma can result in food and fear issues, it can certainly appear as if dad is over reacting and controlling, unfortunately that level of line drawing can make the difference between a child overcoming a tumultuous early childhood or not.

Several of my foster kiddos had food issues for example. I did have to keep all food under lock and key for a few and outsiders hearing that may have assumed I was being abusive in doing so when actually it was advised by their behaviorists and psychiatrists. If anyone had asked at any point, even after they'd just eaten a huge meal, they'd have told them they were starving and hadn't eaten in days. If I didn't restrict like that they'd have gorged themselves to the point of vomiting or even worse. It's typically the result of deprivation. Would be nice if undoing those patterns was as easy as offering unrestricted access but it's rarely if ever that easy.

I think bringing a child half dressed at that age is likely overkill, and it's not feasible to keep him that way throughout the day so what's the point you know? You might want to ask dad what he expects the long term result will be. My guess is he hasn't thought that far ahead about it.

Same for sending him to bed without dinner if there are already food issues present.

While he may seem really strict, what you write reads more like a parent who lacks tools to cope with childhood blips. Odds are he's not a jerk, just overwhelmed and dare I say, SCARED, which is why he's got such a tight grip on the reins right now.

I realize he intimidates you, but would you maybe feel comfortable talking to him about more effective ways to discipline?

I do think if he were being physically abused you'd see evidence of that. As far as mental abuse goes it's an incredibly tough thing to prove and parents are given an unbelievably wide berth as far as what's acceptable in the eyes of the law.

I'd never tell someone not to call cps, but from what you describe I don't think there's anything they'd be able to do even if they agreed with your gut feeling. It's so tough because when it comes to kids and parental rights over them proof literally is everything.


I feel for you regardless. Suspecting any child is being hurt is enough to make you sick inside.....

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How old is the child? If the child is say 4 and refusing to get dressed I would find it better to take the child without shoes on, maybe even still in jammies as long as we are not talking underware only. believe me if it happens 1x that child will get dress quickly and I doubt it will not happen again That is much better than the parent forcing the clothes on the child.

Not abuse

sending a child 10 minutes early to bed without dessert not abuse

sounds like some poor parenting possibly or maybe a stressed family but I would not call those examples abuse.

oH I have locks on my fridge and food cabinets to keep dgs out of the food. He would empty them if I did not and he is three. We are not talking about getting a piece of cheese or a cookie. How about all the eggs broken in a bowl.. or all the cheese with one bite out of it... I do not think locking up the food is abuse either.

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Dcd told me that if dcb comes without shoes, he can't go out for the day and then he will learn his lesson. He does not plan on sending him half dressed so he can continue getting dressed once here. Whatever article of clothing is missed is left at home.
I was stunned by dcd's anger towards the boy and the show he put on in my home. He wasn't asking for a response from me and I didn't give one out of shock. I can turn them away at my door when he comes without pants or shoes bc I need to take all the children outside and dcb would be unable to do so.
My suspicions come from hearing dcd in the background screaming like a mad man while I am on the phone with DCM. The fact that dcb wears long sleeve shirts even when its 75 degrees and he is sweating but refuses to take layer off to wear shorrt sleeve shirt he has underneath. The fact that in the past few weeks dcb is a playful talkative kid here but does not say one word when dcd is here.

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That's scary.

Like I said before, its against licensing rules for anyone to degrade or humiliate as a punishment on my property.

I personally would call.

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I agree that locking the fridge and such sometimes is necessary and not abuse. What I am concerned with is how hungry the child appears to be.

As I mentioned, it sounds like dad is using an authoritarian parenting style which sometimes can turn to abuse when the parent is angry, which it seems the parent is. Also the fact that there was 2 previous CPS complaints in the past not by the provider.

If the child was not hungry, there were no previous CPS complaints, and Dad did not come off as very angry I would say it was just a strict parent. It just seems to be more going on, you know what I mean?

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showing up not ready for the day??? not abuse But I would turn them away if the child does not have shoes pants ect.... not be allowed to play... um no sorry I will not leave a child inside alone. NOR will I dish out punishment for something that happened at home.

Inappropriate clothing. You need to remove the shirt and see WHY the child is wearing long sleeves. If any bruises then yes call CPS right then and there. They will come see while the child is still at your house if they can.

If the child is sweating and could become overheated then you must insist the child remove the extra shirt.

Just because CPS is called does not mean the children will be removed. It would be they help the family with some parenting classes or maybe even some respite care for the Autistic one. Loud is one thing bruises and threating is something different.

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Thank you for adding this! CPS taking children away is the last resort, other services are provided first.

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This is why I hesitate calling. The parents have laughed at the talks CPS has had with them. They learned nothing, nothing has changed, they have only become more sneaky.

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I'm going to say "NO" and here's why. Have you ever tried "Love & Logic?"

I went through the class 4x (each year to meet licensing class hours) and in the class, they use natural consequences. Example that was used most frequently (and tweaked here and there):

Child is told he has 10 minutes to finish getting ready.
Child decides he doesn't want to; throws a fit
You hand him his jacket, child doesn't want to wear it. He throws it on the floor. He also decided he wasn't going to get ready after all and is still in PJ's.

SO, parent lets kid get on bus with shoes, clothes, jacket and backpack. The parent calls the school and informs them their child didn't want to do as he was told and therefore would not be properly dressed, but was no worse for the wear. It's not that the parent NEGLECTED the child, but that they were not going to let the child miss the bus because he didn't want to behave himself. Instead, his consequence was that he was cold (of course, he didn't want to put on his jacket), he was the only one not dressed for school and he had to walk on the sidewalk with just socks (which was also cold). The natural consequences of the child's actions was punishment for him. BTW: Said child was dressed, jacketed and shoed on the way home; no one told him to do it; he just decided he wanted to do it (Gosh, maybe he likes warmth).

My point of the story? That just because a child isn't fully dressed doesn't mean it's abuse. (He SHOULD have the clothes in a bag and the kid can get ready himself) The parents even TOLD YOU that he wouldn't be dressed fully every time because he wasn't doing as he was told. So this, IMO is not "abuse/neglect" rather than it is discipline.

FYI: I had parents drop off in PJ's before and bring changes of clothes. It's not a biggie.

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You're focusing too much on the clothes thing. Op had numerous other reasons for her concern with involving cps.

I have kids come all of the time in pjs with a change of clothes. That's not abuse and no one said it was.

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The taking food w.o permission is not a good thing to say is "abuse". My son is a sneak. He can eat all day, and then still want more more more. He will go into the kitchen and try to sneak snacks. One day, he did that, and I didn't catch him that time---until AFTER he went into anaphylaxis because he took a peanut bar. He was NEVER allergic to peanuts before, so it wasn't unsual to have a peanut bar in the kitchen, but that day he could have died. My kids are NOT allowed to take food w/o asking for this reason> I need to know WHEN and WHAT they are eating for 2 reasons: #1 the situation I just posted and #2 Even though they are older, I do not want them eating alone; they could choke. It is imperative that they do not sneak food. That said, THEY ARE ALWAYS HUNGRY. They are like garbage disposals and if I let them, they would eat all day long and never stop. They are not hungry because they're not being fed. They are hungry because they are growing kids. I'd proceed with caution before assuming this is abusive.

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I was responding to her LAST question "Now, if dcb shows up here tomorrow with no shoes or no pants or shirt can I call Cps for neglect" .


If she has true suspicions of abuse, him not showing up fully dressed 2m should not be the reason for her call. If she's truly concerned, she should be calling NOW, because to me, with the last question, it seemed as though SHE were focusing on the clothes.

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I am a preschool teacher and as Childcare providers, we have an obligation to report any suspected or witnessed abuse, yes even I'd you just suspect. There are hotlines in which abuse and/or suspected abuse can be reported, I'm not sure what state you're in. We are protected by the law even if our suspicions are wrong, if a child in our care is being abused and we do not report it and were aware of it or suspicious, we could be held liable for not reporting it. So my best advice would be to report it, the child's safety is what is of utmost importance. Also, these guidelines apply to neglect as well. Hope this helped.

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I have many children sent to me in their Pj's with clothing in a bag for one reason or another. This is different. It's to humiliate the child.
I have children here that would eat cookies and ice cream all day long if they could so I keep snacks up high out of reach. This is different. Dcb ate so much the first day here he threw up. After that I have him wait inbetween helpings for more. One day I used the restroom during lunch and when I came back into my kitchen dcb was collecting the scapes on the floor that had fallen from the other children as they were eating. I can see a toddler mindlessly eating a found cheerio off the floor but I find it sad that a five year old boy would be so hungry that he would resort to that.
Dcd has some serious anger issues. Like I said, I am an adult and I am scared of him.
Dcm locked dcb out of the house and car the other day while leaving him in their parking lot to show him lesson. Maybe they parent differently than what I am used to but there are red flags everyday. Dcd told me yesterday that his boys are going to live with their mom who lost custody after my care ends with dcb in a few weeks. I am going to call CPS and have them check in on this boy. He needs to be looked after.

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Then read the rest of the thread to get the rest of the story.

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Hun, I think you should call.

Doesn't matter if the parents continually laugh at the talks they get from CPS. Each and every call that comes in is added to their case.

Sometimes it takes a lot of calls before anything happens.

It you "feel" or suspect abuse, as a mandated reporter it IS your obligation to call.

I have been in situations where I just wasn't sure before but a tiny little feeling told me to call anyways.

A couple times it was nothing (no harm-no foul) and another time, it was so much worse and so much deeper than I could ever imagine....I was glad I called.

You probably aren't ever going to know the outcome or all the facts but besides being obligated as a mandated reporter, it is simply the right thing to do. If you suspect....just call.

CPS can sort out the rest.

HUGS for dealing...It IS hard.

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Seems like a very strict family that doesn't have a lot of flexibility to me, it makes even more sense now that you say he is military..he's probably used to promoting action through fear.. I myself have told my children that if you take something without asking it is stealing.. even food..they are not allowed in the kitchen whenever they want,
but nevertheless, you are the one in the midst of it so you should follow ur gut and report if you feel necessary

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