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Unregistered 01:40 PM 05-24-2012
Im registered but decided to post this signed out. I have a little girl who just turned four that has always been a handful but has recently become even worse. She has always been wild and I've always had to watch her closely but nothing I felt like I couldnt handle. Recently after a trip to grandmas she came back and has started throwing the worst tantrums. She will scream when she wants something, throw toys if she doesn't get her way. She refuses to sit down for time out. I have to physically pick her up and move her and then she will slowly move around the room.

She is the only one I have these issues with and honestly I don't know what to do anymore. She has fits about three times a day. I talk to her parents about it and they "ground" her, but I see no difference in her behavior here. Today, she started to get upset about something and threw a toy, I tried to put her in time out and she just started screaming at all the kids, telling them not to look at her and she doesn't like them. So I moved her into the kitchen where she couldn't see the children. She started kicking anything she could reach and told me she was tired so I told her if she was really tired she could lay in her cot. She did, but she just kept screaming and crying and then throwing her pillow and blanket. So, I decided that was enough and I called her dad, which I have never done before. I told him I would like him to come pick her up and I'm sure he could hear her screaming on the phone. He did come by and get her.

I feel bad because I love this family. They really are great and so is this little girl when she's not throwing her tantrums. My husband was home today and he thinks I should term them. When she is not here my days are much calmer... But I don't think I want to term. But I'm not sure what to do.... I can handle crying but I will not tolerate her throwing toys and kicking our things... Any advice?
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SunshineMama 02:01 PM 05-24-2012
At least at my house, when my husband tells me to term I know it's bad. He's all about keeping all the kids and working as hard as possible and not losing the income. When I get the green light from him I do it- he has been right every time.

If you can't get the behavior under control in a few weeks (maybe have a probationary period) then it'ss notice time.

In the meantime: Try talking to the child and asking what's wrong. Are they getting enough sleep at your home and their own? Any major changes going on at home? Ask her why she does those things and let her know it is unacceptable.

When my daughter acts up (almost 4), it is usually for attention. I have told her, instead of being naughty, to come to me and ask for some love when she needs attention. So now she will come over, say "I need some love," and I will give her big hugs and kisses and she's fine. Maybe your dcg just needs a little extra right now.
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Heidi 02:10 PM 05-24-2012
This is completely new behavior?


I have tried everything for a year to get my dcb (now 5) AND his sister (3 1/2) to stop similar behavior. Now, their younger twin brothers are starting as well. DCB is about 65 lbs, so on those occasions we couldn't move away from him and I had to move HIM away, it was physically painful. For him, getting him to a spot was the challenge. With the sister, she won't stay put.

I finally termed them on Tuesday because I am just plain out of ideas!

If they were my own kids, I'd take them to their room, walk out, and shut the door (I think...because none of my 4 threw tantrums). You can't really do that with dck's.
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Blackcat31 02:22 PM 05-24-2012
I think you were right to call dad to pick up. I try not to ever go there unless REALLY necessary and it sounds like it was totally necessary.

I think that sometimes you have to give the issue back to the parent. I wouldn't call on a regular basis but it was probably good for the dad to see how out of control their child has become. This is always a hard thing since you don't want to send the message that she will be "rewarded" (being picked up) for her bad behavior but yet you shouldn't have to deal with a child of her age being so out of control.

I am sure that it has a lot to do with frustration and impulse control on the dcg's behalf as she has been catered extensively to by her grandmother and often times learning to behave in one way at one place and another way at another place is difficult for children.

The dcg's parents should try to find a way to help their child develop some coping skills and ways to manage her anger as having an all out tantrum like you described at her age is sooo not cool. I would be concerned about the fact that she could possbly endanger the other children and/or herself if she is so consumed by anger. I would also be concerned about you as well since you physically had to move her as she was not complying with your requests to stay in time out.

I think it is time to have a good discussion with the parents and see if you can't find a way to solve this issue before she (dcg) does hurt someone. I think whatever they are doing now (grounding) is not working so they definitely need to try something else.

In the mean time, hang in there and good luck. I have a child who was extrmemely angry and ultimately did have to term but not until I tried everything I could to work with the child and the parents.
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Ariana 02:28 PM 05-24-2012
I see a child who seems to be crying out for some attention and is being met with hositility. Putting a child in a time out for a tantrum in this situation doesn't sit right with me. Have you tried talking with her when she's not in tantrum mode about what's bothering her? I feel as though she is seeking a connection to someone by acting like this, especially if it is new behavior. Time outs teach absolutely nothing IMO. Perhaps teaching her how to handle her frustration instead would help? I definately think she's old enough to have a chat with and come up with new ways to voice her frustration and anger. There are also some really good books out there. One I have is called "When Sophie gets Angry". Maybe you could do a circle time about ways to deal with anger and let her know that everyone gets angry now and then. Also make sure that when you're dealing with this that you yourself are not angry as this can escalate the problem.

Good luck
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MizzCheryl 02:35 PM 05-24-2012
If You love the family and you do not want to term, and if you are open to some new ideas I would contact Nanny de. She has helped me alot. She understands children and their behaviors and she knows how to fix it too.
The child will thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://daycarewhisperer.com/

It doesn't cost that much and you get your moneys worth!
You can PM me if ya wanna talk about it.

She could help you turn this behavior around.
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JaydensMommy 03:20 PM 05-24-2012
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I see a child who seems to be crying out for some attention and is being met with hositility. Putting a child in a time out for a tantrum in this situation doesn't sit right with me. Have you tried talking with her when she's not in tantrum mode about what's bothering her? I feel as though she is seeking a connection to someone by acting like this, especially if it is new behavior. Time outs teach absolutely nothing IMO. Perhaps teaching her how to handle her frustration instead would help? I definately think she's old enough to have a chat with and come up with new ways to voice her frustration and anger. There are also some really good books out there. One I have is called "When Sophie gets Angry". Maybe you could do a circle time about ways to deal with anger and let her know that everyone gets angry now and then. Also make sure that when you're dealing with this that you yourself are not angry as this can escalate the problem.

Good luck
By time out I mean that she needs to sit and stop the screaming. She does not have to sit for a certain amount of time, just until she is able to play without screaming at the kids. I don't think that she would ever purposely hurt any of the children. She throws the toys because she is upset but not at the kids.

I have tried talking to her and asking her what's wrong. She usually just turns the other way and continues her tantrum or will tell me she wanted that toy. Today she told me she was tired, so I allowed her to lay down. Her parents are very nice people and they seem to be very involved and spend time with her in the afternoons. As far as I know she does have a regular bedtime.

I really did not want to call dad, but she was completely out of control and yes her dad was able to witness it. I don't think calling him was any kind of victory to her because she didn't want to go home when he came. She ran from him screaming and he had to chase after her...

She used to have small fits but would sit and calm down quickly. Now they have gotten longer and much more extreme. I will look into some books and have another talk with her parents..
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countrymom 07:17 AM 05-25-2012
I'm mean. I don't reason with children. You want to scream and yell, well you can sit in the corner ( or mat ) till you can behave. She is manipulating you and the parents, its so easy to see. She's not frustrated, its easy for her to scream then to ask nicely. I always remove the child from the situation, the other children should not have to witness this nonesense. And grounding a 4 yr old is a joke. They don't get that concept yet. I wouldn't term yet. You need to have a cut off date (like 3 weeks) and you and parents develop a plan of action to fix her problem. If it doesn't work, then look into terming them.
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Willow 08:20 AM 05-25-2012
First thing that came to mind is what on earth happened at grandmas house?

Is this simply the result of a grandma's spoiling run amok or something completely opposite.....I sincerely hope something bad didn't happen to her there that's causing her to act out the way she is. Jumping from being a mere handful to being completely out of control isn't normal. I'd want to know the why's behind it.


I'm so glad to hear you're not interested in terminating, at least until you try to sort this out.
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jen2651 01:20 PM 05-25-2012
Is this every day? You said she has them about 3 times a day - what times? I am sure there are lots of children who have issues such as these that have other reasons behind it, but my ds and 2 of my dcks react VERY strongly when they consume red 40. It sounds very similar to this. They would be remorseful afterwards but were absolutely unable to regain their mental (and physical) control. AGain, I know some will think I am blaming lack of rules, poor parenting etc on a food issue or think I am taking the easy way out, but I swear....

My son's preschool teacher contacted me one day to ask what was going on at home as he had been extremely unfocused at school...sure enough, red 40 in his yogurt (strawberry, off brand). I can honestly time how long it will take for it to start taking over my kids brains...one little boy ate a strawberry poptart on the way to my house every morning (6:30 arrival time). Every morning at 8:45 he would lose it.

It seems our son is more affected in the am than in the pm but it does take a few days for him to return to 'normal'. The immediate affects of his consumption are obvious but his coping skills still remain marred until it is completely gone. My one dcb (4) returned home from his grandmas for the weekend and he told me he couldn't get his brain to stop beeping.

So, take it or leave it, but I would consider asking her parents for a week to go red 40 free...my kiddos are like brand new babies!
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onebusybee 02:17 AM 05-27-2012
Does the child have speech problems? I know you mentioned about yelling at the other DCK, but sometimes speech problems can lead to aggressive behavior.
I saw some good suggestions! How about:
Holding the child and hugging them until they calmed down-I've tried it and it worked!
Speaking calmly, get down on their level, and tell them that when they can talk to you the right way then you will pay attention to them. Stand firm and ignore until they can calmly speak with you.
Start taking things they enjoy away. Nothing that helps with development, but more of a treat like tv.
Help child find another outlet besides yelling. Maybe have a certain stuffed animal for them to hold or yell at lol.
Help child to just plain out say I AM MAD! instead of yelling uncontrollably.
Good luck!
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Countrygal 05:42 AM 05-27-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
First thing that came to mind is what on earth happened at grandmas house?

Is this simply the result of a grandma's spoiling run amok or something completely opposite.....I sincerely hope something bad didn't happen to her there that's causing her to act out the way she is. Jumping from being a mere handful to being completely out of control isn't normal. I'd want to know the why's behind it.


I'm so glad to hear you're not interested in terminating, at least until you try to sort this out.
My thoughts exactly. If this is totally new behavior, my thought would be that something traumatic happened at Grandma's. Maybe not, but it certainly is something worth considering for her parents.

Around here sexual abuse is quite common. It is something I am always keeping in mind. I certainly wouldn't accuse, but I always have it in the back of my mind. It could be anyone, not necessarily a parent or gp.

A dramatic change in behavior would make me consider all the options. Just my thoughts.
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Tags:bad behavior, four year old, tantrums
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