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  #1  
Old 04-08-2010, 07:52 AM
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Question Children With NO Vaccinations!

So, I just added an infant (8 months) to my daycare. The parents informed me that they are refusing the shots due to their beliefs so I just told them I needed a doctors note stating that. I don't know much about this... but if a baby doesn't get it's shots that are reccommended does that mean they can get sick easily or make me or the other children sick more easily. I myself do not have a spleen (the organ that helps fight off infections) so would it effect me? Sorry if this is a stupid question. But I've been sick this week since she started (probably a coincidence) but still..
Thanks!
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:15 AM
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I am not able to take in children to do not get their vaccinations...You may want to look into it for your state, but we HAVE to have shot records.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:19 AM
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No, a child without immunizations would not make you more sick in general but is at greater risk of coming down with measles, small pox, polio, diptheria, etc if they should be exposed.

What will happen if my child doesn't get these shots?

Basically, one of two things could happen:

1.If your child goes through life without ever being exposed to any of these diseases, nothing would happen.



2.If your child were exposed to any of these diseases, there is a good chance he would get the disease. What happens then depends on the child and the disease. The child could get mildly ill and have to stay inside for a few days. He could get very sick and have to go to the hospital. At the very worst, he could die. In addition, he could also spread the disease to other children and adults who are not immune. If there were enough unprotected people in your community, the result could be an epidemic, with many people getting sick and some dying.
What are my child's chances of being exposed to these diseases?

It's hard to say. Some of these diseases are very rare in the U.S. today, so the chances of exposure are small. Others are still fairly common. Some are rare in the U.S. but common elsewhere in the world. Don't assume your child is completely safe from these diseases, even the rare ones. For instance, a child in the United States has only a tiny chance of catching diphtheria. But several years ago a boy in California did catch diphtheria and he died. He was the only child in his class who hadn't been vaccinated.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...y=21429&page=2
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:26 AM
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They just sign a waiver and turn that in in the shot records place. Every state has one waiver or another the can sign. Medical waiver (doc must sign that one), Religious, or Philosophical waivers just signed by the parents. It depends on your state which ones are okay to accept and which ones aren't. Here's a link to a site showing each states allowable waivers. (I don't know how often it's updated, so double check the info of course)
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...uirements.aspx
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:36 AM
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I just noticed you have your state listed. Kansas accepts medical and religious waivers.
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...ts/kansas.aspx
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpa0627 View Post
So, I just added an infant (8 months) to my daycare. The parents informed me that they are refusing the shots due to their beliefs so I just told them I needed a doctors note stating that. I don't know much about this... but if a baby doesn't get it's shots that are reccommended does that mean they can get sick easily or make me or the other children sick more easily. I myself do not have a spleen (the organ that helps fight off infections) so would it effect me? Sorry if this is a stupid question. But I've been sick this week since she started (probably a coincidence) but still..
Thanks!
The child without the vaccines would be at more risk than you would be. If you and the other children in your care are vaccinated and the vaccines work like they are supposed to work then there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

All my current families happen to be vaccinated I haven't decided where I stand on the issue - I guess I will cross that bridge when I get to it. For those of you who refuse children based on their choice not to vaccinate, be sure that you DO NOT tell them that this is the reason they are being refused/ terminated.

I've started asking during the interview whether their shots are current. I don't do pets or smokers so I also ask them in the interview whether they have either. Sometimes, I don't even have to ask! Those are the worst.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:28 PM
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Due to their beliefs I believe that any state should be able to accept what is called a personal beliefs affidavit. I live in CA and for us it's right on the back of our blue immunization record that we are required to keep in the child's file. It pretty much says "I request exemption on the child named from the vaccination assessment requirement for school/child care entry because this procedure is contrary to my beliefs"

If i child isn't immunized and you have been then you shouldn't worry that you might get sick. The concern should be in the unvaccinated child getting a communicable disease.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
Due to their beliefs I believe that any state should be able to accept what is called a personal beliefs affidavit. I live in CA and for us it's right on the back of our blue immunization record that we are required to keep in the child's file. It pretty much says "I request exemption on the child named from the vaccination assessment requirement for school/child care entry because this procedure is contrary to my beliefs"
California is different though. It's one of the states that can accept a philosophical objection to non-vaxing. It's easier there. Kansas can not accept those though, so this family would have to file a religious (or medical) waiver instead.

kpa0627, are you licensed/registered with your state? They should have this info in your regs, I think.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:01 PM
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In my state (WA) parents can also sign a waiver.

I "require" all parents to sign one of the waivers. Here's why. I tell them that I want their child vaccinated, I believe in them, my children received them.

However, I am responsible for tracking and reminding parents to make sure they are up to date. Plllluuueasssse. I am not the parent. If a parent got them on time, but simply forgot to tell me, and my licensor checked that file. Bingo. I get written up. Written up as in my permanent record. Then they make a note to check records again in a few months. Same thing. Then I have a "record" of not having my records up to date. That can result in a fine. $75 per incident. Again, plllueaseeel.

So it's not an option here. Sign the waiver. Every parent does it when I tell them what happens if they arent' up to date.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by grandmom View Post

I "require" all parents to sign one of the waivers.
You know what, I think this is a very good idea and I think I'll adopt this from now on. I think it's way too hard for me to keep up all of the kids immunizations. Why should it be our responsibility to keep track? I heard that it's even required in some states for the care provider to remind parent's to stay up to date and the provider gets fined if they don't do it on time.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:30 PM
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MarinaVanessa,

That's exactly what happens in my state. I can get fined $75 per record not up to date. That's why it's my policy.

I'm sorry, I'm not the parent.

My licensor questioned me the first time she saw all the waivers - they ask for 5 child files. All 5 had waivers signed. Then she just moved on to the next line on her checklist when I told her why.

The state can't require immunizations. They only require the form is in the file and filled out.

Last edited by Michael; 04-10-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:19 PM
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Which is why I thought it was an absolutely brilliant idea. I already got extra copies of the immunization records and I'll be having them sign it at drop-off or pick-up. It would make things sooo much easier.
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2010, 09:06 PM
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I find accepting a child with no immunization shots a bit risky. So I find the procedure of requiring parents to sign the waiver a good idea.
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:05 PM
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IMHO, immunizations or no shouldn't be an issue. If one completely believes that the immunizations will do what they are supposed to do, then your child or the other children in your home would be covered. I started out immunizing my two older kids completely, and my third child ended up having severe reactions to his and ended up losing milestones and we were afraid that he was autistic, and in fact was tested on the spectrum. We started doing our research, pros and cons of immunizations, and have decided to not immunize ANY of us further. We have all the proper documents, and practice many natural things to keep ourselves healthy. Swine flu, RSV, stomach flus have all run rampant in our schools this year, and yet my kids remain healthy. I have complete confidence in what I am doing to keep my family healthy. So, from personal experience, no, it doesn't make the child sick more often, actually in our homes, it has made us healthier! So just make sure you have the waiver form signed and in place.
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmom View Post
MarinaVanessa,

That's exactly what happens in my state. I can get fined $75 per record not up to date. That's why it's my policy.

I'm sorry, I'm not the parent.

My licensor questioned me the first time she saw all the waivers - they ask for 5 child files. All 5 had waivers signed. Then she just moved on to the next line on her checklist when I told her why.

The state can't require immunizations. They only require the form is in the file and filled out.
Do you happen to have a copy of the waiver you put in each file? That would be great to have a general one to have parents sign.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sahm2three View Post
Do you happen to have a copy of the waiver you put in each file? That would be great to have a general one to have parents sign.
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immu...nts/pm286b.pdf

It's on page two
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:34 PM
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California is different though. It's one of the states that can accept a philosophical objection to non-vaxing. It's easier there. Kansas can not accept those though, so this family would have to file a religious (or medical) waiver instead.
Thats what a personal beliefs affidavit is. It's a waiver that parents can sign that says that because of their beliefs whether for religious reasons or medical (meaning that you don't want to risk your child having an allergic or other reaction to it) they are refusing to have their children vaccinated.

I refused a polio vaccination for my child because it was a new mix and the nurse couldn't even explain to me what the mix was. The only reason that I found out was because I asked what was in it. I went somewhere else where I could get the polio vaccine that had nothing else in it. You have to be careful and make sure that the vaccines aren't a concoction of things that your child may not need or are in the experimental process. Sometimes these concoction vaccines are in the testing steps only and they don't have to tell you that they're experimenting on your child, it's up to you to ask.
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default Children with no Vaccinations

Children with no Vaccinations should be kept away from Babies who have had the polio Vaccination. The feces from the baby who has been vaccinated with the live polio vaccine will excrete it in his/her feces and can give any unprotected child polio.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:09 PM
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what monster parents wouldnt help keep their kids as healthy as possible!?!

We have to have vaccines under DHS regulations
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:27 PM
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I don't accept children who don't have their vaccinations. If I have an infant who is not yet old enough to recieve all theirs I don't want another child possibly passing something on to them.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:59 PM
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what monster parents wouldnt help keep their kids as healthy as possible!?!

We have to have vaccines under DHS regulations
Pardon me? That comment about "monster parents" was completely and utterly unacceptable. There are MANY reasons that parents choose to not have their children vacinated and quite honestly, NONE of those reasons are your business.

The small-minded thinking that vaccines keep children "healthy as possible" is completely uneducated and in many cases untruthful. Please, educate yourself.

Also, as a side note, I have always happily taken dcks who are not vaccinated - and I find they are typically healthier all around than my kiddos who are. Funny how that works out
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:04 PM
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Pardon me? That comment about "monster parents" was completely and utterly unacceptable. There are MANY reasons that parents choose to not have their children vacinated and quite honestly, NONE of those reasons are your business.

The small-minded thinking that vaccines keep children "healthy as possible" is completely uneducated and in many cases untruthful. Please, educate yourself.

Also, as a side note, I have always happily taken dcks who are not vaccinated - and I find they are typically healthier all around than my kiddos who are. Funny how that works out
Im so glad im big enough to not take myself that seriously. And am just as educated as the rest of the fine ladies and gentleparents here I figured after i wrote that someone wouldnt like it. So ill retract the statment cause you are probably right...... still whats wrong with my thoughts being interjected since the same freedom i have to say them are the same freedoms you have to say that in response.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:11 PM
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Im so glad im big enough to not take myself that seriously. And am just as educated as the rest of the fine ladies and gentleparents here I figured after i wrote that someone wouldnt like it. So ill retract the statment cause you are probably right...... still whats wrong with my thoughts being interjected since the same freedom i have to say them are the same freedoms you have to say that in response.
It's one thing to have differing opinions - quite another to call someone a MONSTER because of it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:15 PM
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It's one thing to have differing opinions - quite another to call someone a MONSTER because of it.
True that

Though you could have refrained from calling me UNEDUCATED
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:38 PM
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True that

Though you could have refrained from calling me UNEDUCATED
I didn't mean you as a person were uneducated. I meant your comment was uneducated - which is obvious, because you basically claimed that vaccines keep children as healthy as possible... which, quite simply, isn't true.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dave4him View Post
Im so glad im big enough to not take myself that seriously. And am just as educated as the rest of the fine ladies and gentleparents here I figured after i wrote that someone wouldnt like it. So ill retract the statment cause you are probably right...... still whats wrong with my thoughts being interjected since the same freedom i have to say them are the same freedoms you have to say that in response.
I got a little nervous to scroll down after I read your comment Dave! I thought for sure you would be "executed"! Everyone is 100% entitled to their opinion on this forum!! There are valid arguments to both sides of this topic... I have a feeling that the people that are for NOT vaccinating will probably just have a stronger opinion than the opposing side. That being said, why do we have to make personal attacks against anyone's knowledge or "education"?? It's an opinion and for all we know anyone could be very educated in their opinion, so let's just relax, try to be open minded, and communicate with respect
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:47 PM
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im a flame thrower what can i say. Guess i just got enough dressing down from the DHS as to why we have to demand vaccines. But sometimes parents cant afford them so there really can be a number of reasons legitmetly for not getting them. Dang health care! and yes i know i cant spell
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:55 PM
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I got a little nervous to scroll down after I read your comment Dave! I thought for sure you would be "executed"! Everyone is 100% entitled to their opinion on this forum!! There are valid arguments to both sides of this topic... I have a feeling that the people that are for NOT vaccinating will probably just have a stronger opinion than the opposing side. That being said, why do we have to make personal attacks against anyone's knowledge or "education"?? It's an opinion and for all we know anyone could be very educated in their opinion, so let's just relax, try to be open minded, and communicate with respect
I agree about communicating with respect - however, when someone makes an uneducated comment, I think they should be called out on it so they can indeed educate themselves. If you re-read my words, I never called Dave himself uneducated - it's plainly obvious I was referring to his outlandish comment. I would hardly call that a personal attack - especially considering his blanket statement of parents who don't vaccinate being monsters.

Dave, that is precisely why I recommended educating yourself about vaccines... you're simply trusting what the DHS feeds you for the reason you think that vaccines are necessary... there is PLENTY of information out there that dispells many of the common myths about how fabulous vaccines are. Likewise, there is plenty of pro-vaccine information out there. BUT, develop your own opinion before spewing hatred at others - don't just recycle the beliefs of the DHS.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:10 PM
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In my state only medical waivers are granted for daycare, but many states have religious and philosophical waivers as well.

School aged children here can use a religious waiver and the parent is supposed to make a notarized copy and renew it annually.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:23 PM
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No hate here
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:58 PM
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What I don't get is why licensing requires daycares to track vaccinations at all if waivers are accepted for any reason. Its silly that providers can be fined if vaccines aren't up to date for families that have some but not all vaccines, yet with a little waiver in their file - it's no longer an issue for them to have none? If it is not a health concern to them if a parent simply doesn't wish to vaccinate or has a medical reason, then why should it matter if another family is a little late on one of theirs? It's no worse than none at all. That's so crazy to me.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:14 AM
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In my state, they can sign a waiver. I believe it has to have a physician signature as well. I do not accept children without vaccinations and state that in my handbook. My reasons are, I accept newborns and do not want them to be exposed to anything the non vaccinated child could bring in before the newborn has had a chance to be vaccinated for it, and my own daughter has some health concerns. I do believe that it is a parents choice to vaccinate, delay vaccinations, or opt out all together. I am just not a good match for them as a daycare provider.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:24 AM
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My ex sister in law is a nurse she does not vaccinate her children and the children are in perfect help. Always has been....I don't have a problem with children not being vaccinated although with me being fairly new in the daycare biz I feel like we all need to be covered on all area's of the spectrum. I am not certified so the state doesn't come in and regulate me. I haven't really thought about this so I am glad it's brought up as I will be implementing a waiver to be signed. I really don't mind a family not being vaccinated over a family that is. I am very much for herbal health..not sure if I voiced that correctly but I am pro choice...
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:14 AM
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I'm wondering how a waiver would work in my state.

I DO have a child in care who's parent's have not immunized their daughter by choice. Thy have an autistic older son and are convinced that it is due to his shots. So I have a waiver on file.

However, they had to go to the health department and have the waiver witnessed by an official there.

I personally love the idea of getting a waiver form from all the parents and then they can do whatever they want and I'm not responsible (keeping track of shots for 16 kids is VERY time consuming for me) BUT I can see it could get confusing for the state health dept as the parents would sign a waiver and yet then get their kids immunized anyway......hhmmmmm....gonna have to think this over before I decide to ask for a waiver from everyone....
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:30 AM
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The vaccination debate is one of the reasons why I am thankfull that our state doesn't make it uber difficult for us that do center or home-based DC. We are required to use the same vaccination form record that our schools use and right on the back of it the record has a personal beliefs affidavit already in place. All I have to do is ask the parents to either sign the affidavit portion or to keep me updated on their child's immunizations. I don't fill out the record, I just photocopy the immunization card for the DCK's that do get shots after each immunization visit.

Here's what our personal affidavit says:

Quote:
PERSONAL BELIEFS AFFIDAVIT TO BE SIGNED BY PARENT OR GUARDIAN - IMMUNIZATION
I hereby request exemption of the child, named on the front, from the imminization requirements for school/child care because all or some immunizations are contrary to my beliefs. I understand that in case of an outbreak of any one of these diseases, the child may be temporarily excluded from attending for his/her protection.
In CA it doesn't really matter whether it's due to a religious or personal belief, if you don't want immunizations you don't have to immunize.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:59 AM
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I'm wondering how a waiver would work in my state.

I DO have a child in care who's parent's have not immunized their daughter by choice. Thy have an autistic older son and are convinced that it is due to his shots. So I have a waiver on file.

However, they had to go to the health department and have the waiver witnessed by an official there.

I personally love the idea of getting a waiver form from all the parents and then they can do whatever they want and I'm not responsible (keeping track of shots for 16 kids is VERY time consuming for me) BUT I can see it could get confusing for the state health dept as the parents would sign a waiver and yet then get their kids immunized anyway......hhmmmmm....gonna have to think this over before I decide to ask for a waiver from everyone....
Just called our rules training lady! She's a sweetheart! She verified that the exemption form does have to be signed by a health dept official and that it would make life very difficult for them if they had records of children NOT having immunizations when in fact they do.

So I guess I'll still being doing the paperwork!!! I wouldn't be written up for having the waivers instead of records of shots...but I can see the dilemma for the health department if every provider did it that way.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:07 PM
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I would chat with a medical professional about how unvaccinated children could possibly affect your health. Even vaccinated children can come down with some of the things they've been vaccinated for so it's not fool proof.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:52 PM
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I heard of this, but what religions do this? Do other parents have the right to know about this?
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:26 AM
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In our center we have to have vaccination records - and here they even have to have flu shots. I'm not in agreement but it's regulation. I am also not fond of the chicken pox vaccine as it is not tried and true IMHO.

We did have one child that was allergic to egg and the mother avoided vaccine until he was older as she was told the vaccines had an egg base. I'm not sure if they still use that technique. She did provide a Doctor's note.

My personal feeling is that those that don't vaccinate are taking a risk and depending on those that do vaccinate. The vaccines were developed to decrease chance of epidemic. So as the non-vaccinated ratio increases, so does the chance of some of these horrible diseases returning.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:03 AM
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MarinaVanessa,

That's exactly what happens in my state. I can get fined $75 per record not up to date. That's why it's my policy.

I'm sorry, I'm not the parent.

My licensor questioned me the first time she saw all the waivers - they ask for 5 child files. All 5 had waivers signed. Then she just moved on to the next line on her checklist when I told her why.

The state can't require immunizations. They only require the form is in the file and filled out.
It seems kind of silly to me to require the provider to remind parents about the vaccinations and insist on records being kept when the vaccines are not required for the child to be in care. Since a waiver can be used for pretty much any reason, it just seems like a lot of work for nothing.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:41 AM
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I've seen the question asked: why would any parent choose not to vaccinate?

I know of several reasons and thought perhaps I'd share for the purpose of shedding a little light on a subject.

Around here, we have lots of Amish. They do not vaccinate. They use herbal remedies as much as possible, but will go to the doctor if necessary. Often times they have their own health professionals who deal in herbs and things like chiropractory.

I have a good friend who is a nurse and she has chosen not to vaccinate. She sees a lot more than I do, and knows firsthand some of the side-effects of vaccinations. While they are rare, they DO occur. She feels the risks of exposure of the really threatening illnesses - for example, polio, are so low in this country that the risk of the child contracting it is minimal.

I have read that reactions to some vaccines seems to run in families, so like the one family mentioned, if one child had a severe reaction, others are more likely to.

When I was growing up there were no vaccines for chicken pox, mumps, or even german measles. I knew of noone who died from these diseases, although I know some people did, especially infants and infants in utero.

There is also the aspect of the disease becoming resistant to the vaccine, such as in the case of pertussis (whooping cough). My daughter got whooping cough in her pre-teens even though she was vaccinated. Being vaccinated is not a cure-all and end-all. There are many risks involved. An individual needs to consider and weigh the risks and the benefits and make their own decision.

And yes, the child of my good friend is registered for on-call in my daycare and has signed a waiver, which is right on the front of our immunization record. I have no problem with it.

On the other hand - the OP poster has no spleen. THAT is a concern in my mind, for doing daycare at all. We had a good friend who had to have his spleen removed and he was terribly susceptible to all diseases. I would be concerned no matter who I had in my daycare. Kids catch all kinds of things! But as to whether a child with no vaccinations carry any greater risk - IMO they do not. But that is just my opinion, and everyone must decide for themselves and their situation!
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:52 AM
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I dont think it woudl make you any more sick. Where I live parents can refuse shots due to there religous beliefs but so far it has not been an issue. The parents do have to have a note from there doctor for provider records. I for one cant imagine not getting shots.
Deb
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:45 AM
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My child is not vaccinated. She had a severe allergic reaction to her first round of shots so we decided better to be safe than sorry and chose not to vaccinate further after consults with her allergist. There are many uneducated people out there preaching the benefits of vaccines and judging others. I saw a form that my DR had to fill out to record her reaction to send into Health Canada and there was a box that said "DEATH". Do you know how scary that is? Death as a possible side effect to a vaccine? I understand it is EXTREMELY rare but when your child has an allergic reaction to a vaccine you begin to wonder....

I certainly hope no one feels that I'm a "monster" because I chose not to vaccinate my child. It's great to sit on the throne of judgement about other parents choices but in reality you have no clue why they chose not to vaccinate. It's wonderful that your children received all of their vaccines and weren't affected by them, but there are children out there that have reactions and parents choose to stop. I am one of them.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:48 AM
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Ok to clear the air here, I'm under the impression that a lot of mommies don't have an understanding of as to why some family's choose to skip on the vaccines. Vaccines have mercury, aluminum, falmerderhide, in them as a preservative. These chemicals r proven to cause cancer. Among other autoimmune problems. They r also made with aborted fetus matter, and with monkey parts.
Now when we r told something over and over again, we tend to take it and believe it as truth. I'm talking about what we've been conditioned to think we know as facts, just because we r told this from someone we think is official. (Hence shots r good for us.)

Now their r many groups of parents, even dr,s that blame the shots for the sudden onset of Autisim, in a perfectly normal child, developing well until shortly after a round of shots. But the c.d.c/ f.d.a or big pharma will not say the child developed the disease due to the shots. But on the other hand u can see many law suits where the parents won justifying that yes the shots were to blame, I think this is why it's so hard to really get a straight answer. Remember the vaccine industry in a multi billion dollar industry, and I'm sure big pharma would not want to be hurt financially, There was a study done in Australia where it used to be mandatory to vaccinate but changed to laws, to the family's choice weather to vacinate or not and the year they changed that law the rate of s.i.d.s dropped by 50percent, that's a huge drop! So there's another reason parents choose not to because its believed the shots may link to s.i.d.s also.

Personally I have three children that I never asked questions and just assumed ok I'm doing the right think getting them vaccinated, and they were and thankfully they r all fine and healthy. Now I'm preg with my fourth and have been reading as much as pos about the issue from bolth sides, and I have to admit I am questioning vaccinating this one? With that being said I think there r many factors that come into play when deciding. My children don't go to daycare and r breast feed. But I also will have three other children coming home from school with germs. So I think i will vacinate but just a bit later for my newborn, so it's little immune system has a chance to build and it's brain has a chance to develope, so it lowers the chance of autism, so probably at two years I will vacinate but not right away. With that being said in our great country U.S.A the chance of polio r very low but not in other countries, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan ect. They do still very much deal with these diseases, so if u plan on traveling abroad I defiantly would vaccinate.because ur chances of being exposed r much greater there.

Weather u decide to be pro vaccine or anti vaccine. Isn't that the beauty of this country? That we r free to have a choice as to what we decide is right for our children and what we put into their bodies. Not every one is blessed lik we r. So good for u if u choose not to for excersizing ur rights, and to the parents who choose to vac. I wouldn't be worried about exposure because ur children should for the most part be in the clear. To me, it's very curious that in my day 1 in 2,500 children were autistic now since the 1990,s the rates have drastically went up to 1 in 75 children will be diagnosed with Autisim? That's a huge jump.

So for all mommies talk to ur nurses and dr,s get a number of opinions, use ur Internet to educate yourselves, from bolth sides pro and anti. And then make the decision that's best for you. But I wouldn't just blindly go about anything anymore. There r risks and benefits to bolth sides. I think it's just trying to decide witch it a lesser of to evils. No body wants their child to become diseased or disabled either..

Searching for the truth

Last edited by Michael; 10-30-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:28 AM
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(repeating mantra in my head...."I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above...........")
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:34 AM
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(repeating mantra in my head...."I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above...........")


I had to resist the urge to edit and correct spelling. I cannot stand people who feel they have a valid point but don't or can't take the time to spell things out correctly. While reading it, I felt like it was a super long text from a teenager.
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  #47  
Old 10-30-2012, 10:03 AM
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(repeating mantra in my head...."I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above, I will not respond to this ancient dead thread and the ridiculous post above...........")
I have no urge to respond to that...I can barely read it!

But, I can't resist this: formaldehyde (and I didn't even have to use spell check or look it up!)

I didn't know vaccines had monkey parts though...how does the spleen fit through the syringe?

and...well, yeah.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:07 AM
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Pardon me? That comment about "monster parents" was completely and utterly unacceptable. There are MANY reasons that parents choose to not have their children vacinated and quite honestly, NONE of those reasons are your business.
While I agree that monster parents weren't the right word choice, I believe in vaccines and the sentiment of giving your child every chance. I don't judge those who believe differently, however, I have chosen to NOT accept any child that isn't fully vaccinated. My state allows a waiver, my home does not. The point..if a person wants to bring their child to me, those types of things ARE my business, from the moment you bring it into MY HOME.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:14 AM
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While I agree that monster parents weren't the right word choice, I believe in vaccines and the sentiment of giving your child every chance. I don't judge those who believe differently, however, I have chosen to NOT accept any child that isn't fully vaccinated. My state allows a waiver, my home does not. The point..if a person wants to bring their child to me, those types of things ARE my business, from the moment you bring it into MY HOME.
It's your business to turn a family away because the child isn't vaccinated. The reasons the child isn't vaccinated isn't your business.

Oh and by the way, the parents who believe that their child developed illness, a life-long diasability or even died from vaccinations would argue your point that vaccinations "give your child every chance".
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:05 PM
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Personally I would turn away an unvaccinated family. My son was in childcare since 11 weeks & was.always.sick. . his first few years were constant battles of something or another. If i had to worry he could contract measles or polio would never have rested!
I choose to vaccinate my children & I breastfeed my kids...that is my choice but, it doesnt mean I have to feel awful everytime your child gets sick!
And for the record....I see spelling errors all the time on this forum, myself included!
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:24 PM
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I JUST enrolled a DCB 3yrs, who has not been vaccinated. I am also going to be taking in an infant in may who will be about 5 months. The thought of exposing an infant to any potential diseases really never crossed my mind at that time. I also have a 12 month old of course who received vaccinations.

I was concerned about the no vaccines personally and worried about any possible exposures.

Do you think I would be putting the new infant in may in any possible danger?
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:13 AM
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I have no urge to respond to that...I can barely read it!

But, I can't resist this: formaldehyde (and I didn't even have to use spell check or look it up!)

I didn't know vaccines had monkey parts though...how does the spleen fit through the syringe?

and...well, yeah.
Cripes, now you make me want to actually go back and read it . I only got through the first line...
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:17 AM
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I JUST enrolled a DCB 3yrs, who has not been vaccinated. I am also going to be taking in an infant in may who will be about 5 months. The thought of exposing an infant to any potential diseases really never crossed my mind at that time. I also have a 12 month old of course who received vaccinations.

I was concerned about the no vaccines personally and worried about any possible exposures.

Do you think I would be putting the new infant in may in any possible danger?
No.

The viruses and bacteria that cause those diseases are not just floating around in the air and present on every surface waiting for an unvaccinated person to wander by in order to infect them and make them sick...that's not how it works. The chance of the unvax child bringing in a vaccine preventable disease is so negligible as to be pretty much completely unmentionable.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:18 AM
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Cripes, now you make me want to actually go back and read it . I only got through the first line...
I didn't get much beyond the first few lines.

And I wouldn't have corrected the spelling except that the word "formaldehyde" was mangled ridiculously!
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:27 AM
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Personally I would turn away an unvaccinated family. My son was in childcare since 11 weeks & was.always.sick. . his first few years were constant battles of something or another. If i had to worry he could contract measles or polio would never have rested!
I choose to vaccinate my children & I breastfeed my kids...that is my choice but, it doesnt mean I have to feel awful everytime your child gets sick!
And for the record....I see spelling errors all the time on this forum, myself included!
Fwiw~ I wasn't dissing the actual spelling errors as much as I was commenting on the "text talk".

If you (any poster) are trying to make a valid point in a discussion, then take the time to spell out the words. Such as "you are" instead of "u r".

I also understand that some posters are posting from their smart phones but I still feel that to be taken a bit more seriously, talk or type as an adult.

I felt like the whole post was one long text message from a teenager.


Also, kids that are in daycare for the first time ALL tend to be sick a little more than normal since their exposure to normal illnesses and ailments is new and their little bodies haven't had a chance to build up any immunities yet. I don't think that type of sickness has anything to do with vaccines.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:55 AM
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Fwiw~ I wasn't dissing the actual spelling errors as much as I was commenting on the "text talk".

If you (any poster) are trying to make a valid point in a discussion, then take the time to spell out the words. Such as "you are" instead of "u r".

I also understand that some posters are posting from their smart phones but I still feel that to be taken a bit more seriously, talk or type as an adult.

I felt like the whole post was one long text message from a teenager.


Also, kids that are in daycare for the first time ALL tend to be sick a little more than normal since their exposure to normal illnesses and ailments is new and their little bodies haven't had a chance to build up any immunities yet. I don't think that type of sickness has anything to do with vaccines.
I agree with the speeling out of words but, as a smartphone only poster I have to tell you it can be a hassle. The cursor jumps all over the place and you cant see what you are tying when you type it!

As for my sons illnesses, I was not stating that it had anything to do with vaccines. I was just saying that I chose to have him done. I know kids in childcare get sick a lot but, I have seen a BIG difference between my first & second child. My little guy is much healthier so it isn't every child but, probably most! I just wouldnt want to hear it from a dcp that their child picks up every illness but, isnt vaccinated. I personally think the risks are so small & choose to give my kids the shots. It is every parents right to choose to or not to vaccinate. I do think that a parentthat chose not to though would feel different if their child caught chicken pox from another unvaccinated child. Just saying.

I feel that while I enjoy reading this forum very much some posters are very judgemental & quick to correct people. Sometimes it comes off as "i am better than you". The beuty is thst it is ooen to anyone to post & we should welcome different opinions without ridicule. JMHO.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Oneluckymom View Post
I JUST enrolled a DCB 3yrs, who has not been vaccinated. I am also going to be taking in an infant in may who will be about 5 months. The thought of exposing an infant to any potential diseases really never crossed my mind at that time. I also have a 12 month old of course who received vaccinations.

I was concerned about the no vaccines personally and worried about any possible exposures.

Do you think I would be putting the new infant in may in any possible danger?
I think if the parents of the infant have chosen to immunize, then you should talk with them and let them know you have an older child in care who is not immunized. (Don't name names, or be negative about it).... because they believe in it they will have the option of knowing since their little one won't have all the shots at 5 months old.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:23 AM
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I agree with the speeling out of words but, as a smartphone only poster I have to tell you it can be a hassle. The cursor jumps all over the place and you cant see what you are tying when you type it!

As for my sons illnesses, I was not stating that it had anything to do with vaccines. I was just saying that I chose to have him done. I know kids in childcare get sick a lot but, I have seen a BIG difference between my first & second child. My little guy is much healthier so it isn't every child but, probably most! I just wouldnt want to hear it from a dcp that their child picks up every illness but, isnt vaccinated. I personally think the risks are so small & choose to give my kids the shots. It is every parents right to choose to or not to vaccinate. I do think that a parentthat chose not to though would feel different if their child caught chicken pox from another unvaccinated child. Just saying.

I feel that while I enjoy reading this forum very much some posters are very judgemental & quick to correct people. Sometimes it comes off as "i am better than you". The beuty is thst it is ooen to anyone to post & we should welcome different opinions without ridicule. JMHO.
Point taken

I am usually not one to judge, especially unregistered posters. I agree that an open forum with hundreds of differing viewpoints is a wonderfull thing!!
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:13 PM
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Default In answer to exposure level not having a spleen

Most everyone is correct. An unvaccinated child is more at risk in terms of contracting the diseases they are not vaccinated for and not recovering well. However, they also spread those diseases around at a higher rate for longer. Since their body is not primed to fight the infection, the bacteria replicate in their body for longer before they can fight the infection. So they expose everyone for a longer period of time and to a higher bacterial load. Also remember that not all vaccines are for rare diseases. Bacteria that cause Pneumonia, meningitis, diarrhea diseases and ear infections are part of most states' vaccination schedule.

As for the person without a spleen, you are in some extra danger.
You are susceptible to infections by certain bacteria called "encapsulated organisms". This includes the bacteria that most commonly causes pneumonia (S. pneumo), the bacteria that is the most common cause of ear infections (H. Influenzae B) but was previously a common cause of meningitis, the bacteria that is the most common cause of meningitis, (N. meningitidis), the bacteria that is the most common cause of Urinary tract infections (E. Coli), and Salmonella which still comes around in outbreaks. These bacteria are all floating around all the time and are part of the routine vaccination schedule except e. coli and salmonella. an unvaccinated child can catch and spread all of these infections more easily than vaccinated children.

Also, in my state (FLorida) they immunize against rotavirus. This is a common cause of diarrhea.

Hope this helps make your decision about your own safety.
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:24 PM
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So, I just added an infant (8 months) to my daycare. The parents informed me that they are refusing the shots due to their beliefs so I just told them I needed a doctors note stating that. I don't know much about this... but if a baby doesn't get it's shots that are recommended does that mean they can get sick easily or make me or the other children sick more easily. I myself do not have a spleen (the organ that helps fight off infections) so would it effect me? Sorry if this is a stupid question. But I've been sick this week since she started (probably a coincidence) but still..
Thanks!
Read the regulations for your state about non vaccination in the Health Dept website (for school & daycare); some states have specific paperwork, some require just a written paper based on parent beliefs; DR note is for Medical exemption... totally different than just not wanting to Vax. Damn... old post
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:15 PM
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My policy is that if I am considering enrolling a child who is unvaccinated that I will notify other parents and see if they are okay with it. If the majority of parents are okay about it, I will enroll the unvaccinated child. If majority are not okay with it then I would not enroll the child.
Personally, after years of working in holistic healthcare, I donít believe all vaccines are necessary but for the sake of my business, Iíll make enrollment decisions based off the best interests of my current families. Iíve got several great families right now and Iíd hate to lose one of them because I enrolled an unvaccinated child.
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:25 AM
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My policy is that if I am considering enrolling a child who is unvaccinated that I will notify other parents and see if they are okay with it. If the majority of parents are okay about it, I will enroll the unvaccinated child. If majority are not okay with it then I would not enroll the child.
Personally, after years of working in holistic healthcare, I donít believe all vaccines are necessary but for the sake of my business, Iíll make enrollment decisions based off the best interests of my current families. Iíve got several great families right now and Iíd hate to lose one of them because I enrolled an unvaccinated child.
This is an old post, but I just wanted to recommend that you don't ask your other families for permission in enrolling an unvaccinated child. I would think that would be a breach of confidentiality in some way. Since you are talking about their medical records, and the other families will obviously know which child it is, I guess I would just be hesitant or very careful about doing that. Besides the privacy issue, once they know which child it is, they may blame them if illness spreads around the daycare. Also, once you give them a say in enrolling a child, they may still think they have a say in that decision a year down the road, if anything changes in their opinion. Also, if their children are vaccinated, they have very little reason to be concerned in terms of them getting sick. The unvaccinated child would be at the slightly higher risk level, not their children. Anyway, that's just my advice, Just so it doesn't backfire on you.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:39 AM
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This is an old post, but I just wanted to recommend that you don't ask your other families for permission in enrolling an unvaccinated child. I would think that would be a breach of confidentiality in some way. Since you are talking about their medical records, and the other families will obviously know which child it is, I guess I would just be hesitant or very careful about doing that. Besides the privacy issue, once they know which child it is, they may blame them if illness spreads around the daycare. Also, once you give them a say in enrolling a child, they may still think they have a say in that decision a year down the road, if anything changes in their opinion. Also, if their children are vaccinated, they have very little reason to be concerned in terms of them getting sick. The unvaccinated child would be at the slightly higher risk level, not their children. Anyway, that's just my advice, Just so it doesn't backfire on you.
I agree 100%!
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:28 PM
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This is an old post, but I just wanted to recommend that you don't ask your other families for permission in enrolling an unvaccinated child. I would think that would be a breach of confidentiality in some way. Since you are talking about their medical records, and the other families will obviously know which child it is, I guess I would just be hesitant or very careful about doing that. Besides the privacy issue, once they know which child it is, they may blame them if illness spreads around the daycare. Also, once you give them a say in enrolling a child, they may still think they have a say in that decision a year down the road, if anything changes in their opinion. Also, if their children are vaccinated, they have very little reason to be concerned in terms of them getting sick. The unvaccinated child would be at the slightly higher risk level, not their children. Anyway, that's just my advice, Just so it doesn't backfire on you.

Exactly this!! I would be extremely upset if I knew my provider talk about my childís medical records with anyone besides myself or my husband. Itís no ones business.
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:01 PM
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I heard of this, but what religions do this? Do other parents have the right to know about this?
Legally you or state are not allowed to ask about religion. All they have to say is they object due to their religion. They don't have to state what religion it is. No other parents don't have a right to know.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:26 PM
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This is an old post, but I just wanted to recommend that you don't ask your other families for permission in enrolling an unvaccinated child. I would think that would be a breach of confidentiality in some way. Since you are talking about their medical records, and the other families will obviously know which child it is, I guess I would just be hesitant or very careful about doing that. Besides the privacy issue, once they know which child it is, they may blame them if illness spreads around the daycare. Also, once you give them a say in enrolling a child, they may still think they have a say in that decision a year down the road, if anything changes in their opinion. Also, if their children are vaccinated, they have very little reason to be concerned in terms of them getting sick. The unvaccinated child would be at the slightly higher risk level, not their children. Anyway, that's just my advice, Just so it doesn't backfire on you.
I can definitely see how some would feel this way, however, this policy was created at the request of some of my current parents. Their concern was that their daughter is an infant and might not have yet gotten a vaccine for some disease that might be brought in by an older, unvaccinated child. Before I made it policy, I asked the other parents how they would feel about doing it this way and everyone was in favor of it. Itís a one time chance to give an opinion and I would not even hold discussion about dis-enrollment later if they were to change their minds. And as for the privacy of the unvaccinated family, I would inform them during the interview process that enrollment was dependent on my current families being okay with it and I would obtain consent to move forward from there. If the unvaccinated family was at all hesitant in me discussing it with my current families then the interview process would end there. I would never discuss their medical choices without consent just as I would never enroll an unvaccinated child without full disclosure to other parents.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:32 PM
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Exactly this!! I would be extremely upset if I knew my provider talk about my childís medical records with anyone besides myself or my husband. Itís no ones business.
Nothing would ever be discussed without obtaining consent to do so during the interview process.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:19 AM
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I can definitely see how some would feel this way, however, this policy was created at the request of some of my current parents. Their concern was that their daughter is an infant and might not have yet gotten a vaccine for some disease that might be brought in by an older, unvaccinated child. Before I made it policy, I asked the other parents how they would feel about doing it this way and everyone was in favor of it. Itís a one time chance to give an opinion and I would not even hold discussion about dis-enrollment later if they were to change their minds. And as for the privacy of the unvaccinated family, I would inform them during the interview process that enrollment was dependent on my current families being okay with it and I would obtain consent to move forward from there. If the unvaccinated family was at all hesitant in me discussing it with my current families then the interview process would end there. I would never discuss their medical choices without consent just as I would never enroll an unvaccinated child without full disclosure to other parents.
Do you then also discuss the vaccine dates/times/amounts/etc of the vaccinated children with the non-vaccinated families?

If not, I kind of see your method of managing non-vax'ed families as somewhat discriminatory. Why is their medical situation require any more info sharing than anyone else's?

I understand what you are saying in your post in regards to the not-yet-vax'ed infant but infants usually begin care between 6-8 weeks and immunizations begin about 8 weeks. Also most illnesses have symptoms so if you diligently exclude for those symptoms the likelihood of anything being spread to anyone (vaccinated or not) is slim to none.

I also think those with newborns (fragile or not-yet-developed immune systems) bear a responsibility too....if the parent is truly worried about their baby catching something, they'd best protect baby then by not leaving the house until baby has been fully immunized.

FWIW~ I am pro-vax and don't accept non-vaccinated kids into my program (for medical reasons)...I just feel like the non-vax'ed families really get the short end of things sometimes and I think are often treated unfairly.
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Old 03-19-2018, 07:31 AM
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I can definitely see how some would feel this way, however, this policy was created at the request of some of my current parents. Their concern was that their daughter is an infant and might not have yet gotten a vaccine for some disease that might be brought in by an older, unvaccinated child. Before I made it policy, I asked the other parents how they would feel about doing it this way and everyone was in favor of it. Itís a one time chance to give an opinion and I would not even hold discussion about dis-enrollment later if they were to change their minds. And as for the privacy of the unvaccinated family, I would inform them during the interview process that enrollment was dependent on my current families being okay with it and I would obtain consent to move forward from there. If the unvaccinated family was at all hesitant in me discussing it with my current families then the interview process would end there. I would never discuss their medical choices without consent just as I would never enroll an unvaccinated child without full disclosure to other parents.
I see your point, but I still think that allowing parents to decide policies is a slippery slope.

Iíd suggest having a policy to either accept or not accept unvaccinated children, then let parents decide if they are comfortable enrolling or not.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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Do you then also discuss the vaccine dates/times/amounts/etc of the vaccinated children with the non-vaccinated families?

If not, I kind of see your method of managing non-vax'ed families as somewhat discriminatory. Why is their medical situation require any more info sharing than anyone else's?

I understand what you are saying in your post in regards to the not-yet-vax'ed infant but infants usually begin care between 6-8 weeks and immunizations begin about 8 weeks. Also most illnesses have symptoms so if you diligently exclude for those symptoms the likelihood of anything being spread to anyone (vaccinated or not) is slim to none.

I also think those with newborns (fragile or not-yet-developed immune systems) bear a responsibility too....if the parent is truly worried about their baby catching something, they'd best protect baby then by not leaving the house until baby has been fully immunized.

FWIW~ I am pro-vax and don't accept non-vaccinated kids into my program (for medical reasons)...I just feel like the non-vax'ed families really get the short end of things sometimes and I think are often treated unfairly.
If a potential non vaccinated family wanted to know if my current families were vaccinated, then yes, I would disclose this information (with consent) because in all fairness the full disclosure goes both ways.

I do have a very strict illness exclusion policy that I stick to religiously so in that regards, my families are as protected as possible.

After seeing the opinions here on my policy, I actually reached out to a couple of my anti-vaccination friends, explained my policy and asked if it seemed offensive or off putting to them and they didnít have any issue with it at all. For now, Iíll keep it as it is. Changes can always be made down the road if need be.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:23 AM
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Before I made it policy, I asked the other parents how they would feel about doing it this way and everyone was in favor of it. Itís a one time chance to give an opinion and I would not even hold discussion about dis-enrollment later if they were to change their minds. And as for the privacy of the unvaccinated family, I would inform them during the interview process that enrollment was dependent on my current families being okay with it and I would obtain consent to move forward from there. If the unvaccinated family was at all hesitant in me discussing it with my current families then the interview process would end there. I would never discuss their medical choices without consent just as I would never enroll an unvaccinated child without full disclosure to other parents.

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If a potential non vaccinated family wanted to know if my current families were vaccinated, then yes, I would disclose this information (with consent) because in all fairness the full disclosure goes both ways.
I agree the full disclosure should go both ways...

But I guess I am just having trouble understanding exactly what your vaccinated families are giving permission for?

*For their child to play with a non-vax'ed kid? (the vax'ed kid isn't the one at risk....)
*Permission for the non-vax'ed family to enroll? (that gives clients the idea that THEY get input in someone else's business)

What are they (vax'ed families) asked? ~ "Hey current families.... the Smith family wants to enroll here. Their child, Johnny Smith is not vax'ed. Are you okay with Johnny attending ABC Daycare?"

What if 5 out of 6 of your families are okay with it but one is not? Do you decline enrolling the Smith family then since they aren't vax'ed and your one current family isn't okay with them attending?


I am NOT trying to give you a hard time...as I said before I am pro-vax and don't enroll non-vaccinated kids at all.

I am just trying to wrap my head around how you implement this policy as I've seen/heard alot of different thoughts and ideas in regards to managing the non-vax/vax situation and this is the first time I've ever heard of a policy like yours so just trying to understand it better.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:15 AM
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I agree the full disclosure should go both ways...

But I guess I am just having trouble understanding exactly what your vaccinated families are giving permission for?

*For their child to play with a non-vax'ed kid? (the vax'ed kid isn't the one at risk....)
*Permission for the non-vax'ed family to enroll? (that gives clients the idea that THEY get input in someone else's business)

What are they (vax'ed families) asked? ~ "Hey current families.... the Smith family wants to enroll here. Their child, Johnny Smith is not vax'ed. Are you okay with Johnny attending ABC Daycare?"

What if 5 out of 6 of your families are okay with it but one is not? Do you decline enrolling the Smith family then since they aren't vax'ed and your one current family isn't okay with them attending?


I am NOT trying to give you a hard time...as I said before I am pro-vax and don't enroll non-vaccinated kids at all.

I am just trying to wrap my head around how you implement this policy as I've seen/heard alot of different thoughts and ideas in regards to managing the non-vax/vax situation and this is the first time I've ever heard of a policy like yours so just trying to understand it better.
To my mind, that opens up a whole can of worms. I don't ever want my clients thinking they have any say in who I enroll. And legally I'm fairly sure that telling others about a families health business is some type of privacy violation. I don't think that would fly with licensing.
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:08 AM
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Since this is a very old thread that has been revived, I wanted to update that California no longer accepts personal or religious exemptions for not vaccinating - only medical.
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:26 AM
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I do not accept non vaccinated child into care. Herd immunity is not 100%, most of the kids enrolled aren't FULLY vaccinated yet (2/3 of the series...etc)

I believe my state is medical or religious exemption, with proper documentation.
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:09 PM
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http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...205880714.html

Why vaccinations in child care are important.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:21 PM
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I agree the full disclosure should go both ways...

But I guess I am just having trouble understanding exactly what your vaccinated families are giving permission for?

*For their child to play with a non-vax'ed kid? (the vax'ed kid isn't the one at risk....)
*Permission for the non-vax'ed family to enroll? (that gives clients the idea that THEY get input in someone else's business)

What are they (vax'ed families) asked? ~ "Hey current families.... the Smith family wants to enroll here. Their child, Johnny Smith is not vax'ed. Are you okay with Johnny attending ABC Daycare?"

What if 5 out of 6 of your families are okay with it but one is not? Do you decline enrolling the Smith family then since they aren't vax'ed and your one current family isn't okay with them attending?


I am NOT trying to give you a hard time...as I said before I am pro-vax and don't enroll non-vaccinated kids at all.

I am just trying to wrap my head around how you implement this policy as I've seen/heard alot of different thoughts and ideas in regards to managing the non-vax/vax situation and this is the first time I've ever heard of a policy like yours so just trying to understand it better.
The vaccinated families would be giving me their feelings on me bringing an unvaccinated child into daycare. They would be asked something along the lines of ďIíve been interviewing potential families for the opening I have and wanted to let you know that there may be an unvaccinated child in consideration. Would this be something you would be comfortable with?Ē

If I had one hold out voting no, then Iíd most likely move on to my next potential family and tell the non vaccinated family that I wouldnít be enrolling them. Ultimately it will be my decision because it is my business, but because I really value my current families, I would want to make a decision that doesnít jeopardize me losing them, especially when itís over something like this since I personally donít care either way if a child is vaccinated.

It is also worth mentioning that I have a very small daycare, only 4 kids, one of which is a relative and wouldnít care about vaccines. If I had a larger daycare this probably wouldnít be a policy simply because too many opinions would be put in the hat. With me only having to ask 2 or 3 families, itís more manageable. Itís also worth mentioning that my daycare income is our extra money so if I have an opening that I donít fill for awhile while I search for the right family, it wonít cause any problems in our household budget.

And I didnít feel like you were giving me a hard time at all, so no worries there! One of the things I love most about this forum is hearing the different opinions of others. Seeing things from someone elseís perspective can be extremely helpful.

All of this said, it turns out that it doesnít matter. As I was typing this, my husband just let me know that he accepted a job offer that will have us moving out of state and across the country which means my daycare will actually be closing soon. Looks like Iíll be losing those families I love afterall.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:36 AM
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Check your stateís exemption regs. There is probably a special form.

In my experience, non-immunized children have been healthier. My theory is that itís because they arenít fighting off the things they are exposed to while also fighting off everything injected into them. However, that means that they are MORE open to catching those illnesses if exposed. No immunization is 100% effective. Iíve had chicken pox go through my daycare twice since the vaccine became law. It hit the immunized and unimmunized kids equally...so that one isnít very effective. :P I think it still needs more work.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:38 AM
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I know this is an old post and I have posted this before (even on this thread maybe), but I enrolled a nonvax family ONCE and will never do that again....their views just weren't my views at all. Only lasted a few months until I terminated and the dcm went psycho on me refusing to leave....but you HAVE TO ALLOW US TO FEED YOUR CHILD. She had major differences when it comes to how much an 11 month and four year old could eat....these kids were starving so they whined all the time till we fed them...I know where they are now and they are older but the center says they feel she in a sense "brainwashes" the kids....one is now school-age but I think she homeschools him but sends to daycare center...ironically this lady is a teacher at the local school.
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Old 03-21-2018, 01:04 PM
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I know this is an old post and I have posted this before (even on this thread maybe), but I enrolled a nonvax family ONCE and will never do that again....their views just weren't my views at all. Only lasted a few months until I terminated and the dcm went psycho on me refusing to leave....but you HAVE TO ALLOW US TO FEED YOUR CHILD. She had major differences when it comes to how much an 11 month and four year old could eat....these kids were starving so they whined all the time till we fed them...I know where they are now and they are older but the center says they feel she in a sense "brainwashes" the kids....one is now school-age but I think she homeschools him but sends to daycare center...ironically this lady is a teacher at the local school.
Was it you who posted a while back about the DCM not sending enough breast milk for the baby and refusing to send more because she only wanted the baby fed a certain amount? I guess I could go back through the archives and look, but I always wondered how that baby turned out.
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:23 PM
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Was it you who posted a while back about the DCM not sending enough breast milk for the baby and refusing to send more because she only wanted the baby fed a certain amount? I guess I could go back through the archives and look, but I always wondered how that baby turned out.
That was me on a thread from the past but not sure if it was this one. These parents never cease to amaze me.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:40 AM
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Hello everyone, thanks for having me. I'm coming here as a new provider and as the mother of two medically exempt children. The biggest issue I have with this whole discussion is that, due to our lack of concrete knowledge about vaccines, and the debate being a bit heated, I'm reading lots of what sounds like discrimination out of fear. There are professionals on both sides who make valid arguments, but that's besides the point. Sounds like we are discussing how to handle this as professionals. If the law allows for medical exemptions, why in the world would it be ethical to dismiss or turn away a family from your care who has one? If the law in your state allows parents a personal beliefs exemption, then how can you justify going against that law and discriminating against a family who is making descisions fully within the law? I know nobody means it this way but I read a lot of what sounds like treating these unvaccinated families as if you need to make sure it's "ok" with others if their kids are around this "diseased", kid. Do you ask the other parents if it's "ok" for you to enroll a disabled child? How about a black child? This is how ridiculous it looks.

I am the parent of three children. One fully vaccinated age 14, one partially vaccinated in middle childhood now medically exempt, and a fully medically exempt infant. In my personal experience, my vaccinated child was constantly sick, and the other two are exceptionally healthy. Unvaccinated children are sick least often, as their immune systems are in better shape. Also, my middle son has behavior issues, which I noticed after I began vaccinating him. Behavior and mood problems are a side effect. Some families are more susceptible to vaccine reactions, yet NO Dr I have ever met screens for these possible contradictions prior to shooting your child up with a vaccine cocktail.....unless you ask....and most parents are too trusting to even fathom questioning their doctor.

Now, keep in mind pro vaccine campaigns play on fear...so let's be fair and let me share some stories from people I have met in real life. One friend had a cousin who suddenly died at age 2, just days after being vaccinated....and the Drs blamed it on SIDS...which by deffinition doesn't happen after age 1 I believe. I spoke to a mother who's son went on for years with no problems with vaccinations, then went for his middle school boosters and got very I'll and came down with Lupis. The university who treated him verified the vaccine caused it. So parents are also risking death or permanent disabilities when vaccinating.....so I don't suggest treating parents like freaks simply for not vaccinating...they are just trying to protect their children.

As a professional, it's none of my business. I would treat an unvaccinated child just like any other. My only business is making sure each child's file is complete; whether that be with an immunization card, medical exemption, or personal beliefs depending on the state. Complete file or incomplete file: that's as far as my nose and judgement should be going!

Philosophically it's kind of silly when you think about it.....there's no vaccine for aids....but suddenly if there were one....would you be more afraid of children who weren't vaccinated against aids? If so, why? Flue shots aren't mandatory...are you afraid of allowing children in who don't have their flue shot? How many people do you encounter at the grocery store who touch the same surfaces as you, are unvaccinated? ATMs? Gas pumps? Doors? Do you shake hands with people you meet? When these parents take their kids to the park or a play place....do they ask all the kids to prove they are vaccinated? When they get to public school do you think they are going to announce to parents there are unvaccinated children?

All I ask is to consider that parents who don't vaccinate obstain for the same reasons pro vaccine parents choose to go ahead with it.......both feel with GOOD reason, they are protecting their children from death or disability. And please don't think all parents who dont vaccinate are lunatics. I'm sure there are plenty of vaccinating parents who are nuts, so don't say you'll "never" accept an unvaccinated child, or "never again".....that's like saying you had a bad experience with a black child and so you'll "never again".

Talk to a holistic dr....get their opinion. Remeber....medical drs have their entire medical career (including textbooks) planned and mannaged by pharmaceutical companies.(good hearted people but trained drug pushers) So sometimes talking to them is like asking a car salesman to choose a car off his lot for you to buy. remember we are in a time when inclusion is big...and our society has become so much better for it.
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:14 AM
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Not even going to address that tomfoolery ^

I took a call yesterday afternoon from a woman looking for summer care for her SA kid. She told me I had to take him because his school only requires her to write the sentence "We don't do vaccinations any more."

Not how it works; if you choose to keep your child in a state of vulnerability to fatal illnesses, deal with the consequences of the rest of the world keeping your child away from itself.
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:23 AM
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Not even going to address that tomfoolery ^

I took a call yesterday afternoon from a woman looking for summer care for her SA kid. She told me I had to take him because his school only requires her to write the sentence "We don't do vaccinations any more."

Not how it works; if you choose to keep your child in a state of vulnerability to fatal illnesses, deal with the consequences of the rest of the world keeping your child away from itself.
I cannot take kids that are not vaccinated . If they have a reason for a specific one but it has to be documented(by a doctor) as why that vaccine was not given. There are special forms to fill out etc... Luckily I have not dealt with children that aren't. I have had one or two parents who delayed them a little. I won't get into the vaccine debate either way but I think it is a little crazy to say vaccines cause behavior issues and lupus. I can also say that I've seen kids that were healthier because of xyz, but it is on the individuals immune system and what they have been exposed to. I have two exclusively breastfed kids(siblings) that are almost always sicker than the formula fed kids. Should I jump to conclusions formula makes you healthier, nope! It has something to do with those children's immune systems.
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:29 AM
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So for those that do vaccinate their children, have you ever read the ACTUAL package insert that comes with the vaccine?
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:46 AM
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So for those that do vaccinate their children, have you ever read the ACTUAL package insert that comes with the vaccine?
Sorry, but I already believe in Jesus and am not interested in adding another faith system at this point in time.
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:01 AM
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So for those that do vaccinate their children, have you ever read the ACTUAL package insert that comes with the vaccine?
Did you read the other posts in this thread?

It's NOT a debate about vaccines.

It's about how providers manage BOTH vaccinated and non-vaccinated children within their families and businesses.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:24 AM
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If the law allows for medical exemptions, why in the world would it be ethical to dismiss or turn away a family from your care who has one? If the law in your state allows parents a personal beliefs exemption, then how can you justify going against that law and discriminating against a family who is making descisions fully within the law?
It isn't illegal to refuse a child who hasn't been vaccinated. How is it ethical to NOT accept these kids? Because I won't put unvaccinated infants at higher risk of being exposed to an illness. Because I don't take on families whose parenting styles are not in line with mine. And, because I have preemie twins here who have been ordered to not be around unvaccinated kids (one has cancer and has NO immunity to vaccine preventable illness at this time).

I have no issues with denying unvaccinated kids. There are daycares who accept them, and that is their right, but I am not one of them. I require all kids to have an influenza vaccine by Nov 1 of every year, as well, since I have 5 kids with lung issues here (and I also am at increased risk with influenza).

I choose to believe the scientists at NIH, WHO, and the like to have proven that vaccine risk is very low compared to benefit, and appreciate the data that shows that diptheria, small pox, and polio are pretty much 100% eradicated from our country because of vaccination. Measles, rubella, HiB are 99.9% eradicated. That data makes me decide that vaccination is the right choice for most kids. Medically exempt kids, I understand that it is hard to find care for them, and I empathize, but they aren't my kids, so that is for their parents to worry about.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:40 AM
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Different people have different feelings about it. That doesn't make those feelings equal--we all believe there's a massive amount of scientific evidence to support our side and that the people pushing the other side are misguided at best and predatory at worst. We're all making decisions for our own businesses based on what we believe to be the best practice. And we're not going to change that because some parent calls us and tells us that "My doctor gave me a note so you have to accommodate me."

Nor are we going to change it because some internet slactivist links us to the blog that changed their life. True for vaccinations, true for diet, for sleep practices, for religion, political affiliation, and everything else that makes up our faith and practice.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:55 AM
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I canít believe all of you are so keen on waivers and money and fines but not one of you have listed the ingredients in the vaccines? For one, human diploid cell is listed on the package insert I donít think any of you have asked the doctor for before administration. It lists it on the cdc site itself. It even lists sids and autism as a side effect amongst the hundred other side effects. It says formaldehyde solution, human diploid lung fibroblasts (aborted fetal tissue) chick embryo, bovine serum, monkey kidney, latex, peanut derivative, wheat germ, ect. And it states that GM yeast bacterial and viral DNA can incorporate into recipients DNA and cause unknown genetic mutations. Go read it all for yourself. I for one will forever refuse anymore vaccines after almost losing my son within 72 hours after 4 shots were administered. It took my son almost dying to do enough research to realize the industry became immune from lawsuit since 1986 and they were charged with knowing the SV cancer virus was contaminated in our polio vaccine in the beginning. That they were just fined over 15 billion and they just went back to doing it. That 75,000 have died from the MMR vaccine already and the billions in compensation to vaccine injured children. And guess what, the same people that own the patents, are in control of our media and pharmaceutical industry. My last two are by far the healthiest and it is well known natural acquired immunity is far better than injection that by passes your immune system and can overload and kill your liver,spleen, and appendix. We wonder where our autoimmune issues and allergies are coming from when they were unheard of before vaccination. That every disease declined before vaccines were ever introduced. Something that bypasses your blood brain barrier. We are to give no more than 26mcg max of aluminum to a child yet they are receiving 250mg on their first dose. Wonder about all those shaken baby syndromes where parents are out in jail and they say they never did it. Itís the encephalitis from the Dtap shot and the uncontrollable screaming. This world wants money. How is my child that has never even been exposed to the diseases youíve injected into yourself a harm to you? If anything we are cleaner and safer than anyone who has been. And Remeber in 1990 you may have got 8-14 shots as you got older. They require 74 now with my kids. Screw that. If we were fine why more now? Why has our autism rate skyrocketed to every 1-1,000 ? And if I breastfeed my immunities for what I was vaccinated against, should be passed to my children anyways. Please do your research. And realize that vaccines shed anywhere from a couple weeks to a month. And every pertussis epidemic was caused by the ones vaccinated for it. They are the ones spreading it. Not the ones who have never been exposed. All info you can reseRch for yourself. Remember google sensors anything against vaccination even vaccine injured claims settled in court. Pinterest is the only thing left uncensored
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
It isn't illegal to refuse a child who hasn't been vaccinated. How is it ethical to NOT accept these kids? Because I won't put unvaccinated infants at higher risk of being exposed to an illness. Because I don't take on families whose parenting styles are not in line with mine. And, because I have preemie twins here who have been ordered to not be around unvaccinated kids (one has cancer and has NO immunity to vaccine preventable illness at this time).

I have no issues with denying unvaccinated kids. There are daycares who accept them, and that is their right, but I am not one of them. I require all kids to have an influenza vaccine by Nov 1 of every year, as well, since I have 5 kids with lung issues here (and I also am at increased risk with influenza).

I choose to believe the scientists at NIH, WHO, and the like to have proven that vaccine risk is very low compared to benefit, and appreciate the data that shows that diptheria, small pox, and polio are pretty much 100% eradicated from our country because of vaccination. Measles, rubella, HiB are 99.9% eradicated. That data makes me decide that vaccination is the right choice for most kids. Medically exempt kids, I understand that it is hard to find care for them, and I empathize, but they aren't my kids, so that is for their parents to worry about.
You are part of the reason kids are dying

Last edited by Blackcat31; 09-12-2018 at 10:09 AM.
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  #91  
Old 09-12-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I canít believe all of you are so keen on waivers and money and fines but not one of you have listed the ingredients in the vaccines? For one, human diploid cell is listed on the package insert I donít think any of you have asked the doctor for before administration. It lists it on the cdc site itself. It even lists sids and autism as a side effect amongst the hundred other side effects. It says formaldehyde solution, human diploid lung fibroblasts (aborted fetal tissue) chick embryo, bovine serum, monkey kidney, latex, peanut derivative, wheat germ, ect. And it states that GM yeast bacterial and viral DNA can incorporate into recipients DNA and cause unknown genetic mutations. Go read it all for yourself. I for one will forever refuse anymore vaccines after almost losing my son within 72 hours after 4 shots were administered. It took my son almost dying to do enough research to realize the industry became immune from lawsuit since 1986 and they were charged with knowing the SV cancer virus was contaminated in our polio vaccine in the beginning. That they were just fined over 15 billion and they just went back to doing it. That 75,000 have died from the MMR vaccine already and the billions in compensation to vaccine injured children. And guess what, the same people that own the patents, are in control of our media and pharmaceutical industry. My last two are by far the healthiest and it is well known natural acquired immunity is far better than injection that by passes your immune system and can overload and kill your liver,spleen, and appendix. We wonder where our autoimmune issues and allergies are coming from when they were unheard of before vaccination. That every disease declined before vaccines were ever introduced. Something that bypasses your blood brain barrier. We are to give no more than 26mcg max of aluminum to a child yet they are receiving 250mg on their first dose. Wonder about all those shaken baby syndromes where parents are out in jail and they say they never did it. Itís the encephalitis from the Dtap shot and the uncontrollable screaming. This world wants money. How is my child that has never even been exposed to the diseases youíve injected into yourself a harm to you? If anything we are cleaner and safer than anyone who has been. And Remeber in 1990 you may have got 8-14 shots as you got older. They require 74 now with my kids. Screw that. If we were fine why more now? Why has our autism rate skyrocketed to every 1-1,000 ? And if I breastfeed my immunities for what I was vaccinated against, should be passed to my children anyways. Please do your research. And realize that vaccines shed anywhere from a couple weeks to a month. And every pertussis epidemic was caused by the ones vaccinated for it. They are the ones spreading it. Not the ones who have never been exposed. All info you can reseRch for yourself. Remember google sensors anything against vaccination even vaccine injured claims settled in court. Pinterest is the only thing left uncensored
Your opinion is just that. Your opinion. Every parent is allowed to do as they choose to do just as every business owner is allowed to make whatever choices they choose to make for their business.

As a parent you have that right as well.



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You are part of the reason kids are dying
The best way to get others to listen and agree is to educate verses pointing fingers.

Those that believe in vaccinations feel the reason there is so much illness etc is because of people like you.

The finger points both ways.
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  #92  
Old 09-12-2018, 10:18 AM
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I can’t believe all of you are so keen on waivers and money and fines but not one of you have listed the ingredients in the vaccines?
Because we don't care. That is between the parent and doctor to discuss.

We LEGALLY can not enroll unvaccinated children without a medical waiver. Period.

Work out the issue with your doctor, get the waiver signed and let us carry on with our business legally.

There is nothing special about this.
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  #93  
Old 09-12-2018, 10:24 AM
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You are part of the reason kids are dying
SCIENCE. It's real. Crazies on the internet? Not so much.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:01 AM
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I heard of this, but what religions do this? Do other parents have the right to know about this?
Doesn't matter. Legally, parents can not be questioned about their religion. All they have to say is it is against their religion. They do not have to say what that religion is.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:21 AM
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Doesn't matter. Legally, parents can not be questioned about their religion. All they have to say is it is against their religion. They do not have to say what that religion is.
Here in WV religion is not a valid excuse for a waiver. If they do not have medical waiver we cannot enroll them period!
I won't get into why vaccines are good versus bad. I know that people died of polio before the vaccine though.
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  #96  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:47 AM
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Doesn't matter. Legally, parents can not be questioned about their religion. All they have to say is it is against their religion. They do not have to say what that religion is.
They still must have the doctor sign the waiver to be enrolled in group childcare in most states. This discussion is between parents and doctors, not childcare providers. All we care about is the expiration date and signature on the form, so we don't get cited/fined, the rest is no business of ours.

It makes no difference to us what religion a parent is.
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  #97  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:40 AM
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https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...f%3C%2Fspan%3E
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  #98  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:44 AM
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You may want to register. Few will click a link from an unregistered poster.
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:28 AM
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You may want to register. Few will click a link from an unregistered poster.
Its nothing more than a document with the blanks filled in stating that some southern district in New York was granted permission to file a law suit to get full disclosure in regards to vaccines. According to Google (double checked if it was actually valid via Pinterest ) this same document was voluntarily dismissed. (see pic below)

The document also appears on several other sites but the info (the fill in the blanks) say something relevant to that state/issue so bottom line; the link is just a standard form letter type document.
NO idea why unregisted even posted it.
It has NO relevance to us (child care providers/business owners)
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Its nothing more than a document with the blanks filled in stating that some southern district in New York was granted permission to file a law suit to get full disclosure in regards to vaccines. According to Google (double checked if it was actually valid via Pinterest ) this same document was voluntarily dismissed. (see pic below)

The document also appears on several other sites but the info (the fill in the blanks) say something relevant to that state/issue so bottom line; the link is just a standard form letter type document.
NO idea why unregisted even posted it.
It has NO relevance to us (child care providers/business owners)
Thanks

I get the immunization topic is important to parents, I just feel they put too much of the drama of it on us when we have no power in this discussion.

It is like arguing the effectiveness of waste water treatment regulations and tap water purity with your plumber.
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