I am soo frustrated..I have a DCM who is a coach for college, and her hours change every semister depending on what sport is being played. This is my PT DCM that is paying my full day rate of $35/day even though the baby is only here 4 -5 depending on the day. She is a great person, pays ontime, never challanges my policies, bakes me cookies, is very understanding of any emergency time I need off with short notice, etc. the perfect type of parent.

However, her first semister, the baby was here t,th,fr from 1130-4, and the second semister, it was 9-130, m, th, fr. However, her hrs vary, sometime she drops off at 730am and picks up at 12, or drops off at 9 and picks up at 1..it's never the same!!

The problem is that, I had a tooth break on me over the weekend, and I had to get in to see the dentist on mon. I "assumed" I would be calling the dentist asking him to get me in after 130 on mon. Sun she tells me she needs me from 1130-4! Totaly through my schedule out of wack! I also had 2 other appts for mon after 130, because she has been picking up anywhere between 12-130. I was soo mad! She didnt "ask" if this was ok, she merely told me she would be coming at 1130 on mon. So then I told her about my tooth, and basically because I could not get in to my dentist in the am, I had to go in the afternoon before my other 2 appts, and so I said I could not take the baby on mon. I asked her what her hrs will be on thurs, and she said 9-130! I am so confused and I didnt not even talk to her on sun or mon about the hrs, because I was so upset I didnt want to say something I would regret later.

So now her hrs will be changing again in January...I dont how how to handle this anymore. How can I make appy for my off time when everyday her hrs will be different? How can I even get another child when her days also change per semister? And she said there are 2 wks in the coming semister, she will need me all 5 days instead of 3..

I dont know what to say about mon, or her hrs, what should I do?

Reply

I can see why you're frustrated about not knowing her hours, and I broke a tooth last week too BUT, isn't that why she's paying for the full time spot? Unless I'm misunderstanding your agreement with her, it seems she's paying full time b/c of her changing schedule, and this way she is guaranteed the hours she needs? She is paying the full time rate so you don't need to get another child to make up for the times when her child is not there.
I would guess she gives her athletes a schedule of practices at the beginning of each sports season, maybe you could ask for one of those, or at least ask for a minimum amount of notice for schedule changes?
Hope your tooth feels better!

Reply

I don't have any advice how you could possibly get more kids with her crazy schedule, but she needs to pick the hours she needs and give you a schedule in advance, so you can make (and keep!) your appts. If I'm understanding correctly, her schedule changes? It's not just her deciding at the last minute to stay home or go to work? She should know in advance what she will be working. Have her give you a schedule of hours that she needs at least a week in advance. If she doesn't have a schedule (she picks her own hours) tell her she MUST pick her hours and let you know a week in advance. That's just crazy never knowing what time she'll be dropping off or picking up! That would drive me batty!

Reply

I have to agree with momofsix. She is paying for a full slot so you have to assume she could use the full slot if she wanted. I know it's maddening to not know the schedule in advance but I think the way she is paying she has some leeway. I would tell her that you would like her schedule a week in advance, and that you will tell her if you are not available because of appts as a courtesy. It has to go both ways I think.

Reply

I can see how it would be frustrating, but it sounds like she is paying for a full-time spot so that she can have her schedule change without worrying about whether you can accomodate her. I don't think it would be out of line, though, to ask her to please give you some kind of an idea of what hours she will need at least a few days in advance.

I have a son who is a college athlete and his schedule with the team changes constantly due to several factors including class and finals schedules, the coach's recruiting schedule, etc. so I can see why she has such a crazy schedule, it's not like a normal 9-5 job.

Reply

UGH I know how you feel but my dcg hours are all screwy cause her parents are all screwy. Make an appt to see a nice "medication" doctor and get some good pills. LOL Im THIS close to doing that as I dont know how else to handle my crazies either.

Reply

No she is not paying a full time spot. I charge by the day, no matter how many hrs they are here, 4 or 10, and she is contracted for 3 days a wk. Her hrs are crazy..sometimes I get a text at 1030at night telling me what time she will be here..She hardly knows from one day to the next.

I dont think she can possible think because I charge by the day, that I should be at her beck and call. She did sign a contract and pur hrs on there which they are supposed to be most of the time, but the most of the time hrs, change anyway. So for example, if she put on the contract drop off will be 630am and pick up will be 12pm, what happens is she will text me on sundat night and say she will need me from 9am-1pm instead. So I cant really go by what hrs shje put on the contract.

Last week she told me on wed that she needs me fri 9-130. I already had a appt scheduled for 230. She tells me at 130, that she is picking up at 2 instead. I told her I couldnt that I had a appt 45 min away, and she showed up at 2pm anyway and said she didnt get the text till 155...I had to resch my appt at the last minute..and not only that but the baby was packed up with his snowsuit, in his carrier, ready to go at 130! he had to sit like that for 30 minutes!

See, if she was paying for 5 days and using 3, I know I couldnt fit in another kid, because those would be her days, but her days change per semister, its not always m, th fri, or t, th, fri, and I have a dcg here on t,wed, so I cant really rent out my 2nd spot on tues, in case she needs it next semister..or I would have to charge her the ft rate of 175 to save it for her.

And if she is picking up at 130 everyday, I could still get an afternoon kid from 130-530...so it does mess me as far as squeezing in other kids too.

I told her I need to talk to her on Thurs about her schedule, but I dont know what to say...

Reply

Is 35 dollars a day the cost of one fifth of your full time rate meaning your full time rate is 35 x 5 = 175. Is your full time rate 175 per week?

Of is 35 dollars a week the daily rate you charge per day for part time people?

I'm confused

If you are charging a part time daily rate that is higher than your daily full time rate then you have to make sure that rate compensates you for whatever level of flexibility you are giving them.

If they are fixed days then the rate is lower than if they basically get to pick three days of the five and come any time they want. The more flexibility you give the higher the daily rate.

The time needs to be set also... she can use any of the hours within X to X for that fee. If she comes great... if not then great.

Reply

I would personally charge any family with a schedule that difficult the full week rate...that way it isn't my problem how much it changes because ALL the space is theirs and I am not stressing about it...the varying schedule is HER problem NOT yours so I would do full time rate and let her sort out the rest.....As far as appointments go, I have a substitute that comes in for anything I can't schedule before or after childcare hours or on weekends.

Reply

I charge $35/day weather they are PT or FT. If she was FT, it would amount to $175/wk. She comes 3 days for $105/wk

Now I'm confused...Are you saying I should be charging more per day for her because she needs so much flexability?

She knows I'm open from 630-430..However she is the only client I have on M, Th, F, so I make all my appts for after 130pm, because I basically close when she leaves.

Reply

Yes I charge 25 percent more per day for part time kids.

I would raise her rates per day 25 percent and then lock her into a full day time frame AND exact days at least every semester.

Give her a max hours per day she can use in that and an exact pick up time maximum. She can come m w f from eight am to five p.m. or something like that. Whatever hours within that she comes she comes. Anything before or after is overtime.

It sounds like she just gets to do drop in care for a fixed amount a week. Drop in care is EXPENSIVE. If she wants carte blance to your services at any time of any day then she just needs to pay full time and come within your contract hours.

Reply

If she pays always on time, never complains, and is paying for a full time slot I would deal with the hours. I know it is an incovenience but for me it would be worth it if I had no other probs. Not too many will pay full rate for pt.

Reply

she's not paying full time. She's paying for three days at the rate a full time kid would pay daily. If the provider charged one hundred dollars a week which is twenty dollars a day this client would be paying sixty dollars a week for three days.

Not a good rate for part time.
HORRIBLE rate for part time drop in care on whatever schedule she pleases.

Reply

I have crazy schedules like this too, and yes, it's annoying. Especially when you want to do something special with the kids but can't because you're not sure when/if one particular kid will show up!

The only way I've been able to deal with it is to just assume that the child will be there from open til close. If you charge by the day, then you won't be losing any money on the child's scheduled days. Be upfront with the mom and tell her she needs to have specific contracted days, and that you either need to be free to use the leftover days for drop-ins (or for another perm. p/t), or she needs to pay for 5 days/week. If she chooses not to pay f/t, you can reassess the contracted days when her schedule changes again, and see if you have an available spot for her new schedule. If not, she's out of luck. This is the only way I've been able to cope with crazy schedules (both mentally and financially!).

For appointments, schedule them when you have the least amount of kids, and just let the parents know in advance which days you'll be closing early or that you'll have a back-up watching the kids while you're away.

Good luck. I feel your frustration!

Reply

I would tell her she needs to give you her hours in advance. Does she not know what time games/practices are? Is there that much of a variation? Then if she does not give you the times you should let her know that you plan appts outside of her contracted hours & if she is not sticking with them she needs to notify you ahead of time (like at least a week or 2). What a pain to deal with.

Reply

I don't mind working for only 4-5 hrs and getting the $35 which would be like $7-8/hr..That part is good money, and I don't think I could get away with charging her more. I also would not want the baby here all day from 630am-430pm for $35 either. LOL Those are my normal hours I am open so I dont want her to think she could use any of those hrs when she is only contracted 4/5 hrs/day anyway.

I guess the part that really is bugging me is that she thinks she can come anytime during the day on her contracted days without asking if it is ok or if I am available, when it is outside of her hrs that she wrote on her contract, even though I dont have contracted hrs. I have lots of appts, because I have many different medical issues and 1 DS has a ortho appt every month, and the other DS has piano, and appts, and I am finding it hard to make appts and tehn be able to keep them because she changes her hrs at the last minute. Not only is she a coach, but she recently added another job at the mall on weekends, and that is where she was suppose to work on monday with those goofy hrs 1130-530 because she didnt have to work at her coaching job that monday for whatever the reason...

I was thinking of telling her because of all the medical appts I have right now, that I can only do days that he is picked up by 130, and any day that she needs me for beyond those hrs, would be available only if I was able to, because I cant wait for her schedules to make appts, as some of my appts are made 3wks in advance. How would that sound? Would that be bad?

Reply

$***/XX hrs per week. If she uses them in 2 days, oh well. Simplest way. If she doesn't use them all, oh well.

I agree with you, $35/day for 4-5 hrs is great, but if she thinks she can use 8-10 hrs/day then you're working for free.

I'd just say you have this many hours for the week, at this amount. so 15 hours for $105/wk. Go over that it's overtime. You have other families and you could simply just fill that spot with a fulltimer.

Also tell her she cannot alter the hours without 48 hrs notice, and your approval. I mean if you have appointments scheduled around her hours, and then she goes and changes it, now you have to change your schedule again. Book the time and stick with it.

Reply

I got rid of variable hours by demanding that every child is here by 9am and doesn't get picked up until 3pm. I still allow drop-in for SA but they have to follow the same schedule. I allow part time but the have to be full days. So in your case I would have the baby from 9 am until pick up 3 days a week. It allows us to stay on schedule and the kids respond to schedules much easier than chaos. I take personal days for medical appointments. In your case I would probably tell her in advance as to what days she could not leave him past 1:30pm.

Reply

Oh, sorry about that, I misunderstood. i would just be honest with her. Tell her you need to be able to schedule appointments and you count on her coming when she says she will. maybe she needs to redo her contracted hours? she should at least be able to give you a weeks heads up on any changes. Then if you know there are days when you will have appointments you can let her know that too. I feel your frustration!

Reply

So she gave me her new schedule, and its even worse now then it was before..ck this out her days have changed again!

January
mondays times unknown, wednesdays 9-2, thursdays times unknown

Feb
1st wk- wed & thurs time unknown
2nd wk-m-f 630-1230
3rd wk mon, wed, thurs time unknown
4th wk-winter break off

This is where is gets really werid:
March
1 wk tues maybe wed& thurs 630-1230 fri maybe (doesnt even know if she will need me or not???
2nd wk- m-th 630-4
3rd wk- m, tues maybe, wed-& thurs time unknown fri maybe
4th wk-mon- time unknown, tues 1-4, wed time unknown, thurs 1-4, fri time unknown
5th wk-mon time unknown, tues- maybe, wed & thurs time unknown

WTH? How can I plan anything with a wacko schedule like this? I cant even advertise for another kid because everything is always changing! She doesnt know the times of the days because she hasnt gotten her schedule yet, and the days which are maybes is because she doesnt have her schedule yet and she doesnt know what kind of weather they will have so doesnt know if she will have to coach or not!

Now you see how crazy her schedule is!! What do I do? I need to tell her something by mon, as I am off this week.

Reply

I had to laugh at the part where you say "this is where it gets really weird" because what you have above that was already really weird to me!!!

Any chance you can replace this family with another one with a more regular schedule? That's the only advice I can think of. You are right, you can't get any other family in there with hours/days like that.

Reply

Wow!! There is just no sane way to do that... I am very happy with my set operational hours, one-drop-off/one pick-up per family/per day and no drop off after 10am policies. I don't know how you get any free time doing it.....

Wishing you luck..... Hopefully she will get her ducks in a row, fast!!!! You deserve more consideration than that.

Reply

I would tell her, I realize for you, your schedule is part time. However, it prevents me from taking another child to fill the other days/hours. So, therefore you are actually taking a full time spot on my end.

A full time spot is $$$ per week. However, since you won't be using me everyday, every week, I'll be happy to knock of the cost of 1 day per week.

If that doesn't work for you, I'm going to have to give you notice and fill the spot with a full time child. I hope you understand, I need a steady income, just as you do.

Reply

I would make sure she pays for a fulltime spot, or find another fulltimer!! If you have to be open everyday with that schedule, she has to pay for it!

Reply

I understand that she may not get her schedule until late...but it really does affect me..How do you think other dcps would handle this? How would a center handle this? Some days I only have the baby for 3/hrs, yet I am still getting my full $35/day, so that is a plus for me. I dont want to say he must be here from 9-3, because hek, if I can get my full days pay for 3/hrs, who would want him him for 6?

My biggest issue is that I cannot advertise my open days that she does not use, because it changes by the month and its really hard to make appts! I was thinking of telling her she is going to have to pay the FT rate $175/wk, but is that really fair if she only needs me for 15/hrs 1 week and 24/hrs the next week? Or should i switch her over to an hrly of $8/hr? Thats good with the weeks that require more hrs, but it would suck the weeks that he is here 12! I also thought of maybe doing a variable schedule rate where she would pay more per day because of her schedule, like instead of $35/day make it $40 or $45/day...but that might scare her away too..I also dont want to bbe put in teh situation where I say ok you have to pay FT rate for m-f and then she brings him anyway just to get her moneys worth, because right now with her schedule, I get fridays off and my other pt girl is here only on tues/wed.

I am sooo confused! She is a great client and NEVER balks at my policies and pays me all my vaca days holidays etc, so its also the type of client we wish for, but not with this scheduling problem!!

Any other thoughts?

Reply

Maybe say... "For any days that I am to provide care, but you do not know the hours at least one week in advance, then those "unknown" days I will charge more (insert amount $___)" Does that make sense? I know what I'm trying to say at least... haha

Reply

I would tell her you don't have the availability for that varied of hours. Tell her since she has no idea when, if, or for how long she will be using a slot the only way you would be able to insure another child didn't take the slot is to charge her full time.

Reply

Okay, just for the fun of it I called our local YMCA childcare center and a well-known child care center chain and asked them what their rates would be for a schedule like the one you listed......BOTH places said that if a definite schedule could not be given with exact time for d/o and p/u then the full time rate would be charged...which at both places was a full week rate. One place said if times could be given and I went over given times or used more that I would be charged a "over time" or "additional fee" for that time which amounted to like double the normal part-time rates. BOTH places suggested I either pay the full week rate to ensure availability of space or to hire an individual who is capable of being flexible; such as a nanny.

So I am wondering why you don't just charge her the full time rate. Make your appointments as necessary; let her know in advance when your appointments are and stick to it. For example if you have an appoinment on Thursday at 3 tell her. If she comes late or disregards any time you tell her you need to leave or be gone then term her like any other family who disregarded your policies.

I also asked 3 provider's in my area and they said same thing.....full week rate. NOT anyone's problem except the mom's that HER schedule is sooooo wacky.

Reply

If you like having the Fridays off, why not contract her for Monday to Thursday at a set rate for a specific number of hours/day (anything above would be overtime), and then offer a higher drop-in rate if/when she does need you on a Friday?

Reply

I must say that it seems like a lot of trouble to me. The way I do it is like this: I figured out what I wanted to charge weekly for a full-timer up to 50 hours a week and set that as my base pay. I then figured out my PT rate up to 29 hours) by increasing the fee a bit. Drop-ins pay an even higher rate ... so in essence the less they stay the more they pay, this helps make up for not being able to fill in the gaps that pt's leave.

For children with variable hours I usually I require the childs schedule in writing two weeks in advance but I do have a DCM that doesn't know what her schedule will be like (she's a tiler) and so she pays a higher rate ($20 a week more) than other FT families for the inconvenience of having to always leave an entire slot open all of the time. This extra fee guarantees that her child will always have a slot reserved for him no matter what time he gets dropped off or picked up (but never longer than 10 hours a day).

Reply

My goal was to get $350 wk from either 2 FT famlies, or several PT famlies. Before, I had a FT which I had to terminate In Nov and my 2 PT famlies. All was well but when I termed my FT family, it opened up a slot, and now is how I realize what a mess this is. I cant tell someone else well you can come m, t, th & fri this month, but next month you have to change your hrs at work...I know this will not work..

I was thinking of telling her she must go to FT rate of $175/wk or the other option is she will have pick 3 days that she will come to me and if she needs me on one or 2 of the other days, it will be available to her only based on my availibility, or she can get a 2nd sitter to do the other 2 days as needed, but in any event, sh ewill still need to pay me for 3 days even if she has to come to me for 2 days and her other sitter for one day. The other thought was to contract her for 3 days will the most common time like 630-1230, and if she needs to stay later like until 2 like some of her days are, there will be a charge of $5/hr and if she needs to drop off later like those days that she only needs me 1-4, she will have to pay her normal rate of 35/day plus the $5/hr charge, so it would be like $50/day for her that those days...I just dont know what else to do at this point. Then if she wants to leave, she can leave, but I just cant live with a schedule like this without extra money for it.

Reply

This sounds like a great way to do it to me. She would pay whatever rate you establish for the 4 days...that would be a regular amount of $ to count on weekly ($140 if you stuck to your $35/day,) and you could schedule your appointments for Fridays.

Reply

so would I let her come any hrs she needed on mon-thurs? like either the 630-1230, 9-2, 1-4, 630-4 etc?

And what would be a good drop in amount on fridays?

My husband is telling me to just term her..says its way too complicated to worry about it and he just got a $500/mon raise and I shouldnt even do it anymore..He wants me to focus more on him and our kids especially with summer coming..he says I wont be able to go anywhere with our kids all summer with her wacky schedule..

Before I did daycare, I did all the laundry, ironed all his clothes, made his lunches, picked up all the kids from school, did all the errends, made fabulous meals, and he feels I dont do all this stuff anymore because I dont have the time or the energy..

Now I'm even more confused...

Reply

[quote=legomom922;67177]so would I let her come any hrs she needed on mon-thurs? like either the 630-1230, 9-2, 1-4, 630-4 etc? [/code] Yes, up to a certain number of hours, whatever you decide that is.
And what would be a good drop in amount on fridays? whatever would make it worth it for YOU to give up your day off
My husband is telling me to just term her..says its way too complicated to worry about it and he just got a $500/mon raise and I shouldnt even do it anymore..He wants me to focus more on him and our kids especially with summer coming..he says I wont be able to go anywhere with our kids all summer with her wacky schedule..

Before I did daycare, I did all the laundry, ironed all his clothes, made his lunches, picked up all the kids from school, did all the errends, made fabulous meals, and he feels I dont do all this stuff anymore because I dont have the time or the energy..

Now I'm even more confused... [b]Wow...with a raise like that it gives you a lot more freedom, if you both decide it's better for you to quit, that would be awesome if that's what you want to do! QUOTE]

Reply

I suppose I could tell her she will have to pay FT rate of $175 or I quit..

Reply

That's what I would do!! Seems like if she takes you up on that then it is worth it but if she doesn't .....bye-bye....not worth the hassle since you shouldn't have to worry about such a screwy schedule...it's HER schedule NOT yours to stress over. Awesome that you have such a wonderfully supportive husband too! Sometimes they make alot of sense......

Reply

I wrote up a letter and just put it on the main board. Tell me how it sounds or help me tweek it so it sounds right. I dont want to sound harsh, because they are really good people!!

Reply