I have recently watched Forks Over Knives and I have decided to just adopt a plant based way of eating. ( no meat , dairy.. nothing with a face or a mother etc.)

I feel fine and I have lost 8 lbs. in a week... I drink massive amounts of water and eat Tofu for protein.

I have received so much negative comments from my family and friends. " You won't get enough protein" how are you going to get enough calcium?" "You are going to get yourself sick." "you need cholesterol" ... and on and on

I am so confused... everything I have read and heard tells me that I am doing right but people want to blame every sneeze. yawn, or tired feeling on this diet.
I was always tired before this and was anemic before this diet.. but I love this way of eating! What should I tell my family/friends?

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If it was me I would just tell those that have "issues" with it very little. We eat a whole food organic diet with no processed foods and I hear it all the time. We only eat meat 1-2 times we week and you would think it was child abuse for some people!! I just don't say much and I pack stuff for us to eat if I don't think there will be options we can work around.

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People are anti anything that they don't understand. TRUST ME. Dh and I were your average once a week McDonald's eating, overweight, high blood pressure and high cholesterol americans until 2 years ago. Dh has lost 45lbs of fat (and gained back quite a bit as muscle) and I lost 60lbs. We are now considered 'health nuts/fanatics/freaks' by everyone in our families.

How? We just changed what we put into our bodies. For us, it was dh's dr report of needing BP meds and cholesterol meds and that he was pre type 2 diabetic. I started walking everyday with dh and the kids, then did the couch to 5k, ran a few 5ks and half marathons, and last year started heavy weights 5x/week. Dh does a LOT of cycling and races and has been doing an intense body building regime for 18months or so now.


My dh was vegan, and an amateur bodybuilder. (He is now vegetarian, no reason other than he really loves dairy!) His protein requirements are RIDICULOUS and he manages with just plant based protein and protein supplements (shakes).

Do you take a multivitamin daily? There's all of your calcium needs.

As far as cholesterol is concerned:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/26...d-cholesterol/

The heck with the haters, GOOD FOR YOU! You did something AMAZING for yourself. Be happy when you feel better, look better and have SOOOO much more energy than you ever have!

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Better to be a HEALTHY health nut/fanatic/freak rather than an unhealthy "normal" person. Our society's dietary habits are SO out of whack!!

Let your results speak for you. Why should you have to defend yourself? They aren't defending their bad choices, I am assuming. If you do it the right way, you have nothing to worry about! Just get your supplements in and eat a huge variety of food and you will be good! Nuts, quinoa, etc...

But, some people will never get it. Some will just be jealous. Expect this and you will be fine.

My in-laws always tease me about my eating habits, but guess who is the only one with all of her numbers in a healthy range. They are all diabetic or pre-diabetic.

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Losing 8lbs in one week is pretty extreme. I would be terribly concerned about that no matter how bad your eating habits were before.

Did you consult your doctor and the kids' pediatrician before starting this new way of eating?


Being anemic isn't something to play around with. Now that you've cut out meats you do need to not only find a way to make up for the deficit your new diet has created but the deficits your body was suffering from even when it was a part of your diet.

Is say consult doc, consult a nutritionist to go over what you will be eating what what you may need to supplement with, and then tell any well intentioned family and friends that you're taking the necessary precautions to keep your family healthy.

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I wouldn't personally use tofu or anything soy based as a primary protein source as high soy consumption is linked to endocrine issues and too high levels of estrogen. And if I were you I would stick with organic tofu, which is at least less likely to be directly GMO (genetically modified). But beyond that, your body your choice.

I think everyone needs to eat in whatever way makes them healthy and feel good. Sure there are philosophical arguments on all sides, but what it comes down to is that each person has different requirements; nothing is one size fits all.

Good luck!

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I agree on the tofu--I have been a vegetarian for a long time and have never really eaten tofu. I just think it is nasty.

Don't just jump in blindly obviously, do your research, read a lot of books, talk to a like-minded doctor, take nutrition classes, etc. Whatever it takes to do it right!

8 lbs is not too much depending on how much you currently weigh.

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As far as the anemia goes, most people eating a traditional American diet are starving on a macronutrient level. That's why their bodies tell them to continue to eat, and therefor, over eat.

I was ferrous sulfate and ferrous gluconate for anemia everyday along with 1mg of folic acid, all were 'prescription strength'. I no longer need those and now only take a prenatal (they're really good for your hair/nails!)

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wow! thanks guys!
A lot to think about and read about.

I am so excited about this and I really don't miss meat or milk ... especially chicken on the bone! I have 32 more lbs to go but I am sticking with this for life... not just a diet to lose weight.

So I guess I am a vegan?
vegetarians consume dairy but vegans don't?

as far as being anemic... it's just one of those things that I think is better than eating animals that can cause cancer (according to Forks over Knives) and being overweight (in my case) not saying anything about others...
I take iron pills and multi vitamins but I am always exhausted ... and I was before this ...

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have you ever tried to "fry" tofu with Pam?
If you get the really firm Tofu.... it's really good this way, with a little seasoning.

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Vegans don't consume or use any animal products or byproducts.....meaning your Pam spray, soaps, leather, cosmetics, butter etc.

I think it's hilarious that people watch one tv show and that's enough research to declare meat causes cancer lol. I get the ethical reasons you're shooting for this Michelle but biologically our bodies were designed to eat meat. Would be like saying cows can get cancer from pasture grass......

The origins and any artificial influences can play a role in whether what we are designed to eat can harm us but on a very basic and pure level, that would never be the source of something like cancer.



Silver, way back when was it you I was talking about GMO with? I got the opportunity to discuss the topic with a top biological engineer with Cargill Corp....picked his brain on it ALL. What he shared made a lot of sense if you're like me and always thirsty for more information

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I need your dh to talk to my dh!
My dh will demand 4 egg omelets every morning and If he can't get it here( he doesn't) he will go to a resaturant and get it most of the time! He puts maynaise in his spagetti to make it taste better! and he HAS to have cheeseburgers almost every night! I can't stand it anymore... I am so worried about his health I beg him to play tennis with me, walk, anything... and he says that working in the daycare is enough exercise for him every day

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wow! tofu is genetically modified?
jeez! I had no idea.. on the package it says soybeans and water

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didn't know Pam was an animal byproduct...
I am not giving up soap!!!
I guess I will just not use any labels as to what I am eating... just love the results so far...
Also, I didn't just watch a TV show and that's it... I did the research too.
Obviously I have a lot more to learn

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Not all Pam products I'm sure, but watch your ingredients. Several contain animal fats.

Same with soap. Plenty are vegan, but many are not.


If cancer is a concern of yours avoid products like Pam just on the basis of it being super unnatural and very processed. A drizzle of olive or grapeseed oil will work just as well

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ok
Thank you
What about coconut oil?

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Ha! On the advice of my yoga detox lady I threw that one in my cart a few months ago. It's supposed to be good for you in many ways but I've heard it burns hotter than other oils which means more splatters and potential for fire while cooking. You'd have to confirm that for yourself as I never looked it up but I've largely stuck to my EVOO and grapeseed for baking and frying.

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Michelle, I wish I could talk to my dh about anything OTHER than health and fitness!

As we speak he is asking "When are we hitting the weights." "It's leg day. Can't skip leg day!"

We do it together, and it's definitely kept us both on course, but maybe your husband will see your results and join you. I wouldn't push him. It's a decision that everyone has to make on their own.

TRUST ME, the energy levels improve. I used to be SO TIRED after a 12 hour work day that I would order a pizza and fall asleep waiting for it. Now I am up at 4:30 to work out, work 12 hours and take my kids to the playground or for a bike ride, or just a walk after dinner.

Dh was a fast food JUNKIE and he even cooks now, since he sees the health benefits! Tonight he made grilled chicken, sweet potatoes and grilled zucchini and yellow squash.

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Ater I lost 80 lbs in the last year, my husband jumped on board and has lost 40.

As a result I'm not hypertensive anymore. I don't need insulin anymore. Which is weird because I have been diabetic since I was a teenager and not overweight at that point. I have to stay on cholesterol meds because I have familial high cholesterol and I've been on meds since I was 12 for that. As a result to cut my heart risk of high cholesterol I also still have to take a small dose of blood pressure medicine but its not for high blood pressure in my case.

My husband went from 28 units of levemir insulin a day to THREE units a day right now and also is anticipated to be able to get off of it in the next six months.

He was total against the thought he needed to lose weir. And he didn't need to lose much. That extra thirty pounds made him diabetic. That was all it took.

Once he saw my results he FLEW on board.

Michelle, hopefully your husband will see the positive and make some changes too,

My husband thought it took drastic changes. But he found out it didn't.

We don't eat out though and rarely fry anything at all. We never have.

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No matter what way you eat you'll get the comments so I've learned not to tell people.

That said, have you checked with a doctor about the anemia? I had a severe case. So much so that I had to beg the doctor not to make me go to the ER one day. My other doctor said to call my gynecologist and make an appointment for the next day and to call her back to tell her I made it. Whoa, never had that happen. Turns out it was fibroids making my periods really heavy. Anemia is nothing to fool around with....seriously. Please see a doctor for that if you already haven't.

Just the anemia will make you really, really tired.

Laurel

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So where does everyone find their receipes to make all their meals?

I need something for all three meals and snacks. I can't just throw something together. I have to have something in mind the week before so that I can make a list for the grocery store.

This is one reason I have trouble putting things together-ideas and time. I seriously am not a mulit tasker so I can't be doing something and trying to make dinner at the same time. I have to strictly be focusing on one thing at a time so preparing thing while I have kids here throws me over the edge. I pretty much have to wait till I am totally done with daycare for the day.

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Most soybeans in this country are GMO...at least that what the Millions against Monsato report I get on Facebook each day just posted. Look fo a tofu with the non-GMO label.

I have been a Vegetarian most my adult life...a year as a vegan, don't want to do that again, but never say never!

You can easily get non GMO soy milk, but yes there is the plant based estrogen issue to consider.

Just read a lot and ask lots of ?'s.... You will be fine!!!?

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Start small! Don't feel like you have to do it all at once, I think it would be too overwhelming. Right now, you could even just focus on being vegetarian (unless you really have ethical reason for being vegan). Get that down first and then try the vegan thing. Next you could worry about organic and non-GMO food. Even if this takes a year or longer, there is no rush to be "perfect" (whatever that means, because there are so many conflicting opinions about nutrition.)

For me, I know I am not getting enough protein right now, but I am trying to focus on cutting out sugar. One step at a time. I have really struggled since opening my daycare, I have had periods of mild depression and I have eaten A LOT of sugar during this time! It has fueled my day, unfortunately.

Anyway, I have been doing a lot of juicing and smoothies. I bought some Dynamic Greens, Standard Process vitamins (not vegan), flax oil, chia seeds, apple cider vinegar... I have been trying to clean myself out. Although some experts say our bodies cleanse ourselves I have been feeling sluggish and these things seem to help with that. Chia seeds are fabulous for energy!

Oh, and nutritional yeast is YUMMY! Like I said, I am not vegan, but I am trying to curb my feta cheese addiction, so I have been putting nutritional yeast on my salads and it is good!

I am trying to think of more, but I am tired from today. I had my "high-energy" dcb today.

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Good for you! Just listen to your body and your doctor. Obviously you are doing well, since you feel good and have lost weight. Don't worry about what friends and family say. Anytime one does something different from mainstream, they are bound to hear some kind of flack about it.
Thankfully, there is a lot of information about the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. Have fun doing your research!

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I also wanted to mention... Fatigue is not only caused by anemia but also from an under active thyroid. If yu haven't already gotten at checked, I would get that done ASAP and while you are at it, a complete baseline work up.

That way you are sure that you are staying healthy while changing your diet.

Over the last year, my stomach has shrunk to the point I have to now FORCE myself to eat.

When I had my every three month complete work ups done last time (I get monthly blood work but not everything but every three months). Anyway, on my last two, its showing my body is malnourished.

Kind of funny considering I've been overweight my entire life only now to be malnourished but not underweight or even near it.

I find myself skipping meals for more than a day at times, never realizing I forgot to eat until I finally get hungry. Sometimes if you ask me the last time I ate, I wouldn't even know.

Since my doc jumped my case lol I've been trying to do better.

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35 years of being a strict vegan and I'm healthy as a horse

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Coconut oil is amazing-use it in candymaking for raw-ish desserts, as a diaper cream-safe for cloth diapers, it has a gazillion uses.. there's lists online. I was a vegetarian for 5 years and when I was diagnosed with gluten and lactose intolerance, amongst others, like corn, went vegan for a few months. I gave up a lot of the phytic acid stuff like beans and soy as well. There's not a lot to eat as a vegan who can't have wheat, corn, beans, or soy, and as a vegan, am not eating any eggs or dairy. I definitely believe a plant filled diet is beneficial, but personally for myself, due to my food sensitivities, am not able to eat like I once did. I actually eat healthier now though. I made the switch to paleo about 4 months ago & dropped 30 lbs. We use organic, grassfed meats and strive for local stuff. The only sugars I use are raw local honey and maple syrup. I don't eat stuff from a box..i.e. nothing processed, and I eat zero grains. I had a bad reaction when I tried to add rice back into my diet. I'm still experimenting with what I can & can't have, like having the occasional piece of chocolate w/ cane sugar in it, but AI make sure every bite counts & strive for a higher quality of fuel for my body while making sure it tastes good. I'm a former chef & my husband is also a fantastic chef/aspiring culinary student, so we like to cook ehre, which helps. If you need recipes, try postpunkkitchen, herbivoracious, and tastespotting. You can search tastespotting by ingredient or type of dish you want, like pasta, eggplant, etc. It's my fave food **** site. Above all- you know your own body; it'll take a bit to work out th adjustment to your status quo, but stick with it & good luck!

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I have found a lot of older generations (and mindsets) have the hardest time understanding it.

My brother and two cousins (one vegan & the rest of us organic/health minded) we're having a conversation with my step-mother (who is the ultimate example of 90's dated health advice ,i.e. believes skim milk is best, diet versions of everything, and doesn't buy organic AT ALL), just couldn't understand why my cousin would be Vegan. The other cousins and I, although not vegan, believe that is most definitely a healthier option. The milk discussion was our biggest issue, the younger kids who all drink almond milk and my step-mother who was trying to sell us on non-organic skim milk because it is good for you.

Personally, I go back and forth on the vegetarianism. I have never tried to go vegan, although I wish I was. Right now, I eat meat (not including fish) 2x a week , and all the rest of my diet is plant based - with a little dairy (i.e. feta cheese, and lemon on my asparagus). I really think that the main cause of health issues in our society, are chemicals/preservatives, GMOs, and the proportions of grains/sugars that we consume. I think anything that is done to correct/limit those, is a good decision.

If you are looking for literature, Kathy Freeston's "Veganist", Food Revolution, and Skinny B**** are great resources. I have read all 3, and incorporated advice even if I don't follow them strictly.

My favorite, most simple, advice is from In Defense of Food,

Eat REAL food, not too much, mostly plants.

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It's tough telling friends no to the beer or deserts. They want you to enjoy the bad stuff with them. They all take medications for one thing or another. Stay strong.

I've tried a lot of different diets over the years. As we age our bodies and needs change. I think everyone has to find what works for them. I've gone gluten free, also no sugar, corn or coffee except on Sunday. Never fast food or junk foods. I eat mostly raw now. Also use raw coconut butter as much as I can. It detoxes and tastes good in my tea. Lost 20lbs in the last few months. I also make sure I try to go to the gym a few times a week. I find I don't crave any of those bad foods any more.

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If you ever go on Pinterest search "Paleo" or "Clean eating" recipes.

There are loooooooads.

You'd be surprised at just how easy food prep can be when you learn to simplify it. May take a bit for your palate to adjust to not eating all the artificial flavors and preservatives but it does eventually.

I feel sick just smelling some boxed/bagged junk foods now because it comes off as so unnatural.

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Chia seeds are fiber on steroids.....use sparingly lol

Be careful with the ACV if your immune system is still detoxing. Many who are compromised have problems with systemic yeast, ACV can cause major flare ups that will cause a myriad of health issues. I get that that's a big go to lately but I've seen it make so many people very sick before they start to get better.

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YES !! I think food prep is so important when trying to eat a healthy or even just a specific diet.

When I don't grocery shop & food prep on Sunday, I usually have a bad week. Last night I was at the grocery store at 9:20, but I knew I would be off for the rest of the week if I didn't. With the hecticness of life, if I don't have my foods planned and ready at the beginning of the week, it just seems overwhelming and I wind up choosing something quickly.

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Oh, sure! Do your research first, but I do not have any health issues so I don't have to worry about things like that. Knock on wood!

LOL about the chia. I haven't had any issues but I only do a Tbsp. in my am smoothie.

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I put mine in a strawberry spread, there's maybe a couple of tablespoons in the whole jar....a smidge on my seed bread in the morning all I discovered I need. Similar effect for me as the Triphala I could only stand for a couple of weeks of before I had to get out of the bathroom because folding laundry on the toilet just wasn't sanitary.

They're fantastically powerful little buggers and one of my favorite health food finds so far

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I have wanted to try that but wasn't sure if it was actually any good... I will have to give it a try!

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Lots of stuff I didn't know!
thanks.. I will read and reread all of this!
My biggest concern is protein... if tofu is not a good source of protein .. what would you guys suggest is better?

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Tofu is a good source of protein, if you are buying organic. Most soy products are genetically modified, so that is the main argument against soy. Also, you can get a lot of protein from nuts & seeds. Also, beans are a good protein source.

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Iron pills are NOT a good source of iron It's actual metal iron, not very bioavailable. Dark green leafy things are a much better source. That could be part of the trouble. Fatigue can also be many other things, and honestly anemia can be linked to other things. Gluten intolerance is a big "hidden" cause.

Not sure if it was me...I don't remember, lol. I don't trust the GMO stuff in the slightest, but the sad reality is that most of the world's crops are contaminated with GMOs. It's in the air, the water, the soil...even ones that aren't supposed to be GMO are contaminated/will be soon.

But, meat doesn't cause cancer...the extra crap they put in it might though. Chickens are fed arsenic to make the meat pinker, the arsenic gets in their poop, rice fields are fertilized with chicken poo laced with arsenic, the arsenic gets into the rice....All the animals are fed MEGA strength antibiotics and other nasty things that end up laced through the meat and getting into the water supply....it's awful.

But, good, healthy, grass-fed pastured animals are FINE. And tastier. And healthier. And grass fed red meat *is* a good source of bioavailable iron.

Most non-Organic soy in the US is GMO. Along with non organic corn, and there's something else major that's GMo, but I forget.

For the cooking spray, Trader JOe's has a coconut oil cooking spray. If you're not philosophically vegan then you don't have to avoid soap (though most beauty products have nasty things in them you shouldn't put on your skin. But there are alternatives)

The problem with cooking with olive oil is that it's not supposed to be heated to a high temperature--it gets unstable. I've never heard of coconut oil or sunflower oil causing fires, and they are stable to much higher temperatures than olive oil. That doesn't mean they always REACH those temps though just that they are stable. It's called the "smoke point".

Coconut oil is very healthy to cook with. I use it for many things and keep sunflower oil on hand for things that I'm mixing that start off cold (like pancakes or whathaveyou) since Coconut oil is solid until 76 degrees.

Organic rice
Beans
legumes
nuts
seeds

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There are lots of nutrient dense foods with a decent protein content. Even meat eaters ought to vary their protein sources, and try some of these:

1. Vegetables - the proper foundation for all diets.
• 1 avocado - 10 grams
• 1 cup broccoli - 5 grams
• 1 cup spinach - 5 grams
• 2 cups cooked kale - 5 grams
• 1 cup boiled peas - 9 grams
• 1 cup cooked sweet potato - 5 grams

2. Legumes, also vegetables, get their own mention. Specifically lentils and beans, the foundation of many diets for centuries.
• 1 cup soybeans - 28 grams (1 cup tofu - 22 grams, 1 cup tempeh - 30 grams)
• 1 cup lentils - 18 grams
• 1 cup refried beans - 15.5 grams
• 1 cup garbanzo beans (and hummus) - 14.5 grams
• 1 cup pinto, kidney, black beans - 13-15 grams
• 1 oz peanuts - 6.5 grams

3. Nuts and seeds - a staple in most vegetarian and vegan diets.
• 1 oz. cashews - 4.4 grams
• 1 oz. sesame seeds 6.5 grams, 3 tablespoons of tahini - 8 grams
• 1/4 cup (2 oz.) walnuts - 5 grams
• 1 oz. pistachios - 5.8 grams
• 2 tbsp almonds - 4 grams
• Nut butters - peanut butter, almond butter, cashew butter - 2 tablespoons has about 8 grams of protein

4. Non-dairy milk - Soy, almond, ancient grain. 1 cup gets you 7-9 grams of protein.

5. Grains - Ancient grains, sprouted grains, multi-grains - a major part of the diet.
• Quinoa is versatile and delicious. 1 cup - 9 grams.
• Amaranth, bulgur, brown rice, wheat germ, oat bran are other grains with a high protein content.
• Seitan, or flavored wheat gluten, has about 52 grams per cup, but it may not be a good idea to eat a lot of it.
• Oatmeal - 1 cup = 6 grams.
• Sprouted grain bread products - buns, tortillas, bread. Pack a sandwich or a wrap and you'll get 7-10 grams from the bread alone.

6. Convenience foods: There are vegan protein powders and bars to fill in the gaps on the go. Hemp - 30 grams of hemp powder in your smoothie gives you 11 grams of protein.

7. Supplements - spirulina and chlorella are used often by vegetarians and vegans for their rich nutrient content, and protein content.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036270_ve...#ixzz2ZDTPgMqB

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MEAT


Kidding (but only kind of )

Think beans, legumes, quinoa, whole grains (not the cheap "wheat bread" you find in the grocery store....think steel cut oats, 12 grain bread etc), nuts and nut butters (almond butter tastes an awful lot like peanut butter but with way less sugar, my kids love the MaraNatha brand).

You can do artificial protein supplements but I strive to eat little to no artificial anything as possible. Why cut out grass fed/hormone/antibiotic free/free range beef but replace it with chemicals in a bottle labeled protein you know?

If I were you I'd research more and then make a trip to stock up on a good weeks worth of food. Cutting out meat and daily before you are fully prepared to replace those nutrients with other foods is going to leave your diet unbalanced. An unbalanced diet along with extreme weight loss (8 pounds in a week when you only need to lose 30 more to be at ideal weight is really way too much), can lead to permanent organ damage and even death if your vitamin/mineral and electrolyte intake gets too out of whack.

Please be careful!

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Ok thanks Willow
I will!
this has all been very helpful!

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Awesome!


I book marked that website and it is going to help a lot!
Thank you BC

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Thank you Silver
I have been putting fresh spinach in my salad every day... but I need variety for sure! I can't just eat oatmeal for breakfast, salad for lunch and salad for dinner... all together its probably 800 calories for the whole day and I didn't realize ...so O.K. thank you!! I really have learned a lot and I know I can do this! I tend to "self doctor" myself because I don't have medical insurance ...lol That iron pills not being bio available ... I had no idea or what it meant! lol

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Don't feel bad Most people don't know about this stuff. That you are willing to learn and accepting of new information puts you a leg WAY up on most of the country. Health and nutrition are a lot more complicated than "eat 3 squares meals a day according to the food pyramid"

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Try putting spinach or kale in smoothies. With sweet berries or pineapple you can barely taste it. I put 3-4 cups of spinach leaves in with some apple cider, strawberries, a banana and some pineapple and drink the pitcher throughout the day. I don't have the appetite to eat enough good food to get my calories most of the time but smoothies work well for me. I get 6-8 servings of fruit and veg per day from smoothies. I really notice my energy level change when I don't make them.

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I became vegetarian at 17 years old and I'm now 58. I didn't like meat eating as a kid (I love animals and didn't like getting an anatomy lesson with each bite of food!) I ate a lot of wheat-based products over the years and soy alternates. My main advice is to make sure you vary what you eat! Soy is so very processed and contains "protein inhibitors" so it's not really that healthy. I suppose if it's eaten as soy beans or sprouts it might still be OK, and Dr. Mercola says it's best to eat fermented soy products like tempeh and miso. Wheat products are really bad if you have a leaky gut, and I now have to avoid wheat and most gluten containing grains. Make vegetables the main thing you eat; limit sugars, and eat beans and small amounts of nuts for protein. We don't need a huge amount of protein anyway. And DON'T worry about what anyone thinks! You will be healthy! Seems like anyone that would complain about it doesn't have the nerve to change their lifestyle so they want others around them doing the same. So sad the way people are feeding a lot of the kids!

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I LOVE veggie & fruit smoothies!!!!

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What the heck kind of meats were you eating that you were getting an anatomy lesson with every bite of food??! Sorry but that just sounds straight up crazy to me unless you were eating like, whole prey (which is the way I feed my dogs, but I do get why humans eating like that wouldn't necessarily be appealing despite it being biologically appropriate)

I live to hunt, love meat AND love animals btw, the three are not synonymous



Eta - can you please explain what a "leaky gut" is? I thought such a condition was cause for immediate surgery as it can cause sepsis? As far as I'm aware if the gut is not self contained it WILL kill you?

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Do you ever find people can't understand how you can hunt AND love animals? I grew up in a MAJOR hunting/fishing household, some people always had a hard time "getting it"!

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Yes.

Mainly yuppie/city folks though so with them I just smile and nod and let them pretend they know everything about everything lol


Guarantee we spend more of our hard earned money on conservation efforts (many right here on our property), invest in far more conservation programs and own/spoil more animals than they do so they can kiss my patoot if they want to peg me as a non animal lover just because I respect what science says my body was designed to do and just plain enjoy a big juicy steak now and again

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For the record, I'm still on the fence but not at all anti GMO anymore.


If you've ever planted a squash too close to a pumpkin and ended up with a crossbred orange zucchini *that* would be considered genetically modified.


In other places in the world where food production is NOT as msinstreamed and available as it is in developed (and very well blessed) countries modifications like that can help grow produce where weather and soil conditions could otherwise make it impossible. I do believe Monsanto presented the idea is a very arrogant a**y way and that's what led to all of the opposition. People are generally skeptical of new concepts, and they think GMO is a new concept.

Really it's not though. It is something that can be done in our backyard gardens, and in nature completely unaided by itself.

Monsanto took that and started to utilize the concept on a broad scale, I think in the name of capitalism but in truth it does have the potential to save lives all over the world by feeding the masses in a way that couldn't be done before.


Do we know in 50 years if those people that consume exclusively GMO products will start growing an extra arm? Not definitively,
but what is the alternative? To just let them to continue to suffer and starve to death?

If you are blessed and have options, and are skeptical then fine, boycott the products....just remember the rest of the world doesn't have the advatanges and same options as we do and at least someone had come up with something to help them.

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You do have an excellent point regarding the language and term "GMO". However, I think that what Monsanto is doing is wrong, and is going to have far-reaching unintended negative consequences. Look at what happens when certain animals and plants are introduced to new areas for various reasons, and end up overtaking all the native flora and fauna and causing major problems. I think that Monsanto's GMO plants are in a similar vein. We do NOT understand genetics well enough to predict the untended consequenes of changing the very nature of a food product's genetic make-up. Zuchinni and Pumpkins (to use your example) can cross breed naturally because they are both squash, like horses and donkeys can naturally produce mules. But soy is not supposed to naturally have pesticide in it, and cow feed is not supposed to have antibiotics built in. That would never happen in nature, not in the Monsanto is doing it. He's playing God, and that's dangerous.

Just look at, for example, wheat. Modern wheat is a COMPLETELY different plant from what it was even 100 years ago. It's been changed beyond compare. And now, it has something in it called gliadin, which is a protein distinct from gluten, and is most likely the protein causing the widespread "gluten intolerance" that is a VERY real thing. Did they mean to cause such a big problem with the gliadin? No, of course not. But it happened. And it's having a far-reaching unitended consequence. The newer wheat is just simply not digestible by many people. What will show up in 5, 10, 20 years as a result of the GMO soy? The GMO corn? The GMO whatever else? How will it grow and change as a result of interactions with other plants and oragnisms? THAT is what worries me.

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a word I can't, don't and won't use in the daycare

seriously mind your peas and q's or honestly I would just nod yes yes and yes, and then still do my own thing. I wouldn't try to push my new way of eating onto anyone else either. Friends and family are just looking out for you or worried about their own insecurities of the way they eat themselves. I wouldn't let it get to me and do what is right for you-

I wish I had your motivation. I am a vegetarian want to be.

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have your thyroid checked-

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Fact is, you're right. We don't know what the long term result will be. And all of it deserves concern, skepticism and close, regulated and unbiased scrutiny.

But again, that is a first world problem, and what a wonderful choice to have. The rest of the world does not necessarily have those options. They don't have clean water and they don't have food. If they starve next week will it matter what GMO will have done to them 50 years down the road?

Can we utilize the technology to save lives today and improve upon it tomorrow?

If you had cancer would you want the chemo and radiation knowing it could give you secondary cancers down the road or would you do nothing at all?

It is a huge ethical dilemma for people that are blessed enough to have options but for those who don't I can see where it's a no brainer.


Don't get me started on the gluten intolerance thing lol......are there some people who are legitimately afflicted by it? Yes, but the vast majority of it I believe is just hype and fad, same would go for things like autism and many mental illnesses like ADD/ADHD.

Legitimate illness, legitimate sufferers, but no where near the numbers the general public claim.

I am unconvinced there are more or less cases of most afflictions, just better means to diagnose and report.

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What about the oils in seeds and nuts? Also what if you don't eat any type of fish- not even tuna?

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Reading this while eating a still warm chocolate chip cookie.......oh dear.....

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I love this thread and have been following it. Can't say I'm a health but, but would love to be one of these days.

Problem is I have trouble stepping away from chocolate like you meeko

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send it to me!
just kidding... (sorta of)

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I think it's great to make dietary changes, if they are WELL educated. As far as being vegan, personally, I couldn't do it. We eat meat a couple days per week, but it is always antibiotic/hormone free and local. When the budget allows I get organic/non-gmo fed. We actually have a local certified organic hog coming. The farmers are very picky about how they are slaughtered, and it is done in a quick, humane way. They are free-range pigs, so I know they've lived a happy life!

There are plenty of plant sources that are so good for you. Purslane is one of my favorites. It is considered a "weed" by most people, but is edible and VERY good for you. It has one of highest levels of omega fatty acids of any plant! I love it in potato salad, leafy green salads, and on tacos!

I eat a lot of plant sources of protein. Quinoa, lentils, beans, buckwheat, and amaranth are my favorites!

Good for you for making positive changes! Just be sure to keep a rounded diet so you get all of your amino acids.

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I am definitely going to follow everyones advise on here!
I am just so amazed about how much health info there is out there.
I used to eat so poorly! like 25 years ago, we would eat donuts several times a week, chinese food, ( which we considered our healthiest meal because of the veggies in the fried rice and the chicken slathered in sweet and sour sauce... and we ate a lot of lunch meat and cheese sandwiches on white bread( again our "health food") along with low fat milk... But i never bought the sugary cereal for my kids or candy and chips and I really thought I was feeding them well! ( They were and are all thin) ... but I wasn't

Then I took a nutrition class and joined the food program and realized how bad all this was... so we started eating whole wheat bread, whole wheat total, canned veggies, and frozen regular veggies, whole chicken and turkey and ground turkey and very rarely hamburger ... not organic or anything and non fat milk

Then I joined this forum and read a lot of posts about nutrition and read Nanny de's posts about Food Inc. and watched this movie and king corn.
We started eating only organic food and fresh organic chicken from costco... (we do not have butchers where I live)

THEN my daughter MADE me watch forks over knives

This movie says that animal meat and milk causes cancer and milk can actually cause osteoporosis ...
So for the last week I have been doing the vegetarian thing but the one source of protein that I like and actually have time to cook is genetically modified ( tofu) and I am so confused and discouraged..
I will try the other foods that was suggested. it will take time to learn how to cook them and I am sure everything will be fine.
For an example of how I don't know what I am doing with beans etc.
I soaked the beans too long and there was foamy stuff all over the top and I had to dump them

I will keep trying and the point I am trying to make is... I am always learning and getting better! I didn't just watch a movie and make an extreme decision to be a vegetarian
Thanks guys

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bumping this because I am really wanting to know- thinking of modifying my diet in a few weeks and giving the old vegetarian lifestyle a try. I don't eat much meat anyway. I won't give up dairy and I should but I just love cheese and love ice cream even if it doesn't love me.

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another silly question, if you have a veg soup, what is the broth made up from if not a meat stalk? Usually a chicken or beef stalk is used?

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Probably vegetable stock but read the label as there may be meat products in the soup if canned.

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anatomy lesson!

Like the chicken wings with all the bones and cartilage?
or the drum sticks with those gross slimy worm looking vein things?
or the eggs with the little yellow yolk that would have been fertilized but wasn't? or how about that Thanksgiving turkey with those gizzards and heart etc.
I do not miss meat at all!!!

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Since when do only animals identifiable anatomy??

http://www.geochembio.com/biology/organisms/tomato/


That you are grossed out by one living organisms anatomy and not anothers for whatever reason doesn't negate the fact that they both have identifiable parts that help them to survive.

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Little wormy things - spaghetti squash?
Vein things - celery, romaine?
Hearts - artichokes?


Just sayin'

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these food items don't have a mother or a face! Yup, I've been brainwashed!

Willow, have you ever watched Forks Over Knives?
It's on Netflix

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I don't watch biased trash like that.

The good Lord tells me to eat meat and science supports that I should in the form of the way my body was designed.

If someone came out with a video claiming grass causes cancer in cows I'd take the same stance. If biologically it's what's meant to be and you want to buck that have at er and more power to ya. But personally I think it's PETA driven dribble and I won't be drinkin that koolaid.


(There are male and female plants and parts of plants, how you sort out they have no mother is beyond me as new plant life doesn't just come from nowhere. As for the "face" bit I think that's a matter if perspective, as wonky as it sounds )

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~Michelle

I HAVE watched Forks Over Knives....

and didn't get brainwashed at all. But I am not niave enough to believe that one 96 minute movie holds the key to healthy eating or all the answers to curing cancer etc.

The movie has some great examples, awesome stories and some charts, graphs and scientific data that FULLY supports a plant based diet....however, there is always two sides to every story...especially the part about Norwegian people suddenly being healthier when they stopped eating meat and meat by-products during the invasion of Hilter.

(there is SOOOO much of that story the movie didn't share.....evidence that little to none of that was entirely true)

A "Plant-Based diet" and/or a "Standard American" diet are NOT the only two ways in which a person can eat a healthy well balanced lifestyle.

This is a great critique/review of the movie and in it, the author breaks down the segments and shows you that the movie only showed you bits and pieces of a partial truth.

The article has TONS of evidence (and links) supporting her viewpoints.

If you have the time, make sure you read the comments as well as they also contains some really good information.


http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/for...-and-critique/

Here is another great review http://doingspeed.com/book-review/fo...ting-it-right/ of the movie in which this site says the movie is nothing more than a 90 minute infomercial supporting Dr. T. Colin Campbell and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, Jr. Here is a fantastic link to a truthful breakdown of their work http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/




Now I am NOT saying that anything in the movie Forks Over Knives is or isn't truthful....I am only saying that for every single "fact" or "truth" that the movie presented, you can find an equal (and sometimes greater) "fact" or "truth" stating the exact opposite.

http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-k...and-destroyed/

Look, I’m not saying you can’t be vegan and healthy, I am just saying that Forks Over Knives only shows you a small slice of truth along with a whole lot of useless info that is completely unsubstantiated.

The best thing you can do is to go see your own physician. Get a FULL medical work up. Talk with him/her about what YOU and YOUR body needs. Consult with a trained, educated and reputable nutritionist who knows what they are talking about. Learn about YOUR body, how the foods you choose to and choose not to put into your body effect your body, mood, mind and overall health.

We are all similar in make up but not at all the same....find what is right for YOU and YOU ONLY....whether that is a partial vegan, vegetarian, full vegan or just a little of this and a little of that kind of diet doesn't really matter. In the end all that matters is that you meant your bodies specific needs and requirements to be the healthiest YOU can be.

Educate yourself about you, not what works for others.

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Thank you Black cat.
This was very helpful and nice advice.
I will read all of this.
I think we all want to be healthy and there are so many ways to do it.
I am definitely not veegan.
I got kinda excited but scared when I lost 5 lbs in a day yesterday ..so I think this is too extreme and I will eat more calories now.

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It definitely sounds like more calories might be in order, but it sounds like your scale might be wonky too. 5 pounds in one day maens a deficit of 15,000 calories unless you were really eating that poorly before, or really holding that much water weight, i doubt that's accurate. There are other things that can affect your weight, too--like if you were actually chronically constipated and didn't know it and that's passing now...but 5 lbs is still very extreme.

Test your scale--weigh yourself at least three times in close succession. if the weight is consistent each time, your scale is precise (means takes the same measurement each time). If it varies at all, it's imprecise and you need a different/better scale. Or put it in a different/better spot. It should be on a solid surface, not carpet, and ideally should be somewhere it doesn't get moved often or ever.

I'm willing to be your scale is a problem.

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