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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Chuckling At Neighbor
sharlan 09:59 AM 07-21-2011
I was looking out the window when the neighbor across the street's daycare family showed up this morning. After the dad took the baby in, he pops the trunk and pulls out an exersaucer and takes it in the house.
Uh, sorry, folks, no exersaucers allowed in CA.
No, I am not going to call licensing and report them.
Uh, sorry, folks, no exersaucers allowed in CA.
No, I am not going to call licensing and report them.
Maddy'sMommy 10:05 AM 07-21-2011
Why aren't you allowed exersaucers?
I get that babies shouldn't be in them for long periods of time, but why the total ban?
I get that babies shouldn't be in them for long periods of time, but why the total ban?
Meeko 10:07 AM 07-21-2011
We're not allowed the ones with wheels. The the saucer ones are OK. (Utah)
daycare 10:13 AM 07-21-2011
In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
Christina72684 10:20 AM 07-21-2011
What?! Are you kidding? Where are the babies supposed to go if you're not holding them? I have anywhere from 2-9 kids a day, with only one baby (my own 4 month old) and I don't know how I'd get anything done if I couldn't put her in her bouncer or swing. We can't let them sleep in anything but their crib or pack n play, but my daughter falls asleep in her swing all the time. I can't wait until she's old enough to use a exersaucer. She just started using a Bumpo this week!
nannyde 10:23 AM 07-21-2011
IIRC they have had deaths and severe bodily injuries on infants caused by non supervision in them, use too young, use too old, long periods of time use, etc.
wdmmom 10:28 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
What does the state want you to do with them all day?! Hold them?! What about car seats? Can you have infants in them? Or what about Jumparoos for kids old enough? What kind of equipment CAN you use?!In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
Maddy'sMommy 10:31 AM 07-21-2011
That's very sad. Poor babies.
It is also a shame that misuse by some would lead to an outright ban. Safety first though.
It is also a shame that misuse by some would lead to an outright ban. Safety first though.
sharlan 10:41 AM 07-21-2011
We can only use swings for short periods of time. The baby has to be removed if they fall asleep.
IMHO, part of the regs are SIDS related as a baby slouched in a carseat or bouncy seat can compress their lungs. As nannyde said, some people use the exersaucers incorrectly - too youg or too old.
But even crayons when not properly supervised can cause choking should a child eat them.
The neighbor probably thinks that it's ok if the parents bring it, but it's not. We cannot even have them in the house for our own children's use.
IMHO, part of the regs are SIDS related as a baby slouched in a carseat or bouncy seat can compress their lungs. As nannyde said, some people use the exersaucers incorrectly - too youg or too old.
But even crayons when not properly supervised can cause choking should a child eat them.
The neighbor probably thinks that it's ok if the parents bring it, but it's not. We cannot even have them in the house for our own children's use.
JaydensMommy 10:52 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
I'm in California and I was told you can use swings, thats about it. That's about the only thing you can use. And I've never heard that you can't put them in a pnp or crib when awake. If that's true.. that's something I wasn't informed of.In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
momofboys 11:00 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by JaydensMommy:
I'm in California and I was told you can use swings, thats about it. That's about the only thing you can use. And I've never heard that you can't put them in a pnp or crib when awake. If that's true.. that's something I wasn't informed of.
Are you supposed to hold the babies until they fall asleep & then place them in the crib? That would be my main issue, I truly believe in kids learning to fall asleep on their own & that sort of rule would make it difficult for little ones to learn that on their own.I'm in California and I was told you can use swings, thats about it. That's about the only thing you can use. And I've never heard that you can't put them in a pnp or crib when awake. If that's true.. that's something I wasn't informed of.
Kaddidle Care 11:03 AM 07-21-2011
Exersaucers weren't around when I had my first - they had the walkers on wheels - WHEEE! 
#2 son had an Exersaucer. He would rock it back and forth and move across the living room easy as pie. They are NOT stationery things at all.
I can't imagine having to take care of a bunch of children and not being able to put the baby in anything at any time of day. That's nuts!
#2 son had an Exersaucer. He would rock it back and forth and move across the living room easy as pie. They are NOT stationery things at all.
I can't imagine having to take care of a bunch of children and not being able to put the baby in anything at any time of day. That's nuts!
nannyde 11:06 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
The neighbor probably thinks that it's ok if the parents bring it, but it's not. We cannot even have them in the house for our own children's use.
The only way to regulate them really is to say they can't be there. That's an easy check. They are either there or not. Providers wouldn't have the time to hide them when the inspector comes knocking at the door. The neighbor probably thinks that it's ok if the parents bring it, but it's not. We cannot even have them in the house for our own children's use.
My guess on how it is really done day to day is that the cribs and high chairs are used at a WAY higher rate than in states that allow the swings, bouncy seats, jumparoos etc.
I went to a child care class that promoted NO high chairs either. Hold the baby in one hand and feed with the other. Of course there weren't any other kids in the video while they shot it. The caregiver was just with ONE kid.
nannyde 11:07 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by JaydensMommy:
I'm in California and I was told you can use swings, thats about it. That's about the only thing you can use. And I've never heard that you can't put them in a pnp or crib when awake. If that's true.. that's something I wasn't informed of.
Can you guys use swings?I'm in California and I was told you can use swings, thats about it. That's about the only thing you can use. And I've never heard that you can't put them in a pnp or crib when awake. If that's true.. that's something I wasn't informed of.
Maybe I'm getting you confused with Georgia.
I think in California there is a time limit to being awake in a crib.
Crystal will know.
daycare 11:10 AM 07-21-2011
Please Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a long time since my orientation days and I don't do infant care,
But I was told that you can place the baby in crib or pack n play for the purpose of napping only. You can't put them in there as a place to play toys or any other activity.
You can lay them awake to sleep, but only for that purpose.
Also about the swing I would call and check with LIC. I recall no swings for the reasons that nannyde stated.
But I was told that you can place the baby in crib or pack n play for the purpose of napping only. You can't put them in there as a place to play toys or any other activity.
You can lay them awake to sleep, but only for that purpose.
Also about the swing I would call and check with LIC. I recall no swings for the reasons that nannyde stated.
Maddy'sMommy 11:12 AM 07-21-2011
I can imagine it's very difficult to manage different age groups without somewhere to sit the baby for a few minutes.
We don't get young babies as often in Canada since Mat leave is 1 year long. I have a couple 11 month olds signed up now, they don't want to be in those things anyways since they can walk now. Even my daughter who is 9 months doesn't enjoy her jumperoo/exersaucer as much anymore.
We don't get young babies as often in Canada since Mat leave is 1 year long. I have a couple 11 month olds signed up now, they don't want to be in those things anyways since they can walk now. Even my daughter who is 9 months doesn't enjoy her jumperoo/exersaucer as much anymore.
momofboys 11:21 AM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
Exersaucers weren't around when I had my first - they had the walkers on wheels - WHEEE!
#2 son had an Exersaucer. He would rock it back and forth and move across the living room easy as pie. They are NOT stationery things at all.
I can't imagine having to take care of a bunch of children and not being able to put the baby in anything at any time of day. That's nuts!
Exersaucers weren't around when I had my first - they had the walkers on wheels - WHEEE!
#2 son had an Exersaucer. He would rock it back and forth and move across the living room easy as pie. They are NOT stationery things at all.
I can't imagine having to take care of a bunch of children and not being able to put the baby in anything at any time of day. That's nuts!
The exersaucer my son had was stationery but then he is only 3 yrs old so it was purchased in 2008. . . I think more of them are stationery these days.
cheerfuldom 11:33 AM 07-21-2011
oy. these guidelines would kill me. I guess the point is also to limit the number of younger ones because you would have to find ways to care with them without use of this equipment.
Unregistered 11:40 AM 07-21-2011
Uh, so I guess you just put them down on the floor and let everyone step on them? Those rules are asinine! I cannot imagine not having the option of using a swing, bumbo, or exersaucer.
Crystal 12:25 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Can you guys use swings?
Maybe I'm getting you confused with Georgia.
I think in California there is a time limit to being awake in a crib.
Crystal will know.
We can use swings for limited periods of time, never while sleeping.Can you guys use swings?
Maybe I'm getting you confused with Georgia.
I think in California there is a time limit to being awake in a crib.
Crystal will know.
Time limit for crib or playpen is only when putting down to sleep, or when provider must use potty, etc.
High chairs can only be used for feeding times, or for an older infant for drawing/activity time, etc.
No bouncers, no doorway jumpers, no exersaucers, no walkers.
These regs are enforced differently county to county, monitor to monitor.....to be "interpreted" by the individual monitor as they see fit.
If you have any of this equipment for your own child it must not be out during daycare hours.
Crystal 12:32 PM 07-21-2011
These regs have been put in place due to providers over-use of equipment. Children were being left in swings, bouncers, etc. to the detriment of the children's physical development, as due to a couple of horrible incidents that set precedent.
About 10 years ago I got a phone call from a licensor in another county. It was regarding the FCC that my niece attended...they could not reach her parents.
A baby had died in daycare that day. He had been put down for nap in a playpen in another room.....an apparently had not been checked on for several hours when Mom arrived to find her infant non-responsive. This happened AFTER licensing had recieved numerous complaints about children be left in high chairs for extended periods....with photos showing bruises from the straps because the children were crying and trying to free themselves.
Sad, but true, and one of many incidents that resulted in tougher regs for infant equipment.
About 10 years ago I got a phone call from a licensor in another county. It was regarding the FCC that my niece attended...they could not reach her parents.
A baby had died in daycare that day. He had been put down for nap in a playpen in another room.....an apparently had not been checked on for several hours when Mom arrived to find her infant non-responsive. This happened AFTER licensing had recieved numerous complaints about children be left in high chairs for extended periods....with photos showing bruises from the straps because the children were crying and trying to free themselves.
Sad, but true, and one of many incidents that resulted in tougher regs for infant equipment.
sharlan 12:46 PM 07-21-2011
POLICY
Licensees can be required to provide toys, that the toys be safe as reflected in
Section 102417(d), and that the toys be age-appropriate (e.g., bicycles for infants are not
appropriate). It is a generally accepted practice to require toys at the prelicensing visit in
order to demonstrate readiness for operation.
Section 1596.846 is added to the Health and Safety Code which states in part that a baby
walker shall not be kept or used on the premises of a Child Care Facilities. A baby walker is
defined as an article known as a “baby bouncer”, “walker jumper”, “baby walker” or any
similar article.The above Health and Safety Code is not intended to prohibit the storage and use of a baby
walker in a provider’s own home for their own children. The intention is to prohibit the use
of a baby walker during the hours of operation as a child care home. Therefore, baby
walkers may be in a child care home, but they cannot be used by the children and they must
be stored in an area not accessible to children during the hours of operation as a child care
home.
_________________________________________________________________________________
01FCCH-01 May
2001
34
Licensees can be required to provide toys, that the toys be safe as reflected in
Section 102417(d), and that the toys be age-appropriate (e.g., bicycles for infants are not
appropriate). It is a generally accepted practice to require toys at the prelicensing visit in
order to demonstrate readiness for operation.
Section 1596.846 is added to the Health and Safety Code which states in part that a baby
walker shall not be kept or used on the premises of a Child Care Facilities. A baby walker is
defined as an article known as a “baby bouncer”, “walker jumper”, “baby walker” or any
similar article.The above Health and Safety Code is not intended to prohibit the storage and use of a baby
walker in a provider’s own home for their own children. The intention is to prohibit the use
of a baby walker during the hours of operation as a child care home. Therefore, baby
walkers may be in a child care home, but they cannot be used by the children and they must
be stored in an area not accessible to children during the hours of operation as a child care
home.
_________________________________________________________________________________
01FCCH-01 May
2001
34
mac60 01:13 PM 07-21-2011
And all this BS explains why I would never do this job and be licensed. The rules and regulations are absolutely rediculous. What the hell you supposed to do with a baby during their waking hours, duct tape them to your back and haul them around all day. I don't think so. 
sharlan 01:38 PM 07-21-2011
The fine for not having a license in CA is $200 a day. That's just not worth it in my book.
Michelle 01:42 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
Please Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a long time since my orientation days and I don't do infant care,
But I was told that you can place the baby in crib or pack n play for the purpose of napping only. You can't put them in there as a place to play toys or any other activity.
You can lay them awake to sleep, but only for that purpose.
Also about the swing I would call and check with LIC. I recall no swings for the reasons that nannyde stated.
That's what I was going to say, I was told no swings!Please Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's been a long time since my orientation days and I don't do infant care,
But I was told that you can place the baby in crib or pack n play for the purpose of napping only. You can't put them in there as a place to play toys or any other activity.
You can lay them awake to sleep, but only for that purpose.
Also about the swing I would call and check with LIC. I recall no swings for the reasons that nannyde stated.
daycare 01:46 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
And all this BS explains why I would never do this job and be licensed. The rules and regulations are absolutely rediculous. What the hell you supposed to do with a baby during their waking hours, duct tape them to your back and haul them around all day. I don't think so.
Lol that made me laugh! The vision of someone doing that is funny!And all this BS explains why I would never do this job and be licensed. The rules and regulations are absolutely rediculous. What the hell you supposed to do with a baby during their waking hours, duct tape them to your back and haul them around all day. I don't think so.
Let's hope someone wouldn't do that!! Lol
sharlan 01:54 PM 07-21-2011
I've often thought about how nice a velcro wall would be. Just wrap them in soft velcro and attach.
(JUST KIDDING)
I just spoke to my neighbor at the mailbox. He said he knew they weren't allowed, but didn't see the father bring it in this morning. He carried it in the front door, how could you not see it?
(JUST KIDDING)
I just spoke to my neighbor at the mailbox. He said he knew they weren't allowed, but didn't see the father bring it in this morning. He carried it in the front door, how could you not see it?
Christian Mother 01:58 PM 07-21-2011
I am not licensed here in AZ. But I stick pretty closely to AZ regulations. My first daycare child came to me at 3mo. My son was already in school and I had my daughter in care with me...she was about 2. This little guy is still with me and he used a swing for a couple months until he tired of it and then I used a bouncer to place him in when I needed to go potty and would place him in it when I went to the bathroom or when while fixing lunch. All feedings he was in my arms and then when he slept he would be placed into his pnp. He did quiet a bit of sleeping for a 4 months or so. Then when he got to be 5 or 6 months old he could be placed on a big blanket on his tummy with toys. He wasn't so much interested in a swing. I had a bouncer but he didn't seem to like it much. It was one of those saucer ones. My daughter loved it when she was a infant. I remember infants sleep a whole lot and the only times they where awake was feeding and diapering and maybe a hr or so up to play. It didn't seem to hard at all to have one and then when they got older it was a lot of tummy time. I will have another infant in Dec. the brother to my first daycare child I mentioned. I will pretty much do the same I did before. 
Oh forgot to mention you can have 4 paid children in care anything past that you will have to be lic. There is no way I could care for more then 5 kids. I have 2 of my own and one is in school with the other in preschool. No way could I do that with a infant.
Oh forgot to mention you can have 4 paid children in care anything past that you will have to be lic. There is no way I could care for more then 5 kids. I have 2 of my own and one is in school with the other in preschool. No way could I do that with a infant.
Michelle 01:59 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
I've often thought about how nice a velcro wall would be. Just wrap them in soft velcro and attach.
(JUST KIDDING)
I just spoke to my neighbor at the mailbox. He said he knew they weren't allowed, but didn't see the father bring it in this morning. He carried it in the front door, how could you not see it?
omg, that is so funny!!!I've often thought about how nice a velcro wall would be. Just wrap them in soft velcro and attach.
(JUST KIDDING)
I just spoke to my neighbor at the mailbox. He said he knew they weren't allowed, but didn't see the father bring it in this morning. He carried it in the front door, how could you not see it?
we are always joking about a velcro wall!!
when things get really tough we just say "velcro wall" to each other for a good laugh!!! We went to a carnival and they had a jumpy velcro wall and I told my dh to go ask how much they cost!!
PitterPatter 01:59 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
Well I would be the 1st to lose my licence then! Sometimes a pack and play is a MUST! Whoever makes these rules needs to walk a day in our shoes with some of our children with issues that require such things. Who makes the rules anyway? Obviously not an experience child care provider. Probably some old guy sitting behind a desk that never even changed a diaper!In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
familyschoolcare 02:06 PM 07-21-2011
The sad thing about the cal. reg. is that Prohibiting them all together was the only way the state could insure that children where not placed in them literally all day. A few years ago I saw a 20/20 type shoe where they had placed hidden cameras in a family day care and between morning snack and after noon snack.
Kaddidle Care 02:09 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by momofboys:
The exersaucer my son had was stationery but then he is only 3 yrs old so it was purchased in 2008. . . I think more of them are stationery these days.
This was the kind he had - not with all that junk on it like I see nowadays.The exersaucer my son had was stationery but then he is only 3 yrs old so it was purchased in 2008. . . I think more of them are stationery these days.
http://www.shortsaleseldoradocounty....Exersaucer.jpg
He'd lean back and forth, side to side and sort of waddle it across the room. I couldn't turn my back on him for an instant, little wild man that he was.
Edit: My ADHD son took a look at the ones they make nowadays and said: "It's no wonder kids have ADD these days - just look at them!"
sharlan 02:12 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
The sad thing about the cal. reg. is that Prohibiting them all together was the only way the state could insure that children where not placed in them literally all day. A few years ago I saw a 20/20 type shoe where they had placed hidden cameras in a family day care and between morning snack and after noon snack.
Have you seen any of those shows that promote the positive use of things? No, because nobody would watch, everyone wants to see the horror shows.The sad thing about the cal. reg. is that Prohibiting them all together was the only way the state could insure that children where not placed in them literally all day. A few years ago I saw a 20/20 type shoe where they had placed hidden cameras in a family day care and between morning snack and after noon snack.
Childminder 02:19 PM 07-21-2011
I'm sure you have all seen this photo before but soon this is all we will be able to do with children.
rednecktimeout.jpg
rednecktimeout.jpg
Attached:
daycare 02:40 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Childminder:
I'm sure you have all seen this photo before but soon this is all we will be able to do with children.
Attachment 520
Lmao. A man did that!!! No doubt! That is super funny!!I'm sure you have all seen this photo before but soon this is all we will be able to do with children.
Attachment 520
mom2many 03:10 PM 07-21-2011
It is totally crazy here in CA! The bouncy seats used to be okay, but now they can only be held or put on the floor.
When I had my last site visit in Jan. 2010, I was told by licensing that they will cite a provider, if they use a pack & play for anything, but actually sleeping. I'm assuming it's okay to put an infant down in one awake and allow them to fall asleep.
However, she explained that one provider had put an infant in one with some toys, while she was occupied with her licensing monitor and got cited for that?! I guess it's better to leave an infant unsupervised, while an inspection is taking place in the home. My last inspection lasted 1 1/2 hours, and since we can have 2 dcks under the age of 2, holding them the whole time is not very realistic!
She also said high chairs cannot be used to restrain a child and can only be used while the child is actually eating. They claim it is a personal right issue to have an infant contained in anything.
I have not been able to find anything regarding swings in regs though...and have simply stayed away from them.
I'd love to hear what anyone else knows about that!
The bouncy seats used to be okay, but now they can only be held or put on the floor. When I had my last site visit in Jan. 2010, I was told by licensing that they will cite a provider, if they use a pack & play for anything, but actually sleeping. I'm assuming it's okay to put an infant down in one awake and allow them to fall asleep.
However, she explained that one provider had put an infant in one with some toys, while she was occupied with her licensing monitor and got cited for that?!
I guess it's better to leave an infant unsupervised, while an inspection is taking place in the home. My last inspection lasted 1 1/2 hours, and since we can have 2 dcks under the age of 2, holding them the whole time is not very realistic! She also said high chairs cannot be used to restrain a child and can only be used while the child is actually eating. They claim it is a personal right issue to have an infant contained in anything.
I have not been able to find anything regarding swings in regs though...and have simply stayed away from them.
I'd love to hear what anyone else knows about that!
familyschoolcare 03:14 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Have you seen any of those shows that promote the positive use of things? No, because nobody would watch, everyone wants to see the horror shows.
You missed the point the point was that people greatly abused the use of such things and children where seriously hurt and a few died. Death is a much bigger down fall than any positive use of something.Have you seen any of those shows that promote the positive use of things? No, because nobody would watch, everyone wants to see the horror shows.
Crazy8 03:20 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
IIRC they have had deaths and severe bodily injuries on infants caused by non supervision in them, use too young, use too old, long periods of time use, etc.
I can think of a MILLION things in the house that can cause harm if not supervised when using them. How about a chair, a table... are they going to ban everything that is used incorrectly??????IIRC they have had deaths and severe bodily injuries on infants caused by non supervision in them, use too young, use too old, long periods of time use, etc.
sharlan 03:34 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
You missed the point the point was that people greatly abused the use of such things and children where seriously hurt and a few died. Death is a much bigger down fall than any positive use of something.
No, I didn't miss the point, I understood what you were saying.You missed the point the point was that people greatly abused the use of such things and children where seriously hurt and a few died. Death is a much bigger down fall than any positive use of something.
My point is that thousands of people use these items in their homes every day without an issue. But a few people use them incorrectly, so nobody can use them. Do you see shows promoting the safe use? No, we see shows that show the horror stories.
Years ago, I saw a show on Oprah where a child stood on an oven door and the stove topple down and killed the child. They now have little brackets that anchor the back legs to prevent this from happening. I have never had a child stand on an open oven door because I know to close the door as soon as possible.
We are moving away from using common sense and having to have somebody else tell us what to do, when, why, and where.
I had a curling iron years ago that said something to the effect "Do not insert vaginally". Now who in their right mind is going to do that? Thankfully nobody I know, but the disclaimer had to be there just in case somebody did it.
sharlan 03:36 PM 07-21-2011
I have 2 sofas in my family room that recline. I am waiting, because I am positive that they will be banned before too many years.
familyschoolcare 04:50 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
No, I didn't miss the point, I understood what you were saying.
My point is that thousands of people use these items in their homes every day without an issue. But a few people use them incorrectly, so nobody can use them. Do you see shows promoting the safe use? No, we see shows that show the horror stories.
Years ago, I saw a show on Oprah where a child stood on an oven door and the stove topple down and killed the child. They now have little brackets that anchor the back legs to prevent this from happening. I have never had a child stand on an open oven door because I know to close the door as soon as possible.
We are moving away from using common sense and having to have somebody else tell us what to do, when, why, and where.
I had a curling iron years ago that said something to the effect "Do not insert vaginally". Now who in their right mind is going to do that? Thankfully nobody I know, but the disclaimer had to be there just in case somebody did it.
I see you did get the point.No, I didn't miss the point, I understood what you were saying.
My point is that thousands of people use these items in their homes every day without an issue. But a few people use them incorrectly, so nobody can use them. Do you see shows promoting the safe use? No, we see shows that show the horror stories.
Years ago, I saw a show on Oprah where a child stood on an oven door and the stove topple down and killed the child. They now have little brackets that anchor the back legs to prevent this from happening. I have never had a child stand on an open oven door because I know to close the door as soon as possible.
We are moving away from using common sense and having to have somebody else tell us what to do, when, why, and where.
I had a curling iron years ago that said something to the effect "Do not insert vaginally". Now who in their right mind is going to do that? Thankfully nobody I know, but the disclaimer had to be there just in case somebody did it.
I am sorry it seamed to me that you did not.
Crystal 05:10 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
No, I didn't miss the point, I understood what you were saying.
My point is that thousands of people use these items in their homes every day without an issue. But a few people use them incorrectly, so nobody can use them. Do you see shows promoting the safe use? No, we see shows that show the horror stories.
Years ago, I saw a show on Oprah where a child stood on an oven door and the stove topple down and killed the child. They now have little brackets that anchor the back legs to prevent this from happening. I have never had a child stand on an open oven door because I know to close the door as soon as possible.
We are moving away from using common sense and having to have somebody else tell us what to do, when, why, and where.
I had a curling iron years ago that said something to the effect "Do not insert vaginally". Now who in their right mind is going to do that? Thankfully nobody I know, but the disclaimer had to be there just in case somebody did it.
I think we do see the shows recommending the safe use of equipment, we just focus more on the "horror stories" No, I didn't miss the point, I understood what you were saying.
My point is that thousands of people use these items in their homes every day without an issue. But a few people use them incorrectly, so nobody can use them. Do you see shows promoting the safe use? No, we see shows that show the horror stories.
Years ago, I saw a show on Oprah where a child stood on an oven door and the stove topple down and killed the child. They now have little brackets that anchor the back legs to prevent this from happening. I have never had a child stand on an open oven door because I know to close the door as soon as possible.
We are moving away from using common sense and having to have somebody else tell us what to do, when, why, and where.
I had a curling iron years ago that said something to the effect "Do not insert vaginally". Now who in their right mind is going to do that? Thankfully nobody I know, but the disclaimer had to be there just in case somebody did it.
You are right, we are moving away from common sense, but that is the reality of today's society....many, many people do not use common sense, resulting in "horror stories" so, unfortunately many people DO need to be banned from using some things.
Yes, this equipment is used in many homes, but we are group care....not caring for one or two children....so having that exersaucer/swing/playpen DOES end up getting used for FAR too much time and as pacifiers/babysitters for children while the provider tends to other tasks. It is unfortunate that a few providers have made it so no providers can use this equipment, but licensing has no way of assessing who will or will not use it properly, so in the end they just banned it all. Also, there have been a multitude of accidents, oftentimes resulting in death, when parents have used this equipment at home......it has also resulted in failure-to-thrive babies, which affects the child's growth and development long-term.
While I see the need for some sort of equipment for many providers, I think in the long-run the overall safety, appropriate development and well-being of children in ALL child care situations overrides the need to use such equipment.
Country Kids 05:17 PM 07-21-2011
For those veteran providers-20+ years what in the world did you guys do back then before all these were invented or used. Where babies just laid down on the ground with a blanket or something. My oldest daughter 18 had a bouncer/then a walker but we did't have a pnp or a playpen even but she wasn't in a childcare till she was 2. She also was my only one so what did everyone in childcare do?
familyschoolcare 05:26 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I think we do see the shows recommending the safe use of equipment, we just focus more on the "horror stories"
You are right, we are moving away from common sense, but that is the reality of today's society....many, many people do not use common sense, resulting in "horror stories" so, unfortunately many people DO need to be banned from using some things.
Yes, this equipment is used in many homes, but we are group care....not caring for one or two children....so having that exersaucer/swing/playpen DOES end up getting used for FAR too much time and as pacifiers/babysitters for children while the provider tends to other tasks. It is unfortunate that a few providers have made it so no providers can use this equipment, but licensing has no way of assessing who will or will not use it properly, so in the end they just banned it all. Also, there have been a multitude of accidents, oftentimes resulting in death, when parents have used this equipment at home......it has also resulted in failure-to-thrive babies, which affects the child's growth and development long-term.
While I see the need for some sort of equipment for many providers, I think in the long-run the overall safety, appropriate development and well-being of children in ALL child care situations overrides the need to use such equipment.
well saidI think we do see the shows recommending the safe use of equipment, we just focus more on the "horror stories"
You are right, we are moving away from common sense, but that is the reality of today's society....many, many people do not use common sense, resulting in "horror stories" so, unfortunately many people DO need to be banned from using some things.
Yes, this equipment is used in many homes, but we are group care....not caring for one or two children....so having that exersaucer/swing/playpen DOES end up getting used for FAR too much time and as pacifiers/babysitters for children while the provider tends to other tasks. It is unfortunate that a few providers have made it so no providers can use this equipment, but licensing has no way of assessing who will or will not use it properly, so in the end they just banned it all. Also, there have been a multitude of accidents, oftentimes resulting in death, when parents have used this equipment at home......it has also resulted in failure-to-thrive babies, which affects the child's growth and development long-term.
While I see the need for some sort of equipment for many providers, I think in the long-run the overall safety, appropriate development and well-being of children in ALL child care situations overrides the need to use such equipment.
:
Crystal 05:26 PM 07-21-2011
I have been a provider for 14 years, so they pretty much had most of the equipment when I started. But, it has never been my go-to. I don't have a swing, I don't have any baby equipment, other than a crib I just bought...and I was hesitant to buy that. I have always used moses baskets and the like, but I have a highly active, older group right now and with an itty bitty one starting I wanted somewhere a little more enclosed for him.
I have "cozy corners" set up with board books, rattles, mirrors, etc. for the infants. I use moby wraps to carry the infant when I don't have time to sit and hold/rock, etc. and simply wear the baby
I have "cozy corners" set up with board books, rattles, mirrors, etc. for the infants. I use moby wraps to carry the infant when I don't have time to sit and hold/rock, etc. and simply wear the baby
afmama 05:30 PM 07-21-2011
I'm fairly new to home child care, but I'm on my own second baby and I disagree with the over-use of things that contain the baby. I am all about a good ole blanket on the floor! Sometimes it's tough with bigger kids around, but I've bigger kids mess with a baby in a swing, jumper etc. also.
I do care on an AFB and we are allowed to use "containment" devices for 20 min. every 3 hrs. I never asked if that time included the high chair, but I don't think it does. Also we are not allowed to even use a high chair until they are 8 months old. I love holding babies for bottles...but really how do you hold a jar of food and a 6 month old haha?! Luckily my babies are older, but I just picture us sitting in the bathtub haha
I do care on an AFB and we are allowed to use "containment" devices for 20 min. every 3 hrs. I never asked if that time included the high chair, but I don't think it does. Also we are not allowed to even use a high chair until they are 8 months old. I love holding babies for bottles...but really how do you hold a jar of food and a 6 month old haha?! Luckily my babies are older, but I just picture us sitting in the bathtub haha
nannyde 06:05 PM 07-21-2011
I think there's another issue in play here that most providers don't realize unless they have been in the business for a while and seen how infant equipment has changed so much.
I was at Walmart last weekend and I took a peek at their displays and my notion that the equipment has cheapened down was confirmed again. What they have available is strikingly different than the equipment I have in my house.
The actual square inches of each part of the equipment is SO much less. The materials they use are flimsy with poor stitching. The buckles, hardware, trays, snaps... EVERYTHING is poor quality.
The equipment is being made for single kid use. It's designed to fail.
In child care the providers are using this equipment for multiple kids over time. When you have kids in poor quality equipment that is sized down to a very small window of time .. you are going to have injuries and death.
Providers want the equipment to last for kid after kid and last for a longer time than just a few months. They don't realize that the window of time is gone for use and let the bigger babies in it.
Ten years ago the exersaucers were designed to fit until the kid was walking. Now they are for seven/eight months. This means that there will be kids climbing out of them, tipping them over, and the points of the equipment that bear the weight of the child are going to squeeze into the kids legs cutting off circulation.
So part of this is provider overuse and lack of supervision but also some of it is that there isn't SAFE equipment available for the whole birth to one age group. When poor equipment meets overstretched and undereducated providers you have injury and death.
The government response is to get rid of the equipment.
After watching center cameras for a bit now I can tell you that the struggle to keep kids out of equipment when the staff is being WATCHED is a DAILY task. Leaving providers to make the day to day .. hour to hour decision... when nobody is watching to be reasonable with use and make sure it is being used for the proper age is definitely a risk for the infant.
I was at Walmart last weekend and I took a peek at their displays and my notion that the equipment has cheapened down was confirmed again. What they have available is strikingly different than the equipment I have in my house.
The actual square inches of each part of the equipment is SO much less. The materials they use are flimsy with poor stitching. The buckles, hardware, trays, snaps... EVERYTHING is poor quality.
The equipment is being made for single kid use. It's designed to fail.
In child care the providers are using this equipment for multiple kids over time. When you have kids in poor quality equipment that is sized down to a very small window of time .. you are going to have injuries and death.
Providers want the equipment to last for kid after kid and last for a longer time than just a few months. They don't realize that the window of time is gone for use and let the bigger babies in it.
Ten years ago the exersaucers were designed to fit until the kid was walking. Now they are for seven/eight months. This means that there will be kids climbing out of them, tipping them over, and the points of the equipment that bear the weight of the child are going to squeeze into the kids legs cutting off circulation.
So part of this is provider overuse and lack of supervision but also some of it is that there isn't SAFE equipment available for the whole birth to one age group. When poor equipment meets overstretched and undereducated providers you have injury and death.
The government response is to get rid of the equipment.
After watching center cameras for a bit now I can tell you that the struggle to keep kids out of equipment when the staff is being WATCHED is a DAILY task. Leaving providers to make the day to day .. hour to hour decision... when nobody is watching to be reasonable with use and make sure it is being used for the proper age is definitely a risk for the infant.
sharlan 06:20 PM 07-21-2011
It's been over 5 yrs since I had an exersaucer. That one was a couple of years old, but in great condition when I got rid of it. Not having the need, I haven't looked at any in years.
I do know that so many toys are very cheaply made now. I try to buy quality over quantity.
I do know that so many toys are very cheaply made now. I try to buy quality over quantity.
nannyde 06:26 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
For those veteran providers-20+ years what in the world did you guys do back then before all these were invented or used. Where babies just laid down on the ground with a blanket or something. My oldest daughter 18 had a bouncer/then a walker but we did't have a pnp or a playpen even but she wasn't in a childcare till she was 2. She also was my only one so what did everyone in childcare do?
Walkers with big thick round the seat trays and wheels that locked and unlocked.For those veteran providers-20+ years what in the world did you guys do back then before all these were invented or used. Where babies just laid down on the ground with a blanket or something. My oldest daughter 18 had a bouncer/then a walker but we did't have a pnp or a playpen even but she wasn't in a childcare till she was 2. She also was my only one so what did everyone in childcare do?
I have an old school walker. I'll have to take a pic of it.
Back in the day we used wooden play yards too. Graco made a BIG deep heavy duty fold up from the center play yard. The exersaucers were available when I started doing daycare in 93. I still have the first one I bought.
It wasn't unusual at ALL to have kids confined the majority of the waking day. The babies cruising the house and being mixed in with the older kids is relatively new. When I started doing child care the babies in play yards was completely understood and never even talked about. My first inspection in 95, I had the birth to two in a big superyard the entire inspection.
The rules that you can't put children to bed when they misbehaved and/or cried all the time did not exist. Kids who acted up went directly TO BED. Babies that screamed all the time went directly TO BED. We didn't have the pressure to have kids out that couldn't handle it. Confinement was just a part of babyhood, not a punishment but a way to keep everyone safe and the caretaker sane.
That went by the wayside as equipment is now because it was overused and kids got injured and neglected.
daycare 06:31 PM 07-21-2011
I hate to sound mean but some people just don't have any common sense and unfortunately just about anyone can run a daycare.
I've heard sone crazy stuuff at daycare classes and meetings that I am dumb founded anyone would even consider asking such a question.
I remember one lady asked the instructor if she could leave her four biological kids outside all day (all who were under 6) to play so that she could take 8 kids into her daycare. Wth!!!
It's sad that they have to make the rules because they have to base it off of worst case possible.
As they said growing up it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone else...
I've heard sone crazy stuuff at daycare classes and meetings that I am dumb founded anyone would even consider asking such a question.
I remember one lady asked the instructor if she could leave her four biological kids outside all day (all who were under 6) to play so that she could take 8 kids into her daycare. Wth!!!
It's sad that they have to make the rules because they have to base it off of worst case possible.
As they said growing up it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone else...
sharlan 07:07 PM 07-21-2011
Our licensor was talking about a lady who spent the whole day at the park with her kids. As soon as the last one was there, she packed up and off to the park they went. When it was time for the first one to be picked up, they headed home. According to him, it didn't matter if it was rain or shine. She lost her license.
MarinaVanessa 07:10 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
You are correct on everything except the baby swing. Everything else is against our regulations but you can have a swing. No awake babies in the crib/pack n plays, no sleeping babies in the swings. I know because I have one. At first licensing tried telling me no and I went through a big thing with them because I asked for the regulation about the swings. Finally they said ok. If someone from licensing told you no, I'd ask them to tell you in writing that you can't and why. You might be surprised.In CA we can't have baby swings, walkers, bounce seats, exersaucers and children can not be placed in a crib or pack-n-plack if awake...
LIC. rules....I don't have any babies but I think those rules STINK
daycare 07:18 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
You are correct on everything except the baby swing. Everything else is against our regulations but you can have a swing. No awake babies in the crib/pack n plays, no sleeping babies in the swings. I know because I have one. At first licensing tried telling me no and I went through a big thing with them because I asked for the regulation about the swings. Finally they said ok. If someone from licensing told you no, I'd ask them to tell you in writing that you can't and why. You might be surprised.
Thanks for correcting me. I don't have any infants in my care or offer infant care. I'm in northern Cali and I thought that they said no swings. You are correct on everything except the baby swing. Everything else is against our regulations but you can have a swing. No awake babies in the crib/pack n plays, no sleeping babies in the swings. I know because I have one. At first licensing tried telling me no and I went through a big thing with them because I asked for the regulation about the swings. Finally they said ok. If someone from licensing told you no, I'd ask them to tell you in writing that you can't and why. You might be surprised.
I think someone said it correctly too that you can have a swing but not sleeping in them.
MarinaVanessa 07:35 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by daycare:
Thanks for correcting me. I don't have any infants in my care or offer infant care. I'm in northern Cali and I thought that they said no swings.
I think someone said it correctly too that you can have a swing but not sleeping in them.
I hope I didn't come off cross. I just thought that licensing told you no swings and that steams my chicken lol. I hear that licensing tells a lot of CA providers no (even in my area) and I must have been the only one that actuall reads the regulations around here because I made a big stink to my licensor when she told me I could t keep my swing. Apparently no one challenges licensing around here because when I questioned it she had a coniption lmao!! We went back and forth for a few days through phone and finally email until she finally relented and said that swings weren't officially against regs, only frowned upon. I said PPPFFFTTT <----- raspberry. I kept mine.Thanks for correcting me. I don't have any infants in my care or offer infant care. I'm in northern Cali and I thought that they said no swings.
I think someone said it correctly too that you can have a swing but not sleeping in them.
sharlan 07:47 PM 07-21-2011
That's my problem with CA. It is such a big state and it seems like everyone does it their way when it comes to licensing.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
daycare 07:48 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa:
I hope I didn't come off cross. I just thought that licensing told you no swings and that steams my chicken lol. I hear that licensing tells a lot of CA providers no (even in my area) and I must have been the only one that actuall reads the regulations around here because I made a big stink to my licensor when she told me I could t keep my swing. Apparently no one challenges licensing around here because when I questioned it she had a coniption lmao!! We went back and forth for a few days through phone and finally email until she finally relented and said that swings weren't officially against regs, only frowned upon. I said PPPFFFTTT <----- raspberry. I kept mine.
Oh no I'm sorry I know you were being piloted about it. Lol I'm not the best with words and I'm using my iPhone lolI hope I didn't come off cross. I just thought that licensing told you no swings and that steams my chicken lol. I hear that licensing tells a lot of CA providers no (even in my area) and I must have been the only one that actuall reads the regulations around here because I made a big stink to my licensor when she told me I could t keep my swing. Apparently no one challenges licensing around here because when I questioned it she had a coniption lmao!! We went back and forth for a few days through phone and finally email until she finally relented and said that swings weren't officially against regs, only frowned upon. I said PPPFFFTTT <----- raspberry. I kept mine.
LIC can be a pain in the you know what!!
Glad you fought it and was smart about reading your rights. It's not too often that LIC will admit when they are wrong.
Meeko 08:47 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
That's my problem with CA. It is such a big state and it seems like everyone does it their way when it comes to licensing.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
Our training co-ordinator always tells us to question. If you are not sure what the licensor says is right (or feel she's making up her own regs on the spotThat's my problem with CA. It is such a big state and it seems like everyone does it their way when it comes to licensing.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
) ALWAYS ask to see the written reg. If she can't show it to you, then she can't enforce it. It's that simple.
familyschoolcare 09:10 PM 07-21-2011
Originally Posted by Meeko60:
Our training co-ordinator always tells us to question. If you are not sure what the licensor says is right (or feel she's making up her own regs on the spot) ALWAYS ask to see the written reg. If she can't show it to you, then she can't enforce it. It's that simple.
Yes, ask to see it in writing and the actual reg not the high lighted version. Our training co-ordinator always tells us to question. If you are not sure what the licensor says is right (or feel she's making up her own regs on the spot
) ALWAYS ask to see the written reg. If she can't show it to you, then she can't enforce it. It's that simple.During my initial inspection their was a question regarding how I store certain things. I told my lic. rep. that I was told at orientation that this way was allowed. She pulled out the high light regs. I said in other situation that is interpreted to mean that my way of storing is allowed, can I please see the actual regs. and also how are the children safer your way than mine. She then said fine but if they come and check on me there might be a problem.
mom2many 10:50 PM 07-21-2011
In 1986, when I first began my daycare business here in CA "walkers" were not allowed. This made total sense to me, since they were on wheels and could go down stairs...if you had any.
The swing was totally acceptable at this time and those were the only things on the market.
Then bouncy seats became available and these were great for feeding infants and allowing them to be more upright for small periods of time.
Then in 2000, I had an "unannounced" visit, and much to my surprise, the stationary exersaucer, which was a brand new concept to me, was a complete and utter NO NO! I had a parent bring theirs over for me to use, saying their child loved it!
I had it in a back room not even being used st the time and licensing cited me. I had no idea they were even illegal to use
This is a HUGE issue with being in the business for so many years and the constant changes that take place....especially in CA where "common sense" is not even a factor!
I wouldn't be surprised if high chairs are deemed unfit here...this state truly has some whackos in charge!!!!!!!!!
The swing was totally acceptable at this time and those were the only things on the market.
Then bouncy seats became available and these were great for feeding infants and allowing them to be more upright for small periods of time.
Then in 2000, I had an "unannounced" visit, and much to my surprise, the stationary exersaucer, which was a brand new concept to me, was a complete and utter NO NO! I had a parent bring theirs over for me to use, saying their child loved it!
I had it in a back room not even being used st the time and licensing cited me. I had no idea they were even illegal to use
This is a HUGE issue with being in the business for so many years and the constant changes that take place....especially in CA where "common sense" is not even a factor!
I wouldn't be surprised if high chairs are deemed unfit here...this state truly has some whackos in charge!!!!!!!!!
mac60 04:54 AM 07-22-2011
All this just is utterly rediculous. Makes absolutely no sense. My mom tells me that when she was a little girl, her mom (my grandma) would tie her youngest to the clothesline while she was outside working so that he wouldn't wander off and be safe. He is a old man now who served in the armed forces, and he was not damaged by this. They did what they could to keep their children safe.
I find it strange that everyone uses the term "all the time" so freely. I wonder, just how does some one know that something is used "all the time" unless they spend a full day in your home. At the very least, a provider should be able to use the items and go about her day the same as what a parent would.
I currently have a special needs child. 14 mo old. Doesn't sit up, doesn't roll over, doesn't hold her bottle, very delayed. Mom just told me last week to sit her in the highchair as much as possible so that she can strenghthen her back/neck muscles, so she can learn to grab things off the tray, etc. She does not want her laying on the floor doing nothing. The state governments need to butt out of everyones business. Until they have walked a week in our shoes, they just need to go away. They make doing this job much harder.
I find it strange that everyone uses the term "all the time" so freely. I wonder, just how does some one know that something is used "all the time" unless they spend a full day in your home. At the very least, a provider should be able to use the items and go about her day the same as what a parent would.
I currently have a special needs child. 14 mo old. Doesn't sit up, doesn't roll over, doesn't hold her bottle, very delayed. Mom just told me last week to sit her in the highchair as much as possible so that she can strenghthen her back/neck muscles, so she can learn to grab things off the tray, etc. She does not want her laying on the floor doing nothing. The state governments need to butt out of everyones business. Until they have walked a week in our shoes, they just need to go away. They make doing this job much harder.
erinalexmom 05:41 AM 07-22-2011
off topic but MAC...do you have an exercise ball by any chance? if you do you should look into some of the exercises that therapists do with kids on those its cool and it could help your special needs child
mac60 05:46 AM 07-22-2011
no I don't.
sharlan 06:22 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
Yes, ask to see it in writing and the actual reg not the high lighted version.
During my initial inspection their was a question regarding how I store certain things. I told my lic. rep. that I was told at orientation that this way was allowed. She pulled out the high light regs. I said in other situation that is interpreted to mean that my way of storing is allowed, can I please see the actual regs. and also how are the children safer your way than mine. She then said fine but if they come and check on me there might be a problem.
What were you storing, how were you doing it, and what did they want it done? Yes, ask to see it in writing and the actual reg not the high lighted version.
During my initial inspection their was a question regarding how I store certain things. I told my lic. rep. that I was told at orientation that this way was allowed. She pulled out the high light regs. I said in other situation that is interpreted to mean that my way of storing is allowed, can I please see the actual regs. and also how are the children safer your way than mine. She then said fine but if they come and check on me there might be a problem.
I put the magnetic tot locks on all cabinets. For my downstairs shower (niece's), I put 2 refrigerator locks on the shower doors and the guy accepted them. He had a fit over the staircase not having a gate because kids had access when being brought in in the mornings.
Childminder 08:02 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by :
For those veteran providers-20+ years what in the world did you guys do back then before all these were invented or used. Where babies just laid down on the ground with a blanket or something. My oldest daughter 18 had a bouncer/then a walker but we did't have a pnp or a playpen even but she wasn't in a childcare till she was 2. She also was my only one so what did everyone in childcare do?
I had walkers and swings and jumperoos in the 60's when I started childcare. Granted some have been improved greatly and some have been eliminated because of safety issues. Walkers were changed or taken off the market because too many children were tipping over or falling down the stairs. Playpens were wood, like a crib but low to the ground and were changed to the cloth and net ones to make them lighter and more transportable. You should have seen us folding up the wood ones and putting them in a trunk. The trunks were as big as a car is now but the play pens sure were heavy. The jumperoo I had for 30 years and see virtually no difference.For those veteran providers-20+ years what in the world did you guys do back then before all these were invented or used. Where babies just laid down on the ground with a blanket or something. My oldest daughter 18 had a bouncer/then a walker but we did't have a pnp or a playpen even but she wasn't in a childcare till she was 2. She also was my only one so what did everyone in childcare do?
The state steps in and tells us what to use because a few people have abused or unwisely utilized certain items and accidents or deaths have occurred. Common sense is something that is lacking in some people and whether or not they are a provider is irrelevant.
Crystal 08:22 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
What were you storing, how were you doing it, and what did they want it done?
I put the magnetic tot locks on all cabinets. For my downstairs shower (niece's), I put 2 refrigerator locks on the shower doors and the guy accepted them. He had a fit over the staircase not having a gate because kids had access when being brought in in the mornings.
I'm not surprised at all about the stairs. The reg is if you care for children under 5 all stairs must be gated.What were you storing, how were you doing it, and what did they want it done?
I put the magnetic tot locks on all cabinets. For my downstairs shower (niece's), I put 2 refrigerator locks on the shower doors and the guy accepted them. He had a fit over the staircase not having a gate because kids had access when being brought in in the mornings.
nannyde 08:33 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by Childminder:
I had walkers and swings and jumperoos in the 60's when I started childcare. Granted some have been improved greatly and some have been eliminated because of safety issues. Walkers were changed or taken off the market because too many children were tipping over or falling down the stairs. Playpens were wood, like a crib but low to the ground and were changed to the cloth and net ones to make them lighter and more transportable. You should have seen us folding up the wood ones and putting them in a trunk. The trunks were as big as a car is now but the play pens sure were heavy. The jumperoo I had for 30 years and see virtually no difference.
The state steps in and tells us what to use because a few people have abused or unwisely utilized certain items and accidents or deaths have occurred. Common sense is something that is lacking in some people and whether or not they are a provider is irrelevant.
Do you remember the graco play yard that was fold up from the middle? It had a heavy duty mattress pad that was wooden on one side and then cushion on the other and fit flush up to the netting. That was an amazing piece of equipment. Dummy me gave mine away because it took up too much space. You could lift up the mattress and in one yank it was halfed. It had v collapsing railing on the wide side of it.I had walkers and swings and jumperoos in the 60's when I started childcare. Granted some have been improved greatly and some have been eliminated because of safety issues. Walkers were changed or taken off the market because too many children were tipping over or falling down the stairs. Playpens were wood, like a crib but low to the ground and were changed to the cloth and net ones to make them lighter and more transportable. You should have seen us folding up the wood ones and putting them in a trunk. The trunks were as big as a car is now but the play pens sure were heavy. The jumperoo I had for 30 years and see virtually no difference.
The state steps in and tells us what to use because a few people have abused or unwisely utilized certain items and accidents or deaths have occurred. Common sense is something that is lacking in some people and whether or not they are a provider is irrelevant.
Crystal 08:41 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Do you remember the graco play yard that was fold up from the middle? It had a heavy duty mattress pad that was wooden on one side and then cushion on the other and fit flush up to the netting. That was an amazing piece of equipment. Dummy me gave mine away because it took up too much space. You could lift up the mattress and in one yank it was halfed. It had v collapsing railing on the wide side of it.
I remember those....my aunt had one and my Mom had one for the grandbabies. Old school equipment is defintiely much better built than the newer stuff, but then they found reasons for recalls on most of that stuff too.....Do you remember the graco play yard that was fold up from the middle? It had a heavy duty mattress pad that was wooden on one side and then cushion on the other and fit flush up to the netting. That was an amazing piece of equipment. Dummy me gave mine away because it took up too much space. You could lift up the mattress and in one yank it was halfed. It had v collapsing railing on the wide side of it.
nannyde 08:44 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I remember those....my aunt had one and my Mom had one for the grandbabies. Old school equipment is defintiely much better built than the newer stuff, but then they found reasons for recalls on most of that stuff too.....
The V collapsing rail... should not be used in child care. I remember those....my aunt had one and my Mom had one for the grandbabies. Old school equipment is defintiely much better built than the newer stuff, but then they found reasons for recalls on most of that stuff too.....
that's why I love the Jmasons. Everything is built on tension with only horizontal and vertical continuous bars.
One of the main problems with the playpens and cribs now is the inside depth is so shallow. I think we are going to see a huge rise in head injuries from little ones who can pull to stand flying out of them head first. Especially the ones that are sat on four legged pedistals.
mom2many 08:50 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
That's my problem with CA. It is such a big state and it seems like everyone does it their way when it comes to licensing.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
So true! When I had my last debate with licensing over the regs here in CA, the supervisor actually admitted each county can't even agree on how to interpret them! That's my problem with CA. It is such a big state and it seems like everyone does it their way when it comes to licensing.
Each inspector has their own pet peeve that they go after. Things that upset one, doesn't even faze the next one.
sharlan 09:43 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by Crystal:
I'm not surprised at all about the stairs. The reg is if you care for children under 5 all stairs must be gated.
I'm not surprised at all about the stairs. The reg is if you care for children under 5 all stairs must be gated.
My house was licensed without the stairs being gated. I have gates in the family room blocking preventing access to the stairs. I also have a gate in the hallway blocking off access to the diningroom, blocking off access. That area is off limits to daycare kids other than they have to walk past the staircase to get to the bathroom and to get to the front door.
It was a bit of a hassle to find a gate that would work, but I found one.
Crystal 10:06 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
My house was licensed without the stairs being gated. I have gates in the family room blocking preventing access to the stairs. I also have a gate in the hallway blocking off access to the diningroom, blocking off access. That area is off limits to daycare kids other than they have to walk past the staircase to get to the bathroom and to get to the front door.
It was a bit of a hassle to find a gate that would work, but I found one.
I am totally surprised that they licensed it that way, as regs clearly state any FCC serving children under five must have a gate on stairs.....it's one of the actually written regs that cannot be misinterpreted by licensing analysts.....funny how they'll let the real regs slide but make up others as they see fit, huh?! My house was licensed without the stairs being gated. I have gates in the family room blocking preventing access to the stairs. I also have a gate in the hallway blocking off access to the diningroom, blocking off access. That area is off limits to daycare kids other than they have to walk past the staircase to get to the bathroom and to get to the front door.
It was a bit of a hassle to find a gate that would work, but I found one.
erinalexmom 10:52 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by mac60:
no I don't.
My other job is working with special needs kids. If theres ever any way I can help you with ideas for her I would be happy to no I don't.
The high chair thing is a great idea Im glad to see her getting help so young and I bet mom is thankful for you in helping put the plans in place. She's a lucky girl being so loved
familyschoolcare 11:06 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
What were you storing, how were you doing it, and what did they want it done?
I put the magnetic tot locks on all cabinets. For my downstairs shower (niece's), I put 2 refrigerator locks on the shower doors and the guy accepted them. He had a fit over the staircase not having a gate because kids had access when being brought in in the mornings.
Fire arms and ammo. The problem was in the wording locked and stored separately. My hubby is in the navy reserves and we know that the wording locked and stored separate when transporting them in a car, can mean that everything is in one bag fire arms and ammo and the ammo is in a locked box and then the bag is locked. The lic. Rep. tried to tell me that putting the ammo boxes in a separate locked box, (with it own key that was stored in a separate room, and not labeled) inside the big heavy duty safe with the fire arms was not good enough. She wanted me to place the ammo boxes which could be opened with an ax (the safe can not) in a separate room. What were you storing, how were you doing it, and what did they want it done?
I put the magnetic tot locks on all cabinets. For my downstairs shower (niece's), I put 2 refrigerator locks on the shower doors and the guy accepted them. He had a fit over the staircase not having a gate because kids had access when being brought in in the mornings.
I asked her to see the actual regs. and not just the high lighted version because I actually wanted to see it if it had been worded in a manner that she was right I would have done as ask. Even though in my opinion that would have meant the children where less safe. I could not find the actual regs. on this matter and believe me I looked all over the web cite looking for them. I think she did not know where they where either.
Country Kids 11:12 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
Fire arms and ammo. The problem was in the wording locked and stored separately. My hubby is in the navy reserves and we know that the wording locked and stored separate when transporting them in a car, can mean that everything is in one bag fire arms and ammo and the ammo is in a locked box and then the bag is locked. The lic. Rep. tried to tell me that putting the ammo boxes in a separate locked box, (with it own key that was stored in a separate room, and not labeled) inside the big heavy duty safe with the fire arms was not good enough. She wanted me to place the ammo boxes which could be opened with an ax (the safe can not) in a separate room.
I asked her to see the actual regs. and not just the high lighted version because I actually wanted to see it if it had been worded in a manner that she was right I would have done as ask. Even though in my opinion that would have meant the children where less safe. I could not find the actual regs. on this matter and believe me I looked all over the web cite looking for them. I think she did not know where they where either.
Our regs say-Firearms and ammunition kept under lock. Ammunition stored separately from firearms. Firearms must remain unloaded. Fire arms and ammo. The problem was in the wording locked and stored separately. My hubby is in the navy reserves and we know that the wording locked and stored separate when transporting them in a car, can mean that everything is in one bag fire arms and ammo and the ammo is in a locked box and then the bag is locked. The lic. Rep. tried to tell me that putting the ammo boxes in a separate locked box, (with it own key that was stored in a separate room, and not labeled) inside the big heavy duty safe with the fire arms was not good enough. She wanted me to place the ammo boxes which could be opened with an ax (the safe can not) in a separate room.
I asked her to see the actual regs. and not just the high lighted version because I actually wanted to see it if it had been worded in a manner that she was right I would have done as ask. Even though in my opinion that would have meant the children where less safe. I could not find the actual regs. on this matter and believe me I looked all over the web cite looking for them. I think she did not know where they where either.
I take this to me they cannot be kept in the same area. We have ours stored in two different rooms.
familyschoolcare 11:19 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Our regs say-Firearms and ammunition kept under lock. Ammunition stored separately from firearms. Firearms must remain unloaded.
I take this to me they cannot be kept in the same area. We have ours stored in two different rooms.
The problem is I do not know and apparently my lic. rep does not either what the regs says. She was only able to pull up "High lights of regs." which say locked and stored separately they are stored in separate containers and every thing has it own lock. I forgot to mention that the fire arms are unloaded and all of them either have the fire pin pulled out or have a gun lock on them I just do not have another place in my house to put the ammo boxes that I know that a strong determined teen-aged boy ( I have three) could not get at it. If I have to I will pull the ammo boxes out of the safe and place them under my bed. Just do not see how that makes any one in the house safer.Our regs say-Firearms and ammunition kept under lock. Ammunition stored separately from firearms. Firearms must remain unloaded.
I take this to me they cannot be kept in the same area. We have ours stored in two different rooms.
sharlan 11:58 AM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
Fire arms and ammo. The problem was in the wording locked and stored separately. My hubby is in the navy reserves and we know that the wording locked and stored separate when transporting them in a car, can mean that everything is in one bag fire arms and ammo and the ammo is in a locked box and then the bag is locked. The lic. Rep. tried to tell me that putting the ammo boxes in a separate locked box, (with it own key that was stored in a separate room, and not labeled) inside the big heavy duty safe with the fire arms was not good enough. She wanted me to place the ammo boxes which could be opened with an ax (the safe can not) in a separate room.
I asked her to see the actual regs. and not just the high lighted version because I actually wanted to see it if it had been worded in a manner that she was right I would have done as ask. Even though in my opinion that would have meant the children where less safe. I could not find the actual regs. on this matter and believe me I looked all over the web cite looking for them. I think she did not know where they where either.
This is all it says regarding fire arms and ammo.............Fire arms and ammo. The problem was in the wording locked and stored separately. My hubby is in the navy reserves and we know that the wording locked and stored separate when transporting them in a car, can mean that everything is in one bag fire arms and ammo and the ammo is in a locked box and then the bag is locked. The lic. Rep. tried to tell me that putting the ammo boxes in a separate locked box, (with it own key that was stored in a separate room, and not labeled) inside the big heavy duty safe with the fire arms was not good enough. She wanted me to place the ammo boxes which could be opened with an ax (the safe can not) in a separate room.
I asked her to see the actual regs. and not just the high lighted version because I actually wanted to see it if it had been worded in a manner that she was right I would have done as ask. Even though in my opinion that would have meant the children where less safe. I could not find the actual regs. on this matter and believe me I looked all over the web cite looking for them. I think she did not know where they where either.
(4) Poisons, detergents, cleaning compounds, medicines, firearms and other items which could pose
a danger if readily available to children shall be stored where they are inaccessible to children.
(A) Storage areas for poisons, firearms and other dangerous weapons shall be locked.
(B) In lieu of locked storage of firearms, the licensee may use trigger locks or remove the
firing pin.
1. Firing pins shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
(C) Ammunition shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
CALIFORNIA-DSS-
e.j. 12:07 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by erinalexmom:
off topic but MAC...do you have an exercise ball by any chance? if you do you should look into some of the exercises that therapists do with kids on those its cool and it could help your special needs child
Just wanted to say we used an exercise ball with my son; he loved it!!!off topic but MAC...do you have an exercise ball by any chance? if you do you should look into some of the exercises that therapists do with kids on those its cool and it could help your special needs child
He always looked forward to the excercises we would do with him and as he grew older, he used it by himself as a chair which was great for building up his muscles and for increasing stability and balance.
He also used to bring it outside and as he bounced on it, he would spin it so it would move forward, almost like riding in a wheelchair. He got so good at it that he could move on the ball as quickly and easily as he could if he were walking or running.
At 20, he still prefers to sit on one of those balls instead of a chair. He has one in his room and sits on it when he plays video games.
Country Kids 12:41 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
The problem is I do not know and apparently my lic. rep does not either what the regs says. She was only able to pull up "High lights of regs." which say locked and stored separately they are stored in separate containers and every thing has it own lock. I forgot to mention that the fire arms are unloaded and all of them either have the fire pin pulled out or have a gun lock on them I just do not have another place in my house to put the ammo boxes that I know that a strong determined teen-aged boy ( I have three) could not get at it. If I have to I will pull the ammo boxes out of the safe and place them under my bed. Just do not see how that makes any one in the house safer.
I have teenagers also. They actually have no idea where ourrearms are stored or the ammunition is kept. I never did it to hide it from them but to satisfy the regs. When I showed my liscensor she saw what it took to get to them and said she would have never guessed to look there for a firearm. If I had teenagers and I couldn't trust them then I wouldn't have the firearms in my home. My children know we have firearms but never badger us or ask us where they are.The problem is I do not know and apparently my lic. rep does not either what the regs says. She was only able to pull up "High lights of regs." which say locked and stored separately they are stored in separate containers and every thing has it own lock. I forgot to mention that the fire arms are unloaded and all of them either have the fire pin pulled out or have a gun lock on them I just do not have another place in my house to put the ammo boxes that I know that a strong determined teen-aged boy ( I have three) could not get at it. If I have to I will pull the ammo boxes out of the safe and place them under my bed. Just do not see how that makes any one in the house safer.
erinalexmom 02:37 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by e.j.:
Just wanted to say we used an exercise ball with my son; he loved it!!!
He always looked forward to the excercises we would do with him and as he grew older, he used it by himself as a chair which was great for building up his muscles and for increasing stability and balance.
He also used to bring it outside and as he bounced on it, he would spin it so it would move forward, almost like riding in a wheelchair. He got so good at it that he could move on the ball as quickly and easily as he could if he were walking or running.
At 20, he still prefers to sit on one of those balls instead of a chair. He has one in his room and sits on it when he plays video games.
Thanks EJ yes they are wonderful for working your core which is one problem with special needs kids sometimes. I see the therapists use them all the time. I think they are awsome Just wanted to say we used an exercise ball with my son; he loved it!!!
He always looked forward to the excercises we would do with him and as he grew older, he used it by himself as a chair which was great for building up his muscles and for increasing stability and balance.
He also used to bring it outside and as he bounced on it, he would spin it so it would move forward, almost like riding in a wheelchair. He got so good at it that he could move on the ball as quickly and easily as he could if he were walking or running.
At 20, he still prefers to sit on one of those balls instead of a chair. He has one in his room and sits on it when he plays video games.
familyschoolcare 05:32 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
This is all it says regarding fire arms and ammo.............
(4) Poisons, detergents, cleaning compounds, medicines, firearms and other items which could pose
a danger if readily available to children shall be stored where they are inaccessible to children.
(A) Storage areas for poisons, firearms and other dangerous weapons shall be locked.
(B) In lieu of locked storage of firearms, the licensee may use trigger locks or remove the
firing pin.
1. Firing pins shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
(C) Ammunition shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
CALIFORNIA-DSS-
Thank you where did you get this I could not find it and like I posted earlier I tried to find it.This is all it says regarding fire arms and ammo.............
(4) Poisons, detergents, cleaning compounds, medicines, firearms and other items which could pose
a danger if readily available to children shall be stored where they are inaccessible to children.
(A) Storage areas for poisons, firearms and other dangerous weapons shall be locked.
(B) In lieu of locked storage of firearms, the licensee may use trigger locks or remove the
firing pin.
1. Firing pins shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
(C) Ammunition shall be stored and locked separately from firearms.
CALIFORNIA-DSS-
sharlan 05:52 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
Thank you where did you get this I could not find it and like I posted earlier I tried to find it.
Thank you where did you get this I could not find it and like I posted earlier I tried to find it.
CALIFORNIA-DSS-MANUAL-CCL
MANUAL LETTER NO. CCL-97-15 Effective 11/5/97
Page 38
So many gray areas open to interpretation.
familyschoolcare 06:08 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
CALIFORNIA-DSS-MANUAL-CCL
MANUAL LETTER NO. CCL-97-15 Effective 11/5/97
Page 38
So many gray areas open to interpretation.
alright so how doe one get one of those that is not what is on the web cite.CALIFORNIA-DSS-MANUAL-CCL
MANUAL LETTER NO. CCL-97-15 Effective 11/5/97
Page 38
So many gray areas open to interpretation.
sharlan 06:36 PM 07-22-2011
Originally Posted by joynerportia@yahoo:
alright so how does one get one of those that is not what is on the web site.
http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/ord/PG296.htmalright so how does one get one of those that is not what is on the web site.
familyschoolcare 09:00 AM 07-23-2011
