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Old 04-20-2013, 09:17 AM
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Default What Happens After You File A Complaint?

I am considering filing a complaint on a home daycare that I pulled my child from. I do not want her to lose her license or anything like that, but I do want future parents to see the complaint and think twice before they place their kids in her care, and most of all, I want her to realize that she cannot treat kids like that and say things like that to them.

She made a sarcastic/unnecessary comment to my child out of anger. I also have a couple other smaller complaints, but this was the main issue. It was meant to hurt me, but in turn it hurt my child psychologically. It makes me wonder what else she has said to him in the heat of the moment.

When I picked my son up, he said, "I'm always mean here" to me. Of course, I told him that he's not mean because God gave him a nice heart and you can't change that. Sometimes he doesn't do the right thing, but he's not mean. I asked the daycare worker how he did that day. To make a long story short, she said that he was in time out and kept saying that he's always mean there. She told me (and I quote), "He kept saying that in time out. I told him to tell his mom that when she gets here so that maybe she'll believe me."

In my opinion, this is malicious, emotional abuse. She decided at some abstract point in time that she didn't like me (I had already given my notice and the next day was to be his last day in her care) so she was trying to egg me on. She had already sent me a passive aggressive text two days before and I did not respond. It worked, he will not be returning.

What would happen if I decided to file a complaint? Would anything come of it or would they just slap her wrist (which is all I want)?
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:55 AM
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Unless I'm missing something that yup havnt explained in your post, I don't think that this commented alone warrants a complaint to licensing. Licensing is for situations that are unsafe or dangerous for children. I'm not sure that the one comment alone would warrant that.

Although it's not appropriate reporting the child care provider for that incident alone seems like such a severe reaction IMO. Maybe you can elaborate on the details of your situation a little more and describe what else she has said, the frequency, for how long it has been going on, and the reason as to why she does not like you etc. That would be helpful.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:18 AM
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Of course. I looked that the state regulations for licensing. One of the regulations says:

"Acts prohibited: ... (2) subjecting children to punishment of a psychological nature, such as humiliation,
making derogatory or sarcastic remarks about them or their families, or using harsh
or profane language, or making actual or implied threats of physical punishment;"

Her comment definitely falls in this category, IMO. I had to sit down afterwards with my son, hold him, and tell him to never, ever, EVER believe anyone that tells you that you're mean. He has been coming home telling me that other kids there are "bad" and "mean" and that he's "bad" and "mean." He's 5 and has never said those things before being in her care. Every time I explain that they are not "bad" or "mean" they just don't do the right thing sometimes. There is never any reason to beat a child down and ruin their self-esteem. It's wrong and I consider it emotional abuse.

My other complaint is that she keeps children in time-out for too long. One time, my son had to stay in time out until we got there to pick him up from the time that she called us... it was a minimum of 20 minutes, maybe closer to 30, that he was in time out. She also told me herself that she typically does one minute per year of age... unless they do something really bad and then they stay there longer. The same regulations that I quoted above also says: (10) uses "time-out" periods only as necessary to enable the child to gain control of
himself or herself. Time-out periods do not exceed five minutes. No more than one minute per year of age...

As to why she doesn't like me... I imagine it's because I asked her to alter her discipline for my son. He does not respond well to time out and never has. It just doesn't work for him. She wouldn't even consider my other suggestions that work better for him (redirection... only staying in time out until he calms down and is ready to apologize, etc). When we left her care she said, "I hope the next daycare he's at doesn't discipline him like you want." She also told me in the same conversation (with my son right there... I had to cover his ears while she was saying it because she shouldn't have said it in front of him) "I wish I could tell you that he's a sweet boy, but he's not!"
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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I didn't have time to add everything, but now I do.

My child has Sensory Processing Disorder and ADHD. He is very impulsive. He's a good kid, but if you take an already impulsive child that doesn't like to be touched and has vestibular issues, pick him up, and carry him to time out... umm... of course he's going to kick you and hit you the whole way there. His whole world was just turned upside down. She did not get this at all. She wouldn't listen to reason. She thought that I didn't want her to discipline him at all when that is completely not true... you just can't do it THAT way with him.

She threw it in my face once that I didn't tell her about the sensory processing until the morning before he started (instead of at the interview when I told her that he has ADHD and is very impulsive). I didn't tell her because it wasn't formally diagnosed yet (it has been since and he's started treatment - it was only suspected at the time) and it's hard to explain sometimes. People often associate it with Autism and he doesn't have Autism. My response to that is that she had 3 trial weeks with him in which she could dismiss him at any time with no notice and didn't, so she doesn't have a right to say that I didn't disclose that to her.

He was in her care for about 5 weeks total. When I asked her to alter her discipline she told me that she would not make any modifications for him. I said, "Well, if you're not willing to work with him, then when would you like his last day to be?" We agreed on a week notice and she was hostile and passive aggressive to me that whole week.

That should give you a better idea of the situation.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I didn't have time to add everything, but now I do.

My child has Sensory Processing Disorder and ADHD. He is very impulsive. He's a good kid, but if you take an already impulsive child that doesn't like to be touched and has vestibular issues, pick him up, and carry him to time out... umm... of course he's going to kick you and hit you the whole way there. His whole world was just turned upside down. She did not get this at all. She wouldn't listen to reason. She thought that I didn't want her to discipline him at all when that is completely not true... you just can't do it THAT way with him.

She threw it in my face once that I didn't tell her about the sensory processing until the morning before he started (instead of at the interview when I told her that he has ADHD and is very impulsive). I didn't tell her because it wasn't formally diagnosed yet (it has been since and he's started treatment - it was only suspected at the time) and it's hard to explain sometimes. People often associate it with Autism and he doesn't have Autism. My response to that is that she had 3 trial weeks with him in which she could dismiss him at any time with no notice and didn't, so she doesn't have a right to say that I didn't disclose that to her.

He was in her care for about 5 weeks total. When I asked her to alter her discipline she told me that she would not make any modifications for him. I said, "Well, if you're not willing to work with him, then when would you like his last day to be?" We agreed on a week notice and she was hostile and passive aggressive to me that whole week.

That should give you a better idea of the situation.
Honestly, if it was suspected, you should have told her about the issue. I am no longer a daycare provider, rather a special education teacher. I don't know your child, and would never make random assumptions on a child that I hadn't met, but I do think it is important for you to find a provider who is comfortable with special needs kids.

As for the report; if you believe that she is a danger to other children, that she is acting in a way that is psychologically damaging, report her. It doesn't matter what the result is for her, that is for licensing to decide.

If you believe she is good provider and the report is about making a point, then I would let it go.

Good luck! Have you considered a program that specializes in special needs kids? Great way to get ready for school!
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jen View Post
Honestly, if it was suspected, you should have told her about the issue. I am no longer a daycare provider, rather a special education teacher. I don't know your child, and would never make random assumptions on a child that I hadn't met, but I do think it is important for you to find a provider who is comfortable with special needs kids.

As for the report; if you believe that she is a danger to other children, that she is acting in a way that is psychologically damaging, report her. It doesn't matter what the result is for her, that is for licensing to decide.

If you believe she is good provider and the report is about making a point, then I would let it go.

Good luck! Have you considered a program that specializes in special needs kids? Great way to get ready for school!
That's why I decided to tell her before he started. When I told her she said that she also has a child with cerebral palsy and one with Asperger's. She said it in a way (at the time) that made me think she was competant and okay with this. Later (when I gave her the notice that we were leaving) she told me that if she had known she would have seriously reconsidered and put thought into whether or not she could handle it as well as the others. While you're right, I should have told her in the interview, she could have said that it just wasn't going to work at any time in those first 3 weeks; that was the agreement.

I'm waiting a few days to file the complaint for that exact reason. I want to make sure that I'm doing it for the welfare of the kids and not to "win." Of course, right now I'm angry and it's obviously both. I'm waiting until I cool off and then I'll decide. The longer I've been thinking about it, the more I'm leaning towards she-just-can't-treat-kids-that-way. I'm still not sure.

As for a program that specializes in special needs... that would be great. I haven't found one in my area yet. Are you thinking a Montessori type, a program through the public school, or are there daycares that specialize in special needs? Right now he's commuting half-day to pre-k at the local public school and he's doing AMAZING there. He has a great teacher that completely gets it and he's excelling there. A special needs daycare may be a possibility through the summer though. I have already contacted his kindergarten principal about placing him with an experienced teacher that will work well with him like his pre-k teacher and mentioned that he will probably need a Section 504 for modifications when he starts. He wouldn't qualify for an IEP though because he's a bright kid and his disorders don't affect his education... yet.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:02 AM
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They teach us not to say you are bad, you are mean etc but children are smart they have lots of language and everything you say or happens they believe is about them.... example if parents get divorced they think it is something they did wrong.

So if your child did something like take a toy away, hit, anything wrong and she said that is a mean thing to do to your friend. Or even that is not a nice way to treat your friend. ALl your child heard is you are mean even if it was never said.

even adults are like that if your dh says I do not like how those pants fit your rear. I bet you heard your butt is fat.

My son is ADD a grown up now but really that does not matter. He always thought the worst of himself. saying I am mean here is something he would have said. I think he would have meant I have trouble controlling myself here in this setting.

I know for sure his child thinks this way . In fact the school suggested a quiet place for him so we are sending a small tent just for him to calm down.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:49 AM
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Before I begin I just want to say that it might sound as if I am against you but I just wanted to make points to some of the things that you (the OP) said but from the point of view of a child care provider. Although based on what you posted some of the way that the provider handled the situation was unprofessional I just want to try to give you some insight from the daycare side.

From having the experience of being a mom of a ADHD child I know how frustrating it can be with daycare/schools etc. Believe me when I say this probably won't be the last time you hear something like this as well, especially when it comes to your child's behavior.

My DD has ADHD and impulse control issues which stems from the ADHD and we have had trouble with it in child care (before I started my own daycare) and in school. Behavioral issues almost always come hand in hand with ADD or ADHD children so the fact that your child has ADHD and a sensory processing disorder was probably a bite too big for your provider to chew on. Maybe she didn't understand the severity of the situation, maybe there was miscommunication ... who knows. In any case here are my 2 cents based on everything OP posted. (now that I have had time to think about it and post).

Quote:
What would happen if I decided to file a complaint? Would anything come of it or would they just slap her wrist (which is all I want)?
If you file a complaint with licensing a case will be opened up and licensing will either phone the provider, go out to her home to investigate or both. In this situation since you will be filing a complaint that she was emotionally abusive to your child they will more than likely go to her home and investigate in person. Emotional abuse is a serious allegation and she may/may not have to close down her daycare until the investigation is complete, that is a decision that licensing will make. She will be questioned about her discipline etc. and the other parents will probably also be called and be questioned to see if they have seen or heard anything suspicious of this nature. After completing their investigation (which could take a few hours to a few days/weeks) licensing will determine whether the accusations were conclusive (true), untrue or inconclusive (that they cannot determine whether or not the allegations happened). Regardless of the outcome this complaint and the outcome remain in the child care providers file for as long as she remains licensed.

Quote:
She made a sarcastic/unnecessary comment to my child out of anger. I also have a couple other smaller complaints, but this was the main issue. It was meant to hurt me, but in turn it hurt my child psychologically. It makes me wonder what else she has said to him in the heat of the moment.
If what you are talking about here was about the comment she made about "I hope the next daycare he's at doesn't discipline him like you want." ... and "I wish I could tell you that he's a sweet boy, but he's not!" although very inappropriate and unprofessional I really doubt that she was trying to "hurt" you per say ... ADHD children are extremely high maintenance kids and she probably was just in over her head if she had never had a child like this in her care before.

One of the reasons that I finally made the leap to do child care was due to the fact that my DD was ADHD and I realized that it was unfair to expect a daycare center or family child care provider to be able to spend the amount of time redirecting and correcting her behavior the way that was needed. My other option was a nanny which I could not afford and since I had been toying with the idea of becoming licensed myself I went ahead and did so, so that I could devote the attention that my daughter needed. When she started school although I did not want to medicate her I realized that she would be a handful for her teachers and that was unfair to the other children, to the teacher and to the school so we found a non-narcotic that helped her.

As a parent I think you might want to think about how maybe a smaller group setting or better trained individuals (like it seems that you are already doing) is the better option for you and your child.

Quote:
she said that he was in time out and kept saying that he's always mean there. She told me (and I quote), "He kept saying that in time out. I told him to tell his mom that when she gets here so that maybe she'll believe me."
To me this sounds like a cry for help from an exasperated provider. I think she is feeling like you don't believe that your child does "mean" things (from your quote). I wonder of she told your son "You are mean" or if she said "that's mean" ... that would be the equivalent to saying "that's not nice" but your aren't telling the child "you're not nice". That's another thing to think about which would make a lot of difference.

If you still feel that strongly about it and feel in your heart of hearts that your provider intentionally emotionally abused your child then please do file a complaint. Or call licensing and ask them to see whether it warrants an investigation. Only you were there.

Quote:
"Acts prohibited: ... (2) subjecting children to punishment of a psychological nature, such as humiliation,
making derogatory or sarcastic remarks about them or their families, or using harsh
or profane language, or making actual or implied threats of physical punishment;"
Just so that you are aware, the part above that you quoted is the regulation against emotional and physical abuse which are very serious allegations. If you think your child was emotionally abused then please yes report it. If it is severe enough CPS could possibly get involved. Licensing will tell you if that is the case and will recommend for you to report it to CPS if that is the case (or report it themselves).

Quote:
My other complaint is that she keeps children in time-out for too long. One time, my son had to stay in time out until we got there to pick him up from the time that she called us... it was a minimum of 20 minutes, maybe closer to 30, that he was in time out. She also told me herself that she typically does one minute per year of age... unless they do something really bad and then they stay there longer. The same regulations that I quoted above also says: (10) uses "time-out" periods only as necessary to enable the child to gain control of
himself or herself. Time-out periods do not exceed five minutes. No more than one minute per year of age...
If she is keeping the children in time out longer than what your state regulations allow then this is a direct violation in of itself and this can and should definitely be reported. This will warrant at least a citation and the complaint, report and outcome will remain in her file while the provider remains licensed.

Quote:
My child has Sensory Processing Disorder and ADHD. He is very impulsive. He's a good kid, but if you take an already impulsive child that doesn't like to be touched and has vestibular issues, pick him up, and carry him to time out... umm... of course he's going to kick you and hit you the whole way there. His whole world was just turned upside down. She did not get this at all. She wouldn't listen to reason. She thought that I didn't want her to discipline him at all when that is completely not true... you just can't do it THAT way with him.
I just wanted to point out that had I have had your child in my daycare and even with my own experience and training with ADHD children and depending on your child's age (I don't know how old your child is) any type of physical aggression towards myself or any others while in my care would warrant at minimum an immediate probationary period with a plan of action in place to improve this behavior and at maximum (depending on age, developmentally and severity of the situation) immediate termination. Physical aggression, although common in children in certain age ranges is extremely serious, dangerous and a huge liability and so unless a plausible plan of action could be put in place that works in my child care setting I wouldn't be able to or want to keep an aggressive child in my child care.

I don't say this in a mean way at all I just want you to put yourself in a provider's shoes for a moment ...
Had it been your child that was non-aggressive and your child saw another child be violently aggressive (hitting, kicking biting) towards the provider for whatever reason would you be okay with that? Would you worry about whether your own child could be hit? What if it was your child that was kicked at or hit by another aggressive child and you asked the provider what measures were being taken to unsure the safety of your child and the provider told you that she would follow the instructions of the parent of the offending child and "redirected" him/her etc. Would you feel that your child is safe?

I really believe that the provider was not equipped with the proper training or knowledge to handle a child with ADHD and that your child is in a much better environment now that your child is out of the care of the previous provider.

Quote:
She threw it in my face once that I didn't tell her about the sensory processing until the morning before he started (instead of at the interview when I told her that he has ADHD and is very impulsive). I didn't tell her because it wasn't formally diagnosed yet (it has been since and he's started treatment - it was only suspected at the time) and it's hard to explain sometimes. People often associate it with Autism and he doesn't have Autism. My response to that is that she had 3 trial weeks with him in which she could dismiss him at any time with no notice and didn't, so she doesn't have a right to say that I didn't disclose that to her.
As long as you told her that there could be other issues that your child could have (if that were the case and you were continuing to follow up with your child's doctor to diagnose other possibilities) and notified her as soon as your child received the additional diagnosis then you did all you could.

Quote:
He was in her care for about 5 weeks total. When I asked her to alter her discipline she told me that she would not make any modifications for him. I said, "Well, if you're not willing to work with him, then when would you like his last day to be?" We agreed on a week notice and she was hostile and passive aggressive to me that whole week.
I think that parents sometimes don't see the whole picture when it comes to group care. Please realize that your provider is a small business owner and offers services that she decides on, she has clients ... not bosses. She works for herself, she does not work for her clients. Much like how other small business owners work she sets her rules and policies and determines how she wants to run her business. Parents then decide whether or not the services and rules meet their needs and if not, they move on. If the services do meet their needs then they choose to use the provider for child care knowing that they must follow the way that the provider runs the daycare.

Group care is harder to individualize when you are home daycare provider than let's say a daycare center because in most cases it is only one person caring for all of the children instead of many other employees than can help. I for one, would also have not changed my discipline procedures for one client. For me it would be too difficult and would open up the door to other clients feeling like they should be entitled to having "special" for their child as well. If I change my discipline for one child I must then be open to the idea of changing the discipline procedures for the other children as well. For me that would not work and would create too much chaos and would defeat the purpose of running my own business. Although I personally can accommodate some things for children, it still has to be conducive to group care.

Regardless of her reason for refusing to change her discipline for your child she did what she felt was the right thing for herself and her business by refusing to change the way she runs her business and you did the correct thing by identifying that your needs could not be met by the provider and moved on. That's the best outcome for the both of you.

Quote:
When I told her she said that she also has a child with cerebral palsy and one with Asperger's. She said it in a way (at the time) that made me think she was competant and okay with this. Later (when I gave her the notice that we were leaving) she told me that if she had known she would have seriously reconsidered and put thought into whether or not she could handle it as well as the others.
I think the provider at the time felt that she could handle another child with a condition (perhaps the other 2 children were not as high maintenance???) and didn't know she was biting more than she could chew. Because one of the other children with conditions has cerebral palsy I doubt that child has aggressive tendencies and perhaps neither does the other child (with aspergers) ?

Quote:
While you're right, I should have told her in the interview, she could have said that it just wasn't going to work at any time in those first 3 weeks; that was the agreement.
Maybe having 3 children with disabilities was too much and she tried to keep your child on as long as possible hoping that he would get acclimated to the new routine? In any case your child is doing great now and is in a better place.

So to recap ... If you feel that your previous child care provider is damaging to the emotional state of children and that it's in the best interest of the children to file a complaint then do so. Good luck, I hope that you find another provider that can meet your child's needs.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:51 AM
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Of course. I looked that the state regulations for licensing. One of the regulations says:

"Acts prohibited: ... (2) subjecting children to punishment of a psychological nature, such as humiliation,
making derogatory or sarcastic remarks about them or their families, or using harsh
or profane language, or making actual or implied threats of physical punishment;"

Her comment definitely falls in this category, IMO. I had to sit down afterwards with my son, hold him, and tell him to never, ever, EVER believe anyone that tells you that you're mean. He has been coming home telling me that other kids there are "bad" and "mean" and that he's "bad" and "mean." He's 5 and has never said those things before being in her care. Every time I explain that they are not "bad" or "mean" they just don't do the right thing sometimes. There is never any reason to beat a child down and ruin their self-esteem. It's wrong and I consider it emotional abuse.

My other complaint is that she keeps children in time-out for too long. One time, my son had to stay in time out until we got there to pick him up from the time that she called us... it was a minimum of 20 minutes, maybe closer to 30, that he was in time out. She also told me herself that she typically does one minute per year of age... unless they do something really bad and then they stay there longer. The same regulations that I quoted above also says: (10) uses "time-out" periods only as necessary to enable the child to gain control of
himself or herself. Time-out periods do not exceed five minutes. No more than one minute per year of age...

As to why she doesn't like me... I imagine it's because I asked her to alter her discipline for my son. He does not respond well to time out and never has. It just doesn't work for him. She wouldn't even consider my other suggestions that work better for him (redirection... only staying in time out until he calms down and is ready to apologize, etc). When we left her care she said, "I hope the next daycare he's at doesn't discipline him like you want." She also told me in the same conversation (with my son right there... I had to cover his ears while she was saying it because she shouldn't have said it in front of him) "I wish I could tell you that he's a sweet boy, but he's not!"
Did you talk to her during the interview process to ask about her discipline policy?

Her saying that if she'd have known your child has SPD she wouldn't have taken him on says to me you should have told her. IMO it's very unfair and bad parenting to not disclose behavioural issues especially since you were getting him diagnosed/help. Just because she kept your son on during the trial period does not absolve you of wrong doing.

I have an 8 year old with SPD, undiagnosed until last year, yet I still conferenced with teachers about it before then because it is not something everyone is able to deal with/handle.

Also, as a parent of a child with SPD I see many other parents in clear denial about how hard the child's behaviour is on others around them: teachers, family, siblings, school mates, and how much they want others to cater to their child's behaviours.

Hopefully you learned from this to 1) Be upfront about your child's needs and 2) Read the all the policys and/or ask about them.

I have no comments about the DCP's behaviour. It's really best you left to get your child care that suits his needs.
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