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  #1  
Old 07-28-2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Modern Parenting

With a lot of the threads and posts that I have seen lately, it makes me wonder, are parents today TRYING to spend the least amount of time that they have to spend with their kids? I get the parent who HAS to work to feed the family and must put the kid(s) in daycare. What continues to baffle my mind are the ones who want to run around before or after work and get all their errands done without the kids, go out on the weekend (or every day that they have off of work), take vacations while dumping the kid with relatives, etc. Sure, parents need a break from time to time, but when you add this all up, the actual parents are only spending 30 - 35 waking hours a WEEK with their kids. FYI - there are 168 hours in a week. Even if the kid sleeps for 1/2 that, it still adds up to 84 hours a week (awake). That's not even 1/2 their waking hours or 1/4 of their total hours in a week.

As a provider, I was this so much. Since I was getting paid to watch these children, it didn't bother me to watch them. What bothered me was the pain I knew these children must have had from being separated from mom and dad (especially dad) for so long so much of the time. It really bothered me to see the pain and know there was nothing I could do about it.

On the flip side, it always seemed like the single moms. The 2 parent families tended to spend every moment with their kids that they could. But maybe it was an age thing. The single moms tended to be younger, while the 2 parent families tended to be older (with the exception of 1 young family that was awesome and mature beyond words).

I fear that we may be raising a generation of children not fully connected to the world because the parents were too selfish to be INVOLVED and spent much of their time trying to stay away from their kids. I worry about the ramifications of this tpe of "me first" parenting.

For the record, I am NOT talking about the occasional time away from your kids. Everyone needs a break. I'm talking about the ones that seem to ALWAYS, every week, spend additional ("break time") away from their kids in addition to work / school time away.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:22 AM
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I have one family that has two girs ages six and two and the parents work so much because they like to be away from these two girls. They are the biggest brats around they get everything but the one thing that is missing is the parents time with them. I was counting up hours one day and Monday through Friday they spend about 24 hours with these girls that to me is very sad someday they will realize and it will be too late.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:25 AM
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I think as the parents get older, they will regret these decisions....
I couldn't image not having my time with my kids!!!
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:17 AM
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I was just talking this over with a friend of mine...she had an excellent point.

It seems that peaple have stopped raising their children in favor of simply letting them grow up.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by professionalmom View Post
I worry about the ramifications of this tpe of "me first" parenting.

For the record, I am NOT talking about the occasional time away from your kids. Everyone needs a break. I'm talking about the ones that seem to ALWAYS, every week, spend additional ("break time") away from their kids in addition to work / school time away.

Basically it comes back to the same old thing - kids who spend ALL their time possible in daycare.

Well, I know YOU know the ramifications but for others:

Quote:
The Importance of Secure Bonding between Children and Parents by M.L. Genuis, from the Journal of Empathetic Parenting, before March 2000

(meta-analysis shows)...non-parental care for more than 20 hours per week has an unmistakably negative effect...children need their parents when children need their parents, NOT when it is convenient for the parent.

Quote:
Who Cares? Making informed choices about childcare by Vivienne Reiner, ByronChild Progressive Parenting (Australia), p32-39 March-May 2005

Of course it is a rare parent who would put their babies in care if they thought it was bad for them. ?The pain many parents feel at leaving their infants in childcare is dulled by the belief by most that they like it. But Under Five in Britain, a study of children in child-minding and day nurseries in Oxfordshire, reveals most children do not like to be in childcare. It finds that a startling two-thirds are passive and unresponsive during their stay, with one-quarter being actively clinically distressed or disturbed --- having deeply disturbed language development or sever behavioural difficulties.
The survey concluded that no-one can replicate the mothering experience: 'there is no reason to believe minding someone else's children on a regular basis is the same sort of activity as looking after children in one's own home. Every bit of research that has been undertaken on this subject testifies to the contrary.

But HERE is the money shot:
Quote:
The Trouble With Day Care
(Are Scientists Telling Parents the Whole Truth?) by Heide Lang, Psychology Today, p17-18 May/June 2005


But the latest findings, from a huge, long-term government study, are worrisome. They show that kids who spend long hours in day care have behavior problems that persist well into elementary school.
...Developmental psychologists are sweeping this information under the rug, hoping studies will churn out better data soon...
Recent evidence from the study shows that the total number of hours a child is without a parent, from birth through preschool matters. The more time in child care of any kind or quality, the more aggressive the child, according to results published in Child Development.
What if, Belsky asks, "kids experiencing long hours in day care are more likely to use drugs, are less ambitious and have trouble with relationships? Parents will say, 'How come no one warned me?' It is our scientific responsibility to tell people what they may not want to know....


Read this whole article of a government funded study citing that the more time a child spends in daycare the MORE detrimental it is to them...............

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...ouble-day-care
.

It's sad, really it is. We have ALL this research and all these crime statistics following an entire generation in daycare showing us that the more time a child spends in NON parental care the larger and more significant are the problems they develop. But yet we continue to dump our kids in daycare for longer and longer UNNECESSARY hours.

One day it is going to come back and bite us in the ass. Hell, I think it already IS!
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by judytrickett View Post
Basically it comes back to the same old thing - kids who spend ALL their time possible in daycare.

Well, I know YOU know the ramifications but for others:

It's sad, really it is. We have ALL this research and all these crime statistics following an entire generation in daycare showing us that the more time a child spends in NON parental care the larger and more significant are the problems they develop. But yet we continue to dump our kids in daycare for longer and longer UNNECESSARY hours.

One day it is going to come back and bite us in the ass. Hell, I think it already IS!
But the parents ignore all this research and then blame the daycare provider for not being "good enough". I had one parent who was working FT and going to school. Now I do admire that fact that she was trying to pull off the impossible. Dad skipped the country and was nonexistent in the child's life. DCB was in my care for the following schedule:
M 7:30a - 10:30p = 15 hrs
T 11am - 10:30p = 11.5 hrs
W 7:30a - 10:30p = 15 hrs
Th 7:30a - 11a = 3.5 hrs
F - Sun = eslewhere because mom had maxed out DHS hours and would have to pay my OT rate of $5 per hr for any additional hrs.
Total hours just in MY care = 45 hrs (within a 75.5 hrs time span)!!!!
Then she complained that DCB didn't like it at my house because he cried when mom left! FYI - he was fine within minutes (usually 60-90 seconds). Oh, and he was barely 2 years old!
But it was all MY fault. It COULDN't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that he was 2 and missed his mommy and didn't even know his daddy. (sarcasm!!!)

Why aren't these studies being reported on the nightly news or something? Is child safety second to the "comfort" of the parent and only reported when it's "convenient for the parents?"

We, daycare providers, love what we do (or did), but we should the "last resort" for parents, when it is just not possible for them to provide for their kids without some daycare. Even then, it should be for the least possible time. For instance, with 2 income families, they should TRY (not always possible, but if it is, then try) to work opposing shifts to minimize time in daycare. All of my "golden" families understood this, even though they were my PTers and often the lowest money.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:46 PM
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yes as providers they love us and we love them but we are not their parents but some would rather work and never spend a day with their kids I only have one family that will pick up their child early or take a day off with him just very sad
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:31 PM
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Wow! I came onto this forum looking for a few answers and stumbled across this thread. Here's another spin on "modern parenting"- Most of us don't go to work out of boredom. Or because we're looking for a hobby. It's to provide for our kids, same as you. And more often than not, it's to compensate for the "fathers" out there who don't have a clue or desire to be a provider or even a presence in their kids lives. And it really, truly does suck that some jobs have really sucky hours. But in 2010, you can't exactly design your dream job and have it magically appear. We do what we have to do. And as a single mother through no fault of my own, it's particularly difficult to hand off my little girls everyday. There is absolutely nothing in the world that I would rather do than be a stay at home mom to my children. But then we wouldn't even have a home! Short of winning the lottery, there is no way I can ever achieve that status as a stay at home mom. And it breaks my heart every single day. So maybe a little more compassion and less judgment on working mothers. And I am one of them that will do errands between work and daycare! I would rather my 1 year old be playing and having fun than getting in and out of the car and being drug around in 90 degree heat. I'd rather race as fast as I can and get it done first.
And, by the way, I am 39 and have 2 little girls, 6 and 1.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:58 PM
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There may be a silver lining to all this.....

We all know a few idiots who have bred and are now raising children. (your results may vary)

If the parents are idiots, then they will have less time for their idiocy to rub off on their offspring, and maybe, just maybe, the cycle of stupid may be broken.

It's a long shot in the dark, but it just may happen........
__________________
Spouse of a daycare provider....which I guess makes me one too!
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chickenhauler View Post
There may be a silver lining to all this.....

We all know a few idiots who have bred and are now raising children. (your results may vary)

If the parents are idiots, then they will have less time for their idiocy to rub off on their offspring, and maybe, just maybe, the cycle of stupid may be broken.

It's a long shot in the dark, but it just may happen........
Thanks for the hope!
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jen View Post
I was just talking this over with a friend of mine...she had an excellent point.

It seems that peaple have stopped raising their children in favor of simply letting them grow up.
Very nicely stated.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JustMom View Post
Wow! I came onto this forum looking for a few answers and stumbled across this thread. Here's another spin on "modern parenting"- Most of us don't go to work out of boredom. Or because we're looking for a hobby. It's to provide for our kids, same as you. And more often than not, it's to compensate for the "fathers" out there who don't have a clue or desire to be a provider or even a presence in their kids lives. And it really, truly does suck that some jobs have really sucky hours. But in 2010, you can't exactly design your dream job and have it magically appear. We do what we have to do. And as a single mother through no fault of my own, it's particularly difficult to hand off my little girls everyday. There is absolutely nothing in the world that I would rather do than be a stay at home mom to my children. But then we wouldn't even have a home! Short of winning the lottery, there is no way I can ever achieve that status as a stay at home mom. And it breaks my heart every single day. So maybe a little more compassion and less judgment on working mothers. And I am one of them that will do errands between work and daycare! I would rather my 1 year old be playing and having fun than getting in and out of the car and being drug around in 90 degree heat. I'd rather race as fast as I can and get it done first.
And, by the way, I am 39 and have 2 little girls, 6 and 1.
You do not sound like the type of parent I was wondering about. There are parents out there that spend less than 20-30 waking hours a week with their children, not because they HAVE to be away that much, but because they DESIGN it that way. Between work, school, running errands, dating, vacation or "mental health" days, etc., they are almost never with their children.

Also, please do not describe yourself as a "single mom", if you are not one. If you are widowed, divorced, etc., please say that instead. When someone tells me that they are a "single parent", I assume that it means never married, got knocked up, etc. In that case, it wouldn't be "through no fault of my own", because you did cause it by having sex (rape being the exception).

Also, I do have a lot of compassion for working mothers. My mother was one. I was one - even though I worked at home, running a daycare. Sadly, there seems to be a movement that parents should live life to the fullest while leaving their kids in daycare and that scares me. However, women like you who are on your own, trying to spend as much time as possible with your kids and minimize their time in daycare are to be applauded for your strength and dedication. Sadly, I have seen quite the opposite and my heart bleeds for those children.

As for the parent I described, I stated that I admired her dedication to try to do it all. What bothered me was her BLAMING me for her child having issues at drop-off. I wasn't the problem. The lack of time with mom was the problem, not that I'm "blaming" her either. But how can someone blame me when a 2 year old child is confronted with NO mommy time?
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:54 PM
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so, if you think parents that don't spend enough time with their children aren't doing the right thing, then why are you enabling them?

you know, if daycare didn't exist, more moms would have to stay home and take care of their children.

go on strike against these moms!
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:37 AM
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[quote=professionalmom;38292].

Also, please do not describe yourself as a "single mom", if you are not one. If you are widowed, divorced, etc., please say that instead. When someone tells me that they are a "single parent", I assume that it means never married, got knocked up, etc. In that case, it wouldn't be "through no fault of my own", because you did cause it by having sex (rape being the exception).


I described myself as a single mom because that is what I am. I am not widowed or divorced. I am the only parent who takes care of, provides for, and basically does everything for my children. Their father might see them for an hour once every 3 or 4 weeks, if he's not too busy with other "recreational" activities. And the "through no fault of my own" applied to the single aspect, not the fact that I am a parent. Are you serious? But thanks for wanting to know the exact method of conception. If I did happen to be a rape victim, how would you feel right now?
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:58 AM
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this is a debate that will go on until the end of time......

i just want to say that i am one of those parents who HAVE to work to make ends meet. i have just been blessed to be able to do it from home in a profession i love.

no point to this reply, i suppose...just my 2 cents.....lol
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by melskids View Post
this is a debate that will go on until the end of time......

i just want to say that i am one of those parents who HAVE to work to make ends meet. i have just been blessed to be able to do it from home in a profession i love.

no point to this reply, i suppose...just my 2 cents.....lol
Then you are either a home daycare provider OR you are just like us. Home daycare providers are WORK-AT-HOME parents, but still WORKING parents. Many people forget that we are actually working. And we are working because we HAVE to also. We just chose to it at-home, just like you.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JustMom View Post
And I am one of them that will do errands between work and daycare! I would rather my 1 year old be playing and having fun than getting in and out of the car and being drug around in 90 degree heat. I'd rather race as fast as I can and get it done first.
And, by the way, I am 39 and have 2 little girls, 6 and 1.
I want to offer this to you in the most respectful way possible. I know it is very easy to believe that your children are better off at daycare than running errands with you, but I can promise you that your children will be happier to see you show up early. Running those errands with you may end up being one of their favorite memories.

I understand it is easier for you to leave them at daycare, faster without having to get them in and out of carseats, but please don't think that they would rather be at daycare than with you. It is a matter of convenience for you, not them.
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:38 PM
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I do not subscribe to pawning my child off to anyone else for any reason other than work but that is because I was fortunate enough to be raised in a stay at home mom family. And I wholeheartedly believe that has made the difference in how I parent vs what you describe as modern parenting.

The fact of the matter is that a shift in society has been brewing for decades that has created what ProMom described: parents who elect to devote time to activities for themselves. Go back to the 1800's or even early 1900's where we have cold hard documented evidence of family dynamics. Did the mom stay at home? Yeah, she was at home but she was busy tending to the garden or doing house chores. A nanny raised the children. My father was born in 1938 and he was raised by a live-in nanny. His mom was responsible for keeping up the massive garden which provided food for the family of 8 (plus live-in helpers) along with doing all of the household duties. My Dad's father held down the job. This really was very common during this era. Then society changed again where jobs became open to women and women were encouraged to get out in the workplace. Women wanted to work to liberate themselves. Then ultimately it became a necessity for women to work to provide dual income so that family's could achieve the ridiculous idea of The American Dream. Now, take that on thru to the early 90's where the American Dream lifestyle spanned out to include self luxuries like pedicures, spa treatments, mental days, etc. The younger generation of women were born into all of this ideology that society has perpetuated for as long as their parents have been alive. So, really what do you expect modern-age parents to do? This is how majority society has encouraged women to live.

Do not look for short term change in this way of life either. In fact, expect it to get worse because more people will find the need for dual family incomes as the cost of living continues to increase and their families expand. Americans are encouraged to spend to maintain the USA economy and world economy. Americans will continue to want to have everything because having everything in society's perception signifies that you have achieved something great. This cycle will perpetuate for longer than you or I will live.

Here's a funny story--my son attended a locally owned daycare center. The owner of this daycare told me that her center was successful and that I could see how successful the center has been because she drove an 80k Mercedes. This coming from a middle-aged woman......who gave her the idea that success is determined by your possessions? SOCIETY.

So sit back and be thankful that women are going to work and placing their children in your care. You being the childcare provider has income because of this. And if you believe that studies prove that children who have absent parents suffer, then look at yourself as the hero....these children care for YOU and the time you are giving them. Perhaps you can make a difference in a child's life.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Aya477 View Post
I do not subscribe to pawning my child off to anyone else for any reason other than work but that is because I was fortunate enough to be raised in a stay at home mom family. And I wholeheartedly believe that has made the difference in how I parent vs what you describe as modern parenting.

The fact of the matter is that a shift in society has been brewing for decades that has created what ProMom described: parents who elect to devote time to activities for themselves. Go back to the 1800's or even early 1900's where we have cold hard documented evidence of family dynamics. Did the mom stay at home? Yeah, she was at home but she was busy tending to the garden or doing house chores. A nanny raised the children. My father was born in 1938 and he was raised by a live-in nanny. His mom was responsible for keeping up the massive garden which provided food for the family of 8 (plus live-in helpers) along with doing all of the household duties. My Dad's father held down the job. This really was very common during this era. Then society changed again where jobs became open to women and women were encouraged to get out in the workplace. Women wanted to work to liberate themselves. Then ultimately it became a necessity for women to work to provide dual income so that family's could achieve the ridiculous idea of The American Dream. Now, take that on thru to the early 90's where the American Dream lifestyle spanned out to include self luxuries like pedicures, spa treatments, mental days, etc. The younger generation of women were born into all of this ideology that society has perpetuated for as long as their parents have been alive. So, really what do you expect modern-age parents to do? This is how majority society has encouraged women to live.

Do not look for short term change in this way of life either. In fact, expect it to get worse because more people will find the need for dual family incomes as the cost of living continues to increase and their families expand. Americans are encouraged to spend to maintain the USA economy and world economy. Americans will continue to want to have everything because having everything in society's perception signifies that you have achieved something great. This cycle will perpetuate for longer than you or I will live.

Here's a funny story--my son attended a locally owned daycare center. The owner of this daycare told me that her center was successful and that I could see how successful the center has been because she drove an 80k Mercedes. This coming from a middle-aged woman......who gave her the idea that success is determined by your possessions? SOCIETY.

So sit back and be thankful that women are going to work and placing their children in your care. You being the childcare provider has income because of this. And if you believe that studies prove that children who have absent parents suffer, then look at yourself as the hero....these children care for YOU and the time you are giving them. Perhaps you can make a difference in a child's life.
Now this is why I love this site. This is an excellent post.

One thing I would add is what I call the "point and click". I think that this generation of parents are so used to so much of their lives being done with something so simple as a point and click or a touch touchpad that when things get hard their brains are just not wired to tolerate it. I see this with little kids. I can tell when a kid is playing with primarily battery operated toys. They want to do a little and get a big response.

It may sound trite but I think as humans we can easily get into the mindset that in order for things to be good they have to be easy. It's only good when it's good.

When in the history of human beings have we had SO much of our lives be a simple click or touch away? Really think about that.

As a provider one thing I look for in day care parents is finding ones that have a farm background. The ones who have been raised on a farm have the life experience of things being difficult, time consuming, and no end answer. There's no button to push to clean crap out of a stall. There's no button to push to weed a garden.

I also prefer oldest children in the family who have younger.. specially way younger sibs. These parents also know how to work. If they were relied upon during their childhood to do chores and contribute to the family then when their kid comes along they aren't overwhelmed by the amount of work and organization it takes to get er done.

These are the types of parents who aren't afraid of their kids, aren't afraid of the work their kids bring, and aren't afraid to discipline their kids. All of my day care parents are married. Out of all of my parents at least one of the couple comes from these two backgrounds. Out of 16 parents only four are not from this kind of background.

When I do my three interviews before I decide on a family I ask them extensively about their families and their childhood. It gives me insight to whether or not they will be the type of parents I like working for. These are the stable families that pay and stay (in my experience).

I agree too that this won't be solved in our life time BUT the seeds are being planted now.

Great post. Moral: We need to get a grip.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Aya477 View Post
So sit back and be thankful that women are going to work and placing their children in your care. You being the childcare provider has income because of this. And if you believe that studies prove that children who have absent parents suffer, then look at yourself as the hero....these children care for YOU and the time you are giving them. Perhaps you can make a difference in a child's life.
I did thank God everyday that I had daycare kids in my care. Although I shut down only a week ago (health / high risk pregnancy), I knew that each and every day, I was giving my DC kids something that their parents could not (and in some cases, would not) give them at home - whether it was stability, a man role-model (my husband, in the evenings), love, attention, affection, life skills training (baking a cake, grocery shopping, loading a dishwasher, etc), or whatever need I was able to fill. They all loved me. i can not think of even one who did not. I have been told that I am the bestest cooker in the world, the funnest mom, the coolest daycare, etc.

I just wish that we, as a society, would get back to the old ways of raising families. You know, where daycares were not needed. Moms could stay home because dads "manned up" and took care of the family they made. I think I mentioned it once before, if the women who wanted to stay at home just left their jobs (go on strike), then it would free up a lot of jobs for men and start a reversal of the current unemployment rate and breath a whole new life into our economy. Am I glad that people needed daycare so I could stay home and get paid to do something I love? Absolutely! But do I wish daycares were not needed and that children were instead being raised by their own parents? You bet. I think it would be the absolutely, hands-down best reason to be out of a job!

I loved your post and can not wait to hear (or read) more from you in the future.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nannyde View Post
When in the history of human beings have we had SO much of our lives be a simple click or touch away? Really think about that.
GASP!! You mean there really isn't an easy button and that Earth-shattering dilemmas are not solved in under 30 minutes!?

Nanny, I've said this a million times (ok, maybe only 10) - I love you! And I'm thrilled to see that we may have another person who "gets it" like Judy, you, and I do.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:45 AM
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Thanks Pro-Mom. I'm definitely a little different in my thinking and I hope you enjoy.

I guess what I was trying to get at is the practice of someone other than Mom (or Dad) raising the children throughout the day is not new. I know I didn't state this, but because history shows that a huge number of children were raised by caregivers for hundreds of years, I don't believe that having a child in care causes any type of negative behavior or outcome. Now, having a child in care with a volatile individual probably would have a negative impact. But the general idea that a child in care for more than 30/40+ hours per week is causing the youth to be involved in crime and the like...I don't buy into that. No article or small sample study would convince me otherwise.

The problem is society and the expectations that society places on individuals to live a certain way, have certain luxuries, focus attention to their own interests. This is what the majority society has encouraged people to partake in. Even children have been considered "must haves" because that's what their friends have or want. Clearly, this is not what you and I believe, fortunately.

I also think about this--why has society placed so much pressure on parents and schools to push children to be the top of the class, the best player on the team, participate in the most elite circle activities, be involved in a variety of activities, learn beyond their age and development, and become independent sooner than they should. Personally, I think this is why some children are becoming aggressive, dropping out of school, taking up drug use, engage in crime in their teens. It has nothing to do with being in childcare because childcare is supposed to provide a nurturing environment. Then you have employers pushing the employees (parents) to do more at work, assign hard to meet deadlines, attend this, attend that. Parents are under pressure so they want to escape their responsibilities for a moment and indulge in something for themselves which does put their kids on the backburner. Kids are under pressure and they react as kids do which is with outbursts. This all makes for what we see day to day in life. Oh and add all that to the fact that you can be a total failure and still have someone (the government) keep you up? Yep, sure makes it easy for some people and as Nanny said...easy equates to good in some people's minds. And as a society, we do need to get a grip. It doesn't mean that a parent has to stay home with their child to develop a quality adult. It means that as a society, we need to cut back on our demands, expectations & perceptions so that the push to be more and have more is diminished.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:03 AM
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I also think about this--why has society placed so much pressure on parents and schools to push children to be the top of the class, the best player on the team, participate in the most elite circle activities, be involved in a variety of activities, learn beyond their age and development, and become independent sooner than they should. Personally, I think this is why some children are becoming aggressive, dropping out of school, taking up drug use, engage in crime in their teens. It has nothing to do with being in childcare because childcare is supposed to provide a nurturing environment. Then you have employers pushing the employees (parents) to do more at work, assign hard to meet deadlines, attend this, attend that. Parents are under pressure so they want to escape their responsibilities for a moment and indulge in something for themselves which does put their kids on the backburner. Kids are under pressure and they react as kids do which is with outbursts. This all makes for what we see day to day in life. Oh and add all that to the fact that you can be a total failure and still have someone (the government) keep you up? Yep, sure makes it easy for some people and as Nanny said...easy equates to good in some people's minds. And as a society, we do need to get a grip. It doesn't mean that a parent has to stay home with their child to develop a quality adult. It means that as a society, we need to cut back on our demands, expectations & perceptions so that the push to be more and have more is diminished.
I wouldn't disagree with you that pushing children beyond their abilities is too much pressure, but keeping children involved and active in sports and other extra-curricular activities is proven to be a protective factor against substance abuse and drop out rates. Lack of parental involvment is a proven risk factor. It isn't a limited study...I can provide you with numerous, large scale studies that span years.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:47 AM
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I wouldn't disagree with you that pushing children beyond their abilities is too much pressure, but keeping children involved and active in sports and other extra-curricular activities is proven to be a protective factor against substance abuse and drop out rates. Lack of parental involvment is a proven risk factor. It isn't a limited study...I can provide you with numerous, large scale studies that span years.
You are right about being involved in extra-curricular activities AND parental involvement are the best ways to keep kids away from drugs, sex, bad grades, etc. However, I think many parents (not all) use these activites as "babysitters" rather than for their true intended purpose - to have fun and learn social, organizational, and fairness skills. From the studies I have seen, parental involvemnet is the biggest factor in whether a child will veer off course. If the parent(s) is/are there from the time the child gets out of school, through the evening, and on the weekends, extra-curricular activies do not help or hurt. But if the parent can't be there all of that time, then the extra-curricular activities do make a huge difference. However, we also have to be mindful of having them involved with too much stuff. Studies have shown that children who are busy all day with school, practices, events, and homework, with little down time to just have fun, tend to show signs of stress from irritability (just like overworked, overwhelmed adults ) to substance abuse issues (popping uppers just to stay awake) and everything in between. It can also cause them to think that they are worthless unless they take on so much and succeed at everything - making little perfectists. So we need to make sure there is a balance - just enough to protect them, but not enough to overwhelm them. And definitely never make a kid do some after-school activity that (s)he has no interest in. If he wants to be in science club instead of soccer, don't push soccer. If she hates softball, don't push it just because mom did it or mom and think she should. Find their interest and encourage THAT.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:11 PM
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I did thank God everyday that I had daycare kids in my care. Although I shut down only a week ago (health / high risk pregnancy), I knew that each and every day, I was giving my DC kids something that their parents could not (and in some cases, would not) give them at home - whether it was stability, a man role-model (my husband, in the evenings), love, attention, affection, life skills training (baking a cake, grocery shopping, loading a dishwasher, etc), or whatever need I was able to fill. They all loved me. i can not think of even one who did not. I have been told that I am the bestest cooker in the world, the funnest mom, the coolest daycare, etc.

I just wish that we, as a society, would get back to the old ways of raising families. You know, where daycares were not needed. Moms could stay home because dads "manned up" and took care of the family they made. I think I mentioned it once before, if the women who wanted to stay at home just left their jobs (go on strike), then it would free up a lot of jobs for men and start a reversal of the current unemployment rate and breath a whole new life into our economy. Am I glad that people needed daycare so I could stay home and get paid to do something I love? Absolutely! But do I wish daycares were not needed and that children were instead being raised by their own parents? You bet. I think it would be the absolutely, hands-down best reason to be out of a job!

I loved your post and can not wait to hear (or read) more from you in the future.
daycares weren't just not needed because men "manned up" but also because women were oppressed. women fought for years to be able to have the same jobs as men (even though they STILL don't get paid the same) so obviously if "the good old days" were THAT good - they wouldn't have worked so hard to change the way things were.

i really don't see how women who DO want to stay at home quitting their jobs would do anything for them unless it was their own husband that was unemployed and took the job! some people can't afford to go a month or even a week without working.

raising your kids might be a good reason to be out of a job (which is a matter of opinion because you can do both) but not everyone has family support - financially or otherwise. they HAVE to pay their own bills and they HAVE to use daycare - unless they want to live in a shelter.
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:20 PM
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daycares weren't just not needed because men "manned up" but also because women were oppressed. women fought for years to be able to have the same jobs as men (even though they STILL don't get paid the same) so obviously if "the good old days" were THAT good - they wouldn't have worked so hard to change the way things were.

i really don't see how women who DO want to stay at home quitting their jobs would do anything for them unless it was their own husband that was unemployed and took the job! some people can't afford to go a month or even a week without working.

raising your kids might be a good reason to be out of a job (which is a matter of opinion because you can do both) but not everyone has family support - financially or otherwise. they HAVE to pay their own bills and they HAVE to use daycare - unless they want to live in a shelter.
I find it odd that people are still using the term "oppressed" to describe women in the pre-feminist movement. Women in those days took care of the children, cooked cleaned, did the laundry, did the gradening, etc. What do women do today? The exact same thing PLUS they now have less time to do it in because many of them are working outside the home. Some women from that era described themselves as oppressed because they wanted to escape the housework and kids. Fine. But don't try to convince everyone else that they are less of a person because they like being at home. And many women did like being home in those days. That never gets reported because no one wants to hear stories about people who are happy. We like conflict. We are drawn to stories of oppression, depression, challenges, and struggles.

I have always supported (and will always support) the feminist movement as it was originally intended - to give women choices and equal pay for equal work. But, like many things, I do think it was taken to the other extreme.

I have worked in various fields in the corporate, legal, and medical fields, for many companies full of female employees. Many, if not most, of them wanted to be at home and not work. But they felt that they had not choice. That sounds pretty oppressive to me - not having a choice. Many of these women were racing to drop kids off at school and daycare to get to work, then racing to pick up the kids and get them to their activities on time after work (skipping lunch to fit in the mandatory OT or be able to get out early so they can get to their kids on time), running through a drive-thru for dinner, racing home around 9pm to help with homework, showers, and crash in bed, usually around or past midnight. Some were on the verge of divorce, wanting to reliquish custody to their husbands because they were at their wits end. Many were on anti-depressants just to get through the day. One of my best friends put her foot down and told her husband that she was giving 2 weeks notice at work and that she would now be an at-home mom. He freaked at first. She and I went to lunch a month after she quit working. She looked fabulous! Hair was done nicely, makeup perfect, no bags under her eyes, etc. She had been exercising, more involved in her church and her long-lost hobbies. She looked happy. She looked alive! She said her kids were actually getting along for once (they often used words like "hate" and "wish you were dead" before mom quit), her house never looked as organized, and her husband changed his tune because their marriage had improved in EVERY way. She finally had time to devote to her family and they were ALL thriving more than she could have ever dreamed. She even told me - oppression is not having a choice and letting it consume you to the point where you are not allowed to live, but merely exist and constantly running on a treadmill that never ends. She said, that once she made the decision to take charge of her life and jump off that treadmill, she found freedom. From a former corporate mom, now stay-at-home mom of the 21st century.

I can cite example after example of this occurring in this day and age. I'm not saying women weren't oppressed at all back in the 50's and earlier. It's great that we have gained acceptance in the workplace. But, it has almost become a prison for many women. In my personal experience, I would estimate that 70-80% of the women I have worked with, worked because they did not have a choice or they "thought" they did not have a choice, but if given the choice, they would stay home and raise their kids.

QualiTcare, I understand that YOU like working outside the home. I have nothing against that. For some families, it works and it sounds like it works for you and your family. I applaud you. However, I have seen many, many women in the workplace who just feel trapped and "oppressed" because society does not support their desire to be at home and raise their children and / or they "need" the extra income. (Side note: for single parent families, it's not "extra" income, it's THE income and is a different ball of wax that I am not talking about in these particular comments). You are blessed to be able to do what you want and work outside the home. I am blessed because I worked my tushie off to be able to be at home with my DD and future twins, which is what I wanted. I just wish EVERY woman had the CHOICE to raise her children as she sees fit and not be forced TO WORK or forced NOT TO WORK.

As for women (who WANTS to be at home and has a spouse) quitting their jobs, it would better the economy. First, it would create a vacancy in the job market, which could be filled by a man (or woman) currently on unemployment. For every woman who voluntarily leaves the workforce, vacancies are created, which can be filled by those on unemployment. Fewer people on unemployment results in less of a strain on state government (welfare systems), lowered unemployment rates. Then there would eventually be a shift in the supply / demand. If the unemployment rate drops from 18% to 5%, that will place employees in a much better position to bargain for better wages, better benefits, fewer hours (a.k.a. less OT), etc. I'm not sure how this couldn't be a positive.

Obviously this works for the 2 income family going down to 1 income. It would be very difficult at first. However, as I showed in the example, we would be putting the employees into a better bargaining position and the husbands out there will be able to bargain for higher wages and salaries, which would bring in more income to the family. Now this would not work if it would put the family on assistance. But there are many, many ways to cut back on expenses, which would make the need for the second income, obsolete. It jsut takes creative budgeting.
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:23 PM
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I find it odd that people are still using the term "oppressed" to describe women in the pre-feminist movement. Women in those days took care of the children, cooked cleaned, did the laundry, did the gradening, etc. What do women do today? The exact same thing PLUS they now have less time to do it in because many of them are working outside the home. Some women from that era described themselves as oppressed because they wanted to escape the housework and kids. Fine. But don't try to convince everyone else that they are less of a person because they like being at home. And many women did like being home in those days. That never gets reported because no one wants to hear stories about people who are happy. We like conflict. We are drawn to stories of oppression, depression, challenges, and struggles.

I have always supported (and will always support) the feminist movement as it was originally intended - to give women choices and equal pay for equal work. But, like many things, I do think it was taken to the other extreme.

I have worked in various fields in the corporate, legal, and medical fields, for many companies full of female employees. Many, if not most, of them wanted to be at home and not work. But they felt that they had not choice. That sounds pretty oppressive to me - not having a choice. Many of these women were racing to drop kids off at school and daycare to get to work, then racing to pick up the kids and get them to their activities on time after work (skipping lunch to fit in the mandatory OT or be able to get out early so they can get to their kids on time), running through a drive-thru for dinner, racing home around 9pm to help with homework, showers, and crash in bed, usually around or past midnight. Some were on the verge of divorce, wanting to reliquish custody to their husbands because they were at their wits end. Many were on anti-depressants just to get through the day. One of my best friends put her foot down and told her husband that she was giving 2 weeks notice at work and that she would now be an at-home mom. He freaked at first. She and I went to lunch a month after she quit working. She looked fabulous! Hair was done nicely, makeup perfect, no bags under her eyes, etc. She had been exercising, more involved in her church and her long-lost hobbies. She looked happy. She looked alive! She said her kids were actually getting along for once (they often used words like "hate" and "wish you were dead" before mom quit), her house never looked as organized, and her husband changed his tune because their marriage had improved in EVERY way. She finally had time to devote to her family and they were ALL thriving more than she could have ever dreamed. She even told me - oppression is not having a choice and letting it consume you to the point where you are not allowed to live, but merely exist and constantly running on a treadmill that never ends. She said, that once she made the decision to take charge of her life and jump off that treadmill, she found freedom. From a former corporate mom, now stay-at-home mom of the 21st century.

I can cite example after example of this occurring in this day and age. I'm not saying women weren't oppressed at all back in the 50's and earlier. It's great that we have gained acceptance in the workplace. But, it has almost become a prison for many women. In my personal experience, I would estimate that 70-80% of the women I have worked with, worked because they did not have a choice or they "thought" they did not have a choice, but if given the choice, they would stay home and raise their kids.

QualiTcare, I understand that YOU like working outside the home. I have nothing against that. For some families, it works and it sounds like it works for you and your family. I applaud you. However, I have seen many, many women in the workplace who just feel trapped and "oppressed" because society does not support their desire to be at home and raise their children and / or they "need" the extra income. (Side note: for single parent families, it's not "extra" income, it's THE income and is a different ball of wax that I am not talking about in these particular comments). You are blessed to be able to do what you want and work outside the home. I am blessed because I worked my tushie off to be able to be at home with my DD and future twins, which is what I wanted. I just wish EVERY woman had the CHOICE to raise her children as she sees fit and not be forced TO WORK or forced NOT TO WORK.

As for women (who WANTS to be at home and has a spouse) quitting their jobs, it would better the economy. First, it would create a vacancy in the job market, which could be filled by a man (or woman) currently on unemployment. For every woman who voluntarily leaves the workforce, vacancies are created, which can be filled by those on unemployment. Fewer people on unemployment results in less of a strain on state government (welfare systems), lowered unemployment rates. Then there would eventually be a shift in the supply / demand. If the unemployment rate drops from 18% to 5%, that will place employees in a much better position to bargain for better wages, better benefits, fewer hours (a.k.a. less OT), etc. I'm not sure how this couldn't be a positive.

Obviously this works for the 2 income family going down to 1 income. It would be very difficult at first. However, as I showed in the example, we would be putting the employees into a better bargaining position and the husbands out there will be able to bargain for higher wages and salaries, which would bring in more income to the family. Now this would not work if it would put the family on assistance. But there are many, many ways to cut back on expenses, which would make the need for the second income, obsolete. It jsut takes creative budgeting.
well, it WAS oppression because like you said - they didn't have the CHOICE to go to work. some women may have been happy staying at home just like there are women today who are happy staying at home. the difference is -women today have a CHOICE and OPTIONS that they didn't have before. women today may "feel oppressed" but they aren't REALLY - not like women used to be. yeah, they may not be able to quit work because they can't figure out how to do it and stay financially stable - but the OPTION is still there. lots of women don't vote - but the OPTION is there - they CAN vote.

you say don't make people feel like less of a person because they want to stay home. i say don't make people feel like less of a parent because they want to work. that's not to you, but everyone that talks crap (the ones that "get it")

just like there are children who would like to spend more time with their parents - there are children who are homeschooled that would love to go to school. i watched a documentary with 4 high school kids that WANTED to go to school. i DO think there are mothers who use being with their children as an excuse NOT to work just as much as there are working mothers that use work as an excuse to not be with their children. it works both ways.

i saw not long ago you said you're moving in with relatives due to finances. what if you didn't have relatives to move in with? lots of people don't. some people may have that as an option but they'd never consider it. if my option was to be a stay at home parent and move in with my in-laws or work and have my own home - i'd choose to work. everyone's priorities are different. i think MOST mothers have their children on the top of their priority list, and providing for their children (food, clothing, shelter) requires them to have a job.

it's easy for daycare providers to talk about how mothers should spend more time with their kids because they're staying at home with theirs and getting PAID by these working mothers. if every mother stayed at home, all daycare providers would be out of a job. that little factor seems to be overlooked.
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