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  #1  
Old 05-21-2012, 05:37 AM
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Default Seriously? They Actually Showed Up Today?

I termed a family last week (with 2 week notice) for several reasons. The straw that broke the camel's back was that they kept bringing dcb sick to care.

I sent him home 2 times with diaharrea last week. He didnt show up Friday.

He showed up today and DCM said he STILL is not having normal BM's! She said it is more like coffee grounds and not diaharrea, although they never called what was going on with him last week diaharrea either.

I accepted him into care today, but now I am having second thoughts. I suppose I will wait and see if he has more diaharrea today? I am trying my best to be really nice here but I can't lie- two weeks can't come fast enough!

Last edited by Michael; 05-21-2012 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:12 AM
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And they didn't pay today?

I just checked my account and...nothing. It is always in the account monday morning.

What now?
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:13 AM
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My advice is that if this kid has a blow out today, send him home and tell them they can't come back. I know you gave them a 2-week notice, but if it's still happening, then maybe the week of them not having care will be enough to get this kid healthy again.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:13 AM
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And they didn't pay! Call that parent NOW and send the child home. For good.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:36 AM
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I would have to agree. First they say he still isn;t have normal BM's, and then on top of it they didn't pay their bill. It's time to call the parent and tell them they need to pick up immediately.
I'm sorry they are doing this to you.
Hope your day gets better.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:48 AM
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Call the parent and tell them to pay immediately (I am assuming it shows to the account right away when paid) or pick up their child within 30 minutes (meaning leave NOW and come get him NOW).
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:53 AM
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I agree with the others. Pay now or get your kid NOW!

I'm thinking something passive/aggressive is going on here....
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:20 AM
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I also feel like they are being passive aggressive. Both parents defriended me on Facebook (after practically stalking me and my friends trying to send a friend request for weeks), then had a no call no show Friday, then brought him today and said he isn't having normal BM's, then didn't send their payment! I am trying so hard to end things on good terms since they were referred to me by my best friend, and they are long time friends with her. I also want to make sure I don't get sued for anything, since my contract says 2 weeks and I don't have any immediate termination clause in it. He hasn't had any BM's today yet. I want to tread very carefully, mostly because I don't want to be sued, so I feel like if I just call them and tell them to get him and not come back they will have some kind of legal grounds, if that makes any sense. Or am I being paranoid? I'm planning on telling them to get him if he has any more diaharrea, and I will tell them he cannot return tomorrow without payment for the week in full. Otherwise, I feel like I have to cover myself. I absolutely hate having to go through this.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:26 AM
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I would call the parent at work to let them know that their payment was not received as usual and that they need to bring payment at pick up. I would also monitor his health and at the slightest hint of a problem I would call for pick up.

My first thought on the payment thing is they were looking for care over the weekend/Friday but their new provider couldn't start today, so they are stringing you along for a couple of extra days of care and trying to do it without paying, which is why I would require payment today (and preferably in cash ).
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:51 AM
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Do you have a form that parents sign when you term that lists reasons?

I can see them coming to get the child and then reporting you. I know you are legally unlicensed but that doesn't mean they can't report you...kwim?

I would call them and have them pay IMMEDIATELY or come get the child and I would also have them sign a statement stating that you termed due to not being able to meet their needs (caring for their sick child) and for NON-Payment.....actually there is your immediate out if you wanted it....they didn't pay so they are done. period.

Might be better off to go that route and simply be done all together.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:00 AM
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Do you have a form that parents sign when you term that lists reasons?

I can see them coming to get the child and then reporting you. I know you are legally unlicensed but that doesn't mean they can't report you...kwim?

I would call them and have them pay IMMEDIATELY or come get the child and I would also have them sign a statement stating that you termed due to not being able to meet their needs (caring for their sick child) and for NON-Payment.....actually there is your immediate out if you wanted it....they didn't pay so they are done. period.

Might be better off to go that route and simply be done all together.
I agree with this. Keep us updated. It sucks you have to deal with this.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:12 AM
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Not only do you have the excuse they didn't pay, but how about the fact that mom herself admitted HE'S STILL SICK.


There's nothing from a legal standpoint that could force anyone to provide care to a child with diarrhea that isn't being medically treated, or hold them financially responsible for any sort of contract in the same regard.
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:20 AM
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I termed a family last week (with 2 week notice) for several reasons. The straw that broke the camel's back was that they kept bringing dcb sick to care.

I sent him home 2 times with diaharrea last week. He didnt show up Friday.

He showed up today and DCM said he STILL is not having normal BM's! She said it is more like coffee grounds and not diaharrea, although they never called what was going on with him last week diaharrea either.

I accepted him into care today, but now I am having second thoughts. I suppose I will wait and see if he has more diaharrea today? I am trying my best to be really nice here but I can't lie- two weeks can't come fast enough!
Coffee grounds in vomit or a bowel movement is usually curtled old blood. I would not be humming and hawing over what to do here as baby needs to go to the dr ASAP. I'm so worried about the little guy and your liability if he were to become violently ill while in your care. You know he is sick. Call for pick up. At this point too I'd call CPS and report if you don't hear they have taken him to the Dr. He needs to be seen.

The nonpayment is just the icing on the cake for me. I dont envy this situation at all.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Do you have a form that parents sign when you term that lists reasons?

I can see them coming to get the child and then reporting you. I know you are legally unlicensed but that doesn't mean they can't report you...kwim?

I would call them and have them pay IMMEDIATELY or come get the child and I would also have them sign a statement stating that you termed due to not being able to meet their needs (caring for their sick child) and for NON-Payment.....actually there is your immediate out if you wanted it....they didn't pay so they are done. period.

Might be better off to go that route and simply be done all together.
I do not have a form that they sign that lists reasons. I wish I did. Another thing I will be incorporating into my PHB, thanks to this family. I just text them and said that his payment did not come through as usual, and would they like to try again or bring cash/check at pick up? I then gave them a brief update on their child (said he has not had any BM's yet and is currently happy).

No response. I wanted to have my request in writing and will print out the entire conversation.

I can definitely see these parent trying to pull a fast one and then reporting for goodness knows what- they come across as very passive aggressive, with the de-friending, not paying, and then telling me that he still is not having normal stools.

How do I protect myself in the event that they try to file a false claim? I have nothing to hide and I follow licensing guidelines even though I am not licensed, and I am a very loving, good provider.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2012, 08:41 AM
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as for the "coffee grounds" thing, any chance he was playing in a sandbox and ate sand? A few of mine have done that on occasion, and that is exactly how I would describe their bm's
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:52 AM
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as for the "coffee grounds" thing, any chance he was playing in a sandbox and ate sand? A few of mine have done that on occasion, and that is exactly how I would describe their bm's
I have not seen it personally- this is what the mother said to me today at drop off, "He still is not having normal BM's, (then something about a coffee ground consistency), and we are not giving him milk, bananas, or peaches."

I am concerned about what unregistered posted about it possibly being old blood! The child has not had a BM here today yet.

The dad just text me back and said he will make the payment today as usual.

I'm sick of these games and so ready to be done. hank goodness I will have a vacation right afterwards- I need a long break from all of this! I just hope and pray no one in my family gets sick!
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:54 AM
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I do not have a form that they sign that lists reasons. I wish I did. Another thing I will be incorporating into my PHB, thanks to this family. I just text them and said that his payment did not come through as usual, and would they like to try again or bring cash/check at pick up? I then gave them a brief update on their child (said he has not had any BM's yet and is currently happy).

No response. I wanted to have my request in writing and will print out the entire conversation.

I can definitely see these parent trying to pull a fast one and then reporting for goodness knows what- they come across as very passive aggressive, with the de-friending, not paying, and then telling me that he still is not having normal stools.

How do I protect myself in the event that they try to file a false claim? I have nothing to hide and I follow licensing guidelines even though I am not licensed, and I am a very loving, good provider.
Call your licensor now and give them a heads up on this family and the fact that they may file a claim shortly as you are trying to end things amicably but they are getting very passive aggressive.

do you not have something in your contract that says "no pay, no stay". Otherwise they may end up getting a few day out of you and then leaving with no two weeks pay.
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:03 AM
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Call your licensor now and give them a heads up on this family and the fact that they may file a claim shortly as you are trying to end things amicably but they are getting very passive aggressive.

do you not have something in your contract that says "no pay, no stay". Otherwise they may end up getting a few day out of you and then leaving with no two weeks pay.
I am legally unlicensed so unfortunately I do not have a licensor to call. DCD finally responded and said he would pay- so now I am just waiting for the child's first BM of the day and hoping it is not diaharrea or anything serious.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:09 AM
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How do I protect myself in the event that they try to file a false claim? I have nothing to hide and I follow licensing guidelines even though I am not licensed, and I am a very loving, good provider.
You need to make sure you have everything documented. I would also print up a quick form stating that services were terminated on *** date for "whatever" reason you used, not a good fit, not able to provide the care child needs....etc. Have the parents sign and date it and I think the simple fact that they are still bringing the child during the last two weeks says that they are NOT concerned about any safety issues or other "reportable" things....kwim?

I would also make sure you charge them the late fee for late payment and have them sign/date the receipt as final payment.

The more documentation you have the better protected you are.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:10 AM
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If you are used to receiving payment on Mon. am, and it is not there. I would be worried. If payment not made tonight, no pay , no stay for the rest of the week!!
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:15 AM
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You need to make sure you have everything documented. I would also print up a quick form stating that services were terminated on *** date for "whatever" reason you used, not a good fit, not able to provide the care child needs....etc. Have the parents sign and date it and I think the simple fact that they are still bringing the child during the last two weeks says that they are NOT concerned about any safety issues or other "reportable" things....kwim?

I would also make sure you charge them the late fee for late payment and have them sign/date the receipt as final payment.

The more documentation you have the better protected you are.
Excellent point! They are aware of the 2 week notice and are still bringing him so you are right, obviously they know his care is not compromised!

I will definitely have them sign a copy of the letter I gave them as well!

Thanks for the great advice!
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:48 AM
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I know its not your business, but why would they not give him bananas? THat is one of the foods you are SUPPOSED to give kids when they have diarrhea!

I can see staying away from milk, but not bananas.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:52 AM
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And they didn't pay! Call that parent NOW and send the child home. For good.
Ditto! Wow. Unreal.
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:05 AM
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I feel your being passive aggressive. You have every excuse going to keep this sick non paying child.

For the record, I often find myself put in a passive aggressive situation- often the nature of the game. I am getting better with backbone and this forum.

At pick up- tell the father, payment is late, and you brought your child sick today yet again. I needed a doctor's note and as of this minute my services to you are terminated. You have until ___________ to pay me for the two weeks notice. Say this after he pays you. Do not let there be any opening for further discussion. Just nod your head and repeat if you have to but enough is enough here.

I know your trying to come from a place of kindness and have been but enough is enough- move on. The child needs to see a Dr. and you need to be paid for your services and respected. I would have thought they would have been done after you gave them the two week notice. People have a nerve-

Best-
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:10 AM
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I know its not your business, but why would they not give him bananas? THat is one of the foods you are SUPPOSED to give kids when they have diarrhea!

I can see staying away from milk, but not bananas.
I know! My ped recommends the BRAT diet (Bananas, Rice, Applesauce, and Toast) anytime there is any sort or stomach issue.

They *think* bananas are causing the diaharrea. Last week it was yogurt that caused it, then teething, according to them. Like I said, they are not consulting a doctor to my knowledge, and they keep self-diagnosing some benign cause because they cannot accept that his immune system has been compromised by a bug.

On a side note: An update: DCD said he would send the payment today and still has not sent it. I think he is on a power trip and feels the need to exert control over the situation because he's upset I gave them notice. They better have it to me today or they are going to be met with their items at the door tomorrow morning and an immediate term notice for non-payment.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default UGH they are really annoying me now! VENT!

DCD just showed up in casual clothes at naptime to pick him up, without telling me he was coming early at all (they always let me know when they are coming). I'm sure he wanted to "spy" on me or something... So apparently now they don't trust me? Geeze wow, am I going to have to go through this for the next two weeks? If you don't trust me with your child then don't bring him back here! I would never mistreat an innocent child just because I decided to term- if they thought I was that kind of a person they would have never chosen my service in the first place. I am so irritated right now.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:10 PM
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DCD just showed up in casual clothes at naptime to pick him up, without telling me he was coming early at all (they always let me know when they are coming). I'm sure he wanted to "spy" on me or something... So apparently now they don't trust me? Geeze wow, am I going to have to go through this for the next two weeks? If you don't trust me with your child then don't bring him back here! I would never mistreat an innocent child just because I decided to term- if they thought I was that kind of a person they would have never chosen my service in the first place. I am so irritated right now.
Here's my question ... DID HE PAY?
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:15 PM
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Yeah, did he pay you!? And I bet since he picked up early you weren't given the chance to give them an immediate term letter.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:16 PM
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You need to invoice them through e-mail and call and leave a message saying that their invoice was sent to them.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:35 PM
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Yes, he did finally send the payment to my account. So I guess that means dcb will be here tomorrow, and dcp's will randomly come whenever tomorrow.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:08 PM
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Do you have anything in your contract about not picking up or dropping off during nap time? If you do, when he comes in the morning, meet him at the door with his things and tell him that you will no longer take their child as he clearly has some illness that they have refused to address, he paid you late, even after you reminded dad about it AND he picked up during nap time, when it is clearly stated in your contract that you don't allow it.

If it isn't in your contract, then just go with the first two reasons. I'm sorry but you are being WAY too nice to them. Let them go now or the next two weeks will be h.e.l.l. on you.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:11 PM
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omg. they are going to be so annoying for the next few weeks or at least that is what I think. Trying to get the last "word". Expect more bad diapers and other passive aggressive actions like suddenly forgetting to send things the kid has always had before, showing up early or late. blech....I hate this. They think they are being all sneaky but its so obvious.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:23 PM
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Do you have anything in your contract about not picking up or dropping off during nap time? If you do, when he comes in the morning, meet him at the door with his things and tell him that you will no longer take their child as he clearly has some illness that they have refused to address, he paid you late, even after you reminded dad about it AND he picked up during nap time, when it is clearly stated in your contract that you don't allow it.

If it isn't in your contract, then just go with the first two reasons. I'm sorry but you are being WAY too nice to them. Let them go now or the next two weeks will be h.e.l.l. on you.
My phb says parents are welcome any time but please avoid coming during nap time. Stupid me sent him with his blankie and paci because the child was woken up while napping, and I bet they "forget" them tomorrow. They are just looking for something wrong and causing me undue stress for no reason. I have to be so careful and follow my contract, so especially since they paid me, even though it was late by a few hours, my contract doesn't even cover me enough to term them on the spot. And they are being so passive aggressive I have to be careful. This stinks!
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:42 PM
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Just let this be a lesson learned. My contract is everything i have learned and dealt with over the past 20 some odd years. Re -do your contract and have the families there now sign it and then present it to any new clients. You should protect yourself in the new contract. Cover pick up and drop off and anything else that pother providers have provided that may be of personal intrest to you.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:05 PM
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Yes, he did finally send the payment to my account. So I guess that means dcb will be here tomorrow, and dcp's will randomly come whenever tomorrow.
When I have termed or someone gives me notice, I will have them sign the document they gave me, if they notified me or I create one for them to sign, if I am terming them.

On it, I will write on the term form, that should they break any policies of the PHB during their term period, that they will be removed from care immediately. I will make a short list of things that will get them kicked out on the spot. Usually its things that they were doing wrong in the first place.
EX:

sending child ill to care
not paying on time
failure to call when child will be out

I can share with you what I give them.. I call it a withdraw form, not term letter.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:14 PM
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When I have termed or someone gives me notice, I will have them sign the document they gave me, if they notified me or I create one for them to sign, if I am terming them.

On it, I will write on the term form, that should they break any policies of the PHB during their term period, that they will be removed from care immediately. I will make a short list of things that will get them kicked out on the spot. Usually its things that they were doing wrong in the first place.
EX:

sending child ill to care
not paying on time
failure to call when child will be out

I can share with you what I give them.. I call it a withdraw form, not term letter.
Do you mind PM'ing it to me? I love the idea of the list of things that will get them kicked out on the spot. I wish I had that last week! This family is like having a crash course in business management. I thought I had myself pretty well covered until they exposed all of the weaknesses in my PHB and contract. I so so so need an immediate termination clause. Now I am going to pay for it for the next 2 weeks
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:23 PM
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Do you mind PM'ing it to me? I love the idea of the list of things that will get them kicked out on the spot. I wish I had that last week! This family is like having a crash course in business management. I thought I had myself pretty well covered until they exposed all of the weaknesses in my PHB and contract. I so so so need an immediate termination clause. Now I am going to pay for it for the next 2 weeks
ok I will send a sample to you so that you can see...
Hopefully I can find one of someone I termed, because I have not termed anyone in some time.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:23 PM
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I cant find one that I did not turn into a PDF I can email you if you are willing to give me your email address via PM.....
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Coffee grounds in vomit or a bowel movement is usually curtled old blood. I would not be humming and hawing over what to do here as baby needs to go to the dr ASAP. I'm so worried about the little guy and your liability if he were to become violently ill while in your care. You know he is sick. Call for pick up. At this point too I'd call CPS and report if you don't hear they have taken him to the Dr. He needs to be seen.

The nonpayment is just the icing on the cake for me. I dont envy this situation at all.
What the above poster said... Coffee grounds in vomit or BM is not something that should be ignored. It is most likely blood. That child needs to see the Dr. ASAP! Oh golly - what is wrong with those parents?
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