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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Normal Toddler Behavior?
adnilwis 12:13 PM 05-02-2016
I've been doing inhome daycare for almost two years now. I previously worked at a center with younger toddlers for ten years. I've watched the same two kids at my inhome since they were two months old. They are now 20 months. It's been a rough few months. The girl says maybe 12 words total, barely ever gives me eye contact, never initiates cuddling, lap sitting or playtime with me. Wont ask for more food unless i prompt her. She puts everything in her mouth. She recognizes all her colors and shapes but can't /won't say any of them. She will play with toys but majority of the day is spent wandering around and laying on the floor. The boy babbles nonstop all day and says about 45 uderstandable words for me. He will say sentences at home. He shows some autistic tendencies like spinning wheels on a car, spinning around in circles, wringing his hands, using one hand for tasks that should be done with two and has very minimal eye contact. He also won't initiate cuddling and rarely sits on my lap. Usually only to listen to a book. He also cries at everything. If someone lays on him, pokes him lightly, takes his toy, etc. He whines if I don't do something fast enough or give him more food because I gave someone else more. He will walk over to me crying but won't reach for me or say up or say owie etc. He also most days flat out refuses to participate in group time when he knows how to say colors and shapes. We sing pretty much the same songs everyday and he never participates and sings or does the motions. He also rarely plays with toys and mom said hes that way at home but that's normal to her .The girl will but also very minimal. The other kids including mine love to do group time. I don't know what else to do. I've tried group time using my tablet and it isn't any better. They are both very spacey and prefer playing alone but they also play with each other but not really any of the other chikdren. If I'm on the floor playing they are as far away from me as possible. He will imitate anything the older kids do but nothing I do or ask him to do. We try to do group activities and he chooses not to participate but whines when he sees others doing it like he wants to but cant. I need suggestions. I think part of the issue is they have been with me for too long but I also see it as partly not normal. I handed him a comb today and he had no idea what to do with it until he saw my daughter (who is the same age as him) put it in her hair then he did it but only for a second then it went in the mouth. Comments? Suggestions? I'm going crazy with all the crying and whining. He was the easiest baby ever too.
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Michael 05:52 PM 05-02-2016
Welcome to the forum. Here are more threads on Toddler Behavior: https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...ddler+behavior
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NeedaVaca 10:08 AM 05-03-2016
They are awfully young to be so worried IMO, not even 2 yet...I wouldn't expect them to do circle time or group activities at this age, some kids love it, some kids don't. Speech and autism are also not something to worry about at this age unless you were seeing serious signs of a problem. Why not just let them play? Let them play with what they choose, show them fun things or new ways of playing with things and let them explore I would make sure they are getting lots of outside time too! I definitely wouldn't keep pressuring them to do these activities, they could be feeling that from you and reacting to it.
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daycarediva 10:55 AM 05-03-2016
I believe the speech pathologist told me that 5 words by 2 is considered on target/not behind. 2's also parallel play, they do not truly play WITH other children yet.
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adnilwis 11:03 AM 05-03-2016
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
They are awfully young to be so worried IMO, not even 2 yet...I wouldn't expect them to do circle time or group activities at this age, some kids love it, some kids don't. Speech and autism are also not something to worry about at this age unless you were seeing serious signs of a problem. Why not just let them play? Let them play with what they choose, show them fun things or new ways of playing with things and let them explore I would make sure they are getting lots of outside time too! I definitely wouldn't keep pressuring them to do these activities, they could be feeling that from you and reacting to it.
They do the same thing outside, wander around and walk in circles. I have tried showing them fun things to do with toys and they don't even come over by me. Weve tries running games and the dcb wont participate. He will do it later on by himself. They want to do group time which is the problem. I tried having just the oldest two do it and these younger kids totally flipped out that they couldn't do it. I by no means pressure them at all to do it.
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adnilwis 11:06 AM 05-03-2016
The speech doesn't worry me. It's more the lack of affection and eye contact and lack of emotions, they've been in my care for 17 months and haven't really seemed to form a connection with me at all.
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adnilwis 01:59 PM 05-03-2016
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I believe the speech pathologist told me that 5 words by 2 is considered on target/not behind. 2's also parallel play, they do not truly play WITH other children yet.
At my daughters 18 month appointment the nurse asked me if she was saying 8-10 clear words. At 18 months this girl said maybe 3-5 words so she is making improvement.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:01 AM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
I believe the speech pathologist told me that 5 words by 2 is considered on target/not behind. 2's also parallel play, they do not truly play WITH other children yet.
Really?

The SLP I spoke with two weeks ago was saying, at least, 50 understandable words right around when they turn 2 and then 400 words prior to 2.5.

Also, that behavior does seem off to me. I'd keep a list going and continue monitoring, but come 2.25-2.5 I would be mentioning something.
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MunchkinWrangler 11:22 AM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
Really?

The SLP I spoke with two weeks ago was saying, at least, 50 understandable words right around when they turn 2 and then 400 words prior to 2.5.

Also, that behavior does seem off to me. I'd keep a list going and continue monitoring, but come 2.25-2.5 I would be mentioning something.
My son was like this and tested and isn't anywhere nea being the spectrum. My son at 2 had about 10 words. Just a few months ago his language exploded and he's making sentence of 4-5 words or more and showing interest in playing with other kids. There are early warning signs but I believe they're more severe. These kids at these ages sound normal to me.

OP , remember that some of the things they're doing are new to them. Spinning in circles or watching wheels turn, even whining is all a new experience to them.
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:59 AM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler:
My son was like this and tested and isn't anywhere nea being the spectrum. My son at 2 had about 10 words. Just a few months ago his language exploded and he's making sentence of 4-5 words or more and showing interest in playing with other kids. There are early warning signs but I believe they're more severe. These kids at these ages sound normal to me.

OP , remember that some of the things they're doing are new to them. Spinning in circles or watching wheels turn, even whining is all a new experience to them.
The lack of expressive language wouldn't make me think "spectrum."
The lack of playing and wandering around laying down all over the place, minimal eye contact, etc. is interesting...
I'm wondering if they have a lot of screen time at home.

I was told by someone who is well researched in primitive infant reflexes that twins are notorious for being unintegrated in certain areas. So, that could very well be what is going on here. I would google "primitive infant reflexes" and see what you can find. Brain Balance Center is a common one, that is really expensive, but there are other places that are well researched and know more about things of this nature.
http://www.brainbalancecenters.com/w...veReflexes.png
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Controlled Chaos 12:08 PM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
The lack of expressive language wouldn't make me think "spectrum."
The lack of playing and wandering around laying down all over the place, minimal eye contact, etc. is interesting...
I'm wondering if they have a lot of screen time at home.

I was told by someone who is well researched in primitive infant reflexes that twins are notorious for being unintegrated in certain areas. So, that could very well be what is going on here. I would google "primitive infant reflexes" and see what you can find. Brain Balance Center is a common one, that is really expensive, but there are other places that are well researched and know more about things of this nature.
http://www.brainbalancecenters.com/w...veReflexes.png
I had a child who was a "lazy" player here. She had TV 24/7 at home and tablet in the car. She wandered around for months here, overwhelmed by regular stimuli. After months she started playing a bit. There was nothing inherently "wrong" with her, but she appeared behind when it came to playing with toys and interacting with her world. Do you know what home life looks like?

I wouldn't be worried about the speech, but the lack of affection and eye contact is concerning. Are they siblings?
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adnilwis 12:35 PM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by Controlled Chaos:
I had a child who was a "lazy" player here. She had TV 24/7 at home and tablet in the car. She wandered around for months here, overwhelmed by regular stimuli. After months she started playing a bit. There was nothing inherently "wrong" with her, but she appeared behind when it came to playing with toys and interacting with her world. Do you know what home life looks like?

I wouldn't be worried about the speech, but the lack of affection and eye contact is concerning. Are they siblings?
They are not siblings and both only children. Whining is not new to him. He's done it since he turned a year. Used to be a lot more frequent than it is now but it's still often, like anytime I redirect him, anytime someone lightly bumps him or grabs his shirt etc. I don't believe he gets much if any screen time at home. He leaves my daycare around 5:30 and goes to bed at 7. Weekends they are busy running errands or at their cabin. Both their parents think they are shy and embarrassed in social settings but I know they aren't shy. He will talk to anyone in the grocery store mom said. Neither one cling to parents at drop off or run to them to get a hug at pickup. Maybe they are totally different at home. He doesn't whine AT ALL according to mom at home.
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adnilwis 12:38 PM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by MunchkinWrangler:
My son was like this and tested and isn't anywhere nea being the spectrum. My son at 2 had about 10 words. Just a few months ago his language exploded and he's making sentence of 4-5 words or more and showing interest in playing with other kids. There are early warning signs but I believe they're more severe. These kids at these ages sound normal to me.

OP , remember that some of the things they're doing are new to them. Spinning in circles or watching wheels turn, even whining is all a new experience to them.
Would it still be considered new if they've done it for at least three months? The girl doesn't spin wheels or in circles but doesn't really play. She mouths everything and always has.
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Ariana 06:00 PM 05-04-2016
The criteria in the USA is quite a bit different than here in Canada. By two, kids should have up to 100 words and be saying simple two word sentences. My own children were doing that by 2 years for sure.

I had a 2 year old who was on the spectrum. He did not get diagnosed however because his mother didn't believe him to be on the spectrum and he apparently only displayed these behaviors with me. He had excellent eye contact but was extremely lethargic for a toddler. Standing or lying in the same spot, only able to play with cars or wheeled objects and if those objects were not available he would wander and have "shut downs". He would repeat phrases and words over and over and bring objects to you and tell you what they were over and over, sometimes bringing the same object up to 20 times a day. No interest in other children except to play chase games. During chase games he was simply running in a circle, not engaged with others, never looking up to see where the other kids were etc. Just very "odd" behavior. The major red flag for him was repetition and routine. Those behaviors are very strong in kids on the spectrum.

My advice to you would be to document the odd behaviors you are seeing and then Google what you are seeing. Is it normal? Is it part of the spectrum? Can you find youtube videos depicting that behavior etc. I found out for example that the lethargy and sleeping for 5 hours in my home could be because 80% of ASD children have sleep issues.
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adnilwis 08:34 PM 05-04-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
The criteria in the USA is quite a bit different than here in Canada. By two, kids should have up to 100 words and be saying simple two word sentences. My own children were doing that by 2 years for sure.

I had a 2 year old who was on the spectrum. He did not get diagnosed however because his mother didn't believe him to be on the spectrum and he apparently only displayed these behaviors with me. He had excellent eye contact but was extremely lethargic for a toddler. Standing or lying in the same spot, only able to play with cars or wheeled objects and if those objects were not available he would wander and have "shut downs". He would repeat phrases and words over and over and bring objects to you and tell you what they were over and over, sometimes bringing the same object up to 20 times a day. No interest in other children except to play chase games. During chase games he was simply running in a circle, not engaged with others, never looking up to see where the other kids were etc. Just very "odd" behavior. The major red flag for him was repetition and routine. Those behaviors are very strong in kids on the spectrum.

My advice to you would be to document the odd behaviors you are seeing and then Google what you are seeing. Is it normal? Is it part of the spectrum? Can you find youtube videos depicting that behavior etc. I found out for example that the lethargy and sleeping for 5 hours in my home could be because 80% of ASD children have sleep issues.
Thanks for your input. He can say two word sentences (not a lot for me but he does at home according to mom). He does seem very lethargic but I know he sleeps well at home. Mom says he sleeps 11 to 12 hours straight through all night and he will nap for 2 if not 3 hours. The girl doesn't sleep well most days for me but not sure about at home. As far interaction with kids, they stare at the other kids and me all the time and sit by them and sometimes play with them. We do play chase games but the girl doesn't seem to notice the other kids. She just runs back and forth. The boy usually flat out refuses to do it but then whines when he isn't doing it when he chooses not to do it. He just would rather lay on the floor or stand by the wall than play with toys and he didn't know what to do with a comb when I gave him one the other day. Neither of them did. My daughter who is the same age knew exactly what to do with it. I have mentioned a few things to his mom and she just makes it seem he acts totally different at home (which maybe he does since it's just him and his parents). I have researched a lot of what I see them do and looked for youtube videos but I'll have to maybe try more specific searches. Thanks!
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Josiegirl 03:05 AM 05-05-2016
I didn't read everything but can you do an ages and stages assessment, for your own information then pass on what you learn from it, to the parents? Each child is so different sometimes it's difficult to see the variation as an upcoming problem or if they're just a little bit more of a late comer, KWIM?
There could be lots of other reasons for the affection issues even though they've been with you for awhile.
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adnilwis 04:07 AM 05-05-2016
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I didn't read everything but can you do an ages and stages assessment, for your own information then pass on what you learn from it, to the parents? Each child is so different sometimes it's difficult to see the variation as an upcoming problem or if they're just a little bit more of a late comer, KWIM?
There could be lots of other reasons for the affection issues even though they've been with you for awhile.
Yes I could try that. Also did an MCHAT for both too, and came back high risk for them. I'll see if I can find an ASQ online to print out for them.
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Ariana 06:44 AM 05-05-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
Yes I could try that. Also did an MCHAT for both too, and came back high risk for them. I'll see if I can find an ASQ online to print out for them.
I did an MCHAT for my DCK and got an 8 which is very high risk. The parents did it and got 2-3 so low risk. There was a huge discrepency between what the parents were seeing and what I was seeing.

For example this child hated swings. I would put him in a swing and he would freak out and look completely terrified. I had never seen a kid act like that. When I told the mom she looked at me like I had 10 heads but didn't day anything which lead me to believe she had never put him in a swing before but didn't want to say that. The child was exposed to very little at home and everything was done for him. When he started with me at 18 months he had never held a marker or a balloon before. He could barely drink out of a sippy cup and would over stuff his mouth all the time. The mom, who was very educated in early childhood education, thought this was completely normal

Is it possible they just aren't being stimulated at home? Eventhough my DCK slept 12 hours at night he would sleep here for up to 5 hours some days! Again, at home he rarely slept more than 2 hours. I just never knew what to believe to be honest. How could a child be soooo different with me??
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adnilwis 07:40 AM 05-05-2016
Originally Posted by Ariana:
I did an MCHAT for my DCK and got an 8 which is very high risk. The parents did it and got 2-3 so low risk. There was a huge discrepency between what the parents were seeing and what I was seeing.

For example this child hated swings. I would put him in a swing and he would freak out and look completely terrified. I had never seen a kid act like that. When I told the mom she looked at me like I had 10 heads but didn't day anything which lead me to believe she had never put him in a swing before but didn't want to say that. The child was exposed to very little at home and everything was done for him. When he started with me at 18 months he had never held a marker or a balloon before. He could barely drink out of a sippy cup and would over stuff his mouth all the time. The mom, who was very educated in early childhood education, thought this was completely normal

Is it possible they just aren't being stimulated at home? Eventhough my DCK slept 12 hours at night he would sleep here for up to 5 hours some days! Again, at home he rarely slept more than 2 hours. I just never knew what to believe to be honest. How could a child be soooo different with me??
It is very possible yes. The MCHAT I did was a 10 for each of them, but no clue if parents did it and know score. They most likely get a lot done for them at home being only children but since they have been with me since 3 months I've been with them a long time.
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Ariana 07:54 AM 05-05-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
It is very possible yes. The MCHAT I did was a 10 for each of them, but no clue if parents did it and know score. They most likely get a lot done for them at home being only children but since they have been with me since 3 months I've been with them a long time.
Well this might not be the case for you. In my case the child was only with me two days a week and spent the rest of the time with mom or dad. I am thinking something is going on here if you got a 10 on the MChat. I would bring it up with the parents and forward them a copy of the Mchat to complete and then highly recommend they see a pediatrician for further exploration. I ignored it with my DCK for about a year because I was so confused about why he was so different with me and why mom wasn't seeing anything.
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adnilwis 08:34 PM 05-05-2016
Originally Posted by adnilwis:
Yes I could try that. Also did an MCHAT for both too, and came back high risk for them. I'll see if I can find an ASQ online to print out for them.
I did an ASQ for those two and my daughter who is the same age. They were right at cutoff for almost all areas except a few. My daughter was just where she should be, but again, for mom and dad they could act different. The boy scored really low in problem solving and personal/social. The girl was low in communication and a few others. I don't have it to look at right now to know for sure.
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adnilwis 12:29 PM 07-13-2016
I'm the original poster and just to update. The DCBI wrote about is no longer in my care. He goes to a center and according to mom had no issues with the change and is doing well. He enjoys being with kids his own age.
The Dcg is still with me. She will be 2 on August 26. Her last day with me is September 2. They are moving her to a center so she'll be with all 2 year olds. She still doesn't play much. She only will if I or someone else gets out something. She has access to whatever she wants and would rather rock the rocking chair back and forth or run around in circles . Her playtime doesn't last long. She either puts the toy in her mouth or gets up and just watches everyone play, She doesn't attract my attention by taking my hand or coming up to me with a toy nor does she sit on my lap EVER. Rarely responds to her name (and when she does the eye contact is very short and minimal). I've noticed it with Dad when he picks up and drops off. He'll say her name at least 3 times before he leaves in the morning to get her to say bye and she won't look at him. At night he comes and picks her up and will talk to her and ask how her day was. She never looks at him. Mom has told me she gives eye contact at home.

But now that she's leaving I feel like I shouldn't bring up anything else to mom and dad. Any thoughts on the behavior or advice? She's been in my care since she was 6 weeks old.
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