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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>I Need Role Playing Ideas and Other Activities to Help a Frustrated Tantrumer
Pestle 09:43 AM 11-09-2016
My barely-3yo dcg had no manners when she first started--she would yell at me to do things and would burst into tears when something was out of reach. We role-played asking for objects and then getting them, and she learned the word "please" and was less likely to start with screaming as soon as she thought of something she wanted.

Six months later, she has suddenly gotten so much worse. She screams at me to get her things or do tasks she can do herself, like turning on lights or flushing the toilet. When I tell her, "Miss, I will help you do it yourself," she flops down on the floor and screams for anywhere from 20 minutes to 45 minutes.

When she wants something, she lunges for it and hits whoever is holding it, so I take it away from her. Then she pursues me to get it back, again screaming for a very long period of time. She'll kick and hit me and collapse on the floor screaming.

She's too tall to be held back by a baby gate or crib--she scales them. So 2-3 times daily we have to just do everything around her while she screams as loudly as she can.

I still have just three kids in the day care and no additional interviews to fill my last space. Since this girl's brother is another third of my business, I really can't term over this. And once I battened down and worked to help the younger brother through his own aggressive behaviors it did wonders and I now enjoy having him here. So I know it can be done and really want to build the skills to help this girl overcome her frustration.
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Pestle 09:59 AM 11-09-2016
Oh, and at the same time she's reversed her nascent potty training and is wetting herself several times a day. She refuses to go the bathroom or be led there but also refuses to wear diapers. Right now she's half-naked in the bathrrom refusing to put on a naptime pull-up and claiming that her soaking pants are dry. She also has started hiking her pants down to expose her bottom during the course of the day.
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Ariana 11:46 AM 11-09-2016
Why does a 3 yr old have so many choices? She is choosing not to wear a diaper or pullup? This just doesn't happen in my home.

What kind of consequences are you offering for this behavior? Role modeling does not work with some kids, especially kids who WANT to be defiant. Make her defiance work against her by having clear, strict, natural consequences.
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Pestle 12:19 PM 11-09-2016
Ariana, can you please help me out by giving me an example of the consequences you enforce? Right now I just end whatever activity she wanted to do and don't offer it again that day.

I give her two choices: Put on your undies or stay in the bathroom. During naptime, it's: Put on your pull-up or stay in the bathroom.
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laundrymom 12:46 PM 11-09-2016
I would put them on her and if she refused I would require pickup. There is no "stay in another room" here.
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daycare 12:48 PM 11-09-2016
I do agree maybe too many choices.

If a child was refusing to do it on their own, I would say either you put your panties on or I will put them on, either way it's getting done.

I had this child several months back and I allowed them to melt down and cry for no longer than 30 min, after that, I had to call for pick up. It is not fair to anyone to have to hear that all day for that long. Nothing with my child worked.

lucky for me the kid aged out. I have gotten many text from this DCP asking me to help them becuase the child is still doing it in kinder. All I could say was please talk to your child's teacher.
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Hunni Bee 01:59 PM 11-09-2016
My daughter is like this. She's just starting to get over it. Part of it was a speech delay, and part of it was just her being a jerk. No manners, screaming for everything, refusing everything.

Her only choices are "do as asked" or "Mommy does it for you and then you get to sit". She gets nothing for screaming, not even the bathroom.

I hesitated taking such a hard line with her but she's extremely intelligent and she gets it, as I'm sure your dcg does.
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Pestle 02:12 PM 11-09-2016
Hunni Bee, how do you get her to sit?

This child is very articulate and is polite about 30% of the time; rude another 40% of the time but corrects herself when I remind her; and flips out the other 30% of the time. She responded well to immediate intervention followed by discussion/role-playing when she was 2 1/2.

What kicked this off was a week home sick with the parents. The mother does what the child tells her to do.
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Blackcat31 02:16 PM 11-09-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
Ariana, can you please help me out by giving me an example of the consequences you enforce? Right now I just end whatever activity she wanted to do and don't offer it again that day.

I give her two choices: Put on your undies or stay in the bathroom. During naptime, it's: Put on your pull-up or stay in the bathroom.
I'm curious as to what the parent's do for discipline and guidance?

How DO they manage her when she hits and kicks them or scales barriers and gates?

I think the behavior you described is extremely inappropriate (for a 3+ yr old child) and very much in line with how a toddler behaves when they are lacking the verbal and cognitive skills required to empathize, have patience and communicate effectively.

I would have a really hard time looking beyond the physical assault towards an adult.

If I were in your shoes, this child would be brought back to square one and taught her place or at the very least taught how to effectively and appropriately communicate her needs and wants and I'd start with the parent(s).
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Pestle 02:37 PM 11-09-2016
Blackcat, I'm under the impression that parent 1 spanks and yells and parent 2 caves immediately. I get what you're saying. I found a useful book on biting and put together a plan that I sent home with the parents when the younger one was the bigger force of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth around here. However, I am not sure where to look for professional guidance about these particular behaviors so I can put together an effective plan to share with the parents.

You're right; I need to begin by sitting them down and saying, "You've told me that she does this at home and you're not sure how to tackle it. When she does, how do you respond? If she asks politely for something, do you respond immediately so she knows she's being heard? If she wants something and starts hitting or screaming, does she ever get it? Now that we've stopped her brother from taking food off of her plate here, she's started taking his food. Is she ever allowed to graze off of your plates at home?" etc.
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Blackcat31 03:06 PM 11-09-2016
Originally Posted by Pestle:
Blackcat, I'm under the impression that parent 1 spanks and yells and parent 2 caves immediately. I get what you're saying. I found a useful book on biting and put together a plan that I sent home with the parents when the younger one was the bigger force of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth around here. However, I am not sure where to look for professional guidance about these particular behaviors so I can put together an effective plan to share with the parents.

You're right; I need to begin by sitting them down and saying, "You've told me that she does this at home and you're not sure how to tackle it. When she does, how do you respond? If she asks politely for something, do you respond immediately so she knows she's being heard? If she wants something and starts hitting or screaming, does she ever get it? Now that we've stopped her brother from taking food off of her plate here, she's started taking his food. Is she ever allowed to graze off of your plates at home?" etc.
The key to solving any unwanted behavior, in my opinion is finding out the root of it.

If she rules the roost at home, she is only asking for/taking things (and expecting compliance from those she just snatched something from) because that is the system of cause and effect she has been taught.

If she is spanked by the other parent as the sole consequence for unwanted behaviors but not provided with any other follow up (better choice options, different approach, an explanation of why the unwanted behavior is bad etc... ) then spanking alone is nothing more than hitting. Plain and simple.

One of my parents also spanked (and while I am not condoning nor denying that spanking is or isn't a good method) I DO know that my parent that did spank did so with a discussion about what I did wrong, what I can do to change it (avoid another spanking) and why it is wrong.

Honestly, I'd give this issue back to the parent. You will guide and discipline this child for only a short time whereas the parent is going to have to figure out how to parent this child for the rest of their lives...

I would list the behaviors you will absolutely not tolerate. Then write up a plan of action.
If she has one or more of the behaviors you listed...call for pick up. I know that isn't always a popular reaction or plan but I feel it gives the problem back to the parent.

I will happily and enthusiastically support a parent in curbing unwanted behaviors but the parents have to be the ones to identify and address the issue at home on their time first and foremost or anything I do during the day is just a Band-aid or short term solution to a long term problem.

My goal is for kids to thrive in care not just survive.
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debbiedoeszip 06:33 PM 11-09-2016
I don't have a dc child who does all of those things but all of them occur among my group.

I ignore requests/demands for things they can do for themselves. Completely. As if I never saw or heard the request/demand.

I work to calm a tantruming child without giving them the item (or whatever) they wanted. Basically: shhh, it's ok, calm down, over and over...then just carry on when it's over.

I would put the pull-up on her and not wait for her to do it. There would be no choice. Alternatively, I have a dcg who sometimes refuses to put her shoes/boots on when it's time to go outside. I just grab her with one arm, and the boots in the other, and we go outside. Once outside, in the cold/wet, she so far has quickly decided that footwear is a good idea LOL.

Grabbing. I would take the item away from her and coach her on how to take it nicely. She only gets to keep it when she takes it nicely, even if she needs to "practice" 20 (50?) times for each item.

I'd be keeping her by my side so that you can catch her quickly if she's doing something unkind or socially unacceptable right away and catch her doing something right (and give her positive feedback).

And I'd be working with her on language and communication skills.
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Ariana 06:40 PM 11-09-2016
I agree with everything everyone is saying so far.

For me at this point the child needs two choices: You do it OR Ariana does it. What is your choice? I give her the direction twice and if she is not responding I do it. Calmly, collectively, with zero anger or frustration.

Giving names to feelings and modeling appropriate behaviors. Asking her to sit out and then talking to her about why she sat out. I am not a big supporter of time outs but in this case it might be good.

Children who have one parent that spanks (especially if it is out of anger) and one who is permissive are screaming out for discipline. They are very confused kids. It is hugely important that you remian calm always with this child. Very firm but calm and assertive.
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Pestle 07:27 AM 11-10-2016
Thanks so much, everyone! I know I can power through this and will come out the other end with better skills to tackle the next challenging situation.
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Ariana 06:51 PM 11-10-2016
Sometimes it helps to just write out a plan, either on paper or in your head. What are her usual behavior issues and your response to them. What is the ABC....so Antecedent (what lead up to the behavior) the Behavior itself (What is she doing) and then the Consequence (a chosen method for dealing with the behavior)

This way you can look at stopping a behavior before it escalates by identifying the antecedent and also see which consequences work best.

Hang in there
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