Daycare.com Forum

Go Back   Daycare.com Forum > Main Category > Daycare Center and Family Home Forum

Daycare Center and Family Home Forum Daycare Center and Family Home owners, Directors, Operators and Assistants should post and ask questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-19-2016, 07:40 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default The "Preschool" War

So I have been working pretty hard the last few weeks getting lesson plans and themes ready for summer, and extended that to preschool for the year. I feel pretty good about what I have gotten together. I believe in letting children learn first from play and as an adult, paying attention and talking to them about what they are doing and what they can learn at the PreK age. I do 30-40 minutes a day of "preschool". This spring I have had one PreK kiddo who loves "school" time so there have been days we have done a little more, but not a horrible amount I am also teaching this child to play, rather than sit on the floor and look at a toy. (I have pressed for an assessment but can't make them do it). So, I do believe in teaching, but not in the way parents think it needs to happen.

But it made me wonder, with the push for "preschool" how do we convince parents that much of what they think the kiddos need is not age appropriate? This is after talking to the mother of a newly 4 YO girl the other day who was beside herself because she couldn't get her child to do worksheets. It also reminded me of a 3YO I had part of the winter who was in our schools half day pre K. This child came home with "homework" daily. Always worksheets, or art that was beyond her. Around Christmas, she came home with a blank paper plate. She was to cut and glue it in a way it became an angel. There were instructions with pictures. The teachers sent that one home to be redone because the one in class didn't work well. I wonder why? They really expect a child who is 3 to cut a paper plate and turn it into an angel with no adult intervention?

So my question is with all the push for Pre K, how do we as providers get parents to understand (and believe) that things like pushing worksheets, and art a child can't possibly do is causing more harm than good? I want to use this information to draw parents to my program, in which we do what I believe is age appropriate Pre K. But I am not sure how to do it!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:13 AM
Baby Beluga's Avatar
Baby Beluga Baby Beluga is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 3,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
So I have been working pretty hard the last few weeks getting lesson plans and themes ready for summer, and extended that to preschool for the year. I feel pretty good about what I have gotten together. I believe in letting children learn first from play and as an adult, paying attention and talking to them about what they are doing and what they can learn at the PreK age. I do 30-40 minutes a day of "preschool". This spring I have had one PreK kiddo who loves "school" time so there have been days we have done a little more, but not a horrible amount I am also teaching this child to play, rather than sit on the floor and look at a toy. (I have pressed for an assessment but can't make them do it). So, I do believe in teaching, but not in the way parents think it needs to happen.

But it made me wonder, with the push for "preschool" how do we convince parents that much of what they think the kiddos need is not age appropriate? This is after talking to the mother of a newly 4 YO girl the other day who was beside herself because she couldn't get her child to do worksheets. It also reminded me of a 3YO I had part of the winter who was in our schools half day pre K. This child came home with "homework" daily. Always worksheets, or art that was beyond her. Around Christmas, she came home with a blank paper plate. She was to cut and glue it in a way it became an angel. There were instructions with pictures. The teachers sent that one home to be redone because the one in class didn't work well. I wonder why? They really expect a child who is 3 to cut a paper plate and turn it into an angel with no adult intervention?

So my question is with all the push for Pre K, how do we as providers get parents to understand (and believe) that things like pushing worksheets, and art a child can't possibly do is causing more harm than good? I want to use this information to draw parents to my program, in which we do what I believe is age appropriate Pre K. But I am not sure how to do it!
Unfortunately it is an uphill battle. I think parents think school = sitting and worksheets. Usually that does not work for many kids. One thing that helps me is to explain to parents that many little ones are kinesthetic learners, they need to use their bodies to learn. I explain to parents that I we don't worksheets. Instead we...

Use our fingers to write letters and numbers in cornmeal or mold them with playdough.

We form letters/numbers with our bodies.

I tape our monthly learning goals onto the floor (2 numbers, 2 letters, 1 shape, 1 color, etc) and we play freeze dance. When the music stops you find a learning goal to stand on and you tell me what it is. Rinse and repeat.

Our learning goals always find their way into our sensory bins. This week we are focusing on space. So I have glow in the dark planets, pom poms in the color we are learning about this month, the shape we are learning about this month, foam letters that spell "space" and the numbers we are learning about this month in a bin full of water beads.

When I explain it this way to potential clients, it seems to help a little more.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:13 AM
Miss A's Avatar
Miss A Miss A is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,006
Default

Check out your local CCR&R website for articles on the importance of play. My local CCR&R website is full of resources, and I have a wonderful CCR&R consultant who makes herself available to be to brainstorm ways to best express the benefits of my program.

Also, the NAEYC website has a great section on play, www.naeyc.org/play

Also, do some research on Piaget. I find that my views on childcare sync up most with his theories, and I always find it refreshing to see my ideals backed up by someone who really understand the mind of a child.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:14 AM
Snowmom's Avatar
Snowmom Snowmom is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
So I have been working pretty hard the last few weeks getting lesson plans and themes ready for summer, and extended that to preschool for the year. I feel pretty good about what I have gotten together. I believe in letting children learn first from play and as an adult, paying attention and talking to them about what they are doing and what they can learn at the PreK age. I do 30-40 minutes a day of "preschool". This spring I have had one PreK kiddo who loves "school" time so there have been days we have done a little more, but not a horrible amount I am also teaching this child to play, rather than sit on the floor and look at a toy. (I have pressed for an assessment but can't make them do it). So, I do believe in teaching, but not in the way parents think it needs to happen.

But it made me wonder, with the push for "preschool" how do we convince parents that much of what they think the kiddos need is not age appropriate? This is after talking to the mother of a newly 4 YO girl the other day who was beside herself because she couldn't get her child to do worksheets. It also reminded me of a 3YO I had part of the winter who was in our schools half day pre K. This child came home with "homework" daily. Always worksheets, or art that was beyond her. Around Christmas, she came home with a blank paper plate. She was to cut and glue it in a way it became an angel. There were instructions with pictures. The teachers sent that one home to be redone because the one in class didn't work well. I wonder why? They really expect a child who is 3 to cut a paper plate and turn it into an angel with no adult intervention?

So my question is with all the push for Pre K, how do we as providers get parents to understand (and believe) that things like pushing worksheets, and art a child can't possibly do is causing more harm than good? I want to use this information to draw parents to my program, in which we do what I believe is age appropriate Pre K. But I am not sure how to do it!
In my best minion voice to the bolded.... whaaaaat?

I get sending things home for FUN, but seriously, wth.

I offer a "preschool" program and we do everything together as a group, so even my 2 year olds get in on the fun.
With that said however, I tell the parents that the kids won't always be taking physical projects home from our days because much of what we learn is through play. I will give them examples when we talk and I frequently take pictures and videos and post them on my password protected website for them (and point out why that activity was a "learning" one).

You could always send home "learn through play" articles, IF you have parents who are actually interested in reading them.
You could do a quick snip-it with your daily communication with them (think like communication board/bulletin board).
You could text links to articles or webpages.

You'll get some parents who will pick up on it. But until the consensus changes as a whole, it's going to be hard. Even licensing (here) is pushing for more and more school. They even just changed our elementary school hours for next year to be increased by 1/2 hour. Which I personally think is harsh for a kindergartner.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:26 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post

So my question is with all the push for Pre K, how do we as providers get parents to understand (and believe) that things like pushing worksheets, and art a child can't possibly do is causing more harm than good?
When you figure out that answer you'll have to share it.

Even the government doesn't think "PLAY" is appropriate.

That has been a question asked over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..... you get the point........ and I've never seen anyone have an answer.

At least not one that is accepted, believed or supported by the masses.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:42 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
In my best minion voice to the bolded.... whaaaaat?

I get sending things home for FUN, but seriously, wth.
They sent home homework every day, but that one took the cake. How in the heck is a 3 year old supposed to look at a picture and turn a paper plate into it? And because the teachers couldn't get the kids to make it work at school they sent it home! They also got "bribed" to do their homework with little prizes and candy. I just think homework for a 3 year old is nuts though no matter what it is.

Quote:
At least not one that is accepted, believed or supported by the masses.
My first thought to this is I don't care about the masses, just my potential clients, however they are probably following the masses.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:43 AM
mommyneedsadayoff's Avatar
mommyneedsadayoff mommyneedsadayoff is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,702
Default

Maybe it's the circle I'm in, but I have seen a rising trend in the primal/paleo parenting movement. Healthy, natural foods, lots of play and movement, a connection to their environment, ect. I think there will always be that segment of the population who force the academic stuff, but I'm not sure their minds could be changed anyway. Our preschools around here are a few hours 2/3 days a week, so they are more about fun and being creative. They paint, play music, do all sorts of crafts and manipulative play with play dough, clay, ect. They are having a picnic in the park today to celebrate the last day

Now, kindergarten is another story. My son comes home with a worksheet every day and about 10 others he did during the day. I don't remember doing so many worksheets when I was young, but back then kindergarten was more like our preschool and we only went half a day. My mom did preschool stuff at her daycare, but preschool was much less of the "neccessity" parents feel it is today.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:59 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff View Post
Maybe it's the circle I'm in, but I have seen a rising trend in the primal/paleo parenting movement. Healthy, natural foods, lots of play and movement, a connection to their environment, ect. I think there will always be that segment of the population who force the academic stuff, but I'm not sure their minds could be changed anyway. Our preschools around here are a few hours 2/3 days a week, so they are more about fun and being creative. They paint, play music, do all sorts of crafts and manipulative play with play dough, clay, ect. They are having a picnic in the park today to celebrate the last day

Now, kindergarten is another story. My son comes home with a worksheet every day and about 10 others he did during the day. I don't remember doing so many worksheets when I was young, but back then kindergarten was more like our preschool and we only went half a day. My mom did preschool stuff at her daycare, but preschool was much less of the "neccessity" parents feel it is today.
I wish there were people in my area more like that. I am not totally "anti" preschool. I think kids need to be ready to learn when they start school, so some basic skills like colors, a little counting, maybe some letter recognition and such is a good thing. But now they want them to start kindy knowing stuff I don't remember learning in Kindy it seems. I call what I teach "light" preschool lol.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-19-2016, 09:22 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have found that having written curriculum (almost exclusively play-based - one in a great while there is a "craft" rather than open-ended art, or a printed sheet of pics to match up) has helped my families stop worrying about preschool.

I also post notes or email info about how pre-literacy learning works, the values of block play, etc. - but only every other month or so, or they get stuffed in the bottom of a backpack.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-19-2016, 10:18 AM
MrsSteinel'sHouse's Avatar
MrsSteinel'sHouse MrsSteinel'sHouse is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
When you figure out that answer you'll have to share it.

Even the government doesn't think "PLAY" is appropriate.

That has been a question asked over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over..... you get the point........ and I've never seen anyone have an answer.

At least not one that is accepted, believed or supported by the masses.
exactly! I had parents that were totally happy with my care and what their dd was learning until their dd was turning 4 then within the month they had "found a spot" at a preschool even though she wouldn't be going to kindergarten for another year and a half! Whosh... she was gone in February. They were worried she wouldn't be "ready" for kindergarten! Even though she already knew most of her letters etc all through play. <sigh>
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-19-2016, 10:32 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse View Post
exactly! I had parents that were totally happy with my care and what their dd was learning until their dd was turning 4 then within the month they had "found a spot" at a preschool even though she wouldn't be going to kindergarten for another year and a half! Whosh... she was gone in February. They were worried she wouldn't be "ready" for kindergarten! Even though she already knew most of her letters etc all through play. <sigh>
I do feel some parents 'get it' with the 'play thing'.....but all they hear from society is academics locally, state-wide and nationally.....it is confusing....it is almost like peer pressure for parents..... It is not an easy fix and it may even be unfixable (if that's a word) It is not just about preschool, it is about FREE pre-k. No one can compete with FREE!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-19-2016, 10:40 AM
Josiegirl's Avatar
Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Right here
Posts: 9,057
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
I do feel some parents 'get it' with the 'play thing'.....but all they hear from society is academics locally, state-wide and nationally.....it is confusing....it is almost like peer pressure for parents..... It is not an easy fix and it may even be unfixable (if that's a word) It is not just about preschool, it is about FREE pre-k. No one can compete with FREE!
Exactly!! That word free means a lot to most parents! Especially because by that time they might have a younger one joining the family, as is the case of a few of my dcfs.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-19-2016, 10:52 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ok, from a parents' perspective, kindergartens are freaking us out. My daughter starts this fall and I just went to her orientation. They gave us a list of things she needs to know and gave us a break down of what her day will look like. No kidding- it's 3 hours of "literacy" and 2 hours of math. Then they break into specials- whether it be science, gym, computer, etc. They are expected to sit at a desk all day and we were told to look around and take note that there are no toys. We were also told that they begin getting kids used to having their work graded, and will attached rubrics to their worksheets. I'm terrified for my child and cried the entire way home. (I'm in Philadelphia, horrible schools overall, but lucky to be in one of the best elementary schools)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:10 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Ok, from a parents' perspective, kindergartens are freaking us out. My daughter starts this fall and I just went to her orientation. They gave us a list of things she needs to know and gave us a break down of what her day will look like. No kidding- it's 3 hours of "literacy" and 2 hours of math. Then they break into specials- whether it be science, gym, computer, etc. They are expected to sit at a desk all day and we were told to look around and take note that there are no toys. We were also told that they begin getting kids used to having their work graded, and will attached rubrics to their worksheets. I'm terrified for my child and cried the entire way home. (I'm in Philadelphia, horrible schools overall, but lucky to be in one of the best elementary schools)
Kindy teachers tell me that if I can teach a child to follow directions, respect others, responsibility, etc. which can be taught through play, then the teachers can teach the child. BUT if a child comes in that has NOT learned those social-emotional life skills, then the teaching can be difficult. ABC's/123's are important and my daycare kids learn those here, but they learn it all through play. If the nation takes away our ability to teach social emotional skill we will have a bunch of electronic no-emotion robotic kids running around. That is scary!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:14 AM
EntropyControlSpecialist's Avatar
EntropyControlSpecialist EntropyControlSpecialist is offline
Embracing the chaos.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: A toasty environment!
Posts: 7,430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
I wish there were people in my area more like that. I am not totally "anti" preschool. I think kids need to be ready to learn when they start school, so some basic skills like colors, a little counting, maybe some letter recognition and such is a good thing. But now they want them to start kindy knowing stuff I don't remember learning in Kindy it seems. I call what I teach "light" preschool lol.
I run a preschool program out of my home and I don't do worksheets.
We do hands on activities to create letters and numbers, much like another poster mentioned. I have out trays that show what we do on the table during interviews and mention how developmentally inappropriate worksheets are, how I never noticed any long term learning occurring when I did utilize them, and how research has shown time and time again that they are simply not an effective teaching method and are, in reality, the lazy way out. Parents faces are usually shocked and as they see me show them how my kids learn here they seem to have a lightbulb moment. Perhaps if you could actually show them then your potential clients would get it better.

I also keep them informed about our state's pre-k standards (20 letter names and sounds, for example) so they can monitor if their child is doing what the STATE wants them to do.
All I expect to see is progress over the course of the year. If there's no progress then I discuss it with the parent and it's usually because they are simply watching TV/playing video games at home and not actually engaging in the world or books. That "illness" clears up quickly and they start making actual progress (how fast or how slow is dependent on the child, of course) when they curb the amount they use screens.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:17 AM
MrsSteinel'sHouse's Avatar
MrsSteinel'sHouse MrsSteinel'sHouse is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Ok, from a parents' perspective, kindergartens are freaking us out. My daughter starts this fall and I just went to her orientation. They gave us a list of things she needs to know and gave us a break down of what her day will look like. No kidding- it's 3 hours of "literacy" and 2 hours of math. Then they break into specials- whether it be science, gym, computer, etc. They are expected to sit at a desk all day and we were told to look around and take note that there are no toys. We were also told that they begin getting kids used to having their work graded, and will attached rubrics to their worksheets. I'm terrified for my child and cried the entire way home. (I'm in Philadelphia, horrible schools overall, but lucky to be in one of the best elementary schools)
This is why I recommend to all my parents that they wait until 6 for kindergarten! And that they let their precious kids play while they can because they won't be able to once they go to school!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:19 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
I run a preschool program out of my home and I don't do worksheets.
We do hands on activities to create letters and numbers, much like another poster mentioned. I have out trays that show what we do on the table during interviews and mention how developmentally inappropriate worksheets are, how I never noticed any long term learning occurring when I did utilize them, and how research has shown time and time again that they are simply not an effective teaching method and are, in reality, the lazy way out. Parents faces are usually shocked and as they see me show them how my kids learn here they seem to have a lightbulb moment. Perhaps if you could actually show them then your potential clients would get it better.

I also keep them informed about our state's pre-k standards (20 letter names and sounds, for example) so they can monitor if their child is doing what the STATE wants them to do.
All I expect to see is progress over the course of the year. If there's no progress then I discuss it with the parent and it's usually because they are simply watching TV/playing video games at home and not actually engaging in the world or books. That "illness" clears up quickly and they start making actual progress (how fast or how slow is dependent on the child, of course) when they curb the amount they use screens.
I have the kindy list along with that silly test they give to each child during the staggered enrollment the first two weeks of school. I tell parents not to stress too much because if they miss the "heel" or the "thigh" on the body they draw they will be discounted but ????? It is crazy...they have 20 kids there a day and they tell them "when you finish this test you can go outside with the other kids".....do you think those kids really give it their all.... If the child knows every letter but one and the teacher ask about the letter the child doesn't know first, the child doesn't get any credit for the letters because they are not allowed to move on. Like I said, I warn parents about this and I get many text with a thanks after this very test! Even the teachers think it is crazy but leave it up to our state to be the crazy ASSESSMENT minded persons who like this CRAZY STUFF!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:19 AM
MrsSteinel'sHouse's Avatar
MrsSteinel'sHouse MrsSteinel'sHouse is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
Kindy teachers tell me that if I can teach a child to follow directions, respect others, responsibility, etc. which can be taught through play, then the teachers can teach the child. BUT if a child comes in that has NOT learned those social-emotional life skills, then the teaching can be difficult. ABC's/123's are important and my daycare kids learn those here, but they learn it all through play. If the nation takes away our ability to teach social emotional skill we will have a bunch of electronic no-emotion robotic kids running around. That is scary!
Exactly! My kids do fine going to school because they are ready to learn, not I have forced them to retain things so they can go to school...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:47 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse View Post
This is why I recommend to all my parents that they wait until 6 for kindergarten! And that they let their precious kids play while they can because they won't be able to once they go to school!
I've been debating this. Or not sending her at all. Kindy's not required here- wondering if I should just skip it. Also wondering if this is just public schools and I need another year to find the right place for her. It's tough- her daycare is amazing, I feel like I'm throwing her to the wolves. Thought I had done my research until that orientation.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:49 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I've been debating this. Or not sending her at all. Kindy's not required here- wondering if I should just skip it. Also wondering if this is just public schools and I need another year to find the right place for her. It's tough- her daycare is amazing, I feel like I'm throwing her to the wolves. Thought I had done my research until that orientation.
I held both my sons back a year and have not regretted it. They were both within 3 weeks of being 6 yrs old when they began kindergarten. Kindergarten is mandatory here!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:51 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

I do feel our kindy asks for them to know to much when they start. They want them to know upper and lowercase letters, be able to write first and last name, be able to recognize letters to 20, know all colors and shapes (even some of the more odd shapes that I still struggle with lol). But they won't not let them go to school over it. The first three days here are "assessment" days. So each child in kindy only goes one of the first three days. I don't think I knew any of the stuff starting kindy they want the kids to know now, and I went to preschool lol.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:58 AM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
I do feel our kindy asks for them to know to much when they start. They want them to know upper and lowercase letters, be able to write first and last name, be able to recognize letters to 20, know all colors and shapes (even some of the more odd shapes that I still struggle with lol). But they won't not let them go to school over it. The first three days here are "assessment" days. So each child in kindy only goes one of the first three days. I don't think I knew any of the stuff starting kindy they want the kids to know now, and I went to preschool lol.
I agree....they throw in body parts here like jaw, heel, thigh....so kindy teachers have told me to work on the parts that are less talked about.....then they have to draw a picture of a person...no stick people or you get discounted for not having a neck....I see this happen every year and some mad parents to go with it...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-19-2016, 12:18 PM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
I agree....they throw in body parts here like jaw, heel, thigh....so kindy teachers have told me to work on the parts that are less talked about.....then they have to draw a picture of a person...no stick people or you get discounted for not having a neck....I see this happen every year and some mad parents to go with it...
They didn't say anything about body parts, but they wouldn't give me "the list" because I wasn't bringing a child to kindy roundup. My set of parents with my kiddo starting kindy in the fall were supposed to give me the list to copy so I could work with him more, but didn't. So I guess I don't have to do the teaching. I am at an impass with these parents anyway. When kiddo learns something new, dad takes credit saying "I have been working so hard with him!". But mom, boy and older sister said none of them work with him at home. Dad asked me to teach him to tie shoes. And I would, except noone is doing it at home, so I have dug my heals in on this one. He also needs an assessment that they refuse to get done. This family is grating on my last nerve right now. It is like they want someone else to do everything with their kids. Oops went off on a whole other topic sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-19-2016, 12:30 PM
sharlan's Avatar
sharlan sharlan is online now
Advanced Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chino, California
Posts: 5,817
Default

I'm not understanding this "need to learn" and formal preschool.

I recently lost a barely, nonverbal, not potty trained, 2 yo because her parents "need her to learn". I mentioned to her parents that they needed to have her speech evaluated as she only grunted her wants. Their response was to put her in preschool from 6AM to 6PM daily so she could learn to talk.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-19-2016, 12:56 PM
EntropyControlSpecialist's Avatar
EntropyControlSpecialist EntropyControlSpecialist is offline
Embracing the chaos.
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: A toasty environment!
Posts: 7,430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharlan View Post
I'm not understanding this "need to learn" and formal preschool.

I recently lost a barely, nonverbal, not potty trained, 2 yo because her parents "need her to learn". I mentioned to her parents that they needed to have her speech evaluated as she only grunted her wants. Their response was to put her in preschool from 6AM to 6PM daily so she could learn to talk.
It's weird. The "NEED" is weird. That's really all I can say.

Hopefully the preschool pushes for a speech evaluation.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-20-2016, 06:08 AM
Play Care's Avatar
Play Care Play Care is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 6,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
It's weird. The "NEED" is weird. That's really all I can say.

Hopefully the preschool pushes for a speech evaluation.
Sadly I find parents only believe there is an issue when a
"real" teacher tells them there is. Add to that the school likely has therapists on site and all the parent has to do is sign off on it...
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-20-2016, 06:46 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Play Care View Post
Sadly I find parents only believe there is an issue when a
"real" teacher tells them there is. Add to that the school likely has therapists on site and all the parent has to do is sign off on it...
I agree with this, but I wish more parents understood that their child may need more than the on site therapist can provide. My son had speech therapy in school. Looking back on it I wish I had also gotten him therapy elsewhere. He saw the therapist for 10-15 minutes twice a week. It took seven years before he was able to quit the therapy. I think had I done it elsewhere, it would have been faster and maybe better.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-22-2016, 08:56 PM
Mom2Two's Avatar
Mom2Two Mom2Two is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: U. S. A.
Posts: 1,253
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSteinel'sHouse View Post
exactly! I had parents that were totally happy with my care and what their dd was learning until their dd was turning 4 then within the month they had "found a spot" at a preschool even though she wouldn't be going to kindergarten for another year and a half! Whosh... she was gone in February. They were worried she wouldn't be "ready" for kindergarten! Even though she already knew most of her letters etc all through play. <sigh>
There are pre-k common core standards now. Kindergarten readiness. I am doing kindergarten readiness with my four year olds, and I do tell parents that. But most of the free play at my home takes care of the true needs that preschoolers need, and I just add a little bit of light weight letter and number learning to that.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-23-2016, 06:03 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Two View Post
There are pre-k common core standards now. Kindergarten readiness. I am doing kindergarten readiness with my four year olds, and I do tell parents that. But most of the free play at my home takes care of the true needs that preschoolers need, and I just add a little bit of light weight letter and number learning to that.
See I am doing that also. Letters, numbers, colors and lots of play. But it seems parents are starting to think that their kids need to be reading or something.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-23-2016, 08:27 AM
Blackcat31's Avatar
Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 16,967
Default 4 Things Worse than Not Learning to Read in Kindergarten

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gaye-g...b_9985028.html

"The year Sam started kindergarten, he turned 6 in October. He was one of the oldest children in his class, and he didn’t know how to read. When he started first grade he was almost 7, and he still didn’t know how to read.

Fortunately for Sam, he entered first grade in 1999. And his teachers, Mrs. Gantt and Mrs. Floyd, didn’t panic if a child didn’t learn to read in kindergarten. In fact, they expected that most children would learn to read in first grade. (They also supported and encouraged children who learned to read easily in kindergarten, like Sam’s brother Ben.)

If Sam had started first grade this year, however, he probably would have been labelled as “slow” or “behind.” Because the new standard is that children should learn to read in kindergarten. Even though most educators know that many children aren’t ready to learn to read until first grade.

Even though countries like Finland educate kindergarteners by allowing them to play, not teaching them to academic skills. And even though the new standard causes teachers, parents and even children themselves to worry that something is “wrong” if children aren’t reading when they arrive in the first grade classroom.

But guess what? Sam wasn’t “slow” or “behind,” and neither are most of the other children who don’t read in kindergarten. Sam became a fair reader by the end of first grade, and a good reader by third grade. By the time he reached high school he was an honors student. And last weekend, he graduated from college - with a 3.93 grade point average.

So what happens when education standards require that children like Sam learn to read in kindergarten and that teachers like Mrs. Gantt and Mrs. Floyd had better make it happen? Many educators say the result is ineffective and counterproductive classroom practices. Which means that many children actually learn and retain less than they would in a developmentally-appropriate kindergarten classroom.

So here’s my advice. (You can take it with a grain of salt if you like, because I’m not a teacher. But I am Sam’s mom.) If your son or daughter doesn’t learn to read in kindergarten, relax. Because many, many things are worse than not learning to read in kindergarten. Here are four of them:

Limited time for creative play. Young children learn by playing. They learn by digging and dancing and building and knocking things down, not by filling out piles of worksheets. And they learn by interacting with other children, solving problems, sharing and cooperating, not by drilling phonics. Mrs. Gantt and Mrs. Floyd created fabulous centers and units that allowed children to learn about everything from houses to trucks to pets to oceans. And they snuck in some reading and math skills that the children didn’t even notice, because they were so busy playing and creating!

Teachers today, however, often have to limit (or even eliminate) time for centers and units, because the academic requirements they are forced to meet don’t allow time for creative learning.

Limited physical activity. Few things are more counterproductive than limiting recess and other types of physical play time for children. Children learn better when they move. Parents and teachers know this intuitively, but research also confirms it.

Children who have more opportunities to run around and play have better thinking skills and increased brain activity. And don’t assume that young children are naturally active and are getting all of the exercise they need; researchers have found that children as young as three and four are surprisingly inactive. Yet many schools are limiting or even eliminating recess, even for very young children.

Teaching that focuses on standards and testing. Teachers are increasingly under pressure to prepare their students to perform on standardized tests. This means that their focus is shifting from teaching children in ways that match their development and learning styles to “teaching to the test.”

As one teacher reported, “I have watched as my job requirements swung away from a focus on children, their individual learning styles, emotional needs, and their individual families, interests and strengths to a focus on testing, assessing and scoring young children...” This shift in focus means that teachers have less time to nurture and develop children as lifelong learners, because they’re required to focus their efforts on standards that are unrealistic for many children.

Frustration and a sense of failure. Children know when they aren’t meeting the expectations of teachers and other adults. What they don’t know, however, is that those expectations often make no sense. And because they don’t know that, they experience frustration and a sense of failure when they don’t measure up.

So the boy who thrived in his experiential preschool, but struggles in his academic -focused kindergarten may become frustrated to the point that he “hates school.” And the girl who can’t sit still for 30 minutes and fill out worksheets knows that she’s disappointing her teacher, but doesn’t know that the task isn’t appropriate for her. Which means that many normal children are becoming frustrated - and are being labelled - by an entirely unrealistic system.

As one report has bluntly stated, “Most children are eager to meet high expectations, but their tools and skills as learners as well as their enthusiasm for learning suffer when the demands are inappropriate.”

If your child is in kindergarten or first grade and hasn’t yet learned to read, don’t panic. Talk with his or her doctor about any concerns you have, but recognize that he or she is probably developing normally. If your child’s school is pushing academics in kindergarten in place of play-based learning, talk with the teacher. Chances are, she’s frustrated and under enormous pressure to get her students ready to “perform.”

If you’re stuck with a kindergarten curriculum that seems unrealistic to you and doesn’t fit your child (and assuming that changing schools is not an option), let your child know that you’re not worried about reading in kindergarten (or even early in first grade). Talk about people who learned to read later (like Sam!) and are doing just fine.

Then do things that promote real learning, like reading books he or she enjoys, playing games, teaching useful skills and getting outside as often as possible to have fun, be active and learn together"
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:24 AM
Thriftylady's Avatar
Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,887
Default

I totally agree with the part about the focus on standards and testing. My two kids were on different sides of the whole standardized testing approach. With 7.5 years between them, DS had a little bit of the standardized testing. DD has been swamped with it. I have noticed a difference with them. Kids are no longer taught as I see it, it is more that information is thrown at them and they darn well better "catch" it. Because if they don't, several things will happen. Here, if they don't pass in certain grades, they will be held back in that grade until they do pass that "grade level". This doesn't account for if the student is or isn't actually learning, nor does it address an issue with learning if there is one. We have a graduation test here in Ohio. It is changing next year but my understanding is that it is based on 8th grade material. Both of my kids passed it the first time in 7th grade. They are given I think 8 chances to pass each section, math, reading, social studies etc. Any section they don't pass they have to keep taking. There was a story on the news a week or two ago about a girl who is a senior, but couldn't walk with her class because despite having a 3.7 GPA, she hadn't passed this 8th grade level test. There is a problem there. I believe our students are getting inflated grades in my area regardless if they learn or not. Grades, not standardized tests should be a reflection on what our kids are learning I think. Take my DD. Three years of Spanish, same teacher each year. Her grade has never been below 99% in the grade book (we can view it online). She should be able to speak Spanish right? Wrong. She can't even order in the Mexican restaurant. She is a smart girl, but was thrown vocabulary in Spanish. They never did sentences, reading, or writing. She can say words, but she can't form a sentence.

In our school each year, one of the many tests is to grade the teachers. The kids take the test early in the year, then late in the year. This is supposed to measure if the teacher is teaching the materials and if they kids are learning it. Last year, two of DD's teachers decided to attach a big grade to the second test. This dropped some of the kids in the class from a B to an F. It didn't affect my DD so much, but I complained as I felt this was an unfair grade to have such a high affect on an overall grade. It wasn't supposed to be a graded test at all. Another teacher told DD's class that some teachers "were asking the students to do poorly on purpose on the first test, and do their best on the second". I know we need a way to evaluate teachers, but using standardized tests is not the way to do it IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-24-2016, 12:33 PM
LittleScholars's Avatar
LittleScholars LittleScholars is online now
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
Kindy teachers tell me that if I can teach a child to follow directions, respect others, responsibility, etc. which can be taught through play, then the teachers can teach the child. BUT if a child comes in that has NOT learned those social-emotional life skills, then the teaching can be difficult. ABC's/123's are important and my daycare kids learn those here, but they learn it all through play. If the nation takes away our ability to teach social emotional skill we will have a bunch of electronic no-emotion robotic kids running around. That is scary!
[I hope I quoted correctly. I've never used that function!]

I couldn't agree more with this. I'm very new to daycare, but I taught kindergarten for 10 years. I did work in particularly academic-heavy public schools, but I thought we asked A LOT of our kindergartners. There was almost no time to address social-emotional or play skills. We didn't even have recess until the very last year I taught, and even then it was in the form of a teacher-led character education lesson. Unfortunately, this is a growing trend. The best gift anyone could have given those children was the gift of learning how to be a child and how to navigate the world when they transitioned to kindergarten. When I opened 6 months ago I thought I would provide a much more structured academic program, and my limited experience and this forum has totally changed my mind about that.

I also completely agree that when children come in with a solid personal foundation, teachers can hit the ground running and teach just about anything. I've seen so many children come through our elementary school doors that could barely pronounce their own names at the start of the year, and were reading basic texts fluently by the end of the year. Kids that were ready on a social and emotional level for the challenge also had a great time engaging in academics.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-24-2016, 12:41 PM
Annalee's Avatar
Annalee Annalee is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleScholars View Post
[I hope I quoted correctly. I've never used that function!]

I couldn't agree more with this. I'm very new to daycare, but I taught kindergarten for 10 years. I did work in particularly academic-heavy public schools, but I thought we asked A LOT of our kindergartners. There was almost no time to address social-emotional or play skills. We didn't even have recess until the very last year I taught, and even then it was in the form of a teacher-led character education lesson. Unfortunately, this is a growing trend. The best gift anyone could have given those children was the gift of learning how to be a child and how to navigate the world when they transitioned to kindergarten. When I opened 6 months ago I thought I would provide a much more structured academic program, and my limited experience and this forum has totally changed my mind about that.

I also completely agree that when children come in with a solid personal foundation, teachers can hit the ground running and teach just about anything. I've seen so many children come through our elementary school doors that could barely pronounce their own names at the start of the year, and were reading basic texts fluently by the end of the year. Kids that were ready on a social and emotional level for the challenge also had a great time engaging in academics.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-25-2016, 07:07 PM
valleygirl's Avatar
valleygirl valleygirl is offline
Daycare.com Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 40
Default

Worksheets for a 4 year old? I think it's totally inappropriate, although the daycare where I am working temporarily (back to university in Sept) does worksheets twice a week during the "craft" time. I am very much against trying to teach academics to preschool age children, but parents can be another story entirely. They want their child to be the best and the smartest, and often think that starting early is better. Actually, what I have been learning in my ECE classes is that starting early is not better. In fact, it can inhibit children's natural inquisitiveness and desire to learn.

Children do learn things at daycare and preschool, but not academics. They learn how to interact with other children and adults that are not their parents. They can begin to learn how to resolve conflicts with their peers. But mostly, I believe that the preschool years should be about exploration and having fun. Children should be allowed to experiment with a wide variety of materials and be given open-ended activities, rather than specific tasks that must be completed in a specific way. I don't even like doing crafts with children, because often they get frustrated when trying to make it look just like the sample craft. I'd rather give kids paint, paper, scissors, glue and other materials to make their own creation.

I think having a circle time is important, because it exposes children to music, rhythm, books, different ways to tell stories. At circle time children also learn how to listen to the person who is talking, sit still, and follow various instructions. But mostly I believe that children learn through play, especially if teachers follow up on the interests of the children and build on those interests.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-26-2016, 12:45 AM
tabitha's Avatar
tabitha tabitha is offline
Mom to jake and tabitha
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: canada
Posts: 4
Default

Worksheets for pre-k kids is really too much.Kids will soon hate to learn anything and they feel disappointments early in life.It can really affect their mental health.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
preschool

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advocate for "Real" Preschool jojosmommy Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 40 06-08-2017 09:38 PM
Preschool Question NoMoreJuice! Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 19 02-13-2014 07:58 PM
Established Dayhome Adding A Pre-School Program Wigglesandgiggles Daycare Center and Family Home Forum 1 07-01-2012 08:33 PM
Daycare is Charging Me for Hours He's in Preschool? nikkimcc Parents and Guardians Forum 19 04-05-2009 05:53 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:42 AM.



Daycare.com         Find A Daycare         List Your Daycare         Toys & Products                 About Us

Daycare.com
Please read our Disclaimer before continuing.

Topics pertain mainly to the following States:

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming