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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Terming Non Napper
NillaWafers 02:12 PM 08-04-2016
I feel like I'm at my wits end. I told DCM that I would have to term if her daughter (3) didn't start napping and behaving at nap (this was a month ago). I require they sit on their mat, be quiet and read a book. She cannot do that. I have to sit next to her all during nap or she will get off her mat, grab toys, try to wake other kids. She will do this for all of the two hour nap and just NOT nap. A month ago I started a chart with stars and m&m rewards which worked. As soon as I took that away she starting acting up again (of course, she also had TWO, week long, vacations this month). She is now past my "improvement date", but she was acting ok with the chart.
This is the same girl who started a year ago and I had to use a heavy blanket and separate to even get her to nap in the first place. Everyone is up an hour early today because she woke everyone up.
WWYD? Start a chart again? I feel like if she had it her way she'd be rewarded for expected behavior all the time (ie no reward, no behavior). I'm starting to get really frustrated with her and that's not a good sign. Leaning towards terming but that would mean I would have THREE toddler spots to fill which seem to be already hard to fill right now. I guess I could also PUT another star on the calendar.
FWIW, DCG mom is great. Always has paid on time and without complaint.
This is the same girl who started a year ago and I had to use a heavy blanket and separate to even get her to nap in the first place. Everyone is up an hour early today because she woke everyone up.
WWYD? Start a chart again? I feel like if she had it her way she'd be rewarded for expected behavior all the time (ie no reward, no behavior). I'm starting to get really frustrated with her and that's not a good sign. Leaning towards terming but that would mean I would have THREE toddler spots to fill which seem to be already hard to fill right now. I guess I could also PUT another star on the calendar.
FWIW, DCG mom is great. Always has paid on time and without complaint.
JackandJill 02:37 PM 08-04-2016
That's a tough one. Can you financially have 3 open spots? If yes, than I would term. Everyone here has to nap or have quiet time. Waking kids up is a big NO NO! And 3 yrs old is old enough to understand that. Its really hard to go the whole day without some sort of break to reorganize, clean and sit! Not to mention then having a whole group of kids who haven't had enough sleep!
If you don't want to term, can she watch a movie during her quiet time? I do that with my son. Keeps him busy, he thinks its a big treat!
If you don't want to term, can she watch a movie during her quiet time? I do that with my son. Keeps him busy, he thinks its a big treat!
NillaWafers 02:44 PM 08-04-2016
My eldest is five and does not nap, he does watch TV or a movie while others nap. However, I do not want to do this with her.
I know her reasons for doing this and it's because her father, will put her down for a nap and then let her get up if she's annoying enough. She is seriously terrible after coming back from a weekend with her dad. She has even started telling her mother that she doesn't want to be with her - which obviously hurts her mom's feelings.
I can handle the reduction in income because my husband works full-time. All daycare is supplementary.
This DCG is fine at all other times, listens and follows directions well.
I know her reasons for doing this and it's because her father, will put her down for a nap and then let her get up if she's annoying enough. She is seriously terrible after coming back from a weekend with her dad. She has even started telling her mother that she doesn't want to be with her - which obviously hurts her mom's feelings.
I can handle the reduction in income because my husband works full-time. All daycare is supplementary.
This DCG is fine at all other times, listens and follows directions well.
KiwiKids 02:45 PM 08-04-2016
That is a tough one. The chart might work again but I don't know if it would work forever. But, having 3 spots open is also hard. You could try until the other spots are filled or at least one is and then if it is still a struggle, terminate care.
But on the other hand it isn't that she's just not napping, she's being disruptive and keeping other kids from napping and that is not something I would want to deal with.
I'm not much help.
But on the other hand it isn't that she's just not napping, she's being disruptive and keeping other kids from napping and that is not something I would want to deal with.
I'm not much help.
Unregistered 03:44 PM 08-04-2016
A couple of years ago I had this same problem. At that time, I updated my handbook and in the nap/rest section I added a child not napping and being disruptive consistently (being disruptive for a least 2 days). I gave 2 days grace period for parents to work with the behavior with their child at home, then I would start calling for pick up. I never had a problem again. Parents who know their child is not a napper end up enrolling for my half day program so their child wouldn't need to nap at my place.
Chickadee-Tree 03:54 PM 08-04-2016
I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
NillaWafers 04:03 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Chickadee-Tree:
I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
I see what you're saying, however, does that mean you're ok with a child who wakes other children? How would you accommodate that? The first hour is no different than the second, it's not like she just gets bored after a while and decides to act out.I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
NillaWafers 04:14 PM 08-04-2016
For example, today after 40 minutes she decided to sing loudly (and I'm even running white noise) and woke everyone in the room. So other kids who fell asleep immediately got woken the 40 minute mark.
JackandJill 04:19 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Chickadee-Tree:
I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
This is why I always say if you can't nap, its no longer a good fit. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
Before I required everyone to nap, I was sooo burnt out with out a break. Add to that trying to keep one kid from waking everyone else up, and its really, really stressful.
I agree that it is also unfair to the child, 2 hours really is an eternity to be quiet and still!
I see only two options, term due to no longer being a good fit or give up your break to keep her quiet with an activity.
Unregistered 04:57 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Chickadee-Tree:
I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
I understand what you are saying, however I believe it can be taught what is expected. Before I opened my home daycare I was a preschool teacher for 2 year olds and my class had 16 children more than half were boys. I was told by my aide, the previous teacher had no control of the class so the children did not know routine and rules, and the parents were not being informed about their children's behavior. During nap most of the children would stay up and be disruptive not only to those sleeping in their class but also to the other classes around them (classes were divided with half wall partitions). Once I took over I established a routine, told my parents my expectations, and they were on board. Within a month every child would nap at least the majority of the rest time, if they woke early they were able to rest quietly until the signal to wake up was given. I want to preface this by saying I absolutely agree that you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do, even if it's terming her. Home daycare is hard--harder than anyone else realizes!! And you have needs (like the quiet atmosphere, etc), and that's completely legitimate. Sometimes your program or your space isn't set up to make accommodations for a certain child, and if that's the case, then you do what you can to make it work, and if it doesn't work, you have to make a tough decision.
With all that said, you have to also consider that she is 3 years old. Yes, she knows the rules. But she doesn't have the self-regulation and impulse control skills to obey the rules for two looooooong hours (an ETERNITY to a young child!).
She's being set up for failure here... At my old job at a center, we weren't allowed to ask a child to stay on their bed for longer than one hour.
No one likes waiting like that... Picture yourself in a waiting room, for two hours.
-You get a magazine or two--but they're written in Greek, so you can't read them, only look at pictures.
-When you try to talk to someone nearby, the receptionist freaks out; she harshly shushes you up and glares at you.
-When you want to stand up, stretch your legs, etc, again, the receptionist admonishes you--"SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW! That is your chair, and you need to sit in it until we call you. Read your magazine in silence!"
Crappy way to spend two hours, right? Imagine doing it every day?
Now I have the same routine and rules at my home daycare, and after being open for 5 years, I've only had 2 children have problem with being disruptive at nap time. For both, there was no routine or follow through at home regarding nap (parents would give up if child refused to nap after 20minutes) as told to me by the parents. They were hoping I would fix the problem for their child to nap, but they never thought they had to continue at home what I did at daycare, so it was a losing battle and ended up terming them. Even the youngest children in my daycare, 2 year old and 16 month old, if they wake up early, which they do since they only sleep an hour, are able to lay quietly until it's time to wake up. I refuse to stress myself out when there is no need to.
childcaremom 05:10 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by NillaWafers:
My eldest is five and does not nap, he does watch TV or a movie while others nap. However, I do not want to do this with her.
I know her reasons for doing this and it's because her father, will put her down for a nap and then let her get up if she's annoying enough. She is seriously terrible after coming back from a weekend with her dad. She has even started telling her mother that she doesn't want to be with her - which obviously hurts her mom's feelings.
I can handle the reduction in income because my husband works full-time. All daycare is supplementary.
This DCG is fine at all other times, listens and follows directions well.
I would term. Btdt.My eldest is five and does not nap, he does watch TV or a movie while others nap. However, I do not want to do this with her.
I know her reasons for doing this and it's because her father, will put her down for a nap and then let her get up if she's annoying enough. She is seriously terrible after coming back from a weekend with her dad. She has even started telling her mother that she doesn't want to be with her - which obviously hurts her mom's feelings.
I can handle the reduction in income because my husband works full-time. All daycare is supplementary.
This DCG is fine at all other times, listens and follows directions well.
Unregistered 06:20 PM 08-04-2016
Charge more for non nappers.
Blackcat31 06:34 PM 08-04-2016
@NillaWafers... It seems like its a stressor for you in general?
Me? I'd term.
When I first opened and was trying to really build a reputation I put up with, accommodated and allowed alot more than I am willing to do now.
Back then the balanced tipped toward needing the income verses the sanity. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and I value a stress free day MORE than I value the dollar.
Do what works for you at this moment in your life.
You can't go wrong
Me? I'd term.
When I first opened and was trying to really build a reputation I put up with, accommodated and allowed alot more than I am willing to do now.
Back then the balanced tipped toward needing the income verses the sanity. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and I value a stress free day MORE than I value the dollar.
Do what works for you at this moment in your life.
You can't go wrong
Chickadee-Tree 06:45 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by NillaWafers:
I see what you're saying, however, does that mean you're ok with a child who wakes other children? How would you accommodate that? The first hour is no different than the second, it's not like she just gets bored after a while and decides to act out.
When I decided to open my home daycare, one of the very first "must-haves" I decided on was a separate nap area (luckily, I was able to designate a bedroom in the house as the nap room. I totally understand that this is not possible for many people!). I see what you're saying, however, does that mean you're ok with a child who wakes other children? How would you accommodate that? The first hour is no different than the second, it's not like she just gets bored after a while and decides to act out.
Non-nappers (older kids, usually, but I even have a 2.5 yr old who doesn't nap sometimes) stay in the living room/playroom watching tv or doing quiet activities (puzzles, books, blocks, cars, coloring, anything that doesn't involve loud noises).
I take the nappers to the bedroom, and get them settled (yes, I rub backs, and even rock them when needed, I'm sure many people will be horrified, lol...)
This usually takes about 20-30 mins usually, longer if I have more nappers. If a child is being too disruptive in the bedroom, they leave the room. I either send them to the hallway (where I have a soft, comfy spot and small basket of books. This is where the fan/white noise is on, and it's dark) if I am planning on trying again. If I know the child is "done" and won't be sleeping at all, I'll just send them back to the living room/playroom.
If I were you, I'd just let her watch tv while you put the others down, then take a bit of a break. It sounds like she's just done with naps...which is probably pretty common at her age.
Otherwise, I'd probably try designating an area where she can go if/when not napping... As long as she's being quiet, I'd allow a small variety of books, puzzles, "quiet books", "busy bags" or whatever....Those reusable sticker pads where you can decorate/redecorate different scenes, stuff like that. I'd rotate item choices periodically. If she gets loud, have a consequence (maybe back to books only, or something).
If she is still too disruptive after giving her a fair alternative, then at least you can terminate her and honestly tell her parents that you tried to give her options/accommodate her, but it's just not working.
Just my 2 cents
Blackcat31 06:50 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Chickadee-Tree:
When I decided to open my home daycare, one of the very first "must-haves" I decided on was a separate nap area (luckily, I was able to designate a bedroom in the house as the nap room. I totally understand that this is not possible for many people!).
Non-nappers (older kids, usually, but I even have a 2.5 yr old who doesn't nap sometimes) stay in the living room/playroom watching tv or doing quiet activities (puzzles, books, blocks, cars, coloring, anything that doesn't involve loud noises).
I take the nappers to the bedroom, and get them settled (yes, I rub backs, and even rock them when needed, I'm sure many people will be horrified, lol...)
This usually takes about 20-30 mins usually, longer if I have more nappers. If a child is being too disruptive in the bedroom, they leave the room. I either send them to the hallway (where I have a soft, comfy spot and small basket of books. This is where the fan/white noise is on, and it's dark) if I am planning on trying again. If I know the child is "done" and won't be sleeping at all, I'll just send them back to the living room/playroom.
If I were you, I'd just let her watch tv while you put the others down, then take a bit of a break. It sounds like she's just done with naps...which is probably pretty common at her age.
Otherwise, I'd probably try designating an area where she can go if/when not napping... As long as she's being quiet, I'd allow a small variety of books, puzzles, "quiet books", "busy bags" or whatever....Those reusable sticker pads where you can decorate/redecorate different scenes, stuff like that. I'd rotate item choices periodically. If she gets loud, have a consequence (maybe back to books only, or something).
If she is still too disruptive after giving her a fair alternative, then at least you can terminate her and honestly tell her parents that you tried to give her options/accommodate her, but it's just not working.
Just my 2 cents
Can I ask, how long you've been open/in businesss? When I decided to open my home daycare, one of the very first "must-haves" I decided on was a separate nap area (luckily, I was able to designate a bedroom in the house as the nap room. I totally understand that this is not possible for many people!).
Non-nappers (older kids, usually, but I even have a 2.5 yr old who doesn't nap sometimes) stay in the living room/playroom watching tv or doing quiet activities (puzzles, books, blocks, cars, coloring, anything that doesn't involve loud noises).
I take the nappers to the bedroom, and get them settled (yes, I rub backs, and even rock them when needed, I'm sure many people will be horrified, lol...)
This usually takes about 20-30 mins usually, longer if I have more nappers. If a child is being too disruptive in the bedroom, they leave the room. I either send them to the hallway (where I have a soft, comfy spot and small basket of books. This is where the fan/white noise is on, and it's dark) if I am planning on trying again. If I know the child is "done" and won't be sleeping at all, I'll just send them back to the living room/playroom.
If I were you, I'd just let her watch tv while you put the others down, then take a bit of a break. It sounds like she's just done with naps...which is probably pretty common at her age.
Otherwise, I'd probably try designating an area where she can go if/when not napping... As long as she's being quiet, I'd allow a small variety of books, puzzles, "quiet books", "busy bags" or whatever....Those reusable sticker pads where you can decorate/redecorate different scenes, stuff like that. I'd rotate item choices periodically. If she gets loud, have a consequence (maybe back to books only, or something).
If she is still too disruptive after giving her a fair alternative, then at least you can terminate her and honestly tell her parents that you tried to give her options/accommodate her, but it's just not working.
Just my 2 cents
Do you have kids of your own?
Chickadee-Tree 07:00 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by JackandJill:
This is why I always say if you can't nap, its no longer a good fit.
Before I required everyone to nap, I was sooo burnt out with out a break. Add to that trying to keep one kid from waking everyone else up, and its really, really stressful.
I agree that it is also unfair to the child, 2 hours really is an eternity to be quiet and still!
I see only two options, term due to no longer being a good fit or give up your break to keep her quiet with an activity.
I take a break while my older/non nappers have free quiet play and/or tv time. I grab a coffee, read stuff online, eat lunch. I usually only have to throw out a couple reminders occasionally, so it doesn't get too messy or loud, etc. This is why I always say if you can't nap, its no longer a good fit.
Before I required everyone to nap, I was sooo burnt out with out a break. Add to that trying to keep one kid from waking everyone else up, and its really, really stressful.
I agree that it is also unfair to the child, 2 hours really is an eternity to be quiet and still!
I see only two options, term due to no longer being a good fit or give up your break to keep her quiet with an activity.
If you have non-napping kids who need constant interaction or intervention, then absolutely I'd say it's not working, term them ASAP!
Chickadee-Tree 08:08 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Can I ask, how long you've been open/in businesss?
Do you have kids of your own?
I've worked in childcare for over 10 years now (ECE for 8), but mostly in a center. Home daycare for just over a year now. Can I ask, how long you've been open/in businesss?
Do you have kids of your own?
I can hear you all out there, "ohhh, yup. You'll be changing your tune soon enough.."
And I'm sure I will change things over time, and not put up with some things I do now, as a new provider.
But I am really stubborn and set in my idealistic ways... I always look at things from the developmental perspective, and it's a really hard thing to balance as a home daycare provider--what works in the real world vs. what's developmentally realistic for a child.
Like when you need 4 or 5 young children to all sleep together in one room, and there's only one adult!
Just to clarify-- I don't coddle each kid every day or anything, lol... I just don't object to rubbing a back or rocking a baby if they're taking longer than usual to fall asleep. I've got one baby who I bottle feed/rock, then I'll go to anyone else who's kinda restless that day. Many times that's no one, but many times there's one or two still wiggling around. We always rubbed backs/rocked/held babies at the centres where I worked, I've just always thought that's kind of normal.
No, I don't have my own kids yet, just a bunch of nieces and nephews
Blackcat31 09:28 PM 08-04-2016
Originally Posted by Chickadee-Tree:
I've worked in childcare for over 10 years now (ECE for 8), but mostly in a center. Home daycare for just over a year now.
I can hear you all out there, "ohhh, yup. You'll be changing your tune soon enough.."
And I'm sure I will change things over time, and not put up with some things I do now, as a new provider.
But I am really stubborn and set in my idealistic ways... I always look at things from the developmental perspective, and it's a really hard thing to balance as a home daycare provider--what works in the real world vs. what's developmentally realistic for a child.
Like when you need 4 or 5 young children to all sleep together in one room, and there's only one adult!
Just to clarify-- I don't coddle each kid every day or anything, lol... I just don't object to rubbing a back or rocking a baby if they're taking longer than usual to fall asleep. I've got one baby who I bottle feed/rock, then I'll go to anyone else who's kinda restless that day. Many times that's no one, but many times there's one or two still wiggling around. We always rubbed backs/rocked/held babies at the centres where I worked, I've just always thought that's kind of normal.
No, I don't have my own kids yet, just a bunch of nieces and nephews
I was just curious how many years experience you had as a business ownerI've worked in childcare for over 10 years now (ECE for 8), but mostly in a center. Home daycare for just over a year now.
I can hear you all out there, "ohhh, yup. You'll be changing your tune soon enough.."
And I'm sure I will change things over time, and not put up with some things I do now, as a new provider.
But I am really stubborn and set in my idealistic ways... I always look at things from the developmental perspective, and it's a really hard thing to balance as a home daycare provider--what works in the real world vs. what's developmentally realistic for a child.
Like when you need 4 or 5 young children to all sleep together in one room, and there's only one adult!
Just to clarify-- I don't coddle each kid every day or anything, lol... I just don't object to rubbing a back or rocking a baby if they're taking longer than usual to fall asleep. I've got one baby who I bottle feed/rock, then I'll go to anyone else who's kinda restless that day. Many times that's no one, but many times there's one or two still wiggling around. We always rubbed backs/rocked/held babies at the centres where I worked, I've just always thought that's kind of normal.
No, I don't have my own kids yet, just a bunch of nieces and nephews
Josiegirl 04:33 AM 08-05-2016
Napping, potty training, and having kids eat veggies. 
Three places in my dc where I could use more cooperation from the kids. Lol And not one of those things can be forced upon a child.
I have a couple dcks who don't like to nap and one of those kids, I swear, is practicing gymnastics the whole of quiet time. One dcg I had to separate completely from the group, just turned 3, because she'd keep getting off her cot, screaming, running around, etc. I have no idea what caused the change but I ended up putting her cot in the kitchen and it worked like a charm. Maybe it's the hum of the refrigerator, IDK. I have music playing while they rest.
I have heard from the dcps of all of them, that they'll lay down with them at home, co-sleep, or the gymnastics dcg won't fall asleep at night until 9-10, whether she has napped here or not. Dcm says 'looks like she just doesn't require that much sleep'.
But she's all wiggly at home too, and co-sleeps. It sounds like musical beds for them at night.
Anyways, Chickadee-tree, while I agree with some of what you said, I still think a 3 yo needs to rest her body and take that break during the day. I wouldn't actually compare it to an adult waiting in a waiting room though. Lots of variables between those 2 situations. But I do think a 2 hour quiet time for those not able to fall asleep is probably too much.
I let them have books and stuffed animals during nap time, if they've earned them during the a.m. I keep them separated with barriers so they can't see each other(though they scoot around a lot) and I play music. Depending on who it is, after 45 minutes, I will let them up into the living room to play quietly. In the past, I've given quiet boxes for those who didn't sleep. It worked as long as they got something fresh and new every day, to hold their interest.
I'm lucky to have quiet time from 12:30-2. Wednesday it was 12:30-1:15 because of a crier waking the rest up. So the rest of the day was bumpy.
I have a 5 yo this summer; she was in FT prek this past school season and attends another dc when I can't take her. She sleeps in both of the other places but knows what strings to pull here.
However she's MUCH quieter than she used to be now. Rather than coming to me every 5 minutes complaining she's bored, she entertains herself nicely until others wake up.
So yeh, nap time for non-nappers is hard so if you cannot make it work for 1, make it work for the rest and do what you have to do for the better of your group, AND your own sanity. You're in a good position since you technically don't need the income.
Three places in my dc where I could use more cooperation from the kids. Lol And not one of those things can be forced upon a child.I have a couple dcks who don't like to nap and one of those kids, I swear, is practicing gymnastics the whole of quiet time. One dcg I had to separate completely from the group, just turned 3, because she'd keep getting off her cot, screaming, running around, etc. I have no idea what caused the change but I ended up putting her cot in the kitchen and it worked like a charm. Maybe it's the hum of the refrigerator, IDK. I have music playing while they rest.
I have heard from the dcps of all of them, that they'll lay down with them at home, co-sleep, or the gymnastics dcg won't fall asleep at night until 9-10, whether she has napped here or not. Dcm says 'looks like she just doesn't require that much sleep'.
But she's all wiggly at home too, and co-sleeps. It sounds like musical beds for them at night.Anyways, Chickadee-tree, while I agree with some of what you said, I still think a 3 yo needs to rest her body and take that break during the day. I wouldn't actually compare it to an adult waiting in a waiting room though. Lots of variables between those 2 situations. But I do think a 2 hour quiet time for those not able to fall asleep is probably too much.
I let them have books and stuffed animals during nap time, if they've earned them during the a.m. I keep them separated with barriers so they can't see each other(though they scoot around a lot
) and I play music. Depending on who it is, after 45 minutes, I will let them up into the living room to play quietly. In the past, I've given quiet boxes for those who didn't sleep. It worked as long as they got something fresh and new every day, to hold their interest. I'm lucky to have quiet time from 12:30-2. Wednesday it was 12:30-1:15 because of a crier waking the rest up. So the rest of the day was bumpy.
I have a 5 yo this summer; she was in FT prek this past school season and attends another dc when I can't take her. She sleeps in both of the other places but knows what strings to pull here.
However she's MUCH quieter than she used to be now. Rather than coming to me every 5 minutes complaining she's bored, she entertains herself nicely until others wake up.So yeh, nap time for non-nappers is hard so if you cannot make it work for 1, make it work for the rest and do what you have to do for the better of your group, AND your own sanity. You're in a good position since you technically don't need the income.
Play Care 04:56 AM 08-05-2016
I can and I have termed due to non-napping.
My own kids dropped naps around 3, so I sympathize. I simply can't accommodate it - in my state non nappers can NOT watch tv, and I don't have the space for them to be awake elsewhere and doing provider led activity.
My contract says "if your child has outgrown nap they have outgrown my care."
I would not give another month, you've BTDT. Two week notice.
My own kids dropped naps around 3, so I sympathize. I simply can't accommodate it - in my state non nappers can NOT watch tv, and I don't have the space for them to be awake elsewhere and doing provider led activity.
My contract says "if your child has outgrown nap they have outgrown my care."
I would not give another month, you've BTDT. Two week notice.
NillaWafers 08:36 AM 08-05-2016
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
Napping, potty training, and having kids eat veggies. Three places in my dc where I could use more cooperation from the kids. Lol And not one of those things can be forced upon a child.
I have a couple dcks who don't like to nap and one of those kids, I swear, is practicing gymnastics the whole of quiet time. One dcg I had to separate completely from the group, just turned 3, because she'd keep getting off her cot, screaming, running around, etc. I have no idea what caused the change but I ended up putting her cot in the kitchen and it worked like a charm. Maybe it's the hum of the refrigerator, IDK. I have music playing while they rest.
I have heard from the dcps of all of them, that they'll lay down with them at home, co-sleep, or the gymnastics dcg won't fall asleep at night until 9-10, whether she has napped here or not. Dcm says 'looks like she just doesn't require that much sleep'. But she's all wiggly at home too, and co-sleeps. It sounds like musical beds for them at night.
Anyways, Chickadee-tree, while I agree with some of what you said, I still think a 3 yo needs to rest her body and take that break during the day. I wouldn't actually compare it to an adult waiting in a waiting room though. Lots of variables between those 2 situations. But I do think a 2 hour quiet time for those not able to fall asleep is probably too much.
I let them have books and stuffed animals during nap time, if they've earned them during the a.m. I keep them separated with barriers so they can't see each other(though they scoot around a lot) and I play music. Depending on who it is, after 45 minutes, I will let them up into the living room to play quietly. In the past, I've given quiet boxes for those who didn't sleep. It worked as long as they got something fresh and new every day, to hold their interest.
I'm lucky to have quiet time from 12:30-2. Wednesday it was 12:30-1:15 because of a crier waking the rest up. So the rest of the day was bumpy.
I have a 5 yo this summer; she was in FT prek this past school season and attends another dc when I can't take her. She sleeps in both of the other places but knows what strings to pull here. However she's MUCH quieter than she used to be now. Rather than coming to me every 5 minutes complaining she's bored, she entertains herself nicely until others wake up.
So yeh, nap time for non-nappers is hard so if you cannot make it work for 1, make it work for the rest and do what you have to do for the better of your group, AND your own sanity. You're in a good position since you technically don't need the income.
Ok, I've given it a lot of thought. I've decided to give it one last push. I will be putting her in the kitchen now. Heavy blanket, white noise. Hoping even if hse doesn't sleep she won't interrupt and I won't have to term at least.Napping, potty training, and having kids eat veggies.
Three places in my dc where I could use more cooperation from the kids. Lol And not one of those things can be forced upon a child.I have a couple dcks who don't like to nap and one of those kids, I swear, is practicing gymnastics the whole of quiet time. One dcg I had to separate completely from the group, just turned 3, because she'd keep getting off her cot, screaming, running around, etc. I have no idea what caused the change but I ended up putting her cot in the kitchen and it worked like a charm. Maybe it's the hum of the refrigerator, IDK. I have music playing while they rest.
I have heard from the dcps of all of them, that they'll lay down with them at home, co-sleep, or the gymnastics dcg won't fall asleep at night until 9-10, whether she has napped here or not. Dcm says 'looks like she just doesn't require that much sleep'.
But she's all wiggly at home too, and co-sleeps. It sounds like musical beds for them at night.Anyways, Chickadee-tree, while I agree with some of what you said, I still think a 3 yo needs to rest her body and take that break during the day. I wouldn't actually compare it to an adult waiting in a waiting room though. Lots of variables between those 2 situations. But I do think a 2 hour quiet time for those not able to fall asleep is probably too much.
I let them have books and stuffed animals during nap time, if they've earned them during the a.m. I keep them separated with barriers so they can't see each other(though they scoot around a lot
) and I play music. Depending on who it is, after 45 minutes, I will let them up into the living room to play quietly. In the past, I've given quiet boxes for those who didn't sleep. It worked as long as they got something fresh and new every day, to hold their interest. I'm lucky to have quiet time from 12:30-2. Wednesday it was 12:30-1:15 because of a crier waking the rest up. So the rest of the day was bumpy.
I have a 5 yo this summer; she was in FT prek this past school season and attends another dc when I can't take her. She sleeps in both of the other places but knows what strings to pull here.
However she's MUCH quieter than she used to be now. Rather than coming to me every 5 minutes complaining she's bored, she entertains herself nicely until others wake up.So yeh, nap time for non-nappers is hard so if you cannot make it work for 1, make it work for the rest and do what you have to do for the better of your group, AND your own sanity. You're in a good position since you technically don't need the income.
Hubby and I are trying to pay off debt to move to the NW, so losing that income would mean we wouldn't get up there as fast. Even if it wouldn't technically hurt us a ton to lose it, I'd rather not have to fill that spot.
If she doesn't show improvement with this (no chart, no rewards, just separation, and quiet), I will term for sure. This is pretty hard for me because honestly, I enjoy her most of the day unless it's naptime.
CityGarden 10:05 PM 08-05-2016
I would not term, but I would have a very candid conversation with the mom / dad about the challenges you are having and ask them to partner with you in a consistent routine at home.
My reasoning for not terming is that you have been working hard to fill the two open spots you have at present.... maybe after you fill those consider terming. I just don't think you want the stress of three open spots, since two children are your own I just don't know if it's worth the work for so few dcks.
My reasoning for not terming is that you have been working hard to fill the two open spots you have at present.... maybe after you fill those consider terming. I just don't think you want the stress of three open spots, since two children are your own I just don't know if it's worth the work for so few dcks.
Unregistered 05:26 PM 08-09-2016
I wouldn't term. But that is just me.
Especially if she does well throughout the rest of the day.
In addition I don't have the luxury of terming for that reason. It's not so easy to replace kids here.
I have two separate DC rooms and I have had one preschool non napper play quietly in the smaller room where we eat. So it's table toys, & quiet table activities.
Over the years I've had to put a child in my dining room and that's where I'd lay this child. It's different for you. Your own child is up and this little girl sounds like she won't lay quietly for at least an hour. I need at least an hour for a break.
It's a tough situation! I just find I don't have to term non-nap ores because I don't have my own kids at home and my separate DC rooms.
Especially if she does well throughout the rest of the day.
In addition I don't have the luxury of terming for that reason. It's not so easy to replace kids here.
I have two separate DC rooms and I have had one preschool non napper play quietly in the smaller room where we eat. So it's table toys, & quiet table activities.
Over the years I've had to put a child in my dining room and that's where I'd lay this child. It's different for you. Your own child is up and this little girl sounds like she won't lay quietly for at least an hour. I need at least an hour for a break.
It's a tough situation! I just find I don't have to term non-nap ores because I don't have my own kids at home and my separate DC rooms.
Pestle 07:43 PM 08-10-2016
I feel you--I have a difficult pair of siblings, and the older one screams. bloody. murder all through nap time. She's age three. When she sees her brother pass out, she yells, "He fell asleep! He's asleep!" over and over again. It takes 1-1.5 hours to get both of them to sleep.
Her mother says she naps at home without any problem.
On days when I only have the siblings, I put them down on mats and stay close by so I can remove the younger one to the quiet corner when he tries to trample his sister. But when there's another napper here, I've resorted to sticking the stompy kid in a crib so he won't break the other kids' ribs, and plunking this big girl down in the baby's crib in the living room and letting her scream (and scream, and scream) for half an hour until she's worn out and finally sleeps. I'm opposed to cribs for any child who can crawl (Montessori family here), so it's embarrassing that I'm doing this. Due to the younger brother's aggressive behavior, I've taken y'alls advice and am now advertising three available spaces instead of just one--if I can find a family that pays on time, produces vaccination records without a fuss, and has children who aren't actively trying to break everything I own, I'll be happy to term.
Her mother says she naps at home without any problem.
On days when I only have the siblings, I put them down on mats and stay close by so I can remove the younger one to the quiet corner when he tries to trample his sister. But when there's another napper here, I've resorted to sticking the stompy kid in a crib so he won't break the other kids' ribs, and plunking this big girl down in the baby's crib in the living room and letting her scream (and scream, and scream) for half an hour until she's worn out and finally sleeps. I'm opposed to cribs for any child who can crawl (Montessori family here), so it's embarrassing that I'm doing this. Due to the younger brother's aggressive behavior, I've taken y'alls advice and am now advertising three available spaces instead of just one--if I can find a family that pays on time, produces vaccination records without a fuss, and has children who aren't actively trying to break everything I own, I'll be happy to term.
NillaWafers 08:26 AM 08-11-2016
Just an update. I moved her to the kitchen for naps. She is much quieter there without the other kids - if she doesn't nap, oh well. But often after an hour she is asleep. So this is much more tolerable to me than having to sit by her.