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Old 04-11-2018, 01:08 PM
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Luipefiasco Luipefiasco is offline
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Default Terminating Care During Trial Period

This might be a common question, so sorry if it was addressed in a previous thread.

I recently started care with an in-home daycare provider. We made our initial non-refundable deposit to reserve our spot months ago and then had our first day on Monday. We had not signed our contract as the way the provider has it set up, is that the first two weeks are considered a trial period for both parent and provider and then after the 2 weeks we would sign the contract, and then the deposit be used for the 3rd week of care.

On the first day we brought the check for our first week. By lunchtime we rec'd word that it was "not going well", our 4month old would not eat, nap, and was crying all day (uncharacteristic) instead of reassuring 1st time parents that this was normal in the transition, the provider seemed overwhelmed and I left work early. Then on Day 2, there was no improvement, however we stuck it out and my wife picked up our baby at 4:00. After Day 2 we decided to not to return to the provider and I put a stop payment on the check. I found it unjust compensation that the provider have 2 weeks worth of pay for 1.5 days worth of care. I would also like to note that we did not have a contract in place. I have already cancelled the check, but wanted to get opinions from the group.

IMO, we were not bound by contract. I was extremely unhappy with the care and believe that without a contract the provider will not have a leg to stand on if they choose to go the route of small claims court.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2018, 01:21 PM
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If there was no contract nothing signed , then yes you shouldnt have to pay for 2 weeks of care BUT you do need to pay for the 2 days of care you recieved.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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I agree with mom boss. You should at least pay for the 2 days of care that weíre provided.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:37 PM
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When you decided not to return, did you speak with the provider and ask if you would receive a refund for the two unused days? Personally, if I stop a check, it cost me a fee to do so, so if you had just asked and she refunded it, then you would only be out the money for the 3 days. And yes, you must pay her for the days she worked, even the half day. You were in a trial period where you can both end the arrangement at any time, but she still needs to be compensated for the time she worked. What's done is done, but I would at least make sure she gets paid for the days that she worked. The deposit will cover while she finds someone new to fill the spot.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:38 PM
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2 days of pay is definitely warranted.

While yes, it was during the trial period, nobody should work for free in ANY profession.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:59 PM
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So you stopped payment on a check that she may have already deposited, and possibly caused her to bounce checks?? and you've certainly caused her to have a returned item fee?

Stopping payment on a check also has very specific legal requirements so you may have possibly broken the law. It's not intended for what you used it for.

You should have asked her for a refund for unused time.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:30 PM
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I would also point out that you canít just say what the 2 days is worth to you. Most providers have a weekly rate and you should at least pay the rate you agreed upon for that week if she requests it since you pulled.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
So you stopped payment on a check that she may have already deposited, and possibly caused her to bounce checks?? and you've certainly caused her to have a returned item fee?

Stopping payment on a check also has very specific legal requirements so you may have possibly broken the law. It's not intended for what you used it for.

You should have asked her for a refund for unused time.


This just smacks of "I didn't get my way so I'm going to throw a fit"
The provider is probably thanking her lucky stars she got off so easily.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:46 AM
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This just smacks of "I didn't get my way so I'm going to throw a fit"
The provider is probably thanking her lucky stars she got off so easily.

Even with a trial period the provider is still entitled to be paid for the time she had your child. Honestly the entire week in my opinion. Hopefully she keeps your deposit then. That is not a professional way to behave at all. This is why I have parents sign the contract at the start. Yes there is a trial period they can not give me notice but they will pay me for the time their children are there.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luipefiasco View Post
This might be a common question, so sorry if it was addressed in a previous thread.

I recently started care with an in-home daycare provider. We made our initial non-refundable deposit to reserve our spot months ago and then had our first day on Monday. We had not signed our contract as the way the provider has it set up, is that the first two weeks are considered a trial period for both parent and provider and then after the 2 weeks we would sign the contract, and then the deposit be used for the 3rd week of care.

On the first day we brought the check for our first week. By lunchtime we rec'd word that it was "not going well", our 4month old would not eat, nap, and was crying all day (uncharacteristic) instead of reassuring 1st time parents that this was normal in the transition, the provider seemed overwhelmed and I left work early. Then on Day 2, there was no improvement, however we stuck it out and my wife picked up our baby at 4:00. After Day 2 we decided to not to return to the provider and I put a stop payment on the check. I found it unjust compensation that the provider have 2 weeks worth of pay for 1.5 days worth of care. I would also like to note that we did not have a contract in place. I have already cancelled the check, but wanted to get opinions from the group.

IMO, we were not bound by contract. I was extremely unhappy with the care and believe that without a contract the provider will not have a leg to stand on if they choose to go the route of small claims court.

Thoughts?
So, your infant cried for hours the first day, wouldnít eat or rest, and youíd rather just hear ďItís normalĒ, rather than ďItís not going wellĒ? Honest communication is vital in a provider/parent relationship. I also would have let a parent know it was a rough day.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:32 PM
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So I should probably give a little more details. I completely agree that the provider is entitled to pay for the 1.5 days. I would even be ok with a full week if care was up to snuff. The providers communication was of how the first day was going was ďNot goodĒ. I was forced to leave work because she gave zero guidance if I needed to pick up the child or if this transition was normal. Each day my childís eyes were covered in dried tears (he never cries) and drainage from a clogged tear duct was all over his face on the 2nd pick up day (the last day). The provider also refused to use our Merlin Sleep Suit, even after we had a doctor confirm the baby still had a startle reflex and she would not swaddle. The provider was very rigid and not flexible. On top of the fact they failed to inform us they were a 4 infant home and the husband was a permanent provider and not just a substitute like it is detailed in her handbook.

I cancelled the check because she noted she would not be refunding the first weeks pay. It is easier for me to cut her a check for 2 days as opposed to trying to recoup that money from her after the fact. Iím open to working with her but if she expects me to pay a full week then she can try her luck in small claims court without a signed contract to stand on.

I understand the hardship of losing an infant from a providers standpoint but it was a trial period not only for the child/parents but also the provider, and she failed miserably and at the end of the day the cancelled check will help my family find care in the interim as that is no easy feat either.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luipefiasco View Post
So I should probably give a little more details. I completely agree that the provider is entitled to pay for the 1.5 days. I would even be ok with a full week if care was up to snuff. The providers communication was of how the first day was going was ďNot goodĒ. I was forced to leave work because she gave zero guidance if I needed to pick up the child or if this transition was normal. Each day my childís eyes were covered in dried tears (he never cries) and drainage from a clogged tear duct was all over his face on the 2nd pick up day (the last day). The provider also refused to use our Merlin Sleep Suit, even after we had a doctor confirm the baby still had a startle reflex and she would not swaddle. The provider was very rigid and not flexible. On top of the fact they failed to inform us they were a 4 infant home and the husband was a permanent provider and not just a substitute like it is detailed in her handbook.

I cancelled the check because she noted she would not be refunding the first weeks pay. It is easier for me to cut her a check for 2 days as opposed to trying to recoup that money from her after the fact. Iím open to working with her but if she expects me to pay a full week then she can try her luck in small claims court without a signed contract to stand on.

I understand the hardship of losing an infant from a providers standpoint but it was a trial period not only for the child/parents but also the provider, and she failed miserably and at the end of the day the cancelled check will help my family find care in the interim as that is no easy feat either.
Then just pay her for the 2 days. Yes 2 days. It doesnt matter if it was a half day, your child was still part of her ratio regardless if they were their all day. Also, based on everything you said...this is exactly why a contract is good for both parties. You didnt sign anything so her handbook means nothing to you and doesnt hold up. So whatever she had in her handbook i guess she didnt have to abide by.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MomBoss View Post
Then just pay her for the 2 days. Yes 2 days. It doesnt matter if it was a half day, your child was still part of her ratio regardless if they were their all day. Also, based on everything you said...this is exactly why a contract is good for both parties. You didnt sign anything so her handbook means nothing to you and doesnt hold up. So whatever she had in her handbook i guess she didnt have to abide by.
Don’t forget the returned item fee that her bank likely charged her for your (the OP’s) check. From her point of view it’s no different than a bounced check....and it may be legally the same in your state as well. It is in mine. There are very specific reasons to LEGALLY cancel a check, and changing your mind about a purchase is not one of them.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:06 PM
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In many states now, itís not even legal to swaddle at all or past a certain age. Here, we canít swaddle past 1 month. And a Merlin suit wouldnít be allowed. Infants have to have complete freedom of movement. Licensing in every state has been making regulations even more stringent for infant care all because of the fear of SIDS.

Itís really hard for infants to adjust to daycare when parents do something at home to get their baby to sleep. But the daycare provider canít do it because of licensing regulations. It would be a good idea for all new parents with infants going to daycare to familiarize themselves with what is allowed and not allowed in each state.

This isnít completely the daycare provider's fault if this infant hasnít been put to sleep flat on his back, without swaddling, Merlin suit, or blanket. Some of that is on the parent, your job to make the transition easier by realizing what you can do to set your child up for a successful transition.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luipefiasco View Post
The provider also refused to use our Merlin Sleep Suit, even after we had a doctor confirm the baby still had a startle reflex and she would not swaddle. The provider was very rigid and not flexible.
Good for her!

Way too many providers will take a doctor's or parents word for things and when it comes to safe sleep the ONLY person that matters is the person in charge of the infant.

The doctor can confirm anything he/she wants but he/she isn't the one assuming liability. The fines for placing an infant to sleep in ANY way other than what licensing rules dictate can be upwards of $1000 per day.

Here is a safe sleep site. Please read it and understand what is and isn't safe. Magic Merlin suits and swaddles are rarely if ever recommended.

As a parent you can choose to use whatever device you wish but as a licensed provider, rules and regulations MUST be followed.

I commend this provider for being rigid and strict when it comes to safe sleep for infants.

This is what safe sleep looks like


http://www.sleepsmartzzz.com/sleep-safety.html
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hwichlaz View Post
Donít forget the returned item fee that her bank likely charged her for your (the OPís) check. From her point of view itís no different than a bounced check....and it may be legally the same in your state as well. It is in mine. There are very specific reasons to LEGALLY cancel a check, and changing your mind about a purchase is not one of them.
This. Just be aware op that this can go very very south for you. You brought your child to her for one and a half days. Then you did a stop pay.

Iíve never known a bank that would stop pay for anything other then for a lost or stolen check. If you lied (to get the check canceled) on that stop pay form the bank no doubt had you sign, and she sues, you are not only looking at paying her courts fees, lawyer fees, the amount of the check, plus any fees she got hit with at her bank, but fraud charges as well if your bank finds out (because they will, and they do not take these kinds of things lightly). 👍👍

All she has to do is bring the stop pay check from her bank to a lawyer with her daily attendance log of your child coming to her daycare and she has a great case, without a contract, and especially if she has any texts or emails regarding any of this from you are your wife.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:55 AM
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All she has to do is bring the stop pay check from her bank to a lawyer with her daily attendance log of your child coming to her daycare and she has a great case, without a contract, and especially if she has any texts or emails regarding any of this from you are your wife.
A contract just outlines and makes the agreement clear. The check for a full weeks care shows intent.

I've seen ALOT of court cases get decided based on intent verses what actually happened.

Yes! there's always the conversation that took place between the provider/parent via e-mail and/or text messages too and perhaps this thread as well.
MANY providers use this site and have come across parents from their programs that are posting.

It's too bad the parent and the provider in this situation weren't able to sit down and have a conversation about this so that both parties could move forward satisfied.

Open, honest communication goes a long way in regards to solving problems. A lot farther than a cancelled check.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:15 AM
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A contract just outlines and makes the agreement clear. The check for a full weeks care shows intent.

I've seen ALOT of court cases get decided based on intent verses what actually happened.

Yes! there's always the conversation that took place between the provider/parent via e-mail and/or text messages too and perhaps this thread as well.
MANY providers use this site and have come across parents from their programs that are posting.

It's too bad the parent and the provider in this situation weren't able to sit down and have a conversation about this so that both parties could move forward satisfied.

Open, honest communication goes a long way in regards to solving problems. A lot farther than a cancelled check.

The provider may of been willing to work something out. It sounds like the poster didn't like being told "no" and canceled the check. Most likely didn't even give his provider a chance. I do not know why some people do not know how to be an adult. Canceling a check is a childish move.
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