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Old 01-29-2010, 07:39 AM
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My4SunshineGirlsNY My4SunshineGirlsNY is offline
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Default Chalk Me Up to the "Let Go" Club

Well I did it! I had to let my 4 year old daycare boy go. I have had this boy since November and he has had behavior issues since the first day of care. He hits, yells, won't listen most of the time, and screams in anger a lot. Even if a daycare child would stand next to him doing nothing he would get mad and give this loud angry roar at them ALL the time. He has been mean to my 20 month daycare boy all along...hits him, pulled his hair, ran into him with a plastic bin for no reason, and is always "roaring" at him in his face and won't share.

I sent the mom an Email on Wed. stating he was having a really rough behavior day and if things didn't improve I would have to let the boy go. She never responded...both parents came that night to pick him up and all she asked me is if it was all day...I said it was on and off through the morning/early afternoon (then he goes to afternoon preschool).....she never discussed his behavior...no I'm sorry....or any sympathy what he puts the other daycare kids through.

I have set up a sticker chart/reward system for this boy and have tried my hardest with him. He will play really good for a bit and without warning he shows horrible anger at the other kids, sometimes for no reason at all. Nobody can talk to him much because anything they say he gets mad at, and what they say is nice things..he just has huge anger issues.

So yesterday was not a good behavior day either, he had "roared" in my daughters face a handful of times and also the 20 month old daycare boy if they even got remotely close to him....I just couldn't take it anymore, the other kids are so stressed out because of his anger. I had to give him time out for his anger and that made it worse, he SCREAMED and shouted like the excorsist (sp?).

So I text the mom and dad and said I'm very sorry but today was not going well either and I would give 2 weeks. She text back and said since it's a safety issue we can stop today.

My contract states I require a 2 week notice or if they have to pull out immedietly I need 2 weeks pay. I have offered 2 weeks to them but because he does hit/pinch other daycare kids and that is a safety issue to the other kids, am I in the wrong for offering 2 more weeks? If I should not offer 2 more weeks because of safety, do I have grounds for 2 more weeks pay? Just wondering how you all would work it...it IS in my contract for 2 weeks notice or pay, but if I keep him for 2 weeks knowing he is hurting the other kids, that would be wrong wouldn't it (although he has been doing these things since I took him in Nov.).
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:47 AM
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I guess it depends on your contract wording. Mine requires notice or pay in lieu of notice. However, I do have a clause allowing for immediate termination for certain circumstances involving safety and well being of the daycare or violation of policies and contracts. I do not have specific wording within that clause still requiring the two weeks pay. You could ask for the two weeks pay in lieu of notice, but if they refuse you certainly can't enforce it if it is not specifically stated in contract. My families are all pay in advance except for DSS cases. This situation makes me think I might need to review and amend that area of my contract as well. My thought is that sometimes its worth the financial hit just to have them GONE.
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:54 AM
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I think since you are asking them to leave that you can't have them pay because they leave early then.

I'm looking at asking my new family to leave tonight, unless we have a really good day. But I figure that they will not come back next week. I wouldn't go back to a sitter if I was let go from somewhere. Unless I just could not find anyone to take them.

I'm going to let this family know that I'll take them the next two weeks if needed, but I'll need paid on Monday for the week. I'm not taking the chance of her bringing them a few days and then not coming back to pay.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
I'm going to let this family know that I'll take them the next two weeks if needed, but I'll need paid on Monday for the week. I'm not taking the chance of her bringing them a few days and then not coming back to pay.
Very good business practice! That happens all too often!
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:07 AM
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Very good business practice! That happens all too often!
Yeah, I was going to tell her last night but she's not paid for the week so I didn't want to be out the money for this week. Because she wouldn't have came back today. She leaves with her mom, so I'd guess that her mom would just have kept the kids today. So I'll suck it up today and deal with the crying again just to get paid.

I mean I know kids cry but she cries over everything. Someone walks by her and she cries. She's been here 3 weeks now and so far it's not looking better. Mom just keeps saying that she's teething but after working with in the one year old room for 7 years at the center I was at we never had problems like this.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:14 AM
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That is generous of you to give them a two-week notice but, I would not have them pay for the two weeks since they did not want to bring him back after being asked to leave. Leave well enough alone. Now if it was their idea to leave then that would be a different story. I would never tell a parent to pay past the last day of attendance if I terminated care due to behavior issues.
Count yourself blessed that you are through with the "roaring" child and look for a new enrollment.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:18 AM
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It is only good business practice to have the parents pay in advance for the week to come so you don't have to worry about issues of non-payment after caring for them all week. I would encourage ALL providers to require payment in advance.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:27 AM
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I have written in my contract-every family must give me a 2 week notice if you are leaving my daycare and I will do the same for behavorial issues. Full payment is due to me on the day you give the notice. Otherwise late fees per day will be implemented.
I have given notice to the parents on a colicky baby, ones that have never been away from mom before, and behavorial issues, I told them I would give them up to two weeks to find someone else, but within those 2 weeks, they had found someone else to watch them. It's very sad to do at times, but it is for the best for everyone. I know a couple of my families that I discontinued care for are still bouncing daycares, one of them happen to be a friend of mine!!!
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:06 AM
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~ There is a two week termination period for this contract and advance written notice is required. Payment for the two week period is due whether or not the child is brought to the provider for care. Your two week deposit is normally used to cover this time period. If you fail to give notice you are still required to pay until you give notice even if child is not attending.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:00 AM
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Well I'm just going to wash it off and pray they come get the rest of his things and pay me for this week that I watched him

I sent her a quick Email letting her know I'm not going to leave her without care and my 2 weeks still stand as I would expect the same from my clients (a 2 week notice). Then I asked her for feedback since they were both quiet when I was explaining the issues.

She Emailed back and said she didn't want him here if he was a threat to the other kids...and if it was ok for my daughter (my 4 year old) to hit him for yelling. And that why keep him here if it isn't working for me or him and went on to say he's better off at home with his dad (guess he's quitting his job???, don't know).

So I guess somehow they feel I think it's ok for my daughter to hit...hmmm. I was telling the dad at pick up last night that his son would get in my daughter's face and roar at her really loud in anger. Well when he does that right in her face, how do you want her to react when he does this ALL the time??? NO, it's not ok to hit BUT it's not ok to ROAR in someone's face 1" from their nose.

Then she stated she didn't have any feedback to give me as her son doesn't do this at pre-school or on playdates.....LIE right there...one day she dropped him off on Monday morning and told me he had a rough weekend and was playing mean with 2 other kids.

He has given his mom and dad a real tough time, I see it at pick up (he has kicked his mom, yelled, roared, ect.)....and in Nov. she told me his dad is very verbal with yelling at the boy and spanks him very hard. So she thinks he's better off at home with dad who spanks the crap out of him and screams at him?? The boy obviously has behavior issues and I do believe there is issues between the mom and dad as well...I'm not even getting involved.

Just washing my hands of this and moving on!! One more opening available at my daycare.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY View Post
Well I'm just going to wash it off and pray they come get the rest of his things and pay me for this week that I watched him

I sent her a quick Email letting her know I'm not going to leave her without care and my 2 weeks still stand as I would expect the same from my clients (a 2 week notice). Then I asked her for feedback since they were both quiet when I was explaining the issues.

She Emailed back and said she didn't want him here if he was a threat to the other kids...and if it was ok for my daughter (my 4 year old) to hit him for yelling. And that why keep him here if it isn't working for me or him and went on to say he's better off at home with his dad (guess he's quitting his job???, don't know).

So I guess somehow they feel I think it's ok for my daughter to hit...hmmm. I was telling the dad at pick up last night that his son would get in my daughter's face and roar at her really loud in anger. Well when he does that right in her face, how do you want her to react when he does this ALL the time??? NO, it's not ok to hit BUT it's not ok to ROAR in someone's face 1" from their nose.

Then she stated she didn't have any feedback to give me as her son doesn't do this at pre-school or on playdates.....LIE right there...one day she dropped him off on Monday morning and told me he had a rough weekend and was playing mean with 2 other kids.

He has given his mom and dad a real tough time, I see it at pick up (he has kicked his mom, yelled, roared, ect.)....and in Nov. she told me his dad is very verbal with yelling at the boy and spanks him very hard. So she thinks he's better off at home with dad who spanks the crap out of him and screams at him?? The boy obviously has behavior issues and I do believe there is issues between the mom and dad as well...I'm not even getting involved.

Just washing my hands of this and moving on!! One more opening available at my daycare.
If she doesn't pay you, just let her know about your late fees and that you will go to small claims in 2 weeks if not payment is made.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:09 AM
laundryduchess@yahoo.com laundryduchess@yahoo.com is offline
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Good for you Sunshine! you will be alot less stressed and THAT is the key point here.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:21 AM
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Parents get upset and angry when their kids are let go for behavioral issues, because, lets face it- often the problems are rooted in poor parenting- whether it be inconsistent discipline, innappropriate role modeling of the parents etc. It's not like the parents are really unaware of the problem, and I'm sure deep down they feel guilty and like they have failed as parents. Rather than having to acknowledge that, they go on the offensive- blaming the daycare, daycare's children or other children for teaching the bad behavior. Once I had a parent state that if I was unable to "deal with it" then I obviously wasn't in the right line of work. Anything to mitigate responsibility, rather than find the root of the problem and work together to deal with it, in hopes of improving outcomes for the child. As long as they are leaving anyway, I would probably give them the number for the local school districts early childhood evaluations/intervention, and let them know that while you are not willing to continue, you want the best outcome for their child and evaluation of his anger and behavioral issues and lack of communication or emotional control by a child psychologist may help, at least to rule out some organic/brain causation, unless they want to wait for school when he will be labeled EBD etc. Generally when I have had children with significant developmental delays or behavioral issues, I refer them immediately and ask permission for the child to be evaluated by, in our area, Paul Bunyan Educational Coop, which provides evaluation and support services through the school district for children ages 2-5. If they agree to the evaluation, I agree to allow Paul Bunyan Ed to also evaluate the child in my home, and allow speech specialists and other services to be scheduled during daycare. Ultimately the families know I'm just doing my job and putting the child's needs first. If they refuse, then I terminate care since they are unwilling to work with me to improve the situation.
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