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  #1  
Old 06-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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Default About To Term For Biting And Pinching-Any Last Ditch Suggestions?

I have only termed 2 kids so far, wonderful kids, wonderful famlies, but circumstances made it necessary, and we all parted company as friends. I have a new boy who has been here for about 6 weeks. He has targeted one of the kids, biting, pinching, and hair pulling.

Boy is 18 months old, 6 weeks older than the targeted boy. However, the younger child has some delays and acts much younger. He simply does not have the tools to defend himself. Older boy tried being mean to an older DCG, and she put him in his place in a hurry. But the baby doesn't have the ability.

I've had this kid shadow me, but whenever we were within reach of Little One, he would reach out and pinch him or pull his hair. One day I put Older in a play yard while I did something for someone. Little one wandered by, he reached out and pulled the baby into reach and was about to bite before I dive across the room and intervened. I slowed him down for a few days by giving him back his paci, but now he just removes the paci, bites and puts it back.

Last week, I gave up having him shadow me and instead, I just hovered over the Little One. Even then, he managed to get close enough to try to bite. I shoved my finger in his mouth and stopped the bite from reaching Little One's skin, but I had a sore finger the rest of the day.

Little One's mom is calm "Kids will bite", but she's going to get enough. I already have. I can put up with lots and lots of behavior, but I will not tolerate a bully. That's what this has become. It is no longer a toddler experimenting. If it was, he would still be biting the older kid. He knows that Little One can't save himself or retaliate. He's left an ugly bruise once, but so far, no broken skin. But, it's just a matter of time.

I know many of you say "third strike you're out", and I'm at that point. I really, really can't afford to lose this money, so I thought I'd ask if there is something I'm missing or something else I might try before I sink myself into poverty.

Mom won't be surprised. I've had several firm, lengthy talks with her and she feels awful. I know he has bitten his younger cousin more than once.

Thanks for any insight
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2013, 01:00 PM
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Is there anyway you can hire or get a volunteer to shadow one on one for this child until he learns not to do this?

I DO think it is partially developmental but I also understand how you can't let one child's difficulty in figuring it out effect the other kids, especially when it has to do with safety.

Maybe DCB can wear a hockey helmet/gloves for a while.... I am JUST KIDDING although it would probably work.

If you have really exhausted all your resources, it just might be time to either terminate him or maybe have mom come retrieve him every single time he tries to bite or pinch anyone. After a while SHE will get tired of having to come pick up and start really pushing him to be nice to others.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:01 PM
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If he doesn't bother any other children, what about having the little one shadow you? Not as a punishment but more of a safety thing so he is within reach at all times, allowing you to protect the little one. I get needing the money and I have put up with a lot because of this reason, but I would most likely term.it is causing you anxiety and eventually your little victim's parents are going to have enough and possibly leave. Wouldn't be worth losing 2 spots (the victim and the biter) in my opinion.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:03 PM
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Have you written up a behavior intervention plan with a list of what WILL happen if the behavior continues x amount of times?

Mine lists what will happen if the behaviors present themselves 3 more times and that is a suspension.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:05 PM
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Call me crazy, old school, cruel or whatever but I'd tell mom to take him home and if he bit her or anyone else again she should bite him the heck back.

And hard.

Maybe invite the cousins over and set him up to knock out a few eye for an eye lessons asap.


I've never seen a biter that finally got a taste of his own medicine bite much beyond that.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:11 PM
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Default biting

There should be some sort of human muzzle! haha.I have his twin.......teething and not enough language are ours whys here.Now he's into hitting everyone me included.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
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Blackcat, I'm just a listed home with 3 kids. I couldn't afford to hire anyone.

Mom works 45 miles away. I hate to punish her-she's a nice kid and she's really concerned about this. She would totally approve the hockey mask idea if it would keep him in my program.

She is worried that he is being such a bully.
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2013, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slorey View Post
If he doesn't bother any other children, what about having the little one shadow you? Not as a punishment but more of a safety thing so he is within reach at all times, allowing you to protect the little one. I get needing the money and I have put up with a lot because of this reason, but I would most likely term.it is causing you anxiety and eventually your little victim's parents are going to have enough and possibly leave. Wouldn't be worth losing 2 spots (the victim and the biter) in my opinion.
Slorey, I have been shadowing the victim baby all week, and he still managed a bite. Since I was right there, I stopped him getting the baby, but he got me instead.

If the victim's parents get enough, I'll lose 2 kids, victim and his sibling. That's one reason I think I need to term.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist View Post
Have you written up a behavior intervention plan with a list of what WILL happen if the behavior continues x amount of times?

Mine lists what will happen if the behaviors present themselves 3 more times and that is a suspension.
I haven't done that. I have a really informal set up, more like grandma's house than a day care setting. I do have it in my handbook that I won't tolerate bullying behavior and can term immediately for it-or words to that effect. I've talked to mom every single day, so she knows the situation. I would worry less if Victim would hit him or shove him down or even bite him back. But, he isn't developmentally capable of that, even though he is the same size and age.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:47 PM
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Willow, mom says they have done that and told me to do it too. I explained that I can't do that. It didn't work anyway.

His cousin is an infant and can't bite back.

When he bit my older dcg, she hit him, and I had to remind her that we don't hit babies. By the second or third time, I just quit seeing her hitting him. He doesn't bother her now.

But, the current victim isn't capable of defending himself in any way.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2013, 02:46 PM
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I'm probably in the minority here but I just can't bear hearing an 18 month old labeled a bully for biting when it is not unheard of at that age. My grandson bit and it was a long time shadowing him but he was my grandson and I wasn't going to term. He's on 'scholarship' too.

I just had to shadow it seems like forever but finally he stopped. The other thing I learned from having a biter or two in the past is the bitee should have long sleeves and long pants on to minimize the pain.

The mom of the child he bit was very understanding. The reason was because I had the sibling of the biten child years ago. She reminded me that her son was the biter and now her daughter was the bitee.

If you just can't see shadowing him for as long as it takes, then for your own peace of mind you'd have to term.

It might also work to have a teething ring necklace and tell him to bite that.

Laurel
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:32 PM
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Laurel, you're right. I probably should have said more along the lines of bullying type behavior. His mom is the one who labeled him a bully. I know the biting is going to happen at this age, and if I had regular kids that could understand moving out of his way or hitting back or ignoring him, I'd try to hang on. But it isn't the case. He is determined to hurt this baby. I'm not even sure that yanking his hair is developmentally appropriate. At least it's not something I've ever encountered.

We had just finished weaning him from using a paci all day, but out of desperation, I gave it back. He takes it out to bite. The only benefit to the paci is that the act of removing it sort of warns me to move fast.

I've been shadowing for the last 6 weeks with no luck
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
I'm probably in the minority here but I just can't bear hearing an 18 month old labeled a bully for biting when it is not unheard of at that age.
ITA. At 18 mos, biting is developmentally appropriate, even though it's not socially acceptable. To him it's no different than pushing or hitting, except that it probably gets him more attention than pushing or hitting does.

The first thing to do is take a step back and figure out why he's biting - what's he getting out of it? Is he teething? Does he like all the commotion he creates - little one crying, you jumping into the situation, etc? Maybe he doesn't know how to relate to the other children? Is he frustrated because he doesn't have the words he needs to express himself? Is he getting lots of attention from you and Mom because of the biting?

Once you figure out what he's getting out of the behavior you can take steps to change it. If it's attention I'd be sure to give him LOTS of attention when he's being nice - like every 5 min say "Wow, you're being so gentle with Little One!" Show him how to gently pat his friends' backs then say "I like how nicely you're patting Little One - you're such a good friend." If he needs words, try teaching him some sign language: Stop, Please and More are good ones to start with.

In the meantime, ITA that you need to shadow him and/or Little One constantly, until the behavior changes. I've BTDT and know it's not easy, but with just 3 children it's not impossible.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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I'm not sure why he's biting. Mom thinks he enjoys it-he smiles. He doesn't get much attention from me-that's a lesson I learned long ago. We aren't sure if he's teething-he has most of his teeth (oh how I wish he just had 3 teeth like Little One!) He doesn't do it in anger-we will all be rocking along in a happy moment and he just leans over and bites. Once we were sitting in the floor listening to story time and he bit-thank goodness it was one of our own kids and not a stranger! We skipped story time this week.

I've tried the praise, we do signs, etc.

Little one is starting early intervention. I have a parade of people coming through my house these days for therapy for him. It's only going to make shadowing Biter harder when I'm needed by Little One's therapists.

I've waited out biting before, and I know it gets better. I've also seen it not get better. My step-son was a serial biter/fighter/kids ran when they saw him coming kind of kid and nothing stopped him. Forty years later, he is one of the kindest, most gentle men I know, so I know it happens. I just don't have 40 years to wait.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:44 PM
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I think you should term. As you said in another post...you will lose more clients otherwise. Just because Jaws is only going after one particular child now...doesn't mean he won't feast on another one.

Years ago we had a child at my former center, actually around 15 months I believe that was a HUGE biter. And he was fast! He could be laughing and playing one second and the next he would be biting. Oh it was horrible. He never had favorites. If you were there he would get you.

One day it was cleanup time and the caregiver asked for the book he was holding. He gave it to her and then got SO mad that he got up, ran to a wooden chair in the room and bit so hard it cracked the wood. All I remember thinking was...what would have happened if that was skin?!?!?

The owner/director was constantly everyday talking to these parents who took the approach..."well there is nothing we can do, he doesn't do it at home", "nothing we can do, since he doesn't talk, "nothing we can do because you are the one in charge". So the owner/director did nothing. Just "talked" to the parents. It got to the point when the mother would come in and say "ok who did D bite today?"

It finally took several parents saying...either he goes or we will go. So when the owner/director finally realized that she could be losing 8 plus clients instead of 1...she finally termed him.

I do hope the best for you. Let us know your decision!
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:42 PM
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Maybe your biter wasn't biting at home. My grandson wasn't either because there were only adults there. He was biting out of frustration when someone tried to take his toy at my house. Adults never tried to take his toy at home.

Just wondering what the mom could have done about him if he wasn't doing it at home.

Just sayin......

Laurel
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunchimes View Post
Laurel, you're right. I probably should have said more along the lines of bullying type behavior. His mom is the one who labeled him a bully. I know the biting is going to happen at this age, and if I had regular kids that could understand moving out of his way or hitting back or ignoring him, I'd try to hang on. But it isn't the case. He is determined to hurt this baby. I'm not even sure that yanking his hair is developmentally appropriate. At least it's not something I've ever encountered.

We had just finished weaning him from using a paci all day, but out of desperation, I gave it back. He takes it out to bite. The only benefit to the paci is that the act of removing it sort of warns me to move fast.

I've been shadowing for the last 6 weeks with no luck
Oh okay, that word for an 18 month old just bothered me.

Laurel
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:41 PM
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He does bite at home-he bites his 8 month old cousin. They bite him back but they said it hasn't stopped him.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:23 PM
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Then they have not bitten him hard enough!!


I'm sorry but an 18mo old CAN be a bully. I do believe they will and CAN hurt another child just because they can!! I don't think there is always a reason!

My 20mo old DCB does this! He will take any opportunity he can to hurt my 3year old son. Always when my little guy is playing on the floor, when he looks smaller to DCB. He has moved on from one or two hits to wailing on my son. My son is 3 yeas old, he's twice as big as dcb. They were playing separate in different parts of the room. DCB at the kitchen, my son on the floor with cars. He walked over to my son and just started wailing on him. To me this is completely not normal! It is obvious DCB needs a rude awakening, I'm thinking of not intervening so quick next time to see if my son lets him know in his way that that is not ok.

I can understand it being developmental IF they do it here or there but not every day consistently. To me that is not normal. Kimberly on here had to term an aggressive little guy as well. I feel like a lot of people are quick to say it's "developmental". I'm sorry, but I definitely did not experience anything at this magnitude with any of my kids. Since you only have three I would restrict him to a superyard or follow him around.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
I'm probably in the minority here but I just can't bear hearing an 18 month old labeled a bully for biting when it is not unheard of at that age. My grandson bit and it was a long time shadowing him but he was my grandson and I wasn't going to term. He's on 'scholarship' too.

I just had to shadow it seems like forever but finally he stopped. The other thing I learned from having a biter or two in the past is the bitee should have long sleeves and long pants on to minimize the pain.

The mom of the child he bit was very understanding. The reason was because I had the sibling of the biten child years ago. She reminded me that her son was the biter and now her daughter was the bitee.

If you just can't see shadowing him for as long as it takes, then for your own peace of mind you'd have to term.

It might also work to have a teething ring necklace and tell him to bite that.

Laurel
To me this seems crazy, if you have to cover another child to protect them from someone else.....how is this normal??
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:32 PM
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Then they have not bitten him hard enough!!


I'm sorry but an 18mo old CAN be a bully. I do believe they will and CAN hurt another child just because they can!! I don't think there is always a reason!

My 20mo old DCB does this! He will take any opportunity he can to hurt my 3year old son. Always when my little guy is playing on the floor, when he looks smaller to DCB. He has moved on from one or two hits to wailing on my son. My son is 3 yeas old, he's twice as big as dcb. They were playing separate in different parts of the room. DCB at the kitchen, my son on the floor with cars. He walked over to my son and just started wailing on him. To me this is completely not normal! It is obvious DCB needs a rude awakening, I'm thinking of not intervening so quick next time to see if my son lets him know in his way that that is not ok.

I can understand it being developmental IF they do it here or there but not every day consistently. To me that is not normal. Kimberly on here had to term an aggressive little guy as well. I feel like a lot of people are quick to say it's "developmental". I'm sorry, but I definitely did not experience anything at this magnitude with any of my kids. Since you only have three I would restrict him to a superyard or follow him around.
I haven't had any luck with super yards because if biter goes there then the other ones are little and they go up to the super yard to see what is in there and the biter nabs them there. I didn't try a super yard per se but a gate. They were each on their own side of the gate but as long as biter can reach the other child and she bugs him, he would bite her. Luckily he doesn't bite anymore. Whew....

Laurel
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:37 PM
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To me this seems crazy, if you have to cover another child to protect them from someone else.....how is this normal??
The point isn't to let the biter bite at will JUST because the child is covered. That WOULD be crazy I agree. The point is that as hard as you try you can't be 100% sure that the poor child won't get bitten so you at least want to attempt to have them protected as much as possible in the event that it does happen.

The mom of the bitee was very happy when I suggested it.

Laurel
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:38 PM
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I haven't had any luck with super yards because if biter goes there then the other ones are little and they go up to the super yard to see what is in there and the biter nabs them there. I didn't try a super yard per se but a gate. They were each on their own side of the gate but as long as biter can reach the other child and she bugs him, he would bite her. Luckily he doesn't bite anymore. Whew....

Laurel
I understand this! I put up 2 gates and spaced them apart so he can not push the infants down from standing up at their gate.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:43 PM
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I understand this! I put up 2 gates and spaced them apart so he can not push the infants down from standing up at their gate.
I don't have anywhere to hook two gates. I have two openings out of the room and they both have a gate. Other than that, it is one big room.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture, would you? I'd like to have an area inside the room that is separate but could never figure out how to do it.

Thanks, Laurel
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:52 PM
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He does bite at home-he bites his 8 month old cousin. They bite him back but they said it hasn't stopped him.
I've had that experience as well. If someone else bites a biter at least mine was too young to understand the connection of
'if I hurt you then you hurt me back." You could see in his face that he didn't get it. He just seemed to wonder why someone was being mean to HIM for no apparent reason.

My grandson would even bite himself if no one else was around when he was frustrated. I kid you not! I've never seen THAT before. It didn't phase him that he bit himself. It hurt, he cried but then would do it again later....

Biting back is usually useless unless they are older. I've heard of 3 year olds that bite. Not at my house but just saying.... By then they KNOW and I think it is a totally different situation.

Laurel
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:57 PM
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Call me crazy, old school, cruel or whatever but I'd tell mom to take him home and if he bit her or anyone else again she should bite him the heck back.

And hard.

Maybe invite the cousins over and set him up to knock out a few eye for an eye lessons asap.


I've never seen a biter that finally got a taste of his own medicine bite much beyond that.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:07 PM
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I don't have anywhere to hook two gates. I have two openings out of the room and they both have a gate. Other than that, it is one big room.

You wouldn't happen to have a picture, would you? I'd like to have an area inside the room that is separate but could never figure out how to do it.

Thanks, Laurel
You can make it smaller or wider
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:20 PM
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You can make it smaller or wider
Thanks but I don't get the picture.

Is the part with the numbers on it a wall or ??? The gates only attach on one side so I can't tell how they are standing up and can't someone walk around them?

I don't know how to post pics but I did find a link. I had something like this in mind a while back but didn't think to screw the shelves together and don't know how she anchored them to the floor on one side like she says. I could hire someone to do this for me for pretty cheap I think. Just not sure I want to go to the trouble or expense when I am probably going to retire in a year or so though. It is just soooo cool looking to me though.

http://community.babycenter.com/post...care_play_room

It is about the 4th post down.

Laurel
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:34 PM
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Haha I had a hard time at first too! If you have a laptop turn it sideways to look at the picture correctly-it's sideways!
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:38 PM
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The gates are pressure mounted. The floor has a numbered rug. I'm not sure why it posted that way. I took it right.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:36 AM
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Haha I had a hard time at first too! If you have a laptop turn it sideways to look at the picture correctly-it's sideways!
Haha, yeah I see it now. It is an ariel view but sideways.

Laurel
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:38 AM
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The gates are pressure mounted. The floor has a numbered rug. I'm not sure why it posted that way. I took it right.
Oh okay, got it!

Is it in a hallway maybe cause the walls look close together?

Laurel
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:15 AM
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Oh okay, got it!

Is it in a hallway maybe cause the walls look close together?

Laurel
yes, it's a hallway.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LaLa1923 View Post
yes, it's a hallway.
Thanks, that gives me an idea for something else I could do. My room is one large room with no hall leading to it. I could convert an unused bedroom into my daycare room though if I wanted too. Interesting idea.

Thanks for the picture!

Laurel
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  #35  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:28 PM
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LaLa1923 LaLa1923 is offline
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Any update? What happened??
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:36 PM
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I guess I'm going to keep him. I called the 2 on my waiting list, and they aren't going to work out for a replacement.

My husband has taken up residence in the play room to be another pair of eyes this week. This wasn't a great idea. He has fallen for this little one and is coming up with all sorts of reasons for keeping him. I should have known-he is crazy about every kid I've ever had here. He's a tough old guy with a marshmallow heart.

I did talk to the "victim's" therapist today and she gave me some great ideas. I talked about them in the other biting thread posted today. So, I guess he's here unless it gets worse. He didn't bite anyone yesterday or today although there were a couple of bad pinches and some hair pulling.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:15 PM
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I'm not sure what others mean by shadowing, but this is what my shadowing looks like:

The biter is always with me, wherever I go the biter goes. And I mean everywhere. And when they are with me, they are sitting so close to me they are touching me. If I change diapers the biter sits by me when I change diapers. If I am in the kitchen the biter is sitting next to me in the kitchen. When I can sit on the play floor the biter sits right next to me on the play floor. It is a very boring existence for the biter. They cannot play where they want, when the want. If I am feeding a baby, the biter is in a booster at the table with an activity right next to me. I don't shadow them, they shadow me.

A stern NO BITING is the only interaction I'll give the biter about the biting.

I would also wear the bitee and have them with me as much as possible once the shadowing has gone on for a few successful days. The key has been to break the cycle and have lots and lots of successful hours in a day before the biter is allowed to be a few inches from me. Then a foot from me.

While kids certainly experiment with biting at 18 months, repeated targeting and biting on a regular basis is learned. They are getting some payoff, whether real or perceived. Create zero opportunities for biting until they have not bitten for several days.

Also, when I have a biter I usually strip down my program to bare bones for a few weeks so that I can have constant, close proximity, one-on-one attention on the biter.

Once I've established this plan of action for the biter, I'll give the parents a written notice of X number of weeks and if the biting hasn't subsided then term. Document all biting incidence or attempted unsuccessful incidents and give to the parents each evening.
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