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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Whats Your Policy For Closing, Days Off, Vacation Rate Etc..??
LaLa1923 03:57 PM 11-19-2012
To the providers whose parents don't pay when they close...
Why? Why don't you have the parents pay? Like on black friday for instance...

Why do you give parents "free" days?

What do you do about your vacation? Paid or not??

I was thinking about changing my rate to include vacation time and then they wouldn't pay when I'm closed. BUT my rates will be higher than other providers around here....

Right now my contract says I get 2 "half charge" weeks, 6 holidays, day after thanksgiving, and the day after christmas. I also get 7 sick/personal days, and I close at 4pm on holloween and dec 31st.
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Michael 06:20 PM 11-19-2012
Here are some threads: https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.p...acation+policy

https://www.daycare.com/forum/tags.php?tag=days+off
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Scout 06:37 PM 11-19-2012
I have just opened so I am giving each child 2 free weeks per year based on # of days they attend per week. holidays are paid only if the child is normally there on that day of the week. vacations are unpaid & when i close due to illness they also dont pay. they can use free days for holidays as well.
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LaLa1923 07:09 PM 11-19-2012
Originally Posted by aprilsfool77:
I have just opened so I am giving each child 2 free weeks per year based on # of days they attend per week. holidays are paid only if the child is normally there on that day of the week. vacations are unpaid & when i close due to illness they also dont pay. they can use free days for holidays as well.
But why?? I am just trying to get another prospective on the topic.....
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Country Kids 07:33 PM 11-19-2012
I don't charge for my days off (personal, sick) or vacation days.

I charge a daily rate but the parents pay when the child isn't here.

I figure when I'm sick or off the parents have to pay someone else to watch their child why pay double when only one person is working for the pay. If a store is closed for the day, they make no money. I don't pay them for the product that day but go somewhere else and pay them.

It also seems like a fight with most providers/parents when it comes right down to it. I know the parents sign up for it but it always seems like a fight all the time-no matter who the provider is.

I guess I'm taking the day off not my clients so why have them pay me for work I'm not doing.
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LaLa1923 07:38 PM 11-19-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I don't charge for my days off (personal, sick) or vacation days.

I charge a daily rate but the parents pay when the child isn't here.

I figure when I'm sick or off the parents have to pay someone else to watch their child why pay double when only one person is working for the pay. If a store is closed for the day, they make no money. I don't pay them for the product that day but go somewhere else and pay them.

It also seems like a fight with most providers/parents when it comes right down to it. I know the parents sign up for it but it always seems like a fight all the time-no matter who the provider is.

I guess I'm taking the day off not my clients so why have them pay me for work I'm not doing.
I understand this.. do your parents pay for a slot or hours??
Most people get these days at a regular job though...I'm not sure if I should change it or not...
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Country Kids 09:02 PM 11-19-2012
They pay for a slot
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Scout 04:58 AM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
But why?? I am just trying to get another prospective on the topic.....
I see a lot of providers have the parents pay whether or not the kids are there.when kids are sick and I figured 2 weeks free should stop them from having to do that, which should be a good selling point. The holidays are paid because most of my parents have paid holidays off & don't need to pay someone else & they probably get paid so why whouldnt I?. Vacations are unpaid because it is my choice to take time off & they,need to find other care so I wouldnt feel right charging them. So basically thay get 1 mo free this year, which may change next year.
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Countrygal 05:12 AM 11-20-2012
Right now my policy is three pd holidays IF they fall on a weekday, and a weeks paid vacation. I added this because I found most providers around here did this and it is almost impossible for me to take a week's vacation with no pay. Working with children 12 hours a day, I feel I need that week to spend with my family or go somewhere on a trip. I feel it refreshes me and, as a result, I do a better job with THEIR children.

I am adding free days for parents this year. I did not change that when I changed my policies about 3 months ago, but I think I will. I just feel that it's a nice thing to do. I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to work it yet, tho.
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Scout 05:19 AM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
But why?? I am just trying to get another prospective on the topic.....
I see a lot of providers have the parents pay whether or not the kids are there.when kids are sick and I figured 2 weeks free should stop them from having to do that, which should be a good selling point. The holidays are paid because most of my parents have paid holidays off & don't need to pay someone else & they probably get paid so why whouldnt I?. Vacations are unpaid because it is my choice to take time off & they,need to find other care so I wouldnt feel right charging them. So basically thay get 1 mo free this year, which may change next year.
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littlemissmuffet 11:00 AM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I don't charge for my days off (personal, sick) or vacation days.

I charge a daily rate but the parents pay when the child isn't here.

I figure when I'm sick or off the parents have to pay someone else to watch their child why pay double when only one person is working for the pay. If a store is closed for the day, they make no money. I don't pay them for the product that day but go somewhere else and pay them.

It also seems like a fight with most providers/parents when it comes right down to it. I know the parents sign up for it but it always seems like a fight all the time-no matter who the provider is.

I guess I'm taking the day off not my clients so why have them pay me for work I'm not doing.
I beg to differ. I have never once in all the years I have done home daycare had a parent complain or question paying for my sick time, vacation time or holidays. As a matter of fact, I once went over my 5 paid sick/emergency days and tried to reimburse the parents for the extra day and they all told me to keep it
I make it so very clear in my interviews and handbook that when it comes to sick time, vacation or holidays parents simply pay and carry on (it might help that I am paid monthly as opposed to weekly or biweekly, however) - parents know there is zero room for negotiation when it comes to my policies or payments!
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Texasjeepgirl 11:38 AM 11-20-2012
I am a FIRM BELIEVER in PROFESSIONALISM in my DAYCARE.

Frankly.. I feel that those caregivers that DO NOT VALUE THEMSELVES...are the providers that do not charge their clients for sick days... personal days... and vacation time... as well as NATIONAL HOLIDAYS...

Home CHILD CARE is a brutal business if you don't develop some professional policies... conduct your business as though you are the C E O of a major corporation.
When you don't charge for sick days... vacation days...
you are basically setting yourself to be a 'glorified' babysitter....

If you love your child care business... if you love the fact that you are your OWN BOSS...then be a good boss to your NUMBER 1 employee...
YOU...
Chief bottle washer... diaper changer... window washer... boo boo fixer...
YOU DESERVE VACATION... PAID VACATION..YOU DESERVE SICK DAYS AND PERSONAL DAYS.

I've said it before.. and I will continue to say it..

Put some thought and research into your PARENT HANDBOOK...
When you have a potential client... provide them with your parent handbook.. and MAKE SURE they read and agree to it...
If you have a client that doesn't want to pay for your sick days.. personal days... and vacation time.. then you don't need to have them as a client.
I agree with the post immediately before mine...
I don't have ANYONE COMPLAIN about my fees.. my closing dates... vacation... etc..
Why..?
Because they agree to it all when they choose me as their caregiver...
I make sure that my clients CLEARY understand and agree to all of my policies.. or I suggest they seek other care.

5 years ago I didn't charge for vacation time.
I needed a hysterectomy. My school teacher sister 'lead me to believe' that she would come run my daycare for me so that I could have the surgery.
(it was summer time.. she was out of school).
She arrived at my home on Monday evening... I had surgery Tuesday.. while she and my teenage daughters ran daycare. I returned home from hospital on Thursday.. and that evening her young son began to throw up...
I sent her home... and the following day.. Friday.. I ran my daycare.. with the assistance of my daughters and husband...
The daycare NEVER CLOSED..
Why.. ???
Because I didn't charge my clients for vacation time.. and I could not afford to close down and loose the income.
My daughters helped me for 2 weeks.. lifting the babies on to the changing table so that I could change them.. cooking and serving meals.. and basic supervision assistance... but I was on my feet every day... from 3 days after surgery...
IF I had paid vacation time back then.. I could have closed.. atleast 1 week...without suffering an income loss...

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Willow 11:56 AM 11-20-2012
Texasjeepgirl - I cannot tell you how disgusted and beyond offended I am by many of your statements.

Just because I operate my personal business differently than you do doesn't mean I don't value myself or am unprofessional. I can't put to words how angry those sentiments make me........

You don't know me. You have no idea who I am as a person, the way I was raised, what I've experienced in my life to come to the conclusions I have......

To imply I am unprofessional, selling myself short, not taking care of myself or my family and haven't researched or put thought into my parent handbook simply because I have a different set of ethics is shocking.....just..........UGH.


I don't care what others do or if they believe otherwise. That is NOT. MY. BUSINESS. Nor is my business any of yours. I could spout all I wanted to about what I think of your policies but you know what? I won't. Why? Because it's rude and I believe we as providers should be supporting each other above all else.

Frankly, I believe you should keep your opinions to yourself if you are that hell bent on putting other providers down simply because they hold different beliefs than you do.


I LOVE my business.
I AM a professional.
I TAKE CARE of my family.
I TREAT MYSELF well.

None of that has anything to do with charging people for off days or not.
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Texasjeepgirl 12:07 PM 11-20-2012
well. wow..

I apologize for stepping so solid down on not just a few.. but ALL of your toes..

I certainly didn't mean to OFFEND..
I do the same as all the other care givers on this site..
I throw my opinion out there...
As I said..
MY OPINION..

I just hate to see caregivers.. as you stated.. sell themselves short...

Allot of the caregivers on this site are looking for someone to guide them.. encourage them to improve their child care business.. and that is what I try to do.. but if I offended you that much with my bold opinion.. I apologize.
It is never my intent to PUT OFF other caregivers.. but rather to help them have more confidence ....

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Willow 12:10 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
To the providers whose parents don't pay when they close...
Why? Why don't you have the parents pay? Like on black friday for instance...

Why do you give parents "free" days?

What do you do about your vacation? Paid or not??
I don't charge for any of my days off, holiday or not.

Why? Because my parents raised me to believe you get paid for the work you DO.

To me that's not giving parents free days. Often times parents need to find alternate care for my days off if they are still scheduled to work, so they should have to pay two providers that day if that's the case simply because I'm not available?I don't believe so. And if they have the day off I'm still doing nothing for their family and they may or may not be getting paid themselves....but I should still feel good about pulling money out of their pockets regardless? I'm sorry, but I just don't.

There are many professions, particularly for those who are self employed, that do not get paid for holidays or time off. In my heart and mind (and not meaning to offend anyone who has come to different conclusions) it is not some sort of inherent right to require payment for services not provided...in any profession.

I believe the cost of living for the masses would greatly decrease if everyone could get on board with that belief.

That said, if you chose to require it, that is entirely your business. You need to decide FOR YOU what you feel is fair. At the end of the day you need to be able to close shop and feel like what you're doing is benefiting is you and your family, you need to feel good about the way you run your daycare.

That gut feeling, is the only one that should matter.
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lovemykidstoo 12:18 PM 11-20-2012
My parents pay if their child comes or not unless and only unless I take the day off due to my illness, my own children's illness or my vacation. They pay for all major holidays meaning Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiing, Christmas Day and New Years Day.

I do not charge like I said if I take a vacation. Hats off to those of you that do, but I just don't get how people handle that. How can they afford to pay twice? I know that alot say that the parents plan to take their vacation at the same time so they don't have to pay double, but what if they can't. I've always wondered that. I seriously don't think that any of my people would go for it or be able to afford to pay say $280 for my full time which is 4 days because I'm not open on Fridays.
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Willow 12:20 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by Texasjeepgirl:
well. wow..


I do the same as all the other care givers on this site..

All the other care givers on this site?


I am not the only one on this site who chooses to run their business differently than you do. Since joining I've networked with several providers here who feel the same way I do but would never dream of speaking up for fear of the exact bullying you just displayed. This insinuation that one is uneducated, inexperienced, intimidated or some other insulting label and that causes providers across the world to be held back.....it's so hurtful, unnecessary and IMHO does a great disservice to our profession in general.

It's usually not worth getting into outside of chatter within pm's but when someone goes so far as to insult my integrity and professionalism in broad sweeping generalizations just because we believe differently.....I draw the line there.
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Texasjeepgirl 12:37 PM 11-20-2012
I have already apologized ONCE for offending you.
As I said.. it is NEVER my intent to offend or put off any provider.
If I did that with my original post...
I am sorry.
I am in NO WAY attempting to bully anyone.
Everyone on this forum comes here to find various opinions about how to handle various issues with their child care business..
Some people are new.. some have been in this business for 15, 20, 30 years...
Some of us are in large cities... some small towns or rural areas..
We all have different types of competition... with our child care businesses..
Some caregivers start out doing things a certain way.. for one reason or another...
then gradually learn and adapt different policies as they gain experience and knowledge.

I do not know everything.... I learn new things from many of the providers here... and am often grealy impressed by the things I read..
If I was too bold.. or well.. I struggle for proper terms to describe...
then.. I am sorry it rubbed you raw...
I am a busy caregiver...
I sit down at this computer during naptime..
I read.. sometimes I post.. sometimes I don't ..
I never mean for anyone to be annoyed by what I have posted...
You either AGREE WITH IT.. OR YOU DON'T...It either HELPS YOU.. or... it doesn't...
It's always JUST MY OPINION..
I MAKE SURE I ALWAYS PROOF READ... MAKE CORRECTIONS... AND DECIDE IF WHAT I'VE TYPED is what I want to say or not..
But.. I'm usually distracted multiple times by small people...so.. I guess this time I got carried away and didn't realize that what I was typing was
OVER THE TOP...for some people...

I was CERTAINLY not attempting to attack or bully ANYONE
...
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jenn 12:38 PM 11-20-2012
Most daycares in my area charge for everyday whether the child is there or not. I totally understand why they do this, and respect their policies.

When making my contract, I tried to balance what I could feel comfortable with and what might attract parents to select my daycare.

I think the beauty of owning your own business is that you can choose how to run it. What is right for one daycare owner, may not be what is right for another.

I do not charge for days that I am not open. However, I am lucky in that I am basically never closed other than holidays. I have 2 wonderful subs that cover any sick, personal, or vacation days. I let the parents know when I will have a sub and they make the decision whether to bring their child or not. If they do not come for the sub day, they do pay, since my daycare was open.

I give each child 12 "free days" per year. They can use these as vacation days, sick days,... whatever. After their 12 days are used, they pay for everyday that I am open that they are scheduled to attend. I give these free days, because I am really picky about sickness. I send home even for simple colds or any sign of illness. I warn parents before they start with me that I will not watch sick kids.
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SunshineMama 01:34 PM 11-20-2012
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
But why?? I am just trying to get another prospective on the topic.....
My first year I didnt have parents pay for any holidays, but they were supposed to pay for my vacation. I had that policy bc I was afraid I wouldnt get parents to sign up with me if they had to pay for vacation. They did not pay for sick days for me.

After one year of struggling through the holidays, especially thankgiving and Christmas, I decided to have most federal holidays off and paid for.

I am amending my handbook again this year, going on year 3, to include paid sick pays for myself. I had to close 3 times this year because parents knowingly brought their sick children, and got either myself or my children sick. (We're talking stomach flu-no way to work through the pain illness).

Each year I learn a little more. But to answer your "why," it was because I was afraid the parents wouldnt want to pay or sign up. I have not had any problems going forward with parents going along with my new policies, or signing up.
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allsmiles 02:30 PM 11-20-2012
im in between.. i just started out and Thanksgiving has been my first real holiday and to be honest i just took Friday because most centers around here do as well. of course i take the regular national holidays because most ppl are off.. i have a sub thats really like a CO CAREGIVER so i didnt put sick days or personal days or vacation in my contract.

My problem would be parents not wanting to pay if they arent here and I know that when i was a parent paying for daycare i HATED to pay for winter break and such but on the other side i see its necessary for me anyway because of the whole ratio thing.. Right now i dont require they pay when they are not here, BUT i foresee changing it to requiring a certain fee to hold the spot for the week.
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Country Kids 09:04 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I beg to differ. I have never once in all the years I have done home daycare had a parent complain or question paying for my sick time, vacation time or holidays. As a matter of fact, I once went over my 5 paid sick/emergency days and tried to reimburse the parents for the extra day and they all told me to keep it
I make it so very clear in my interviews and handbook that when it comes to sick time, vacation or holidays parents simply pay and carry on (it might help that I am paid monthly as opposed to weekly or biweekly, however) - parents know there is zero room for negotiation when it comes to my policies or payments!
Maybe not for you but I've read on here ALOT from providers where parents are trying to get out of paying for holidays/vacations and such.
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allsmiles 09:44 AM 11-21-2012
country kids for ppl like myself that i guess is gearing toward NOT charging when im not open.. what do you do if you are open and they are not planning to come? winter breaks, summer breaks, their vacay, extended sick days or more than one " i just dont feel like coming" day in the week LOL
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Country Kids 09:54 AM 11-21-2012
They pay! If they are scheduled to be in attendance they are charged for it. I have it highlighted in my contract/PHB and make sure that its included in newsletters about every two months.

I have alot of teachers that have breaks off and they know from the beginning that they are charged when they are off if their child is not in attendance.

Now, I do not charge for summer breaks and never have had a problem with parents not returning. I think that is one of my perks and that is why my families (teachers) stay with me for so long.
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NeedaVaca 10:07 AM 11-21-2012
I charge a flat rate and parents pay the same amount 52 weeks per year, I take vacation and holidays paid. I have never had a single complaint. If I didn't do this I would not be able to pay my bills...I feel like I deserve the paid time off, it's a business, I set it up this way and parents can decide if I am right for them. I have never even had a interview where the parent decided to go with another provider because of this!!

Where I live, these paid holidays are the norm for most businesses and before I started daycare I worked at several different jobs where I got the holidays paid including 2 days for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I noticed a post where the provider says she was raised to only be paid for the work she will actually do. I understand every has different opinions on this subject but no way was I going to tell my boss I don't want my paid holiday because I won't actually be working.
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lovemykidstoo 10:12 AM 11-21-2012
Can someone tell me how the parents handle paying you (the provider) and also someone else when you take a vacation? If my fulltime parents that pay me $140 a week had to pay me that $140 while I'm on vacation and also pay someone else $140 for the same week would probably break some of them. I know alot of time my families take the same time off that I do because I give them my schedule in January, but there are some days that they don't. How can they afford to pay double for vacations?
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Country Kids 10:18 AM 11-21-2012
Please remember also, when people have paid vacations/holidays/sick/personal time their boss is NOT paying an additional pay to someone else for the person taking the time off. That boss is not losing out on money like a parent would be. Co-workers may pick up the slack but they aren't making more money.

The person would be making their paid time off.

Then the co-workers make their money while possibly picking up the person that is off work.

The boss doesn't pay pay additional wages out.

Does that make sense?
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Willow 10:23 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Please remember also, when people have paid vacations/holidays/sick/personal time their boss is NOT paying an additional pay to someone else for the person taking the time off. That boss is not losing out on money like a parent would be. Co-workers may pick up the slack but they aren't making more money.

The person would be making their paid time off.

Then the co-workers make their money while possibly picking up the person that is off work.

The boss doesn't pay pay additional wages out.

Does that make sense?



If someone else is doing my job, I don't expect to be getting paid for that.
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allsmiles 10:23 AM 11-21-2012
i gotcha! jus still trying to figure out what i feel is good for my business as well as fair.. set price for holding spot or full week's pay? yes i know FINE time to decide after 2 mnths in business.. it sounded nice to get paid when they are not here but i see parents are not really feeling this in this area and they have no problem switching day cares at the drop of a hat. ive gotten 3 from other places for SIMPLE stuff .. and i know i cant set my polices around my parents but at the same time, i do have to be smart and know the business climate i am in..

oh this is in reply to my question to country kids..
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Blackcat31 10:47 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Can someone tell me how the parents handle paying you (the provider) and also someone else when you take a vacation? If my fulltime parents that pay me $140 a week had to pay me that $140 while I'm on vacation and also pay someone else $140 for the same week would probably break some of them. I know alot of time my families take the same time off that I do because I give them my schedule in January, but there are some days that they don't. How can they afford to pay double for vacations?
Most my families take vacation the same time as I do.

I also only charge 50% of regular tuition for my vacation weeks and most my parents begin adding a little extra to their weekly checks a few weeks before my vacation week.

I take my vacation weeks during a time when most people around here either have family members around for the holidays or have teenagers available to watch thier kids.

I charge for a total of 10 days per where I am not actually available to watch their children. NONE of my families have ever complained or said no. They know signing on that is my policy and recently I have even ahd a few parents tell me I should take more time off paid because they understand that a happy well rested provider makes a good provider.

If they weren't willing to pay on those 10 days that I charge, then I would have to work just to make ends meet financially and an over worked, tired stressed out provider isnt healthy for anyone.

I am grateful that my parents are all willing and understanding about my paid days off, I have good parents and good relationships with them all so I feel it is a compromise and a win-win for everyone.

This is just my opinion and how I personally do things. It is in no way the only way, the right way or the wrong way. It is just a way that BOTH provider and clients agree too and it works for all of us.
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lovemykidstoo 11:06 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Most my families take vacation the same time as I do.

I also only charge 50% of regular tuition for my vacation weeks and most my parents begin adding a little extra to their weekly checks a few weeks before my vacation week.

I take my vacation weeks during a time when most people around here either have family members around for the holidays or have teenagers available to watch thier kids.

I charge for a total of 10 days per where I am not actually available to watch their children. NONE of my families have ever complained or said no. They know signing on that is my policy and recently I have even ahd a few parents tell me I should take more time off paid because they understand that a happy well rested provider makes a good provider.

If they weren't willing to pay on those 10 days that I charge, then I would have to work just to make ends meet financially and an over worked, tired stressed out provider isnt healthy for anyone.

I am grateful that my parents are all willing and understanding about my paid days off, I have good parents and good relationships with them all so I feel it is a compromise and a win-win for everyone.

This is just my opinion and how I personally do things. It is in no way the only way, the right way or the wrong way. It is just a way that BOTH provider and clients agree too and it works for all of us.
I'm in no way saying it's right, wrong or otherwise. I'm just wondering how they handle it. I've never asked for paid vacations. I just stopped giving my families 2 weeks worth of days that they could use for their own vacation and not pay. I didn't have any problem doing that because they don't have to pay someone else to watch their kids if they're off. I have great relationships with my families too. I've never heard any flack about any day that I take off or leave early at all. Maybe it's differnet areas that are more accepting of that. Around here there is noone that I can find that charges for their own vacation thereby having the parents pay double for the week. I probably would be out of business if I tried it. Not that I wouldn't love it, because trust me that would be fabulous. If you can do it and your parents don't mind, more power to ya. I think that daycare is expensive enough and to have to pay twice if you don't have the time off or family to watch the kids then that's a bummer.

Just for kicks, I think I'm going to ask my families today to see what they woudl say. Of course I'm not going to tell them that I'm doing that, but just tell them I want their honest opinion.

BC, did you say you charge full rate or 1/2 rate when you take vacation or sick?
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momofsix 11:12 AM 11-21-2012
I've been "in the business" for over 21 years.
I don't charge if the kids aren't here. I don't charge holidays, I don't charge sick days, I don't charge vacation days...nothing. Some of my families will pay me anyhow-but that is their choice-and I always thank them for it. They ALL tell me how grateful they are for my payment policies. They don't take advantage of it.
I guess I agree with Willow, if I don't work I don't think I should be paid. (speaking for myself and my own conscious here-NOT judging any one else!)
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Blackcat31 11:21 AM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
BC, did you say you charge full rate or 1/2 rate when you take vacation or sick?
For holidays that fall during the week, I close and the parents pay their regular weekly rate.

For MY vacation times (one week during the week of 4th of July and one week between Christmas and New Years) I charge 50% of their regular rate.

Most my families start adding a few extra dollars to their weekly checks a few weeks prior to the vacation so that it isn't a huge financial burden to them.

I have only used one sick day in all my years open and I do not charge for any days I close and am unavailable to care for the kids other than the vacation/holidays I mentioned.

I do periodically close a day here and there when I have only a couple kids scheduled but I never charge for those days.
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Country Kids 11:48 AM 11-21-2012
I don't charge for my days off and I take quiet a few.

Would it help me, I guess but at the same time I feel I make a good wage without having to do this and believe me, I make far less then alot of providers on here.

Also, even though this is my career-I don't want to make it about money. I want to do this because I enjoy it and can make money at what I like to do. I remember paying for child care and couldn't believe everything I was charged for. I think back to those days and want my parents to know I'm thinking of it also from their stand point also.

If I'm having to charge for everything-then I have to look at my own living situation. Why am I needing/wanting to charge for time off. In the next two days I'm going to lose probably $200 dollars. Same with Veterans day-Probably $100.

I guess I could charge for my time off but for some reason I personally wouldn't feel right having my parents pay when I'm not providing the service that they are paying me for and then have to pay an additional fee to some one else.

Thats just me personally and I think its great for those that can do it. I think that is why I have parents stay with me for so long-I don't charge over the top for my services but still provide great services. I have had 4 referral calls in just this month from 2 of my families (3 from one family and 1 from another). This tells me I'm doing something right!
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Holiday Park 12:03 PM 11-21-2012
I'm going to be off only for the holidays that my Husband has off. SO I'm not charging for Christmas and Thanksgiving. I'm also going to take off for a few days each time my kids are out of school,so I can do something special with them (take them to park/zoo etc.. chill with no DKkids) . Those days will all be unpaid,including Christmas &Thanksgiving. However, the other holidays other people usually get off work,like when banks and post office are closed (when my husband still has to work) I am still charging for those days. Because that's what works for me. And I think it sounds fair .

What *I* hate is when a client takes their own vacation and I don't get paid until two weeks later,or the end of their vacation week,for the following week. I found that really hurts my pocket .
For example I am closed Thursday and Friday (I didn't charge for those to begin with). I was open Mon-Today . So I had ONE child on Monday. Both families payments for this week,from last Friday was already pro-rated to begin with. The other family is on vacation ALL this week. She didn't tell me until FRIDAY of last week. She expected to not pay me at all. I told her she still had to pay for this week,on Friday because it's pay whether he comes or not (If I'm available) . And because last time she got a free week, was because I had told them at our interview that if I got LOTS (like months) of advance notice about vacation,they didn't have to pay. Her mom told me from the day of the interview about the last vacation they took,so i didn't charge her. SO this time,she gives me no notice and says she doesn't remember that agreement. (Which is one of the many reasons why I'm making a handbook now! lol )
Since I didn't have a policy about paying for the following week after a vacation week, I was too uncomfortable to tell her, "OH by the way I also need payment for the week after next, NOW" Since you'all will be gone all next week." Instead I told her to get payment for next week ,sometime this week. The other family I have, (kid who came Monday) paid me in advance for next week , just to be nice .
SO I'm going to have it in the new handbook that if there is a vacation week (for either person) Payment for the next week after, is due, before that vacation week, not during or after.
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LaLa1923 04:52 PM 11-21-2012
Originally Posted by Texasjeepgirl:
I am a FIRM BELIEVER in PROFESSIONALISM in my DAYCARE.

Frankly.. I feel that those caregivers that DO NOT VALUE THEMSELVES...are the providers that do not charge their clients for sick days... personal days... and vacation time... as well as NATIONAL HOLIDAYS...

Home CHILD CARE is a brutal business if you don't develop some professional policies... conduct your business as though you are the C E O of a major corporation.
When you don't charge for sick days... vacation days...
you are basically setting yourself to be a 'glorified' babysitter....

If you love your child care business... if you love the fact that you are your OWN BOSS...then be a good boss to your NUMBER 1 employee...
YOU...
Chief bottle washer... diaper changer... window washer... boo boo fixer...
YOU DESERVE VACATION... PAID VACATION..YOU DESERVE SICK DAYS AND PERSONAL DAYS.

I've said it before.. and I will continue to say it..

Put some thought and research into your PARENT HANDBOOK...
When you have a potential client... provide them with your parent handbook.. and MAKE SURE they read and agree to it...
If you have a client that doesn't want to pay for your sick days.. personal days... and vacation time.. then you don't need to have them as a client.
I agree with the post immediately before mine...
I don't have ANYONE COMPLAIN about my fees.. my closing dates... vacation... etc..
Why..?
Because they agree to it all when they choose me as their caregiver...
I make sure that my clients CLEARY understand and agree to all of my policies.. or I suggest they seek other care.

5 years ago I didn't charge for vacation time.
I needed a hysterectomy. My school teacher sister 'lead me to believe' that she would come run my daycare for me so that I could have the surgery.
(it was summer time.. she was out of school).
She arrived at my home on Monday evening... I had surgery Tuesday.. while she and my teenage daughters ran daycare. I returned home from hospital on Thursday.. and that evening her young son began to throw up...
I sent her home... and the following day.. Friday.. I ran my daycare.. with the assistance of my daughters and husband...
The daycare NEVER CLOSED..
Why.. ???
Because I didn't charge my clients for vacation time.. and I could not afford to close down and loose the income.
My daughters helped me for 2 weeks.. lifting the babies on to the changing table so that I could change them.. cooking and serving meals.. and basic supervision assistance... but I was on my feet every day... from 3 days after surgery...
IF I had paid vacation time back then.. I could have closed.. atleast 1 week...without suffering an income loss...
Thank you! Do you happen to have a blog? I feel like i've read this somewhere else. If my parents get paid for the same benefits then why not? I've been on the fence lately.....but it does seem to be the norm around here. I NEED my income
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thatdivalady 05:20 PM 11-21-2012
My policies are that I get paid for all major holidays. I do not charge for my vacation but then again I am fortunate to have an assistant and another staff person available for those days.

Since my daughter was in daycare before I understand the parent perspective of being a little miffed by having to pay for another provider to watch their children in addition to paying their regular provider. I have nothing against anyone who does it, it just was not the route I wanted to take. If I take a day off (aside from holidays) and cannot cover that time, I do not charge the families.

I don't think it's a matter of devaluing my service, I just think it's my personal and professional way of handling my business. If I don't support an idea I cannot put it into practice and stand behind it. I simply charge more per week and that way it evens out to where it is not the end of the world for my 2 week vacation. btw this is actually an idea out of Tom Copeland's book on family daycare!
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littlemissmuffet 05:45 PM 11-21-2012
[quote=Willow;287668]I don't charge for any of my days off, holiday or not.

Why? Because my parents raised me to believe you get paid for the work you DO. [\QUOTE]

Me too! And that's why I *DO* charge for holidays/vacation and sick time
I work my butt off 2300 + hours per year - I DESERVE the 350 hours off a year I get! My DC parents agree - that's why they never question or complain about paying me when I am closed. They VALUE my services and know they get MORE than they pay for

I have nothing against providers who don't take paid time off - but I find that these are the providers who are the least happy with their career choice, the least happy with the families they end up with and happen to vent the most here on the forum... I know this isn't *always* the case, but I (and I'm sure others) see a strong connection.
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thatdivalady 06:15 AM 11-22-2012
[quote=littlemissmuffet;288296]
Originally Posted by Willow:
I don't charge for any of my days off, holiday or not.

Why? Because my parents raised me to believe you get paid for the work you DO. [\QUOTE]

Me too! And that's why I *DO* charge for holidays/vacation and sick time
I work my butt off 2300 + hours per year - I DESERVE the 350 hours off a year I get! My DC parents agree - that's why they never question or complain about paying me when I am closed. They VALUE my services and know they get MORE than they pay for

I have nothing against providers who don't take paid time off - but I find that these are the providers who are the least happy with their career choice, the least happy with the families they end up with and happen to vent the most here on the forum... I know this isn't *always* the case, but I (and I'm sure others) see a strong connection.
I think that your last statement depends on the person. If you are like me and cannot stomach the thought of charging a family for days when YOU are unable to provide services and they STILL have to pay someone else to watch their child/children, then your decision not to charge the families for sick or vacation time does not make you unhappy with your career choice.

I am glad that you said that you know this isn't always the case, I just wish everyone would accept that there will be times when they make decisions for their business that others would not make and it's okay. : )
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Mom&Provider 06:40 AM 11-23-2012
I charge a weekly rate for FT spots and PT rates are based on # of days they are here - I charge more per day the less they are here. I am open from 7:30 am to 5 pm and they can use some or all of the hours, but the rate is the same no matter how many hours they use per day/week.

I think I have a mix of getting paid vs not for certain things. This is what I have established:

No charge for my own sick days or vacation days - up to 3 wks/year

I allow 5 or 3 sick/free days per year, depending on FT or PT spot

BUT...

I do charge once they have used up those sick/free days if their child is off
I do charge for Stat Holidays when I am closed
I do charge if I send the child home after drop-off (even if they have sick days to use)
I do charge if I need to close early - they pay the regular rate - no discount

I know most centers around in my area charge no matter what, but I've found for families around my area a big draw to home daycare is the fact that there is more wiggle room to these rules (amung other things too), but I find they like not paying 52 weeks per year and it's an advantage to me to offer it.

I offer sick/free days outside my own vacation days to encourage parents to keep their children home when they are sick. It helps keep sickies at home, not always, but it does help.

I know most places of business allow employees to take paid vacation, but I guess I feel that if I'm not providing anything for families since I'm on vacation they shouldn't really have to pay. I know it's not any different if I worked in an office and got paid to do nothing for them while I take days off...but I guess it's more the industry in this case and what families in each area are willing to pay for!
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LK5kids 07:39 AM 11-23-2012
I used to give five free days. I read here where someone's policy is 5 free days if child attends five days a week, four free if they attend four days, three free if they attend three days, etc. I think this is a great idea and I would not have thought of it. So that's what I do now. At some point I'm getting rid of free days all together.

I live in a low income and rural county. I'm sure centers in urban areas charge whether kids attend or not. One area center (not a family child care center) gives families two weeks off! That's crazy!

I don't charge for holidays, sick days or my vacations or days off. I feel I'm self employed and need to budget in for that. If I owned a floral shop and closed for a holiday or had to have someone work because I was sick I'd bring in less $$$.

I am a professional in every sense of the word. I have a B.A. Early childhood/elementary Ed. I've taught preschool and kindergarten, etc., and years of experience in the early childhood field.

That said I do understand the advice to not undersell yourself and to take care of
the business side of your child care service.

I charge on the upper end for my area and I won't work for less. I wil never allow a family to attend if they are not up-to-date with payments, I charge a small extra fee for preschool activities,
I won't take more than one infant and one toddler, as personally i can't deal with more (the rest are preschool age), etc.

I have a large policy parent handbook and go over carefully before parents enroll.

I hire someone to come in twice a week for few hours so I can go out to eat with a friend, go down to the local coffe shop and chill out, etc.

Those are just a few ways I take care of myself and my business.
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Texasjeepgirl 08:15 AM 11-24-2012
Originally Posted by LaLa1923:
Thank you! Do you happen to have a blog? I feel like i've read this somewhere else. If my parents get paid for the same benefits then why not? I've been on the fence lately.....but it does seem to be the norm around here. I NEED my income
I don't have a blog...
I occasionally post on this forum... a few weeks ago I posted a thread about having a backbone... and told a few stories that were my recent experiences ... Michael contacted me regarding that story...and it is now on the front page of this site...
www.daycare.com
perhaps what you remember reading was in that story.. or in the thread I had posted..?

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Texasjeepgirl 10:16 AM 11-24-2012
I have read over and over on this thread... as well as other threads on same subject....

The providers are concerned about what the parents will do if they have to 'DOUBLE PAY'

NOT charging your clients for sick days.. vacation days... and even holidays.. because you are worried for them that they would have to pay your time off... and then pay someone else's time as well..

Using that thought as the reason for not charging is making a blanket assumption that every single client and future potential client has no other options for child care if you were to close .

That may be true for some of your clients.. but the truth is.. IF you give your parents as much ADVANCE notice as possible..for vacation time.. many of them have other options... family members, grandparents, teenager in the neighborhood that babysits for extra income, comp days/vacation in their own job... etc... etc.. etc.

Obviously sick days usually happen with little or no advance notice... but anytime I have closed my daycare down for a vacation.. my parents are notified 4 to 6 months in advance... and I ALWAYS offer the option of adding a few dollars per week to their regular weekly fee in order to cover the cost so that it doesn't hit them all that week.

Think about this...

Let's say you charge a client $100 per week.
You give these clients 3 months notice that you are going to take your paid vacation.
12 weeks advance notice...
They could pay $8.33 per week extra.. and cover the week.
if you gave them even more notice..... 4 months.. 16 weeks... they could pay $6.25 per week extra.

If you are a HOME caregiver.. and you have a good relationship with your clients...they would be more than glad to pay $5 or $6 extra per week .. for a few weeks.. in order for the caregiver of their precious child to have a vacation.

This is JUST MY OPINION...and maybe some of you that do not charge have never thought about it this way...

Someone made the comment that they couldn't 'stomach' the thought of charging their clients for service not provided..
That implies that you feel you are CHEATING THEM...


When you work for a company...
you gradually earn 'paid vacation time'.. this is usually earned by staying with the company... the longer you are with the company.. the more vacation time you build up.. you also 'earn' this vacation time by 'being a good employee'.. if you weren't a good employee.. then they could fire you and hire someone else .. right?

Then when you take your paid vacation.. you are NOT at your job... you are not doing the job you are paid to do.. yet you are being paid.

That is how PAID vacation works... you are being PAID to not be at work.
someone is paying you... the company you work for is paying you NOT TO BE AT WORK....
And in many cases... that company has to pay SOMEONE ELSE to do your job.... so .. in that instance.. that company is basically DOUBLE PAYING..
paying you to be off work.. and... paying someone else to do your job....

That is why .. in my original post on this thread.. I made the statement that you should treat your child care business like you are the CEO of a large company.
You are the boss... you are the employee...

If you have read many of my posts.. or..
clicked on the link to my website.. or my SHUTTERFLY... you may know a little about me.
Although I am a HOME provider in TEXAS... I don't live in a traditional HOUSE.
We live inside our 16,000 sq ft furniture store in a private apartment we created in a back room.

When I applied to Child Care Licensing to put my daycare inside this building.. I was given the option to become a FACILITY style daycare .. because this building is zoned for commercial use. I specifically chose NOT to become a facility... even though I am qualified to be a DIRECTOR...

I do not want to be a facility.. I do not want to have employees .

I explain to each and every person that contacts me for child care that I am NOT A FACILITY..
I am a ONE WOMAN SHOW... if they select me as their caregiver.. then they have to understand that from the begining...

We all know that if a parent places their child in a facility.. they are choosing the facility... because it is a nice building.. nice location.. nice curriculum ... But the child will be in a room with a morning teacher.. and an afternoon teacher... and assistants... and a DIRECTOR of the entire facility.

If they choose a HOME caregiver... they are choosing THAT PERSON... that person's home... that person's FAMILY.. to assist in caring for their child.

When you add a child to your daycare.. you are adding a child to your family if you are running a home care business..

With that said...
I feel that if a person chooses me to care for their child... they value me... they value my ability to provide the most wonderful.. safe.. nurturing care for their child...
They also value that I have a family...a home.. bills to pay.
After all.. why else do you choose to do this job? To earn money to pay the bills for your home and family. I will need time off for illness... personal days.. and vacation. If I don't recieve payment for those things.. then.... I might not take that time off...because I can't be without my income...

I speak from experience on this issue... I only started charging for my vacation in 2010...
I took a 1 week vacation in 2002... and I didn't take another 1 week vacation until 2006.. because I just couldn't afford to do it.
I don't know about the rest of you...but working for 52 weeks per year.. with no vacation time at all.. makes for a burned out care giver.

By choosing to be a home caregiver... and by a potential client selecting a HOME CAREGIVER rather than a facility.. there are certain things that have to be acknowledged...

Home caregivers NEED to be able to have sick days.. and not have a huge fluctuation in their income.
Home caregivers need to be able to take a vacation.. and not suffer an income loss.... and since a home caregiver is their own boss.. you have the ability to run your business this way.. and provide EXCELLENT care to your clients when you are working.. so that they want you to have the needed time off to continue to be the BEST CAREGIVER to their child when you are working....if that means they have to DOUBLE PAY... while you are off work.. in the event they don't have other... 'free' options... allot of parents will be glad to do that... because they value the care you give to their child so much...


If you were a professional 'nanny'.. for let's say.. a wealthy family...
Paid holidays... paid sick time... paid vacation.. would be included in your salary. That family would value your service to their family.. to their child.. so much.. they would compensate you to have time off.

Being a home provider of child care is the same thing.. except that you are doing it in your own home...with your own equipment..

I'm not describing this in such detail to
Put down any provider that does not charge.. so please don't misunderstand ..
All I am attempting to do is give other view points .. for those of you who don't currently charge.. in case it helps you with how you choose to run your child care business. I think all of us are always trying to find new ways to improve our businesses. IF you read a new view point on an issue.. and it helps you decide to implement a new policy in your business.. that might improve the quality of your business.. the quality of your life.. then it is a win win.... but.. as always..
We are all OUR OWN BOSS.. and that is the beauty of home care giving... we get to decide what policies will work best for us.. our home.. our child care business.



www.tammyschildcare.com

www.texasjeepgirl.shutterfly.com


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Blackcat31 03:13 PM 11-24-2012
Originally Posted by Texasjeepgirl:
I'm not describing this in such detail to
Put down any provider that does not charge.. so please don't misunderstand ..
All I am attempting to do is give other view points .. for those of you who don't currently charge.. in case it helps you with how you choose to run your child care business. I think all of us are always trying to find new ways to improve our businesses. IF you read a new view point on an issue.. and it helps you decide to implement a new policy in your business.. that might improve the quality of your business.. the quality of your life.. then it is a win win.... but.. as always..
We are all OUR OWN BOSS.. and that is the beauty of home care giving... we get to decide what policies will work best for us.. our home.. our child care business.



www.tammyschildcare.com

www.texasjeepgirl.shutterfly.com

Tammy, I think that was very well said. I know not everyone agrees and does things the same way as you do but I do think it is important for providers to hear about and really understand other perspectives.

Being able to fully understand why some providers do what they do or have policies that they do helps them become the best provider they can be.

If your post helps someone considering charging for time off to begin charging from now on, then great!

If your words reinforce the policy another provider has about not charging for time off, then that's great too!!

Why? because that is the beauty of sharing a perspective. It helps a provider be absolutely sure and confident in the policies and rules they have chosen for their child care and supporting what they believe is right as far as those rules/policies.

Thank you for sharing and I hope that whether a provider chooses to charge for time off or not charge for time off, that they all feel as though they are valued and respected as that is the whole reason we belong to this forum in the first place......so we can learn from, teach and share with each other.
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momofboys 07:53 PM 11-24-2012
I do charge for sick days but not for my vacation. Although the extra money is helpful we don't rely on my income. I only watch two families PT & take the whole summer off (teacher's families). Ilove the families I watch & love my job but wouldn't dream of charging for days I take off mostly because I enjoy my days off & don't expect parents to pay for what I don't provide. However, I don't think any of you providers are wrong to do so - I simply choose not to. Now if I wad providing care for 4-5 families. I would likely handle it differently
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Country Kids 10:40 PM 11-24-2012
That is how PAID vacation works... you are being PAID to not be at work.
someone is paying you... the company you work for is paying you NOT TO BE AT WORK....
And in many cases... that company has to pay SOMEONE ELSE to do your job.... so .. in that instance.. that company is basically DOUBLE PAYING..
paying you to be off work.. and... paying someone else to do your job....



Tammy-From working in a few companies that have offered paid vacations the boss is not out any additional money when paying people for time off.

Example-I take a vacation

Employee x covers my position while I'm off. Usually covering my position while still doing their work.

Employer-Still paying me (for paid vacation) and employee x is still making the same wage. They don't get their wage plus mine, so boss isn't out any additional pay.

Child care:

I take a vacation with pay.

Back up person-Now making additional money to watch child.

Parents-Paying me my portion to be on vacation and paying back up person.

Result:In one week parents are paying double for childcare.
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Blackcat31 07:15 AM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:

Child care:

I take a vacation with pay.

Back up person-Now making additional money to watch child.

Parents-Paying me my portion to be on vacation and paying back up person.

Result:In one week parents are paying double for childcare.
As Tammy pointed out, you are making a generalization and assumming ALL families are paying someone to watch their child while you are off.

NOT all families have to pay someone to care for their child when their child care is closed.

None of my current DCF's double pay anyone. They all have family and/or friends available to watch their child while I am closed. If they didn't then I suppose they would have chosen a provider who didnt charge for time off since they would have to double pay.

That is the beauty of finding and choosing a situation that works for you.

If I had trouble getting clients due to my vacation/holiday charges then I would absolutely change my policies. But charging for provider vacation and holidays is normal around here so providers charge and parents pay.

I think this is a topic that NOT all providers are going to agree on so agreeing to disagree is probaby best considering not all areas and communities do things in the same manner. Knowing your community and it's needs are key to being a successful business owner.

Explaining and re-explaining how companies pay out double or don't pay out double is a moot point.

Providers should do what works for their business. (I don't give two hoots what any other company does or doesn't do)

Parents have a responsibility to choose a provider who has policies they can live with and manage financially.

Providers have a responsibilty to meet the needs of the community and offer the type of service that "sells" or they wouldn't be in business long.

Bottom line is do what works for YOU. There is NO right or wrong way.
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Country Kids 07:50 AM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
As Tammy pointed out, you are making a generalization and assumming ALL families are paying someone to watch their child while you are off.

NOT all families have to pay someone to care for their child when their child care is closed.

None of my current DCF's double pay anyone. They all have family and/or friends available to watch their child while I am closed. If they didn't then I suppose they would have chosen a provider who didnt charge for time off since they would have to double pay.

That is the beauty of finding and choosing a situation that works for you.

If I had trouble getting clients due to my vacation/holiday charges then I would absolutely change my policies. But charging for provider vacation and holidays is normal around here so providers charge and parents pay.

I think this is a topic that NOT all providers are going to agree on so agreeing to disagree is probaby best considering not all areas and communities do things in the same manner. Knowing your community and it's needs are key to being a successful business owner.

Explaining and re-explaining how companies pay out double or don't pay out double is a moot point.

Providers should do what works for their business. (I don't give two hoots what any other company does or doesn't do)

Parents have a responsibility to choose a provider who has policies they can live with and manage financially.

Providers have a responsibilty to meet the needs of the community and offer the type of service that "sells" or they wouldn't be in business long.

Bottom line is do what works for YOU. There is NO right or wrong way.
I was just stating that when a company has someone on vacation they aren't "double" paying, being out additional money. I was quoting something Tammy had said in her post.

I didn't say this was the way for all families either. Never mentioned that at all in my post. Just said parents pay double for two providers. Some people do have parents that double pay, we can't generalize either it that all parents have families/friends watch their children.

For my own families they all stay home with their children if I'm sick/vacation or personal days. I finally have someone that can come in and help for personal day so I don't take that off anymore, saving my families some of their time. I don't worry about them not having backups but I do know how hard it is to find someone to watch your children when everyone works that you know.

I'm not upset with anyone that charges for their time off and never tried to make it an arguement. I was simply stating how I did it to the op and then it seemed to take off. The people that do charge seemed to get angry with the ones that didn't charge. I've just tried to explain it from how my business has successfully ran for 17 years. I hav changed it so much from when I first started it would make your head spin, but taking time off is one thing I have never changed. Why fix it if it isn't broke?

A few of the post really upset me but I didn't say anything and still biting my tongue as those are those posters feelings but to generalize things that way was very hurtful. It made me feel I wasn't playing in the big league and didn't know how to run my business. I do know though I run a great business, have wonderful families, a great reputation, and get referral calls all the time from my clients.

So I'm leaving this thread know and going to enjoy a wonderful day with family/friends and wind down an awesome 4 day weekend (2 days which were unpaid).
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Blackcat31 08:35 AM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I was just stating that when a company has someone on vacation they aren't "double" paying, being out additional money. I was quoting something Tammy had said in her post.
But companies ARE paying double. They are paying BOTH the employee who is off AND the employee who is covering for them.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I didn't say this was the way for all families either. Never mentioned that at all in my post. Just said parents pay double for two providers. Some people do have parents that double pay, we can't generalize either it that all parents have families/friends watch their children.
No, we can't generalize in either direction, which is why I stated several times that EACH provider needs to do what works for them.

I personally, have families that do not have to double pay.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
For my own families they all stay home with their children if I'm sick/vacation or personal days. I finally have someone that can come in and help for personal day so I don't take that off anymore, saving my families some of their time. I don't worry about them not having backups but I do know how hard it is to find someone to watch your children when everyone works that you know.
I am glad you have found a solution that works for BOTH you and for your families. As I said, that is the key to finding what is right.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I'm not upset with anyone that charges for their time off and never tried to make it an arguement. I was simply stating how I did it to the op and then it seemed to take off. The people that do charge seemed to get angry with the ones that didn't charge. I've just tried to explain it from how my business has successfully ran for 17 years. I hav changed it so much from when I first started it would make your head spin, but taking time off is one thing I have never changed. Why fix it if it isn't broke?
I hope you didn't take my post as being upset with you as I was not.
I also hope you are not lumping me into those providers you feel are angry with those who don't charge for their time off. I support ALL providers in how they do things, so long as it makes them happy and works for them.

I also don't feel as though charging for time off or not charging is a matter of being broken or not. It is more of what works in your community and what the current needs of your clients are. If it isn't the norm in your area to be paid for your time off, then it isn't going to be well received by potential clients.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
A few of the post really upset me but I didn't say anything and still biting my tongue as those are those posters feelings but to generalize things that way was very hurtful. It made me feel I wasn't playing in the big league and didn't know how to run my business. I do know though I run a great business, have wonderful families, a great reputation, and get referral calls all the time from my clients.
One of the biggest hurdles to cross or accept when participating in a public forum is to take what YOU feel applies to you and leave the rest. I don't think it is even possible for posts to be made that will please everyone or that ALL members will agree with.

I also think that if your feelings were hurt by a comment someone else made, then you need to look at why. Why would someone else's thoughts and opinion make you feel as though you aren't "playing in the big league"?

If you have had a successful and profitable business for over 17 years then you should definitely have learned along the way that EVERY provider does things differently and they are in NO setting the bar for others. If you have been successful for 17 years then that alone should speak volumes about you and your program.

17 years says YOU ARE SUCESSFUL and ARE doing things right!!

Having that kind of experience behind me has enabled me to feel as though I am "playing in the big leagues" since I have managed to stay successful for so many years. Your years of service should give you the same in return.

One (or a few other) opinions should in no way make you second guess your policies or practices.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
So I'm leaving this thread know and going to enjoy a wonderful day with family/friends and wind down an awesome 4 day weekend (2 days which were unpaid).
I am also enjoying the end of a long wonderful weekend of which 2 of my 4 days off were also unpaid. My DD heads back to college in a couple hours and I have a mountain of laundry to tackle too!

Here's to long weekends and time with family and friends!
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Texasjeepgirl 09:46 AM 11-25-2012
Thank you Black Cat... I really appreciate your posts....

To any of you that I offended or irritated with my post or follow up post.. Please know I am sorry if the way I worded something caused irritation.

I by NO MEANS think I am playing in some 'league above any other provider' .. nor do I intend on implying that by the manner in which I describe my opinion.

The original post was a question...
Why charge.. or why not charge.


I live in a relatively small town....
I am a HOME PROVIDER...
I stated in my posts.. I only began charging for my own vacation in 2010... I've been in business for over 20 years...
I recap several stories in my BACKBONE thread as well as the article.. that I have learned, evolved, and changed my policies in my daycare over the years...

Most of what I have changed in my own daycare is based on things I've read on this and similar forums...

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momofboys 09:52 AM 11-25-2012
I want to comment on the double paying of employees. It simply isn't the case in some situations. At my husband's work if someone is off work that person's work just gets divided by other employees who are already being paid, it is not as if they a paying extra or hiring someone new, and they definitely don't pay extra simply b/c an employee has to pick up a few extra duties for a few days
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Country Kids 11:47 AM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by momofboys:
I want to comment on the double paying of employees. It simply isn't the case in some situations. At my husband's work if someone is off work that person's work just gets divided by other employees who are already being paid, it is not as if they a paying extra or hiring someone new, and they definitely don't pay extra simply b/c an employee has to pick up a few extra duties for a few days
I know I said I wouldn't comment anymore but.........

Momofboys-I have explained this about 2-3 times and no one seems to understand this!

Thank you for rewording it because I'm was wondering if maybe I wasn't explaining well. The boss isn't out anymore money as a parent would be. The only place I think that they bring in extra people and have to pay out more is when a teacher is off and they have to bring in a sub. There could be more but this is what I'm thinking of right of the top of my head.

What you wrote is probably how the majority of companies work. I know that is how it is at my husbands work and all my parents works.

OK, maybe I can keep quiet now.
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littlemissmuffet 02:03 PM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I know I said I wouldn't comment anymore but.........

Momofboys-I have explained this about 2-3 times and no one seems to understand this!

Thank you for rewording it because I'm was wondering if maybe I wasn't explaining well. The boss isn't out anymore money as a parent would be. The only place I think that they bring in extra people and have to pay out more is when a teacher is off and they have to bring in a sub. There could be more but this is what I'm thinking of right of the top of my head.

What you wrote is probably how the majority of companies work. I know that is how it is at my husbands work and all my parents works.

OK, maybe I can keep quiet now.
Yes, this is assuming that a parent actually pays another provider to watch their children while their usual provider is on vacation. And to be honest, the more I talk to parents AND providers (not just where I live but all across Canada and the US) I really don't think that the majority of parents do double pay - I think the majority take paid time off themselves or have free backups (family/friends). I know SOME do, but I absolutely don't think it's as common as many here make it out to be.

I also disagree that the only place that would bring in extra staff to cover someone on vacation is a school. I have a friend who used to work at a temp agency and she was called in to many different companies to cover people on vacation, sick leave and parental leaves. To cover vacations she was called into work at a variety of retail stores (sales and cashier), call centers, cleaning companies, hotels (front desk and housekeeping) and rental agencies to name a few.

I'm just grateful that I don't have to have this discussion with parents - they all agree to pay my vacations, and I've even had a few suggest I take THREE paid weeks. This shows me they appreciate and value the care I provide - and it's their way of caring for me right back
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countrymom 03:06 PM 11-25-2012
I don't charge for days off or vacation or sick time. Where I LIVE just isn't feesable to do this. Also, I find that by not charging for sick time, I rarely have sick kids here in my care.
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Crystal 03:26 PM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
Can someone tell me how the parents handle paying you (the provider) and also someone else when you take a vacation? If my fulltime parents that pay me $140 a week had to pay me that $140 while I'm on vacation and also pay someone else $140 for the same week would probably break some of them. I know alot of time my families take the same time off that I do because I give them my schedule in January, but there are some days that they don't. How can they afford to pay double for vacations?
Don't know if you have been answered, as I didn't read the rest of the posts yet.....

My parents are given 6 months notice of vacation time (schedule for the entire year given in January, vacation is always in July) and they ALL take the week off. They also all have the same holidays off that I take off. I take four additional days off during the year and give at least two months notice and they take the day off or have a grandparent care for the children. I don't take sick days unexpectedly (3 times in 16 years, so not never, but not usually either).

IF I had a parent who HAD to pay someone when I vacationed, AND that parent had always been good about following policies and didn't take ALL of her days off for herself (ie. without a GOOD reason) I would meet her halfway and charge half.
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Unregistered 07:56 PM 11-25-2012
Originally Posted by willow:
i don't charge for any of my days off, holiday or not.

Why? Because my parents raised me to believe you get paid for the work you do.

To me that's not giving parents free days. Often times parents need to find alternate care for my days off if they are still scheduled to work, so they should have to pay two providers that day if that's the case simply because i'm not available?i don't believe so. And if they have the day off i'm still doing nothing for their family and they may or may not be getting paid themselves....but i should still feel good about pulling money out of their pockets regardless? I'm sorry, but i just don't.

There are many professions, particularly for those who are self employed, that do not get paid for holidays or time off. In my heart and mind (and not meaning to offend anyone who has come to different conclusions) it is not some sort of inherent right to require payment for services not provided...in any profession.

I believe the cost of living for the masses would greatly decrease if everyone could get on board with that belief.

That said, if you chose to require it, that is entirely your business. You need to decide for you what you feel is fair. At the end of the day you need to be able to close shop and feel like what you're doing is benefiting is you and your family, you need to feel good about the way you run your daycare.

That gut feeling, is the only one that should matter.
i respect your point of view and understand you dont want to feel convicted about getting paid for leave. That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used. In a way the slot we sell for our child care service is simulare to an insurance policy. A agreement that under certian terms and conditions you will recieve childcare. If a insurance company relize it is not in there best interest to cover every car accident of their policy holders or refund the money paid for each month you donít get in a accident and even create regulations in their contracts so that they can realistically provide a service with out going bankrupt why shouldnt we. It bussiness and as small bussiness owner we are more vonerable then a corperation if big bussiness think its wise then surely we cant afford to run our bussiness like that. What happen when the un expected happens for example: A death in the family, your own sick child ect life is to unpridictable to have your money unpredictable too. Why put your self in position where if something where to happen you got to decide can afford to loose the money over it we have overhead cost to think about and family responsibilty so if a crisis does arise at lease give yor self one less thing to worry about. Its good you have so much compassion for your clients and their interest im pretty sure that is one of the reasons why they choose you but there are many ways to show your apreciation and compassion for them besides shorting your self.
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Angelwings36 06:29 AM 11-26-2012
I take three weeks of PAID vacation per year, 5 paid personal days that I can use for any reason and all stat holidays (I’m in Canada) at full pay. Last year was the first year that I took 3 weeks of paid vacation. In 2010 and 2009 I took two weeks of vacation at 50% pay and prior to that I didn’t take any paid vacation. I decided last year that I would start taking paid vacation to stabilize my income giving myself the means to take time off and be able to afford it. I do not give families any free childcare days. Families pay for the space here and not the services and I make that very clear in my interviews. I do not get paid benefits in my career nor do I have the option to take stress leave without losing clients. When I have a new baby I have to either pay in for a whole year to receive paid maternity leave at 55% of my income and lose all the clientele that I have in the process or bite the bullet and take minimal time (typically no more than a couple to a few weeks) off work in order to secure my career. Running a home daycare is a very physically and mentally straining career and for that reason alone I would not continue to do what I do if I had to add an unstable income into the mix as well. I am in a large city and can typically fill any vacancies I have within a week of finding out I have one and I get one months notice of termination so it’s very rare that I am down a child. As far as I am concerned childcare in not expensive at all. I charge a flat rate of $650/month for a full time child of any age. On the average 22 work day month I make $29.55/day per child. The average child is with me from 7:30am - 5:00pm per day so if you break the fee down to an hourly rate families are paying $3.11 an hour for someone else to care for their children. Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.
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Angelwings36 06:36 AM 11-26-2012
Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
I take three weeks of PAID vacation per year, 5 paid personal days that I can use for any reason and all stat holidays (Iím in Canada) at full pay. Last year was the first year that I took 3 weeks of paid vacation. In 2010 and 2009 I took two weeks of vacation at 50% pay and prior to that I didnít take any paid vacation. I decided last year that I would start taking paid vacation to stabilize my income giving myself the means to take time off and be able to afford it. I do not give families any free childcare days. Families pay for the space here and not the services and I make that very clear in my interviews. I do not get paid benefits in my career nor do I have the option to take stress leave without losing clients. When I have a new baby I have to either pay in for a whole year to receive paid maternity leave at 55% of my income and lose all the clientele that I have in the process or bite the bullet and take minimal time (typically no more than a couple to a few weeks) off work in order to secure my career. Running a home daycare is a very physically and mentally straining career and for that reason alone I would not continue to do what I do if I had to add an unstable income into the mix as well. I am in a large city and can typically fill any vacancies I have within a week of finding out I have one and I get one months notice of termination so itís very rare that I am down a child. As far as I am concerned childcare in not expensive at all. I charge a flat rate of $650/month for a full time child of any age. On the average 22 work day month I make $29.55/day per child. The average child is with me from 7:30am - 5:00pm per day so if you break the fee down to an hourly rate families are paying $3.11 an hour for someone else to care for their children. Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.
If you really break things down and you think about it, if families are saving $200/month on their grocery bills not having to feed their children 3/4 of the time out of their own pockets and $100/month on utility bills not having to use their utitilites as often at $650/month in childcare fees they are really only paying $350/month out of their pocket extra for someone else to care for their children.
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Willow 06:51 AM 11-26-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
i respect your point of view and understand you dont want to feel convicted about getting paid for leave. That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used. In a way the slot we sell for our child care service is simulare to an insurance policy. A agreement that under certian terms and conditions you will recieve childcare. If a insurance company relize it is not in there best interest to cover every car accident of their policy holders or refund the money paid for each month you donít get in a accident and even create regulations in their contracts so that they can realistically provide a service with out going bankrupt why shouldnt we. It bussiness and as small bussiness owner we are more vonerable then a corperation if big bussiness think its wise then surely we cant afford to run our bussiness like that. What happen when the un expected happens for example: A death in the family, your own sick child ect life is to unpridictable to have your money unpredictable too. Why put your self in position where if something where to happen you got to decide can afford to loose the money over it we have overhead cost to think about and family responsibilty so if a crisis does arise at lease give yor self one less thing to worry about. Its good you have so much compassion for your clients and their interest im pretty sure that is one of the reasons why they choose you but there are many ways to show your apreciation and compassion for them besides shorting your self.

For each occupation you listed I could list 10 more that DON'T get paid when they don't work. You also aren't comparing apples to apples. In regards to an insurance policy though specifically....although a piece of paper stating a conglomerate of consumers will pay out if someone wrecks your car is nice...that policy is available 24/7/365...for one - we as daycare providers are not and two - if the policy were for whatever reason to become unavailable and we had to pay someone else for coverage we would ABSOLUTELY NOT be expected to continue paying the original premiums on top of the new premiums. That also has nothing to do with the employees that write those policies. I know this because it's exactly what my mother in law does (after retiring from doing daycare for nearly 30 years). She's paid a menial hourly wage, then commissions. You ARE using the car insurance every day, even if your car is just sitting there it's protected and the policy is being used. You however AREN'T using her services everyday. If you had to pay her every single day regardless of whether she was working or not your insurance premiums would be so sky high they would be near if not completely unaffordable.

So I'm sorry, but that's a moot point. Just because there are some occupations out there that do charge across the board whether they are actually providing a service or not, doesn't mean they all should be that way. If they were life would be so incredibly expensive none of us could afford to live.



And I have no idea why everyone assumes I am "shorting" my family. Everyone keeps bringing that up and I can't seem to make sense of it.

I am far from short of anything in life.

Without charging my parents for time I don't work I still have plenty to pay my bills, contribute to my savings, my children's savings, my 401K and have money left over for fun. We own our own vehicles, our own (beautiful newer) home, live on 48 acres in the country with 3 ponds, 9 pets (including a horse that eats just like the saying goes) and we have loads of "toys." We may still have to save up for things like Christmas but that's hardly suffering.

I plan for the unexpected. Everyone should. Just because my family endures a hardship doesn't mean that hardship should be passed on to someone else outside of my family because things get a little tough.

I am not sure why everyone assumes because I charge hourly and only for the time I'm actually working that my family is dirt floor poor and my children must be starving. I'm so tired of people telling me I should bill like I'm a major corporation....all the while expressing their stress and discontent with how it's tough to make their own ends meet......and people seriously wonder why that is? I personally believe that's why it's tough. Because this country has taken a turn towards living a life of entitlements. I feel I am doing my part not to contribute to that, and I'm raising my children the same way.


I am not greedy. I do not need more than I have in my life. I do my job well, I am well respected, and both myself and my daycare parents believe my policies are fair. It has nothing to do with compassion or appreciation for anyone else, it has to do with what I personally think is fair.

How anyone can peg that "shorting" anyone is beyond my comprehension.
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Willow 07:08 AM 11-26-2012
Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.

I am on a food program and actually MAKE money on the meals I feed my daycare children.

I also get to deduct every single household expense I have under the sun on my taxes...not limited to electricity, heating expenses, the mortgage, house repairs, improvements and maintenance, the gas I put in my vehicle, my telephone and internet expenses, my furniture, the gas I put into my lawn mower, my lawn mower itself etc etc etc etc etc........(we have a well so water isn't an expense for us but it would be tax deductible if it were)....my daycare parents receive none of those perks.

It more than evens out in my favor but I'm not sure how things work in Canada.

The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home. I would not hold any job that made me feel that way. No one is saying you should feel bad charging the way you do, but it seems like even with that as your incentive you still don't at all feel that things are in your favor or even remotely fair.


I make far less than $3.11/hour/child but using that number - US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. If you don't think some parents dishing out nearly HALF of their income just for child care is expensive.....could you make ends meet if you only brought home a whopping grand total of $4.14 an hour (even less when you figure they have to put gas in the tank to get there, additional vehicle maintenance, have a work wardrobe to maintain etc.). I know I couldn't....
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Angelwings36 07:42 AM 11-26-2012
Originally Posted by Willow:
I am on a food program and actually MAKE money on the meals I feed my daycare children.

I also get to deduct every single household expense I have under the sun on my taxes...not limited to electricity, heating expenses, the mortgage, house repairs, improvements and maintenance, the gas I put in my vehicle, my telephone and internet expenses, my furniture, the gas I put into my lawn mower, my lawn mower itself etc etc etc etc etc........(we have a well so water isn't an expense for us but it would be tax deductible if it were)....my daycare parents receive none of those perks.

It more than evens out in my favor but I'm not sure how things work in Canada.

The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home. I would not hold any job that made me feel that way. No one is saying you should feel bad charging the way you do, but it seems like even with that as your incentive you still don't at all feel that things are in your favor or even remotely fair.


I make far less than $3.11/hour/child but using that number - US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. If you don't think some parents dishing out nearly HALF of their income just for child care is expensive.....could you make ends meet if you only brought home a whopping grand total of $4.14 an hour (even less when you figure they have to put gas in the tank to get there, additional vehicle maintenance, have a work wardrobe to maintain etc.). I know I couldn't....

Willow, I have been following this thread since the day that it was originally posted and I have seen through out the entire thread that you have gotten defensive towards any provider that feels that they are entitled to paid holidays and have time and time again defended yourself, whether or not a provider was specifically referring to you, on your own beliefs. On post #59 you made it very clear that you have plenty of money to pay your bills, contribute to your savings, your childrenís savings, your 401K and have money left over for fun. You stated you own your own vehicles, you own a beautiful newer home, live on 48 acres in the country with 3 ponds, 9 pets (including a horse that eats like the saying goes) and you have loads of toys. You are in a great financial situation if all of the above is true. However, not all the providers on this site come close to being in the financial situation that you are in. I am 27 years old and we will not own our own home until January 2013 and the house that we are buying is a 1967 house. Although the home has been totally renovated and is well taken care of, it is not anywhere close to a new home. Yet the home will still cost us 1/3rd of a million dollars to mortgage. Our house will sit on a teeny tiny little lot in the city verses the acres that your home sits on. We own one vehicle that is paid for but itís a small truck so we will have to go for a second auto loan next year as our family will be expanding in July. We have enough money to pay our bills and have just started contributing to a retirement fund, although we have no savings for our children yet.

I am not on a food program so all the food that I buy for the daycare comes out of my own pocket or essentially the fees that I am paid to care for the children. And yes I can deduct every single household expense on my income tax but in the end I still end up paying in taxes to the government which also comes out of the fees I am paid to watch children, where as most families that bring their children to me to care for will get money back on their taxes even though they paid less in their house hold expenses.

I am on my feet for 9.5 hours a day, lifting, bending and crawling about. I deal with mental stress on a regular basis from parentís who think that they should be the oneís that run the show. I have these children for more hours in their first five years of their lives then their parents ever do and most of my parents will not bat an eye to take a day off of work and still bring their children to me. My body and my mind take a large toll within my career. If you feel that this truth makes me seem resentful then that is your opinion and you can keep it. This is just simply how it is for me.

Do you think that if I didnít enjoy being surrounded by little children that I would continue to run my daycare business year after year? Do I have to enjoy and agree with every area of my career in order to not be resentful? Do you never have a problem with your business, with a parent? Itís true I would not continue to run a daycare if my income was unstable but that doesnít mean that I donít enjoy spending my time with my daycare children. In the end I am like the rest of the population and I have to pay my bills too. It should not make me a bad person to state that I should be entitled to a stable pay check in order to support my family as this is something I feel that I deserve. The points that I made above regarding the price of daycare where points made to support my decision in charging for paid holidays. I donít expect you to understand that as itís clear that you are very set in your ways and that no one elseís opinion are relevant if they donít fall in line with yours.

Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.
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Willow 08:49 AM 11-26-2012
Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
I donít expect you to understand that as itís clear that you are very set in your ways and that no one elseís opinion are relevant if they donít fall in line with yours.
Show me where I ever once said anything offensive about your choice and I'll show you 10 where someone said something offensive about mine.

Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.
That's an incredibly offensive statement.....but I'll run with it.

An exact parallel one could argue - if I can't afford to run my business without charging for services I'm not providing then should I be running it at all?


Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
I am on my feet for 9.5 hours a day, lifting, bending and crawling about. I deal with mental stress on a regular basis from parentís who think that they should be the oneís that run the show. I have these children for more hours in their first five years of their lives then their parents ever do and most of my parents will not bat an eye to take a day off of work and still bring their children to me. My body and my mind take a large toll within my career. If you feel that this truth makes me seem resentful then that is your opinion and you can keep it. This is just simply how it is for me.
Perspective is the key here.

There are providers who would look at what they do and describe it just as you did in your above.

Then there are providers who would look at it and describe it like this:

I am blessed to have gotten the opportunity to work from home thereby affording my own children the opportunity to have their mother home 10 hours a day instead of having to work outside of the home and away from them those 10 hours. The mental and physical stresses of my job remind me I am ALIVE and I am thankful to God for that blessing each and every day. My daycare parents sometimes need guidance that I usually am able to assist them with and that makes me feel capable and talented. Unfortunately not every parent is cut out to stay at home, and sometimes circumstances don't even allow it....FORTUNATELY though, I am blessed enough to give all the kids in my care, the kids I grow to love, a safe, enriching and fun place to spend that time. I know they are lucky to have me and my home.

I choose to describe my career, my purpose in life, the latter way. And if I heard someone describing it as you did I am going to assume they're not very happy.

It is my opinion that providers who can pick out the good over focusing on the bad won't burn out nearly as fast or suffer in the meantime.

My husband I'd venture to say works much much harder than I do but would never describe his job as such because he loves it. If he didn't, if I didn't, then I could definitely see expecting to be compensated more.


I hope that clarifies where I was coming from with my comment.





Originally Posted by Angelwings36:
Do you think that if I didnít enjoy being surrounded by little children that I would continue to run my daycare business year after year? Do I have to enjoy and agree with every area of my career in order to not be resentful? Do you never have a problem with your business, with a parent?
Maybe - lots of people stick with jobs they're unhappy with for many reasons.

No - but if you don't enjoy and agree with *most* of them then I'd say that's likely true. You haven't said one positive thing about what you do, which is why you've given that impression.

Yes - all the time! I don't think it's possible to run a business and work with people and NOT hit blips sometimes! But that would never be my focus. If that's all I could talk about in regards to what I do then I'd change it pronto. Life is too short to feel like you're getting the short end of the stick.

I like the phrase "If you don't like where you are then change it. You are not a tree." It got me through my divorce due to alcoholism and subsequent domestic abuse at the age of 27 and losing my house all while trying to care for my two kids on my own. I've been at the bottom and even then I stuck by my beliefs. Even then I remained optimistic and never would have described my job the way you do. Even when faced with the crummiest parents. I take a deep breath, and change my perspective. It can offer an amazing uplift to your life if you can
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Blackcat31 09:03 AM 11-26-2012
I think it is awesome that everyone is "discussing" their opions and choices as the whole point to this thread was hearing and finding out about other providers policies for taking time off.

However, I do think this thread has taken a turn and is becoming much more than the OP probably intended.

I am NOT aiming this at anyone in particular but I think that anyone who has already answered or responded to the OP should probably leave it at that and not let the thread get taken in another direction.

I kind of feel as though it is on the verge of personal attacks and I really hate to see providers do that when we all can agree that we are the bosses, owners and decision makers within our own businesses and it IS ok to agree to disagree.

There is NO one right or wrong way to do this. We all approach, implement and apply the ideas, ethics, morals and policies that we see fit intoour programs and that is fantastic that we live in a country that allows us to do so.

I just think "it might be time to stop poking the dog" as my grandma used to say.
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Angelwings36 09:30 AM 11-26-2012
The question I was answering, Willow, was what I do about my vacation and do I take it paid or not and why? I explained to the OP my decision for taking my vacations as paid. You explained to the OP your decision for taking your vacations unpaid and why. Our opinions didnít match, donít have to match and that is fine.

Originally Posted by Willow:
Show me where I ever once said anything offensive about your choice and I'll show you 10 where someone said something offensive about mine.
This is what you said to me regarding my choice:
The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home.

Willow, you made this statement in regards to the reasons why I chose to have paid holidays within my business, which was the choice I was trying to defend. I donít care for you to make a point of showing me 10 statements that someone said something offensive to you about your choice, I just want you to specifically respect mine even though it may be different then yours and not try to break it apart and make it look like itís an awful choice.

I made the following comment:
Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.

To which you responded;

Originally Posted by Willow:
an incredibly offensive statement.....but I'll run with it.

An exact parallel one could argue - if I can't afford to run my business without charging for services I'm not providing then should I be running it at all?
Why was my statement incredibly offensive? Do you agree that two unemployed individuals should have a child and then sit on welfare? How is this much different then having a child in a situation where they can not afford to provide all the needs for that child? I understands that some families have unexpected pregnancies when they are not ready for them but those that donít should be preparing for a family, which also means insuring they have the finances to support a family unit.

I donít charge for services within my business I charge for slots billed on a monthly basis. My business is based on space availability and not my own availability so your argument would not apply to me.


Originally Posted by Willow:
Perspective is the key here.

There are providers who would look at what they do and describe it just as you did in your above.

Then there are providers who would look at it and describe it like this:

I am blessed to have gotten the opportunity to work from home thereby affording my own children the opportunity to have their mother home 10 hours a day instead of having to work outside of the home and away from them those 10 hours. The mental and physical stresses of my job remind me I am ALIVE and I am thankful to God for that blessing each and every day. My daycare parents sometimes need guidance that I usually am able to assist them with and that makes me feel capable and talented. Unfortunately not every parent is cut out to stay at home, and sometimes circumstances don't even allow it....FORTUNATELY though, I am blessed enough to give all the kids in my care, the kids I grow to love, a safe, enriching and fun place to spend that time. I know they are lucky to have me and my home.

I choose to describe my career, my purpose in life, the latter way. And if I heard someone describing it as you did I am going to assume they're not very happy.

It is my opinion that providers who can pick out the good over focusing on the bad won't burn out nearly as fast or suffer in the meantime.

My husband I'd venture to say works much much harder than I do but would never describe his job as such because he loves it. If he didn't, if I didn't, then I could definitely see expecting to be compensated more.
I like to think that I am a provider that would describe what I do in both the way I did in my last posts and in the way you did here. Just because I use one description one time and the opposite description another time doesnít mean I can not pick out the good over focusing on the bad. I used the description I did, which you would consider a negative description to better explain my choice to charge for holidays. You used the description you did, which you would consider a positive description to better explain your choice to not charge for holidays. Neither description is wrong or inaccurate.

Maybe - lots of people stick with jobs they're unhappy with for many reasons.

Originally Posted by Willow:
haven't said one positive thing about what you do, which is why you've given that impression.
I made it pretty clear that I enjoy spending time with my daycare children, which would be one positive thing about what I do.

Letís just agree to disagree.
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thatdivalady 08:38 PM 11-27-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used.
Just playing devil's advocate here *smile* But when my cable shorts out I receive a credit on my bill. Same thing with some of the other services you mentioned. If THEY are unable to provide the service they do give a credit. Your insurances are always available so I'm not sure that fits in with unavailability. If I take a summer vacation, my regular house is still available. You may or may not use them but they are still available. When I leave my daycare to go on vacation and do not have coverage, my services are not available. I don't charge my families for this during those times.

Someone mentioned a line in my previous post about me not being able to stomach charging when I am unavailable. It doesn't imply that I feel like I'm cheating the family but I do serve single mothers who do not have anyone available to watch their children if I or my staff are off. So yes, THEY would have to pay double -- my rate and another provider's rate if I did charge them for vacations. Having been in that position myself, I will not do it to someone else. But that's my option and a perk to owning my own business, right?

Keep in mind that my rates are high and again... I used Tom Copeland's method of charging higher rates year round to compensate for my vacation. Now I will end with the fact that I see both sides, I have previously chosen mine and I'm quite happy there. More power to everyone for running their business they way THEY see fit!
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littlemissmuffet 06:49 AM 11-28-2012
I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5Ė10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!
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SunshineMama 07:00 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5Ė10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!
It's crazy! In the US, workers are overworked and underpaid. It is no wonder that even though we are a developed nation, we have such high illnesses and the family structure is falling apart. Humans were not put on earth for the sole purpose of working.
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littlemissmuffet 07:00 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by :
It's crazy! In the US, workers are overworked and underpaid. It is no wonder that even though we are a developed nation, we have such high illnesses and the family structure is falling apart. Humans were not put on earth for the sole purpose of working.
Absolutely! I'm actually quite upset about this and am having a hard time believing this! How can one of the wealthiestcountires in the world treat their people like this?
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Country Kids 07:02 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by littlemissmuffet:
I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5Ė10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!
Wait-everyone gets that off in Canada (retails, restaurants, things like that) also?

Remember we also only get 6 weeks maternity leave (unpaid) so alot of people will save vacations and such so that they can get some sort of pay during that time.

I worked in the outside work force for about 10 years and never took a vacation. I think the place I worked the longest 5-6 years offered paid vacatons but we were only closed 2 holidays (Thanksgiving/Christmas).

So are you surprised because now knowing alot of our parents don't probably have the time off like you thought or just surprised over all?
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Angelwings36 07:27 AM 11-28-2012
Starting off with the basics, every province in Canada entitles an employee to vacation time after working for 12 consecutive months of employment. The amount of time off an employer must grant their employees is two weeks in every province apart from Saskatchewan (which offers 3 weeks) and Quebec (which offers one day per month).

In Saskatchewan, where I am from, after 10 years of employment employees get 4 weeks of paid vacation. My dad actually get 6 weeks of paid vacation at his job but it under a union and he has been there for 40 years.

Perhaps this is why I have no issue requesting paid holidays for myself.

It's so different through out the world.

We also get a full year of paid mat leave in Canada and it's rare that a child is accepted into daycare before 12 months because of this. Some places (especially centers) will not accept children into care until they are 18 months of age.
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Blackcat31 07:48 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Wait-everyone gets that off in Canada (retails, restaurants, things like that) also?

Remember we also only get 6 weeks maternity leave (unpaid) so alot of people will save vacations and such so that they can get some sort of pay during that time.

I worked in the outside work force for about 10 years and never took a vacation. I think the place I worked the longest 5-6 years offered paid vacatons but we were only closed 2 holidays (Thanksgiving/Christmas).

So are you surprised because now knowing alot of our parents don't probably have the time off like you thought or just surprised over all?
NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.
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Willow 07:49 AM 11-28-2012
Perhaps considering the vast differences now some of you can understand why it's not as cut and dry for American's.....many of whom are NOT entitled to all of those holidays off and paid....or a bunch of vacation time off and paid.....or maternity leave off and paid.....

Many many people receive NONE of those benefits.
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Country Kids 08:27 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.
Your second paragraph and last contridict each other. If there is the FMLA, why would your parents not be able to take time off? By law with the FMLA a employer can't say they can't take the time off. In fact, a employer shouldn't even be taking a woman back until the dr. releases them back to work after having a baby.

I'm done arguing the points here. My part of the country must be totally messed up because every time I post something, I'm bitten with something back on how that not how it is, my parents this/that/Value your business/I have never had that problem/etc. I don't think I'm contributing anything for others as no matter what I post, it doesn't seem correct.

What I write is from what I know, experienced personally and with parents. I have had four children (one with maternity leave-8 weeks unpaid), have a husband that has worked for a major corporation/state government and also many parents who have worked retail to government jobs. It varies widely what people receive for time off/paid or unpaid. No matter though, because I feel not matter how long this thread goes on, there will always be two sides. One side larger then the other but it will always be a divided, heated debate.
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Blackcat31 08:45 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by Country Kids:
Your second paragraph and last contritict each other. If there is the FMLA, why would your parents not be able to take time off? By law with the FMLA a employer can't say they can't take the time off. In fact, a employer shouldn't even be taking a woman back until the dr. releases them back to work after having a baby. .
Because the one mom I had could NOT afford to take any time off. She had her baby on Thursday night and went back to work on Monday. She had no time off accumulated. The FMLA allows people who can afford it to take time off without fear of losing their jobs.

I know that the general consenses says that women should be able to stay home for 6 weeks, but I don't think there is a law saying that they have to or that they should. The daycare mom I am talking about had her doctor sign off that she could go back so it wasn't up to her employer.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
I'm done arguing the points here. My part of the country must be totally messed up because every time I post something, I'm bitten with something back on how that not how it is, my parents this/that/Value your business/I have never had that problem/etc. I don't think I'm contributing anything for others as no matter what I post, it doesn't seem correct. .
Your comments have a lot of value...you just need to word them as your own situation or your own experiences. I commented because you posted using the words "ALL" and "our" as if you were speaking for everyone.

Your part of the country isn't messed up....just different than mine. Yours might be the same as a million other places, but not the same as some others.

Originally Posted by Country Kids:
What I write is from what I know, experienced personally and with parents. I have had four children (one with maternity leave-8 weeks unpaid), have a husband that has worked for a major corporation/state government and also many parents who have worked retail to government jobs. It varies widely what people receive for time off/paid or unpaid. No matter though, because I feel not matter how long this thread goes on, there will always be two sides. One side larger then the other but it will always be a divided, heated debate.
Yes, this will always be a debatable topic because everyone is different. I only responded to your post because of your wording. You said "ALL our parents" as if you were speaking for everyone, so I wanted to clarify that I was not in that category.

I was speaking from MY perspective and not saying anything about anyone else's situation....that was really what I was getting at.

The heated discussions and debates stem from blanket statements...which several providers pointed out.

Your second paragraph, where you speak from your personal perspective is not at all disagreeable as you are speaking from YOUR experiences.

That leaves little room for deabte or rebuttal.
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Country Kids 08:57 AM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.
Saying "alot of parents" is a blanket statement is not making a blanket statement about ALL daycare parents. I said "ALOT" not "ALL"-big difference.

I've know many people over my life time so when I'm writing I'm not always writing aboiut childcare parents.

You said that I was using the words "all" and "our" as blankets statements. I didn't use the word all in the last two posts I think your talking about and I don't know how using "our" is a blanket statment when you read how I wrote it. Sorry, I guess I'm not a versed on the English language as I should be.
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melilley 02:08 PM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by LK5kids:
I used to give five free days. I read here where someone's policy is 5 free days if child attends five days a week, four free if they attend four days, three free if they attend three days, etc. I think this is a great idea and I would not have thought of it. So that's what I do now. At some point I'm getting rid of free days all together.

I live in a low income and rural county. I'm sure centers in urban areas charge whether kids attend or not. One area center (not a family child care center) gives families two weeks off! That's crazy!

I don't charge for holidays, sick days or my vacations or days off. I feel I'm self employed and need to budget in for that. If I owned a floral shop and closed for a holiday or had to have someone work because I was sick I'd bring in less $$$.

I am a professional in every sense of the word. I have a B.A. Early childhood/elementary Ed. I've taught preschool and kindergarten, etc., and years of experience in the early childhood field.

That said I do understand the advice to not undersell yourself and to take care of
the business side of your child care service.

I charge on the upper end for my area and I won't work for less. I wil never allow a family to attend if they are not up-to-date with payments, I charge a small extra fee for preschool activities,
I won't take more than one infant and one toddler, as personally i can't deal with more (the rest are preschool age), etc.

I have a large policy parent handbook and go over carefully before parents enroll.

I hire someone to come in twice a week for few hours so I can go out to eat with a friend, go down to the local coffe shop and chill out, etc.

Those are just a few ways I take care of myself and my business.
If you don't mind me asking, I see that you hired someone to come in twice a week, how did you find that person? I have thought of doing that, but wasn't sure if anyone would actually only come in a couple days a week. Also, I wouldn't even know what to pay them.
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Crystal 02:21 PM 11-28-2012
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Because the one mom I had could NOT afford to take any time off. She had her baby on Thursday night and went back to work on Monday. She had no time off accumulated. The FMLA allows people who can afford it to take time off without fear of losing their jobs.

I know that the general consenses says that women should be able to stay home for 6 weeks, but I don't think there is a law saying that they have to or that they should. The daycare mom I am talking about had her doctor sign off that she could go back so it wasn't up to her employer.



Your comments have a lot of value...you just need to word them as your own situation or your own experiences. I commented because you posted using the words "ALL" and "our" as if you were speaking for everyone.

To be fair, she said "alot of our parents" She WAS speaking of her own experiences.

Your part of the country isn't messed up....just different than mine. Yours might be the same as a million other places, but not the same as some others.



Yes, this will always be a debatable topic because everyone is different. I only responded to your post because of your wording. You said "ALL our parents" as if you were speaking for everyone, so I wanted to clarify that I was not in that category.

Again, she said "alot of our parents" I haven't seen where she said "all of our parents"

I was speaking from MY perspective and not saying anything about anyone else's situation....that was really what I was getting at.

I think she was as well.

The heated discussions and debates stem from blanket statements...which several providers pointed out.

Your second paragraph, where you speak from your personal perspective is not at all disagreeable as you are speaking from YOUR experiences.

That leaves little room for deabte or rebuttal.


I am having a hard time understanding WHY this is so debatable. What is the big deal? Som,e charge, some don't, everyone does what works best for them and their own families as well as their daycare families. Why is everyone taking things so personally?
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Country Kids 02:36 PM 11-28-2012
Oh my goodness=I couldn't really understand why my wording was causing an uproar and I have figured it out.

I wasn't even talking about childcare parents. I was talking about parents in the U.S., not childcare!

I was actually commenting to littlemissmuffet and the whole U.S. holiday thing she was talking about. So my comments were more in general about parents across the nation.

[Just to clarify I did say "alot" not "all"
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