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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Bringing Aggressive Boy On Days Off
chickenfarms 09:50 AM 01-28-2013
I have a family that has a 3 1/2 yr old boy and a 2 yr old girl and I have been caring for them for 3 years. The boy has been really aggressive lately. Within the last month he has broken a child's glasses and last Friday he intentionally kicked a baby for no reason. (Not that there ever is a reason for a child to kick a baby!) The parents are apologetic for his behavior and state that they have tried different things at home. It is obvious from drop off and pick up times that he rules the roost and they just give him whatever he wants to appease him.

The kids come 2 days a week and her schedule at work changes so some of the days the mom brings them she has off work. I have a 2 day minimum to hold the spot for them, so have been ok with them coming when she does not work. However, I don't like watching kids when their parents are at home and there is not a reason for the kids to be away from them.

The dad thinks he needs medication and has ADHD, but in my opinion he is not hyper and has no trouble paying attention. They are taking him to a counselor today for advise.

In light if recent events I suggested that I waive the 2 day minimum and that they only bring the kids when they are working. The mom said she likes her time alone, because she already spends 4 days a week with them. I am having trouble understanding her mentality and find it problematic that I am here struggling to keep him under control while she is at home.

She is quite sensitive and I am not sure how to kindly tell her that she is the parent and needs to spend the extra time with her own child to deal with his aggression. Any ideas on how to handle this gently, but firmly?
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cheerfuldom 10:12 AM 01-28-2013
are you sure you even want to take care of these kids at all?
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Play Care 10:31 AM 01-28-2013
I agree with the pp.
Take the fact you don't agree with providing care while parents are home out of it -you have a child with aggressive behavior and mom is so exhausted by it that she sends him to you because she can't deal with it...Leaving you to deal with in and several other children at the same time... My conversation to mom would be this "Due to dc boys aggressive behavior I will only be able to provide care on the days you are actually working, I understand if this does not work for you and you can give me your two week notice if that's the case. In the meanwhile we need to be very clear about what interventions WE will be doing so that this behavior does not continue."
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CedarCreek 11:00 AM 01-28-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I agree with the pp.
Take the fact you don't agree with providing care while parents are home out of it -you have a child with aggressive behavior and mom is so exhausted by it that she sends him to you because she can't deal with it...Leaving you to deal with in and several other children at the same time... My conversation to mom would be this "Due to dc boys aggressive behavior I will only be able to provide care on the days you are actually working, I understand if this does not work for you and you can give me your two week notice if that's the case. In the meanwhile we need to be very clear about what interventions WE will be doing so that this behavior does not continue."

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daycarediva 12:13 PM 01-28-2013
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I agree with the pp.
Take the fact you don't agree with providing care while parents are home out of it -you have a child with aggressive behavior and mom is so exhausted by it that she sends him to you because she can't deal with it...Leaving you to deal with in and several other children at the same time... My conversation to mom would be this "Due to dc boys aggressive behavior I will only be able to provide care on the days you are actually working, I understand if this does not work for you and you can give me your two week notice if that's the case. In the meanwhile we need to be very clear about what interventions WE will be doing so that this behavior does not continue."


I would want a behavioral plan written up. I would document, document, document and if it didn't improve, I would term.

Kicking a BABY? That's way over the top! I have a child with adhd and he is sweet as pie, he wouldn't hurt anyone. It sounds like they are making excuses for their lack of discipline.
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chickenfarms 01:27 PM 01-28-2013
You guys are the greatest! Sometimes we know what we need to do but it is good to hear it from someone else.

Here was my response: (a little weak, but I was trying)

I do think it is best to keep the kids home when you are home. The more time you guys have to invest in his behavior at home the greater difference it will make when he is here. As his parents, you can give him that one on one time that he needs.
Just keep me informed of your new behavior plan at home so we can be consistent here.

Wish I would have seen the behavior plan first! I love it! I am going to see what their "counselor" said first and then draw one up. Brilliant!

Lots of excuses for sure...
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cheerfuldom 02:11 PM 01-28-2013
Originally Posted by chickenfarms:
You guys are the greatest! Sometimes we know what we need to do but it is good to hear it from someone else.

Here was my response: (a little weak, but I was trying)

I do think it is best to keep the kids home when you are home. The more time you guys have to invest in his behavior at home the greater difference it will make when he is here. As his parents, you can give him that one on one time that he needs.
Just keep me informed of your new behavior plan at home so we can be consistent here.

Wish I would have seen the behavior plan first! I love it! I am going to see what their "counselor" said first and then draw one up. Brilliant!

Lots of excuses for sure...
to be honest, this is too weak. you already can see that mom is losing control and more than ready to hoist child on you whenever possible. you aren't sending her a clear message about your business practices. if you say this, I bet 99% sure that nothing is going to change. she will know that you prefer he stay home when she is home but you arent insisting on it nor are you insisting on a deadline for progress or behavior plan. there are no clear boundaries set with the conversation you have posted.

you need to decide

do you take kids when parents are not working?
when do you want a behavior plan in place? clear instructions from the parents about how they are dealing with this at home and done in a way that can be replicated at daycare
when do you need to see progress by?
when will you term as a last resort?

to me, what you are planning on telling her leaves her more than enough room to do everything the way she is currently doing it!
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Blackcat31 02:31 PM 01-28-2013
Originally Posted by chickenfarms:
I have a family that has a 3 1/2 yr old boy and a 2 yr old girl and I have been caring for them for 3 years. The boy has been really aggressive lately. Within the last month he has broken a child's glasses and last Friday he intentionally kicked a baby for no reason. (Not that there ever is a reason for a child to kick a baby!) The parents are apologetic for his behavior and state that they have tried different things at home. It is obvious from drop off and pick up times that he rules the roost and they just give him whatever he wants to appease him.

The kids come 2 days a week and her schedule at work changes so some of the days the mom brings them she has off work. I have a 2 day minimum to hold the spot for them, so have been ok with them coming when she does not work. However, I don't like watching kids when their parents are at home and there is not a reason for the kids to be away from them.

The dad thinks he needs medication and has ADHD, but in my opinion he is not hyper and has no trouble paying attention. They are taking him to a counselor today for advise.

In light if recent events I suggested that I waive the 2 day minimum and that they only bring the kids when they are working. The mom said she likes her time alone, because she already spends 4 days a week with them. I am having trouble understanding her mentality and find it problematic that I am here struggling to keep him under control while she is at home.

She is quite sensitive and I am not sure how to kindly tell her that she is the parent and needs to spend the extra time with her own child to deal with his aggression. Any ideas on how to handle this gently, but firmly?
First off, kicking a baby would mean immeditate termination here. NOT cool! YOU have an obligation to your other families in care so that they are not injured or harmed by another child.

I wouldn't give a rat's behind if the mother of this DCB is sensitive or not....kicking a baby is beyond ok or within the normal range of behavior for a 3.5 yr old.

Despite dad's wish for an easy answer medicating their child is not going to help. Medication ONLY works in conjunction with behavioral manangement.

If I were you, I would "suggest" or ask for anything from these parents. What I would do is INSIST they get their child on some sort of behavior plan and that REQUIRE that they share this plan with you. The plan must include consequences for unwanted behavior.

When the child does not comply, then I would call the parents immediately for pick up.

I would also not ask or suggest the parent keep them home when they are not at work but would again INSIST.

DCM says she enjoys/likes her time alone? I am sorry, but that just makes me believe that she is not at all taking any of this child's behavior as serious. HER child is in need of some attention and he is showing it in more ways than one. It is time she step up and put her child's needs ahead of her own.

Chickenfarms.....I am sorry you are dealing with this but don't let anyone convince you this is YOUR problem to solve. It is not.

Hang in there....it IS hard to deal with parents who don't want to recognize or admit that their child has issues of any kind. It is much easier to let YOU figure it out and honestly, that is not fair. Nor is it your job to do so.
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chickenfarms 08:53 PM 01-28-2013
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
First off, kicking a baby would mean immeditate termination here. NOT cool! YOU have an obligation to your other families in care so that they are not injured or harmed by another child.

I wouldn't give a rat's behind if the mother of this DCB is sensitive or not....kicking a baby is beyond ok or within the normal range of behavior for a 3.5 yr old.

Despite dad's wish for an easy answer medicating their child is not going to help. Medication ONLY works in conjunction with behavioral manangement.

If I were you, I would "suggest" or ask for anything from these parents. What I would do is INSIST they get their child on some sort of behavior plan and that REQUIRE that they share this plan with you. The plan must include consequences for unwanted behavior.

When the child does not comply, then I would call the parents immediately for pick up.

I would also not ask or suggest the parent keep them home when they are not at work but would again INSIST.

DCM says she enjoys/likes her time alone? I am sorry, but that just makes me believe that she is not at all taking any of this child's behavior as serious. HER child is in need of some attention and he is showing it in more ways than one. It is time she step up and put her child's needs ahead of her own.

Chickenfarms.....I am sorry you are dealing with this but don't let anyone convince you this is YOUR problem to solve. It is not.

Hang in there....it IS hard to deal with parents who don't want to recognize or admit that their child has issues of any kind. It is much easier to let YOU figure it out and honestly, that is not fair. Nor is it your job to do so.
I like you already! I had actually sent her 3 other strongly worded emails prior to the one I sent, that turned her in to a mess, so that is why I was going for a gentler approach.

She actually text me tonight and asked if she could bring a list of things they were working on for my house that she was going to include in a reward chart at home. She said the counseling session went well and that he is going back next week. I told her I am going to keep a praise and bad behavior report so that we could communicate more clearly on what his days are really like here.

Good grief...I hate drama. Hopefully they will follow through with whatever their plan is, although I am questioning the use of a reward chart. Charts are fine when you have good behavior mixed with some bad choices, but I don't know that me telling him that he didn't earn a sticker for a chart he has at home is going to do much good. We tried a jelly bean system-each kid starts with 5 and if you make a bad choice you lose one- and he didn't "get it" or care. The kid never had any to take home at the end of the day. Time out is ridiculous for behavior like this. There are days that he ends up just sitting on the couch because he just can't get along with anyone and I can't just keep putting him in the corner.

We shall see, but I think if I keep a detailed log---more work for me--- it will help them realize how bad things are. I partially blame myself for not "tattling" on more things, I suppose, but I am always honest and tell them if he had a rough day and always share the worst offenses. The kicker is, his dad is a correctional officer.

At least they actually sought help from someone. I suggested some books and many other things, but nothing seemed to stick. They both do shift work and have crazy schedules and unfortunately I think that is taking its toll. I did shift work before when my older girls were little, but stopped when my youngest was a few months old because it was just not going to work anymore.

Thanks for the input
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