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Baby Beluga 09:44 AM 09-20-2018
At what point do you implement "one and done?"

DCB turns 3 in November. He is hands down my most difficult DCB but lately he has amped his antics up. Mostly becoming physical with the other children.

Yesterday he pushed another child with such force that the child fell.

He peels paint off the walls if allowed to sit near a wall. When not peeling paint he picks at his fingernails, pulls strings out of his socks and pulls at the skin on his lip. While the fingernail/socks/skin issue is not really an issue, it's just an insight to this child's personality)

He bangs toys on shelves and walls, after being told not to and modeled how to play.

He often does not show an understanding of personal space. He puts his feet on other children. He will intentionally block other children when they are trying to move. Think like in basketball where you block someone with your body.

He grabs things out of others hands.

What do I do here? I understand the grabbing can be normal at this age. So although annoying, I get it. However, the feet, pushing and not giving personal space is so frustrating. Especially to the other children. They are old enough to say "NO, DCB, STOP" and they do. But he almost takes it as a personal challenge to continue when someone says stop.

Yes, I have a LOT of outdoor play. And I break up our day with dance breaks and action/movement songs. I also model nice hands, gentle touches, how to play without banging on the walls and shelves and we read "super friends and how to deal with anger constantly." We also do a lot of sensory play.

I do implement T.O with him and I when I do he stomps away, crosses his arms, makes a face and then throws his body on the floor. He does the same at home.

What do I do here? My biggest concern is him touching other children. He is my only child who aggressively touches others and it is not fair nor safe for this to continue. Do I implement one and and done where the first occasion that he touches another child he is in his own center for the remainder of the day? FWIW: being in his own center means he is own his own rug (5x7 or larger) with his own toys/manipulatives out of reach of other children. He can still see and talk to others, he is just out of reach of them.
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Ariana 10:07 AM 09-20-2018
Is there a currency stronger than a time out? Time outs didn’t work for my violent 3 year old DCB. I had to send him to his bed. I gave a warning and then on his bed. I only had to do it physically once and threaten a handful of times. It worked so quickly. But this kid hated his bed so this is why it worked. Absolutely nothing else I did worked. I am not ususally one to put a kid on their bed as punishment but it was either that or terminate. If the mat is working then I would go to it every single time. He is okd enough to know better.

Desperate times call for desperate measures when it comes to violence I think.
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Gemma 10:13 AM 09-20-2018
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga:
At what point do you implement "one and done?"

DCB turns 3 in November. He is hands down my most difficult DCB but lately he has amped his antics up. Mostly becoming physical with the other children.

Yesterday he pushed another child with such force that the child fell.

He peels paint off the walls if allowed to sit near a wall. When not peeling paint he picks at his fingernails, pulls strings out of his socks and pulls at the skin on his lip. While the fingernail/socks/skin issue is not really an issue, it's just an insight to this child's personality)

He bangs toys on shelves and walls, after being told not to and modeled how to play.

He often does not show an understanding of personal space. He puts his feet on other children. He will intentionally block other children when they are trying to move. Think like in basketball where you block someone with your body.

He grabs things out of others hands.

What do I do here? I understand the grabbing can be normal at this age. So although annoying, I get it. However, the feet, pushing and not giving personal space is so frustrating. Especially to the other children. They are old enough to say "NO, DCB, STOP" and they do. But he almost takes it as a personal challenge to continue when someone says stop.

Yes, I have a LOT of outdoor play. And I break up our day with dance breaks and action/movement songs. I also model nice hands, gentle touches, how to play without banging on the walls and shelves and we read "super friends and how to deal with anger constantly." We also do a lot of sensory play.

I do implement T.O with him and I when I do he stomps away, crosses his arms, makes a face and then throws his body on the floor. He does the same at home.

What do I do here? My biggest concern is him touching other children. He is my only child who aggressively touches others and it is not fair nor safe for this to continue. Do I implement one and and done where the first occasion that he touches another child he is in his own center for the remainder of the day? FWIW: being in his own center means he is own his own rug (5x7 or larger) with his own toys/manipulatives out of reach of other children. He can still see and talk to others, he is just out of reach of them.
I wish I could help you, but I don't keep "violent" kids!
I've decided a long time ago, if I'm to do this job and save my sanity, I have no choice but to let whatever stresses me out, go.

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Cat Herder 10:36 AM 09-20-2018
If he is negatively affecting the majority of the other childrens day, the majority of the time, it is time for him to go.
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Baby Beluga 12:03 PM 09-20-2018
It is causing stress. Stress for me, and although I haven't seen "stress" from my other kids I have seen annoyance and frustration from them in regard to him. They don't really seem to play with him either. They will play with each other but tend to keep away from him. And these are 3 and 4 year olds so playing together is a big part of their day. DCB in question also tends to hoard toys and cover whatever he is doing whenever someone comes close to him.

I have tried his nap mat. Didn't work. This guy loves napping. He is usually my first one asleep and last one awake. Lights on, blinds open, vacuum running, other kids still awake...and he will pass out on his cot.

So far I have not found a currency for him. I will say he is given in to a LOT at home so I am sure that has to do with it. Today mom told him he needed to have gentle hands or he wouldn't get to play with a certain toy at pick up. This child isn't going to remember that for a 10 hour day.

As of right now, we were building with train tracks. He grabbed a train right out of the hands of another child who was holding and actively playing with it. I sent him to a rug with a center of his own. He has played happily, alone, ever since.
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Blackcat31 07:41 AM 09-21-2018
I had the same kid.

I tried to find the positives every day.
I role modeled, I partnered him up with others.
I rewarded good behavior, had consequences for the unwanted.
I used sticker charts, time out, removal of privileges and even called for pick up when things got really tough.
I tried extra naps, less, more hugs, tough love, you name it; we tried it.

I ended up having to let him go.

I couldn't take the stress of having to "manage" him all day every day. Sadly I didn't even realize how bad it was until he was absent for an entire week. A day here or there without him was nice but honestly any time any regular child is absent the day is different. This child ended up being absent a week and I was amazed at the difference in atmosphere, mood (my own and the other kids) as well as how much I looked forward to starting our day's activities that week.

That ^^ was an eye opener for sure! I decided right then he had to go. His mom was one of my first daycare kids. The child's grandmother is my aunt so it was hard to term but I finally realized I don't want to continue hating my job simply because I am biologically related to the source of my stress.
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LittleExplorers 08:02 AM 09-21-2018
Does your state offer any resources? Here we could call the Center for Inclusive Child Care. They help all different situations from health and safety to infant and toddler inclusion to special needs. They may have resources on their website too.

With that said, I had a little guy who was very aggressive, hitting, kicking, jumping off my table, throwing toys, etc. I let him go within 2 hours. Mom was not honest with me and the other children in my care were unsafe with his behaviors. I referred her to help me grow. I know it is more extreme than your little one, but sometimes they just aren't a good fit.
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e.j. 12:15 PM 09-21-2018
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga:
It is causing stress. Stress for me, and although I haven't seen "stress" from my other kids I have seen annoyance and frustration from them in regard to him. They don't really seem to play with him either. They will play with each other but tend to keep away from him.
You might be surprised to realize how stressed the other kids might be feeling. I had twins who behaved like the kid you're describing. I did everything I could think of to help turn their behavior around but nothing was working. I should have termed but dcm ended up enrolling them in preschool which saved me from having to do that. After they left, one of the other kids asked where they were and if they were coming back. I told the kids they weren't coming back and asked if they missed playing with them. I got a resounding, "No!" from the entire group. Thinking I was being funny, I said maybe they could come play sometime. Again, the group was very clear about not wanting that to happen. One kid even started to cry. I knew the twins had stressed me out but until I saw how my other kids reacted, I didn't realize how stressed they all were and how unfair I had been to them by keeping the twins on. I would have termed if I had known.
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kendallina 12:25 PM 09-21-2018
He sounds like he has a lot of sensory needs. If you are at a point of wanting to term, totally understand!

If not, I would give him a sensory area. Pintetest would have a lot of ideas. It sounds like you already do a lot of fun sensory stuff, which is good but he seems to need it all.the.time. I wonder if he'd benefit from weighted vest or blanket. Sensory bottles. Silly putty, rice table, sandbox, playdough. Bilibos, bean bag chair, etc might help this little guy. And, his own space . Obviously, you're not going to want to run out and buy all these things but it really seems like he could really use some help with these things.

How's his development otherwise?
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Baby Beluga 03:23 PM 09-21-2018
Originally Posted by kendallina:
He sounds like he has a lot of sensory needs. If you are at a point of wanting to term, totally understand!

If not, I would give him a sensory area. Pintetest would have a lot of ideas. It sounds like you already do a lot of fun sensory stuff, which is good but he seems to need it all.the.time. I wonder if he'd benefit from weighted vest or blanket. Sensory bottles. Silly putty, rice table, sandbox, playdough. Bilibos, bean bag chair, etc might help this little guy. And, his own space . Obviously, you're not going to want to run out and buy all these things but it really seems like he could really use some help with these things.

How's his development otherwise?
Developmentally he is okay. Speech is a little behind (he barely spoke at 2 years) but he has caught up nicely. His body movements and touching others makes me think he could benefit from a weighted vest or blanket. It is certainly something I could suggest to mom.

What boggles my mind is he plays SO WELL alone. He is peaceful, engaged, concentrating. Behavior is a big form of communication. Maybe he is communicating that he simply cant be near others right now?

Originally Posted by e.j.:
You might be surprised to realize how stressed the other kids might be feeling. I had twins who behaved like the kid you're describing. I did everything I could think of to help turn their behavior around but nothing was working. I should have termed but dcm ended up enrolling them in preschool which saved me from having to do that. After they left, one of the other kids asked where they were and if they were coming back. I told the kids they weren't coming back and asked if they missed playing with them. I got a resounding, "No!" from the entire group. Thinking I was being funny, I said maybe they could come play sometime. Again, the group was very clear about not wanting that to happen. One kid even started to cry. I knew the twins had stressed me out but until I saw how my other kids reacted, I didn't realize how stressed they all were and how unfair I had been to them by keeping the twins on. I would have termed if I had known.
This makes me sad. I hope mine aren't feeling this way and I am missing it.
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Unregistered 04:52 PM 09-21-2018
Originally Posted by Gemma:
I wish I could help you, but I don't keep "violent" kids!
I've decided a long time ago, if I'm to do this job and save my sanity, I have no choice but to let whatever stresses me out, go.
Same. Also, because I think parents need to learn this behavior needs to be dealt with. I don't use the word aggressive. It's violence from a violent child. I outright tell the parents as you can't be violent as an adult, I don't tolerate violence from children.
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Baby Beluga 05:38 PM 09-21-2018
So, DCB did better today. Minimal corrections and aside from grabbing he did not put his hands on another child in an aggressive way. Hooray!

However....

At pick up he full on, intentionally kicked mom in her shin. Hard.
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Unregistered 05:41 PM 09-21-2018
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga:
So, DCB did better today. Minimal corrections and aside from grabbing he did not put his hands on another child in an aggressive way. Hooray!

However....

At pick up he full on, intentionally kicked mom in her shin. Hard.
Bravo! She deserves it. I always ALWAYS tell these sorts "It's funny now. Will it be funny when she/he is bigger than you?". May I ask what her reaction was?
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Tags:aggression, stress, terminating - considering
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