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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>WWYD? Contagious Problem
EchoMom 07:16 PM 08-27-2014
One year ago I interviewed a family and was told after the interview that the child had contagious skin bumps (molluscum). After looking up the info about it we decided not to accept the family and told them we would pass. They replied adamant that they really wanted to attend would no longer wait for the bumps to run their course but would have them frozen off.

So we accepted the family and the bumps were kept covered. We were surprised how numerous the bumps were. They had the bumps frozen off over the course of several dermatologist appointments.

Fast forward several months later, we have now had the child's infant sibling with us for several months. He has now been battling the bumps for a few months. He has had a few bumps appear in various places. The mother is trying to treat them with home remedies, dermatologist, and covering them. But they keep popping up.

The family said the infant got the bumps from the same family member home as before, so they are still going to the same place that infected older child previously.

We are very worried about this. And now it very seriously appears that older child has gotten a bump again, although mom was told you can't or it is very rare to get it twice, I read on the CDC that you can be reinfected. The bumps are not a concern to health but are benign wart like papules that can take months - years to go away on their own OR visit a dermatologist for multiple treatments.

We did not want to deal with this in the first place and now a year later the two children both have the contagious bumps. I'm extremely concerned my own child will get it, myself, my assistant, or the other daycare children.

What would you do? Term? Keep? It's a lot of money lost if we term and hassle to replace. This family and children have been terrific otherwise but these bumps are relentless, exhausting, and just keep popping up like Whack A Mole.
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daycare 07:20 PM 08-27-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
One year ago I interviewed a family and was told after the interview that the child had contagious skin bumps (molluscum). After looking up the info about it we decided not to accept the family and told them we would pass. They replied adamant that they really wanted to attend would no longer wait for the bumps to run their course but would have them frozen off.

So we accepted the family and the bumps were kept covered. We were surprised how numerous the bumps were. They had the bumps frozen off over the course of several dermatologist appointments.

Fast forward several months later, we have now had the child's infant sibling with us for several months. He has now been battling the bumps for a few months. He has had a few bumps appear in various places. The mother is trying to treat them with home remedies, dermatologist, and covering them. But they keep popping up.

The family said the infant got the bumps from the same family member home as before, so they are still going to the same place that infected older child previously.

We are very worried about this. And now it very seriously appears that older child has gotten a bump again, although mom was told you can't or it is very rare to get it twice, I read on the CDC that you can be reinfected. The bumps are not a concern to health but are benign wart like papules that can take months - years to go away on their own OR visit a dermatologist for multiple treatments.

We did not want to deal with this in the first place and now a year later the two children both have the contagious bumps. I'm extremely concerned my own child will get it, myself, my assistant, or the other daycare children.

What would you do? Term? Keep? It's a lot of money lost if we term and hassle to replace. This family and children have been terrific otherwise but these bumps are relentless, exhausting, and just keep popping up like Whack A Mole.
reading that it is contagious, no amount of money could help me keep them.

Think about how much money you will lose if you keep them in the long run. Letting them go will be a temporary financial change. You will refill the spots. Even if it took 4 months, that is only 4 months of loss of money.

Imagine if you and your family get it the cost in medical bills. What about the cost of losing other DCKS because of it. Or losing your staff. think about how much that will cost you. THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY

I would let them go.. If you know it is contagious and you are that concerned, let them go. You will thank yourself later
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TheGoodLife 07:24 PM 08-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
reading that it is contagious, no amount of money could help me keep them.

Think about how much money you will lose if you keep them in the long run. Letting them go will be a temporary financial change. You will refill the spots. Even if it took 4 months, that is only 4 months of loss of money.

Imagine if you and your family get it the cost in medical bills. What about the cost of losing other DCKS because of it. Or losing your staff. think about how much that will cost you. THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY

I would let them go.. If you know it is contagious and you are that concerned, let them go. You will thank yourself later
This is exactly what I was thinking! The possibility of HUGE medical costs or losing other families would be much more than having to replace the 2 children. Especially if you have not let the other families know that you have a contagious situation- there might be legalities there as well, I'm not sure.
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daycare 07:28 PM 08-27-2014
Originally Posted by TheGoodLife:
This is exactly what I was thinking! The possibility of HUGE medical costs or losing other families would be much more than having to replace the 2 children. Especially if you have not let the other families know that you have a contagious situation- there might be legalities there as well, I'm not sure.
I thought about this aspect too after I posted...

there might be legalities there as well

In my state I am required to post anything that is contagious by posting an exposure notice.
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EchoMom 07:45 PM 08-27-2014
I'm legally unLicensed so I don't think there is any legal issue. But you are right, The financial and time burden if any of my family get it will be awful. Also I'm pregnant so more susceptible and I don't want to put my own child through the rigor and stress of the dermatologist appointments or what will soon be my newborn. Also yes we're very concerned what if another child got it.

As I said though, other than this issue, this is one of my best familIes and highest payers and she they Just last week signed a contract agreeing to my new price inCrease. I hate to term a family when there are no other issues but this has gone on too long! And we could have already gotten it and it not show up for 6 months! It's my child's Best friend at daycare which means he'd miss the child but also means plays with the child the most!

Just keeping the contagious papules covered seems fine while mom is treating them except that we never know when a new one will show up on one of the siblings.

I'm so upset about the whole thing. It seems lose lose no matter what.
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sharlan 08:19 PM 08-27-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
I thought about this aspect too after I posted...

there might be legalities there as well

In my state I am required to post anything that is contagious by posting an exposure notice.
Please tell me where to find this. I haven't heard this before. Is it something specific to large family daycares?

My youngest granddaughter got this as an infant on her pubic area. No one else had them, or got them. We have no idea where she got them from.

Two different derm's tried burning them off, but they just kept coming back. Finally, a 3rd derm cut them off. That was the end of it, they never came back. Your dcm may want to ask her derm about this.
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daycare 08:38 PM 08-27-2014
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Please tell me where to find this. I haven't heard this before. Is it something specific to large family daycares?

My youngest granddaughter got this as an infant on her pubic area. No one else had them, or got them. We have no idea where she got them from.

Two different derm's tried burning them off, but they just kept coming back. Finally, a 3rd derm cut them off. That was the end of it, they never came back. Your dcm may want to ask her derm about this.
Lmao. I love to the CA regulations. Let me fun what I have.
I'm already at the gym so I'll post it in the morning
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Play Care 05:15 AM 08-28-2014
A word of warning - a provider on another forum took on a child with this condition. Despite being very careful she did contract them. And in adults they tend to frequent the genital area. They are often confused for genital warts because of it. She said if she had a do over she would not have taken the family.
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NightOwl 05:41 AM 08-28-2014
I read up on this and it says it's considered a sexually transmitted disease when it appears on the genitals!! Whoever thought you could get an STD from daycare!! Gross.... I feel for the mom and the kids. It's a hard position. Could you suspend your contact and tell her that they cannot return until the bumps are all completely gone? And the same will apply for any future bumps that come up? It reminds me of a herpes type thing where it's only contagious when bumps are present.
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lovemykidstoo 06:07 AM 08-28-2014
I had a dcb that had this. The only way you can get it is if you touch the actual spot, if he touches it and then touches something else, therefore leaving the virus on the item (toy, blanket etc) or if you use a towel or linens that has touched the spot as well. When I had this particular dcb, the mom just made sure that the spots were covered. If you can't touch them and he can't touch them, you cannot be infected. I did wash his hands immediately when he came in the morning just in case he touched a spot before mom put the bandages on him.
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preschoolteacher 06:16 AM 08-28-2014
No, no, no way. I would not want the chance of my family getting it. Or other DC kids. It could keep cycling through your house indefinitely. I'd treat it like I'd treat a family with persistent, reoccurring bed bugs or lice. I'd term.
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lovemykidstoo 06:19 AM 08-28-2014
I don't blame her for not wanting to take him, but really, it's not as scary as it seems. Like I said, if it's covered, there is literally no way to get it. It has to be contact. Bed bugs or lice, there is no way to contain it. I do respect the decision not to take the child, but I had the dcb for over a year and nothing ever happened, because they were covered properly.
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Childminder 06:45 AM 08-28-2014
Molluscum contagiosum is not harmful and should not prevent a child from attending day care or school.

It is a viral wart and can be transmitted by touching the open sore or through water as in a pool. It is a virus just as a cold is a virus. The virus is safe if kept covered by sleeves or bandaids, it may itch and should be covered to prevent scratching also. The virus may stay in the child's system for up to two years, there is no way to keep a child quarantined for so long. The sibling probably got it from direct contact with an open sore or by sharing a washcloth.

While it can be transmitted sexually, just because the child might have it on the genital area does not mean it was transmitted that way. He/she has it in their system it is common for the outbreak to erupt on the trunk, groin, and appendages. If you are that alarmed then by all means exclude the children from care but realize it could take a couple years to be clear of the virus.

Contact your health department or pediatric dermatologist and discuss your concerns with them to make yourself more comfortable with your decision. They do not exclude the children from school for having molluscum contagiosum. They just have them cover the spots. One of my dcks had it a few years ago and the mom bought those little spot bandaids online in large packages specifically to keep her child's spots covered.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/mollu...aq/daycare.htm
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Play Care 06:57 AM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I don't blame her for not wanting to take him, but really, it's not as scary as it seems. Like I said, if it's covered, there is literally no way to get it. It has to be contact. Bed bugs or lice, there is no way to contain it. I do respect the decision not to take the child, but I had the dcb for over a year and nothing ever happened, because they were covered properly.
I think that's the big IF. My dck's do not keep band aids on. I can't see them keeping odd areas covered (which I believe was the issue with my provider friend) and then there is the possibility of viral shedding (an area that doesn't have the obvious bump yet may already be shedding the virus)

I also want to be clear that in my post I said the virus tend to show in adults on their genital area, NOT that it was sexually transmitted. However since it does show up there and can be transmitted sexually, I can see it causing some emotional distress... Having had warts frozen off on my hands I can say that I would not want my tender bits treated that way
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Unregistered 07:16 AM 08-28-2014
I'm a daycare provider who has a daughter who had this. We simply had it covered until doctors recommended it be removed. She only had two pencil eraser size bumps that would come and go to treat though. In 2 years no one else never caught it. It has been 6 years since she has had them removed, and still no one has ever caught it.
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lovemykidstoo 07:18 AM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I think that's the big IF. My dck's do not keep band aids on. I can't see them keeping odd areas covered (which I believe was the issue with my provider friend) and then there is the possibility of viral shedding (an area that doesn't have the obvious bump yet may already be shedding the virus)

I also want to be clear that in my post I said the virus tend to show in adults on their genital area, NOT that it was sexually transmitted. However since it does show up there and can be transmitted sexually, I can see it causing some emotional distress... Having had warts frozen off on my hands I can say that I would not want my tender bits treated that way
You just gave me shivers thinking of having them in the private area and frozen off. lol The dcb that I had, I had him for roughly 18 months and never saw one single time that someone else got them here and his brother at home never got them either, but yes, you do have to make sure those bandaids keep them covered.
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Cat Herder 07:29 AM 08-28-2014
If you are tired of the added stress of this, let them go. You have paid your dues. It is Mom's turn. They are her kids. No guilt.

If you want to continue, you can require they wear footed PJ's at all times in your home. They must be kept/washed at your home. As soon as they arrive, change their clothing and wash their face and hands very well with Hibiclense. Redress for going home, launder PJ's for the next day. Rinse/repeat.

As long as they have no growths on their hands/face this should prevent scratching and spreading at your house. In theory. (it worked here for MRSA, HFM, Impetigo, Ringworm and poison Ivy) Long pants/long sleeved shirts won't work because kids can get into them to scratch. If you have an aggressive scratcher, put the PJ's on backwards.

**Personally, If my own kids had a case this bad I would work from home or hire a nanny that I could train for this.

I know it says they can attend school or daycare "as long as they follow these precautions" with a list a page long.... Kids simply won't do it and teachers have many other kids so can't hoover over one. **
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lovemykidstoo 07:40 AM 08-28-2014
By the way, where are the spots?
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EchoMom 08:02 AM 08-28-2014
Thank you all. The prescHooler arrived this morning wIth a new bandaid coveRing a suspicious bump. I sent an emAil to mom very nice but very decisive. We have decided that the sibLings cannot return to our care until they have zero papules and no new papules for 7 days. Payment is still due while they are out sick if she wishes to hold the spots and return.

On the prescHooler, She arrived to our care with about 30-40 bumps on her torso armpits and thighs. She had them frozen off in multiple derm appts in groups.

Now a year later almost, the baby has been popping up with them for a couple Months. First his neck, then shin, now a cluster on his groin, And elbow. The preschooler sib has now gotten one on her neck and possibly thigh and wrist.
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lovemykidstoo 08:16 AM 08-28-2014
So how many kids are there, 2 or 3? Well, they won't be back because they wont' be rid of them for a long time. This can last years. I feel bad for the mom, (not saying your decision wasn't right), just feel bad for her, because she's going to have a hard time finding care for them.
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JenNJ 08:18 AM 08-28-2014
Molluscum is a pain in the butt to get rid of. They are harmless bumps but annoying. My son got them from a public pool. He then passed them on so generously to my daughter. It's been a year and both kids are bump free without medical intervention. I was not comfortable using topical steroids for a long period of time.

No shared clothing, bedding, towels, washcloths, etc. Wash anything the warts touch in very hot water and soap. Dry on high. Keep bumps covered with clothing or bandaids. Use gloves when applying medicine or lotion to bumps and wash hands afterwards.

My husband and I never got them but I was rigorous about the washing. I thin my dd got them from jumping in his bath one time. My kids were fortunate that they were only on their butts, bellies or lower back. Dd had one on her armpit for a week or so.

I wouldn't exclude for them unless it was a case where they couldn't be covered or the parents were refusing to keep up on hygiene at home.
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BrooklynM 09:07 AM 08-28-2014
One of my DCB's has them. He is 2 and has had them for about a year. The mom is a nurse and she takes him to a pediatric dermatologist. I personally spoke with the doctor about it and he advised me to just keep them covered, wash hands, etc. Nobody here has gotten any of them ever. He gets them in his genital area, under arms, torso and behind his knees (in the crease). They have gotten some frozen off, some cut off, etc. We use a little cortisone cream for the itching if they get itchy.

I spoke to my licensor and he said not only was it fine for him to come to daycare I did not need to inform the other parents or anything. But, this is California so you should ask your own licensor...
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EchoMom 09:33 AM 08-28-2014
2 kids. Siblings preschooler and baby
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MrsD 09:40 AM 08-28-2014
How long do each bump usually last? I have a DCB who I thought had 2 bug bites on his side and one on his cheek. He's been with me 1.5 mo and the "bites" are still there. I began thinking they may be something else. Now I'm concerned the might be these.
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EchoMom 09:48 AM 08-28-2014
If you're concerned the Long lasting bug bites are this, look up Molluscum Contagiousm. They don't look anything like a bug bite. More like a wart. Small raised bump. The bumps can last months - years.
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MrsD 10:43 AM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
If you're concerned the Long lasting bug bites are this, look up Molluscum Contagiousm. They don't look anything like a bug bite. More like a wart. Small raised bump. The bumps can last months - years.
Thanks. I did look at pictures and some look similar but most do not. His bumps do not have a dimple in the middle like the description says and most pictures show. Either way, I'll be asking his mom about them today since they've been there a while.
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EchoMom 02:11 PM 08-28-2014
Well the mom picked up the sibs today and asked for all their belonand cheatgings. She asked my assisstant to have me call her, she's very disappointed and doesn't want to leave our care. Iwill not be calling her, too much personal time on phone just to listen to sob story and rehash the same issue. I'm very disaPpointed as well to be losing a large amOunt of income and a great family and childRen we've had for a year. However I'm relieved to have the Contagious cHildren gone.

It's just a lose lose situation.

I didn't term but I told her in email ALL the papules must be ALL GONE And clear for 7 days abd to keep spots must continue to pay while absent. So she's leaving I gUess and I'll have to replace. Ugh.
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NightOwl 03:43 PM 08-28-2014
I have to respectfully disagree. It's a harmless virus that can be controlled. You haven't mentioned that any other dcks have come down with it in a whole year, only the sibling, so you must have been doing a good job with your cleaning routines.

Mom has been consulting doctors and following their instructions from what you've said, so this is not something I would term over.

On a side note, if you are licensed, I would be concerned about being accused of discrimination based on a medical condition. I don't know which state you're in or what your regulations are and that would definitely be a factor in this. You have to do what's right for your business, but I don't think this is the right decision, imho.

I do NOT mean to offend in any way, I'm just offering my perspective as a provider and as a parent.
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daycare 03:55 PM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by sharlan:
Please tell me where to find this. I haven't heard this before. Is it something specific to large family daycares?

My youngest granddaughter got this as an infant on her pubic area. No one else had them, or got them. We have no idea where she got them from.

Two different derm's tried burning them off, but they just kept coming back. Finally, a 3rd derm cut them off. That was the end of it, they never came back. Your dcm may want to ask her derm about this.
I was told that it differs my county and that the county controller decides which illnesses are required to give an exposure notice.

this was not on the list.........HFM was.....
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EchoMom 07:15 PM 08-28-2014
I'm legally unlicensed so the regulations you mention don't apply to me. A year ago the 40 papules the preschooler had were all an her torso, armpit, and thigh and were being frozen off, that was the condition on us accepting her. Then they were gone for most of a year until a few Months ago when the baby started getting them because they continue to visit three same untreaTed family members home that infecTed them the first time.

We kept baby quarantiNed the last few months which is easy with a baby. However now after the baby continuing to show up with more, the PrescHooler has contacted them again, which the mom told me and I believe she believed couldn't happen but I told her my research from the CDC said it could reinfect and it has.

It is impossible to quarantine a preschooler without hurting feelings and making all the children confused. She now has papules beginning on her neck wrist and thigh. She is a good friend but that also means she wrestles with my own child, hugs, plays in his room, lays in his bed, hides under blankets with, and plays in pool.

There is no way I can so severely limit her in order to not risk any other child getting it. It was one thing to quarantine a baby it is an entirely diffErnT and more difficult problem to manage a preschool friend.

Believe me it's not an easy decision and if there were a black and white right and wrong there would be no question or opinions needed. I'm sure some people would handle it in a variety of diffErnT ways. I just can't risk it any longer and I'm pregnant and don't want to jeopardize anyone's health.
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craftymissbeth 07:59 PM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I have to respectfully disagree. It's a harmless virus that can be controlled. You haven't mentioned that any other dcks have come down with it in a whole year, only the sibling, so you must have been doing a good job with your cleaning routines.

Mom has been consulting doctors and following their instructions from what you've said, so this is not something I would term over.

On a side note, if you are licensed, I would be concerned about being accused of discrimination based on a medical condition. I don't know which state you're in or what your regulations are and that would definitely be a factor in this. You have to do what's right for your business, but I don't think this is the right decision, imho.

I do NOT mean to offend in any way, I'm just offering my perspective as a provider and as a parent.


Other than the baby's neck, all of the places you listed with bumps can be easily covered with clothing (like the pj's a PP suggested).
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TheGoodLife 08:24 PM 08-28-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I have to respectfully disagree. It's a harmless virus that can be controlled. You haven't mentioned that any other dcks have come down with it in a whole year, only the sibling, so you must have been doing a good job with your cleaning routines.

Mom has been consulting doctors and following their instructions from what you've said, so this is not something I would term over.

On a side note, if you are licensed, I would be concerned about being accused of discrimination based on a medical condition. I don't know which state you're in or what your regulations are and that would definitely be a factor in this. You have to do what's right for your business, but I don't think this is the right decision, imho.

I do NOT mean to offend in any way, I'm just offering my perspective as a provider and as a parent.
I think you're fine, and don't think you made the wrong decisions. All that extra work and the chances of spreading to your own family, plus being pregnant- I'd do the same! I wouldn't be able to let the older child get into my child's room, and you've done a lot so far, but it sounds like it has gotten worse again. I'm sure it was a hard decision, but don't feel bad- you've done a lot for a long time, and it got better but now it's getting worse. Sorry you are losing so much income, good luck replacing quickly!!
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NightOwl 11:34 PM 08-28-2014
Oh you didn't mention about the children visiting an untreated family member and that's what's causing the infection to resurface. That's just careless of the parents. They know your position and continue to expose the kids to others who have it, causing more outbreaks. In that case, I DO believe you made the right decision. You can only do what YOU can do. You can't control what they do on their own time. And you shouldn't have to worry yourself sick over it possibly spreading because of their bad judgement.
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lovemykidstoo 04:48 AM 08-29-2014
I'm sure that if you explained it how you've explained it to us, then the mom would understand and she can leave without hard feelings. Have you talked with her?
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Thegrayghost1966 10:47 AM 08-29-2014
Having worked 5 years in a public school pre-k and kindergarten, we saw this many times. Many kids get it. I have a friend's daughter who has it now. They treated them and they just came back. It a virus folks. Like the warts kids sometimes get on knees etc. my daughter has one now and we have tried everything to get rid of it. Your body has to fight the virus and one day they just disappear. I never considered it a big deal.
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Thegrayghost1966 10:47 AM 08-29-2014
Double post
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EchoMom 11:26 AM 08-29-2014
This is the email I sent yesterday:
She didn't reply to the email, only a text asking for their belongings. When she picked up yesterday she asked my assistant if she could talk to me but I was busy. She asked my assistant for me to call her, which I will not do. There's nothing more to say than I said in my email and I'm not going to waste my personal time listening to a sob story. I didn't term, but she's leaving I guess. Very disappointing, of all the families you wouldn't mind losing/have lost/termed/etc, then to lose one that was actually a good fit because they can't get the papules in check.


Dear ******,

We empathize with your situation and applaud your effort to stay on top of ****** and ******'s Molluscum outbreaks. We understand it's been a year or much longer for you of trying to battle these papules, many dermatologist appointments, and vigilance in treating and covering them. We know that you've been trying your best and we absolutely love having them in our care. You know that ****** is a beloved friend and exemplary "student." ****** has always had a pleasant disposition, smiles easily, and we look forward to seeing him start to toddle in coming months.

Unfortunately, we can no longer jeopardize the health of our own family, and families we provide care for. I understand it is a benign virus, however, clearly from your experience it is recurrent, and extremely difficult to eradicate, despite your best efforts and perseverance. It clearly is a drain on finances and time to pursue treatments and appointments and that is not something that I can subject other families to. You have been kind and respectful throughout and you also would not wish this stress on anyone else to go through what you've been going through. I cannot guarantee that other families would be as vigilant as you have been, as financially able to deal with it, or have as many family and friends to assist in time off work and getting to appointments. We cannot risk other children showing up at home with papules on their face, genitals, etc.

****** continues to pop up with new papules and now ****** is showing suspicious bumps and bites. It is unfortunate to quarantine ******, but even more, impossible to quarantine ******. We do not want her to be sad that she cannot participate or share all the same toys and touching as her friends. We don't want to make her feel ostracized but we also cannot risk spreading this stubborn contagious virus to others.

We look forward to working with your family long term, as ****** progresses into our Preschool curriculum and ****** grows to be able to enjoy and explore much more of the toys and friends around him. However, we can no longer patiently wait and hope no one else contracts the Molluscum, so we must insist that the children remain at home, while sick, as long as they have the contagious virus papules. They may return to daycare when they have zero papules, and have been papule free for 7 days.

In the meantime, if you want to continue care with us, as we do with you, in order to hold your spots, payment is still due regardless of attendance, as stated in the sick policy of our contract.

We sincerely have best wishes for your family and all the families in our care. We appreciate your understanding and look forward to the children returning virus free to resume their play and learning.

Sincerely,

******
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EntropyControlSpecialist 11:47 AM 08-29-2014
That is a great letter. Very professional and kind.
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NeedaVaca 11:52 AM 08-29-2014
Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist:
That is a great letter. Very professional and kind.
I completely agree! Very well thought out and kind!
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craftymissbeth 12:58 PM 08-29-2014
Not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but it's strange that you consider her such a great client yet you won't return her phone call. Not only that, but you didn't term her so technically she's still a client. from what I'm reading it doesn't sound like she exactly gave you notice... she just picked up her belongings. I mean, they could be excluded for weeks and I'm sure she needs their things in the meantime. Maybe she just wanted to explain that.
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EchoMom 01:41 PM 08-29-2014
Thanks everyone!

I don't think you're snarky at all. You're right except for this ongoing issue they have been a great daycare family. It's not that I won't communicate with her. This only came to a head yesterday and I just don't want a phone call when emotions are high. She can email me anything she wants to say. Today we had my sons bday party at daycare and a holiday weekend. I'm not going to spend my personal time on it.

You're right things are up in air now. She just took her belongings and told my assisstant she wasn't expecting this and "couldn't afford" to pay while out sick. I don't know how exactly this will pan out. So far I don't really know her final decision and no discussion of final week of her deposit she paid etc.

Just letting her have time to think and she can always email me.
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BrooklynM 02:17 PM 08-29-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
This is the email I sent yesterday:
She didn't reply to the email, only a text asking for their belongings. When she picked up yesterday she asked my assistant if she could talk to me but I was busy. She asked my assistant for me to call her, which I will not do. There's nothing more to say than I said in my email and I'm not going to waste my personal time listening to a sob story. I didn't term, but she's leaving I guess. Very disappointing, of all the families you wouldn't mind losing/have lost/termed/etc, then to lose one that was actually a good fit because they can't get the papules in check.


Dear ******,

We empathize with your situation and applaud your effort to stay on top of ****** and ******'s Molluscum outbreaks. We understand it's been a year or much longer for you of trying to battle these papules, many dermatologist appointments, and vigilance in treating and covering them. We know that you've been trying your best and we absolutely love having them in our care. You know that ****** is a beloved friend and exemplary "student." ****** has always had a pleasant disposition, smiles easily, and we look forward to seeing him start to toddle in coming months.

Unfortunately, we can no longer jeopardize the health of our own family, and families we provide care for. I understand it is a benign virus, however, clearly from your experience it is recurrent, and extremely difficult to eradicate, despite your best efforts and perseverance. It clearly is a drain on finances and time to pursue treatments and appointments and that is not something that I can subject other families to. You have been kind and respectful throughout and you also would not wish this stress on anyone else to go through what you've been going through. I cannot guarantee that other families would be as vigilant as you have been, as financially able to deal with it, or have as many family and friends to assist in time off work and getting to appointments. We cannot risk other children showing up at home with papules on their face, genitals, etc.

****** continues to pop up with new papules and now ****** is showing suspicious bumps and bites. It is unfortunate to quarantine ******, but even more, impossible to quarantine ******. We do not want her to be sad that she cannot participate or share all the same toys and touching as her friends. We don't want to make her feel ostracized but we also cannot risk spreading this stubborn contagious virus to others.

We look forward to working with your family long term, as ****** progresses into our Preschool curriculum and ****** grows to be able to enjoy and explore much more of the toys and friends around him. However, we can no longer patiently wait and hope no one else contracts the Molluscum, so we must insist that the children remain at home, while sick, as long as they have the contagious virus papules. They may return to daycare when they have zero papules, and have been papule free for 7 days.

In the meantime, if you want to continue care with us, as we do with you, in order to hold your spots, payment is still due regardless of attendance, as stated in the sick policy of our contract.

We sincerely have best wishes for your family and all the families in our care. We appreciate your understanding and look forward to the children returning virus free to resume their play and learning.

Sincerely,

******
Just so you know, every single article that I have read said that children should not be excluded from care for this. I was also very concerned when one of my DCK's broke out with this (and still has it) but I did so much research, talked to the child's doctor, talked to my licensor, etc and they all told me it was perfectly safe for him to be in my care. My licensor sent me this article http://www.ucsfchildcarehealth.org/p...sumEN_0909.pdf

It is your business and you definitely need to do what is best for you especially being pregnant, but I just want everyone to be informed about this virus because it is fairly common.
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momofboys 03:00 PM 08-29-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
I'm legally unlicensed so the regulations you mention don't apply to me. A year ago the 40 papules the preschooler had were all an her torso, armpit, and thigh and were being frozen off, that was the condition on us accepting her. Then they were gone for most of a year until a few Months ago when the baby started getting them because they continue to visit three same untreaTed family members home that infecTed them the first time.

We kept baby quarantiNed the last few months which is easy with a baby. However now after the baby continuing to show up with more, the PrescHooler has contacted them again, which the mom told me and I believe she believed couldn't happen but I told her my research from the CDC said it could reinfect and it has.

It is impossible to quarantine a preschooler without hurting feelings and making all the children confused. She now has papules beginning on her neck wrist and thigh. She is a good friend but that also means she wrestles with my own child, hugs, plays in his room, lays in his bed, hides under blankets with, and plays in pool.

There is no way I can so severely limit her in order to not risk any other child getting it. It was one thing to quarantine a baby it is an entirely diffErnT and more difficult problem to manage a preschool friend.

Believe me it's not an easy decision and if there were a black and white right and wrong there would be no question or opinions needed. I'm sure some people would handle it in a variety of diffErnT ways. I just can't risk it any longer and I'm pregnant and don't want to jeopardize anyone's health.
I agree with you - even if the papules are easily covered doesn't mean someone couldn't come down with them. I wouldn't want the risk personally either & I think you made the best decision for you!
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craftymissbeth 09:36 PM 08-29-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
Thanks everyone!

I don't think you're snarky at all. You're right except for this ongoing issue they have been a great daycare family. It's not that I won't communicate with her. This only came to a head yesterday and I just don't want a phone call when emotions are high. She can email me anything she wants to say. Today we had my sons bday party at daycare and a holiday weekend. I'm not going to spend my personal time on it.

You're right things are up in air now. She just took her belongings and told my assisstant she wasn't expecting this and "couldn't afford" to pay while out sick. I don't know how exactly this will pan out. So far I don't really know her final decision and no discussion of final week of her deposit she paid etc.

Just letting her have time to think and she can always email me.
good idea waiting until the dust settles a bit. And you're right that she can email you.
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Play Care 07:42 AM 08-30-2014
One of the things that has struck me about this thread are the number of people saying it's not a big deal, it's just a benign virus, licensing says not to exclude, etc.

This is such a slippery slope. How many posts have there been lately where licensing is saying the provider CAN'T (or shouldn't) exclude. States have been pushing "sick" child care for a long time - HFM? Not a big deal, don't exclude. Lice? Not a big deal, don't exclude. Ringworm? Herpes cold sore? Not a big deal, don't exclude, etc. etc. etc.
There are so many variables with this particular virus. My provider friend who contracted the virus from her dck is probably one of the most conscientious providers I know. And she believed the family when they said "not a big deal" and "we'll keep it covered." We've all had issues with how in home dc can seemingly take over your home/family life. Imagine it interfering with your sex life...
But the OP also brought up a great point - if another child contracts this from the dck who's to say this "benign" virus won't break the bank for another family?
I guess I'm not a fan of licensing or doctors telling me what risks I should be comfortable assuming.
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NeedaVaca 08:09 AM 08-30-2014
Originally Posted by Play Care:
One of the things that has struck me about this thread are the number of people saying it's not a big deal, it's just a benign virus, licensing says not to exclude, etc.

This is such a slippery slope. How many posts have there been lately where licensing is saying the provider CAN'T (or shouldn't) exclude. States have been pushing "sick" child care for a long time - HFM? Not a big deal, don't exclude. Lice? Not a big deal, don't exclude. Ringworm? Herpes cold sore? Not a big deal, don't exclude, etc. etc. etc.
There are so many variables with this particular virus. My provider friend who contracted the virus from her dck is probably one of the most contentious providers I know. And she believed the family when they said "not a big deal" and "we'll keep it covered." We've all had issues with how in home dc can seemingly take over your home/family life. Imagine it interfering with your sex life...
But the OP also brought up a great point - if another child contracts this from the dck who's to say this "benign" virus won't break the bank for another family?
I guess I'm not a fan of licensing or doctors telling me what risks I should be comfortable assuming.
I agree, a lot of people have said it's no big deal but financially if someone in my family did catch it it would be a big deal, not to mention I would have a very hard time getting to dermatologist appointments with my daycare hours. I also read up on this because it's not something I have ever seen before.

Yes, everyone says you don't need to exclude but on one forum where parents were trying to find out how to get rid of it a parent said her son got it from her "nasty daycare". Imagine a DCF getting it, pulling (possibly other families as well) and badmouthing you all over town...you could lose a lot of clients.
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NightOwl 08:57 AM 08-30-2014
From what I've read, there is no definitive treatment for this, so I really don't understand the financial aspect. Everything says it goes away on its own with time, there are no home remedies or meds that help. The trips to a dermatologist are really unnecessary, beyond being diagnosed.

I feel really bad for those kids because they had to endure the freezing treatment to remove a few papules, even tho that was only technically cosmetic. Freezing did not rid their bodies of the virus. Just removed, quite painfully, the papules that were visible at the moment.

So all that financial hardship was really... For nothing. They still have the virus. So why go spending all that time and money, kwim?

Here's what I would've done: had the parents provide me with an unlimited supply of those round band-aids that seal all the way around; had the parents supply me with benadryl (with a medical form completed) for when the itching got out of control; insisted the children come dressed in long sleeves and pants or footie pajamas so the papules would be double covered; papules that came up on the face or hands would get the child excluded until they were gone, covered or not.

But that's just my opinion.
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Play Care 09:08 AM 08-30-2014
Originally Posted by NeedaVaca:
I agree, a lot of people have said it's no big deal but financially if someone in my family did catch it it would be a big deal, not to mention I would have a very hard time getting to dermatologist appointments with my daycare hours. I also read up on this because it's not something I have ever seen before.

Yes, everyone says you don't need to exclude but on one forum where parents were trying to find out how to get rid of it a parent said her son got it from her "nasty daycare". Imagine a DCF getting it, pulling (possibly other families as well) and badmouthing you all over town...you could lose a lot of clients.
Exactly! I can see parents refusing to place their child in long sleeves and pants on warmer days, because after all, it's not a big deal. Or kids refusing to keep band aids on (heck I don't give anyone a band aid unless I see they really need it because they always take them off) etc. I live in a small town, word of mouth is huge. Providers have been run out of business from bad mouthing.
I honestly don't know what I would do if I had a child in my care with this condition. But I feel it should be MY call to make, KWIM?
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EchoMom 09:10 AM 08-30-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
From what I've read, there is no definitive treatment for this, so I really don't understand the financial aspect. Everything says it goes away on its own with time, there are no home remedies or meds that help. The trips to a dermatologist are really unnecessary, beyond being diagnosed.

I feel really bad for those kids because they had to endure the freezing treatment to remove a few papules, even tho that was only technically cosmetic. Freezing did not rid their bodies of the virus. Just removed, quite painfully, the papules that were visible at the moment.

So all that financial hardship was really... For nothing. They still have the virus. So why go spending all that time and money, kwim?

Here's what I would've done: had the parents provide me with an unlimited supply of those round band-aids that seal all the way around; had the parents supply me with benadryl (with a medical form completed) for when the itching got out of control; insisted the children come dressed in long sleeves and pants or footie pajamas so the papules would be double covered; papules that came up on the face or hands would get the child excluded until they were gone, covered or not.

But that's just my opinion.
Wednesday, actually you're wrong (not trying to be mean, just clarify). The virus is not in the body, the virus is IN the waxy core of the papule. If the papule is rubbed, irritated, or broken in any way it can spread. When the papules are gone, the virus is no longer in the body and it is over. However, papules can take usually 2-7 weeks to present, or us much as up to 6 months after the contact/exposure to surface so when they're gone still more can pop up but still as a result of the past exposure just surfacing later.

A year ago it was not a "few papules" the preschooler had around 40 papules COVERING the side of her trunk into her armpit and onto her thigh. The dermatologist appointment was effective. Over multiple appointments they had the papules frozen off in batches until they were all gone.

Then it was over, she was Molluscum free for SEVERAL months, almost a year. The infant was born and came to us Molluscum free for SEVERAL months. Until the baby was infected as a result of RETURNING to the untreated family member's home. The baby continued to have more papules show up and then it spread back to the preschool sib again.

I just want to make it clear that the dermatologist appointments WERE very effective, DID eradicate the papules. It is only because the family continues to visit the untreated family member's home that they have contracted them again and therefore exposed all of us to it again when it was gone for almost a year.

And I agree about covering the papules. But the problem is when they FIRST appear, they start the size of a pin head and grow to pencil eraser size. It's hard to see when they FIRST present and a child may be playing with the children and rub against a tiny Molluscum that hadn't been noticed yet. One day the children are holding the preschoolers hand playing "wedding" the next day a papule shows up on the wrist, so it's hard to cover ever papule from the moment they show up. We recognized the majority of new papules before the mother did and we covered them first.

Instead of going to the dermatologist again, she's messing around with apple cider vinegar as an ineffective and prolonged home remedy.
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NightOwl 09:35 AM 08-30-2014
Originally Posted by EchoMom:
Wednesday, actually you're wrong (not trying to be mean, just clarify). The virus is not in the body, the virus is IN the waxy core of the papule. If the papule is rubbed, irritated, or broken in any way it can spread. When the papules are gone, the virus is no longer in the body and it is over. However, papules can take usually 2-7 weeks to present, or us much as up to 6 months after the contact/exposure to surface so when they're gone still more can pop up but still as a result of the past exposure just surfacing later.

A year ago it was not a "few papules" the preschooler had around 40 papules COVERING the side of her trunk into her armpit and onto her thigh. The dermatologist appointment was effective. Over multiple appointments they had the papules frozen off in batches until they were all gone.

Then it was over, she was Molluscum free for SEVERAL months, almost a year. The infant was born and came to us Molluscum free for SEVERAL months. Until the baby was infected as a result of RETURNING to the untreated family member's home. The baby continued to have more papules show up and then it spread back to the preschool sib again.

I just want to make it clear that the dermatologist appointments WERE very effective, DID eradicate the papules. It is only because the family continues to visit the untreated family member's home that they have contracted them again and therefore exposed all of us to it again when it was gone for almost a year.

And I agree about covering the papules. But the problem is when they FIRST appear, they start the size of a pin head and grow to pencil eraser size. It's hard to see when they FIRST present and a child may be playing with the children and rub against a tiny Molluscum that hadn't been noticed yet. One day the children are holding the preschoolers hand playing "wedding" the next day a papule shows up on the wrist, so it's hard to cover ever papule from the moment they show up. We recognized the majority of new papules before the mother did and we covered them first.

Instead of going to the dermatologist again, she's messing around with apple cider vinegar as an ineffective and prolonged home remedy.
The vinegar won't work. She's just grasping at straws now. No, your weren't mean at all! This forum is all about opinions, right?

It is my understanding that the virus lives in the skin and can lay dormant, that the papules are how it presents visibly. Is that incorrect? That's what I've been reading anyway.

If the child was literally covered with 40+ papules then yes, she needed medical intervention. I still sympathize tho because that freezing mess HURTS!
See, I was thinking a little spot here, a little spot there, when I said band-aids/long sleeves, etc. You can't band-aid 40 of them.

From the email you sent, I can see you really care for the kids. My heart hurts for you that you had to let them go. But if she's exposing the kids to infected people, that borders on negligence imho. Knowing how painful the freezing treatments are and knowing your position on the matter, she's not doing what is in the children's best interest.

I know I seem to flip flop on this, but it's because I feel sympathy for those who sincerely try to manage the condition and I would be happy to work with people like that. But I feel no sympathy at all for those who continually make poor choices and risk their children being exposed again and again.
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EchoMom 09:41 AM 08-30-2014
Thanks Wednesday!

I'm not 100% sure on the virus aspect, it's my understanding that it is NOT like a Herpes type thing that you have forever and is dormant in the body and then comes out at different times, although Molluscum IS part of the Pox Virus family, Herpes, chicken pox, etc. Everything I've read has said it's the waxy core of the papule that contains the virus and contagious element.

I agree Wednesday, I'm very disappointed to lose them but relieved to have the papule battle out of my house. I still need to wash all the blankets and stuff this weekend.

I'd love for them to return papule free, but I don't see it happening. Although as someone else pointed out, I don't technically have any termination from the family yet. So I'm advertising and have a lot of interest already and want to start interviews next week. Gotta hedge my bets both ways for now I guess.
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Tags:infection control, molluscum
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