I am planning on opening next month, so I have started spreading the word and put an ad on craigslist. The ONLY people who have called/emailed are people who want me to take pay from DHS (state pay). Most of them have said that they only want an interview if I will take it b/c where they are now does not, and they need to find a place that will. I totally understand the need for families to get assistance when needed. Michigan's economy is horrible right now, but I have heard so many bad stories about families on state aid not reporting their hours and their providers not getting paid, that it makes me VERY hesitant. I have started telling people that I will consider it on a case by case basis after interview. What do you all think?

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Have you researched what all is required to take state pay in Michigan? I would start there and see what you have to do as a provider to make sure you are reimbursed appropriately. It really depends on if you want to deal with the system and how badly you need kids to get started. I personally do not take state pay families. It is extra work for me and I do not have to do that in order to get new families. There have been a few times that I have considered it though in an attempt to fill a slot so I understand your dilemma. There are certainly a lot of stereotypes about working with state assistance families so I would carefully interview each family (as I would anyone) to try and weed out those that seem unreliable and unstable. Good luck to you!

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I have not had to take state pay in 5 years. The new process is more complicated that it was when I last did it. I guess now that the parents also have to send in the hours and they have to match what the providers hours are otherwise you don't get paid. If you do take it don't wait for the state pay to start because it could take a couple of weeks. I have them pay me regular fees and then when the state pay starts I give it back.

Even though I do understand that with the economy as bad as it is, I choose not to take state pay. The extra paper work is a pain. If you do take them make it clear that the hours need to match so you get paid on time and if they don't they will be responsible for payment.

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I only have state paid at this time. I have only been running my daycare for 5 years but in that time 90% of my clients have been state. The problem I found with private pay is people don't want to pay much for child care around here. I have had parents tell me I charge way too much how are they supposed to live after paying for care etc. I only charge $20 per day for preschool and under and $15 per day for school aged. I don't think that's bad because if people can't afford that then they are elligible for state assistance.

I have never ran into a problem where the state didn't pay (knock wood) but I know there is that possibility. Personally I think it is very unfair for the state to withhold our hard earned income because a parent lied etc. I was just discussing this with another provider the other day. There has to be some way to go about changing that. It should be the parent punnished for what THEY do to lose care. We aren't paid very much to begin with. That $20 that the state pays me is for care up to 12 hours! That's bull! I would never expect anyone work for $1.60 an hour. Luckily I'm only open 10 hrs and I have other kids in care.

I have in my contract that any fees not paid they will be responsible for and if it ends up in court then they would also be required to pay those costs.

I don't want to stereotype either but in my 5 yrs experience I have had more problems with state assisted parents. I really don't get it either it's usually not paying on time and they pay a tiny percent. The most I have seen them pay is $2 per day and that's with the parent earning $1,800.00 every month. I have even had parents that aren't required to pay anything and still had problems with things like picking up on time because they want to go out or they want to go shopping without their kid. Sorry the state only allows the hours they need so when they go over I'm stuck. Enter my late pick up fee which the parents are responisble for.

Thank God they offer the food program here or I would really be hurting.This is 1 of my biggest issues as a provider so I just had to speak up sorry it got so long.

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Thanks I have researched it, and as Morgan said, parents have to report the same hours as I do, otherwise I don't get paid. I think this is why so many places are not taking state pay, and why so many families are looking.

Great idea, thanks! I didn't even think of that. Can we charge a co-pay for what the state doesn't cover in Michigan? I couldn't find any info about that on the state website.
Wow, that is not a lot of money for a lot of hours of care Thanks for letting me know how it is for you. Definately helps me make a decision. I am planning on doing the food program, so hopefully that helps, but I know that takes a while to get going too. Hopefully I can find some clients who don't need me to take state pay. I really don't want to deal with it, but if I have to, I will.

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I have 4 families (we are licensed for 16) that are state. Here in Utah, the state pays up front on the first of each month for care. I have found the problem I face most is parents not turning in all their paperwork to the state when it comes to review time (every 6 months) But I am very strict with them. If the money is not on their card on the first, their kids don't stay until it is. I have had both good and bad parents that are on state. Some are on it due to circumstances beyond their control and they are grateful for the help and work with me to make sure all goes smoothly. Sadly, others are lazy and feel like the world owes them a living and complain that they even have to pay a few dollars out of their own pockets for day care. They are also the ones who will not call if they are going to be late etc. Over the years I have just made sure that I MAKE them understand that my rules are followed or they are outta here! I've canned a few because they just don't listen.

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I am in MI and accept state subsidy, not because I like it but because I have to survive. Can't get enough private pay customers any longer with the unemployment rate so high. I learned that the parent must pay up front and I'll credit their account when and if the state kicks in(up to 45 days and used to be 90) or they walk and you get nothing. Don't let them skate. When they show up without their share, STOP CARE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY until they pay.

I charge my regular rate, the state pays up to 95% of $2.40(usually $2.28) per hour up to 90 hours per biweekly pay period. Parents pay the rest as copay. For example: Weekly Rate is $175, State pays $102.60 per week Parent copay is $66.15 - all based on a 45 hour work week.

As far as parents not calling in their hours - If they don't, care stops immediately! I had a few problems when this system first started but no longer do. I go online every other Sat after care and give parents a copy of the hours on Mon. They go online or call by Thur @ midnight to post their hours and you can check to see if they did or not online and/or remind them daily till they do.

The biggest problem I have had is with parents that want me to bill for hours they did not work or parents that left care w/o paying me their share and I had to go after my $$$. Twice those parents called the state and said I was in violation and was investigated by licensing. Nothing was substantiated and I took them to court to attempt getting my $$$.

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I am not in MI, but our child care assistance program worked very similar but has since changed to a much easier process. But I wanted to say that what childminder said it really the key to any program; ENFORCING the rules and not allowing anyone to go outside of what is expected and required of them.

The minute a parent does not fulfill their end of the agreement then do not provide care. If you do exactly what is outlined in your responsibilties as a provider and hold the parent to their responsibilites then I really do not see having any more problems than you could potentially have with a private pay family.

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I have a friend in Michigan, and she's had SOOO many problems with state paid.

Even if the parent really tries to do it right, the state finds some say to dock the provider for some mistake the parent made. It's almost as if they make it too hard to get reimbursed.

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I am not from Michigan but from California and state pay works different here so I know I can't give you specific advice but I'd like to say that at first I also was hesitant to accept state pay but for different reasons (I thought that low-income pay meant bad low-income families, etc). I was having trouble finding clients and so hesitantly I accepted state subsidy. To prevent going through the hassle of having a family that didn't complete the paperwork I just simple thought of them as private pay through the entire interview process. If they were late to an interview or didn't show up and didn't call first ... NEXT. If I called them to ask questions and they didn't return my calls ... NEXT. If they returned incomplete paperwork or tried coming their first day of care without their paperwork or supplies ... NEXT. It just showed me what I was going to be dealing with and where their priorities and sense of responsibility and respect for me fell. Just be really alert and observant of their habits and behaviors.

If all you are getting is calls for state subsity clients then you could accept a few (some money is better than no money) and see how it goes. If it's too much hassle and the client doesn't keep up with their paperwork then you could always just give them notice and replace them with another family. Eventually I'm sure you'll get some private pay calls and if the interview process goes well you can always let go of a subsidy pay client if you are full. I started with all state pay clients and now I only have 1 family that is on state subsidy.

I suggest you call your local state subsidy offices and ask about their regulations about having them pay firsthand and then reimbursing them afterwards. I do that and it works well. Here it takes 2 months to get the first check so that was important for me. DHS here doesn't pay for late payment, late/early pick-ups or drop-offs, bounced check fee's etc. so I added this policy to my handbook and the parents are responsible for paying these fees on the spot. Some states allow it and others don't. Also here DHS is really good about sending our notices to both the parents and the provider when there is a problem with a clients paperwork. Both the client and I get a notice of action and so I can remind them if I have to that if I their account gets suspended or cancelled then they have to pay or I won't let them bring their child.

Of course here things are easier. Here we don't have to worry about sending in our hours and having them match up with their hours. Here we have one sign-in sheet that they sign everyday at drop-off and pick-up and then again on the bottom at the end of the month. It's my responibility to mail it or to drop it off (which I prefer so that I know that it gets done). You could always require your DHS families to sign in everyday at your daycare and then bring their sheet in (if you have a sheet) or to call their hours in (if you have to call) from your daycare at pick-up on the last daycare day of the month and go by the hours that you have, that way you don't have to worry about turning in different hours.

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Wow! I need to count my blessings! State pay is soooo much easier here (Utah)!

When a client signs up, I just fill out a form that tells the state the number of hours I have contracted with the client and how much I charge. They turn that into the state. They are approved for 6 months at a time. I don't send in anything else...no hours etc. each month, the state puts the day care money on their welfare card. I have the number to their card and just punch in a code on the phone and the money is automatically transferred from their card to my bank account! The state has a web site just for providers that tells us before the end of each month how much money is going to be on the card the next month. So no surprises! If we know the money isn't going to be there, we let the client know they will have to self-pay or they can't come.

Sending in hours etc would be such a pain! Luckily, the state here asked providers how they could make life easier. They figured the effort and paperwork should mainly be on the welfare recipient's shoulders and not ours.

If the client brings their kids when they are not working (not allowed), the state does not hold us responsible at all. The client has to pay it back to the state.

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I am located in MN and was told that I had to be willing to accept state pay. Now, I am sure you could easily come up with a reason they aren't a 'good fit' for your facility, but we are not allowed to say no due to accepting state pay...at least that is what my licensor told me.

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OK MY state just sucks! Sorry to be so blunt but my goodness after reading other states policies ours stinks!

I am not allowed to charge the parent for care at all up front! It says in the state handbook to parents something like, if a provider should try to collect any money other than the authorized daily fee the parents are to inform the office immediatley. They made a change last yr that we can now charge for late pick up thank God! I feel our state treats the providers lousy in some aspects. Even the pay isn't fair. They will pay a center a lot more for the same kid than they will pay us. We take the same classes (actually sit together in the same class room) and have visits from the monitor as well etc but centers get more.

What home providers get paid for days and partial days.
0-2 hours = $5
2-4 hours = $10
4-12 hours = $20
after 12 hours they add $4

That is just for preschoolers. School aged children (K - 12) we only get a max of $15 per day, unless they are here OVER 12 hours then we get that $4 bonus woohoo.

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SO TRUE. Most of the ones I get have been working the system for YEARS. Low lifes for sure. If any doubts when you meet them JUST SAY NO!!!! Any Issues at all JUST SAY GOODBYE!!!!

I'm movin to UTAH!!!

If you decide to take state pays just make sure you have a really good contract - signed with all i's dotted and t's crossed. AND STICK TO IT! They get away with one late pay or late report or anything say BUH BYE!

Let me go on to say that I have also gotten some golden families from my state subs and these families I would not give up for the world.

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Are you sure?

I haven't heard of a State requiring a provider to take State paid.

I don't have State paid clients because the rate is really low. I would loose hundreds of dollars per month on each slot.

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In MN you are NOT required to accept Child Care Assistant Program (CCAP)participants. That is an individual choice. There are several child care centers and family child care homes in my area that simply do not accept families on assistance due to the hassles involved.

As a provider who does take CCAP families, I do it because I do not mind the small amount of additional paperwork required and I like the guarantee of payment. Our state has a good system in place that ensures the provider the payment that is due and that the parent is the one who they go after when their responsibilties are not met.

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I would take it if the pay wasn't so low. In my State they pay per five hour unit. About $11.50 per unit. If the kid is there five hours and fifteen minutes then it would be decent money. ($23 for 5.25 hours = $4.38 per hour) Once you get into the second unit each day they can have as many as ten hours. That comes to $2.20 per hour.

If I interviewed with a family that needed a little over five hours I would consider it but I've learned in the past that "a little over five hours" turns into ten hours after a few weeks or months.

My biggest beef with the child care funding in my State is that it isn't required for the recipient to PROVE that they have attempted to access child support BEFORE they attempt to access child care funding. They should be required to go to Daddy before they go to Uncle Sam. That loophole ushers a lot of scamming into the system.

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Yeah, that would change my mind too! Here, the state pays by the hour or by the day or the week. However the provider chooses to bill. Families are not allowed to get assistance unless they work a minimum of 20 hours per week. (and yes, our state mandates anyone who gets assistance to also seek child support and if the family does not, the county does) I have one mom who didn't want to give up the info on her babydaddy so the state denied her assistance. Why should the tax payers foot her child care bill?

I bill by the week which the state defines as 32 hours per week. Anything the state does not cover, I am aware of ahead of time and the family has to pay the difference on a pre-pay basis. I also get a higher reimbursement rate because I have a CDA/(soon to be bachleor's degree). The state pays 15% more for providers who have a degree, OR a CDA OR are accreditied.

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Interesting....I was told by my licensor that we were required to accept assistance. This would def. be worth something to look into! It hasn't been a problem yet though...where I am located (as sad as this is) you are either making minimum wage or much more...seems the only people looking for decent daycare are those making much more. My guess is the lower income bracket has lots of friends/family watching their children.

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If you need help or have any questions about the way the assistance program works in MN just PM me and I will be glad to help....I've got a ton of experience with it and I also have talked directly with the supervising people at MN DHS so let me know if you need anything. I will gladly help.

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So I have phone interviewed 2 moms who want me to take DHS (state) pmt. The one is REALLY persistent that she LOVES my program and wants her kids here. Ok, fine...I ask why she is leaving the very popular, hard to get your kids into daycare they are in now....she says they are too expensive. I say well, if you don't mind me asking, what are they charging you? She says they are charging her X amount....same as my price. She never asked my price, I didn't offer. She wants me to take only what the state if offering (which is peanuts, really) and not extend a co-pay to her. I tell her I don't think that will cover my costs. She still doesn't ask my price and says, "I can't find anywhere cheaper to take them and I can't afford my $100/wk co-pay (sniffle)". OH MAN....she is a single mom, 2 kids, living in subsidized housing with a decent job, but I tell ya, I worked out every which way I could trying to figure out how to help her without sticking it to my pocketbook and taking up 2 spaces that could be generating decent income for me, but I can not figure out a way to make what I need to without charging her a co-pay. <SIGH> I feel bad for her, but I know if I try to work with her and take less $$ I am going to be resentful eventually. The state only pays $140/wk for two kids!!!!

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Don't change your policy to accommodate. You will regret getting stuck with two spots filled and not enough income. Shes just going to have to work out a way to pay for daycare like the rest of America.

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State pay per child - Utah
Providers can charge as much as they like and parent must pay any difference. We are not required to take state pay.

0-24 mths $450 mth
2&3 yr olds $430 mth
4&5 yr olds $420 mth
school age (out of school) $389 mth
school age (in school) $272 mth

This is as of 2009. I understand they are going to be raising it some time this year.

My day care parents don't have to pay very large co-pays. In fact 3 of them pay nothing at all out of their own pocket.

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at she is asking you to do would be illegal in my State. If 70 dollars a week would be acceptable to a provider then SHE should pay her 50 dollars per week co-pay per kid then the State would pick up the other 20... NOT the other way around where the State pays the full 70.

About ten years ago I worked on the evening shift for a Mom that had three and then four kids. The kids were little dolls. It was awesome money because the kids came in at four p.m. and were in bed by seven. Three hours of awake time and an out the door at midnight. The getting up to let them out the door at midnight was the only part that sucked.

She had nearly free housing (70 dollars per month heat included)... three bedroom duplex that was really big, a six hundred dollar per year energy credit for the electric, WIC for all the kids, food stamps, and child care for FOUR kids (nearly $500 a week)

Her co-pay was 400 dollars per YEAR. She was the wealthiest dc parent I have ever worked for. She had everything paid! She made ten bucks an hour and got THOUSANDS of dollars per year in Earned Income Credit. She got to keep her entire check and got a big refund every year.

I worked for her for nearly three years and she was wonderful to work for. Never had a moments problem. She always could afford everything the kids needed. It didn't end well though because I got a preliminary audit from the State of Iowa regarding my income because there was a 20 THOUSAND dollar difference between what I claimed and what was claimed against me. I found out that she had been claiming the money the STATE paid me on her three and then four kids each year instead of just claiming her measly 400 a year she actually paid. She was claiming 15 THOUSAND dollars of money that she didn't pay. I only claimed what the State paid and her co-pay so I was getting dinged twice for the 15K.

Luckily for me, I was on the phone with the State tax people and she came to drop off her kids. When we realized what the error was I said "hold on" she's here. I'll have you talk to her... and handed her the phone.

She tells them it's a Turbo Tax error.

She left my daycare right after that. The State wanted their money back so she just left town. So I got hit with a huge income loss but the State stopped the audit process.

Also found out a client with two kids I hadn't even SEEN the year before was claiming 5000 child care on his two kids for that year. The kids hadn't even been in my house once that year. That was a "turbo tax" error too.

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I used to take state paid families about 5 yrs. ago, and would never do it again!! I was paid only $14.00 per day per child. I normally charged at that time $25.00 per day, per child. SO that one family of 2 children, I was loosing $22.00 per day, so take that times 5 days per week, over $100.00 per week on one family!!!! It totally wasn't worth it. Then another note, I wouldn't receive any days off, Holidays, Vac. sick, etc.... then I wasn't paid for about 3 weeks, after I sent in the paperwork, which was already a month behind, you did it at the end of the month!! It totally was not worth it at all!!!

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Don't let her talk you into just accepting what the state will pay. Her circumstances are not your problem. She should be grateful for what the state is helping her with and not gripe about her co-pay. You will find a lot of people who get the state assistance will want you to just accept that as your total pay. If you figure out how much you will lose over time, it's a lot of money. Don't back down on her paying her co-pay.

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The state pay is quite simple here in PA. They actually pay more than I charge (I get my rate). The only complaint I have is....when our state budget didn't get passed for so many months I didn't get payed. I had 4 kids on state pay with no money coming in. Can you beleive that? I probably make the least but they take my money first. I got a lump check in the end of course but it was a struggle.

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That's kind of what I thought too. At least she gets some assistance! I would be greatful for that.

I don't think it's the same in Mich, where they pay and then the state pays, but I could be wrong. She did want me to bill for hours they are not here, up to her max allowable, so her co-pay was less, but I told her on the phone that I couldn't do that b/c I didn't want to be investigated and have my paperwork not match up.

$400/year? That's insane. How do people work the system like that? Sheesh!

Pretty much where I'm at. I know I will look at that amount I could be getting and be so mad eventually. Plus, my dh is an accounting major, his father is an accountant....they will light my butt on fire if they see me shorting myself to benefit someone else financially .

She has been pushing for an interview, no matter how many times or ways I say that I cannot take less for the kids' care. Maybe she thinks if I meet her and her kids, it will be easier to convince me? I think I will email her and tell her that it's not going to work out.

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I agree with you YOU SHOULD NOT make an exception for her. It already seems like a bad deal she has already told you that she couldn't make her co-payments to the other place and she's asking you to lower your rates for her (that's pretty much what it comes down to) all BEFORE you've even interviewed her in person. I think the best thing to do is walk away. The only person that loses anything here is you and remember, in the end you're in this to make money. Good luck.

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Why would you even consider making an exception for her? Is she your best friend in the whole world? your own child? the most wonderful golden parent that will ever exist? Trust me she will take all she can get from you and walk away in the end with a knife in your back. Does she walk into the local grocery store and ask for a discount? You are a business not a charity.

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Good points! Thanks for the reality check I can be a softy for some situations. I am glad I posted this question here, b/c it gives me my perspective back. I used to be a single mom, 2 kids on state assistance and I had a daycare lady who I would have moved heaven and earth for! No joke, she was so nice and so great to us. I DID have a co-pay and paid it on time, every time, without question or complaint!!! I was so greatful to have that help when I needed it. At the time, I was going to school full time and working 2 part time jobs I look back and think....how the heck did I do that??? It was in great part because of her and my family that I kept my sanity and my kids were loved and well cared for, so the mommy guilt of having to be gone so much was(slightly) lessened. I only had to work like that for a year to finish up school, and after that it paid off b/c I was in a job where I made my own schedule and was home when the kids were for the most part, but I will FOREVER be greatful to that provider for being SO awesome. So....long story, but that's why I was even considering it

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Really? When I took a state pay child from Jan 2010-Aug-2010, they paid me $11.10/day. That was for a preschool age child. My rate is $20/day.
I know of some providers in my area that charge $10-$12/day. I don't know why they are called providers, at thet price, what are they providing?

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In Ohio you can't be licensed without having at least one state funded child. This is new (mandated that you must) with the state taking over from the counties this past year.

I will say the process is easy and painless, they swipe their card to clock in and out and 2 weeks later I am direct deposited the pay. No other paperwork for me other than collecting their weekly copay.

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I think that is crazy - what if you have no one who asks for care who is state paid or if that one client that is leaves???

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