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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>DCM/DCD Seem Upset I Didn't Tell Them DCK Now On Nap Mats
trix23 12:58 PM 08-24-2017
Hi, me again. Same drop-in client that I'm having issues with (the one that wants a phone conference tomorrow) is saying that they have questions/concerns about eating and sleeping issues here.

(DCG comes 1x/week and has only come 2-3x so far)

We recently started doing naps on nap mats (vs pack n plays like I've been doing the whole time I've been in business. new playroom setup and we are now doing naps in the playroom) and they said they have concerns with sleep for their daughter.

She screams quite a bit (for like 20 minutes) at naptime, which they told me about beforehand, but I don't give into her screaming. I can tell by how she's doing it that it's for attention (not like she's legitimately crying/upset). I don't mention it to DCM cause I expect the newness of daycare to take awhile to adjust. It's already gotten better because I don't make a fuss about it like DCM does. Active ignore.

This family has a $25 late pick-up fee due and hasn't paid it yet (from Monday- it's due same-day). there's 2 loopholes in my contract that they found and are already using that against me.

Their daughter isn't even 2 yet and they are talking about potty training and etc and I have certain requirements for that. mom brought cloth diapers in one day and said I can use them if I want but that she doesn't have a wet bag yet. (ie: i didn't use them as that's a requirement for cloth diapers)

Just have a feeling that if i keep them around that this will never never end. i had a crazy DCM a few months ago that was fighting me tooth and nail about food being offered and that her DCB had gluten and milk sensitivity, though i told her that i serve these things at the tour. I had to be stern with her in a long email that no, I am not negotiating what food is offered and that she can either provide food, have her kid eat what I serve, or put in their 2 weeks' notice.

It's like deja vu all over again..... my intuition is telling me to term them after this conference call on Friday afternoon.

***QUESTION***
If you go from pack-n-plays to nap mats, do you give your parents a heads up? Or just try it out?

What about other mild changes like that?

Main reason I did it was because the daycare room has more space in it now to nap kids in there on nap mats. (I also have mild arthritis in my hands so setting up pack n plays every day hurts). They seem upset I didn't consult them first!
sharlan 01:07 PM 08-24-2017
My parents don't ask and I don't tell when we switch from the pack and play to the mats.

IMHO, I think it's time to let this family go. They don't seem to be worth the one day a week.
Snowmom 01:21 PM 08-24-2017
eek gads.

I think they need a nanny.

But, to answer your question:
I decide when we transition here, not the parents. Unless there is a medical reason (which I can't think of any offhand that would require a child to stay in a crib), they transition here at 2 yrs old. I have done it as early as 17 months with one child who was a dream, but most of the time, I wait until 2 and say that to families at the initial tour.
Denali 01:34 PM 08-24-2017
After reading your other thread about them feeling "unfairly treated" and now this, I'd just term effective now.

They sound completely entitled and like they are just looking for problems to whine about. Whether it's a true complaint or made up.

I'd also place a call to licensing today (before you term) and explain what is going on with this family and that you are terminating services. That you are covering your bases if they decide to make a call and report you for whatever they decide you've slighted them for.

Because I can bet you they will call and file a complaint. They seem to be good at that. 🙄
Baby Beluga 01:44 PM 08-24-2017
I don't tell parents unless they ask.

I try to start everyone off on a cot (easier). If they don't nap well then I'll move them to a PNP and re try the cot in a couple of months.
Blackcat31 01:46 PM 08-24-2017
If they ask questions about nap/rest routines I tell them at what age I try to transition them to a nap mat. If they don't ask specifically I just discuss nap/rest polices in general.

I think the biggest issue you are having with clients isn't really anything to do with any of your policies but maybe with HOW your policies are conveyed to them and whether or not these new families truly understand your methods.

For example I have a basic guideline sheet for interviewing.
I list the topics I will NOT budge or waive and sometimes bullet-point things I think will apply to potential family. Then I make darn sure I cover those topics really really well so that when they leave I am fully confident that they know, understand and CAN adhere to those policies.

I don't just say "You read and understand everything right?" and wait for them to ask any questions or mention concerns. I kind of get pushy about it. As an example I've said things like this during the tour/after the tour on the phone or in e-mail conversations with parents.

You read the section on toilet training correct Ellen? SO you understand that I will NOT take your child to the toilet every 15-30 minutes throughout the day?

You also understand that your child cannot wear underwear until those skills we discussed (also which are listed in the handbook) have been met? Oh, good!

I also want to really make sure you understand that I don't provide a grace period for pick ups or for payments due? If you are unsure of any of the polices in this area please re-read your handbook as this area is THE most misunderstood in the world of childcare and since I have some really firm consequences for these things.
I hate to implement them if a parent doesn't fully understand my policies so again please make sure you reread that section in the handbook so that we are both on the same page."

Those examples aren't necessarily the exact words I use but are examples of the type of conversations and back/forth chit chat that I make a purposeful point of doing so just some random suggestions on really making sure parents understand your policies in the same way that you intended them to.

It sounds like families like you and are interested in using your services but the issues arise from the last few parents either purposely trying to manipulate you/your policies or arise because parents don't really understand them. I am going with the latter as that seems to fit better.

Anyways, I hope that helps.
trix23 01:55 PM 08-24-2017
From my end, it seems like manipulation after being enrolled and hoping that I will just do as they say. I don't want to come across as being rude/mean early on in the relationship with them, but maybe I do need to have a Contract/Policy conference if they are thinking of enrolling where i go over the whole handbook with them and they can ask any questions at that time.
storybookending 02:17 PM 08-24-2017
I just switched a 21 month old to a toddler bed from a pack n play. She's in a crib at home and I did tell mom I was doing it but the child in question is also my niece. I snap chatted mom a picture of her resting on her bed after she fell asleep 5 minutes after laying down. She screenshot it and posted it to Facebook about how proud she was. This family seems like they are best off not enrolling in group care. I would tell them I will no longer be available to them for drop in care.
Rockgirl 02:35 PM 08-24-2017
This family would be gone yesterday here!
trix23 03:33 PM 08-24-2017
What would you say in response to all this? lol
Leigh 04:17 PM 08-24-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
From my end, it seems like manipulation after being enrolled and hoping that I will just do as they say. I don't want to come across as being rude/mean early on in the relationship with them, but maybe I do need to have a Contract/Policy conference if they are thinking of enrolling where i go over the whole handbook with them and they can ask any questions at that time.
At interviews, I do the tour, then I sit down with both parents and basically read my contract/handbook (mine is one document) to them. For example: Payments are due on Friday by pickup time. After pickup time, a fee of $10 per day will be assessed ($10 for Friday, $10 for Saturday, $10 for Sunday, etc.). Payment AND late fees must be paid before your child will be accepted into care again.
This means that you may not drop your child off on Monday if you haven't paid the fees. If you understand, initial here: ___

After pickup time, late fees are $1 per minute, payable at pickup. Late pickups are not acceptable unless arranged at least 24 hours in advance (there will be a fee for this, as well). I close at 5:30-Are you able to have your child picked up by this time every day? If you understand that your child must be picked up by 5:30, and that every minute after 5:30 is billed at $1 per minute, initial here: ___.

This isn't it word for word, but this is how I do it. I have BOTH parents initial each and every section of my contract agreeing that they understand and agree to my policy. This has DRAMATICALLY cut down on "do I have to pay for XXX?" "Can he stay here til 7 on Friday so I can go to the Library?"

I actually have changed portions of my contract for some parents during these discussions if it was mutually beneficial, but after it is signed, it is what we go by.
Leigh 04:19 PM 08-24-2017
As far as the nap mats-it seems to me that they're just looking for things to get upset over at this point. The only thing that matters is that their child is safe and is getting those naps. Whether in a PNP or on a mat truly isn't significant...I really believe they're just being a-holes at this point.
mommyneedsadayoff 04:41 PM 08-24-2017
ummm, why do they even care? I am not a fan of micro managers. I would term and move forward.
trix23 04:50 PM 08-24-2017
Originally Posted by Leigh:
At interviews, I do the tour, then I sit down with both parents and basically read my contract/handbook (mine is one document) to them. For example: Payments are due on Friday by pickup time. After pickup time, a fee of $10 per day will be assessed ($10 for Friday, $10 for Saturday, $10 for Sunday, etc.). Payment AND late fees must be paid before your child will be accepted into care again.
This means that you may not drop your child off on Monday if you haven't paid the fees. If you understand, initial here: ___

After pickup time, late fees are $1 per minute, payable at pickup. Late pickups are not acceptable unless arranged at least 24 hours in advance (there will be a fee for this, as well). I close at 5:30-Are you able to have your child picked up by this time every day? If you understand that your child must be picked up by 5:30, and that every minute after 5:30 is billed at $1 per minute, initial here: ___.

This isn't it word for word, but this is how I do it. I have BOTH parents initial each and every section of my contract agreeing that they understand and agree to my policy. This has DRAMATICALLY cut down on "do I have to pay for XXX?" "Can he stay here til 7 on Friday so I can go to the Library?"

I actually have changed portions of my contract for some parents during these discussions if it was mutually beneficial, but after it is signed, it is what we go by.
I was told by my mentor not to go over policies at the initial tour because it seems too harsh and they will lose interest.... :\

You have them initial on each line at the end of your tour? Or once they decide to enroll?
daycare 05:19 PM 08-24-2017
It seems like to me they are just picking at every little thing they can find becuase they are mad about the other situation with the late fee.

I really think you know yourself best and if you are having that gut feeling to let them go, do it.

BTW I don't go over all of my policies in detail during the tour. After the tour if I decide that I like them and want to enroll, I will email everything but the 2 page contract and PHB.

I require an enrollment meeting where we go over all documents to make sure they are correctly filled out and then I go over contract. My contract is 2 pages and very to the point. I make them sign it right there and HIGHLIGHT the most important parts. Like don't pick up late or you will pay...lol

At this time they also make their first payment. I will NOT start their child if they don't attend this meeting. It takes about 45 minutes to go over everything and I have never had a family tell me no or try to argue with me about it. CA has so much paperwork that needs to be filled out and in my hands before I can provide services and I can't afford to be sighted for lack of paperwork, so this works best for me.

I hope it all works out for you.
trix23 05:32 PM 08-24-2017
Thank you all for your wisdom. I am going to humor them by doing this conference tomorrow (30 minutes) and then I will hang up the phone and email them my termination notice. Had enough of these shenanigans and no one, I repeat NO ONE, will pressure me into anything. I am a businesswoman, NOT a personal nanny.
flying_babyb 05:38 PM 08-24-2017
Originally Posted by Snowmom:
eek gads.

I think they need a nanny.

But, to answer your question:
Unless there is a medical reason (which I can't think of any offhand that would require a child to stay in a crib), they transition here at 2 yrs old. .
I can! we have a two yea old sleeping in a pack and play still so her oxygen tank can be hung off the side. shes only on oxygen when sleeping
Leigh 06:32 PM 08-24-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I was told by my mentor not to go over policies at the initial tour because it seems too harsh and they will lose interest.... :\

You have them initial on each line at the end of your tour? Or once they decide to enroll?
I absolutely DO go over policies at the tour! And, I only do ONE tour. I'm not going to entertain multiple visits-my time is worth too much to me. Since I started this, I have increased the quality of my enrollees IMMENSELY. The parents are gold. I have ONE parent now who I want to get rid of (and I KNEW I should never have enrolled her, but I did because of a relationship I have with one of her relatives). I told my husband that it was going to be a disaster, and it is headed that way.

I always know by the end off the tour/interview whether I am willing to enroll the family. If I am, I ask them if they want to enroll, and we do it right there. If they need time to decide (which I encourage-I even give names of other good daycares that they could interview with), then I'll still go over policies, ask questions about whether they agree to them, and send the forms home and require them back before the first day.

I don't know why your mentor feels that it would seem harsh or turn off parents-for me, it has made my life MUCH easier. I have only ever interviewed 4 parents who have decided not to enroll with me when I have offered. EVER. I don't agree that the way I do things is a turn off for parents. I have actually had a couple of parents tell me that they appreciate the detailed contract/handbook/explanations because they know what to expect.
trix23 07:45 PM 08-24-2017
Daycare Services Termination Letter

Friday, August 25, 2017

Dear Family,

Based on what has been discussed thus far as well as your needs and expectations for care for DCK, I feel that you may be better off with a nanny or an individual babysitter that can come to your home for childcare services. Because of this, I feel like this isnít a good fit for my program. As such, I am issuing notice for withdrawal of daycare services, effective immediately.

Your child(ren)ís last day of care will be Friday, August 25th, 2017. Please adhere to all termination policies with regards to payment and settling of your account.

In accordance with Biz Daycareís Handbook and Contract Agreement, you are required to pay for services and any outstanding fees up until the last day of service stated in the Termination Letter, whether or not your child is present. (You currently owe $25)

I wish you and your family all the best. Good luck in your daycare search!

Warm Regards,
~Miss Daycare Lady

Owner/Operator
storybookending 08:23 PM 08-24-2017
Can I ask why you are wasting your time with the phone conference if your mind is made up? Just seems like wasted effort to me.
trix23 09:19 PM 08-24-2017
Because I said I would, even though I don't want to. That way they can't say that I didn't listen to their concerns or whatever.
Josiegirl 02:16 AM 08-25-2017
As someone else said, why would they care?? There really is no downside to switching to a mat and it wouldn't affect what they're doing at home. Geesh....
And the late fee, have they not even paid that yet? Considering how short of a time they've been coming and they've already got all these issues to discuss yeh, too much trouble for too little time.
Second Home 06:04 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:


***QUESTION***
If you go from pack-n-plays to nap mats, do you give your parents a heads up? Or just try it out?
Here in MD all children under 2 must be in a crib or pack in play unless I have permission from the parent in writing that their child can move to a cot . So I would have to talk to a parent about switching to a cot if I wanted to do it before age 2.
LysesKids 06:16 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I was told by my mentor not to go over policies at the initial tour because it seems too harsh and they will lose interest.... :\

You have them initial on each line at the end of your tour? Or once they decide to enroll?
All my policies are online; parents know them upfront before they even meet me. If they don't like them, they don't schedule a meeting - saves me time & trouble.
LysesKids 06:19 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by Second Home:
Here in MD all children under 2 must be in a crib or pack in play unless I have permission from the parent in writing that their child can move to a cot . So I would have to talk to a parent about switching to a cot if I wanted to do it before age 2.
Crazy how that goes because TN has us transition at 12 months... something I was already doing & parents knew from get go
Blackcat31 06:26 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I was told by my mentor not to go over policies at the initial tour because it seems too harsh and they will lose interest.... :\
She's suggesting you lure them in and then say "Oh by the way I have these rules/policies"

I dunno if it were me, I'd stop taking her advice.

That is HORRIBLE business advice and honestly as a parent I'd feel like providers were all doing bait and switch type selling/marketing methods and it would turn me off to a child care immediately if they weren't transparent about their program policies.

No wonder families in your area have a hard time with child care.
Leigh 07:43 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
She's suggesting you lure them in and then say "Oh by the way I have these rules/policies"

I dunno if it were me, I'd stop taking her advice.

That is HORRIBLE business advice and honestly as a parent I'd feel like providers were all doing bait and switch type selling/marketing methods and it would turn me off to a child care immediately if they weren't transparent about their program policies.

No wonder families in your area have a hard time with child care.
I agree. I know you have had problems with more than one client. Perhaps this is why? They're just not understanding your policies? They're agreeing to childcare before KNOWING the policies? Neither you nor your clients are happy with the status quo, apparently. Perhaps it is time to try something else? Your mentor may know MUCH about childcare-I don't know him or her. What I DO know, is that no one knows it all (well, there may be a couple here who I think do!).

Truth is, if you're looking for a mentor, I'd suggest hiring Nannyde to help you get your business going in the right direction. I can't imagine that you could hire a better consultant.
trix23 09:42 AM 08-25-2017
When i was going over my Handbook with prospective clients, no one was enrolling. :/
BumbleBee 10:38 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
When i was going over my Handbook with prospective clients, no one was enrolling. :/
Probably because it's not your handbook.
midaycare 10:41 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by BumbleBee:
Probably because it's not your handbook.
I have some burn cream over here in my first aid kit...
trix23 11:03 AM 08-25-2017
So are all of you saying that you've read her Handbook and mine and agree that it's the same?

Not feeling any kinda burn cause it's simply not true.
LysesKids 11:12 AM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
So are all of you saying that you've read her Handbook and mine and agree that it's the same?

Not feeling any kinda burn cause it's simply not true.
Darlin' all BC has to do is prove she wrote the handbook to Etsy & they will take your site down if they find your stuff matches hers; we all know how she writes
Ariana 01:53 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Darlin' all BC has to do is prove she wrote the handbook to Etsy & they will take your site down if they find your stuff matches hers; we all know how she writes
Hopefully she is kind enough to not sue you for copyright infringement. Some of us have a copy of her handbook and can prove it is hers and the dates it was written.
trix23 02:38 PM 08-25-2017
I will gladly provide my Handbook as well for anyone to see that it is indeed my original content. The title page being the same isn't enough for copyright infringement.....
Ariana 02:43 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I will gladly provide my Handbook as well for anyone to see that it is indeed my original content. The title page being the same isn't enough for copyright infringement.....
So why would she say it is? She has a hidden vendetta against you?
trix23 02:45 PM 08-25-2017
I wouldn't know! It may look similar, but is it impossible that 2 daycare providers can have a similar front page?
daycare 03:00 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I wouldn't know! It may look similar, but is it impossible that 2 daycare providers can have a similar front page?
Similar wouldn't be word for word. Yours is exactly like hers there are no apples and oranges here.
trix23 03:28 PM 08-25-2017
I did not plagarize your content. I am more than willing to send you my Handbook over email so you can see for yourself that I did not copy your content.

I value everyone's input and advice and do not copy others' work, though I am inspired by it.
LysesKids 04:36 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
I will gladly provide my Handbook as well for anyone to see that it is indeed my original content. The title page being the same isn't enough for copyright infringement.....
Then why has your Etsy page had stuff changed in the last few hrs... like date opened & how much interest everyone has etc etc? I took a screen shot earlier... it's been changed
daycare 04:37 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Then why has your Etsy page had stuff changed in the last few hrs... like date opened & how much interest everyone has etc etc? I took a screen shot earlier... it's been changed
getting popcorn....ok I hate popcorn, hummus and carrot sticks.
trix23 06:33 PM 08-25-2017
ah, so you must be the one feeding the info.

I updated my handbook because of customer issues the past few days. and also because BC claimed that my title page looked too much like hers and that it MUST BE COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT! heaven forbid a title page is similar.

she said that she would not make an issue of it if I changed the title page. so i did. no biggie. ask her yourself.
LysesKids 06:35 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
ah, so you must be the one feeding the info.

I updated my handbook because of customer issues the past few days. and also because BC claimed that my title page looked too much like hers and that it MUST BE COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT! heaven forbid a title page is similar.

she said that she would not make an issue of it if I changed the title page. so i did. no biggie. ask her yourself.
Actually no I am not the one that fed the original info, but I got intrigued, thanks for playing
trix23 06:36 PM 08-25-2017
If you guys wanted to see my Handbook, should've just asked... would've had no issue uploading it.
Attached: Parent-Provider Handbook 8-25-17.pdf (1.76 MB) 
trix23 06:41 PM 08-25-2017
I very recently opened my Etsy shop. I opened my daycare Nov 2016. Started preparing for my business July 2013.

Any other dates you'd like to know???
Unregistered 07:31 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
she said that she would not make an issue of it if I changed the title page. so i did. no biggie. ask her yourself.

If you didn't copy it why would you change it? There wouldn't have been anything for her to make an issue of.
trix23 07:47 PM 08-25-2017
she claimed that it looked too similar to hers, so i changed it. the title page doesn't matter to me what's on it.
storybookending 08:26 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
If you guys wanted to see my Handbook, should've just asked... would've had no issue uploading it.
I don't want to start a fight but I know you've posted about struggling to get clients and to keep them. I would maybe take a look at some of your policies that might be scaring some people off. All of the mention of fees might be scaring some of them off.

A couple things that would be red flags for me:

Flat out telling parents they aren't allowed to pick up their own children for a 3.5 hr long period would not sit well with me. I understand it's not convienient but I would never withhold a parent from their child.

Having to wait for you to come answer the door would make me feel like my provider was trying to hide something. I get that you might not have the luxury of living in an area such as myself where you can just leave doors unlocked and have parents just walk in but the way you have it worded comes off very harsh and cold.

Demanding an infant be fed a full feeding within an hour of arrival isn't realistic either. You can't force feed an infant, if they aren't hungry for a full feeding within the hour of drop off you just aren't going to accept them for the day?

While I agree with not sending children home with a parent who appears under the influence you might want to check you state laws on that one. In my state we can not withhold a child from their legal guardian even if for example if they reek of alcohol. Instead we must release the child and immediately call CPS. It's ass backwards but that is the law here.


I know you just added the part about the limit to one parent conference every 6 months thing but I also think this makes it look like you are hard to work with. It basically says to a parent it's your way or the highway and you aren't willing to work with them.

Oh and the trial period you have listed isn't really a trial period for parents if it's only 2 weeks long and requires they give a 2 week written notice..

Please don't take these suggestions the wrong way. I am just trying to help. As a newer provider myself I understand wanting to be firm on your policies but sometimes you need to work for the daycare a bit before the daycare can work for you if you plan on doing this long term.
trix23 08:32 PM 08-25-2017
Thank you for your input. What changes do you suggest?
trix23 08:34 PM 08-25-2017
And for all of you demanding I submit my Handbook and that I copied her content, I'm waiting for apologies!
storybookending 08:51 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by trix23:
Thank you for your input. What changes do you suggest?
I think the main thing is all of the mention of the fees. I mean charging to be on a wait list? That sounds crazy to me. Is this a thing in other areas?

I would revamp the whole handbook if this were mine. It comes across as very cold and harsh and honestly it's a little wordy and I feel like you need a few years practice before parents will take some of these things serious. You want to set yourself up to be respected but at the same time you don't want to scare people away. A handbook like this is great for show but it's the experience that you will gain that will back it up.

I don't have a handbook currently. I'm in the process of putting together a portfolio that I'm sure I'll be adding to for years to come. I am diffenrt in that I had the luxury of enrolling family and friends of family to start out. My contract that lays out my policies is only 4-5 pages and just covers the basics. I don't want to come off as someone that I'm not. Truth is I don't have the experience so many members on this board have but I'm working damn hard to someday be able to be as respected as some of the members that post here. This is experience that only comes from doing this job for years. I think in your case less is more.
flying_babyb 10:20 PM 08-25-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Crazy how that goes because TN has us transition at 12 months... something I was already doing & parents knew from get go
Wisconsin says at one unless its night care, then its a crib till 2!
Love 07:22 AM 08-26-2017
I disgree with the "infants must be fed a full feeding before arrival" as well. Infants are usually on their own schedule and its part of our job to feed them when they are hungry...
Tags:biting the hand that feeds you, changing of the guard, copyright, copyright infringement, mats, problem parents
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