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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>A Mom Told Me She Is Signing My Name..
DanceMom 04:06 AM 10-25-2010
On her childcare reimbursement forms an submitting them to her employer...
I told her I had no problem signing them and to bring them in going fwd for me to sign.

I feel like terminating her for this...signing MY name to documents..who knows how much $$ she is putting down vs what she pays.
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MN Mom 04:13 AM 10-25-2010
Eeep! That is fraud. Period. Honestly I would terminate. I would also contact her employer and inform them that you have not signed anything in regards to her day care fees. Depending on this woman's persona..you may even need to contract a lawyer. I would, just to figure out your rights and to have a clear path on what to do.
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juliebug 05:04 AM 10-25-2010
wow i would possible terminate for that too you don't know how much she wrote down. I would tell her i need a copy of the form she sign my name on and all subsequent forms must be summited to me to be signed is she didn't do that i would term her.
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Pammie 05:05 AM 10-25-2010
Ditto what "MN Mom said"
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DCMomOf3 05:31 AM 10-25-2010
I'm with MN Mom too!
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sierrastreasures 07:14 AM 10-25-2010
If she has fradulently altered a document concerning money, I can't imagine what she would do claiming her end of year total for childcare to the IRS. The trust is gone.
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missnikki 08:13 AM 10-25-2010
This parent is going to get you audited! Give her one chance to give you copies of whatever she's forged, and go from there. If she doesn't (for ANY reason) tell her you are very uncomfortable with her decision to represent you and that because this is illegal, you will need to have her employer contact you so it can be straightened out. That's where I would start, anyway.
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MyAngels 08:20 AM 10-25-2010
I wonder what they'll do when suddenly the signatures are not the same? She may have just opened up a whole can of worms for herself. I think if it were me, I would prepare a letter on your letterhead showing the dates and amounts paid to you for care, and have her sign it acknowledging that it is correct so that you will have a paper trail in case anything ever comes of this.
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DanceMom 08:23 AM 10-25-2010
I do provider carbon copy reciepts weekly and give them to the parents and keep the copy for my records. Wouldnt SHE be the one that gets screwed if they dont match ? Arent I covered by providing my reciepts and having a copy of them?

Do you all give reciepts and make the parents sign them weekly?

Are you required to get copies of what they submit to their employers/IRS ?
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missnikki 08:28 AM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by DanceMom:
I do provider carbon copy reciepts weekly and give them to the parents and keep the copy for my records. Wouldnt SHE be the one that gets screwed if they dont match ? Arent I covered by providing my reciepts and having a copy of them?

Do you all give reciepts and make the parents sign them weekly?
I have the parents fill out their own receipts that they attach to the check. When I process the payment, I look to see that they match. They almost always do, and if they don't I have caught it before the payment goes to the bank. The 'payment slip' looks like this:

_____ SAC PROGRAM

Child(ren)’s Name(s): ____________________________________________

PAYMENT FOR WEEK OF: __________________________

AMOUNT PAID $_________________ CHECK #_________________

Parent signature ________________________________ Date___/___/___

___ I would like a receipt

Their receipt prints when I process the payment. Not on-the-spot. It's within a couple of days, and I give them a statement anytime they ask to see their account.
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laundryduchess@yahoo.com 08:37 AM 10-25-2010
,..I would call her employer 15 to 30 min before she gets off. So that by the time you are finished with your phone call she will have already left for the day and she wont be able to scam her employer in her favor. I would ask to speak to whoever is in charge of childcare reimbursment forms. I would tell them exactly what happened. I would ask that they forward to you copies of any forms she has submitted that had your signature on them. I would ask that that they scan them, and email them to you and send hard copies in the us mail. because you may proceed with legal proceedings if she false-ified any of the information in addition to forging your signature. The employer doesnt want to be implicated in trying to hide information like this because this is a seriuous crime. I would tell her at pickup,....

I have been thinking about how you told me this morning that you forged my signature on documents for your employer. I have contacted your employer and asked that they send me any documents that have my signature on them, I am also going to verify all items on the documents to insure that everything is the correct amounts. And that if there is a discrepancy you will notify her employer immediately. I would tell her that you are extremely upset that she would forge your name on a legal document and tell her that she not only broke the law, but also violated your trust. I would tell her that pending the outcome of the document review you may or may not preceed in the legal system. Forgery is illegal and if she needed you to sign something she could have just asked.

I then would draft up termination papers and hand them to her on the spot. If she were in my childcare facility,... this is terms for immediate termination without notice. Intentionally breaking the law and forging my name on a financial document,.. that is inexcusable. Especially since she has done it more than once. good luck,......
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MN Mom 08:40 AM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com:
,..I would call her employer 15 to 30 min before she gets off. So that by the time you are finished with your phone call she will have already left for the day and she wont be able to scam her employer in her favor. I would ask to speak to whoever is in charge of childcare reimbursment forms. I would tell them exactly what happened. I would ask that they forward to you copies of any forms she has submitted that had your signature on them. I would ask that that they scan them, and email them to you and send hard copies in the us mail. because you may proceed with legal proceedings if she false-ified any of the information in addition to forging your signature. The employer doesnt want to be implicated in trying to hide information like this because this is a seriuous crime. I would tell her at pickup,....

I have been thinking about how you told me this morning that you forged my signature on documents for your employer. I have contacted your employer and asked that they send me any documents that have my signature on them, I am also going to verify all items on the documents to insure that everything is the correct amounts. And that if there is a discrepancy you will notify her employer immediately. I would tell her that you are extremely upset that she would forge your name on a legal document and tell her that she not only broke the law, but also violated your trust. I would tell her that pending the outcome of the document review you may or may not preceed in the legal system. Forgery is illegal and if she needed you to sign something she could have just asked.

I then would draft up termination papers and hand them to her on the spot. If she were in my childcare facility,... this is terms for immediate termination without notice. Intentionally breaking the law and forging my name on a financial document,.. that is inexcusable. Especially since she has done it more than once. good luck,......
This. I 200% agree! Good luck.
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missnikki 08:55 AM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by laundryduchess@yahoo.com:
,..I would call her employer 15 to 30 min before she gets off. So that by the time you are finished with your phone call she will have already left for the day and she wont be able to scam her employer in her favor. I would ask to speak to whoever is in charge of childcare reimbursment forms. I would tell them exactly what happened. I would ask that they forward to you copies of any forms she has submitted that had your signature on them. I would ask that that they scan them, and email them to you and send hard copies in the us mail. because you may proceed with legal proceedings if she false-ified any of the information in addition to forging your signature. The employer doesnt want to be implicated in trying to hide information like this because this is a seriuous crime. I would tell her at pickup,....

I have been thinking about how you told me this morning that you forged my signature on documents for your employer. I have contacted your employer and asked that they send me any documents that have my signature on them, I am also going to verify all items on the documents to insure that everything is the correct amounts. And that if there is a discrepancy you will notify her employer immediately. I would tell her that you are extremely upset that she would forge your name on a legal document and tell her that she not only broke the law, but also violated your trust. I would tell her that pending the outcome of the document review you may or may not preceed in the legal system. Forgery is illegal and if she needed you to sign something she could have just asked.

I then would draft up termination papers and hand them to her on the spot. If she were in my childcare facility,... this is terms for immediate termination without notice. Intentionally breaking the law and forging my name on a financial document,.. that is inexcusable. Especially since she has done it more than once. good luck,......
Scratch my first idea, I like yours a lot lot lot better!
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DancingQueen 09:09 AM 10-25-2010
what was her reason for signing your name? (I'm just curious what would make someone think that is OK)
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DanceMom 09:15 AM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by sbschildcare:
what was her reason for signing your name? (I'm just curious what would make someone think that is OK)
She was telling me a story about getting some extra money to fix her car and that she had to submit a daycare reimbursement form..and was laughing..ohh I just signed your name to it, I didnt think you'd care" laugh laugh..

Um...I have no idea what would give her the impression that I wouldnt care.
I just looked at her and ( didnt laugh ) and said I would sign them and have no problem doing so.

Im going to ask her for a copy - tell her I need it for my records for my taxes in case of auditing..so I'll go from there.
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QualiTcare 11:53 AM 10-25-2010
i wouldn't terminate, honestly. i mean, if she told you to your face that she did it when in all likelihood you would have never known any other way - she probably wasn't trying to SCAM anything, but save some time from having to drive and get you to sign them.

that doesn't make it right, but terming someone for being honest? i dunno about that.
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DanceMom 11:59 AM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i wouldn't terminate, honestly. i mean, if she told you to your face that she did it when in all likelihood you would have never known any other way - she probably wasn't trying to SCAM anything, but save some time from having to drive and get you to sign them.

that doesn't make it right, but terming someone for being honest? i dunno about that.
Well she comes here everyday before work, I dont think it was to save time to drive here since she already comes here.

BUT I do agree about terminating. I read on Resource for child caring that basically what I can do, is give a year end statement to all families with the dollar amount they paid me for the year, have them sign it and also provide them a W-10. This way I am protected and whatever she does..thats her problem. Which this is what I am going to do along with reminding her to have me sign them going fwd.
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momofsix 12:12 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by DanceMom:
Well she comes here everyday before work, I dont think it was to save time to drive here since she already comes here.

BUT I do agree about terminating. I read on Resource for child caring that basically what I can do, is give a year end statement to all families with the dollar amount they paid me for the year, have them sign it and also provide them a W-10. This way I am protected and whatever she does..thats her problem. Which this is what I am going to do along with reminding her to have me sign them going fwd.
I agree, what I am wondering is what prompted her to tell you now?
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TomCopeland 12:16 PM 10-25-2010
The advice given here by providers is good. I have heard from other providers about the problem of parents signing employer forms in the name of the provider. Obviously this is illegal and can cause trouble for the provider if the parent collected more money from the employer than the parent paid the provider. The IRS could look at this and assume that the provider got all the money. Having the parent sign an end-of-year receipt will protect you.

BTW - if a parent doesn't spend all the money in their plan by the end of the year the provider should ask the parent to give to her. Any unspent money is kept by the employer. The provider is the only one who can get this money. Tell the parent you will buy some toys or make quality improvements in your program if they pay you the extra money.
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DanceMom 12:22 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by momofsix:
I agree, what I am wondering is what prompted her to tell you now?
I have NO idea...alls I can say is she is very random...always telling me random things..rants about her life ALL the time. She is also keeping this "extra money" from her husband - he doesnt know she sent it in this time.
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DanceMom 12:23 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by TomCopeland:
The advice given here by providers is good. I have heard from other providers about the problem of parents signing employer forms in the name of the provider. Obviously this is illegal and can cause trouble for the provider if the parent collected more money from the employer than the parent paid the provider. The IRS could look at this and assume that the provider got all the money. Having the parent sign an end-of-year receipt will protect you.

BTW - if a parent doesn't spend all the money in their plan by the end of the year the provider should ask the parent to give to her. Any unspent money is kept by the employer. The provider is the only one who can get this money. Tell the parent you will buy some toys or make quality improvements in your program if they pay you the extra money.
Thanks Tom, I was hoping you'd pipe in Appreciate your feedback !
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generalee72 01:41 PM 10-25-2010
I'm obviously new to the forum and have zero experience in the buisness. (trying to learn some info about opening a center)

That being said, if she's a good customer, with a good kid and she's worth keeping. I would definitely do what's necessary to protect myself/business, but at the same time be honest & clear about your position/predicament. She obviously trusts/respects/likes you at some level or she wouldn't have mentioned it, but at the same time she simply might not realize the position she put you in by doing this.

I know a few years back I tried to cash out a car insurance check through a friends collision shop. In retrospect I knew it was wrong, but didn't understand the risk he would have been taking, nor did I take into account the moral dilemma I was creating for him. As soon as he mentioned it was fraud and could impact him I scraped the idea and never thought about it again.

Short version: If she's worth keeping around, talk about it and protect yourself. If she's not worth keeping around drop her ass like an 8am sand-script class.
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Former Teacher 01:54 PM 10-25-2010
I totally agree with the posters that say terminate. I can't believe some of our more "seasoned" posters would not terminate. This is fraud, pure and simple.

Just imagine how it would have been had she NOT told you? Can you even begin to think of anything else that she may have signed your name to?

IMO...I think you should make sure you have all your information in order and then terminate. If you give her this chance..who knows what else she will pull in the future.
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Crystal 05:06 PM 10-25-2010
I would tell MOm that you want copies of all documents that she has signed. I would let her know that what she has done is unethical. If she has lied on the documents I would terminate, if she has not lied on the documents, I would let her know that you are highly offended that she would do such a thing without your permission.

Then, I would consider the standing relationship you have, decide if you are offended enough to pursue it further, and then make your personal decision on whether or not to terminate.
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Lucy 06:37 PM 10-25-2010
Wait, let's be clear. Is this truely REIMBURSEMENT from her employer? As in she pays you, but the employer pays her back making her Daycare FREE? In that case, it could be she is putting down more than she pays you and pocketing the extra.

OR is she on one of those flexible spending plans where you can have it set up on your paychecks to deduct pre-set amounts for child care (and medical and some other stuff), and it will not be part of your income for tax purposes? Because if that's the case, there's no extra to pocket and it's just a simple form that requires my signature once a month, and is really no big deal.

Just wanted to be clear.
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QualiTcare 08:11 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by Former Teacher:
I totally agree with the posters that say terminate. I can't believe some of our more "seasoned" posters would not terminate. This is fraud, pure and simple.

Just imagine how it would have been had she NOT told you? Can you even begin to think of anything else that she may have signed your name to?

IMO...I think you should make sure you have all your information in order and then terminate. If you give her this chance..who knows what else she will pull in the future.
some people think termination is the answer to everything. i don't.
it is unethical what this parent did, but as i said, if she were actually scamming money - i doubt she would've told on herself. i could be wrong as crazier things have happened, but if she signed the provider's name without actually "scamming money" i think it could be handled without terminating. asking for copies of the documents would be the rational thing to do IMO. if she hasn't doctored them (other than the obvious FORGERY) i would make it clear that she would be terminated if it happens again. more than likely, if it's been going on for any period of time, the provider can see how often the papers are turned in (monthly, bi-weekly, etc) and request to be given a document to sign based on that. of course, it's up to the provider if she wants to terminate, and it would be warranted. but you have to remember, the parent TOLD HER she did this - she's not being investigated by the IRS. unfortunately, termination is too often the advice given, and as we all know - that's not always realistic or necessary to solve a problem.
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marniewon 08:22 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
some people think termination is the answer to everything. i don't.
it is unethical what this parent did, but as i said, if she were actually scamming money - i doubt she would've told on herself. i could be wrong as crazier things have happened, but if she signed the provider's name without actually "scamming money" i think it could be handled without terminating. asking for copies of the documents would be the rational thing to do IMO. if she hasn't doctored them (other than the obvious FORGERY) i would make it clear that she would be terminated if it happens again. more than likely, if it's been going on for any period of time, the provider can see how often the papers are turned in (monthly, bi-weekly, etc) and request to be given a document to sign based on that. of course, it's up to the provider if she wants to terminate, and it would be warranted. but you have to remember, the parent TOLD HER she did this - she's not being investigated by the IRS. unfortunately, termination is too often the advice given, and as we all know - that's not always realistic or necessary to solve a problem.
I agree that termination is not always the answer, but where is the trust now, that mom forged dcp's signature. The fact that she told her could say that she had no clue it was wrong....but seriously, forgery is wrong, and most (all?) adults know that. I'm afraid, in that position that I would not be able to trust this dcp again. And anyway, dcm said she needed money to get her car fixed, so she forged the sig to get money from employer. If she could be doing this all along, why just start now when she needed extra money? Sounds fishy to me. I'm not saying term asap, but like others said, get copies of the documents that were forged, and compare them to records. If they are off, definitely term....if not, a warning might be enough. But still......will dcp be able to trust this mom again after this?
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QualiTcare 09:52 PM 10-25-2010
Originally Posted by marniewon:
I agree that termination is not always the answer, but where is the trust now, that mom forged dcp's signature. The fact that she told her could say that she had no clue it was wrong....but seriously, forgery is wrong, and most (all?) adults know that. I'm afraid, in that position that I would not be able to trust this dcp again. And anyway, dcm said she needed money to get her car fixed, so she forged the sig to get money from employer. If she could be doing this all along, why just start now when she needed extra money? Sounds fishy to me. I'm not saying term asap, but like others said, get copies of the documents that were forged, and compare them to records. If they are off, definitely term....if not, a warning might be enough. But still......will dcp be able to trust this mom again after this?
i agree, and again, it's up to the provider if she wants to term or not. i probably wouldn't assuming that the documents are legit other than my signature. i've had circumstances where i've had to have papers signed, and i've had people tell me, "just go ahead and sign my name." of course, this is different, because the parent didn't inform her until afterward, but she did inform her which tells me she's either really not aware how serious what she was doing was, or she felt REALLY comfortable with the dcp to inform her afterward. either way, i feel like immediate termination is jumping the gun because, as i said, if this was a parent that was really dishonest and trying to scam - she would've never said a word.
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Former Teacher 02:12 PM 10-26-2010
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i feel like immediate termination is jumping the gun because, as i said, if this was a parent that was really dishonest and trying to scam - she would've never said a word.
I don't believe terming the family is "jumping the gun". If I was the provider, and a family did that to me, it would all boil down to trust. I could never trust that parent again. I would always wonder what is this parent doing or has done.

The OP should count her lucky stars that the parent DID say something though.
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TomCopeland 08:26 AM 10-27-2010
Originally Posted by Joyce:
Wait, let's be clear. Is this truely REIMBURSEMENT from her employer? As in she pays you, but the employer pays her back making her Daycare FREE? In that case, it could be she is putting down more than she pays you and pocketing the extra.

OR is she on one of those flexible spending plans where you can have it set up on your paychecks to deduct pre-set amounts for child care (and medical and some other stuff), and it will not be part of your income for tax purposes? Because if that's the case, there's no extra to pocket and it's just a simple form that requires my signature once a month, and is really no big deal.

Just wanted to be clear.
I've not heard of a situation where the employer reimburses child care expenses to the parent as free child care.

If a parent has a flexible spending plan this means that the parent has set aside some of her salary to pay for child care expenses. Money is taken out of her paycheck and put into her flexible spending plan. When the parent submits child care receipts to the employer the employer takes money out of the parent's plan and gives it to the parent. None of the money that flows through this plan is taxable income to the parents. However, any money a provider receives from the parent is taxable to the provider!

Let's say a parent sets aside $400 a month into her plan. The provider charges $350 a month (I know this is low!) and the parent submits a receipt to the employer (signed by the parent, not the provider) for $400. The employer pays the parent $400 and the parent pockets the $50. This happens and it is illegal.
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Tags:fraud, illegal, terminate
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