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MommyMuffin 05:54 AM 08-21-2011
I was just wondering if anyone else practices attachment parenting techniques with their own children and/or daycare children.

I am practicing attachment parenting as well as grace based parenting with my own children but I am having a hard time doing so with the daycare children.

It takes a lot of time and I find that I dont have sufficient time to "connect" deeply with each daycare child while making meals, cleaning, changing diapers. How do you grow that connection with your dc kids? I know that I am not their parent but I would like to be an important part of their lives and it seems they are not connecting or attaching to me. It seems they only need me for FOOD, they dont initiate or ask for hugs, cuddling, sweet words...hardly a goodbye to me when parents arrive. Just want to know I am making a difference and that they see me as a caregiver during the time they are in my care.
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MommyMuffin 05:55 AM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
I was just wondering if anyone else practices attachment parenting techniques with their own children and/or daycare children.

I am practicing attachment parenting as well as grace based parenting with my own children but I am having a hard time doing so with the daycare children.

It takes a lot of time and I find that I dont have sufficient time to "connect" deeply with each daycare child while making meals, cleaning, changing diapers. How do you grow that connection with your dc kids? I know that I am not their parent but I would like to be an important part of their lives and it seems they are not connecting or attaching to me. It seems they only need me for FOOD, they dont initiate or ask for hugs, cuddling, sweet words...hardly a goodbye to me when parents arrive. Just want to know I am making a difference and that they see me as a caregiver during the time they are in my care.
Does anyone else practive gentle parenting or attachment parenting?
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cheerfuldom 08:58 AM 08-21-2011
I am very familiar with attachment parenting and I don't personally believe that this is possible in a daycare setting. Attachment parenting is based on the close physical attachment of one child with one parent....there is no way to recreate that in a daycare scenario especially when you are not the parent. AP parents normally co-sleep, breast feed and such to foster that bond and of course, those aren't things you can do with your daycare kids. The biggest influence in a child's life is their own parent so you aren't going to be able to singlehandedly override the style of parenting that this child is receiving at home. In my opinion, I specifically don't create this bond with my daycare children because I have my three kids under four years old in the house during daycare hours. They should have a different relationship with me than the daycare kids. I do hold my daycare babies, give hugs and such but my own kids receive this close bond that is special between me and them. The daycare kids are not my kids, I am not their parent, I do not want that type of relationship with them and I think they should have that with their own parent, not me. I don't want them crying for me when they are at their own home or when they are leaving my home, thats not healthy when their own parent is right there trying to soothe them. I do think that you are well meaning in what you are trying to do but I just don't personally feel that it is realistic in a daycare setting. This style is for parents, not caregivers, and it is the parent that should have the time and commitment for this type of thing if they choose to do it. Your job is to take care of the kids not be their parent. In the reverse, I don't feel that kids raised AP style are suited for daycare at all and their parents are not either. AP is all about that one on one bond and that is not going to happen outside of a nanny situation. You can try and use some techniques but don't overdo it because you are going to burn out quickly. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I also would not offer this type of care to parents because they will be disappointed when the caregiver is not able to give their child that because there are however many other kids to care for.
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Sunshine44 10:20 AM 08-21-2011
No, I do not do it with my child or my dcks. I have also been feeling like I'm not totally connecting with the dcks though. I feel like I do not have enough time in the day to really connect and work with them like I want to.
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cheerfuldom 10:25 AM 08-21-2011
I think we all feel like that Sunshine. Taking care of kids is so multitask oriented that it is hard to find that one on one face time that is needed to bond. I heard someone say that is why humans have one, maybe two kids at a time....not a litter. We just aren't made to be able to fully parent 6 to 12 young ones (or more!) at a time.
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MommyMuffin 12:59 PM 08-21-2011
I suppose you are right cheer! It is a lovely idea for some of the concepts to overlap into daycare but I feel like I am running around in circles.

I do want that relationship with my own children and I co-sleep, wear my baby and exclusively breast feed and I am trying to learn more ways of AP.

Is it okay to take special (extra) care of my children and provide dcks with essentials; food, support, toys, activities, encouragement, smiles, hugs.

I guess I am having a little guilt trip over how much more attention my children are getting. Perhaps I shouldnt.

thanks cheer
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daysofelijah 04:06 PM 08-21-2011
I am very AP with my own kids, but not AT ALL with daycare kids. I am not even "huggy" with dcks. Just never felt the desire to bond with kids that are not own in any close sort of way. Another big reason I am getting out of daycare, I really feel no attachment to the kids or parents and I think parents want a provider who is more attached than what I can (or want to) be.
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SilverSabre25 04:20 PM 08-21-2011
I am very AP with my own kids but not so much with dcks. I tried in the beginning, but found quickly that it just doesn't work very well. I try to be affectionate and cuddly with the dcks, to an extent, and I use positive discipline techniques with them. They hug me and tell me they love me (and I say it back when they say it but I don't initiate that), they are sometimes thrilled to come and sad to go--but sometimes sad to come and thrilled to go and that's fine too.
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cheerfuldom 04:22 PM 08-21-2011
There is nothing wrong with how you are feeling mommymuffin. You SHOULD have a special relationship with your own kids. One that is so much more unique than what you have with your daycare kids. You are the mommy to your own children. The daycare kids already have parents and its not right to try and overstep your bounds and perhaps unintentionally take that spot. Its a hard balance between providing a great environment for your daycare kids but always making sure that they understand that you are their teacher, not mommy or anywhere close to mommy. There are some parents that say they want AP style provider but if it came down to it, they don't want their child bonding with the provider more than with them. Thats not normal. Just remember OP that the daycare kids have their own rooms, toys, parents, special activities at home that your kids don't get to be a part of. Don't feel that your own kids have to share everything just because the daycare is at their own home. Its something that a lot of providers and provider kids struggle with (I know we do!) but I have long since stopped feeling guilty about it. My own kids are required to follow the same rules for the most part but they do get time in their own room away from the daycare kids or special outings with daddy while I am working and that sort of thing. I am not going to deprive them in the effort of making things fair because at that point, my own kids are the ones that are not being treated correctly. I used to stress so much about trying to keep everything perfectly equal between my kids and the daycare kids and the only thing that caused was a headache and also unhappiness and jealously from my own kids (who are all still under four). Now that I have stopped doing that, everyone is much happier. For instance, if everyone is doing reading time, I am not going to feel guilty if my own child gets a few extra minutes in my lap reading. thats the perk for me and them with me being home all day. They sacrifice tons in other ways so I'm not going to worry about a few other things here and there especially since I haven't found that the daycare kids really care anyway.
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nannyde 04:36 PM 08-21-2011
I don't do attachment parenting and honestly I don't know much about it so I can't really compare what I do DO with it.

I'm VERY attached to my day care kids. I love them so much. I would give my life for them. I cry for months when they age out of care or move. It's heartbreaking to me.

I have one going to Kindy this week and I'm devestated.
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cheerfuldom 05:06 PM 08-21-2011
From the sounds of it, it is very different from what you do nanny. The main thought is that you meet your child's emotional needs and bond with them through physically being close as much as possible. Co-sleeping, baby wearing, breast feeding (extending well into the toddler years if preferred) are big parts of it. You can google Dr. Sears to get more info. AP parents are also really big into non-vaccinate, non-circumsize, very healthy diets, natural health remedies (like using amber necklaces to help teething babies), child led weaning or child led parenting where you tailor your parenting to meet that particular childs needs or even preferences (such as not putting them on strict schedules, sometimes not even on daily routines period). Its very "one on one" style. No cry-it-out, holding babies as much as they want, that sort of thing. Almost all of the AP parents I know only have one child, maybe two at the most. A few hard core AP parents that I know (some previous daycare parents!) have really had to change it up once baby #2 or #3 came along because at this point you might have three kids in bed with you, nursing two at the same time, babywearing one or even two at a time and that sort of thing. My sister is very AP and she tried to do daycare. She called me completely exhausted because it was not working at all. She ended up closing her daycare because she wasn't willing to alter what she did with her own kids (like co-sleeping for naps) in order to keep the daycare families. I do some of the AP stuff but not at the expense of my sanity. We move our kids from co-sleeping once it is working for us, I stopped breastfeeding before one year with each of my older two, I don't babywear after a child can walk, etc. I think there are a lot of good ideas with this but like anything, you can take it to an extreme.
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nannyde 05:39 PM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
From the sounds of it, it is very different from what you do nanny. The main thought is that you meet your child's emotional needs and bond with them through physically being close as much as possible. Co-sleeping, baby wearing, breast feeding (extending well into the toddler years if preferred) are big parts of it. You can google Dr. Sears to get more info. AP parents are also really big into non-vaccinate, non-circumsize, very healthy diets, natural health remedies (like using amber necklaces to help teething babies), child led weaning or child led parenting where you tailor your parenting to meet that particular childs needs or even preferences (such as not putting them on strict schedules, sometimes not even on daily routines period). Its very "one on one" style. No cry-it-out, holding babies as much as they want, that sort of thing. Almost all of the AP parents I know only have one child, maybe two at the most. A few hard core AP parents that I know (some previous daycare parents!) have really had to change it up once baby #2 or #3 came along because at this point you might have three kids in bed with you, nursing two at the same time, babywearing one or even two at a time and that sort of thing. My sister is very AP and she tried to do daycare. She called me completely exhausted because it was not working at all. She ended up closing her daycare because she wasn't willing to alter what she did with her own kids (like co-sleeping for naps) in order to keep the daycare families. I do some of the AP stuff but not at the expense of my sanity. We move our kids from co-sleeping once it is working for us, I stopped breastfeeding before one year with each of my older two, I don't babywear after a child can walk, etc. I think there are a lot of good ideas with this but like anything, you can take it to an extreme.
I know a little about the techniques as you described. I've heard about these over the years. What I don't understand is the "net" result of it. I haven't researched it enough to know how the kids fare in an exceptional or positive way because of it.

I haven't researched it because it doesn't really interest me.

Not against it in any way. I don't see how it would work in child care over the long run but what do I know.

I'm not into baby wearing, co-sleeping, or one to oneing kids. I love "group" care.

When my son was little I just switched his schedule to the opposite of the day care kids. When they were up he was down... when he was up they were down. As he got older their times collided but I had pretty strict schedules in place to make sure he had a "family" life while I did day care.

He's never eaten with the kids. He's never shared a room. He has his own toys and his own space. We moved into this house when he was thirteen months old. I bought this house to have the space to give him a separate life. He bopped in and out of the day care at will but was never offered as a playmate to the kids.

At eleven it's not an issue now. He has his own gig.

Now if I had more than one.... it would have been way harder to make happen.

I did child care for a couple of decades before he was born. I was in my seventh year of home day care when he came along. I was pretty established as a provider by then and had developed my relationships with the kids .... my "way" with them ... LONG before he was born.

Nothing changed when he came along. I feel the same way about the kids as I always have. I loved them then as I do now. Having a child didn't affect the way I felt about the kids I care for.

For me.... I couldn't be with someone five days a week for five years and not be crazy for them. I don't try to not get attached to the kids. As hard as it is when they leave......

AND IT'S REALLY REALLY HARD


I can't help but love them.

I just do.
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cheerfuldom 05:56 PM 08-21-2011
I think the general thought is that if you do this style of parenting, you are closer with your child and able to better met their needs and in turn, the child trusts you more and forms a secure attachment to the parents and is then in a healthier frame of mind to become independent. Like I said, I like some of the ideas (which actually aren't anything "new" like co-sleeping) but I don't believe that this style is the only way to form a close bond with your child or them with you. I was actually doing some of these things before I even knew there was a trendy parenting style revolving around them. I started cloth diapering my oldest and sort of became more familiar with the ideas because a lot of AP parents are also really into environmentally friendly choices like cloth diapering.
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nannyde 06:10 PM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
I think the general thought is that if you do this style of parenting, you are closer with your child and able to better met their needs and in turn, the child trusts you more and forms a secure attachment to the parents and is then in a healthier frame of mind to become independent. Like I said, I like some of the ideas (which actually aren't anything "new" like co-sleeping) but I don't believe that this style is the only way to form a close bond with your child or them with you. I was actually doing some of these things before I even knew there was a trendy parenting style revolving around them. I started cloth diapering my oldest and sort of became more familiar with the ideas because a lot of AP parents are also really into environmentally friendly choices like cloth diapering.
I am confident that there are many ways to net a great secure and balanced kid. That's for sure.

I wouldn't consider wearing a kid past really newborn and I don't believe in child led in general. From my experience, most crying infants do isn't about something being wrong that needs to be fixed. I look at crying more as a way to blow off excess steam and a way for them to steady themselves or "even out".

Of course there is hunger crying, "uncomfortable" crying, and medical/health issues crying.... but most crying for healthy babies who are having their feeding, sleeping, lovins, etc needs met.. is just exercising. With experience you can almost always tell the difference. Being in the business of stopping or solving crying completely would be exhausting to me. I've seen way too many kids who have had "no cry" parenting and they are.... IME... way fussier than the ones who are raised where they are allowed to express their little feelings without a solution every time by an adult.

So the no crying part of AP wouldn't work for me. The co-sleeping is impossible in this setting and the wearing would have worn me out years ago. I can't see having longevity in this business (i'm talking decades) with a child led, wearing, no cry approach. I know "I" wouldn't be able to manage it but hey... whatever works for you. To each their own.
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sharlan 06:16 PM 08-21-2011
My question is, what happens when this child enters school or the real world and there is no one there to meet their every need and want?
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Danielle 06:30 PM 08-21-2011
I'm very much an AP mom. I think of being AP as in being more in tune with the children and assuming the child has good intentions. I just read this blog post tonight and it really sums up how AP is for toddlers and preschoolers: http://www.positive-parents.org/2011...ermissive.html

I'm also very AP with babies I care for. That's the main reason I really limit how many babies I care for at a time. I don't hesitate to wear a baby. I obviously don't nurse them but there's a way to bottle feed a baby in an AP way. The babies I care for don't sleep in my arms all the time but they don't cio either.

There is a way to run a daycare with AP in mind but low numbers are a must! I do feel the attachment much more with kids that start with me as babies. Toddlers are more difficult.
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VanessaEO 06:36 PM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
From the sounds of it, it is very different from what you do nanny. The main thought is that you meet your child's emotional needs and bond with them through physically being close as much as possible. Co-sleeping, baby wearing, breast feeding (extending well into the toddler years if preferred) are big parts of it. You can google Dr. Sears to get more info. AP parents are also really big into non-vaccinate, non-circumsize, very healthy diets, natural health remedies (like using amber necklaces to help teething babies), child led weaning or child led parenting where you tailor your parenting to meet that particular childs needs or even preferences (such as not putting them on strict schedules, sometimes not even on daily routines period). Its very "one on one" style. No cry-it-out, holding babies as much as they want, that sort of thing. Almost all of the AP parents I know only have one child, maybe two at the most. A few hard core AP parents that I know (some previous daycare parents!) have really had to change it up once baby #2 or #3 came along because at this point you might have three kids in bed with you, nursing two at the same time, babywearing one or even two at a time and that sort of thing. My sister is very AP and she tried to do daycare. She called me completely exhausted because it was not working at all. She ended up closing her daycare because she wasn't willing to alter what she did with her own kids (like co-sleeping for naps) in order to keep the daycare families. I do some of the AP stuff but not at the expense of my sanity. We move our kids from co-sleeping once it is working for us, I stopped breastfeeding before one year with each of my older two, I don't babywear after a child can walk, etc. I think there are a lot of good ideas with this but like anything, you can take it to an extreme.
Attachment Parenting International describes AP as: <<<Attachment Parenting challenges us as parents to treat our children with kindness, respect and dignity, and to model in our interactions with them the way we'd like them to interact with others.>>>

Obviously - I would guess that most of us practice this with our DCKs.... We treat them with respect. We model how we want them to behave. We use positive reinforcement. We don't belittle or yell. (At least not a lot )

Here is a great link to get started for anyone wanting to learn more about attachment parenting... http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/intro.php

I consider myself an attached parent and an attached DCP. I don't co-sleep, breastfeed or baby wear with my daycare kids. Well, when they are new-new-newborns I wore them. But I treat them with love, I bond with them through bottle feeding. I make nap time a secure, calm environment. (Rather than yelling at them to lay down, you know?)

However, with my own kids. I extended breastfed, co-slept and wore them. I wore my daughter occasionally until she was about 2ish.

Baby wearing an older child doesn't have to be an all the time thing, but if we were out and about... like at the park and she wanted to nap - I would wear her on my back so she could nap there and my son/older DCKs could keep playing.

I'm expecting now and due in November. I haven't done my own newborn + daycare before - so we will see how things go. But I expect to rely more heavily on my wrap to nurse and baby wear. Even more than I did when my 2nd child was born.

Also, I wanted to say in regard to the above comment about the number of children and AP --- most of my close friends that are attached parents have AT LEAST 3 children. Its totally doable. And you don't have to nurse until your child is 6 to fully "attach" to your children.
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Danielle 07:01 PM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by VanessaEO:
Attachment Parenting International describes AP as: <<<Attachment Parenting challenges us as parents to treat our children with kindness, respect and dignity, and to model in our interactions with them the way we'd like them to interact with others.>>>

Obviously - I would guess that most of us practice this with our DCKs.... We treat them with respect. We model how we want them to behave. We use positive reinforcement. We don't belittle or yell. (At least not a lot )

Here is a great link to get started for anyone wanting to learn more about attachment parenting... http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/intro.php

I consider myself an attached parent and an attached DCP. I don't co-sleep, breastfeed or baby wear with my daycare kids. Well, when they are new-new-newborns I wore them. But I treat them with love, I bond with them through bottle feeding. I make nap time a secure, calm environment. (Rather than yelling at them to lay down, you know?)

However, with my own kids. I extended breastfed, co-slept and wore them. I wore my daughter occasionally until she was about 2ish.

Baby wearing an older child doesn't have to be an all the time thing, but if we were out and about... like at the park and she wanted to nap - I would wear her on my back so she could nap there and my son/older DCKs could keep playing.

I'm expecting now and due in November. I haven't done my own newborn + daycare before - so we will see how things go. But I expect to rely more heavily on my wrap to nurse and baby wear. Even more than I did when my 2nd child was born.

Also, I wanted to say in regard to the above comment about the number of children and AP --- most of my close friends that are attached parents have AT LEAST 3 children. Its totally doable. And you don't have to nurse until your child is 6 to fully "attach" to your children.
Great post! I get what you're saying about numbers. Most of the families in my local AP group have large families. I just think there's a difference when those kids aren't your own (as far as numbers). kwim? It also depends on the family the kids are coming from. DCK of mine that have come from AP families fit in much better than those that don't. In my experience it's also easier to find that attachment to the AP DCKs too....unless they start as an infant.
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Hunni Bee 07:25 PM 08-21-2011
I'm positive you can't do any sort of AP in a center, groupcare setting...unless the child-adult ratio was ridiculously low...

But Im very hands-on, touchy feely with my dcks...I've always been like that. Probably because I don't have any kids of my own. My kids talk to me all day, they pile on me for hugs and kisses when they see me in the morning, if Im sitting down, there's someone (or two) in my lap. We say I love you all day long, and mean it. All my new kids bond to me very quickly.

We tend to keep kids longer that the average center, but I do have kids coming and going a lot. It used to hurt when they stopped coming, but it doesn't anymore...and that doesn't affect how I bond to them while they're with me.
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cheerfuldom 08:06 PM 08-21-2011
Originally Posted by sharlan:
My question is, what happens when this child enters school or the real world and there is no one there to meet their every need and want?
I think the thought is that this type of bonding nets a child that is secure and independent and able to better enter the world. At kindergarten age, they would no longer need an adult to meet every need.
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cheerfuldom 08:11 PM 08-21-2011
Oh and I agree that this type of thing is doable in some large families, I just don't personally know any families larger than three kids that do this, the vast majority I know are one child families (and I know A LOT). However, it is a whole 'nother ball game to try and implement these things with daycare kids versus your own children as the OP is finding out. I agree that there are plenty of other ways to bond with a child but I think that AP parents generally feel that the physical closeness is a type priority. If you provide this type of care, it is much more realistic to have a low, low ratio
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Oneluckymom 09:46 PM 08-21-2011
I guess I'm an AP mom but didn't know this is what it is called. I breastfed both my children for two years and my daughter a little over two years. I have always coslept and continue to do so now. My kids are 6 and 4. Children definitely become attached and automatically call for mommy for everything...I don't think they have ever called out for my husband during the night ( not saying this is such a good thing..lol).
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Cat Herder 04:16 AM 08-22-2011
IMHO, Every 5 years or so somebody puts a buzz word name on some "NEW " parenting/educating style... It always cracks me up.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE going to antique book sales to grab old books that always seem to have "NEW" techniques in them. It is like they had a crystal ball or something.

I keep looking for lottery numbers in them, but have not found the winning number there, yet.

Does anyone really think they were the first to think of this stuff?

I parent as my kids need it.

It changes based on whatever challenges we are facing. Life is an adaptive marathon.

Raising babies is just the threshold of parenting, IMHO. Very similar to the honeymoon and wearing makeup to bed.
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Cat Herder 04:41 AM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
It seems they only need me for FOOD, they dont initiate or ask for hugs, cuddling, sweet words...hardly a goodbye to me when parents arrive. Just want to know I am making a difference and that they see me as a caregiver during the time they are in my care.
Sounds like confident kids secure in knowing they are safe and cared for to me.

IME, attention/love/security starved kids act COMPLETELY differently.
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KEG123 05:04 AM 08-22-2011
I guess I fall into attachment parenting. Although as you've seen by my other thread I have spanked on occassion, which I do not like doing. It is few and far inbetween. Anyways, we coslept for 18 months, breastfed for 2 years, babywore ALL the time, basically lived by the 7 B's that Dr. Sears mentions in his books.

It is DEFINITELY harder to do some AP things in a daycare setting, and some are easier. The most important B is "balance" IMO.

Here is a good link, might help you get back in your "AP groove"...
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/att...t-ap-7-baby-bs
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MommyMuffin 06:25 AM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by Catherder:
Sounds like confident kids secure in knowing they are safe and cared for to me.

IME, attention/love/security starved kids act COMPLETELY differently.
Aww that is sweet!
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littlemommy 06:33 AM 08-22-2011
I practice AP with my son and will when my 2nd is born. It is what comes natural to me-with my own children.

When I started doing daycare, I thought it was something that could easily be done with the daycare kids. The problem is, the parents don't practice the same parenting techniques, and I just never bonded with the daycare kids to care for them that way.

One of my main struggles is with infants. I do not like making babies CIO, but if that's what they are use to at home, it seems to be the only thing that works in a daycare setting. I have a (verrry cranky) 11 month old, and in the 3 months he's been with me, has been very fussy. Mom says when he gets that way, she puts him in a dark room by himself and lets him CIO. I've tried a couple different things here with him, and that seems to be the only way to get the boy to sleep. It's hard for me to do.
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nannyde 07:17 AM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by Danielle:
I just read this blog post tonight and it really sums up how AP is for toddlers and preschoolers: http://www.positive-parents.org/2011...ermissive.html


Ummm

I'm DEFINITELY not an AP'er

Way too much chaos in redirection.

Your 18 month old is a little explorer. She really likes to climb too! She can even climb up in the chair, then up on the kitchen table.

Positive reaction: The first time your child attempts to climb on the table, you intervene, saying "Climbing is fun! Let's find a safe place for you to climb. This table is not safe." Let her climb over some couch cushions, if she wants. Climbing itself is not a misbehavior. She may conquer Mount Everest one day! The goal is to keep her safe and teach her what is appropriate. The next time she heads for the table, immediately and gently take her from the table, repeating the above. If she gets upset, aknowledge her upset. "I see you're mad. You want to climb, but that isn't safe. Let's go play over here."[/b]


It shouldn't take SEVENTEEN words to tell an 18 month old to not climb on your stuff and they shouldn't be rewarded with an adult giving them something else to do at the MOMENT to distract them or pacify them. We shouldn't build excitement into the NO like "Climbing is fun! Let's find a safe place for you to climb." That's where the chaos is.

Can climb here
Can't climb here

or

"Get down"
"NO table"

or

"Get down"
"No table"
"Go play"

Use caution tone and firm tone.

I swear we have completely gone off our parenting rocker. No other mother in the animal kingdom would do ANY kind of version of this when protecting their young from danger.

We have completely lost our understanding how simple human babies are.
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cheerfuldom 07:31 AM 08-22-2011
See I told you you weren't an APer nanny The example is perfect why this does NOT work in a daycare setting with numerous young children. A mom with one youngster can easily accommodate the climbing and allow a kid to use the couch cushions instead or find some replacement to redirect but when you have a group in your care, the rules have to fit the group not just what one youngster prefers.
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rjskids 07:49 AM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:


Ummm

I'm DEFINITELY not an AP'er

Way too much chaos in redirection.

Your 18 month old is a little explorer. She really likes to climb too! She can even climb up in the chair, then up on the kitchen table.

Positive reaction: The first time your child attempts to climb on the table, you intervene, saying "Climbing is fun! Let's find a safe place for you to climb. This table is not safe." Let her climb over some couch cushions, if she wants. Climbing itself is not a misbehavior. She may conquer Mount Everest one day! The goal is to keep her safe and teach her what is appropriate. The next time she heads for the table, immediately and gently take her from the table, repeating the above. If she gets upset, aknowledge her upset. "I see you're mad. You want to climb, but that isn't safe. Let's go play over here."[/b]


It shouldn't take SEVENTEEN words to tell an 18 month old to not climb on your stuff and they shouldn't be rewarded with an adult giving them something else to do at the MOMENT to distract them or pacify them. We shouldn't build excitement into the NO like "Climbing is fun! Let's find a safe place for you to climb." That's where the chaos is.

Can climb here
Can't climb here

or

"Get down"
"NO table"

or

"Get down"
"No table"
"Go play"

Use caution tone and firm tone.

I swear we have completely gone off our parenting rocker. No other mother in the animal kingdom would do ANY kind of version of this when protecting their young from danger.

We have completely lost our understanding how simple human babies are.
I agree! We had a behavioural spe******t come into our classroom to help us with a challenging child and she STRESSED to make your directions simple and only a few words "We SIT at the table" DONE. "We don't rip books, we LOOK at books" DONE. She not only helped us with that child but she helped up completely revamp our entire room and way of teaching to make all directions easy and understandable.

All the years I've worked with children you can always tell which children are from "AP parenting" or whatever fancy word it's been over the years. We teachers just plainly call it "having the hold-mes"
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Meeko 08:07 AM 08-22-2011
I must be old fashioned. I didn't wear my kids. I didn't co-sleep with my kids. I gave my kids the choices I WANTED to give them. (the red shirt or the green shirt. The blue shirt is not an option)

I have always taken the stance that my job is to raise my children to be independent, resilient adults. So far so good (oldest is 29 and my youngest is 15)

My kids got lots and lots of hugs and kisses from both myself and my husband. Still do! We are very affectionate people. But at the same time I want my kids to grow up knowing that their parents are there for them...but not their be all and end all of everything.

I believe that my ultimate goal is to teach them to function WITHOUT me. Of course I will love them and "be there" for them. But they need to be strong adults. I'm not sure how a parent would switch from doing everything for their child to teaching them to be independent at a later date.

Maybe I have seen attachment parenting gone wrong. We had a next door neighbor who parented this way. At my son's 4th birthday party, the child could not function without his mother. No other parents stayed. His mother couldn't even cross the room and be 10 feet away from him.. He couldn't feed himself as she cut up his food, etc. She felt her "closeness" with her son was important. He slept with them every night. I saw it as pathetic to tell the truth. The co-dependancy was almost creepy. The other kids were noticibly distant from the boy too. They didn't want to play with mom too and they were a package deal.

When the kids started kindergarten, of course there were tears from a few kids. This child had to pried from his heavily crying mothers arms. I've never seen such over the top drama. My son said the boy cried every day, all day for weeks. Several times, the mother had to be called to come and try and calm him, but she ended up taking him home. To me it just seemed a big mess. I fail to see how it was healthy in any way shape or form.

He would be 26 now and I have a feeling he is still living at home with his mother who is rushing around trying to make him happy 24/7. And as the mother never had any alone time with her husband...I am pretty certain their marriage didn't make it past a few years. Even at 4 years old, it was obvious that dad took a backseat in his wife's life.

I have been married for 30 very happy years. Had our children slept in our bed....I don't see how we could have stayed that way!!!! My relationship with my kids is very close. But they will one day all be gone off on their own and it will be me and my sweetheart left behind. My husband never has been and never will be second to my children. I cannot fathom spending my childrens early years so wrapped up in the kids that I didn't have time to be a couple. How does a husband share intimacy with a wife who is always carrying or sleeping with their child?

Just my opinion, I know. I agree with Catherder. One of these days some other "new and fantastic" parenting system will appear.

For now...I'm having great success doing it my way. Power to any parent who raises great kids regardless of "method"!
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nannyde 08:44 AM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
See I told you you weren't an APer nanny The example is perfect why this does NOT work in a daycare setting with numerous young children. A mom with one youngster can easily accommodate the climbing and allow a kid to use the couch cushions instead or find some replacement to redirect but when you have a group in your care, the rules have to fit the group not just what one youngster prefers.


I'm all for introducing fun climbing to an 18 month old. I'm all for the excitement and the exercise of cushion climbing. The problem I have is WHEN it's done.

18 month olds are simple minded. They take their cues from their leader.

When the 18 month old is climbing on something dangerous and creating a dangerous fall zone it is NOT the time to do anything other than stop it and tell her no.

The reward to her is that she is safe and that she has an attentive adult to lead her and tell her right from wrong.
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MommyMuffin 11:46 AM 08-22-2011
Well after reading that I certainly dont agree with all things AP!!! That is ridiculous!
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VanessaEO 04:08 PM 08-22-2011
I'm not sure where all that "Climbing is fun..." nonsense came from. But I don't treat 18 month olds like adults, nor do any of my AP friends. I talk to them in as few words as possible. Like nannyde - Get down. Go Play. No table. Etc. It would said sternly, but kindly. I wouldn't yell or man-handle them to get them off said table. I wouldn't put them into time out. It would go like this....

"Get down." Child climbs down or I gently get them down. Then I say. "Go Play". If they were looking kind of like the table looked like more fun - I would go with them to the playroom and get out something that they might like - say a puzzle. I would gently sit them on the floor and dump out the puzzle pieces. I MIGHT put ONE puzzle piece in the puzzle. I MIGHT walk away.

AP isn't about babying your children until the end of time.

You don't have to let them do whatever they want to "respect them". You don't foster co-dependency. The goal isn't permissive parenting AT ALL. Positive discipline isn't permissive parenting. These aren't the same things. You don't let them get away with anything and you don't reason with 2 year olds. (you might however use reasoning with a 4-6 year old depending on the kid)

AP is about respecting your children. Plain and simple. Its about creating an environment that respects them and fosters a bond between you. In plain English, I mean you don't yell, belittle or man-handle. You talk to the children like they matter, because to you - they do.
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SilverSabre25 05:05 PM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by VanessaEO:
I'm not sure where all that "Climbing is fun..." nonsense came from. But I don't treat 18 month olds like adults, nor do any of my AP friends. I talk to them in as few words as possible. Like nannyde - Get down. Go Play. No table. Etc. It would said sternly, but kindly. I wouldn't yell or man-handle them to get them off said table. I wouldn't put them into time out. It would go like this....

"Get down." Child climbs down or I gently get them down. Then I say. "Go Play". If they were looking kind of like the table looked like more fun - I would go with them to the playroom and get out something that they might like - say a puzzle. I would gently sit them on the floor and dump out the puzzle pieces. I MIGHT put ONE puzzle piece in the puzzle. I MIGHT walk away.

AP isn't about babying your children until the end of time.

You don't have to let them do whatever they want to "respect them". You don't foster co-dependency. The goal isn't permissive parenting AT ALL. Positive discipline isn't permissive parenting. These aren't the same things. You don't let them get away with anything and you don't reason with 2 year olds. (you might however use reasoning with a 4-6 year old depending on the kid)

AP is about respecting your children. Plain and simple. Its about creating an environment that respects them and fosters a bond between you. In plain English, I mean you don't yell, belittle or man-handle. You talk to the children like they matter, because to you - they do.
Very well said!
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youretooloud 06:20 PM 08-22-2011
Originally Posted by MommyMuffin:
Does anyone else practive gentle parenting or attachment parenting?

I kinda do. Mine are grown now, and when they were little, it wasn't a term I'd ever heard. I really never, ever want to share my bed with anybody.... sometimes not even my husband, but certainly not kids. So, I part ways at the family bed.

I do babywear, and I do not ever punish or spank. I don't use time out, and it's worked remarkably well for us! But, I am the grownup, I do not take orders from the children. I care about what they want, and how they feel. I always put myself in their head before getting mad... But, In the end, I make the choices. I make options available when I can/want to, but I don't always ask them what they want first.

I have great respect for children. If I have two colors of cookies, I'll ask them, but if I have 6 colors, I don't ask, because it just means someone's feelings will be hurt, and they won't get a choice. I want to be fair to everyone, not just a few.
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Blackcat31 07:30 AM 08-23-2011
Just wondering why "parenting" has to have any type of label?

I parented my children. I taught them manners, self-sufficiency, independence and everything else that was required of me as a parent.

I have no idea what category or fancy word this type of parenting falls under but in my book, it was simply raising a child to be an honest, dependable, contributing adult member of society.

AP parenting???
PG parenting???
ABC parenting???

I dunno, I practiced MOM parenting.
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cheerfuldom 08:19 AM 08-23-2011
I know, I don't like the labels either. My husband calls us "free stylers". We just pick from here and there and do whats best for our family. I think some people find comfort in the label though because it is easier to find other like minded families in play groups or online communities. The thing I don't like is that some moms keep doing everything "AP" because they are sort of boxed in by the label and continue the techniques even when it is clearly not working for them and/or the kid. In some hard core circles, it is pretty scandalous for an APer to admit that they want the baby out of the bed, that they have considered CIO, that their kid has candy on a regular basis, etc.
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Meeko 08:53 AM 08-23-2011
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Just wondering why "parenting" has to have any type of label?

I parented my children. I taught them manners, self-sufficiency, independence and everything else that was required of me as a parent.

I have no idea what category or fancy word this type of parenting falls under but in my book, it was simply raising a child to be an honest, dependable, contributing adult member of society.

AP parenting???
PG parenting???
ABC parenting???

I dunno, I practiced MOM parenting.
Exactly this! My four turned out OK without some kind of label or system!
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