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Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Something Wrong With Child?
midaycare 06:25 PM 06-19-2014
I have a new dcg. This is her second week, but she is only part time, so today is her 5th day with me. She will be 2 in August.

She seems ... a little slow on the uptake. I don't know how else to explain it. I have another dcg who is almost the same age - within a week, so I have a good measure of what that age looks like. Here are my concerns:

1) New dcg never had an issue of adjustment. She didn't mind when her parents left - even the first day. She gets dropped off, she goes to play, doesn't even look back for a hug.

2) Dcg is slow moving. Toddlers, in my experience, move fast. They are clumsy, sure, but they want to move towards toys, and run away, and go explore. Not dcg. She kind of hangs around. She might look at things here and there, but for the most part, she will walk slowly to grab something, slowly look at it, show it to me, and then drop it. Then she will repeat this.

3) No real words yet. She does a few signs, and I have been able to get her to say about 5 words, but she rarely even makes noises. She will point to something within reach, look at me and say, "eh, eh." She actually wants me to hand it to her. I tell her to get it. Then she does. Then she repeats the process with something else within reach.

4) She eats everything. She even tried to lick my cat. I know some kids like to eat things, so maybe not a big issue.

5) Because she doesn't really have words or sounds, she does an all body shake when she is excited or nervous. Looks like a little seizure (but is not). Every time she sees my cat I think I'm going to have to call 911. And oddly, when she cries, she also makes no noise. I will be looking at her, and all of a sudden, a tear drops. She will usually cry if I leave the room to go potty.

Any ideas? I really can barely tell she is there, and I try my best to engage her, but ... I'm out of ideas. She is literally a bump on a log. I'm thinking there must be something wrong.

I suspect lazy parents. I can't say for sure.
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preschoolteacher 06:38 PM 06-19-2014
I suspect TV. Too much at home. Not enough engagement, talking, playing.

It's good she cries when you leave, though. It shows she understands adults are a safe presence and she's forming trust and bonds. But none of the kids I have that age would cry if I left the room for a minute... But the 12-14 months old would.
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ihop 06:56 PM 06-19-2014
This sounds JUST like my nephew. Similar age. He does all of those things except the cat licking...
He spent a lot of time at home not being socialized and it takes him a while to warm up, even to me. He's been in care two months and is just starting to play and talk. He used to just stand around and watch. When he real, really wanted to play he would walk slowly and barely do anything before putting the toy away again.

When he is at home he talks up a storm and runs amuck. Just different environments really effect him. Sorry im no help. But your dck isn't the only one.
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preschoolteacher 07:05 PM 06-19-2014
Can she talk? Or does she just not talk at daycare? I'd ask her parents.
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midaycare 07:15 PM 06-19-2014
Originally Posted by preschoolteacher:
Can she talk? Or does she just not talk at daycare? I'd ask her parents.
She can not talk. They chose my daycare because it is more of a learning center/home daycare. The parents said they were "so worried" she could not talk and they were in the process of getting early services for her.

But ... I have gotten her to talk, with A LOT of work. I have her saying things like "no-no", "dog", "cat", "meow". Parents claim she only grunts and makes "eh-eh" noise at home. This is why I think parents are lazy.

I also think it's weird that parents seemed so concerned about her learning and talking, and when I update them every day, they now seem to care less. For people who wanted their dd to talk, when I tell you she is talking, that's a pretty big deal. Oh, and by the way, go home and practice with her! Sorry, rant over.

I just wonder with her slow-ness of walking, and moving too, is it something more than tv? Or does tv have that affect on kids? I had 2 kids that really liked tv that I termed after 1 night. Two brothers, 2.5 and 1. They were obviously raised on tv. But they were wild!
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NightOwl 07:50 PM 06-19-2014
They care less because you are doing THEIR job, which is what they were hoping for. They want results without any effort on their part. Some people, I swear.... My first thought is that she sounds very introverted. Does she make eye contact? Is she Ok with being touched? Do different textures bother her or the tags in her shirts? What about repetitive movements like rocking or opening/closing doors over and over?
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midaycare 08:00 PM 06-19-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
They care less because you are doing THEIR job, which is what they were hoping for. They want results without any effort on their part. Some people, I swear.... My first thought is that she sounds very introverted. Does she make eye contact? Is she Ok with being touched? Do different textures bother her or the tags in her shirts? What about repetitive movements like rocking or opening/closing doors over and over?
The only thing that I have noticed out of those you listed is that she has a space issue. Not necessarily with me, although she is not wanting hugs, kisses & cuddles like the others. But she will want to sit near me. If, however, another child would like to sit near her, she starts grunting and will push them away.

Other than that, great eye contact, and no rocking. I have noticed textures. She will touch different things and seems okay - she just doesn't play with anything for long.

She's also a scarily good sleeper. Put her in a pack and play and she doesn't even need to settle. Boom! She's asleep. If she wakes up early, and you don't take her out right away, fine. No fuss. Weird.
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craftymissbeth 08:04 PM 06-19-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
The only thing that I have noticed out of those you listed is that she has a space issue. Not necessarily with me, although she is not wanting hugs, kisses & cuddles like the others. But she will want to sit near me. If, however, another child would like to sit near her, she starts grunting and will push them away.

Other than that, great eye contact, and no rocking. I have noticed textures. She will touch different things and seems okay - she just doesn't play with anything for long.

She's also a scarily good sleeper. Put her in a pack and play and she doesn't even need to settle. Boom! She's asleep. If she wakes up early, and you don't take her out right away, fine. No fuss. Weird.
I'm sold! We can meet up somewhere or you can have her shipped
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NightOwl 08:38 PM 06-19-2014
I'll take 5 please. Lol.
I feel like something is up. The lack of expressive emotion or expressive speech is troublesome. She obviously feels emotion because you said you had seen her cry, even though it was silent. And she seems to ask permission to take things from your description of the "eh, eh" and pointing. This behavior as a whole is just not normal toddler behavior. I am SO going to be berated for this but I'll say it anyway. Her behaviors sound like a description of a sociopath when they were a child. "He never interacted much....", "she was never outwardly upset when she should have been...", "he seemed to always bottle things up....", etc. There. Flame me. I'll be the bad guy.
Anyway, her lack of any obvious attachment to her parents is probably the most concerning. Sometimes there's a honeymoon period with children where the first couple of days are awesome and magically perfect, then reality sets in for them that coming to you (and be separated from parents) is not a novelty but will be a regular occurrence. Then the honeymoon is OVER! Lol. They spend the next two months throwing an all out hissy at drop off. So is it possible she is still in the honeymoon phase? That's a much more appealing thought than you having a sociopath on your hands.
Yes, it is a good sign that she becomes upset when you leave the room, but that's not attachment. That's a security thing. You make her feel secure. But she's not showing any signs of distress when her parents leave? What does THAT say??
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midaycare 03:57 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
I'm sold! We can meet up somewhere or you can have her shipped
Ha ha! I know, I know. But something just feels "off".
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midaycare 04:02 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Anyway, her lack of any obvious attachment to her parents is probably the most concerning. Sometimes there's a honeymoon period with children where the first couple of days are awesome and magically perfect, then reality sets in for them that coming to you (and be separated from parents) is not a novelty but will be a regular occurrence. Then the honeymoon is OVER! Lol. They spend the next two months throwing an all out hissy at drop off. So is it possible she is still in the honeymoon phase? That's a much more appealing thought than you having a sociopath on your hands.
Yes, it is a good sign that she becomes upset when you leave the room, but that's not attachment. That's a security thing. You make her feel secure. But she's not showing any signs of distress when her parents leave? What does THAT say??
I do not think this is a honeymoon period. It's still early, but she never even seems to care at drop off. Just, "okay, I'm here now." My son was pretty easy going, but he wouldn't have been okay with a new daycare, and he always wanted hugs, kisses, cuddles before I left.
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NightOwl 04:19 AM 06-20-2014
I would definitely encourage mom to proceed with services. Do you have an evaluation you could do to see where dcg is at developmentally? I like Ages and Stages.
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midaycare 04:22 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I would definitely encourage mom to proceed with services. Do you have an evaluation you could do to see where dcg is at developmentally? I like Ages and Stages.
Funny you should mention that, I was looking for a good eval for my kids. That's one of the ones I was looking at.
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midaycare 04:28 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
I would definitely encourage mom to proceed with services. Do you have an evaluation you could do to see where dcg is at developmentally? I like Ages and Stages.
Wednesday, which form of Ages & Stages do you use & is there a free version?
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taylorw1210 04:51 AM 06-20-2014
I have a little girl who was like this when I got her. She was never socialized with other kids, was always with adults, and was babysat by the television. She was so emotionless when I first got her. She also never interacted with any of the other kids in my care and had some pretty weird behaviors. It took me quite a while to get her to warm up to interacting with other kids, but she still prefers to be playing on her own - mom still does not socialize her with other kids outside of daycare and she's only with me 3 days/week. I've had her almost a year and she's very emotional now (she turned 2 in March) and talks up a storm. Although I've also considered having her evaluated because some of her behaviors are still just... off.
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NightOwl 04:54 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
Wednesday, which form of Ages & Stages do you use & is there a free version?
Someone here posted a free version and I bookmarked it. I'll see if I can find the link...
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Angelsj 05:14 AM 06-20-2014
ASQ

Toward the bottom.
This child sounds like one who is either left in front of the TV, perhaps strapped into a jumper or seat early on, as well as left to her own devices for long hours in her crib. She is used to being alone and not being interactive with people.
I agree with Wednesday. The parents want you, the school or anyone else to "fix" their kid with no effort on their part.
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midaycare 05:49 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
ASQ

Toward the bottom.
This child sounds like one who is either left in front of the TV, perhaps strapped into a jumper or seat early on, as well as left to her own devices for long hours in her crib. She is used to being alone and not being interactive with people.
I agree with Wednesday. The parents want you, the school or anyone else to "fix" their kid with no effort on their part.
This is just sad. I really try to screen people well, and the parents interviewed perfectly. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character. Dang it! Well, I'm sure this won't be the first time I get a "tv kid".
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NightOwl 05:49 AM 06-20-2014
Yes that's it ^^^^!! Have you considered she may be on the autism spectrum? Lack of speech, empathy, outward communication, social interaction? I've been reading up on sociopathy, psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, etc, and sooooo much of it goes back to early parenting. Something called pathogenic parenting actually encourages mental illness in children.
Not to say this child is for sure mentally ill. I'm just trying to point you in some possible directions.
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midaycare 06:34 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Wednesday:
Yes that's it ^^^^!! Have you considered she may be on the autism spectrum? Lack of speech, empathy, outward communication, social interaction? I've been reading up on sociopathy, psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, etc, and sooooo much of it goes back to early parenting. Something called pathogenic parenting actually encourages mental illness in children.
Not to say this child is for sure mentally ill. I'm just trying to point you in some possible directions.
This is my first time doing early, early education. I have worked with K-12, but this is my first go-around in birth-age 4. Besides my own son, of course. By the time I would get the kids, they would usually be diagnosed, or in the process of being diagnosed.
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midaycare 06:44 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
ASQ

Toward the bottom.
I can't seem to find it on the link. It's Friday and I'm under-caffeinated. Help!
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Angelsj 06:53 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by midaycare:
This is my first time doing early, early education. I have worked with K-12, but this is my first go-around in birth-age 4. Besides my own son, of course. By the time I would get the kids, they would usually be diagnosed, or in the process of being diagnosed.
They must have moved the links.
Here is the 24month one.
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midaycare 07:14 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Angelsj:
They must have moved the links.
Here is the 24month one.
Thank you!
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MarinaVanessa 07:35 AM 06-20-2014
If you wanted to you could also use the DRDP (Desired Results Developmental Profile). It let's you assess where the child is in every domain. Let me get to my laptop and I'll post links and more info. It might be helpful to use both the DRDP and the ASQ. You can give a copy of both to the parents and it may help them to give it to whoever does their child's official assessment.
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Blackcat31 07:41 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
If you wanted to you could also use the DRDP (Desired Results Developmental Profile). It let's you assess where the child is in every domain. Let me get to my laptop and I'll post links and more info. It might be helpful to use both the DRDP and the ASQ. You can give a copy of both to the parents and it may help them to give it to whoever does their child's official assessment.
http://www.desiredresults.us/

Here is the link to the forms
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MarinaVanessa 08:00 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
http://www.desiredresults.us/

Here is the link to the forms
And as always BC is on her game

Just in case you don't want to go fishing through the website for everything here it is:

DRDP for Infants and Toddlers (to age 3) PDF.
Really it's not that hard to fill one out. The only advice I can give you is that when you make assessments you give DCG 30 days to adjust to the new evironment and then assess her. This way she is more comfortable and less cautious (even though she may not show it the way most children show it). Also Assessments shouldn't be like a test, make them casual. Figure out what you want to assess first and then set out a few materials/toys/activities that can help you and then just sit back and observe or play along with her and have casual conversation. I wouldn't write anything down in front of her or press her for answers or to do things, it may make her nervous and then your results may not be accurate. You want the behavior to be natural, not forced

Infant/Toddler DRDP Rating Record PDF.
This is the score-sheet you use to record the observations/results.

If you need more help and more examples you can skip through the pages of the Infant/Toddler Learning Foundations. This is aligned to work with the DRDP and tells you about where a child should be based on general age range and gives you examples of what you might see in each of the categories.

I know they all have "CA Department of Education" plastered all over them but anyone can use them anywhere and really other states have something similar but they call them development "standards" instead of "foundation". You know CA, always has to do their own thing and be all frou-frou.

Another thing that I wanted to mention was that the ASQ is designed for parents to fill out. They fill it out and give it to you and it can/may help you when you fill out the DRDP. Sometimes you can't answer one of the "questions" because you haven't "observed" the behavior so you can use the ASQ answers to fill it out on the DRDP (just note that you got the answer from the parent etc.)

If you decide to use the DRDP and need help or have questions just let me know.
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midaycare 10:34 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by MV:
If you wanted to you could also use the DRDP (Desired Results Developmental Profile). It let's you assess where the child is in every domain. Let me get to my laptop and I'll post links and more info. It might be helpful to use both the DRDP and the ASQ. You can give a copy of both to the parents and it may help them to give it to whoever does their child's official assessment.
That's a great help, thanks!
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midaycare 10:34 AM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
http://www.desiredresults.us/

Here is the link to the forms
Thank you BC!
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sahm1225 12:08 PM 06-20-2014
Could she be hard of hearing? That would explain her not really speaking and the soundless crying.
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MotherNature 03:44 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
Could she be hard of hearing? That would explain her not really speaking and the soundless crying.
Iwondered this as well. Have her parents had a hearing test done or seen a speech pathologist? I'd recommend it.
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Crystal 05:47 PM 06-20-2014
You can do the on line ages and stages questionairre for free and it calculates the results for you here:

http://www.easterseals.com/mtffc/asq/

FYI....typically this tool is completed by the parent, not the child care provider or teacher. Programs use it, but it is intended to be sent home with the parent to complete and then the program calculates the results. It can be completed by the provider though if the parent chooses not to do it.
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midaycare 05:57 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Crystal:
You can do the on line ages and stages questionairre for free and it calculates the results for you here:

http://www.easterseals.com/mtffc/asq/

FYI....typically this tool is completed by the parent, not the child care provider or teacher. Programs use it, but it is intended to be sent home with the parent to complete and then the program calculates the results. It can be completed by the provider though if the parent chooses not to do it.
Great! Thank you
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midaycare 05:58 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by sahm1225:
Could she be hard of hearing? That would explain her not really speaking and the soundless crying.
Good idea
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nannyde 06:19 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Crystal:
You can do the on line ages and stages questionairre for free and it calculates the results for you here:

http://www.easterseals.com/mtffc/asq/

FYI....typically this tool is completed by the parent, not the child care provider or teacher. Programs use it, but it is intended to be sent home with the parent to complete and then the program calculates the results. It can be completed by the provider though if the parent chooses not to do it.
Miss you boo ;-)
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Crystal 06:47 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Miss you boo ;-)
Right back at ya! I have a crazy busy weekend but we should chat soon. Tuesday afternoon perhaps?
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nannyde 07:09 PM 06-20-2014
Originally Posted by Crystal:
Right back at ya! I have a crazy busy weekend but we should chat soon. Tuesday afternoon perhaps?
Yeah yeah! I have a phone conference at one my time for an expert witness case I am doing that should last about two hours. I should be done by three my time... one yours. I will keep the rest of the afternoon free as I know your time is precious!

I want to talk to you about a business idea if you have time. I will gladly pay your consult fee!
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midaycare 01:56 PM 06-21-2014
I just wanted to update that yesterday I was able to get dcg to laugh and dance a little (a little). I'm thinking this is more a case of a child with no socialization and who has been left alone a lot.

Still doesn't seem to care if she is around her parents or not, but she seems to like it at daycare, so I can work with that.

Thank you everyone!
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Tags:developmental delay, milestones
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