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  #1  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:47 AM
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Default How To Get Babies To Sleep At Daycare

I currently watch two babies (8 months and 10 months) who are very light sleepers and just in general not good sleepers. I am really at a loss for what to do...

I have them napping in different rooms (but the rooms are right next to each other) with multiple fans and white noise. However, they continue to wake up about every 15 minutes... if I ever get them to sleep. I have been going in there to try to reassure them it's okay every time they wake up, but I just can't keep doing that! Also, I feel like going in there to "get them back to sleep" every time they wake up is only teaching them they need me to go to sleep.

I also care for a 3 year old and a 2 year old who play in the playroom while the babies nap... so I need to be able to watch them as well, which I feel like I can't always do if I'm constantly going in and out of the babies nap rooms.

Oh, I should mention, I don't think the babies are waking up from noise because I've gone in there with the fans and white noise on and I can't hear a thing even with the other kids in the playroom playing.

I stress out about letting the babies cry because I live in an apartment and I don't want to bother my neighbors.

Do any of you have suggestions of what to do?
Any baby experts out there?!?

Thank you! Hope you're all enjoying your Friday
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:51 AM
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Sorry, but they have trained you to come in there when they cry. You have to let them cry it out & be consistent about it. (If they are fed, diapered, etc.) Worry about the neighbors when they complain.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:52 AM
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yeah...I think you just need to let them cry at this point. When they get into a lighter sleep cycle and wake up a little, you're going in there just wakes them fully. A LOT of kids cry in their sleep, which doesn't mean they are ready to get up.

I have sort of a policy that if you wake up crying, you must still be tired. This doesn't apply to tiny ones, of course...

I would warn your closest neighbors that you are sleep training a couple little ones, and there may be a bit of fussing for a few days (like all of next week..lol). Maybe they're not even home during the day....
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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Sorry, but they have trained you to come in there when they cry. You have to let them cry it out & be consistent about it. (If they are fed, diapered, etc.) Worry about the neighbors when they complain.
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yeah...I think you just need to let them cry at this point. When they get into a lighter sleep cycle and wake up a little, you're going in there just wakes them fully. A LOT of kids cry in their sleep, which doesn't mean they are ready to get up.

I have sort of a policy that if you wake up crying, you must still be tired. This doesn't apply to tiny ones, of course...

I would warn your closest neighbors that you are sleep training a couple little ones, and there may be a bit of fussing for a few days (like all of next week..lol). Maybe they're not even home during the day....
How long would you let them cry?
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:02 AM
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I agree....they are counting on you coming in when ever they cry. It will probably take a good 5 days (maybe less) to get them re-trained.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:11 AM
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This reminds me of when my daughter was an infant. I too lived in an apartment and didn't want her to cry and bother any neighbors-we had thin walls and there were only 6 apartments in the building so you could hear EVERYTHING! Anywho, I would always go straight to her room when she would cry, at night I would go into her room every time she made a peep. Let me tell you, it just got worse! Fast forward a year we were still in the apt. and my daughter was a toddler. Well, she learned that every time she made a peep someone would go get her, so every night she needed to be put to sleep or she would just cry. It was getting ridiculous, but again, I didn't want to bother the neighbors.
Well my mom had to stay with us for a couple of weeks. She saw how ridiculous bed/nap time was and wouldn't put up with it (she had to share my daughters room). So she would put her in there and let her cry. I was heartbroken, but something needed to be done. Well low and behold a week or two passed and after a week or so of being consistent and letting her cry it out, she finally would sleep on her own. And I didn't get one complaint from a neighbor! I guess my point is, be consistent and lay them down and walk away. Hopefully after a while they will get used to it and sleep. And like others have said, worry about the neighbors when they complain, maybe they aren't even there during the day. Good luck! Happy Friday to you too!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:13 AM
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How long would you let them cry?
A long as nap time is, according to you. Then go in and say "nap time is over..."

Set a reasonable schedule for them, and stick to it. They are old enough to catch on. Probably a 45 min-1 hr nap in the am, then playtime, outdoor time if possible...lots of fresh air. Then lunch, diapers, story, lullaby, and nap for everyone... 2-2 1/2 hours.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:19 AM
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I agree with the others, let them cry it out. It only takes usually a week or two of training with cry it out for them to get it down. It is hard but it's worth it and they need their sleep.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:32 PM
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Okay I'm going to try it. Thank you so much everyone!!
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:36 PM
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Okay I'm going to try it. Thank you so much everyone!!
YOU GOT THIS!!!
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:25 PM
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You might also try making the rooms as dark as you can, and I also use a scent only in the sleeping areas to set the mood for sleep. I use lavender.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2013, 05:34 PM
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I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2013, 06:22 PM
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I have all the kids nap at the same time. So, except for a morning cat-nap (which I don't really care about) the kids are all either awake together, or asleep.

I do put babies in their own rooms too. I don't expect them to sleep in the same room as the other kids.

I've really never had any infants who didn't sleep really well, so I don't have any ideas to help. I know how frustrating it would be though.

But, at the age you are talking about, they should be able to sleep a good solid two hours at the same time the others are napping. But, they are at an age, where they don't want to miss out on any fun.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
Interesting information. It makes sense if you think about it! I know I told the OP to put the baby in the crib and walk away, but I'll admit that's not the answer. I personally go get my son when he cries so I don't know why I told her to do the opposite. Now I feel bad doing it to my daughter when she was a toddler, but like you said, by the time she was 1-1 1/2 she was developmentally ready to know to go to sleep on her own. Anyways, I definitely learned something new today!
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:50 AM
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Well we all have our viewpoints but I have also had training on why not to do CIO. But here is my theory. yes crying does reduce some oxygen and stress and cortisol levels will rise each time they cry.

But I see it this way. If I try hard for even 2-4 weeks and can get them in a schedule and they learn to put themselves back to sleep and hardly cry at all after that. Isn't that more beneficial to them and me? We are both not as stressed.

Eventually they don't even cry when you put them down at all, they know the routine and they don't cry when they wake up. They learn that you will come at a certain time or they can babble and you will come. You do get to a point to where you can have a baby that is trained to not cry all day, you know their cues and they know the routine. To me that is much better than the kids that are NOT allowed to cry it out initially.

I have had parents NOT use proper cry it out methods and night time battles just go on and on. You start early and are consistent you have a calmer better behaved child.

I will take a short term mild loss of oxygen and stress any day over a long term chronically stressed and fussy spoiled child. Most parents I see who are afraid to let their child cry it out also are the types of parents who have boundary issues with their kids, those things can go hand in hand frequently. The firmer parents are typically more consistent IMO and have better behaved less stressed children.

Like many things methods change, new studies come out and more things are pulled into context. I know I am not marry poppins and I can't get 8 kids to sleep well and for very long in one room and very few people can. I mean real sleep like for a couple hrs.

So for the rest of us separate rooms for babies, 10-15 minutes of cry it out, consistent times and routines, white noise. I feel is a more realistic way of getting a baby to sleep.

Do what you feel works for you and the parents.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
I agree with this.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
This is a much better approach. I am not sure if the above posters meant what that sounded like, but to walk away and let a young (under a year) baby cry for 1.5 to 2 hours??!! I hope no one is really doing that. As a parent I would be furious to find out a provider was letting my little baby cry for 2 hours.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:33 PM
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This is a much better approach. I am not sure if the above posters meant what that sounded like, but to walk away and let a young (under a year) baby cry for 1.5 to 2 hours??!! I hope no one is really doing that. As a parent I would be furious to find out a provider was letting my little baby cry for 2 hours.
I don't think that is what they meant at all. Or at least what I was thinking. The nap would be 1.5- 2 hours long, but I don't think any child would cry for that long (nor would any provider let them). There would be something else the child needs if they are crying for 30+ min (IMHO). I think they are saying to get the babies on a sleep schedule, you just start doing it - and eventually they catch on. But as long as the sleep schedule is reasonable, the children should be tired around those times and therefore should fall asleep shortly after lying them down IME.

My children are on a similar sleep schedule to the ones mentioned here, and we implemented it by laying them down and x time each day, and turning on the lights at x time. They might have cried for maybe 10 min the first day, and after a week, they were down to minimal fussing before they fall asleep.

If a baby is persistent and crying longer than say 15-20 min, we reevaluate anything that they could be wanting, most of the time it is an off schedule bottle (we give bottles to anyone who is close to needing one before nap time) - we give the bottle and typically then they fall asleep.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:58 AM
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I have two pre toddlers, 10months and 12months that also have a early nap and I have gotten to learn their distress cry and their I just don't want to be in here cry. Just as you learn with your own children. So if you don't let them cry some how do you learn their different "Cries" and modes of communication.

Not to mention if they don't nap how the rest of everyone's day is going to go especially theirs. It is our responsibility to not give into wants because we often know what they need and a small nap is important just as eating and oxygen.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:45 AM
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I am all for letting them cry just not for very long! CIO is not for babies. Babies need to know that their needs are going to be met but not all of their wants.
They NEED to sleep but WANT to get up!
I agree with Marina and this is exactly what I do!



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:04 AM
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ok...NO, I did not mean let them cry for 1.5-2 hours.

I meant put them in bed and if they fuss for a few minutes, that ok. I'm thinking after 5-7 minutes, they'll be out. If they wake up after 15 minutes, that's not even one sleep cycle, so then I would let them fuss again for a few minutes. I would let them do this on-and-off thing for a morning nap of 45min-1 hour, and then for an afternoon nap of 1 1/2-2 hours.

I've had babies come here that are terrible sleepers and miserable awake because they are tired. Usually, in a week or so they get the routine if I'm consistent, and instead of screaming when they go to sleep, they snuggle in and wake up happy.

But, I am really, really consistent about it (and only if they are developmentally ready, which varies, usually 6-8 months). They know we eat (breakfast or lunch), they get a fresh diaper, I sing a little lullaby, I give them hugs and kisses and I Love you's, and then I tuck them in and walk away. When nap time is over, I come in...bright smile.."nap time is over" "did you have a nice nap?" "ok, now lets go play"

I tell you, honestly that by the end of a week or two at most, I have them convinced they love napping!
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:31 AM
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A long as nap time is, according to you. Then go in and say "nap time is over..."

Set a reasonable schedule for them, and stick to it. They are old enough to catch on. Probably a 45 min-1 hr nap in the am, then playtime, outdoor time if possible...lots of fresh air. Then lunch, diapers, story, lullaby, and nap for everyone... 2-2 1/2 hours.
Great advice! Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
I agree!
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:55 AM
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I understand both side of this, I have a 6 month old that sleeps for 1/2 hour in the morning and another 1/2 hour in the after noon. He needs more sleep, he is tired but he will not go back to sleep. If I were to leave him up there to CIO for our full nap time he would be crying for 1 1/2 hours, he will not stop! If I go in to sooth him he will not stop, so soothing him until he stops crying and then walking out doesn't work either. Basically his parents have trained him that they will get him up every time he makes a noise. He can get himself to sleep here but it takes 10-15 minutes of crying most days, some days it's only 4-5 minutes. Any thoughts on how to get this little guy to sleep longer? I am postitive that even though his parents know that I have to let him cry at times, they don't at home at all.
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaVanessa View Post
I'm going to stand on the opposite side of the spectrum here and say that because they are infants under 12 months that the CIO method may actually be harmful to them. I've read articles and have had trainings and taken child development courses that have said that allowing infants under the age of 12 months to cry for longer than 15 minutes at a time can be harmful. The infant stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

There have been studies that show that infants that have the CIO method used on them have increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. Of course these are all worst case scenarios in babies that are often left to CIO and not the common case.

Babies that young are still in the early stages of early brain development and letting a child that young cry for long periods of time can cause chronic stress in that baby. That in return can lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which can then later turn into the child being more aggressive, impulsive, and violent.

I would completely agree with the CIO method if the child was older than 1 year (when the brain has mostly finished it's early stages of development) but not before then.

For now I would simply allow the infant to cry for short periods of time (a few minutes) and then go in and sooth the child with my voice and my touch but not pick the baby up. Once the baby stopped crying I would walk back out of the room. You would pretty much be teaching the baby that doesn't yet know how to self sooth that just because you are not in the room you are still nearby and available. As time goes on (depending on the baby) I would then add a few more minutes and prolong my reaction time as the baby got better and better at feeling secure about being alone.

By no means is this easy or quick, some babies learn quicker than others depending on their personalities, but it can be done. It just takes patience. I have all of my DC kids sleep in the same room now and it works. That includes a 4mo, 7mo, 1yo, two 2yo's, 3yo. 4yo and an 8yo. It took a while but it got easier over time.

Either way I hope you have luck .
I do cry it out in 15 min intervals. If they cry longer than 15 min I go get them and bring them out to play for a bit. Must not be tired enough to sleep. I don't think it's possible to do anything else though unless you are in a center with multiple teachers. How else do you supervise the other children? and if the kids don't sleep it won't be long before the parents are looking for another center that can make sure their child rests
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