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  #1  
Old 05-05-2018, 09:54 AM
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Default Would You Even Consider This Child?

I will have two openings this summer.... I have not actively been marketing those as I do not mind having a light summer enrollment.... that said I will miss the income from those two spots (especially in summer as I pay for summer camps for my school age dd).

Monday I was contacted by a potential dcm who was a referral from a parent at my dd's school who is her coworker, we spoke months ago by phone but potential dcm wanted something full day so I emailed her a list of full day programs I would suggest checking out.

Monday she emailed thru my site asking to chat by phone and have dcb start the next day! This would have been sight unseen. I emailed her and scheduled a time to chat by phone on Thursday. She shared her son has been hitting others in his preschool and biting which she is blaming on their increased class size and the teachers not doing time outs or any sort of disciple other than redirection. Again she was pretty much ready for him to start on Monday at this point.... I scheduled a tour date for her and said I would offer a trial day for him at my day rate but honestly I am not sure I want to manage/retrain a child who hits and bites? I already have one very physical dcb in my program I adore him but he is rough and a couple of my current dcps and dcks complain about him so I already am trying to actively watch that dcb I worry this one joining the group could set my current dcb back.....

Is it just me or does it seem:
- Potential dcm is desperate because they were likely given notice from their current preschool provider?
- Adding her dcb could set back the entire group?
- She works full day but said either her parents who when they can she would make my pick up time work.... which was something in the past she said she absolute could not do.

Would you even offer a tour? Would you even consider this child?
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:04 AM
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I have a few immediate thoughts.

1. Yes, it sounds like she's desperate and since she had talked to you previously and you have a mutual friend/contact, you would have the highest likelihood of enrolling him ASAP.

2. Children can act differently from setting-setting. It's not a guarantee he will be a difficult child just because he was in the last setting. Sure, there is a higher chance he might be and I would be apprehensive due to that. But, again, not a guarantee.

3. The fact that she NOW is saying grandparents can do the shorter hours leads me to believe she is thinking short term with you and has a future plan already in place.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:25 AM
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My heart would not be in it. Due to the fact he's a known biter and if I wasn't actively looking for another dck for the summer it wouldn't be that important to me to fill the spot. I do agree that kid dynamics change from one environment to another but if you're already dealing with 1 little guy that's challenging, why add another possible one? Are you going to take him for a trial day to see how it goes? A day might tell you if he won't work out but one day might not show you his biting habit. Who knows.
Some thoughts might depend on why your current dcb bites, does he need a playmate to run around outside with? Is he the only boy, does he need extra attention, is he going through the terrible 2's, etc.? And same questions for this potential dcb. Does he only bite at his current preschool and how often has it happened?
Good luck with your decision!!
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
I have a few immediate thoughts.

1. Yes, it sounds like she's desperate and since she had talked to you previously and you have a mutual friend/contact, you would have the highest likelihood of enrolling him ASAP.

If I enroll him ASAP which is before these other two dcbs leave then I will need an assistant more hours than I have at present ASAP. So for this month I will make little to no profit off his enrollment.


2. Children can act differently from setting-setting. It's not a guarantee he will be a difficult child just because he was in the last setting. Sure, there is a higher chance he might be and I would be apprehensive due to that. But, again, not a guarantee.

Yes I agree with this which is why I initially said I would do the tour and trial day but thinking of the potential impact on the other dcks has me worried.

3. The fact that she NOW is saying grandparents can do the shorter hours leads me to believe she is thinking short term with you and has a future plan already in place.

I require a one year contract Sept - June so if that is the case it would mess up my fall enrollment and is it even worth the effort if she plans to do that? I do see red flags with the grandparents can magically make my hours now.... she can be their back up if they cannot.... my hours are strict.
Thanks for the reply. My responses are in pink above. What do you think I should do from here?
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CityGarden View Post
Thanks for the reply. My responses are in pink above. What do you think I should do from here?
Just out of curiosity, how do you set up and enforce the one year contract? How long of a notice is required for a family that may be leaving at the end of the contract? How long have you implemented that and what made you think of it? Is it something you think has been beneficial or occasionally a headache? Sorry for all of the questions, but I’m truly interested about how this works. Thanks
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:20 PM
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I would just say that I am currently not enrolling, and give her a heads up as to when you expect your next opening to be. If she questions it, then I would just explain that business wise it does not make sense at this time, and that enrolling the child would bring in little to no income. If he is aggressive it could cost you income as you already have frustrated clients due to another feisty child.

Aim to add clients you feel will be a good fit to your business.
*Hours previously did not work for this family
*Child is currently being aggressive in group setting
*Will bring you little to no income & involves bringing in help
*You will need to depend on someone else showing up to stay in ratio
*If he aggressive in your care, you know that she will place the blame on you, and tell others that.

Do you know if they were kicked out, or abruptly leaving? Do you know if they honored their contract at previous place, and paid notice?
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:31 AM
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Personally, I wouldn't add a known biter to my mix. I'd deal with biting if it were an already enrolled kid but wouldn't set myself up for having to deal with that. And the fact that she's blaming the school for the continued biting concerns me - could be legit but having had a biter of my own I do think environment and the teachers play a role (and large class size was a huge factor for my daughter) but aren't the source of the issue.

I don't know ... I'd be tempted to do a one week trial to see how he does, but not if it meant having to hire someone to do it.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:08 AM
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If you have to hire someone else and will not have additional income, I would just say no, you are full now. If you have a waiting list, you could offer to put them on it if you would like. It does not sounds like a good business decision.
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:05 AM
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Don't do it.
I accepted a child like this once. Once. 10 years ago.
It sounds like they have been asked to leave the center if she's ready for him to start right away. It takes a lot for a center to ask a client to leave.
I might be reading it wrong, but I would take a pass.
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lblanke View Post
If you have to hire someone else and will not have additional income, I would just say no, you are full now. If you have a waiting list, you could offer to put them on it if you would like. It does not sounds like a good business decision.
I agree.

If it doesn't make a good business decision monetarily when there's already apprehension due to behavior, that would make me say "no thanks" and move on.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:07 PM
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Another vote for just say no now. I wouldn’t even go though with the tour as I am a big “I don’t want my time wasted on someone I will never enroll” girl. This is not something you usually do and it will mess up your Fall enrollments plus make next to no profit on adding another child due to needing and assistant. Those facts alone disregarding the fact that he is a hitter/biter would be enough for me to say no. While it’s true that in a different environment he may have no issues I would still say no just due to the other reasons mentioned.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2018, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
My heart would not be in it. Due to the fact he's a known biter and if I wasn't actively looking for another dck for the summer it wouldn't be that important to me to fill the spot.

Yes my heart is not into a known challenge.... especially for summer when I like a lighter load anyway.

I do agree that kid dynamics change from one environment to another but if you're already dealing with 1 little guy that's challenging, why add another possible one? Are you going to take him for a trial day to see how it goes? A day might tell you if he won't work out but one day might not show you his biting habit. Who knows.

I agree with your thought that environment could positively impact his behavior which is why I scheduled the tour initially however I quickly started to think of the possible ripple impact on my group.

Some thoughts might depend on why your current dcb bites, does he need a playmate to run around outside with? Is he the only boy, does he need extra attention, is he going through the terrible 2's, etc.? And same questions for this potential dcb. Does he only bite at his current preschool and how often has it happened?
Good luck with your decision!!

My current hand full dcb is not a biter he is all boy, full of energy and can be very rough and physical in his play. He has an older brother, too much tv and a full time working mom which I think all impact some of the challenges with his behavior. I adore him, work hard to meet his needs but have to watch him closely as the rest of my group are all only children or first born children, all have a SAHM or WAHM and all don't respond well to when he wants to play in a physical rough manner. Sadly the parents in my group have labeled dcb "rough" from some behaviors at his birthday party (read an overtired, over sugar filled day where dcm and dcd are likely busy hosting instead of actively watching dcb) I was not present but since that event they have acted a bit snowflake-ish when it comes to him so I am not sure they could handle an actual biter / hitter, etc.
My comments are above in pink.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2018, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvnmykidz View Post
Just out of curiosity, how do you set up and enforce the one year contract? How long of a notice is required for a family that may be leaving at the end of the contract? How long have you implemented that and what made you think of it? Is it something you think has been beneficial or occasionally a headache? Sorry for all of the questions, but I’m truly interested about how this works. Thanks
I have a part-day preschool program so they commit for the school year.... committing for the school year is important for me because unlike care for kids 2 and under in my area parents search and apply for preschools only at certain times of year making it difficult to fill spots in off times.

This is only my first year but the contract requires 30 days notice to leave. If they give less than 30 days notice they forfeit their deposit which would normally cover that last months tuition - and they pay a month tuition deposit which is enough incentive for them to give proper notice. So far the two leaving gave 90 days notice honoring the full term of their contract here for the school year. The hard part is that instead of one leaving here, one leaving there I will have two leaving a once..... which really impacts a budget if you do not plan accordingly.

I like this approach for my in-home preschool program and it's worked well so I will continue but do plan to update some contract items for next year.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by redmaple View Post
I would just say that I am currently not enrolling, and give her a heads up as to when you expect your next opening to be. If she questions it, then I would just explain that business wise it does not make sense at this time, and that enrolling the child would bring in little to no income. If he is aggressive it could cost you income as you already have frustrated clients due to another feisty child. (Concern #1)

Aim to add clients you feel will be a good fit to your business.
*Hours previously did not work for this family (Concern #2 - which is a big one)
*Child is currently being aggressive in group setting (Concern #3 which impacts Concern #1)
*Will bring you little to no income & involves bringing in help (It would only not bring income in May as I already have the number I feel comfortable with solo but yes it would cost me money in May before two of my dcks leave one for Kinder and one for a Center)
*You will need to depend on someone else showing up to stay in ratio (I would still be in ratio but I would be dependent on someone else to keep my program offerings the same as currently offered.)
*If he aggressive in your care, you know that she will place the blame on you, and tell others that. Great point I had not thought of that.

Do you know if they were kicked out, or abruptly leaving? Do you know if they honored their contract at previous place, and paid notice? I do not know but reading between the lines of what she said and her urgency of his starting ASAP leads me to believe he was asked to leave.
As of June I will have two spots and I made the mistake of saying that already plus I need to start marketing to fill those two spots so I do not want lie and tell her I'm full when I will soon be marketing...

The statement you said above in bold is what really concerned me when I got off the phone with her and processed all she said to me. My current clients already are acting like snowflakes with the one dcb (who is not violent, just rough and full of boy energy)
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdy2222 View Post
Personally, I wouldn't add a known biter to my mix. I'd deal with biting if it were an already enrolled kid but wouldn't set myself up for having to deal with that. And the fact that she's blaming the school for the continued biting concerns me - could be legit but having had a biter of my own I do think environment and the teachers play a role (and large class size was a huge factor for my daughter) but aren't the source of the issue.

I don't know ... I'd be tempted to do a one week trial to see how he does, but not if it meant having to hire someone to do it.
I am really strict on biting and am very concerned with adding it to the group....
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lblanke View Post
If you have to hire someone else and will not have additional income, I would just say no, you are full now. If you have a waiting list, you could offer to put them on it if you would like. It does not sounds like a good business decision.
I would not make additional income for May for June I would make money on him here. Sadly I will be marketing soon for those June/September openings so I don't want to lie and her see ads or something. (I will have the open spots in June but am not rushing to fill them over summer)

I do need to think of what to say to her and how to decline though.... good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesta View Post
Don't do it.
I accepted a child like this once. Once. 10 years ago.
It sounds like they have been asked to leave the center if she's ready for him to start right away. It takes a lot for a center to ask a client to leave.
I might be reading it wrong, but I would take a pass.
This was my read on her situation as well...
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Snowmom View Post
I agree.

If it doesn't make a good business decision monetarily when there's already apprehension due to behavior, that would make me say "no thanks" and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by storybookending View Post
Another vote for just say no now. I wouldn’t even go though with the tour as I am a big “I don’t want my time wasted on someone I will never enroll” girl. This is not something you usually do and it will mess up your Fall enrollments plus make next to no profit on adding another child due to needing and assistant. Those facts alone disregarding the fact that he is a hitter/biter would be enough for me to say no. While it’s true that in a different environment he may have no issues I would still say no just due to the other reasons mentioned.

Okay I feel the same way.... gosh I love this forum.

Any suggestions on how to say no thanks since I don't want to lie and say I don't have the space. I actually don't have space until June (unless I have a full time assistant) but soon I will be marketing two spots so I have to be mindful of that.

I think she would just leave potential dcb with the grandparents until June so I don't think that would be a deal breaker (she wanted grandparents to watch him until kinder but he was too much for them which is why she enrolled in preschool at all)
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:07 AM
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Dear dcm,
After giving your request for child care more thought, I feel my environment would not be the best for your child at this time. Here is the # of the childcare referral system if you need further help. Thank you for giving my daycare consideration and wishing you good luck with your search.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:01 AM
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I know you've already decided what you are going to do and in your case, I agree.

I have though had good luck with kids that have behavioral issues that come from centers. I fully believe it was the environment that created the issues.

NOT saying it is that way for every case but I wouldn't automatically rule out a child simply based on that.

I do think there are some other things in this particular situation though that would have warranted passing on.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdy2222 View Post
And the fact that she's blaming the school for the continued biting concerns me - could be legit but having had a biter of my own I do think environment and the teachers play a role (and large class size was a huge factor for my daughter) but aren't the source of the issue.
9 out of 10 times it IS the environment so I disagree and think mom is correct to assume it is the current care environment. Other than seeking a relief from teething and/or oral sensory, what other causes are there?
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CityGarden View Post
Okay I feel the same way.... gosh I love this forum.

Any suggestions on how to say no thanks since I don't want to lie and say I don't have the space. I actually don't have space until June (unless I have a full time assistant) but soon I will be marketing two spots so I have to be mindful of that.

I think she would just leave potential dcb with the grandparents until June so I don't think that would be a deal breaker (she wanted grandparents to watch him until kinder but he was too much for them which is why she enrolled in preschool at all)
Sine she is so desperate to start ASAP though, I wouldn't think grandparents are looking to watch ALL day and if you don't tell her about June, how would she know? Also, things can change in any business at the drop of a hat, so it's not necessarily suspicious if you advertise for an opening in a couple weeks.

I would say:

Thank you for your interest DCM. At this time, I wouldn't have the staff to enroll DCB (true). However, I do have some contacts for you and believe he may be a better fit in these environments: insert a couple contacts for leads.
I wish you the best of luck and thank you for your interest.
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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It would totally depend on how full my hands were at the time. If I had room though, I’d probably give him a trial. It sounds like he’s been in large group care. He may be totally different in a small group.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I know you've already decided what you are going to do and in your case, I agree.

I have though had good luck with kids that have behavioral issues that come from centers. I fully believe it was the environment that created the issues.

NOT saying it is that way for every case but I wouldn't automatically rule out a child simply based on that.

I do think there are some other things in this particular situation though that would have warranted passing on.







9 out of 10 times it IS the environment so I disagree and think mom is correct to assume it is the current care environment. Other than seeking a relief from teething and/or oral sensory, what other causes are there?
I agree. I have met few kids I could not handle, but many parents. If mom is getting kicked out, it could be because she did not adress the issue until it became an issue...as in, she now needs new care because he got kicked out.

But, I agree that a child's behavior can be 100% different depending on who is in charge. We have seen this with how a kid behaves around parents, but many kids misbehave around providers who do not command their space as well. More than a few times, my advice to new providers who don't want to be "mean", is to look at it like authority, not meanness. It is not mean to want the best for a kid, but many providers and parents confuse a kid's reaction (crying) to a situation. They think they were too harsh, but in reality, most of us are not harsh enough. I like young babies, because they grow up knowing what I tolerate and what is over the line. It usually takes nothing more than a look. Every kid craves direction and authority. Bad behavior is usually the result of a kid who has been left to their own devices. They look to me for direction and I give it. At a certain age, they take the control and use what I have taught them to find their path.
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