We have a 3 yr old who has some major behavior issues. Maybe there's more to it than just behavior...autism or something, but child's parents wouldn't let us have him observed as they think he's just all boy and that we don't like boys (that's the quick summed up version). So he missed the age cut off for free therapy and observation, and now we're left dealing with the behavior. Cannot afford to term, so suggesting that won't help.
Here's the story: sent home a couple "accident reports" letting his parents know about the worst of his behaviors that day (we only picked the worst two, but didn't tell them that). This was on a Friday. The next week he was supposed to come on Tuesday (he normally doesn't come til Wed, but this was a make-up day for a day we had to cancel on them the week before due to snow and icy roads and my not being able to come in to help the owner). They "forgot" to bring him their make up day, but still either wanted a reimbursement or an extra day the NEXT week (that's NOT in the policies. It states they pay whether or not they attend, but I think they turned it all around in their favor since it didn't specifically say this includes part timers. Well, they said he threw up mucous Tuesday night, so was going to keep him home Wednesday also. Then Thursday comes and they again say they're not sending him so he can recooperate (sp?). Hadn't been sick again, just really tired and acting worn out. So we didn't have him until Friday. He was so much better behaved that day, but didn't act like he felt well. Still laying around, acting tired. Lunch time comes and he sits down to eat and pukes right there at the table. Poor little guy. We call mom. She wants us to check his temperature (even though we knew he didn't have one). It was normal, so called her back to tell her. She got all snappy and said, "you all just don't want him there do you? So you just want me to leave work and come get him now?" The owner is very soft hearted and tries to please everyone and do whats best for the parents all the time, regardless of the inconvenince to her. The mom is a very intimidating lady, and owner just told her, "no, we just wanted to let you know. He's not been himself all day and he just threw up. Has he thrown up anymore than just a little mucous Tuesday night?" Mom said no. ANYWAY, Grandma ended up picking him up because she felt bad for him to be sick and spending it at daycare. When she came in to get him she said he had had diarrhea (sp?) really bad the day before when he was at her house. The parents knew this, and of course our policies say that a child cannot attend for 24 hrs after vomiting or diarrhea. Oh and by the way, although the owner so graciously agreed to let the parents bring him an extra day the next week to make up for the one they forgot about the week before, they came in Friday with a check for the next week for only 2 days, when he'll actually be there 3 days, but they just decided not to bring him the extra day for the one they forgot about, and not pay for it either, by cheating her one day's payment. The owner is letting them by with it this time because she didn't specifically say in the policies that the "pay whether or not they come" applies to Full time AND part time. She's been working on a new policy handbook that even more strict, but is it even possible to come up with policies that parents can't twist around in their favor?! Even when you think you've spelled it out as much as you possibly can, parents still find a way around it!
So what do you guys think about this? How would you (honestly) have handled the whole thing (without the option of terming just yet)? Or am I just being too picky about the whole thing? Are the parents in the right for not paying for the day they forgot to bring him? and for getting snappy when we called them about him vomiting, since he didn't have a fever? His Grandma said he wasn't himself at all the day before and had dirrahea, so I would assume they knew he was sick. I honestly think they brought him sick just so they didn't have to feel like they paid for 3 days that he didn't even attend. But what would you all think, going by the facts, rather than my opinions?
Kaddidle Care 03:03 PM 02-05-2011
Can't comment on the behavior/autism/etc. issues or the finances but our policy states fever or puke - they're outta there!
Those parents have now exposed you and every child there to his illness knowingly.
You don't keep a child in daycare that has thrown up. Your boss is only thinking dollars, not sense. When you get sick this week you can thank your boss and these parents.
momatheart 04:05 PM 02-05-2011
You are not being picky about this at all. I would be feeling the same way.
Originally Posted by Kaddidle Care:
Can't comment on the behavior/autism/etc. issues or the finances but our policy states fever or puke - they're outta there!
Those parents have now exposed you and every child there to his illness knowingly.
You don't keep a child in daycare that has thrown up. Your boss is only thinking dollars, not sense. When you get sick this week you can thank your boss and these parents.
I don't think I was clear in this. The child's parents would have still paid the same amount whether he went home early or not. The mom tried intimidating the owner (and does it all the time with snappy comments here and there), but the Grandma still came to get him within maybe 20 minutes of us calling the mom. The child had already been in care with us all morning, up to lunch time, so if he was going to spread anything, everyone had all already been exposed. And he hadn't had a fever all week (and still didn't). So what do you think of them not paying for the day they "forgot" to bring him? As I said, the policy says payment is expected even when the child does not attend, but the parent's way out of it (to clear their conscience anyway, I guess), was thinking that it wouldn't apply to part time families, since the policy didn't specifically say it includes part time AND full time.
Should we have phrased it better in the policy handbook, or are the parents just taking advantage and we should have still asked for payment? This mom in particular has been really crabby for the last several months, and seems mad at us no matter what we do, so we're almost afraid to say anything that might make her mad again. Including letting her know about dcb behavior (She is expecting, and from what I understand it's a high risk pregnancy, so Grandma has instructed us to lay off the everyday reports about dcb's behavior as they upset the mom).
momatheart 04:34 PM 02-05-2011
Can you talk to the dad? Give dad all the reports?
Since right now you are mostly mentioning payment I would keep all conversation on payment with this family and not behavior. After you get payment then behavior can be addressed.
Maybe you can explain to her nicely that even though he is pt time payment is still due in full whether he is here or not. Remind her that she is paying for the spot. Maybe just let it go this time but give her a reminder that in the future the days he is schedualed to be here need to be paid for up front.
Do you all require payment before service? That is what I would do in a policy change. All payment due on Monday's before service is provided.
If you do not come with payment on Tuesday with late fee of 5 dollars added to the total no service. However you will be required to pay for that week of care whether your child is there or not. One week without payment consider this immediate termination.
I have done daycare at home and I am in a center currently. We require payment on Monday's for that week of service.
Originally Posted by momatheart:
Can you talk to the dad? Give dad all the reports?
Since right now you are mostly mentioning payment I would keep all conversation on payment with this family and not behavior. After you get payment then behavior can be addressed.
Maybe you can explain to her nicely that even though he is pt time payment is still due in full whether he is here or not. Remind her that she is paying for the spot. Maybe just let it go this time but give her a reminder that in the future the days he is schedualed to be here need to be paid for up front.
Do you all require payment before service? That is what I would do in a policy change. All payment due on Monday's before service is provided.
If you do not come with payment on Tuesday with late fee of 5 dollars added to the total no service. However you will be required to pay for that week of care whether your child is there or not. One week without payment consider this immediate termination.
I have done daycare at home and I am in a center currently. We require payment on Monday's for that week of service.
That's just it. They've always been so good to pay on time and whether or not he attends (although it's VERY VERY rare for him to miss a day), but this time the day they didn't think they should pay for was a make up day for when WE canceled care for THEM one day the week before (because of bad roads I couldn't make it in to help the owner, so we just asked them if they'd like to bring him an extra day the next week instead of bringing him that day). So we gave them an extra day last week, but then THEY "forgot" to bring him. So they asked for a refund or an extra day the next week. Owner said okay they could bring him an extra day the next week without pay, although my personal opinion was that parents should still pay and not get another free day since it's their fault they forgot to bring him. Anyway, then yesterday they brought payment for next week (they pay for the upcoming week on Fridays), but they didn't include payment for all 3 days he'll be attending since they forgot to bring him that one day last week that they had already paid for. The same day is when mom got so snappy about us calling her when dcb vomited at the table, saying we just didn't want him there. She's threatend before, snapping at the owner asking stuff like, "should we just start looking for care elsewhere?" when we kept having to tell them about behavior. So we just quit for awhile, tired of the response we got everytime. Then Friday before last we finally sent home two "incident reports" about behavior, and that's when they "forgot" to bring him on the next day he was supposed to come. So I think they're just mad again at us for daring to give a bad report about dcb and this is their way of getting back. And they may possibly be looking for someone else to watch him (although, if someone else watches him even one day before they cancel care with us, they'll end up bringing him back to us! I mean, the boy has bitten me before and kicks or slaps at us, hits and pushes the other children, and a whole host of other problems besides...all without seeming to know what he's doing) there's no way anyone else will accept him with that going on.
ANYWAY, so yes, they pay the Friday before the upcoming week. they are usually really good about paying when it's due and the amount due. They are very picky about paying for days he won't be there, though. Like if he's scheduled on a day that we're closed for a holiday, they switch his days around that week, so that he still comes his 3 days, but they don't have to pay for the holiday.
So with their history of good payment and all, I wonder if maybe I'm being too picky this time and just thinking the worst of them.
Originally Posted by registered but signed out:
That's just it. They've always been so good to pay on time and whether or not he attends (although it's VERY VERY rare for him to miss a day), but this time the day they didn't think they should pay for was a make up day for when WE canceled care for THEM one day the week before (because of bad roads I couldn't make it in to help the owner, so we just asked them if they'd like to bring him an extra day the next week instead of bringing him that day). So we gave them an extra day last week, but then THEY "forgot" to bring him. So they asked for a refund or an extra day the next week. Owner said okay they could bring him an extra day the next week without pay, although my personal opinion was that parents should still pay and not get another free day since it's their fault they forgot to bring him. Anyway, then yesterday they brought payment for next week (they pay for the upcoming week on Fridays), but they didn't include payment for all 3 days he'll be attending since they forgot to bring him that one day last week that they had already paid for. The same day is when mom got so snappy about us calling her when dcb vomited at the table, saying we just didn't want him there. She's threatend before, snapping at the owner asking stuff like, "should we just start looking for care elsewhere?" when we kept having to tell them about behavior. So we just quit for awhile, tired of the response we got everytime. Then Friday before last we finally sent home two "incident reports" about behavior, and that's when they "forgot" to bring him on the next day he was supposed to come. So I think they're just mad again at us for daring to give a bad report about dcb and this is their way of getting back. And they may possibly be looking for someone else to watch him (although, if someone else watches him even one day before they cancel care with us, they'll end up bringing him back to us! I mean, the boy has bitten me before and kicks or slaps at us, hits and pushes the other children, and a whole host of other problems besides...all without seeming to know what he's doing) there's no way anyone else will accept him with that going on.
ANYWAY, so yes, they pay the Friday before the upcoming week. they are usually really good about paying when it's due and the amount due. They are very picky about paying for days he won't be there, though. Like if he's scheduled on a day that we're closed for a holiday, they switch his days around that week, so that he still comes his 3 days, but they don't have to pay for the holiday.
So with their history of good payment and all, I wonder if maybe I'm being too picky this time and just thinking the worst of them.
I get the impression that these parents are very controlling. We have a family (or two lol) like that. They will continue like this as long as they are allowed to. It paid off for the mom to get snippy (she was told she didn't have to pick him up and probably made you guys feel like you had done something wrong. Plus you quit telling her about her child's behavior because of the reaction you got, so it's also worked in the past, it sounds like). No, I don't think you're being too picky, but why was this allowed? Was anything said to them about the day they didn't pay for? You said you have it in the policy that parents pay whether or not the child attends. That does not matter if it specifically said "part time also" or not. Unless your policy SAID "Full timers pay whether or not they attend, but not part timers", then your policy was clear enough and should have been followed. I have to agree with the other members, the parents will not follow your policies if you do not follow them yourselves in enforcing it. I'm understanding that you're an assistant? I am too, so I do not mean that toward you personally since you're probably not in a position to enforce them, but could you talk to the owner about it? Or is she okay with it all? .
Also, WHY is that child allowed to continue in your program when he's agressive toward you or the owner, and hits/kicks/pushes the other children? I understand not wanting to terminate because of the loss of income (we're in the same situation with a child who sounds a LOT like yours. I think they must be clones lol), but here's a question for our bosses: why are these children, like the ones in our daycares, allowed to continue doing this? I only feel extremely sorry for the other children and what they're going through every time they're at daycare. Personally, no amount of money would be worth that to me.
Sorry for the long answer. Here's a quick sum up: No, you're not being too picky, but it sounds like your daycare needs to get busy enforcing the policies, or you're going to run into this more and more. Especially with this family. Once they get by with it once, they will continue and then get
really mad when the policies are enforced with them later on. the owner? is the same as saying the policies are no longer in effect and do not apply to them anymore.