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BabyMonkeys 06:16 AM 09-11-2015
Baby seat strap cited in death at daycare

18m baby was strapped into his carseat for his nap. He didn't wake up. This poor baby suffocated to death. It was ruled an accident, but I hope there are consequences for this provider.

Who puts a toddler in their carseat for a nap?!! I can understand that a parent that doesn't know any better might let their infant sleep in their seat, but a toddler?

So sad
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LysesKids 06:30 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by angelw2babies:
Baby seat strap cited in death at daycare

18m baby was strapped into his carseat for his nap. He didn't wake up. This poor baby suffocated to death. It was ruled an accident, but I hope there are consequences for this provider.

Who puts a toddler in their carseat for a nap?!! I can understand that a parent that doesn't know any better might let their infant sleep in their seat, but a toddler?

So sad
Unregistered childcare home fits in this case unless some of the 9 kids in her home were hers; Iowa only allows 5 in care for legally license exempt. Why in the heck was an 18 month sleeping in the carseat anyway?
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Sugar Magnolia 06:49 AM 09-11-2015
Just especially if it turns out that unregistered is ILLEGALLY unregistered. Infuriating! I'd like to know if the daycare did not have enough cots or mats? Or was he strapped into a car seat because he wasn't cooperating with nap time? Either way, totally inexcusable and horribly neglectful at the minimum. I cannot fathom why anyone would put him in a carseat??? Why?? Senseless. I have been waiting in vain for government entities to CRACK DOWN on ILLEGALLY OPERATING daycares, without being prompted by a tragic and preventable death.
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nanglgrl 07:29 AM 09-11-2015
This isn't the entire story either. The car seat was placed in a closet. The child was 18 months old and placed in an infant car seat that belonged to the provider. Past clients/friends of hers have said the parents gave her permission (shudder) to put the child to sleep in a car seat because he would climb out of the pack and play they also said the closet can fit a twin sized bed. She was unregistered and it was reported she had 9 children but the news never said if any of those counted were her own children (she has teenagers).
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BabyMonkeys 07:31 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
This isn't the entire story either. The car seat was placed in a closet. The child was 18 months old and placed in an infant car seat that belonged to the provider. Past clients/friends of hers have said the parents gave her permission (shudder) to put the child to sleep in a car seat because he would climb out of the pack and play they also said the closet can fit a twin sized bed. She was unregistered and it was reported she had 9 children but the news never said if any of those counted were her own children (she has teenagers).



This deserves criminal charges...just so wrong!!!
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Scribbles 07:39 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by angelw2babies:


This deserves criminal charges...just so wrong!!!
Sounds to me like a provider that really just didn't know any better. She allowed the parents to give her permission to do the wrong thing.
I read things that make me cringe on child care boards every day.
No one ever thinks it could happen to them. Until it does.
I don't want to assume this provider was doing wrong intentionally but her behavior is definitely questionable for sure. Everyone complains about regulations but had this provider been registered she may have been forced to take safe sleep trainings that would have educated her in regards to her "unsafe habits". I also think the parents should be held accountable in some way too if what they say is true about them giving her permission to strap him into a car seat. Parents need to do their homework in regards to the provider and environment they place their child in. If they knew she was operating illegally (over ratios) then they bear part of the burden of responsibility as well. My guess is she was cheaper than other care providers and probably willing to accommodate whatever requests they had for scheduling, sleeping, eating, taking sick kids etc.
I also want to mention that in my state I can have a 14 ft X 14 ft room but if it does not have a closet built in, it's considered a closet or pantry itself so if the provider could fit a twin sized bed in the room, I wouldn't necessarily call it a closet.
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Gemma 07:46 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by angelw2babies:


This deserves criminal charges...just so wrong!!!
I understand, this makes me angry too! ...but, we know rules and have developed "common sense" that the average person might not have...maybe in her uneducated mind, that was the best way to keep that child safe

very sad!
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Sugar Magnolia 09:35 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
This isn't the entire story either. The car seat was placed in a closet. The child was 18 months old and placed in an infant car seat that belonged to the provider. Past clients/friends of hers have said the parents gave her permission (shudder) to put the child to sleep in a car seat because he would climb out of the pack and play they also said the closet can fit a twin sized bed. She was unregistered and it was reported she had 9 children but the news never said if any of those counted were her own children (she has teenagers).
Closet? A closet? Omg no, pkease tell me it's not true. Why why why?? What an awful way to die, I'm guessing screaming and straining to get out, shut in a dark closet. I think I may vomit.
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rosieteddy 09:50 AM 09-11-2015
My 11 yr old grandson would know better.She restrained him in the carseat to get him to stay there.She put him in the closet to quiet his screaming.Sorry no sympathy for her or parents if they really gave permission.They new how many kids were there and probally chose her because she was cheap. I was liscenced for many years,but even if I wasn't I know not to do that .The poor baby.
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laundrymom 10:24 AM 09-11-2015
So the toddler was secured in an infant car seat and placed in a closet?
I couldn't bring myself to click on the link.
So he was scared. Alone. Scared. Crying, screaming, alone. Scared. For God only knows how long. Until he was quiet. At which point, he died. And she relaxed at the lack of noise. UNtil nap was over.
When she found him.
I'm sorry.
But I hope she never forgets the scene. I hope it haunts her. I know that's not Christian of me. I know it. But... He was alone. And scared.
I'm numb. In what reality would it be okay to secure a child into a car seat and hide them in a closet for nap?
I'm lost. Just lost.
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Rockgirl 10:34 AM 09-11-2015
I don't buy the "didn't know better" idea. I've had parents directly tell me to spank their children. Did I do it? #%$& NO! She knew it was wrong to put a child in a closet.
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Unregistered 10:37 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
So the toddler was secured in an infant car seat and placed in a closet?
I couldn't bring myself to click on the link.
So he was scared. Alone. Scared. Crying, screaming, alone. Scared. For God only knows how long. Until he was quiet. At which point, he died. And she relaxed at the lack of noise. UNtil nap was over.
When she found him.
I'm sorry.
But I hope she never forgets the scene. I hope it haunts her. I know that's not Christian of me. I know it. But... He was alone. And scared.
I'm numb. In what reality would it be okay to secure a child into a car seat and hide them in a closet for nap?
I'm lost. Just lost.
He died of positional asphyxiation while he was asleep.
Doesn't make the situation any better but from everything I read, he didn't die in the middle of a crying fit. I could definitely be wrong but all the stories posted on various sites say nothing of him dying while struggling or crying.
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laundrymom 10:44 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
He died of positional asphyxiation while he was asleep.
Doesn't make the situation any better but from everything I read, he didn't die in the middle of a crying fit. I could definitely be wrong but all the stories posted on various sites say nothing of him dying while struggling or crying.
Ok. So he was put in the closet because he cried. Fell asleep. And died because he couldn't breathe. Unacceptable.
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Unregistered 10:45 AM 09-11-2015
I've looked at other articles, not much on this. I couldn't find where the parents allowed or approved of sleeping in the car seat. Makes no sense why they wouldn't put him in a crib if he came sleeping. One article did say the car seat was the providers, adding more mystery.

It did say a viral infection of the heart was thought to be a contributing factor. I only found 1 article that mentioned the closet so knowing how the media sensationalizes these stories I'll wait until more facts come out.
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Unregistered 11:00 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
Ok. So he was put in the closet because he cried. Fell asleep. And died because he couldn't breathe. Unacceptable.
I agree. I am not condoning anything the provider did. Just wanted to make mention of it as the it only hurts everyone when details of a tragedy are spread around that aren't accurate. That only serves to hurt ALL unlicensed or unregistered homes and I know many unlicensed/unregistered providers that are awesome and DO go above and beyond to provide quality and safe care.
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laundrymom 11:12 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I agree. I am not condoning anything the provider did. Just wanted to make mention of it as the it only hurts everyone when details of a tragedy are spread around that aren't accurate. That only serves to hurt ALL unlicensed or unregistered homes and I know many unlicensed/unregistered providers that are awesome and DO go above and beyond to provide quality and safe care.
Agreed. I just can't wrap my head around it. I just can't.
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Unregistered 11:17 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by laundrymom:
Agreed. I just can't wrap my head around it. I just can't.

I know.
The whole situation makes me sick
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nanglgrl 11:24 AM 09-11-2015
I know the facts because I live in this area and was aware of the facts before the media disclosed them. Providers, parents and even first responders talk. The child was in an infant car seat that was too small so she wasn't able to secure the leg latches. The child was only restrained by the chest latch. The child asphyxiated most likely because he struggled to get out of the seat and his breathing was interrupted by the chest latch.
The car seat belonged to the provider for sure and the parents gave the provider permission to put the child in a car seat to sleep because he always crawled out of the pack and play (I'm not 100% sure on if the parents actually gave permission). The child was placed in a closet (I know that for a fact) and some have said the closet could fit a twin sized bed (I don't know if that's true).
There was an infection..myocarditis..that can cause mild problems that resolve on their own or sudden death. The exact results of the autopsy should show if it was a contributing factor or just a condition that didn't contribute to his death.
The provider was unregistered but had been in business for many years. In our state you can be unregistered and have 5 children in care but there are still rules you're supposed to follow as far as safety, CPR, first aid etc. this provider was SO under the radar that even after years of providing care DHS had no idea she was running an unlicensed home so I doubt she met the regulations of being an unregistered provider.
Her family is well liked and known around town.
I try to give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the closet was large and like a small room itself, maybe it was set up as a quiet room for children who had trouble sleeping, maybe it was inviting and friendly. I don't know. I do know the house itself if small and older and has a large family living in it so it's unlikely, still I try to think maybe it's not as bad as it seems.
As far as the sleeping in an infant car seat I think training on safe sleep could have helped but it's not something required by unregistered providers, new providers or veteran providers. Around here you just try to get in whatever classes you can to meet your yearly 12 hours and a lot of classes get cancelled since sign up is low so at the end of the year you just sign up for whatever has openings.
It does appear that this child was overwhelming her so she restrained him and put him in an area of the house where she couldn't hear him to get peace. As much as that's wrong she did do one thing right, a child made her feel overwhelmed so she put him somewhere instead of physically abusing him. I'm certain she never expected this outcome. I'm not defending her actions of restraining him using a car seat and placing him in a closet. She made mistakes, big ones but she could have made an even bigger one had she let herself become overwhelmed. She made mistakes that others would consider common sense.
To me, a lot of these problems arise from anyone and everyone being able to do daycare. I have a child in care that fell down the stairs at his previous providers house 5 times in two days. I have no idea why she didn't put safety precautions in place before hand or at the least after the first incident but she didn't. Sometimes I think there should be a test to become a provider. Just loving children isn't enough.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:34 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I know the facts because I live in this area and was aware of the facts before the media disclosed them. Providers, parents and even first responders talk. The child was in an infant car seat that was too small so she wasn't able to secure the leg latches. The child was only restrained by the chest latch. The child asphyxiated most likely because he struggled to get out of the seat and his breathing was interrupted by the chest latch.
The car seat belonged to the provider for sure and the parents gave the provider permission to put the child in a car seat to sleep because he always crawled out of the pack and play (I'm not 100% sure on if the parents actually gave permission). The child was placed in a closet (I know that for a fact) and some have said the closet could fit a twin sized bed (I don't know if that's true).
I know the timeline was a bit sketchy as it seemed it was closer to 4pm when the child was found. If that's correct the child was most likely "ignored" for quite a while and well after most nap times end.
There was an infection..myocarditis..that can cause mild problems that resolve on their own or sudden death. The exact results of the autopsy should show if it was a contributing factor or just a condition that didn't contribute to his death.
The provider was unregistered but had been in business for many years. In our state you can be unregistered and have 5 children in care but there are still rules you're supposed to follow as far as safety, CPR, first aid etc. this provider was SO under the radar that even after years of providing care DHS had no idea she was running an unlicensed home so I doubt she met the regulations of being an unregistered provider.
Her family is well liked and known around town.
I try to give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the closet was large and like a small room itself, maybe it was set up as a quiet room for children who had trouble sleeping, maybe it was inviting and friendly. I don't know. I do know the house itself if small and older and has a large family living in it so it's unlikely, still I try to think maybe it's not as bad as it seems.
As far as the sleeping in an infant car seat I think training on safe sleep could have helped but it's not something required by unregistered providers, new providers or veteran providers. Around here you just try to get in whatever classes you can to meet your yearly 12 hours and a lot of classes get cancelled since sign up is low so at the end of the year you just sign up for whatever has openings.
It does appear that this child was overwhelming her so she restrained him and put him in an area of the house where she couldn't hear him to get peace. As much as that's wrong she did do one thing right, a child made her feel overwhelmed so she put him somewhere instead of physically abusing him. I'm certain she never expected this outcome. I'm not defending her actions of restraining him using a car seat and placing him in a closet. She made mistakes, big ones but she could have made an even bigger one had she let herself become overwhelmed. She made mistakes that others would consider common sense.
To me, a lot of these problems arise from anyone and everyone being able to do daycare. I have a child in care that fell down the stairs at his previous providers house 5 times in two days. I have no idea why she didn't put safety precautions in place before hand or at the least after the first incident but she didn't. Sometimes I think there should be a test to become a provider. Just loving children isn't enough.


You know what I find interesting? The amount of risk many providers will allow, even those who "know better". Childcare is such a liability and with ANY daycare (licensed or not) the day to day risk factor is so high that I amazed anyone wants to do it at this point. I have been seriously considering giving it up (after 17 years), because even if I do everything right, I still hold so much liability and my life could be turned upside down in a matter of seconds. Not too mention the lives of my family members. My home town is dealing with a case where the provider took kids to the pool and a girl drowned. She is now facing negligent homicide. I am scared to my job for fear of making a terrible mistake one day and having the world crash in
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hope 11:43 AM 09-11-2015
When my DS was an infant he was allergic to soy and had issues with milk so we were in the process of finding a formula that helped him. He was not happy at that time, always crying. I had an emergency and asked my sister to watch him overnight. I came 1st thing in the morning and she said he slept great because she kept him in his car seat all night. She had 3 children of her own. I expected her to know better. Did I blame her? No. I was to blame. DS was my child and I should have made sure my sister knew how to properly and safely have him sleep. I assumed she knew and he could have died.
In the case of this provider.....it is her job to keep the children she cares for safe. She should have known. The parents should have asked for proper sleeping conditions. It is the parents responsibility to notice if there are 9 children in a home daycare. This child was given up on and it is so sad.
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nanglgrl 11:47 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
[/b]

You know what I find interesting? The amount of risk many providers will allow, even those who "know better". Childcare is such a liability and with ANY daycare (licensed or not) the day to day risk factor is so high that I amazed anyone wants to do it at this point. I have been seriously considering giving it up (after 17 years), because even if I do everything right, I still hold so much liability and my life could be turned upside down in a matter of seconds. Not too mention the lives of my family members. My home town is dealing with a case where the provider took kids to the pool and a girl drowned. She is now facing negligent homicide. I am scared to my job for fear of making a terrible mistake one day and having the world crash in
I undertake that! I feel like I'm constantly looking for the dangers. "No running", "no climbing", "pick the toys up before someone trips", "stay away from the baby" and on and on and on because it's natural for children to want to run, climb, make a mess and want to be close to babies.
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Annalee 11:50 AM 09-11-2015
In child care, even if we do everything right, something could happen that could be life-altering...BUT as long as we follow licensing and all state expectations I think we are protected. Meeko's situation proves this!!!!! I have recently considered my options getting out of daycare due to the ever-crazy parenting styles that can lead to a he said/she said lawsuit. Some of the issues I have faced since enrolling my last 4 children/3 clients has nearly caused me to throw in the towel.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:57 AM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I undertake that! I feel like I'm constantly looking for the dangers. "No running", "no climbing", "pick the toys up before someone trips", "stay away from the baby" and on and on and on because it's natural for children to want to run, climb, make a mess and want to be close to babies.
I am on repeat everyday. "Stop, don't touch, come here, get down, no no, ect". I feel like in some cases, I have to stop kids from being kids because if they get hurt in the process, I am still on the line for it. I feel like I have been lucky in my daycare years. Some very close calls and not from negligence, just kids being kids and me putting my guard down. It is scary and getting scarier everyday. I went to my sister's house this weekend and her husband is a farmer and rancher and great with kids, but not a "kid guy", if that makes sense. He is the last person I expected to say to me, "yea, once you daughter can go to school, maybe you should stop doing daycare because there is so much risk anymore and I would hate to see you end up in hot water over an accident or something."
This is a guy who never talks unless it is about farming/ranching, yet even he can see the liability issues with doing child care. I am not saying the woman in this article is right, but I also hate condemning other providers without knowing all the info. An example, I was reading the archives on here about a slide burning a little girl who slid down it on a hot day. I was shocked that many of the providers didn't know that plastic could get so hot and burn a kid, but I thought that was common sense(lived in texas 10 years, playgrounds are too hot in summer). Yet some of the same posters know that it is not okay to let a baby sleep in a carrier/swing/ect., which I never knew until about 2 years ago, and I have been doing childcare forever! I put my self at so much risk because I didn't know, so this job kind of freaks me out now, since I seem to learn something new everyday and then thank my lucky stars that nothing bad happened prior to that knowledge. Sorry for the vent, just stories like this make me so heartsick.
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nanglgrl 12:03 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Annalee:
In child care, even if we do everything right, something could happen that could be life-altering...BUT as long as we follow licensing and all state expectations I think we are protected. Meeko's situation proves this!!!!! I have recently considered my options getting out of daycare due to the ever-crazy parenting styles that can lead to a he said/she said lawsuit. Some of the issues I have faced since enrolling my last 4 children/3 clients has nearly caused me to throw in the towel.
I just had an incident where a child was dropped of and within a minute of shutting the door I noticed she was acting like something was wrong with her leg. I started making a video of it less than 5 minutes after she arrived because I didn't want to call the parents only to have them arrive and have the child acting fine (at first I thought maybe she just wanted me to carry her or was grumpy). I called the parents a minute after the video was done. The parent showed up about 15 minutes later even though they'd just left and at first said the child was fine at drop off until I mentioned that I had a video that was time stamped as starting almost immediately after drop off. Then I was told the child was acting like something was wrong with her leg since they picked up from my home the day previously.
I knew it wasn't true, for one thing she hadn't gotten hurt here, had walked to the door herself at pick up and no good parent would ever let their child be in the pain this child seemed to be in all night without taking her to the doctor and bring her to daycare the next day without saying a word. I felt I had myself covered by was really seeing my life flash before my eyes. They took her to the doctor and it ended up being a virus that causes joint pain in toddlers. Now I'm installing 4 cameras with recording straight to DVR to protect myself thanks to the advice of a veteran provider. That feeling of wondering if these people had just ruined my life because they didn't want to take responsibility for something that happened at home was eye opening.
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:03 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Annalee:
In child care, even if we do everything right, something could happen that could be life-altering...BUT as long as we follow licensing and all state expectations I think we are protected. Meeko's situation proves this!!!!! I have recently considered my options getting out of daycare due to the ever-crazy parenting styles that can lead to a he said/she said lawsuit. Some of the issues I have faced since enrolling my last 4 children/3 clients has nearly caused me to throw in the towel.
And I am thankful for any protection, but I guess the stress of something bad happening has really been getting to me. Even in Meeko's situation. You can do everything right, yet bad things happen and at a few dollars per hour, do I really want the pain and baggage that comes along with a child dying in my care. I guess I just have been feeling very scared to do my job lately and I either need to buck up and deal wit or move on, but it seems to be a daily conversation in my head
My heart goes out to the family of this little baby and to anyone involved.
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Sugar Magnolia 12:15 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I agree. I am not condoning anything the provider did. Just wanted to make mention of it as the it only hurts everyone when details of a tragedy are spread around that aren't accurate. That only serves to hurt ALL unlicensed or unregistered homes and I know many unlicensed/unregistered providers that are awesome and DO go above and beyond to provide quality and safe care.
No, it doesn't hurt ALL unregistered or unlicensed. Just the illegal ones. The operative word being illegal. I am very interested to know if this was an illegal operation. It matters. I do agree that the facts are limited here. I did not read closet anywhere either. If it's true, about the closet.....negligent homicide. Seriously. I need more facts. It bothers me to see the phrase "ruled accidental"' because it was no accident that a child care provider placed him in a car seat with the intent of the child napping. Being put in a closet is certainly not accidental.

Eta I didn't see the post about first hand knowledge of the closet. My mistake nangjrl sorry!
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Unregistered 12:21 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
No, it doesn't hurt ALL unregistered or unlicensed. Just the illegal ones. The operative word being illegal. I am very interested to know if this was an illegal operation. It matters. I do agree that the facts are limited here. I did not read closet anywhere either. If it's true, about the closet.....negligent homicide. Seriously. I need more facts. It bothers me to see the phrase "ruled accidental"' because it was no accident that a child care provider placed him in a car seat with the intent of the child napping. Being put in a closet is certainly not accidental.
of course it gives all unregistered and unlicensed caregivers a bad rap. not just the illegal ones. generalized sweeping statements or untrue or half true statements hurt everyone. even those that are providing quality care as unlicensed or unregistered.
just like not all centers are bad
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nanglgrl 12:26 PM 09-11-2015
http://m.wcfcourier.com/news/local/c...ile_touch=true

Here's the link to the story that includes the information that the child was in a closet. A lot of people in the area have known this information for a while. I'm surprised the media waited to release it for so long.
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Thriftylady 12:36 PM 09-11-2015
As a legally unlicensed provider I just want to add that this could have happened even with a registered provider. Nobody can watch every provider every second, and I have heard of some licensed providers that broke every rule in the book. When parents come and talk to me I tell them that even if they don't choose me, to use their eyes, ears and every other thing they have to use and not just at the interview.

The real issue to me is that this happened at all. I don't understand why the provider or the parents thought this was okay to begin with. To me there must be some issue with either the child or parenting that they felt the need to put this child in a closet in this car seat that neither party was working on.
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BabyMonkeys 12:54 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
He died of positional asphyxiation while he was asleep.
Doesn't make the situation any better but from everything I read, he didn't die in the middle of a crying fit. I could definitely be wrong but all the stories posted on various sites say nothing of him dying while struggling or crying.
Positional asphyxia just means that someone is unable to breathe due to their position. Has nothing to do with whether they are sleeping or not. A dangerous criminal that is violently resisting arrest may die of positional asphyxia if the officers restrain him face down. I assure you he wasn't asleep. I'm sure that criminal was struggling and screaming.

It is a beautiful thought that the baby just went to sleep...and I pray to God that is what happened...but it's unlikely. The reality is that most likely that baby screamed and struggled to get out, while left alone in a dark closet to die. NOT OK!
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Unregistered 01:13 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by nanglgrl:
I just had an incident where a child was dropped of and within a minute of shutting the door I noticed she was acting like something was wrong with her leg. I started making a video of it less than 5 minutes after she arrived because I didn't want to call the parents only to have them arrive and have the child acting fine (at first I thought maybe she just wanted me to carry her or was grumpy). I called the parents a minute after the video was done. The parent showed up about 15 minutes later even though they'd just left and at first said the child was fine at drop off until I mentioned that I had a video that was time stamped as starting almost immediately after drop off. Then I was told the child was acting like something was wrong with her leg since they picked up from my home the day previously.
I knew it wasn't true, for one thing she hadn't gotten hurt here, had walked to the door herself at pick up and no good parent would ever let their child be in the pain this child seemed to be in all night without taking her to the doctor and bring her to daycare the next day without saying a word. I felt I had myself covered by was really seeing my life flash before my eyes. They took her to the doctor and it ended up being a virus that causes joint pain in toddlers. Now I'm installing 4 cameras with recording straight to DVR to protect myself thanks to the advice of a veteran provider. That feeling of wondering if these people had just ruined my life because they didn't want to take responsibility for something that happened at home was eye opening.

Smart thing to do, but no parent is ever going to wreck your life. Certainly not mine. Aside from doing what you're suppose to the other best protection is lot's of good insurance. Sad but with all the money grubbers, people looking to cash in, documenting and great insurance is your best bet. Oh and I will bet in this case, they didn't want to pay the co-pay. I've had these people before, they avoid the doctor like the plague because of co-pays.
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nanglgrl 03:02 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Smart thing to do, but no parent is ever going to wreck your life. Certainly not mine. Aside from doing what you're suppose to the other best protection is lot's of good insurance. Sad but with all the money grubbers, people looking to cash in, documenting and great insurance is your best bet. Oh and I will bet in this case, they didn't want to pay the co-pay. I've had these people before, they avoid the doctor like the plague because of co-pays.
Tell that to the providers in Kern County, California in the 1980s or the owners of McMartin Preschool in the 1980's. The events in the 1980s and 1990s ruined a lot of innocent people's lives.
I have liability insurance for the daycare.
I think they could most definitely wreck my life. If the child had actually been found to have an injury it could have been a he said/she said. That could definitely ruin my life. People are way more suspicious of a daycare provider than they are the child's parents when it comes to these situations. I know a provider who had a daycare child injured by being shaken. The baby was in care that day and fussier than normal but it wasn't until that night after being picked up that the baby had seizures. The baby is now blind and has brain damage. The provider was drug through the mud. After months had passed it was discovered the child had been shaken before daycare that day but the provider doesnt do daycare any longer., I don't blame her. She was lucky that her dad is an attorney.
Even if a provider is cleared of all wrong doing there are still a lot of people who are suspicious and one of my biggest fears is for people to think I hurt a child followed by being charged with a crime. It would be a level of hell for me to put my family through all that suspicion, to deal with other parents at my children's schools who thought I was a child abuser.
Luckily I reacted quickly and took the video and the parents were late so they text me on their way (and also lucky the child wasn't actually injured). These things created a timeline where the child wouldn't have really had time to be injured in care. It was really luck because if they hadn't been running late I wouldn't have that text and because they were running late everyone else had already arrived so I wasn't dealing with the hustle and bustle I normally have at arrival and I had enough time to think of documenting what I was seeing.
I know what you're talking about with the parents and co pays but these parents don't have that problem.
We're all only an accident, a misinterpretation, a crazy parent, an overzealous investigation or a misled prosecutor away from what most of us would consider hell.
We can document of course but even great documentation is no guarantee.
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Sugar Magnolia 03:35 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Smart thing to do, but no parent is ever going to wreck your life. Certainly not mine. Aside from doing what you're suppose to the other best protection is lot's of good insurance. Sad but with all the money grubbers, people looking to cash in, documenting and great insurance is your best bet. Oh and I will bet in this case, they didn't want to pay the co-pay. I've had these people before, they avoid the doctor like the plague because of co-pays.
"Certainly not mine". That's a pretty bold statement. I'm glad you have that confidence.
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Sugar Magnolia 04:12 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
of course it gives all unregistered and unlicensed caregivers a bad rap. not just the illegal ones. generalized sweeping statements or untrue or half true statements hurt everyone. even those that are providing quality care as unlicensed or unregistered.
just like not all centers are bad
Calling all LEGALLY unlicensed or LEGALLY unregistered members to chime in. Do you feel this incident gives you a bad name? I do not feel that way. I fully support my legally unlicensed brother and sisters who provide safe, quality care, day in and day out. Looking for a solid reason from unregistered on exactly HOW this incident gives those who DO follow the laws a bad rap.

I DO feel this incident gives ILLEGAL providers a serious black eye, as it should, because illegal is illegal is illegal. Those who care for childrem should follow the laws of their state. Period. If that position is the " sweeping generalizations " I am being accused of making, so be it. But if you cool with providers operating illegally......good for you a baby is dead.

"Like all centers are not bad".....ok....thanks for the tip on who this unregistered comment is from. Just another anonymous snipe, beautifully executed. Yeah, what an awful member I am, getting upset over illegal providers who put babies in car seats in closets. And toddlers walking out of A LICENSED CENTER play yard with four staff present.

I no longer feel welcomed here. Peace OUT. YOU WIN, unregistered, enjoy your forum

Blessings to all my fellow providers providing safe and loving care. Legally, of course.
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Thriftylady 04:18 PM 09-11-2015
I am not sure I think it gives all unlicensed providers a bad name. I do know some parents think if you are licensed it is safer, but that just isn't true, and I try to educate people on that. I tell people a good provider is a good provider regardless, and so is a bad one. I guess I think it gives some parents a false sense of security.
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Unregistered 04:35 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
"Certainly not mine". That's a pretty bold statement. I'm glad you have that confidence.

Really? I wasn't talking about something really horrific like that McMartin case, or other abuses of media, law, etc. or something way out of the norm.

As for illegal, not, what have you..it's a non issue imo because these things happen everywhere. It's a horrible accident as was ruled, all that can be done is continued education of parents and providers.
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Heidi 04:48 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Calling all LEGALLY unlicensed or LEGALLY unregistered members to chime in. Do you feel this incident gives you a bad name? I do not feel that way. I fully support my legally unlicensed brother and sisters who provide safe, quality care, day in and day out. Looking for a solid reason from unregistered on exactly HOW this incident gives those who DO follow the laws a bad rap.

I DO feel this incident gives ILLEGAL providers a serious black eye, as it should, because illegal is illegal is illegal. Those who care for childrem should follow the laws of their state. Period. If that position is the " sweeping generalizations " I am being accused of making, so be it. But if you cool with providers operating illegally......good for you a baby is dead.

"Like all centers are not bad".....ok....thanks for the tip on who this unregistered comment is from. Just another anonymous snipe, beautifully executed. Yeah, what an awful member I am, getting upset over illegal providers who put babies in car seats in closets. And toddlers walking out of A LICENSED CENTER play yard with four staff present.

I no longer feel welcomed here. Peace OUT. YOU WIN, unregistered, enjoy your forum

Blessings to all my fellow providers providing safe and loving care. Legally, of course.
You'd better not be leaving the rest of us behind because of some unregistered troll, Sugar!

Oh please don't go...we'll miss you so!

Seriously...don't go!
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nanglgrl 07:18 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Really? I wasn't talking about something really horrific like that McMartin case, or other abuses of media, law, etc. or something way out of the norm.

As for illegal, not, what have you..it's a non issue imo because these things happen everywhere. It's a horrible accident as was ruled, all that can be done is continued education of parents and providers.
There hasn't been a ruling just a cause of death the case was forwarded to the county attorney.

Any allegation against me be it satanic rituals and sexual abuse or being negligent to the degree it injured or led to the death of a child has the potential to ruin my life.

Sugar, please don't leave!
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nanglgrl 07:33 PM 09-11-2015
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
No, it doesn't hurt ALL unregistered or unlicensed. Just the illegal ones. The operative word being illegal. I am very interested to know if this was an illegal operation. It matters. I do agree that the facts are limited here. I did not read closet anywhere either. If it's true, about the closet.....negligent homicide. Seriously. I need more facts. It bothers me to see the phrase "ruled accidental"' because it was no accident that a child care provider placed him in a car seat with the intent of the child napping. Being put in a closet is certainly not accidental.

Eta I didn't see the post about first hand knowledge of the closet. My mistake nangjrl sorry!
Sorry Sugar, I didn't see this post until now. It's no big deal! I know it hasn't been is some of the coverage!
As far as the daycare being legal..in Iowa providers are allowed to have 5 children of any age and be unregistered, on top of that they can have their own school aged children. This happened in the summer so the providers children were home. The reports said she had 9 children in care but didn't say if any of those were her own school age children. However she only had 3 children so she was definitely over by at least one making her illegal but possibly over by 4 children. In addition there are certain things unregistered are supposed to do the problem is since there is no oversite or education for them many don't even know they still have regulations. Being that DHS didn't even know her daycare existed I would imagine that she wasn't meeting the other regulations for an unregistered provider (on top of not meeting them because she had too many kids in care).
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racemom 08:15 PM 09-11-2015
I think when things like this happen at in home daycare it hurts all of them, legal or not. The reasoning behind that statement is the majority of the public do not realize the difference between in home daycares. The majority of people only hear in home daycare and lump you all together. They don't know the regulations or rules you are under whether licensed or not, legal or illegal. It is all the same to most people.

But, people do the same with centers, and sadly I even see that on here, with comments like large staff turnover, uncaring staff, uneducated employees, etc. It is ironic how people will quickly turn on providers, but leave their precious children with us everyday!
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Gemma 05:25 AM 09-12-2015
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I no longer feel welcomed here. Peace OUT. YOU WIN, unregistered, enjoy your forum

Blessings to all my fellow providers providing safe and loving care. Legally, of course.
It is ok to disagree, to each their own opinion....please stay!
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Rockgirl 05:39 AM 09-12-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Really? I wasn't talking about something really horrific like that McMartin case, or other abuses of media, law, etc. or something way out of the norm.

As for illegal, not, what have you..it's a non issue imo because these things happen everywhere. It's a horrible accident as was ruled, all that can be done is continued education of parents and providers.
I'd never call this an accident. Of course I don't believe the provider intended for the child to die. But she did intentionally (incorrectly) strap him into a car seat, and intentionally placed him in a closet.
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Little Learners 12:57 PM 09-14-2015
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
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You know what I find interesting? The amount of risk many providers will allow, even those who "know better". Childcare is such a liability and with ANY daycare (licensed or not) the day to day risk factor is so high that I amazed anyone wants to do it at this point. I have been seriously considering giving it up (after 17 years), because even if I do everything right, I still hold so much liability and my life could be turned upside down in a matter of seconds. Not too mention the lives of my family members. My home town is dealing with a case where the provider took kids to the pool and a girl drowned. She is now facing negligent homicide. I am scared to my job for fear of making a terrible mistake one day and having the world crash in
I agree, blows my mind at some of the things I see others do. I know one in our area that doesn't have a fence around their built in pool, and does daycare. Others take the kids out, and that's something I wouldn't do but each to their own. Let's just say a pool outing is not something I would do of all things. As paranoid as I am, it's a fact there is a lot of liability but I guess once we leave our house each day (those that do) we face a ton of risk so you can look at it that way.

Just wondering did the provider lose sight of the child? Did she have any helpers for this outing?
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:13 PM 09-14-2015
Originally Posted by Little Learners:
I agree, blows my mind at some of the things I see others do. I know one in our area that doesn't have a fence around their built in pool, and does daycare. Others take the kids out, and that's something I wouldn't do but each to their own. Let's just say a pool outing is not something I would do of all things. As paranoid as I am, it's a fact there is a lot of liability but I guess once we leave our house each day (those that do) we face a ton of risk so you can look at it that way.

Just wondering did the provider lose sight of the child? Did she have any helpers for this outing?
I am not sure of the specifics (there has been a lot of misinformation on this going around), but I believe she was with a helper. They were at a pool with two lifegaurds and from what I heard, the lifeguard is the one who spotted her at the bottom. The dcp was there, but must not have been paying attention or got distracted?

Really sad case and I am anxious to see how it plays out. The dcp is very well known in the community, so it is hitting a lot of people hard.
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Cat Herder 02:32 PM 09-14-2015
Not the first time. Won't be the last.

This is why States are banning the use of restraint devices.

We've been discussing this exact scenario for more than 20 YEARS.

Different child, different provider, same lame excuse, same scenario.
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Tags:burn out, car seats - guidelines, death at daycare, positional asphyxia, restraint, safe sleep, screams all day
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