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  #1  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:26 PM
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Default What Do You Do About The Chronic Misbehaver?

I have a couple of kids who like to get a rise out of me, especially at times like naptime and circle time when they know I don't really have the space to deal with the behavior right then and there. They'll just do one little thing after another, while staring at me to see what my reaction is. I know this, so I usually don't give them any frowns or any signs that they're on my last nerve...so they escalate.

They seem to know that the behaviors they're doing don't really warrant consequences, just a correction from me, which they want. Because they'll smile.

It drives me nuts. One of my four-year-olds at nap:

Made his mat slide back and forth across the floor to produce a scratching noise.
Got up and visited.
Chewed his blanket.
Sang and hummed songs.
Once I took his cot, sat at the table and blew raspberries.
Clapped and stomped.
Yelled other (sleeping) kid's names.
Moved the table.
Fell purposely out of the chair 10+ times....
And on and on.

I was thinking that taking away privileges may work (ex. after nap while everyone else plays, they look at a few books at the table) but I'm thinking I will probably get the same "I know Im getting on your nerves"-type behavior...

Ideas?
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:33 PM
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Pretty hard to do most of those things, standing with your nose in the corner and your hands in your hip pockets.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:48 PM
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Pretty hard to do most of those things, standing with your nose in the corner and your hands in your hip pockets.
Unless he is like one of mine that while in the corner scrateched the wall, kicked it with his feet, or would just plain scream. Drives me crazy!!!!!
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:52 PM
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Unless he is like one of mine that while in the corner scrateched the wall, kicked it with his feet, or would just plain scream. Drives me crazy!!!!!
He is . Actually there are about 4 of them...that can detect the vein on the side of my neck jumping from the other side of the room.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:05 PM
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I always wonder if there is something wrong with children like this. Truly ADD or something like that. I think (please no one flame me with this) that if that is not the case and they are just being bad kids ALL the time, that they know we can't do anything. Ex.-when I was a kid and we had done anything like that we would have received a spanking. Usually that is what all it took! I have one that parents spank but she knows she won't get one here and believe you me she brings her worst behavior with her everyday! It just amazes me at what she does because she knows the most I can do is time out with her. Even my kids have asked if something is wrong with her!
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:29 PM
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I always wonder if there is something wrong with children like this. Truly ADD or something like that. I think (please no one flame me with this) that if that is not the case and they are just being bad kids ALL the time, that they know we can't do anything. Ex.-when I was a kid and we had done anything like that we would have received a spanking. Usually that is what all it took! I have one that parents spank but she knows she won't get one here and believe you me she brings her worst behavior with her everyday! It just amazes me at what she does because she knows the most I can do is time out with her. Even my kids have asked if something is wrong with her!
Im pretty sure there's something off about my little guy. And another one, a five year old girl who has been diagnosed and is on medication...I love her to pieces but she drives me up a wall...she will just scream over and over in this high-pitched squeal "I want it right NOW!!!". She knows that will get her absolutely nothing from me, but she also knows it irks me. If I walk away from her, she follows me. She's a grown-up rage baby. The thing about her is she lives with her aunt, who allows no misbehavior from her and will spank if she believes its warranted.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:03 PM
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I had one like this but her baby days were turmoil and she was adopted at 9 months old. Her adopted parents tried really hard but they didn't have a clue. I guessed the behavior was just that constant testing at home that leaked over to daycare hours.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I always wonder if there is something wrong with children like this. Truly ADD or something like that. I think (please no one flame me with this) that if that is not the case and they are just being bad kids ALL the time, that they know we can't do anything. Ex.-when I was a kid and we had done anything like that we would have received a spanking. Usually that is what all it took! I have one that parents spank but she knows she won't get one here and believe you me she brings her worst behavior with her everyday! It just amazes me at what she does because she knows the most I can do is time out with her. Even my kids have asked if something is wrong with her!
I totally agree! They know we can't do anything about it, so they misbehave and do whatever they want. Especially the more willful children can withstand any consequence, loss of priveledges, etc. If they want to do it, or think they can get a rise out of someone, they'll do it and think the consequence was well worth it. Besides, how bad could the consequence be, anyway? It's daycare, and in daycare it's illegal to do anything. And best practices state that redirection is the key to everything. Punishment should not be used (seriously, they really do say that. I took a CDA class and they talked about that. It was really discouraging... it's all about making the child feel in control, so that you won't hurt their self-esteem, etc).
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher View Post
I totally agree! They know we can't do anything about it, so they misbehave and do whatever they want. Especially the more willful children can withstand any consequence, loss of priveledges, etc. If they want to do it, or think they can get a rise out of someone, they'll do it and think the consequence was well worth it. Besides, how bad could the consequence be, anyway? It's daycare, and in daycare it's illegal to do anything. And best practices state that redirection is the key to everything. Punishment should not be used (seriously, they really do say that. I took a CDA class and they talked about that. It was really discouraging... it's all about making the child feel in control, so that you won't hurt their self-esteem, etc).
I know. Im taking my CDA now. Have you ever used Creative Curriculum... its written by the same people who wrote the CDA textbooks. Most of its pretty good stuff, but the parts where they tell you how to deal with misbehavior were obviously written by Richard Simmons. If I approached my kids with some mamby-pamby stuff like that, they'd eat me alive. Some people live by Creative Curriculum, but it doesn't work well for me.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preschool/daycare teacher View Post
I totally agree! They know we can't do anything about it, so they misbehave and do whatever they want. Especially the more willful children can withstand any consequence, loss of priveledges, etc. If they want to do it, or think they can get a rise out of someone, they'll do it and think the consequence was well worth it. Besides, how bad could the consequence be, anyway? It's daycare, and in daycare it's illegal to do anything. And best practices state that redirection is the key to everything. Punishment should not be used (seriously, they really do say that. I took a CDA class and they talked about that. It was really discouraging... it's all about making the child feel in control, so that you won't hurt their self-esteem, etc).
I don't agree with using distraction for discipline. It's actually the worst approach you could use other than getting physical with a kid.

Distraction should ONLY be used when you are needing a kid to do something that is really good for them (like giving medicine, removing a splinter, starting an I.V., icing a head bump, giving a breathing treatment etc.). In those situations you can do a dog and pony show as far as I'm cocerned.

If it is a consequence for a behavior and you are offering them a deal that is either equal to or better than what they were doing in the first place then it is a REWARD. Rewards reinforce bad behavior.

The concept of distraction has been added in because people see that it works to get them to stop crying BUT it's value lasts as long as the destraction.. it has no value beyond that and is actually harmful if you are trying to imprint into their little brains that the bad behavior is actually bad.

They shouldn't NET self esteem in a consequence. They should net "I can't do that again.... it was wrong". Once they GET that then acting on that in the future is what adds a brick to the wall of confidence and self esteem.

Bottom line it's just like the minute of time out for each age of life. It's useless and actually escalates kids. It gives them permission to continue misbehaving.

Take the NO and then your reward you get is to do what you were supposed to be doing in the first place.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:24 PM
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Is there anywhere out of the group he can be? Even at the dark end of the hall or something? I have napped a kid in the bathroom (legs in bathroom, head out in hallway) for 1 day b/c he simply didnt get the leaving other people alone concept. Removing this kid from the group and therefore not giving him the control might help him learn he would rather function normally than be on his own. I have also let other kids have "special" privledges like reading one to one with me when they go to bed or taking 2 books to bed so the difficult ones are encouraged to be good.

Also, call him out to mom/dad about it. One mom in the past said she would pick her daughter up if she disrupted others at nap and would have consequences for her for not being able to function with the group. Once her daughter knew this she never, never, tried any nonsense with me again. Mom told me she explained the consequence would be that the daughter would do chores at home until she came to pick up her brother at the normal pick up time, then the daughter would go straight to bed (tired from all the chorse and not napping I suppose) while the boy was allowed to choose his own dinner and play whatever he wanted with mom at night. I guess if the parents mean business at home one talking to might straighten him up.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:01 AM
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parental support IS always nice, although unfortunately rare. I have never had a parent do any sort of consequence for bad behavior at daycare (that I am aware of)
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Kids View Post
I always wonder if there is something wrong with children like this. Truly ADD or something like that. I think (please no one flame me with this) that if that is not the case and they are just being bad kids ALL the time, that they know we can't do anything. Ex.-when I was a kid and we had done anything like that we would have received a spanking. Usually that is what all it took! I have one that parents spank but she knows she won't get one here and believe you me she brings her worst behavior with her everyday! It just amazes me at what she does because she knows the most I can do is time out with her. Even my kids have asked if something is wrong with her!
You know, I know this sounds bad, but threaten to tell their parents if they behave this way. I know my dad spanked me maybe 5 times in my life (and I was young), and my mom would spank but it was laughable. But the fear of my dad finding out I was bad was enough. I always knew that someone might tell my dad, so I never tried.

When my kids are being bad, I threaten them with daddy finding out. It sort of works hahaha. Because daddy is the one who will actually throw toys away, or make them stay home from dance class or camping or the cabin, etc.

Mine are on their best behaviour so far today because I told them that only my youngest is going to granny's cabin tomorrow, because the older 2 were so bad yesterday. I said if they are good, I will decide if I will let them go tomorrow or not. So far so good. I didn't say "if you are bad again you're not going" right now it's "you are not going to the cabin, unless I think you were good enough when it's time to go".

My very first dcfam the 3 yo was really big boy (just built big) and taller than my 5 yo. He was a very rough boy, and although he was good and sweet, he had many days where he was in time out. Soemtimes he did such bad things and I'd have to tell him mom. When he realized mom/dad would know what he was doing, he stopped.

eta: apparently a few posts down someone already said this. But I think this is the option right now. It's like a kid skipping school. When they skip, they fear parents finding out. When parents don't find out because teachers are not phoning home, they continue. when parents do find out, and threaten no car, no allowance or whatever else, kids stop skipping.


p.s. also depending on the behavior whether it is warranted, advise parents of a 3 strike policy. If this child continues to disrupt the rest of the group, then he is not a good fit. Termination may be the possible solution to this for the benefit of the group as a whole. Sometimes parents need a reason to behave too. This might be a thought for the parents who don't truly care how johnny acts at daycare because it's on your watch. I'm only suggesting this for a last resort. Some children are devilish, and if that child has outgrown naps and doesn't respect quiet time, and destroys property (like scratching walls etc), then it might be necessary. Obviously not napping isn't enough cause for terming.

Last edited by dEHmom; 07-14-2011 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:43 AM
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You know, I know this sounds bad, but threaten to tell their parents if they behave this way. I know my dad spanked me maybe 5 times in my life (and I was young), and my mom would spank but it was laughable. But the fear of my dad finding out I was bad was enough. I always knew that someone might tell my dad, so I never tried. When my kids are being bad, I threaten them with daddy finding out. It sort of works hahaha. Because daddy is the one who will actually throw toys away, or make them stay home from dance class or camping or the cabin, etc.

Mine are on their best behaviour so far today because I told them that only my youngest is going to granny's cabin tomorrow, because the older 2 were so bad yesterday. I said if they are good, I will decide if I will let them go tomorrow or not. So far so good. I didn't say "if you are bad again you're not going" right now it's "you are not going to the cabin, unless I think you were good enough when it's time to go".

My very first dcfam the 3 yo was really big boy (just built big) and taller than my 5 yo. He was a very rough boy, and although he was good and sweet, he had many days where he was in time out. Soemtimes he did such bad things and I'd have to tell him mom. When he realized mom/dad would know what he was doing, he stopped.
That will ONLY work if the parents are on the same page with you (the provider) AND if the parents are the ones in control at home. If the child is the "boss" at home, why would he care if you told on him....kwim?
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:46 AM
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That will ONLY work if the parents are on the same page with you (the provider) AND if the parents are the ones in control at home. If the child is the "boss" at home, why would he care if you told on him....kwim?
yep, I meant because op said they discipline at home. and is bad at daycare because they know there is nothing to worry about.

This wouldn't work on kids who rule the roost at home.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:50 PM
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Is there anywhere out of the group he can be? Even at the dark end of the hall or something? I have napped a kid in the bathroom (legs in bathroom, head out in hallway) for 1 day b/c he simply didnt get the leaving other people alone concept.


I'd nap him in the yard and watch him out the window if I could. He naps in a another room by himself, but his head peeks in to the room where I'm at. So he still can disrupt...unless I sit 2 inches away from him, but then he has me all to himself for 2+ hours. If I sit on his cot with him and rub his back he goes to sleep in 2 minutes ...but I don't rock anyone else to sleep, so not him either.

And his parents are supportive of me and have come to get him when his behavior was REALLY bad...but his 5-year-old sister out for the summer and also with me, and he gets rather "brave" when she's there because she goes home and TELLS everything. She would love to tell that dcb had to nap in the bathroom.
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