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  #1  
Old 05-11-2013, 01:08 PM
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Default Daycare and Religion

I have a friend who is an American muslim who I was talking to today. She wears western clothes and wears a scarf or a hat to cover her hair. She is interested in starting a small family daycare...maybe just a few kids to start.

She was concerned about not getting clients based on her appearance (the scarf) and parents may be deterred by her faith.

Do you think this is a valid concern?
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:12 PM
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Most of my kids are Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist . I'm a Christian. But, I never, ever talk about religion when the kids are here. They tell me things about their religion, so I understand why the kids are late, or will be gone...I respect everything they say, and would go out of my way to accommodate them.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:47 PM
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Most of my kids are Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist . I'm a Christian. But, I never, ever talk about religion when the kids are here. They tell me things about their religion, so I understand why the kids are late, or will be gone...I respect everything they say, and would go out of my way to accommodate them.
I agree...she wouldn't be teaching religion. BUT what if you were a parent and went to see a daycare and the provider wore a scarf....would that cause you to think twice about enrolling with her?
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:01 PM
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IMO, there are people who are people who discriminate based on looks no matter what the reason is. It could be tattoos, piercings, nationality or whatever. Then there are the people who are more open minded that won't see those types of "problems" and will choose her based solely on what she has to offer their children. We all take that risk when we choose to open a business selling "ourselves" and we can never truly know why they didn't choose us over another provider.

I would tell her to go for it!
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default It wouldn't deter me

If I were looking for daycare, I would be very clear with any provider that I interviewed with that I am looking for a NON faith based program. I don't care what someone's faith is, I don't want them teaching it to my child.

I would not be deterred by a person's appearance in accordance with their faith. I would be more concerned with what their contract looked like and how it jived with my needs.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:54 PM
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I think she has a valid concern but she shouldn't let it keep her from starting her child care business. There will be people who choose not to enroll their kids based on her religion. Wearing the scarf will make it easier for them to determine her religion and judge her by that. By the same token, there will also be people who choose to enroll their kids because of her religion and the way she dresses.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneluckymom View Post
I have a friend who is an American muslim who I was talking to today. She wears western clothes and wears a scarf or a hat to cover her hair. She is interested in starting a small family daycare...maybe just a few kids to start.

She was concerned about not getting clients based on her appearance (the scarf) and parents may be deterred by her faith.

Do you think this is a valid concern?
American Muslim here. The ones who wont want to work with her if she is wearing a scarf are not the ones she wants in care anyways.

I wear western clothes too (jeans and nice shirts) but i do were a light long jacket and scarf when I go out. Most often I deal with moms and kids so I don't worry about wearing the scarf and jacket unless dad also comes to interviews.

I feel that religion is best left at home and it is not my place to teach someone else child nor theirs to teach mine (if I had any) and I make that clear to parents. I also have a non discrimination policy in my PHB and if I find a parent is causing problem for me or another family due to race, religion, marital status, sexual orientation etc then it is grounds for immediate termination. I feel my environment should be safe and welcoming for all kids in my care and if I feel during an interview there will be some hostility from a family due to my religion then it is not a good fit to begin with.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:56 PM
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American Muslim here. The ones who wont want to work with her if she is wearing a scarf are not the ones she wants in care anyways.

I wear western clothes too (jeans and nice shirts) but i do were a light long jacket and scarf when I go out. Most often I deal with moms and kids so I don't worry about wearing the scarf and jacket unless dad also comes to interviews.

I feel that religion is best left at home and it is not my place to teach someone else child nor theirs to teach mine (if I had any) and I make that clear to parents. I also have a non discrimination policy in my PHB and if I find a parent is causing problem for me or another family due to race, religion, marital status, sexual orientation etc then it is grounds for immediate termination. I feel my environment should be safe and welcoming for all kids in my care and if I feel during an interview there will be some hostility from a family due to my religion then it is not a good fit to begin with.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:42 PM
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I personally would have no concerns enrolling my kids in a daycare run by someone from another religion, as long as that person was credible and reliable.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:05 PM
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Thank you for all of your comments and advice
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneluckymom View Post
I have a friend who is an American muslim who I was talking to today. She wears western clothes and wears a scarf or a hat to cover her hair. She is interested in starting a small family daycare...maybe just a few kids to start.

She was concerned about not getting clients based on her appearance (the scarf) and parents may be deterred by her faith.

Do you think this is a valid concern?
It wouldn't bother me if I liked a provider but I wrestled with the same thing being an atheist myself. It is nothing you can see like the way I dress but I would never share it with a client unless asked outright. Even then I would say "I'm not religious" and leave it at that. I have always said that telling people 'might' be 'bad for business.' Not that I'm ashamed of it in any way but some people have weird misconceptions about it. One time someone said to me "Well do you salute the flag?" Huh? So yes, I do think it is a valid concern but I'd go for it anyway if I were her.

That said, I wouldn't send my child to a daycare that openly taught any religion or prayed with the children, etc. As long as she is running a secular program I wouldn't have a problem with it. I sent my son to a preschool that was run by a nun. I just checked to make sure it was a secular program and it was.

It is up to her whether to wear the scarf or not. Honestly, she may not get some people with it but may get more people of her own faith with it. So it can be a gamble. Scarf or not, it would not keep me from trying to open a child care if I were her. Of course, I am in a melting pot kind of area. She may not be. My own street is a melting pot of races and religions including Muslim. It wouldn't be a concern here. However, if she is in the Bible belt it might be a different situation.

She'll probably do just fine.

Laurel
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:27 PM
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It wouldn't bother me, I would want my kids to be accepting of other cultures. I always loved learning about different cultures and religions. There was one lady who worked at my middle school who always wore a hijab, I ran in to her a few years later when I worked at Michaels, she was nice.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:11 PM
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There are a few people at my center who are Muslim and cover their head. It has never seemed to be an issue with any parents having her with their kids. Some Christians do head covering as well.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:00 AM
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I agree...she wouldn't be teaching religion. BUT what if you were a parent and went to see a daycare and the provider wore a scarf....would that cause you to think twice about enrolling with her?
I bet it depends on where she lives. Here, it wouldn't be strange, but, in say Mississippi, it probably would be. Around here, we are all "Ooh.. Lookee, diversity!"
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:51 AM
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I bet it depends on where she lives. Here, it wouldn't be strange, but, in say Mississippi, it probably would be. Around here, we are all "Ooh.. Lookee, diversity!"
<<<<<<lives in Mississippi.

We have quite a bit of diversity here..... And quite a bit of reverse racism.

Its my experience most of the Muslim communities here, the ladies don't work. It's not unusual to see them in head coverings in almost every store.

Now in my small community, there aren't any Muslims. So it may be a little different to see one in this community.

I'm Christian, but a head covering at interview or a Muslim caregiver wouldn't bother me one bit. As long as they have passed a background check like I have, have CPR and first aid, great references and a similar schedule and their home daycare met the needs of my family, I wouldn't care if they had a snake wrapped around their neck at interview lol
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:56 AM
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It may deter some people, but I don't think it is something for her to worry about. I would just advertise like anyone else and if a family does not want their child there then they don't have to enroll.

I do have a Christian based program. I tell parents that I believe it is the parents primary responsibility to teach their religious beliefs to their child. However, I do share christian values, simple prayers at meal time, songs, and bible stories from time to time. This is important to me because my religion is my lifestyle and it would be hard for me to separate that (especially since I work in my home).

If someone does not choose her because of her religion it does not necessarily mean they are being prejudiced. They may just want a program that aligns with their religious beliefs. Many people choose catholic or Christian or Jewish or Muslim schools because they want their own religious teachings/beliefs passed down at school as well as home.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:15 AM
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If someone does not choose her because of her religion it does not necessarily mean they are being prejudiced. They may just want a program that aligns with their religious beliefs. Many people choose catholic or Christian or Jewish or Muslim schools because they want their own religious teachings/beliefs passed down at school as well as home.
I totally agree.

I absolutely do not think it would be prejudice at all. Just as a Non Christian would not ever choose your program because of the prayer, it would still not be prejudice.

Being Christian myself, I would only choose either a Christian provider, or a more secular provider. Not a provider who would teach her religion to my child. EXPOSING my child to other religions is wonderful. TEACHING it is not. (The friend in the OP is not going to teach her religion, so that would not ever be a problem) I never teach Christianity anymore, because I have only two Christian families in my whole group.

I also do not think that just because you live in the Bible Belt that you are prejudice. I feel like if I move to a small town in Mississippi I would integrate myself into that world. I don't automatically assume that they need to change for others. If an entire town wants to pray just before the high school basketball game, then wonderful. If one person eleven states over makes a huge fuss about that, then shame on them. People should mind their business, stay where they belong (in their own business) and stop being so emotionally fragile about what others are doing in their own town.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:27 AM
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If someone does not choose her because of her religion it does not necessarily mean they are being prejudiced.
BAM.

I would not enroll my children because teaching my children about gender equality is important to me. While I also believe teaching tolerance is just as important, and would respect her believing woman are on a different proverbial "playing field" than men, I would not want my children around that mentality regularly.

That said I'm sure she is not the only Muslim in her area and people might actually seek her out for her beliefs. There is no reason why she shouldn't pursue doing daycare.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Oneluckymom View Post
I have a friend who is an American muslim who I was talking to today. She wears western clothes and wears a scarf or a hat to cover her hair. She is interested in starting a small family daycare...maybe just a few kids to start.

She was concerned about not getting clients based on her appearance (the scarf) and parents may be deterred by her faith.

Do you think this is a valid concern?
It's a valid concern as far as there are ignorant people who will not like her because she's Muslim. She doesn't want those people anyway.

The families who won't care are the ones she will want and get. She should go ahead and start her business. There will always be stupid people.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:53 AM
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I know of many people looking for care in a non-faith based program.

I, personally, run a CHRISTIAN program and it's very obvious. The name of my program has the word "Christian" in it, we pray, we learn the 10 Commandments, we read the Bible, we memorize Bible verses, we discuss things from a Christian viewpoint (such as creation), etc. I have many in attendance here who aren't practicing Christians. I've only run into an issue with one interviewing family who wanted to know if I "cram Christianity down the children's throats."
If someone doesn't value a Christian program then I'm not the place for them. If someone doesn't value a non-faith based program then yours might not be the program for them.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:33 PM
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It's a valid concern as far as there are ignorant people who will not like her because she's Muslim. She doesn't want those people anyway.

The families who won't care are the ones she will want and get. She should go ahead and start her business. There will always be stupid people.
But, this doesn't make them stupid or ignorant. It's the parent's choice. It isn't as if all parents who would not choose her have no common sense. It's offensive to say that a parent who would not choose her are stupid and ignorant. They just need something else. There are SOO many personal reasons not to choose a provider that has a different faith. I don't know them all, but I doubt it's out of ignorance.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:34 PM
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But, this doesn't make them stupid or ignorant. It's the parent's choice. It isn't as if all parents who would not choose her have no common sense. It's offensive to say that a parent who would not choose her are stupid and ignorant. They just need something else. There are SOO many personal reasons not to choose a provider that has a different faith. I don't know them all, but I doubt it's out of ignorance.
Not liking someone because they are Muslim is both stupid and ignorant. I'm not addressing valid reasons to not want to enroll a child with a Muslim daycare provider -- not liking someone solely because of their religion isn't a valid reason.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:23 PM
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BAM.

I would not enroll my children because teaching my children about gender equality is important to me. While I also believe teaching tolerance is just as important, and would respect her believing woman are on a different proverbial "playing field" than men, I would not want my children around that mentality regularly.

That said I'm sure she is not the only Muslim in her area and people might actually seek her out for her beliefs. There is no reason why she shouldn't pursue doing daycare.

I think you have some misconceptions about Islam if you think that Muslim women are not equal to men. Most people assume that shuri law and other such practices in so called Islamic countries is how Islam work but that is not true. That is culture. My husband also dresses modestly when he is out and covers his head during prayers.

For the longest time I did not wear a scarf and no one hassled me over it. This is America. If a women is observing purdah (dressing modestly) then she is doing it of her own free will. Would you tell a nun she is making herself lower then a man by wearing a habit?
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:39 PM
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A Catholic nun dresses the same regardless of whether her company is male or female.

You are comparing apple's to green beans there missjenny.



It would not sit right with me to teach my children that a woman has to shroud/cover her head or face in the presence of my husband but not in the presence of me.

Fine if that's what she believes and wants to do herself, but just as I respect our differences I'd expect her to offer me the same.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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Not liking someone because they are Muslim is both stupid and ignorant. I'm not addressing valid reasons to not want to enroll a child with a Muslim daycare provider -- not liking someone solely because of their religion isn't a valid reason.

But, how did this derail to LIKING someone? It was always about enrolling your children in a daycare. Not about liking them as a person.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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Not liking someone because they are Muslim is both stupid and ignorant. I'm not addressing valid reasons to not want to enroll a child with a Muslim daycare provider -- not liking someone solely because of their religion isn't a valid reason.

So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?

Using your reasoning as long as they treated your child kindly there would be no reason to judge them as anything but human, right?


Both enrolling your child in a daycare and being an actual provider there is a lot of scrutiny involved. Both sides want to end up with the best match possible. Whatever is important to either party - is valid. The opinions of both should be respected. Disagreeing about potty training philosophies does not make one or the other ignorant, it just means two people have come to different conclusions. If that cannot be rectified both should agree to move on because the standing issue will not just magically disappear for convenience sake.

The issue of personal and religious or spiritual beliefs is and should be approached no differently. Moving on is better for all if you can't get on the same page.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:23 PM
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Children are going to be more influenced by how you act and live then what you say and tell them.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:40 PM
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But, how did this derail to LIKING someone? It was always about enrolling your children in a daycare. Not about liking them as a person.
I'm with you. I didn't hear a single person here say that just because someone wouldn't choose a Muslim provider meant they didn't LIKE HER.

What I got was that they wouldn't feel that their personal beliefs would meld well. I also run a Christian program and I advertise that. If someone Muslim decided this wasn't the program for me, I wouldn't think it was because they didn't LIKE ME.

That's ridiculous . It's a personal preference. Just like others have said they wouldn't pick a provider who transports, or wouldn't pick a provider with too many tattoo, or wouldn't pick a provider who takes pain medication.

It's all about personal preference and deciding if that FCC or center etc would serve in the best interest of THEIR family.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:43 PM
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I take no offense when people discover I am not a woman running my daycare Though I am sure I would have more kids by now if I were.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:21 AM
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So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?
Are you implying that Muslims worship Satan because they don't follow a conventional Christian god?
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:46 AM
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Are you implying that Muslims worship Satan because they don't follow a conventional Christian god?

Of course. That's exactly what I am saying because I am THAT level of stupid.

I hate everyone who is not Christian even though I don't adhere to those beliefs myself......I am completely convinced everyone else worships the devil but me
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:02 AM
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Of course. That's exactly what I am saying because I am THAT level of stupid.

I hate everyone who is not Christian even though I don't adhere to those beliefs myself......I am completely convinced everyone else worships the devil but me
I KNEW there was something "off" about you!

You KNOW I am kidding....



Starburst~ I think you are taking what she said out of context. You need to go back and read the whole conversation....it makes more sense that way.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:04 AM
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Are you implying that Muslims worship Satan because they don't follow a conventional Christian god?
How did you even read it that way?

I mean, I understand wanting to start an absurd argument, but at LEAST sign in as unregistered to do it so it can cause the extra drama.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:54 AM
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LOL things are so crazy here. I have no problem with people, we are supposed to love everyone. And anyone who is firm on their faith and belief is going to follow through on that belief and faith as directed by their own personal heart.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:04 AM
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since when did muslims become satan worshiping people I thought it was the christian faith.

really, this is the most stupids comment ever. Muslim people are the same as you and me, just because she wears a shawl (and I've seen some absolutley gorgeous ones, makes me jealous) makes her no different than a person who has tattoos on thier bodies, or women who only wear skirts.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:08 AM
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Okay the Muslim faith and Christian faith are not one and the same. Ill make that clear without putting either down. You have to look into their roots and beliefs. Much of what the Islamic beliefs stem off of Abraham's son Ishmael rather than Isaac. They are not the same.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:09 AM
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LOL things are so crazy here. I have no problem with people, we are supposed to love everyone. And anyone who is firm on their faith and belief is going to follow through on that belief and faith as directed by their own personal heart.
So are you saying that atheists aren't loving because we have no 'faith or belief' that would lead us in the direction of being loving? JUST KIDDING! I could not resist!

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Old 05-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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since when did muslims become satan worshiping people I thought it was the christian faith.
Wait. Are you saying Christians worship Satan?
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  #39  
Old 05-14-2013, 10:22 AM
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Funny. Actually having faith in nothing.... well ill never quite get that because as far back I can remember I believed in God. I believe that the things in the Bible can be practiced by non believers and get just as much good results as far as doing good things and being loving to others. In the end I believe there is only One Way.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:42 AM
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Starburst~ I think you are taking what she said out of context. You need to go back and read the whole conversation....it makes more sense that way.
I read it all. I just find it interesting that she was the one saying: "You are comparing apple's to green beans..." and then jumped to this. How do you jump from Muslims to Satanists (especially after a comment like that)? How would you know someone is a Satanist? It's not always that obvious because not all of them have horns, wear dark robes, and have pentagrams drawn on their living room floors. But if someone wore a cross or a hijab its easier to know what their faith is.

Willow has done the same exact thing to me, I just mentioned aspirin once in a HYPOTHETICAL situation as an example of needing parental permission to give medication to a child (the sunscreen thread) and she went on about it saying "you should never give aspirin to a child" or "why did you mention aspirin? why not Tylenol?" on that post and once it was settled she found something else I said to start up another issue with. And BC you did the same thing to me on the thread about providers on prescription pills when you asked me "are you saying that people in wheelchairs cannot be good providers?" when I was talking about my main issue being that the provider had chronic back problems and I was trying to make a point that overtime caring for young children will hurt your back even more. She did not say that she was in a wheelchair, and not everyone in wheelchairs have back problems-that's a stereotype. How come it's okay for you guys to do that but not me? I just want to make sure you are being clear and that I am not misinterpreting your comments.

and yourtooloud I am not trying to start an "Absurd" argument; as Willow said to me once on here "you have to be careful what you say on here, people take things you say as life or death" (same sunscreen thread). Don't people take religion as life or death? I am not trying to start up drama, I just want to know what she meant by her comment. And why should I have to hide as an unregistered guest when I am just speaking my mind? I am not just someone who is bored and decided to start a fake thread (or trolling) just to get a rise out of people. Am I not entitled to my own opinions? If I want to leave myself open for ridicule by standing up for something then that is my choice. Willow is sharing her opinions I am just trying to make sure I fully understand the point she is making.
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  #41  
Old 05-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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and yourtooloud I am not trying to start an "Absurd" argument; as Willow said to me once on here "you have to be careful what you say on here, people take things you say as life an death" (same sunscreen thread). I am not trying to start up drama, I just want to know what she meant by her comment. And why should I have to hide as an unregistered person when I am just speaking my mind? I am not just someone who is bored and decided to start a fake thread (or trolling) just to get a rise out of people. Am I not entitled to my own opinions? Willow is sharing her opinions I am just trying to make sure I fully understand the point she is making.

I was being sarcastic because this once normal thread had taken a ridiculous turn.

I also remember the Asprin comment, and thought that was stupid. I say that all the time.

Someone said something dumb to me the other day. I can't remember what it was, but it was something along the lines of the asprin comment.

Honestly, some of the things that get posted here are hilariously absurd. "Liability" is the most popular word here. I think "OMFG" so many times on this board, yet I can't look away. It's always so bizzarre. And, yes, I occasionally purposely fan the flames because it's so darn easy. People here are the most literal group I have ever seen. "But, you said you shook him....you should never shake a baby, it could cause death". I think "Seriously?"
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  #42  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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Anyone else need some wine n popcorn??!

This thread has officially crossed the line into bat crap crazy territory....jeezum freaking crow lol
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  #43  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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Anyone else need some wine n popcorn??!

This thread has officially crossed the line into bat crap crazy territory....jeezum freaking crow lol

I have a feverish kid in my lap, and no place to go. So, i'm enjoying this just a little.

It's just a few horror stories away from being that McMartin Satan worshiping daycare center cult from the 80s.

I heard muslims kill turtles in front of children and make them learn satanic chants.
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  #44  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:11 AM
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Anyone else need some wine n popcorn??!

This thread has officially crossed the line into bat crap crazy territory....jeezum freaking crow lol
wait....let me get my jacket too...

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  #45  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:17 AM
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I have a feverish kid in my lap, and no place to go. So, i'm enjoying this just a little.

It's just a few horror stories away from being that McMartin Satan worshiping daycare center cult from the 80s.

I heard muslims kill turtles in front of children and make them learn satanic chants.


Apparently boredom equates to bravery and brazen-ness for ya lol!!!!!!
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  #46  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:24 AM
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wait....let me get my jacket too...


We'll have to get t-shirts made up, it's way too hot for the jackets today


BTW - you have your ac on yet?

I'm not going to lie, I'm extremely tempted but also don't want mother nature to get her panties in a wad and go all bi-polar again on us for me getting too comfortable. I still have a Santa up on top my china hutch for the same superstitious reason......I swear she's watching, just waiting to throw the next loop as soon as she thinks we've sank too far into the land of complacency
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:45 AM
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Apparently boredom equates to bravery and brazen-ness for ya lol!!!!!!
It's probably how I am all the time.. But, now I have too much time to sit here and think about it.
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  #48  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 AM
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LOL things are so crazy here. I have no problem with people, we are supposed to love everyone. And anyone who is firm on their faith and belief is going to follow through on that belief and faith as directed by their own personal heart.
Well said. I couldn't agree more.
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  #49  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:50 AM
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This thread has gotten WAAAAY out of control.

Never meant to cause a BIG controversy
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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This thread has gotten WAAAAY out of control.

Never meant to cause a BIG controversy

Not your fault.

It was a perfectly valid question!
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  #51  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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How did you even read it that way?

I mean, I understand wanting to start an absurd argument, but at LEAST sign in as unregistered to do it so it can cause the extra drama.
This is so hilarious that I just choked on my coffee... And I'm not even drinking coffee...
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  #52  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:01 PM
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We'll have to get t-shirts made up, it's way too hot for the jackets today


BTW - you have your ac on yet?

I'm not going to lie, I'm extremely tempted but also don't want mother nature to get her panties in a wad and go all bi-polar again on us for me getting too comfortable. I still have a Santa up on top my china hutch for the same superstitious reason......I swear she's watching, just waiting to throw the next loop as soon as she thinks we've sank too far into the land of complacency
LOL! Spoken like a true Northerner..... I am terrified to do anything to set her (Mother Nature) off.... my snow shovels are still on the front deck and although tempting, the A/C still has it's cover on it because....well because I am afraid of her.....

and yeah, t-shirts might be a much wiser choice.
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  #53  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:02 PM
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it seems to have become more trying to find ways to poke at someone that's been bothering "you" (general) then posting on topic
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Not your fault.

It was a perfectly valid question!
I agree, it just took a hard left into crazy town
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  #54  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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Anyone else need some wine n popcorn??!

This thread has officially crossed the line into bat crap crazy territory....jeezum freaking crow lol
Pretty much.
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  #55  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:16 PM
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I know of many people looking for care in a non-faith based program.

I, personally, run a CHRISTIAN program and it's very obvious. The name of my program has the word "Christian" in it, we pray, we learn the 10 Commandments, we read the Bible, we memorize Bible verses, we discuss things from a Christian viewpoint (such as creation), etc. I have many in attendance here who aren't practicing Christians. I've only run into an issue with one interviewing family who wanted to know if I "cram Christianity down the children's throats."
If someone doesn't value a Christian program then I'm not the place for them. If someone doesn't value a non-faith based program then yours might not be the program for them.

I don't run a Christian based program but do cover a lot of Christian Themes and activities. During interview I tell the parents about this, and i even have them sign a form where it says that they know that the child is being exposed to the Christian religion, we pray, we read bible stories and sometimes do monthly themes from the Bible, we love it and so far parents don have anything against it.
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  #56  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:21 PM
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Funny. Actually having faith in nothing.... well ill never quite get that because as far back I can remember I believed in God. I believe that the things in the Bible can be practiced by non believers and get just as much good results as far as doing good things and being loving to others. In the end I believe there is only One Way.
I have faith in a lot of things just not in a god/gods. I have faith in my doctor, for example.

I really wouldn't ever see a need to use a Bible to guide me in doing good things or being loving. I have been doing it all by myself with much success. Besides, as I like to joke with my Christian friends, if I ever do something bad there is always jail. That kind of gives me some guidelines if ya know what I mean.

Laurel
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  #57  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:26 PM
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I don't run a Christian based program but do cover a lot of Christian Themes and activities. During interview I tell the parents about this, and i even have them sign a form where it says that they know that the child is being exposed to the Christian religion, we pray, we read bible stories and sometimes do monthly themes from the Bible, we love it and so far parents don have anything against it.
Well that is great that you let the parents know. The form is wonderful. I would not choose that for my child but at least I'd know. Good for you!

I'm curious though. How is the above NOT a Christian based program? Bible stories, praying and some monthly Christian themes seems like a Christian based program to me. I'm not sure I understand what would constitute a Christian based program if the above doesn't.

Thanks, Laurel
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  #58  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:47 PM
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our schools here are a bit different than you guys in the u.s Here you don't have to pay to go to school. We have public schools, and catholic schools.

public schools don't do religion
catholic schools teach catholic religion

so my odd is in grade 9, she has always gone to the public school. well when it was time to go to highschool, she could go to any highschool in our boundry. I did my homework and she goes to a catholic highschool. Not only is it uniformed but they have a great academic program. Even thou we are catholic, it had nothing to do with our religion. She did very well in the religion program last semester, she had a 95 percent--her reasoning, was that she wasnt all bibled out lol!

you see, religion shouldn't have to do with anything. If they offer religion, fine, but you need to look at the bigger picture. What do daycares offers, the food, the outside time. Places don't shove religion down anyones throat. Everyone learns the same things, religion is just a different perk.

I just find it rude to say that such and such a religion is into satan. How do some of you guys know unless you are that religion. Sure I heard all sorts of things about different religions, but that doesn't mean it true. My dh is athiest, he thinks if he goes to church it will burn down, well so far it hasn't burned down.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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I just find it rude to say that such and such a religion is into satan. How do some of you guys know unless you are that religion. Sure I heard all sorts of things about different religions, but that doesn't mean it true. My dh is athiest, he thinks if he goes to church it will burn down, well so far it hasn't burned down.
But, nobody said that. Someone misread it, and then it got snarky. (I might have caused most of the snark)

The person was saying "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" It in no way meant "Any religion other than Christianity is satanic"

The point was, for SOME people, the religion taught IS important. It might not be to everyone, but for some people, it is important, and there is nothing wrong with thinking it is important. Because each parent gets to choose for their own family. Nobody has it 100% right for all people. Individuals get to choose, and their choice is OK too. Not choosing a provider based on her faith, does not mean they hate Muslims and are stupid or ignorant. (that was not you who said it) I just means a choice. To say "We have two schools, non religious and Catholic....we are catholic, but we didn't care about the religion taught".....but, you are Catholic, so obviously, the choice wasn't hard. You only had TWO to choose from!

I choose not to bring up any religion at all in my daycare. Because I have very few Christian children. So, we don't say things like "Jesus is the reason for the season" or "Play with this nativity set while I make lunch" or "Who wants to sing This little light of mine?"
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:17 PM
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Uhhh.......frankly I'm not even sure how to answer that countrymom......

You don't need to actively practice a religion to understand the very core of what it is.

Satanists are into Satan. I'm not making that up nor is it any sort of judgment. They are no less legitimate than Buddhists, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Muslims or any other religion is.

The ONLY difference is that culturally it's far less socially acceptable to ascribe to such dark beliefs. That's why I used it as an example (read -NOT A COMPARISON). Odds are not many parents would feel comfortable sending their child to a provider who is a Satanist. EVEN IF they don't preach or practice during daycare hours it still wouldn't sit right with most.

There is nothing wrong with that.

Just like there is nothing wrong with parents feeling opposed to exposing their child to any other religion or set of beliefs would be (or at least that's how I feel).


If my grandfather believed my grandmother needed to live a life of submission to him I'd hesitate to bring either my son or my daughter around him much too. Not because I didn't love him or respect his beliefs, but because I don't share those beliefs and don't care to impose those "values" on their impressionable young minds.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:45 AM
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But, nobody said that. Someone misread it, and then it got snarky. (I might have caused most of the snark)

The person was saying "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" It in no way meant "Any religion other than Christianity is satanic"
The point was, for SOME people, the religion taught IS important. It might not be to everyone, but for some people, it is important, and there is nothing wrong with thinking it is important. Because each parent gets to choose for their own family. Nobody has it 100% right for all people. Individuals get to choose, and their choice is OK too. Not choosing a provider based on her faith, does not mean they hate Muslims and are stupid or ignorant. (that was not you who said it) I just means a choice. To say "We have two schools, non religious and Catholic....we are catholic, but we didn't care about the religion taught".....but, you are Catholic, so obviously, the choice wasn't hard. You only had TWO to choose from!

I choose not to bring up any religion at all in my daycare. Because I have very few Christian children. So, we don't say things like "Jesus is the reason for the season" or "Play with this nativity set while I make lunch" or "Who wants to sing This little light of mine?"
1. I wasn't being snarky, I was trying to understand why she went from Muslims to Satanist? I personally find it offensive that no one was talking about that and she jumped to it like that. And I did not misinterpret it
2. There was no talk about it being religious based, just her wearing a hijab during work. If she is not teaching religion than what is the big deal?
3. I Took what she said literally not figuratively, she did not say "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" she said flat out " So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?" that comes off like "You might as well be leaving your child off with someone who worships the devil" to me. That "then" part comes off as snarky and changes the whole tone of things (like the thread about the word "Wow" on the forum). That second bold print part was not even my argument it was that it seems she is judging Muslims based on stereotypes.
4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke
5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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And I did not misinterpret it
Uhhh, yes. You did.

I wasn't responding to the original post, I was responding to Rosiesmom which is exactly why I quoted her specifically.

The very definition of misinterpretation is MISUNDERSTANDING.

You misunderstood. You interpreted incorrectly.

Even after I and many others have clarified for you multiple times you still continue to be ridiculous.

I will concede that at this point I suppose it's no longer a misinterpretation, you're just kicking an insanely concocted and imaginary dead horse.....but originally anyway.........


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I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke
That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!

Just like any other parent does regarding things like the philosophies, beliefs and core values of the people they choose to leave their children in the care of!!!!!


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Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors?
Sort of like when you call someone a bigot and they're really not one and then won't let it the hell go??
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:14 PM
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Not liking someone because they are Muslim is both stupid and ignorant. I'm not addressing valid reasons to not want to enroll a child with a Muslim daycare provider -- not liking someone solely because of their religion isn't a valid reason.
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So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?

Using your reasoning as long as they treated your child kindly there would be no reason to judge them as anything but human, right?
Response to ROSIE's post, and the following sentence keeps getting ignored. Without quoting it or paying attention to it you are taking what she said out of context. Comparing situations is not a racist comment, its applying the same logic to different things. Rosie said you can't judge someone on their religion alone, so Willow was responding to her asking if she still felt the same if it was a different religion (one with a more negative context in our society).

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1. I wasn't being snarky, I was trying to understand why she went from Muslims to Satanist? I personally find it offensive that no one was talking about that and she jumped to it like that. And I did not misinterpret it
2. There was no talk about it being religious based, just her wearing a hijab during work. If she is not teaching religion than what is the big deal?
3. I Took what she said literally not figuratively, she did not say "If religion is not important to you, would you also choose a satanic provider?" she said flat out " So you would have no problem dropping your child off with a Satanist then?" that comes off like "You might as well be leaving your child off with someone who worships the devil" to me. That "then" part comes off as snarky and changes the whole tone of things (like the thread about the word "Wow" on the forum). That second bold print part was not even my argument it was that it seems she is judging Muslims based on stereotypes.
4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke
5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.
We adults, not children. BC is not here to clean up what we are exposed to or delete something every time someone cries foul, we'd have barely any threads then. I can see if it was an actual racist comment aim specifically at one person or group but that is not what the comments you are talking about was. The sister wives thread was started specifically for drama, BC knew it was a registered member who wasn't a polygamist (and she as since has admitted to doing it for drama), I'm tired of hearing about this thread.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:17 PM
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Well that is great that you let the parents know. The form is wonderful. I would not choose that for my child but at least I'd know. Good for you!

I'm curious though. How is the above NOT a Christian based program? Bible stories, praying and some monthly Christian themes seems like a Christian based program to me. I'm not sure I understand what would constitute a Christian based program if the above doesn't.

Thanks, Laurel
Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why i dont consider my program a Christian one.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurel View Post
Well that is great that you let the parents know. The form is wonderful. I would not choose that for my child but at least I'd know. Good for you!

I'm curious though. How is the above NOT a Christian based program? Bible stories, praying and some monthly Christian themes seems like a Christian based program to me. I'm not sure I understand what would constitute a Christian based program if the above doesn't.

Thanks, Laurel
Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why I
dont consider my program a Christian one.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:23 PM
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response to rosie's post, and the following sentence keeps getting ignored. Without quoting it or paying attention to it you are taking what she said out of context. Comparing situations is not a racist comment, its applying the same logic to different things.
thank you!!!!

Last edited by Blackcat31; 05-15-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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5. Honestly I expected more out of BC as a website monitor, I thought she would at least say that comment about the turtles was going too far since it singles out a group of people and spreads prejudice rumors. She closed the thread about the "Sister wives" but let that through? Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on.
Why would you expect more out of me?

I am not the playroom monitor.

I am a moderator, not the opinion police.

I often ignore many ignorant or uneducated posts simply to NOT add fuel to the fire.

The sister wives thread was closed due to the fact that it was started by a member of this forum with the SOLE intention of stirring the pot and creating unnecessary drama.

Also WHY a thread is closed, really isn't discussed openly among all the forum members as sometimes it really isn't any of anyone's business other than the moderators and Michael.

What gives you the impression that it is my job to make sure rumors aren't being spread? That is an odd comment.

The members of this forum are grown women who ALL have opinions. Where the word rumor came from, or the fact that I am suppose to do something about them is confusing.

If someone makes a comment that offends you, either report the post to any of the moderators Michael or use the red/yellow flags on the top right of the posting box.

This lets mods and admin know you are offended by something.

Other than that, you are on your own as far as whether you are insulted or offended by something someone posts. Either ignore, their comment, report it or say something to them.

I don't read every single post that is posted on the forum. I also know for a fact that the member who made the turtle comment was being sarcastic and wasn't being serious at all. I take that into consideration too.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:43 PM
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4. I know you were joking about the turtle comment but I think that is still wrong to even joke about it and that feed into prejudice. If someone told offensive racist jokes I would expect it would be edited/deleted by the monitor (like the one about the "4 year old serial killer") or they monitor would ask them to change it because it is a xenophobic remark. You said you don't bring up any religion at all in your daycare but that doesn't mean that the parents don't have their own values and religions. I personally would not want to leave a child with someone who thinks its funny to joke

That doesn't even make sense. Why would you not choose a provider who thinks jokes are funny?

I'm not sure what year you were born, but the turtle incident was something from the 80s. There was a mass hysteria, where parents were accusing providers of being satan worshipers and child molesters. There was a giant witch hunt, a lot of lives were destroyed. The parents and psychologists claimed that the kids were forced to sit in a circle and chant while the director cut the head off a pet turtle in a ritual.

Only, it turns out, the psychologists were lying, and putting the stories into the kid's heads. But, it was too late, because those lives were all ruined anyway.

I think there were close to 20 daycare centers taken down by this hysteria of lies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-car...abuse_hysteria

So, calling me a Xenophobe is not only very wrong, because I am one of the most open minded people I know. I have no fear of the unknown, but I have a darn fine sense of humor. And, I wouldn't want a family in my care that had no use for jokes or fun. I understand that some people prefer a more serious attitude, and that's great. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not for my group. We joke all the time.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:16 PM
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Uhhh, yes. You did.

I wasn't responding to the original post, I was responding to Rosiesmom which is exactly why I quoted her specifically.

The very definition of misinterpretation is MISUNDERSTANDING.

You misunderstood. You interpreted incorrectly.

Even after I and many others have clarified for you multiple times you still continue to be ridiculous.

I will concede that at this point I suppose it's no longer a misinterpretation, you're just kicking an insanely concocted and imaginary dead horse.....but originally anyway.........




That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!

Just like any other parent does regarding things like the philosophies, beliefs and core values of the people they choose to leave their children in the care of!!!!!




Sort of like when you call someone a bigot and they're really not one and then won't let it the hell go??
That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!


seriously????
how could you say something like this to someone?
do you even know why she doesn't have kids yet?
this is just cold blooded mean!
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:31 PM
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Well the reason I don't see it as a Christian Based program is because it does not happen all the time. Not every week we do Christian themes and we often forget to pray ( busy days ) this year we got better with the praying and the kids like it a lot. Is something I like to do with them, not something I have to do because is in the curriculum for a week. And also if a Christian family comes and I tell them that is a Christian Program they might expect much more , and I am not prepared for that yet, that is why i dont consider my program a Christian one.
Oh okay, thanks!

When I had my son in a Montessori preschool run by a nun I asked her whether the program was secular or religious. She said it was secular with no praying, no Bible stories, etc. She said about the only thing she does is at Christmas time puts out a small creche...a child type one. It is kind of like one of those Fisher Price Farms except it was a creche. She said no religious instruction goes with it. It is just there if the children want to play with it like they do the farm. So that was fine with me. Unlike when my child's third grade teacher was reading Bible stories to the children without the parents knowledge in a public elementary school. NOT okay with me but we eventually settled that amicably. I was always friendly....her, not so much although she did come around and when the principal asked me if I wanted my next child in her class (a few years later) I said fine as long as she doesn't read Bible stories to the class. I was his substitute secretary so he asked me first.

Laurel
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:32 PM
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It wouldn't bother me if I liked a provider but I wrestled with the same thing being an atheist myself. It is nothing you can see like the way I dress but I would never share it with a client unless asked outright. Even then I would say "I'm not religious" and leave it at that. I have always said that telling people 'might' be 'bad for business.' Not that I'm ashamed of it in any way but some people have weird misconceptions about it. One time someone said to me "Well do you salute the flag?" Huh? So yes, I do think it is a valid concern but I'd go for it anyway if I were her.

That said, I wouldn't send my child to a daycare that openly taught any religion or prayed with the children, etc. As long as she is running a secular program I wouldn't have a problem with it. I sent my son to a preschool that was run by a nun. I just checked to make sure it was a secular program and it was.

It is up to her whether to wear the scarf or not. Honestly, she may not get some people with it but may get more people of her own faith with it. So it can be a gamble. Scarf or not, it would not keep me from trying to open a child care if I were her. Of course, I am in a melting pot kind of area. She may not be. My own street is a melting pot of races and religions including Muslim. It wouldn't be a concern here. However, if she is in the Bible belt it might be a different situation.

She'll probably do just fine.

Laurel
Athiest here too. I often wondered whether people would notice that I didn't have much hanging on my walls. No JC, no crosses, etc.

I have had families ask if we prayed as a group before breakfast or lunch. I openly said, "The children that can talk are welcome to do whatever they are comfortable with but I do not initiate or invite children to repeat after me nor will I start a prayer."

They chose another provider and that is perfectly fine with me. Some of the families I work for now have invited me to many church functions. I graciously accept any invitation but I have never attended anything outside of work for any reason.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:39 PM
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Athiest here too. I often wondered whether people would notice that I didn't have much hanging on my walls. No JC, no crosses, etc.

I have had families ask if we prayed as a group before breakfast or lunch. I openly said, "The children that can talk are welcome to do whatever they are comfortable with but I do not initiate or invite children to repeat after me nor will I start a prayer."

They chose another provider and that is perfectly fine with me. Some of the families I work for now have invited me to many church functions. I graciously accept any invitation but I have never attended anything outside of work for any reason.
I've never had a prospective client ask me about religion or prayer at all. I did have some parents who were obviously very religious. I got one invitation to attend a church event. It had some kind of ticket to get in. I just said "thanks" and, of course, didn't go and it was never brought up again.

I had one little girl that was Christian but they didn't celebrate Halloween. I know I didn't have to but we just made harvest type crafts that weren't specifically for Halloween. No one knew the difference. No one objected to pumpkins and spiders.

Once I did let it slip that I was an atheist but the mom didn't care at all but you never know....

Laurel
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:40 PM
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Nevermind lol

Last edited by Willow; 05-15-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: definitely not worth it.....
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:46 PM
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Yes I do know.

And that's why I don't expect her to fully understand everything that goes into guiding a child into adulthood.


Thanks for your judgement about being cold blooded and mean though. I'm sure no one here would ever say the same about you so that's awesome!!!
what if someone was struggling with infertility?
or just recently lost a child or pregnancy?
I was not going to get involved in this thread until I read this.
I know you were mad but jeeez!
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:53 PM
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what if someone was struggling with infertility?
or just recently lost a child or pregnancy?
I was not going to get involved in this thread until I read this.
I know you were mad but jeeez!
Yeah, I don't get mad about silly stuff written on internet forums....

But she's said multiple times that she's young and unmarried. Not that that comment had anything to do with anything you or I wrote.

But way for pulling out more imaginary drama! You're so good at that!!!
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
Why would you expect more out of me?

I am not the playroom monitor.

I am a moderator, not the opinion police.

I often ignore many ignorant or uneducated posts simply to NOT add fuel to the fire.

The sister wives thread was closed due to the fact that it was started by a member of this forum with the SOLE intention of stirring the pot and creating unnecessary drama.

Also WHY a thread is closed, really isn't discussed openly among all the forum members as sometimes it really isn't any of anyone's business other than the moderators and Michael.

What gives you the impression that it is my job to make sure rumors aren't being spread? That is an odd comment.

The members of this forum are grown women who ALL have opinions. Where the word rumor came from, or the fact that I am suppose to do something about them is confusing.

If someone makes a comment that offends you, either report the post to any of the moderators Michael or use the red/yellow flags on the top right of the posting box.

This lets mods and admin know you are offended by something.

Other than that, you are on your own as far as whether you are insulted or offended by something someone posts. Either ignore, their comment, report it or say something to them.

I don't read every single post that is posted on the forum. I also know for a fact that the member who made the turtle comment was being sarcastic and wasn't being serious at all. I take that into consideration too.
How is saying Muslims kill turtles an opinion? That's offensive to both Muslims and animal lovers. I didn't say it was your job to prevent rumors but I get jumped on when I say something I think is a state rule and yet its okay to make false racist remarks? And she admitted that she likes to say things just to make people mad, its one thing to just wonder what people would think but that comment was just a little too far. and I have put them on my ignore list them that's why I am not even responding to them anymore.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:10 PM
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I am Muslim. And all of this is complete nonsense and exactly why I never make time for this form.

I intended to come here to return a favor to someone. Yes I didn't need to read this I could have ingnored it. But this really blew my mind.

What ever happened to good threads with good information. ??
Ugh who cares. It seems this form should be called debate.com.

Does not sound like anything to do with care at all.

But what do I know?????
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:12 PM
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WOW!!!!



Well since all of the silliness has already been added to this topic (and by the way, thank you for nap time entertainment ).....

As a parent, I just wanted to add that I personally would most likely enroll my child somewhere where the provider(s) have similar beliefs to us because children in daycare spend almost equivalent awake time in the daycare setting as they do at home. That's not to say that this woman would not be fine or even successful in what she does!

As a daycare provider, it sounds bad but I usually end up with children in my care whose parents either are more lax with religion or they are Christians. Not that I wouldn't enroll other children...it would add to the diversity! But I'm pretty sure prospective families are turned off by all the holidays I celebrate (which is essentially everything....with having the same routine everyday, I love making as many days as different as possible with celebrations of one kind or another!). I even try to add celebrations for different cultures, although they usually don't end up very big since I don't know enough about what they do.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:15 PM
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nm... not worth it

Last edited by Lyss; 05-15-2013 at 03:37 PM. Reason: done feeding the llama
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:19 PM
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How is saying Muslims kill turtles an opinion? That's offensive to both Muslims and animal lovers.

Then please report the post by using the red/yellow flags in the top right corner.

I didn't make a big deal out of what she said because quite frankly, I read it in context to the whole thread and KNEW she was simply being sarcastic.

It may very well be offensive to both Muslims and animal lovers (which I am one of those things) but rather than continue arguing and debating back and forth, I chose to walk away and move on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starburst View Post
I didn't say it was your job to prevent rumors but I get jumped on when I say something I think is a state rule and yet its okay to make false racist remarks?

You didn't say it was my job but you did say "Isn't she supposed to make sure that everyone is not spreading rumors? But it seems like she is just egging it on." to which I replied that no, I am not suppose to making sure that everyone is not spreading rumors. That isn't my responsibility. We are all grown ups here.

I am also NOT egging it on..... I am simply choosing to not make an argument about everything others think, say and feel. I am being an adult

As for you getting jumped on for making statements about what is and isn't a state rule in California....I had nothing to do with that thread. I don't live in California and don't know anything about California state rules....not sure what that part has to do with me.

If you are thinking that I should have stepped in when you "got jumped on" (your words), then you should have PM'ed me or reported those posters you felt "jumped on" you.

fwiw~ You didn't say you "think" it was a rule, you said it as if it were factual and true. Whether it was or wasn't is neither here nor there, just that the person who disagreed with you thought differently....I wouldn't really classify that as being "jumped on" though.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:45 PM
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fwiw~ You didn't say you "think" it was a rule, you said it as if it were factual and true. Whether it was or wasn't is neither here nor there, just that the person who disagreed with you thought differently....I wouldn't really classify that as being "jumped on" though.
At the time I didn't say "I think this is a rule" because I thought it was a rule. If I thought it was a legal rule, why would I need to say "I think its a rule" if I thought it was a fact? Would you say "I think its against the law to drink and drive"? No, you would just say "Drinking and driving is illegal" KWIM?

And yes I do feel I was being jumped on to an extent because there was comments that had nothing to do with the main point where someone was just trying to find something unimportant to make an issues out of (as stated in my previous post on this thread).

But I guess people will believe what they want to believe. Sometimes I just feel there is a favoritism where certain members cannot do anything wrong and they get special treatment or consideration.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:01 PM
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At the time I didn't say "I think this is a rule" because I thought it was a rule. If I thought it was a legal rule, why would I need to say "I think its a rule" if I thought it was a fact? Would you say "I think its against the law to drink and drive"? No, you would just say "Drinking and driving is illegal" KWIM?

And yes I do feel I was being jumped on to an extent because there was comments that had nothing to do with the main point where someone was just trying to find something unimportant to make an issues out of (as stated in my previous post on this thread)..
...again, this is not my argument. I had no dog in that fight.

I am sorry you felt jumped on. I am not really sure what I am suppose to do about that though. fwiw, I AM sorry but I didn't "jump" all over you.

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But I guess people will believe what they want to believe. Sometimes I just feel there is a favoritism where certain members cannot do anything wrong and they get special treatment or consideration.
Yes, you are right....some people will continue to believe what they believe and no amount of explanation or added information will change their minds. and I cannot change that.

You are also probably very correct in feeling that some posters get special treatment verses others but there is a pretty good reason for that.

It's called reputation.

Some members have been on this board for years. They have contributed their 2 cents, their opinions, thoughts and comments for many years.
They have formed relationships with others and have connected with others through common interests and personality types.

They have built a reputation among the members of the board. Often times one they deserve and shouldn't feel ashamed or embarrassed about.

If you plan on hanging around here for a long time, you will see how that happens.
Long term members get respect for the time and effort they have put into building this forum into what it is.

New members have to work at it a bit more. Is that fair? I don't know but most things in life work the same way.

Everyone starts somewhere and where they wish to go or end up is completely up to them. If they want to stick around here and continue commenting, supporting and connecting to others, they WILL earn respect and a little more lea way compared to newbies simply because they have earned it.

The 11,000+ posts I have made on this forum aren't just me making off handed remarks and snarky comments () but are representative of my time spent here contributing, supporting and helping other members on this board for the last 2.5 years.

So yes, some members probably DO get by with a little more than others but that is just the way it works sometimes.....

I hope that makes sense as I really don't know how else to explain it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:54 PM
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I am at a public computer right now so I don't feel like signing in because I am going to leave in a minute but I understand that overtime people earn a certain reputation, but I don't think that should exclude them from the rules of the forum.

And because I am not signed in I can see youretoolounds and willows comment:
Youretooloud: I don't have anything against jokes but its about comments that sound like general assumptions about a group of people I had a problem with. I was born in 1991 and never heard of an event you are discribing and maybe I did take it out of context because I wasn't aware of that happening but you didn't say anything about a praticular group of people who happened to be muslims it was: "I heard Muslims kill turtles and make them repeat satanic chants" like all muslims do that. If it was one particular group that is one thing but if your outing a whole entire religion like that that I have an issue with. That comes off as stereotyping to me. And when I said that comment about I would want to take a kid to a place I heard a teacher talking like that I meant when they are talking badly about a group of people based on random things that not all people in that group do- I wouldn't want a kid to have a preconsived notion on any group of people based on something they heard that may or may not be true. Its like saying "I hear white people are cannibals" because they saw on the news someone who was a cannibal and they happened to be white, KWIM?

And Willow just because I am not currently married (for the record my bf and I are waiting until we both finish college to get married) and don't have kids doesn't mean I am not entitled to my own opinions about how I would ideally raise my future kids- I understand that the world is not perfect and not everything goes according to plan but there are some things that I would be able to control. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I want to make sure I get my schooling done and start my business before I have kids because I know what its like to grow up in a broke family where no one has their stuff together. So your whole point about not juding just completely lost any credibility in my eyes because it seems like you always judge me because I do not have kids- yes I may not no what its like to be a parent of a child but I know what its like to be the kid that has to grow up too fast and take care of a younger sibling so they can have a chance to be a kid and sometimes having to act like my own mother's parent. Not everyone who has kids is responsible and not everyone who doesn't have kids is irresponsible.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:45 PM
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Youretooloud: I was born in 1991 and never heard of an event you are discribing and maybe I did take it out of context because I wasn't aware of that happening but you didn't say anything about a praticular group of people who happened to be muslims it was: "I heard Muslims kill turtles and make them repeat satanic chants" like all muslims do that. If it was one particular group that is one thing but if your outing a whole entire religion like that that I have an issue with. That comes off as stereotyping to me.
O.K... I agree. You are WAY too young to know about the 80s daycare nightmare. I highly doubt they even teach that in college. I DID write that comment assuming everybody in the entire world is my age. So, I completely apologize for thinking people would remember it or know about it.

BUT, it never, ever had anything at all to do with the Muslim faith. I was being sarcastic because someone else said "So, you are saying Muslims are Satan worshipers?" Which, obviously, I know they are not. So, I was being facetious when I said "We are just one horror story away from calling them Evil". (or something to that effect)

As I said in my first response up there, almost my entire group of families is Muslim. A large majority of my town is Muslim. There is a huge Mosque on the hill near my house. It's gold and shiny...can't miss it. I know, like and respect all of my Muslim neighbors. I do not think they are evil, or worship Satan.

But, I did unfairly get ugly at you, not realizing your age, and assuming you would understand something that happened when your parents were probably barely out of high school.

FYI, the McMartin trials, and others like it are one reason some daycare centers prefer not to hire men, and why we can't wipe kid's bottoms without being afraid of how it will look to someone else. It's why a lot of privately owned daycare centers closed their doors, or sold to larger chain daycares.

It was at the time, the longest, most expensive trial in America's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:27 PM
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That's great! Someday if or when you finally have a child you sure will be able to make those sorts of decisions!!!

Just like any other parent does regarding things like the philosophies, beliefs and core values of the people they choose to leave their children in the care of!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbust View Post
And Willow just because I am not currently married (for the record my bf and I are waiting until we both finish college to get married) and don't have kids doesn't mean I am not entitled to my own opinions about how I would ideally raise my future kids- I understand that the world is not perfect and not everything goes according to plan but there are some things that I would be able to control. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I want to make sure I get my schooling done and start my business before I have kids because I know what its like to grow up in a broke family where no one has their stuff together. So your whole point about not juding just completely lost any credibility in my eyes because it seems like you always judge me because I do not have kids- yes I may not no what its like to be a parent of a child but I know what its like to be the kid that has to grow up too fast and take care of a younger sibling so they can have a chance to be a kid and sometimes having to act like my own mother's parent. Not everyone who has kids is responsible and not everyone who doesn't have kids is irresponsible.
Holy bananas, I see nothing judging your personal situation (upbringing, education, economical status, marital status) or that you were irresponsible.

Willow made a comment about why she wouldn't place her kids in OP situation and it turned into her being a bigot and comparing Muslims to Satanists.

What I read from her comment quoted above was that you can use your beliefs and ideas to choose what things you want to expose your children too down the line when you have them, just as she posted about her choice for her kids. Its your right, just as it is her right to decided what she wants for her kids. Each family make their own choices.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:20 PM
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I am at a public computer right now so I don't feel like signing in because I am going to leave in a minute but I understand that overtime people earn a certain reputation, but I don't think that should exclude them from the rules of the forum.
I hear and understand what you are saying but no one has broken any forum rules that I am aware of.

The "special treatment I was talking about was a wider acceptance and deeper understanding of each other's thoughts, opinions, comments, personalities and quirks.

When someone like Yourtooloud for example posts a single sentence, those of us who know her are more apt to understand what her point or meaning was where as you could post the same sentence and I'd have no clue in what conrtext you meant it because I don't know if you are a serious person who gets offended easily or if you are a light hearted person that is quick to let things roll off your back.

That's the only "special" I know of that some members get away with.

If you feel that anyone has out right broken a forum rule, then report it to one of the mods, Michael or use the red/yellow flags. Nothing can get addressed or fixed if you dont follow the forum rules yourself and report things according to those rules.
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  #87  
Old 05-16-2013, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Willow View Post
Of course. That's exactly what I am saying because I am THAT level of stupid.

I hate everyone who is not Christian even though I don't adhere to those beliefs myself......I am completely convinced everyone else worships the devil but me
This just made me laugh, literally, out loud.
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  #88  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dave4him View Post
Children are going to be more influenced by how you act and live then what you say and tell them.
I don't know about this-

I think they both go hand and hand or the opposite ways.

Have mixed feelings on this one and can't seem to articulate my point either at this point.
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  #89  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dave4him View Post
I take no offense when people discover I am not a woman running my daycare Though I am sure I would have more kids by now if I were.
I don't think you being a male has much to do with how many kids you have or don't have. I have seen many males that run a wonderful program and are very successful at it and sought out after. Mary Applebaum's son is one of them.

I think if you have issues getting kids it is your lack of experience/confidence and maybe your program and daycare space that is not attracting clients. I am guessing this but I don't think it has as much to do with you being a male.

Dave you know I say this with heart and not tone-
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  #90  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Starburst View Post
I read it all. I just find it interesting that she was the one saying: "You are comparing apple's to green beans..." and then jumped to this. How do you jump from Muslims to Satanists (especially after a comment like that)? How would you know someone is a Satanist? It's not always that obvious because not all of them have horns, wear dark robes, and have pentagrams drawn on their living room floors. But if someone wore a cross or a hijab its easier to know what their faith is.

Willow has done the same exact thing to me, I just mentioned aspirin once in a HYPOTHETICAL situation as an example of needing parental permission to give medication to a child (the sunscreen thread) and she went on about it saying "you should never give aspirin to a child" or "why did you mention aspirin? why not Tylenol?" on that post and once it was settled she found something else I said to start up another issue with. And BC you did the same thing to me on the thread about providers on prescription pills when you asked me "are you saying that people in wheelchairs cannot be good providers?" when I was talking about my main issue being that the provider had chronic back problems and I was trying to make a point that overtime caring for young children will hurt your back even more. She did not say that she was in a wheelchair, and not everyone in wheelchairs have back problems-that's a stereotype. How come it's okay for you guys to do that but not me? I just want to make sure you are being clear and that I am not misinterpreting your comments.

and yourtooloud I am not trying to start an "Absurd" argument; as Willow said to me once on here "you have to be careful what you say on here, people take things you say as life or death" (same sunscreen thread). Don't people take religion as life or death? I am not trying to start up drama, I just want to know what she meant by her comment. And why should I have to hide as an unregistered guest when I am just speaking my mind? I am not just someone who is bored and decided to start a fake thread (or trolling) just to get a rise out of people. Am I not entitled to my own opinions? If I want to leave myself open for ridicule by standing up for something then that is my choice. Willow is sharing her opinions I am just trying to make sure I fully understand the point she is making.
If your going to stand up and open yourself up for ridicule then be ready to take the heat. That is how society works. Take the heat with out bashing and be able to say your piece with out having to stir up a pot that causes all of this....... own it and move on and be nice along the way
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  #91  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by youretooloud View Post
I was being sarcastic because this once normal thread had taken a ridiculous turn.

I also remember the Asprin comment, and thought that was stupid. I say that all the time.

Someone said something dumb to me the other day. I can't remember what it was, but it was something along the lines of the asprin comment.

Honestly, some of the things that get posted here are hilariously absurd. "Liability" is the most popular word here. I think "OMFG" so many times on this board, yet I can't look away. It's always so bizzarre. And, yes, I occasionally purposely fan the flames because it's so darn easy. People here are the most literal group I have ever seen. "But, you said you shook him....you should never shake a baby, it could cause death". I think "Seriously?"
I agree with you up until the baby comment. Many people don't know NOT to shake a baby- with new people coming and going on the boards I don't find that correcting that right away is being overboard and if it is, oh well. I would rather have a baby still living here then gone because of a statement someone made in passing that got took the wrong way. You had me until that.......
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