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Old 08-12-2010, 01:01 PM
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Default Debate About Higher Education

Carrying this over from another thread in the parent forum, so as not to derail that parent's thread:

I wanted to leave this alone, but it's really bugging me. Why is it NOT okay for a provider to mention having an education? I have never seen anyone here say that they are better than anyone else because they do have an education, unless you consider a provider mentioning HOW having an education has HELPED THEM or made it possible for them to make IMPROVEMENTS in THEIR program saying they are "better" than another provider.

I could understand it NOT being okay to bring it up if it's in the context of being nasty and mean spirited to another provider with less education, but I have never seen it presented that way here.

I worked hard to earn my degree, I am proud of it and I am not NOT going to mention it because it may make someone else feel inferior - that's the problem of the person who has chosen, for whatever reason, not to pursue higher education, whether it be because they do not think a "piece of paper" is important, or they just don't care.

So, I am curious, what is your stance on Child Care Professionals working towards and earning their degree in ECE? Do you think it could be a valuable tool, and why or why not? Do you think that providers who DO have or are working towards a degree are wasting their time and that only experience matters? TIA for your feedback!
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:21 PM
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I think that if you look at it in any field, not just daycare it makes a difference.

For example...
I work for a company as an accounts receivable specialist...along with closing month end. Did I go to college for this??? NO, I worked my way up and as a result have many years experience.
Do I make as much as someone that would have this same position with a degree?? NO. It's just seems to be a standard in today's world. People are willing to pay more for a degree.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:23 PM
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I guess I should add...

Would it offend me if someone said they had a degree in the same field as I work in??? NO, I would congratulate them because I know it would be hard work!!

Is it frustrating when we have hired someone with a degree and I spend a lot of time training them and don't get the credit for it??? YES!!!
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:40 PM
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Thank you. I agree with you
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:43 PM
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Crystal, I'll answer as a parent....

I would appreciate my child having a teacher that has taken the measures to obtain a higher education. In fact, I appreciate anyone who takes their time to advance themselves with ongoing education and I think they should be rewarded for their time, dedication, and work. Why so you ask? Because while a higher education may not be necessary to perform most jobs, it shows that a person has gone an extra step and actually worked towards learning more about their chosen field (presumably prior to jumping into it) rather than "on the job training" (equates to trial and error). For me, obtaining a degree shows that a person is interested in learning all facets of childcare rather than the basics that any human that has been around children could pick up on. Obtaining a college education shows me that a person is driven, teachable, sets goals for themselves and consequently will have expectations for children in their care, dedicated and open to new ideas which may mean better care for my child. I'm not saying that spending 2-4+ years in school means that a person walks out as an expert. Certainly education and experience would be the best combo.

This is a good question: throughout the US, how many states require their primary school educators to hold a degree? I haven't researched but I'd like to know and will look into it. If we're expecting our children's educators to hold degrees, why wouldn't we want the same for when they are infants/toddlers?

Here's my theory on people who have experience and no education: first, let me place a disclaimer: my following statement is not my experience with childcare providers since I do not work in childcare, but rather my experience as a professional in finance. Based on MY OWN experience with people who have countless years in a field but no education, those people tend to believe and outwardly exude that they know everything there is to know about their profession over anybody else. In my experience, these types of people also often times make jest at someone who has a degree.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:49 PM
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Aya, thank you for a thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:00 PM
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My answer as a daycare provider without a degree............

I havent read the other debate, But I feel if you have a degree, Tell everyone, I do not have a degree, But have been looking into taking classes here and there, Just hard right now, with 2 little ones of my own, And I just havent researched enough, Obviously I do as much training as I can every year, But were I to have a degree in ECE, I would never keep it quiet, If I work hard for something that benefits my job, I will brag about it! Who cares if you have a one up on other providers, I personally would not be made insecure as a provider, I have a great program, I do preschool curriculum, And have a full house, and love my kids, and my parents love me..........Now do I think someone with a degree will be better than someone without, No I don't , I think its a huge benefit, But I think without a degree you can be just as good with children, I do believe the best education in children, Is raising some of your own, cause some things you just cant be taught, But If I do ever get a degree, which I would love to, It will for sure be one of the first things I mention when I get phone calls, And parents will be impressed, were I looking for daycare, hearing a degree, would make me more excited at first, But Doesnt mean I'll like the person, or the house................I say yell to the world your degree, good for you, you should be proud of it, Its a great tool in your field!
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
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I have earned my AA in Early Childhood and am now (starting next week) beginning online classes to work toward my BA in Early Childhood. It is not a necessary step to do my job...but just something I want to complete. I think degrees can be overrated. But I have learned a lot from getting my AA and can only expect that the next 2 years of upper division classes will add to my knowledge and professionalism.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:35 PM
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I went to college, got an AA (in electronics). With that degree I got hired on at one of (if not the leading) microchip manufacturer in the world. Intel Corp. Did I need my degree to get that job? Yes and No. Intel wouldn't have looked twice at me without it. Also, it was through school that I heard about the hiring team coming to Minnesota. HOWEVER, I rarely, if ever, used my degree in my day to day work. Was I proud, yes and no. Single mom, put myself through college (without student loans, but with help of National Guard) and landed one heck of a job, so yeah for me! To my friends and family in Minnesota it sounded very exciting. To the people in Oregon who I worked with or lived near, eh, big deal, just another Intel employee. (There are MANY!!)

Now, I'm a stay at home mother of three, doing daycare in my home, back in Minnesota. I have that AA in electronics. I don't have a degree in EC. Right now I don't see it making a big difference with my daycare. I do take continuing ed classes every year, but not enough for a degree. Where I live it's considered a higher poverty rate. I'm on the higher paid food program tier based on my location and school info. Parents in my area don't seem to care about the education a provider has. They want their kids to be happy, stay out of trouble, have fun, and most importantly be safe. I think some day I'd like to get a CDA or EC degree, but that's more for me than for the kids. I won't be able to charge more (and actually expect to get it) if I have higher education, at least not the way things look now.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:43 PM
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I have a Masters Degree in an unrelated field (Sports/Recreation) but I do mention it in my ads because a lot of the courses did directly relate to what I'm doing now and I think for SOME people it speaks to my character (I am hard working and put a lot of effort, work and dedication into my schooling). I would definitely not consider myself better than anyone else and putting it in my ad is just like adding "I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I taught preschool...I have a higher ed degree".
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by originalkat View Post
I have earned my AA in Early Childhood and am now (starting next week) beginning online classes to work toward my BA in Early Childhood. It is not a necessary step to do my job...but just something I want to complete. I think degrees can be overrated. But I have learned a lot from getting my AA and can only expect that the next 2 years of upper division classes will add to my knowledge and professionalism.
Does anyone know the current books they're using in college courses and authors or ISBNs? I would love to purchase these on ebay or amazon and just read them at my own time, but it is difficult to guess what they are using in college when I am not a student anymore. THANKS
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:35 AM
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Crystal, I'll answer as a parent....

I would appreciate my child having a teacher that has taken the measures to obtain a higher education. In fact, I appreciate anyone who takes their time to advance themselves with ongoing education and I think they should be rewarded for their time, dedication, and work. Why so you ask? Because while a higher education may not be necessary to perform most jobs, it shows that a person has gone an extra step and actually worked towards learning more about their chosen field (presumably prior to jumping into it) rather than "on the job training" (equates to trial and error). For me, obtaining a degree shows that a person is interested in learning all facets of childcare rather than the basics that any human that has been around children could pick up on. Obtaining a college education shows me that a person is driven, teachable, sets goals for themselves and consequently will have expectations for children in their care, dedicated and open to new ideas which may mean better care for my child. I'm not saying that spending 2-4+ years in school means that a person walks out as an expert. Certainly education and experience would be the best combo.

This is a good question: throughout the US, how many states require their primary school educators to hold a degree? I haven't researched but I'd like to know and will look into it. If we're expecting our children's educators to hold degrees, why wouldn't we want the same for when they are infants/toddlers?

Here's my theory on people who have experience and no education: first, let me place a disclaimer: my following statement is not my experience with childcare providers since I do not work in childcare, but rather my experience as a professional in finance. Based on MY OWN experience with people who have countless years in a field but no education, those people tend to believe and outwardly exude that they know everything there is to know about their profession over anybody else. In my experience, these types of people also often times make jest at someone who has a degree.
I like your response and think this is a well-rounded answer. I do have a question though. How much of a difference does would it make to you (and others) if a person's degree is not related to the field in which they work?
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aya477 View Post
Crystal, I'll answer as a parent....

I would appreciate my child having a teacher that has taken the measures to obtain a higher education. In fact, I appreciate anyone who takes their time to advance themselves with ongoing education and I think they should be rewarded for their time, dedication, and work. Why so you ask? Because while a higher education may not be necessary to perform most jobs, it shows that a person has gone an extra step and actually worked towards learning more about their chosen field (presumably prior to jumping into it) rather than "on the job training" (equates to trial and error). For me, obtaining a degree shows that a person is interested in learning all facets of childcare rather than the basics that any human that has been around children could pick up on. Obtaining a college education shows me that a person is driven, teachable, sets goals for themselves and consequently will have expectations for children in their care, dedicated and open to new ideas which may mean better care for my child. I'm not saying that spending 2-4+ years in school means that a person walks out as an expert. Certainly education and experience would be the best combo.

This is a good question: throughout the US, how many states require their primary school educators to hold a degree? I haven't researched but I'd like to know and will look into it. If we're expecting our children's educators to hold degrees, why wouldn't we want the same for when they are infants/toddlers?

Here's my theory on people who have experience and no education: first, let me place a disclaimer: my following statement is not my experience with childcare providers since I do not work in childcare, but rather my experience as a professional in finance. Based on MY OWN experience with people who have countless years in a field but no education, those people tend to believe and outwardly exude that they know everything there is to know about their profession over anybody else. In my experience, these types of people also often times make jest at someone who has a degree.
Nice response. I've questioned before why the standards for providers are lower than the ones for teachers.it doesn't change anything for me since I already have an ec degree which I got for teaching, not daycare.most providers wouldn't take the time to get one n I don't blame them since its not required, but since the first 5 yrs are the most crucial, I don't see why the standards are lowered to the point that any 18 year old w a GED can do the job.yet to teach an 18 year old adult whose a senior in hs u need a 4 year degree.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:32 AM
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Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:48 AM
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I haven't read all responses yet, so I'm just commenting on OP's questions:

This is my take on it. I have a Master's in Human Development (for whatever that may or may not be worth ) and about 10 years of experience working with children and families in several different kinds of settings. I've also worked as an ECE trainer- some of my 'students' had formal education, others did not.

Those that have experience and not a lot of EC/CD education, I think that they learn on the job and they learn by using their common sense and reacting and then making adjustments based on what works best. They also may not have a lot of knowledge about child development or how children learn best.

For someone that has education, they have that child development knowledge before they start gaining experience (if that's the order in which they did it), so they go into their job understanding what's appropriate for what ages/developmental levels. They have knowledge in child development, in education theory, in parent relationships, among other things.

After I got my bachelor's degree and started working as a preschool teacher, i had no clue what I was doing in the classroom (I don't think I'm alone in this one). Sure, I understood child development, I understood 'classroom management', etc etc etc. But, to apply it is a whole different world. And I often used my common sense and just 'reacted' to situations as that was what felt natural to me. It took me quite a while before I began feeling comfortable (and confident enough) using my knowledge, especially in terms of dealing with difficult behaviors as I tend to feel frustrated quickly and my gut is to react frustrated, even though I know this is not always appropriate. But, it was because of the education that I received and the awesome mentors that I had, that I was able to step back from what I was doing and reflect on how best to work with children. I would not have soooo many tools at my disposal had I not received an education.

I don't understand how someone can think that education doesn't matter. I think that someone who says that is maybe reacting to a person or two that they met that had education before they got experience. Or they may be feeling defensive about not having received their education.

It's not an either/or situation---the BEST providers that I've known have both education and experience.

Katy
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:53 AM
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I like your response and think this is a well-rounded answer. I do have a question though. How much of a difference does would it make to you (and others) if a person's degree is not related to the field in which they work?
This question wasn't for me, hope you don't mind if I answer it anyways

I think that there are a lot of related degrees that give people a lot of knowledge to be able to effectively work with children (social work, rec, psychology, etc.). I think that a completely un-related degree, while it shows a person's drive for obtaining an education (which is a plus), doesn't really help them too much in the classroom. So as a parent, I probably would be less likely to send my child to someone who has an unrelated degree than to someone who has a related degree.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:24 AM
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I haven't had a chance to read all the previous posts, so I'm just answering the OP's question. I do have a degree, but not in ECE. I did consider it and would have pursued it if I stayed in daycare. As many of you know, I had to shut down due to a combination of financial hardship (trouble getting clients that pay according to their contract) and medical issues related to my twin pregnancy. However, my degree has helped me in this field. My degree is in criminal justice. I got the degree because it was the closest thing to pre-law at my university and I wanted to go to law school. During my education, I took a lot of courses in child development and planned to work in juvenile law and family law. I have always had a passion for children and families, especially protecting children during a divorce and keeping children from veering off course (into a life of crime). I did go to law school and complete just over 1/3 of it (33/90 credits). I was in my second year (out of 3 years) when I quit to be a mommy. However, my passion for children and families has never waivered. I just thought of being a daycare provider as a way to influence the children BEFORE the problems arise rather than AFTER they get into trouble when they are older. Since I had training in how different things influence a child's choice in the future, I thought I could help children at risk by providing a loveing environment for them while they are young.

However, my law school education has also helped me to construct a very good contract so I could avoid many of the pitfalls that new business owners face (daycare business and other businesses). I have never lost a court case when I have had to take someone to court. I'm not proud of that because I wish it never came down to that, but it happens when you run a business.

As for the actual care of the children, my experience comes from being from a huge family with a ton of cousins, second-cousins, nieces, nephew, etc. I have been watching and taking care of children for free for family (that's how my family does it - we don't charge for occasional babysitting) since I was 9 or 10 years old. It started with my mom present. As I got older, I started babysitting on my own. I had logged thousands and thousands of hours of hands-on experience prior to opening my own daycare (professionally) at age 33. So, I feel like I had a ton of experience plus some education to draw upon. And like I said, I intended to get an ECE. But I can't just say that it was to bolster my reputation as a provider. I love going to school and learning. I know, I'm wierd. But I love learning and growing. I do not always agree with the philosophies that are being taught, but that's when I take what I like and ignore the rest (when it comes to real life).

I did mention my education to prospective clients, but it was in a way where I was saying, I am doing this by choice, because I have a passion for children and helping them to become the best they can be and that I believe that the first 5 years are cruical to who they will become. I thought that they would appreciate knowing that I did not just fall into this or am doing this because I couldn't find something else. I wanted them to know that this was a choice I made based on my natural love for children. I would also remind them that there are many women (without the advanced education) out there that are doing it for the same reasons and that they should also be considered before making a decision.

It was never mentioned in an arrogant way. I would also tell people that I am very lucky to have the opportunity to do something I love, while being home with my child(ren). I think it's all in how you say it. However, the problem with forums like this and others, as well as any other typed or written form is that TONE can not be typed or written, so it is up to the reader to infer the tone, which can cause A LOT of problems and misunderstandings. I have made this mistake many times, so I try to comment on the tone I am using. But it still does not solve all the problems.

Finally, I don't see a problem in mentioning your education as long as it is in the context of "here's what I have learned" or "in case you were wondering". And for those of us with degrees (in ECE or other fields) need to remember, the degrees do not make us better, it just makes us a little more resourseful because we were exposed to a greater number of resources during our education. But for the truly dedicated, but degree-less person, that doesn't matter because they can find resources. And in this day and age, that piece of paper does not guarantee a job, clients, or higher pay. It helps. But it's not the guarantee that it used to be. So, it may make those of us with degrees, just more in debt (student loans). Right now I am torn on the education issue. Is it really worth it? It's a delicate balance between the cost and reward. Will the reward outweigh the cost of getting the education? In this economy, that's a tough question with no clear answers.
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Old 08-14-2010, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by QualiTcare View Post
Nice response. I've questioned before why the standards for providers are lower than the ones for teachers.it doesn't change anything for me since I already have an ec degree which I got for teaching, not daycare.most providers wouldn't take the time to get one n I don't blame them since its not required, but since the first 5 yrs are the most crucial, I don't see why the standards are lowered to the point that any 18 year old w a GED can do the job.yet to teach an 18 year old adult whose a senior in hs u need a 4 year degree.
The difference is, one position is child CARE, the other is child TEACHING.

What about the parents interacting with their own children? Why is it a daycare providers duty to teach and raise these kids?

Now, if you want a 'school-like' atmosphere, then by all means, seek one out and pay the extra fees to have your child in their care/teaching.

But, many parents are not in search of a Toddler University.

If you're going to raise the bar for providing daycare with the logic of "the first 5 yrs are the most crucial", maybe instead we should raise the bar on who is allowed to have kids. Cuz that's who the onus of responsibility should be placed on, not the person who provides care for a small fee.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:35 PM
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The difference is, one position is child CARE, the other is child TEACHING.

What about the parents interacting with their own children? Why is it a daycare providers duty to teach and raise these kids?

Now, if you want a 'school-like' atmosphere, then by all means, seek one out and pay the extra fees to have your child in their care/teaching.

But, many parents are not in search of a Toddler University.

If you're going to raise the bar for providing daycare with the logic of "the first 5 yrs are the most crucial", maybe instead we should raise the bar on who is allowed to have kids. Cuz that's who the onus of responsibility should be placed on, not the person who provides care for a small fee.
first of all, childcare fees are not normally SMALL by any means.

secondly, it's not a debate about parents teaching their children. if that were the case, we'd need no school at all because parents could just quit their jobs and everybody could stay home and teach their own kids. ask them how that's working out in africa.

lastly, i'd like to hear from ONE provider that doesn't feel like they are TEACHING the kids they "just" CARE for. in fact, most of the daycares i've experienced - the "providers" call themselves TEACHERS.

the first five years ARE the most crucial - that's a fact, not an opinion. but - i'm glad you at least realize there is a difference other than "just a piece of paper." most ppl who say providers don't need an education and/or they can do the same or better of a job as a person with an ECE degree seem to think it's a level playing field. if you want the same respect and notoriety, you should be held to the same standards.

Last edited by QualiTcare; 08-14-2010 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:15 AM
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first of all, childcare fees are not normally SMALL by any means.
Hour for hour, are they comparable to a private school tuition?

Nope.

You get what you pay for.

Quote:
secondly, it's not a debate about parents teaching their children. if that were the case, we'd need no school at all because parents could just quit their jobs and everybody could stay home and teach their own kids. ask them how that's working out in africa.

lastly, i'd like to hear from ONE provider that doesn't feel like they are TEACHING the kids they "just" CARE for. in fact, most of the daycares i've experienced - the "providers" call themselves TEACHERS.
True, but keep in mind, daycare providers aren't teaching calculus or chemistry, they're teaching manners, social behavior, colors, tie your shoes, don't poop on the rug, etc.

They say the first five years are the most important.....but they never say what's most important to teach in that time. IMHO, that is morality/right from wrong.

Quote:
the first five years ARE the most crucial - that's a fact, not an opinion. but - i'm glad you at least realize there is a difference other than "just a piece of paper." most ppl who say providers don't need an education and/or they can do the same or better of a job as a person with an ECE degree seem to think it's a level playing field. if you want the same respect and notoriety, you should be held to the same standards.
I'll be honest, I think degrees are highly over rated, especially by people who have a degree without having real world experience. They tend to discount/look down their noses on those who have been doing the task for years with great success, but because they don't have a slip of paper that says they parroted back the proper responses at the proper time in a special room, the 'educated' think they are automatically superior.

Just because a person has a degree doesn't mean they have a clue what they are doing.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:25 AM
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As a parent a nurse and a new provider:
I want my provider to show me that she is reading books about child development, activities ect. Taking local community classes about topics that relate. Just show me that you take an interest in what you are doing. I dont care how much the class cost or what school you took it from, hang it on your bulletin board, put it in your newsletter anything, be proud of the little things because parents do notice. That is my point of view.
As a nurse I have been able to fill spots faster than if I did not have the title; but as a nurse I worked with adults. The parents dont care because "nurse" means many things to them. I love that I am a nurse and feel proud of it, but I feel that it does not make me a better provider. I would much rather have lots of experience and my CDA. So I will be working twoards it slowly because I want to be the best provider I can!
I think its that drive and passion for what you do that makes you stand out and it you have it you will most likely be found taking class/events/readingbooks.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:36 AM
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Hour for hour, are they comparable to a private school tuition?

Nope.

You get what you pay for.



True, but keep in mind, daycare providers aren't teaching calculus or chemistry, they're teaching manners, social behavior, colors, tie your shoes, don't poop on the rug, etc.

They say the first five years are the most important.....but they never say what's most important to teach in that time. IMHO, that is morality/right from wrong.



I'll be honest, I think degrees are highly over rated, especially by people who have a degree without having real world experience. They tend to discount/look down their noses on those who have been doing the task for years with great success, but because they don't have a slip of paper that says they parroted back the proper responses at the proper time in a special room, the 'educated' think they are automatically superior.

Just because a person has a degree doesn't mean they have a clue what they are doing.
Interesting that you would automatically assume that people with degrees look down on others. I certainly don't do that....I use my degree to HELP other providers be better providers, and while doing so, am very open to learning new things from those that I mentor. I not only mentor new teachers/providers, but very experienced ones as well.....I am currently mentoring a Provider who has been in business for 18 years, I have only been in business for 13....but ya know what, SHE realizes that because of my education, that I do have some knowldege that she doesn't have and sought my help in improving the quality of her program.

I find it saddening that providers cannot simply be supportive of one another....while I realize there is competition in this business, the competition should be a local thing. Here on this forum, and any other forum, we should be encouraging each other to move forward in our careers, and supporting one another to be the best we can be.

I will also tell you, as a mentor teacher, I have had the opportunity to be part of a Nationwide discussion re. ECE. The day is coming when all providers, in the United States, will be required to have an education to run their programs.....now would be a good time to start working towards those degrees if you want to be in business in 5-10 years.

Really, though, you shouldn't over-generalize....while some providers with degrees MAY look down on those that don't, so do those with lots of experience towards those that are new to this profession.

I think experience is highly valuable, but I also think education is as well. Ideally we would all have both, but we all have to start somewhere. I started without an education and gained my education over the past 5 years....and while I am very successful in my business, I can say from experience that starting my business would have been alot easier if I had had the education first.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:47 PM
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Interesting that you would automatically assume that people with degrees look down on others. I certainly don't do that....I use my degree to HELP other providers be better providers, and while doing so, am very open to learning new things from those that I mentor. I not only mentor new teachers/providers, but very experienced ones as well.....I am currently mentoring a Provider who has been in business for 18 years, I have only been in business for 13....but ya know what, SHE realizes that because of my education, that I do have some knowldege that she doesn't have and sought my help in improving the quality of her program.

I find it saddening that providers cannot simply be supportive of one another....while I realize there is competition in this business, the competition should be a local thing. Here on this forum, and any other forum, we should be encouraging each other to move forward in our careers, and supporting one another to be the best we can be.

I will also tell you, as a mentor teacher, I have had the opportunity to be part of a Nationwide discussion re. ECE. The day is coming when all providers, in the United States, will be required to have an education to run their programs.....now would be a good time to start working towards those degrees if you want to be in business in 5-10 years.

Really, though, you shouldn't over-generalize....while some providers with degrees MAY look down on those that don't, so do those with lots of experience towards those that are new to this profession.

I think experience is highly valuable, but I also think education is as well. Ideally we would all have both, but we all have to start somewhere. I started without an education and gained my education over the past 5 years....and while I am very successful in my business, I can say from experience that starting my business would have been alot easier if I had had the education first.
I'm speaking from my experience about those with degrees (not only providers, but people in general) and their attitude. Not saying EVERYONE with a degree is that way, but either there sure seems to be a lot of them like that, or the few who are that way make so much racket they make up for the rest.

The day that we're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars so my wife can get a degree to change diapers and wipe runny noses for the current going rate for daycare is the day that I order a custom sleeper semi and we start running team together.

I can understand the need for a degree if you're putting your business forth and billing it as a "education center", but that's not what my wife does, she operates a family structured daycare.

Two very different operations, and two very different rate structures.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:17 PM
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first of all, childcare fees are not normally SMALL by any means.

I'd have to disagree with this one point. The going rate in my area for full time home childcare is about two dollars per hour, and parents complain about paying that. I've seen the range that providers on this site charge all over the country, and most are not much higher (some are lower!).
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:22 AM
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I'd have to disagree with this one point. The going rate in my area for full time home childcare is about two dollars per hour, and parents complain about paying that. I've seen the range that providers on this site charge all over the country, and most are not much higher (some are lower!).
I would love to get $2 per hour per child. Doesn't happen here.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:42 AM
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The day that we're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars so my wife can get a degree to change diapers and wipe runny noses for the current going rate for daycare is the day that I order a custom sleeper semi and we start running team together.

that is the issue i am having. my state is changing the regs all around, and want home daycare providers to have degrees. i understand their point, but come on. we are struggling in this economy now....how can they expect me to pay hundreds of $$ a month in student loans, when we are just getting by as it is. i'm a home daycare. i'm not a teacher in an educational learning center. (and even there, the teachers only get $9 an hour) if the state expects us to get degrees, they should be offering some incentive, rebates, grants, something. but do they? of course not. i would LOVE to get a degree, i simply cant afford it.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:16 AM
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melskids...

You can get a degree without it costing you anything, if you qualify for Pell Grants and board of governor fee waiver. Student loans are more for those who cannot get the pell grant, and also need help paying for living exenses while they go to school. AND, if you do take out student loans, you do not pay it back until 6 months after you graduate, AND your payment is based on your income. If you would like more information about how to get the grant, please PM me.

As I said in previous post....there is a nationwide momentum right now for all providers to be required to have an education....it IS going to happen....it WILL be awhile, but why not start preparing for it now, rather than wait and then not be able to stay in business? THAT would be way more costly than going to school.

Last edited by Crystal; 09-17-2010 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:20 AM
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The day that we're going to spend tens of thousands of dollars so my wife can get a degree to change diapers and wipe runny noses for the current going rate for daycare is the day that I order a custom sleeper semi and we start running team together.
WOW! Do you really believe that your wife's responsibility to the children she cares for stops at changing diapers and wiping noses? I would hope that most providers take more responsibility than that and would like to think that they feel they are contributing to the overall development of the whole child and assisting them in developing the skills necessary to grow up socially responsible and contributing memebrs of society. In order to do so, there needs to be a deep understanding of the development of children and developmentally appropriate practices.

Really, you should give your wife more credit than that.

And to your wife who I know is a member here, please do not be offended by my response, I DO give you more credit than that, I have read your posts and it is clear that you care deeply about the children you work with.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:23 AM
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I'd have to disagree with this one point. The going rate in my area for full time home childcare is about two dollars per hour, and parents complain about paying that. I've seen the range that providers on this site charge all over the country, and most are not much higher (some are lower!).
But we do not care for ONE child. Say $2 per hour PER child, 5 children is $10 per hour, 10 children is $20 per hour. This isn't a piece work job, it's a group factor. Sure, if you were caring for ONE child, it wouldn't be worth it at $2 per hour, and you wouldn't charge that.....geez, even my daughter who babysits charges $10 per hour.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:01 AM
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But we do not care for ONE child. Say $2 per hour PER child, 5 children is $10 per hour, 10 children is $20 per hour. This isn't a piece work job, it's a group factor. Sure, if you were caring for ONE child, it wouldn't be worth it at $2 per hour, and you wouldn't charge that.....geez, even my daughter who babysits charges $10 per hour.
But let's look at this for a moment at the $2 per hour. Sure, if you have 10 daycare children AT THE SAME TIME, it does become $20 per hour. But that is NOT the reality. Here in MI, we can only have 6 children at any one time AND our own children count toward that. So, when I only had my DD, I could only have 5 DC kids at any one time. That would be $10 per hour. Ok, still good money. However, no matter what I tried, I couldn't find the 8am - 5pm clients. I had varying amounts of kids (1-5 DC kids) between the hours of 7am - 11pm. That's 16 hour days * 5 days a week = 80 hours per week. Even with 5 kids @ $150 per week, that comes to $750 per week. Now divide that by the 80 hours and I was making $9.37 per hour. Still pretty decent.

However, that still was not the whole picture. Some of those were PT spots, so they were not paying the full amount. I had 2 FT M-F 7:30am - 4:30pm. One that was 2-3 evening per week (PT). One that was FT but the times were 10:30am - 9pm (days/afternoon crossover). One was PT 2-4 days per week. So when I pieced together the FT and PT, I couldn't take on more clients, but was only making $500 per week to work 80 hours per week or $6.25 per hour. And that was the fullest I ever was and it lasted for only 2 months!

Technically, in 2009, I got stiffed out of over $5K. Then, after deductions (the cost of actually doing business, cleaning products, ink, paper, toys, craft supplies, paying for the increase in utilities for the extra water and electricity used to operate the business, etc.), I made half of THAT because 1/2 of every dollar I earned went right back into the daycare! Then I had to pay taxes on that. I worked approximately 3000 hours that year. So after taxes and deductions (expenses), I grossed $6.50 per hour, but netted $2.50! Neither one is even close to minimum wage!

So, NO, it does not add up to $20 per hour! We are darn lucky if we ACTUALLY get $10 per hour when we add up all the children. But most of us are earning less than minimum wage (even before taxes) even though we are working more hours and get fewer breaks than people who work outside the home. Before you ASSUME the "wealth" of others, get the facts, look at tax returns, and realize that you do not know everything - sometimes what you "know" is merely an assumption.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:20 PM
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Professionalmom....let's start by saying, I never claimed to "KNOW EVERYTHING" my goodness, what is this, high school?

So, you're right, YOU didn't earn $2 per hour. If you try to get clientele and run an 8-5 business, it's not going to happen. Those are the hours parents are generally at work....they need care from minimum of 7-6, generally. So, you ended up going for the more varied hours and would have only a few children at a time, working around the clock, so it doesn't add up to $2-3 per hour. BUT, most providers do have set hours, where they have the whole group together at one time, so THEY do and are making more than $2 per hour. I suppose I could have broken it down, that we don't all have 10 kids, but I was just generalizing, as most of us have somewhere between 6-14 kids...I have 14. So, I was kinda averaging it out, to make it simple....although you see I did also say 5 kids.... never said everyone has 10 kids or everyone makes $20 per hour.

Also,I have to say, anybody who runs a childcare program needs to treat it as any other business. You set up a budget....if you aren't making enough money to purchase supplies, etc. you change your budget and buy what the program can afford....just as with a household budget....you don't buy new markers and paint if you cannot afford them. Why run your business into the gorund and end up losing money simply to purchase supplies that we can live without.

One request, if you want to COMPLETELY derail a thread that has a legitimite discussion occurring, please start a new thread. This thread was about higher education.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:06 PM
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Professionalmom....let's start by saying, I never claimed to "KNOW EVERYTHING" my goodness, what is this, high school?

So, you're right, YOU didn't earn $2 per hour. If you try to get clientele and run an 8-5 business, it's not going to happen. Those are the hours parents are generally at work....they need care from minimum of 7-6, generally. So, you ended up going for the more varied hours and would have only a few children at a time, working around the clock, so it doesn't add up to $2-3 per hour. BUT, most providers do have set hours, where they have the whole group together at one time, so THEY do and are making more than $2 per hour. I suppose I could have broken it down, that we don't all have 10 kids, but I was just generalizing, as most of us have somewhere between 6-14 kids...I have 14. So, I was kinda averaging it out, to make it simple....although you see I did also say 5 kids.... never said everyone has 10 kids or everyone makes $20 per hour.

Also,I have to say, anybody who runs a childcare program needs to treat it as any other business. You set up a budget....if you aren't making enough money to purchase supplies, etc. you change your budget and buy what the program can afford....just as with a household budget....you don't buy new markers and paint if you cannot afford them. Why run your business into the gorund and end up losing money simply to purchase supplies that we can live without.

One request, if you want to COMPLETELY derail a thread that has a legitimite discussion occurring, please start a new thread. This thread was about higher education.
First, I did not derail this thread, if that was what you were saying. If it wasn't directed at me, then I apologize.

Second, I did not mean YOU were acting like YOU know everything. It was a generalization of people who assume that a provider makes $2 per hour for $6 kids and that equals out to $12 per hour and then don't seem to understand why daycare providers claim that they are so underpaid.

Sure, you may have 14 kids. But do you have an assistant? If so, then you are operating at a ratio of 7 kids per adult and you are not pocketing the amount from all 14 kids because you have an employee to pay our of those earnings. If you are watching 14 kids all by yourself, then that's another story because in every jurisdiction I have heard about, that is way over the legal ratio. But I doubt it's just you because I doubt you'd go over state law like that.

Actually, I was not being irresponsible with my budget. I had supplies like paper, ink, etc. But I also had expenses like utilities. Now I know some people will jump on my case saying, "deducting part of your utilities is a bonus of this job". If I worked out of the home, no one would be there to turn on lights, flush the toilet, use water to wash hands, etc. for at least 9 hours each day. But with the daycare, our utility bills went up significantly. Why? Because the house was "in use". So, yes, I have every right to deduct that added expense from my income, as well as other items. There is a "cost to doing business". I cut corners where ever possible. I was NEVER irresponsible in my budgeting or spending. But I still lost a big chunk to "running the business", even though I am a pro at squeezing a penny until it bleeds.

As for the hours I kept, I tried to find regular day clients that were M-F. But with the economy, I would have only had 3 kids (with 1 or 2 of them PT). I had to allow for more hours. It wasn't like I had 1 kid for 4 hours, then another. Many of the schedules overlapped, but some were midday kids, not really days or evenings. So I couldn't even do a first shift and a second shift. Granted there are many providers that do have 4-6 kids at one time and only work 50 hours a week. But, with the economy the way it is right now, many providers, especially in MI have had to extend their hours and STILL do not have a full rooster!

So, it's easy to make it "look" like easy money doing daycare (on paper at least). But the reality of it is not so cut and dry. And it's not the same for everyone (5 DC kids all on the same M-F 7am - 5pm schedule). That's not the case for every provider. If it were then I would agree with what you said about it being more than $2 per hour.

What I took offense with was a provider making it sound like being a provider is an easy way to make a really great income when, in most cases, that is NOT the case. If it is for you, then great! Good for you.

Finally, I was not personally attacking you. I was just explaining that the math YOU provided was not the entire picture. Like you said, not all providers have 10 kids. Most state regulations actually limit it to 6-8 kids per adult. So you were exaggerating. Then you made the assumption that the kids were all there for basically the same amount of time, days, and hours. Then you failed to take "business expenses" into account, which is something employees in other businesses do NOT have to pay for (the corporation does). So, it's not like your get $2 per hour per kid in your pocket. But that's how you made it sound.
  #33  
Old 09-22-2010, 06:48 AM
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But we do not care for ONE child. Say $2 per hour PER child, 5 children is $10 per hour, 10 children is $20 per hour. This isn't a piece work job, it's a group factor. Sure, if you were caring for ONE child, it wouldn't be worth it at $2 per hour, and you wouldn't charge that.....geez, even my daughter who babysits charges $10 per hour.
Derailed.

Anyway, as a provider with a degree, I find that my experience plays a stronger role in my success as a provider, and the fact that I have education allows me to legally keep my job as a director. That's it and that's that.
I've learned more researching things on my own and asking comrades in the field (like on this site) and by being a people person and communicating with parents, than I did in the "Child, Family, Community' class and the 'Children in a Multicultural Setting' class that are core requirements for a basic AA degree.
In all seriousness, I felt that a lot of those classes were full of obvious common sense. I met a lot of fellow care providers there, though, and have lifelong friendships from that school. I guess it was worth the time and expense for those reasons.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:16 AM
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Derailed.

Anyway, as a provider with a degree, I find that my experience plays a stronger role in my success as a provider, and the fact that I have education allows me to legally keep my job as a director. That's it and that's that.
I've learned more researching things on my own and asking comrades in the field (like on this site) and by being a people person and communicating with parents, than I did in the "Child, Family, Community' class and the 'Children in a Multicultural Setting' class that are core requirements for a basic AA degree.
In all seriousness, I felt that a lot of those classes were full of obvious common sense. I met a lot of fellow care providers there, though, and have lifelong friendships from that school. I guess it was worth the time and expense for those reasons.
Get your point on the derail, however I did not start the derail and I did attempt to keep it short....not go into a long, drawn out story that totally went off the original topic. Perhaps from now on I'll simply move the orginal derail to a new thread and start a new conversation on that new topic-then we can have two interesting and highly debatable topics to discuss


I agree that some of the courses that are required for an AA are basic common sense, but there are many, many things I learned that relate to the appropriate development of children, as well as to developmentally appropriate practices related to environment and "curriculum" that I NEVER could have gained through experience alone. I personally value BOTH education and experience, I have both. But I do know that it would have been much easier for me starting out had I first obtained some basic education about DAP and Child Developmet, aside from my brief experience with my own children before I started my business.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:40 PM
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melskids...

You can get a degree without it costing you anything, if you qualify for Pell Grants and board of governor fee waiver. Student loans are more for those who cannot get the pell grant, and also need help paying for living exenses while they go to school. AND, if you do take out student loans, you do not pay it back until 6 months after you graduate, AND your payment is based on your income. If you would like more information about how to get the grant, please PM me.

As I said in previous post....there is a nationwide momentum right now for all providers to be required to have an education....it IS going to happen....it WILL be awhile, but why not start preparing for it now, rather than wait and then not be able to stay in business? THAT would be way more costly than going to school.
Let's talk about this in reality-even if you get a grant or a freebie, you're still paying for it. That money doesn't appear by magic. It comes from taxes that you and I pay (or debt the gov't goes into, which you and I will have to repay).

And if you get a grant, then you still have to either take night classes or close down your business (lost revenue) or hire someone to cover for you (add'l expense), then travel, your time, books, parking, etc.

And you have to ask yourself....how will this increase my revenue? Will I be able to command higher fees with this degree?



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WOW! Do you really believe that your wife's responsibility to the children she cares for stops at changing diapers and wiping noses? I would hope that most providers take more responsibility than that and would like to think that they feel they are contributing to the overall development of the whole child and assisting them in developing the skills necessary to grow up socially responsible and contributing memebrs of society. In order to do so, there needs to be a deep understanding of the development of children and developmentally appropriate practices.

Really, you should give your wife more credit than that.

And to your wife who I know is a member here, please do not be offended by my response, I DO give you more credit than that, I have read your posts and it is clear that you care deeply about the children you work with.
Sorry I didn't list EVERY duty she does, but her main task is the insure that the children a safe, fed, clean and reasonably content. She's not teaching calculus, physics or chemistry.

While we're at it, since we're legislating that everyone have a degree in raising kids that comes in contact with them, why don't we start with the parents? Before you can have a child, you must have a college degree!

Why not make it the parents responsibility to teach their kids the basics of being a decent human being? Why are we as a society continually making every move possible to take that out of the parents hands?

My mother had nothing beyond high school education, and every one of my siblings (myself included) have started from the ground up, and been very successful, running our own business's. She raised us, not a daycare center or baby sitter.

Why should a home daycare operator be suddenly required to be a school teacher? And how can you compare a home daycare setting to that of a school teacher?

Heck, why not just teach school if a person has to get a degree? 6-1/2 to 7 hour days, every holiday off, 3 months in the summer off, and probably make more cash in the end. And you don't have to make or feed lunch to the kids, you just take them to the cafeteria and head for the lounge. Nor is there the investment or wear and tear on the home.

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But we do not care for ONE child. Say $2 per hour PER child, 5 children is $10 per hour, 10 children is $20 per hour. This isn't a piece work job, it's a group factor. Sure, if you were caring for ONE child, it wouldn't be worth it at $2 per hour, and you wouldn't charge that.....geez, even my daughter who babysits charges $10 per hour.
Your daughter is a temp worker, not a regularly scheduled, every day service provider.

Even at $20 per hour, it's peanuts when you consider this isn't just labor, but space, supplies, materials, etc. For owning a business AND having to get a degree to continue operating that same business because some 'crat some where in some office thinks that suddenly, daycare providers are too stupid to do what they've been doing for decades, is pure silliness.

Let's put this in perspective....a construction laborer (you know, the guy with the little "slow" sign?) gets $20 an hour, and he doesn't hardly have to be literate, much less have a college degree, and his "capital investment" is a pair of jeans, boots, and shirt. The employer provides a hardhat and vest.

Let's be realistic....if the goobermint tries to ram this down daycare providers throats, you'll see many good providers either ignore it, go 'under the radar', or just plain quit.

Those that remain, their prices will rise to the point where EVERYONE will be on public assistance, because not even a 'good' job will pay enough to cover the daycare fees.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:40 AM
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Let's talk about this in reality-even if you get a grant or a freebie, you're still paying for it. That money doesn't appear by magic. It comes from taxes that you and I pay (or debt the gov't goes into, which you and I will have to repay). Okay, so I pay for it through my taxes. I'd have to pay those wether I went to school or not, so at least I gained something positive from paying them.

And if you get a grant, then you still have to either take night classes or close down your business (lost revenue) or hire someone to cover for you (add'l expense), then travel, your time, books, parking, etc. The majority of my courses were on-line, and I completed my school work at home during naptime. My books were paid for through my grants. My time, well, to me, it was very much worthwhile.


And you have to ask yourself....how will this increase my revenue? Will I be able to command higher fees with this degree? This increased my revenue in several ways...I am now able to advertise as a preschool and I have additional children who attend for preschool only, while school age children are at school-parents who value an educated teacher pay me $25 for 3 hours of my time for their children to attend my program. I was able to become a mentor teacher for the colleges, having student teachers placed in my program and I get paid for them to be here while I mentor them...they work for me 3 hours per day, I currently have three students. I was able to become a Environmental Raing Scale assessor for our R&R, they pay me $500 for each program assessment I conduct and I was hired as an Independent Consultant for Head Start, paid $50 hour to conduct assessments on their programs....HUGE increase in revenue, and I couldn't do any of it without my education.




Sorry I didn't list EVERY duty she does, but her main task is the insure that the children a safe, fed, clean and reasonably content. She's not teaching calculus, physics or chemistry. No, she's not teaching those things, but she holds the future in her hands. You made it sound like she does nothing but clean up after snotty kids all day.

While we're at it, since we're legislating that everyone have a degree in raising kids that comes in contact with them, why don't we start with the parents? Before you can have a child, you must have a college degree! Almost with you on that one...I wish there were some sort of standards for being a parent....unfortunately, that would not be something that could realistically be regulated.

Why not make it the parents responsibility to teach their kids the basics of being a decent human being? Why are we as a society continually making every move possible to take that out of the parents hands?
It is, and should be. No one said that we should be responsible for everything with these children, but I take a personal responsibility for what they are learning when they are with me, which, more often than not, is more time than they actually have with their parents because they are working....I am proud of my work and "my" children when they move on to school.

My mother had nothing beyond high school education, and every one of my siblings (myself included) have started from the ground up, and been very successful, running our own business's. She raised us, not a daycare center or baby sitter.
And, that's GREAT! I never said that you cannot be successful without a degree, I just think there are alot of advantages to having it....my biggest complaint about this whole issue is that many people consider it "just a piece of paper" when in reality, it is much more than that.

Why should a home daycare operator be suddenly required to be a school teacher? And how can you compare a home daycare setting to that of a school teacher? I think this really lies in what the provider wants for her program and her expectations of herself. My program is set up very much like a preschool, and that is what I wanted, and it's what my families want and appreciate.

Heck, why not just teach school if a person has to get a degree? 6-1/2 to 7 hour days, every holiday off, 3 months in the summer off, and probably make more cash in the end. And you don't have to make or feed lunch to the kids, you just take them to the cafeteria and head for the lounge. Nor is there the investment or wear and tear on the home.
Why? Because I don't want to work for someone else, AND, guess what? I couldn't make HALF of what I make if I worked for the school district. I grossed 6 figures last year....no way that would happen working in public schools.



Your daughter is a temp worker, not a regularly scheduled, every day service provider. So? If I had to hire someone to work for me, I would pay them more than $10 per hour. I paid my daughter $10 per hour to work for me all summer.....my sub makes $15 per hour.

Even at $20 per hour, it's peanuts when you consider this isn't just labor, but space, supplies, materials, etc. For owning a business AND having to get a degree to continue operating that same business because some 'crat some where in some office thinks that suddenly, daycare providers are too stupid to do what they've been doing for decades, is pure silliness.
Sure, but there are MANY perks to being self-employed as well. I don't pay for commute, meals out, a wardrobe for the job, etc. And, I don't think anyone feels that daycare providers are stupid, but what is wrong with having a higher education?

Let's put this in perspective....a construction laborer (you know, the guy with the little "slow" sign?) gets $20 an hour, and he doesn't hardly have to be literate, much less have a college degree, and his "capital investment" is a pair of jeans, boots, and shirt. The employer provides a hardhat and vest.

Yep. BUT, is he HAPPY with his work? I know I am, I wouldn't trade my career for anything.

Let's be realistic....if the goobermint tries to ram this down daycare providers throats, you'll see many good providers either ignore it, go 'under the radar', or just plain quit.

Those that remain, their prices will rise to the point where EVERYONE will be on public assistance, because not even a 'good' job will pay enough to cover the daycare fees.


I disagree. I charge one of the lowest rates in my area. It's not necessary to charge exorbitant fees to make a decent living and provide a valuable service....only the providers who get a big head because they went to school would raise their rates to the point of not being affordable at all. For those who choose to ignore it, they get what they get, just as those who choose to ignore licensing regs and get caught. For those who quit, simply because they are required to LEARN something new, well, then, maybe the field is better of without them.
I hope that clarifies for you.
  #37  
Old 09-23-2010, 10:12 AM
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I hope that clarifies for you.
Why? Because I don't want to work for someone else, AND, guess what? I couldn't make HALF of what I make if I worked for the school district. I grossed 6 figures last year....no way that would happen working in public schools.

Don't you have to have a Bachelors degree to work as a teacher in the school district in California? Are you saying that you make twice that of a teachers aid? What position are you comparing yourself to that you would be qualified to take as someone with an Associate Degree?
  #38  
Old 09-23-2010, 10:32 AM
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Don't you have to have a Bachelors degree to work as a teacher in the school district in California? Are you saying that you make twice that of a teachers aid? What position are you comparing yourself to that you would be qualified to take as someone with an Associate Degree?
Sorry to be off topic but...Welcome back Nannyde!
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:32 AM
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This increased my revenue in several ways...I am now able to advertise as a preschool and I have additional children who attend for preschool only, while school age children are at school-parents who value an educated teacher pay me $25 for 3 hours of my time for their children to attend my program. I was able to become a mentor teacher for the colleges, having student teachers placed in my program and I get paid for them to be here while I mentor them...they work for me 3 hours per day, I currently have three students. I was able to become a Environmental Raing Scale assessor for our R&R, they pay me $500 for each program assessment I conduct and I was hired as an Independent Consultant for Head Start, paid $50 hour to conduct assessments on their programs....HUGE increase in revenue, and I couldn't do any of it without my education.
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I couldn't make HALF of what I make if I worked for the school district. I grossed 6 figures last year....no way that would happen working in public schools.
Thank you so much for proving that simply providing a daycare service does not garner a hefty income. You gross 6 figures! Of course you do, you have a bunch of "side" businesses going on. You can take on a heck of a lot more kids because you have "assistants" that you don't have to pay for and are instead being paid to have them there to help out (students that you are mentoring). You are so right. If I wanted to branch out, mentor some students and get paid by the school to do so, I could take on an extra 6 kids. Then with the income from the six additional kids plus getting paid for being a mentor and not having to pay them - I'd be rollin' in the dough!

But I would bet if you take all those side businesses away, you would find yourself only making a FRACTION of what you made last year.

But thank you so much for explaining that you are doing so well BECAUSE of all these side jobs. Now I can see where you are coming from and why you consider providers to be so greedy to ask for additional payment for additional work.
  #40  
Old 09-23-2010, 12:03 PM
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Don't you have to have a Bachelors degree to work as a teacher in the school district in California? Are you saying that you make twice that of a teachers aid? What position are you comparing yourself to that you would be qualified to take as someone with an Associate Degree?
Not as a preschool teacher, but, yes, as a kindergarten and up you do. So, I suppose I am comparing it to a preschool teacher.

But, even a teacher with a bachelor's degree earns less.

Last edited by Crystal; 09-23-2010 at 01:05 PM.
  #41  
Old 09-23-2010, 12:07 PM
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Thank you so much for proving that simply providing a daycare service does not garner a hefty income. You gross 6 figures! Of course you do, you have a bunch of "side" businesses going on. You can take on a heck of a lot more kids because you have "assistants" that you don't have to pay for and are instead being paid to have them there to help out (students that you are mentoring). You are so right. If I wanted to branch out, mentor some students and get paid by the school to do so, I could take on an extra 6 kids. Then with the income from the six additional kids plus getting paid for being a mentor and not having to pay them - I'd be rollin' in the dough!

But I would bet if you take all those side businesses away, you would find yourself only making a FRACTION of what you made last year.

But thank you so much for explaining that you are doing so well BECAUSE of all these side jobs. Now I can see where you are coming from and why you consider providers to be so greedy to ask for additional payment for additional work.
My student teachers don't count in my ratios, so I cannot take extra kids because they are here. My husband is my assistant and we are licensed for 14 children. And, yes, the side jobs do allow me to make extra income, and I am able to have those side jobs because of my education (which was the point of this thread). BUT, I still grossed 96,000 before my side jobs, just totals from enrollment. suppose you could cut my income in half since my husband works with me, but I don't because it's a household income. And, before anyone asks, YES, it's all claimed on my taxes
  #42  
Old 09-23-2010, 12:10 PM
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But thank you so much for explaining that you are doing so well BECAUSE of all these side jobs. Now I can see where you are coming from and why you consider providers to be so greedy to ask for additional payment for additional work.
When and where did I say providers are being greedy to ask for additional payment for additional work?
  #43  
Old 09-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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My student teachers don't count in my ratios, so I cannot take extra kids because they are here. My husband is my assistant and we are licensed for 14 children. And, yes, the side jobs do allow me to make extra income, and I am able to have those side jobs because of my education (which was the point of this thread). BUT, I still grossed 96,000 before my side jobs, just totals from enrollment. suppose you could cut my income in half since my husband works with me, but I don't because it's a household income. And, before anyone asks, YES, it's all claimed on my taxes
I have been reading this thread with some interest, because I am really on the fence about having/needing a degree. Probably because I am thinking about going back to school...

This can be a lucrative business for the right person, with or without a degree. I have done this for 22 years; I have a degree but it is NOT in Early Childhood Education, it is in Business Administration. I worked for ten years prior to starting my daycare doing Corporate AR, AP, Income Tax and Payroll. I started my daycare because I wanted to be a SAHM but we couldn't afford it ~ I stayed with it because I loved it, I was good at it AND I made more money than I could make working in my former field. After the first 5 years, we took the plunge and built a house geared for daycare.

I am licensed for 14, but usually have only 12 kids enrolled, some full time and some part time. I grossed $95k last year and I will come very close to $100K this year. All jobs have pros and cons, but I would never go back to working for someone else.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:44 PM
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I have to add, I never said that, for me, obtaining a degree was about being able to make more money....I simply responded to another posters comment. I could make just as much money as I do now enrollment wise, without the education.

For me, having a degree goes beyond the money aspect of it. For me, it's about being educated about what I do, being able to offer a Developmentally Appropriate program AND be an effective teacher for young children. Certainly, having experience is an extremely valuable asset to have - especially when it pertains to working with children. BUT, FOR ME, having an education is equally important.

My original question here was why is it NOT okay to talk about having a degree? Why do some people get so defensive about it and automatically say "it's just a piece of paper" ? Why do some people automatically assume that if someone mentions having an education, they think they are superior?

It has never been about the money for me....if I was working towards NOT being a family childcare provider, it would be about the money, because to work in nearly any industry and to make a decent salary, you have to have an education. But that's not the case. I went to school to be the best I can be at what I do.
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