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  #1  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:46 AM
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My4SunshineGirlsNY My4SunshineGirlsNY is offline
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Default New DCB HITTING And Arguing Constantly..What To Do??

Short history..just took a new 4 year old boy this week..the boy's previous provider quit him without warning..Called mom 2 Sunday's ago and said she couldn't watch him anymore. No notice.

In my start up paperwork mom states boy was aggressive with the younger daycare kids at previous provider...and verbally mentioned he hit the other boy at old daycare a couple times (I'm thinking it was more than a couple times).

This has been a highly challanging week for me with new daycare boy. My daughter and daycare boy are the same age, 4.

Daycare boy has shown a lot of frustration (easily frustrated when someone tries to play with him, doesn't go his way, ect.), and has hit my daughter multiple times. They argue and fight constantly...daycare boy argues over everything and won't let things go...even if my daughter is pretend playing he will say in an angry tone "No, that's not how it goes, NOooo" and will say it over and over until he gets so frustrated he hits her. Today we were singing ABC's and my daughter joins in singing and he yelled at her in an angry tone and said "Stop, I'm doing it"..and said it over and over until she got frustrated. There are so many times he argues that I'm turning blue in the face to stop it all. Redirection has not done a thing with him so I have been just patiently putting him in a time out every time he yells at someone (he yelled at my older daughters (age 12 and 6) after school because he was in the time out chair and they walked by on their way to the kitchen).

My 4 year old daughter is not always innocent and may take a toy away and I have to speak to her but because they are both head strong, I'm going out of my mind wondering what to do. The main problem with the new daycare boy is he is yelling and now throwing fits when I have to remove him from our little group (I have my daughter, and 17 month old nephew during the day). He is even now telling me no when I guide him to another area separate from the other kids because he can't get along, and it's only my 4th day with him.

I don't know what to do, I did the redirection, I'm doing time outs calmly..just removing him when he gets overly frustrated and asking him if he understands why he is in time out (and he knows), and these issues are happening over and over and over again.

Is it possible this is just something that will never get better no matter what? I'm afraid it will get worse because his first day here he was hitting and arguing with both the 17 month old and my daughter. All morning long I hear mostly fits from him because he won't get along. HELP!!
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:57 AM
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Did you use the scary daycare lady voice?

I would be a little concerened that he is acting this way on his first day, usually kids are a bit more intimidated for at least a few days. I would make lots of note regarding behavior and have a sit down with the parents. I would think that having been released from another daycare, that they would be open to getting on board with discipline.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:43 PM
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I would really want to find out why the other provider quit on such short notice. This kid is probably going to blow a gasket on you one day and really end up hurting someone. I've BTDT and it was not a nice situation.

Do you have a two week escape claus in your contract? You may want to decide now what's going to be the straw that breaks the camels back and let mom know about it, because this behavior is probably just the tip of a very large iceberg.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a couple of other providers out there who have let him go also.

I'm sorry if this is so negative, but I've been through something similar and it about wrecked me, nothing I did helped the child. One day, BOOM. It wasn't until a couple of months later that I found out about the kid's colorful past history. I really felt like a failure for not being able to handle him, until I found out how many places he had been and asked to leave from.

Don't put yourself through it.
Good luck
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jen View Post
Did you use the scary daycare lady voice?

I would be a little concerened that he is acting this way on his first day, usually kids are a bit more intimidated for at least a few days. I would make lots of note regarding behavior and have a sit down with the parents. I would think that having been released from another daycare, that they would be open to getting on board with discipline.
LOL...I used my stern voice to let him know that type of behavior was not tolerated. I told him sternly that his behavior is not acceptable..we do not hit because it hurts and is not nice.

I am concerned he was actiing this way on the first day....thank you unregistered...I'm glad to know I'm not alone...and that's just it, I don't want to feel like I can't handle it and feel like a failure...but I have to realize when it's gone too far. I am going to try a sticker chart...setting it up in 30min. blocks...for every 1/2 hour he is good he can put a sticker on to see his progress. I'm praying this will help some.

Oh and I forgot to mention, he is 4 and not potty trained yet...he will pee only sometimes in the potty but I'm changing every poop he has. Is this "normal" at 4 years old? I have only girls so not sure if this is normal for boys???
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:17 PM
hcmom hcmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY View Post

Oh and I forgot to mention, he is 4 and not potty trained yet...he will pee only sometimes in the potty but I'm changing every poop he has. Is this "normal" at 4 years old? I have only girls so not sure if this is normal for boys???


No, It's not "normal". My son just turned 3 in Oct and he has been PT'ed since July.
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2009, 08:27 PM
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NOOOOO...not normal! Cut your losses and run!!!!!!

Or, if you really want to make the effort I would tell Mom it is absolutely time to get with the program. If you go that route I'd give it a 30 day probationary period, including weekly meetings with Mom to discuss progress. That way she knows the situation is serious and will hopefully participate in helping this poor kid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY View Post

Oh and I forgot to mention, he is 4 and not potty trained yet...he will pee only sometimes in the potty but I'm changing every poop he has. Is this "normal" at 4 years old? I have only girls so not sure if this is normal for boys???
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2009, 06:33 AM
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4 years old and not potty trained with aggression? Hmmm is there any way you can suggest to the parents that the child be seen by ESD? I personaly refuse to change a 4 yr olds diaper unless its due to a medical condition, the ONLY time iv ever had an issue with a child that old not being fully potty trained was with a set of twin boys who have aspergers(sp?), You're in the first week of care and he is exhibiting this much aggression, not normal. Also if you are feeling this frustrated with the way he acts how do you think your daughter and other children (who are the ones being yelled at and hit) feel? I do think it sounds like he has something going on but you are a childcare provider not a therapist, talk to dcm and tell her flat out that his behavior is not normal in your experiance and his anger and lashing out is unsafe for the other kids in your care. Ask her to have him evaluated, not for you, not for her but for him.

I'd let her know too that his staying in your care is not a garuntee even if the child does have some kind of mental delay or disorder that is diagnosed as you are not equiped to deal with a child like that while providing a safe environment for the other children in your care..Ohh and I also have it in my policies that if child is not fully potty trained by 4 their weekly fee will be more..I'd also like to know what the previous provider has to say ONLY as i would like to know how long she kept him and how cooperative the parents are, sady (from my experiance) some parents refuse to get help for their child because they wont consider the fact that their precious offspring may not be up to the normal standards of society (who is perfectly normal anyway?). So I guess if it was me I would give mom a written notice stating that they are on a (do you have a two week clause in your contract) week or two week probation notice due to the violent behavior of the child. If the behvior has not improved drastically their last day of care will be ***x, unless above mentioned behavior becomes to unsafe for the other children at which time the childcare contract would be terminated immidiately..

Or something like that, I'm still concerned that the other provider terminated without notice, I know some providers dont handle themselves proffessionaly but most of us give them two weeks or more unless theirs a major issue kwim??? good luck and please update..
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:58 PM
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I would definately talk to the parents about all of this. I have a 2 week trial period in my contract, just for these cases. There was probably a huge reason why he isn't at the other daycare anymore. Also who knows how many he has been thru before that one!!! It could be alot!!!
It is not worth having to deal with this, having you stressed, and the other children over this one child!!!
Hope this helps!!
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
4 years old and not potty trained with aggression? Hmmm is there any way you can suggest to the parents that the child be seen by ESD? I personaly refuse to change a 4 yr olds diaper unless its due to a medical condition, the ONLY time iv ever had an issue with a child that old not being fully potty trained was with a set of twin boys who have aspergers(sp?), You're in the first week of care and he is exhibiting this much aggression, not normal. Also if you are feeling this frustrated with the way he acts how do you think your daughter and other children (who are the ones being yelled at and hit) feel? I do think it sounds like he has something going on but you are a childcare provider not a therapist, talk to dcm and tell her flat out that his behavior is not normal in your experiance and his anger and lashing out is unsafe for the other kids in your care. Ask her to have him evaluated, not for you, not for her but for him.

I'd let her know too that his staying in your care is not a garuntee even if the child does have some kind of mental delay or disorder that is diagnosed as you are not equiped to deal with a child like that while providing a safe environment for the other children in your care..Ohh and I also have it in my policies that if child is not fully potty trained by 4 their weekly fee will be more..I'd also like to know what the previous provider has to say ONLY as i would like to know how long she kept him and how cooperative the parents are, sady (from my experiance) some parents refuse to get help for their child because they wont consider the fact that their precious offspring may not be up to the normal standards of society (who is perfectly normal anyway?). So I guess if it was me I would give mom a written notice stating that they are on a (do you have a two week clause in your contract) week or two week probation notice due to the violent behavior of the child. If the behvior has not improved drastically their last day of care will be ***x, unless above mentioned behavior becomes to unsafe for the other children at which time the childcare contract would be terminated immidiately..

Or something like that, I'm still concerned that the other provider terminated without notice, I know some providers dont handle themselves proffessionaly but most of us give them two weeks or more unless theirs a major issue kwim??? good luck and please update..
My son is overly agressive and has so many trying moments, so I can somewhat empathise with the mother of this little boy. You definitely need to have a talk with his mother and try to *gently* explain to her that, while he may be a bright little boy, if she doesn't get a handle on him, he's going to have life-long problems. Depending on how much you think you can handle, I think the 30 day probationary period sounds like a good idea. You may want to help this child, but ultimately it is his mother who is going to need to take the lead on his development and get him help if needed.

And no--it is NOT normal for a 4 year old to not be potty trained. Either he has developmental issues or his mother just doesn't do what she needs to with him at home. Good luck to you and please keep us updated.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:24 PM
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Our little boy had the same problems. We did not know it at the time that he was gifted. Even though it is wonderful that a child has a high IQ, they need constant mental stimulation and are considered handicapped in most daycare/preschool settings. It was a nightmare most of the time until we decided to home school him. It is a great sacrifice of one's time but it was worth it.

His daycare considered us bad parents because THEY could not understand or control him. Once we had him tested we understood that special care was needed. (they are handicapped) These children understand more than a child their age can control emotionally. Childhood should be blissful but gifted children are mentally advanced while being emotionally stunted. It is a tough combination and understanding is what's needed. Most daycare/childcare are unprepared to recognize it or nuture it.

Last edited by Michael; 11-23-2009 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by My4SunshineGirlsNY View Post
Oh and I forgot to mention, he is 4 and not potty trained yet...he will pee only sometimes in the potty but I'm changing every poop he has. Is this "normal" at 4 years old? I have only girls so not sure if this is normal for boys???
I once had a boy in my class years ago. Very smart little boy. He was 3 and he was completely potty trained. Mom had gotten pregnant. Unfortunately she lost the baby. She put this boy BACK in diapers even though he was completely trained. Of course he was going to bathroom in the diaper because she wouldn't let him go in the potty. He didn't get completely trained again until he was 6 years old.

I asked at the school where he was at how they managed with him being in diapers like that. He had to be in a special class, again even though he was not at all special needs.

A highlight was that that mother did eventually have a healthy little girl
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:43 PM
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Well today the boy was surprisingly good...I couldn't believe it!! It was like a new kid! I wonder if my sticker chart I made on Friday and praise when I was catching good behavior set in...or if it was an unusal day for him to be good. Only time will tell. But today wasn't horrible/terrible like last week was.

I can't even describe it, last week was so hard to listen to all that yelling and whining he was doing...despite my greatest effort to guide him in the right direction. I put all my effort into him last week...I try to be a problem solver and make things better by using what I know to teach them what is acceptable.

The boy did have a liver transplant 2 years ago and is on many different medicines....so I wonder if this has something to do with his potty training?? His poops are runny so I'm still confused if it is a lazy issue or medical issue.

His mom said she JUST started using pull ups...I'm still learning him but I'm thinking most of it is stubborn/laziness (just doesn't want to stop what he's doing to go). I asked him after school to come use the potty and he was being rather stobborn and would not come..I tried grabbing his hand to guide him to the bathroom and he started whining aggressively...toward the end of the day he was getting back to his old last weeks' ways.

I just pray his good behavior keeps up, I can deal with bad moments and bad days...but last week was excessive.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:54 PM
GretasLittleFriends GretasLittleFriends is offline
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My son took a while to potty train, and I finally figured out it was because he was lazy. He was 3 1/2 before I realized that if he's in a diaper/pull-up, he's going to use it rather than the toilet. One day I took him to the store, let him pick out what undies he wanted, and told him that "this is it. You're going to wear these like the big boy you are and use the toilet instead of that yucky diaper." That was all it really took. He had a couple of wet pants in the first two weeks, like 3 in two weeks.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:02 PM
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Sounds to me like the root problem is the parents.

The kid's not house broke yet....because the parents are not in charge, the child is.

The kid's a jerk to others, because he gets away with it. I'll bet he treats his parents like servants, demanding something, and they don't want to listen to him, so they give in.

From the sounds of things, this kid is what I would classify as "Spoiled Brat".

Be firm, be strict, and don't let him get away with even the littlest infraction while in your care. That's your only hope.

Explain to him at the outset of the day that these are the rules, and these are the consequences. Violation of these rules results in this consequence, and repeated violations result in more severe consequences.

(hit a kid, 5 min time out....hit another kid, 10 mins, etc).
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