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  #1  
Old 05-18-2015, 02:44 PM
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Default What Is Up With Breastfeeding DCMs Not Getting Their Baby Used To A Bottle?

I ask every one of them to PLEASE get baby used to a bottle before they start care, but they never do. It is a pain for me, and I realize now that they just don't care if it is a pain for me, but it is THEIR baby who is ultimately suffering

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Old 05-18-2015, 02:47 PM
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FYI - I started two new 3mos last week, both breastfed. One is used to a bottle and one is not. Obviously one is a delight and one is not. I feel like the dcm set us up for a miserable time.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:56 PM
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I don't request it. I require it.

They must come within two to three days of beginning daycare and SHOW me the baby can gulp...hork...chow... destroy a bottle.

I tell them on interview one I can't start a baby until I SEE it and it needs to be within two to three days of the first day.
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:27 PM
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I require it also. Even if I nanny. I'm not going to sit anywhere with a miserable baby that can't take a bottle, not even in their own home. It's unfair to the baby and unfair to me.

I require them to show me that they can feed the baby from a bottle.
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:34 PM
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I've have never required that they show me before. It used to be enough to discuss it before the first day, they always cared enough to get the baby used to a bottle. I told dcm tonight that it wasn't going well. Her reply "she'll get used to it."

Well, I only have a certain amount of time per day to devote to feeding her so...........
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:43 PM
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Definitely a different parenting era
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:33 PM
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I would refuse to take a child that is not bottle trained.

The other option is to send mom videos of unhappy baby at daycare. Be clear that this is an issue that needs to be (and can be in most cases) remedied immediately. They may get stubborn and take their child to someone who will put up with this circus so it is up to you to take the risk. Log how often and how long you tried to feed baby and how long baby cried each day as well as how little baby is eating and what amount they should be eating at this age. It will take a lot for a parent to disregard baby crying for a total of 4+ hours a day when the facts and numerous cell phone videos as evidence. If they pick up a non crying child and can keep them breastfeeding in the evening with you dealing with the crying during the day, they can sort of forget that their baby is literally crying all day long. A good parent will take you seriously and get this worked out. A bad parent will leave. Either way, you win.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:20 AM
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Am I the only person that sees this issue as bordering abuse/neglect? I mean if you don't get your child to take a bottle and you drop them off for 8 hours a day or more, isn't that kind of like not feeding them? And it all falls on the parent as the provider can't do much about it. I have always required that baby take a bottle or not be in my home. Anything else feels like I am condoning or participating in abusive behavior. Not saying anyone here is abusing a child, just that the parent is and I as a provider can't be a part of that.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cheerfuldom View Post
I would refuse to take a child that is not bottle trained.

The other option is to send mom videos of unhappy baby at daycare. Be clear that this is an issue that needs to be (and can be in most cases) remedied immediately. They may get stubborn and take their child to someone who will put up with this circus so it is up to you to take the risk. Log how often and how long you tried to feed baby and how long baby cried each day as well as how little baby is eating and what amount they should be eating at this age. It will take a lot for a parent to disregard baby crying for a total of 4+ hours a day when the facts and numerous cell phone videos as evidence. If they pick up a non crying child and can keep them breastfeeding in the evening with you dealing with the crying during the day, they can sort of forget that their baby is literally crying all day long. A good parent will take you seriously and get this worked out. A bad parent will leave. Either way, you win.
I agree. Instead of simply accepting it (dealing with a cranky hungry baby) give it back to the parent. I would refuse to take a baby if the baby did not readily accept a bottle. If the baby won't take a bottle, I literally (and physically..lol) can not provide food for them so its in the baby's best interest to be sent home...where they CAN eat.

For mom to say "she'll get used to it" is not only rude but totally unacceptable from a parents standpoint....it's neglectful.
Why would she not care if her child can eat or not?!
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:33 AM
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When an infant has a cold and can not suck down a bottle due to congestion I call for pick up. It is dangerous to have an infant on an ounce or two for the whole day. They can dehydrate quickly. You can call for pick up for this too. No matter what the reason the baby won't take the bottle they need to go home.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:33 AM
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I can see it both ways , now. But it took me caring for another persons child for me to SEE it. I was a nursing mom. I left my child with my mil for some alone time with Dh. I gave her a bottle a few times before leaving her so it wasn't cold turkey, BUT she didn't want to take it from mil easily. Mil was nervous about it, and dd DID catch on, but was difficult. My thoughts were that dd would give in and finally take the bottle from her. NOW though I can see just how problematic it is for a caregiver having been in a care givers shoes

As an analogy, I never did realize the challenges of being a pastor to a church until one pastor appreciation service. The church invited a different pastor to come and speak for it. His focus? The things your pastor won't tell you. He went on to discuss the things we as the congregation didn't know that our pastor has to deal with. One example was a personal one in which he and his own wife was in the hospital as she was having their first child. Supposedly a very joyous moment in their lives. BUT, on another floor was a family from their church who's mother was in the process of passing away. That family was grieving and in complete despair. He was going from floor to floor trying to comfort and trying to rejoice. A pastors life is not as easy as some might think.

I think the same goes for caregivers in a way. Often parents don't recognize the hardships and challenges they face because they've never been in thier shoes.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mduck View Post
I can see it both ways , now. But it took me caring for another persons child for me to SEE it. I was a nursing mom. I left my child with my mil for some alone time with Dh. I gave her a bottle a few times before leaving her so it wasn't cold turkey, BUT she didn't want to take it from mil easily. Mil was nervous about it, and dd DID catch on, but was difficult. My thoughts were that dd would give in and finally take the bottle from her. NOW though I can see just how problematic it is for a caregiver having been in a care givers shoes

As an analogy, I never did realize the challenges of being a pastor to a church until one pastor appreciation service. The church invited a different pastor to come and speak for it. His focus? The things your pastor won't tell you. He went on to discuss the things we as the congregation didn't know that our pastor has to deal with. One example was a personal one in which he and his own wife was in the hospital as she was having their first child. Supposedly a very joyous moment in their lives. BUT, on another floor was a family from their church who's mother was in the process of passing away. That family was grieving and in complete despair. He was going from floor to floor trying to comfort and trying to rejoice. A pastors life is not as easy as some might think.

I think the same goes for caregivers in a way. Often parents don't recognize the hardships and challenges they face because they've never been in thier shoes.
I understand what you are saying about being in our shoes, but to me the issue is about being in the babies shoes. The child is hungry and needs fed. To not feed the child is withholding food, and is not allowed.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Thriftylady View Post
I understand what you are saying about being in our shoes, but to me the issue is about being in the babies shoes. The child is hungry and needs fed. To not feed the child is withholding food, and is not allowed.
I agree. This really shows disregard on the parents part to not see the whole picture, to not show concern for a child that is refusing to eat during the day, to know their baby is crying constantly.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:28 PM
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Default not understanding

redoing because my computer messed up in mid type.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:43 PM
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Ok, my computer messed up and sent my message mid type and all garbled. Sorry bout that.

So here's my second attempt. If mom stops breastfeeding for whatever reason (milk dries up, doesn't want to do it anymore). Someone is going to have to introduce the bottle, be it mom or caregiver. It's always difficult to transition a baby from breast to bottle. Baby will most likely always fight the change and refuse for a time. What difference does it make whether they refuse bottle from mom or from caregiver? The difference is rudeness on moms part because she is putting that difficult heart wrenching situation onto the caregiver who has only two hands and likely many other children to care for at the same time.

I've not heard of a case where a child goes from breast to bottle and starved after repeated efforts to introduce the bottle. But then again, I've never researched it. Maybe there is.

My question is this. Is the mom abusive because she stopped breastfeeding and her baby is not taking the bottle? Is that abuse? When the caregiver hands the baby to mom and mom still has a problem getting baby to eat. Is that abuse? When does it become abuse?

Added: Ok I think I read some of the responses wrong. No one was saying it was abusive. So oops.

I guess that's why I think it is a matter of being inconsiderate to your child care provider because I don't understand the "abuse" part of what people are saying.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not judging the responses. I've just not been in the childcare business for very long and don't know all the ins and out of it. Is there something that says this is abuse?

Last edited by mduck; 05-19-2015 at 05:47 PM. Reason: oops
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:50 PM
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Ok, my computer messed up and sent my message mid type and all garbled. Sorry bout that.

So here's my second attempt. If mom stops breastfeeding for whatever reason (milk dries up, doesn't want to do it anymore). Someone is going to have to introduce the bottle, be it mom or caregiver. It's always difficult to transition a baby from breast to bottle. Baby will most likely always fight the change and refuse for a time. What difference does it make whether they refuse bottle from mom or from caregiver? The difference is rudeness on moms part because she is putting that difficult heart wrenching situation onto the caregiver who has only two hands and likely many other children to care for at the same time.

I've not heard of a case where a child goes from breast to bottle and starved after repeated efforts to introduce the bottle. But then again, I've never researched it. Maybe there is.

My question is this. Is the mom abusive because she stopped breastfeeding and her baby is not taking the bottle? Is that abuse? When the caregiver hands the baby to mom and mom still has a problem getting baby to eat. Is that abuse? When does it become abuse?

Added: Ok I think I read some of the responses wrong. No one was saying it was abusive. So oops.

I guess that's why I think it is a matter of being inconsiderate to your child care provider because I don't understand the "abuse" part of what people are saying.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not judging the responses. I've just not been in the childcare business for very long and don't know all the ins and out of it. Is there something that says this is abuse?
Yes she is being abusive. From what I remember (although I didn't breastfeed due to personal issues), all parents that do are taught that the baby needs to learn the bottle, even if dad does one feeding a day. Parents are TOLD this may become an issue. They are told that for reasons. What if BFing does not work like you mentioned? The baby still needs fed no matter what and a mother shouldn't set up the situation where baby can't be fed. It doesn't matter why baby can't be fed, what matters is baby is hungry, and it is an easy problem to fix.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:54 PM
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As a parent dcm should consider the what ifs. What if there is an emergency that would keep the child in care where she could not get to her. What if dcm had an accident and ended up in the hospital? What if dcm needs to take a medication that could potentially harm the baby. Maybe I worry too much but i would like a back up plan.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:19 PM
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Ok, I'm still not seeing the abuse part, but I DO understand that things happen and its better to plan ahead.

And I put my post edit (Added) part in the wrong place so sorry bout that.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:57 PM
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Ok, I'm still not seeing the abuse part, but I DO understand that things happen and its better to plan ahead.

And I put my post edit (Added) part in the wrong place so sorry bout that.
So are you saying it is okay to intentionally not feed a child????
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:19 AM
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Yes she is being abusive. From what I remember (although I didn't breastfeed due to personal issues), all parents that do are taught that the baby needs to learn the bottle, even if dad does one feeding a day. Parents are TOLD this may become an issue. They are told that for reasons. What if BFing does not work like you mentioned? The baby still needs fed no matter what and a mother shouldn't set up the situation where baby can't be fed. It doesn't matter why baby can't be fed, what matters is baby is hungry, and it is an easy problem to fix.
Neither of my children ever took a bottle and I was 100% not abusing them by doing that. Pumping does not work for me, it just doesn't. Thankfully, I am home with my kids so it wasn't an issue. If I had to send them to daycare, then absolutly I would have introduced the bottle/formula. If breastfeeding didn't work, we would have handled it then. A bottle would have been an adjustment but not an impossible thing to introduce. At 6 months they both took sippy cups just fine.
Parents who send their kids to daycare not being able to take a bottle are annoying/difficult etc but no, they're not abusive. You just call them to get their child so they can be fed. If they refused or you refused to call them, then there would be a bigger problem.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:59 AM
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No, I am not saying that intentionally not feeding your child is not abusive.

Providing a bottle with milk and asking someone to try and feed your child or trying to do so yourself is NOT intentionally not feeding your child. Big difference in IMHO.

Intentionally not feeding your child is not trying to feed your child at all.

We will probably not agree on this it seems, but I do respect your seniority in childcare abilities and experience. Calling it abuse is just something that I don't understand.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:13 AM
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Yes she is being abusive. From what I remember (although I didn't breastfeed due to personal issues), all parents that do are taught that the baby needs to learn the bottle, even if dad does one feeding a day. Parents are TOLD this may become an issue. They are told that for reasons. What if BFing does not work like you mentioned? The baby still needs fed no matter what and a mother shouldn't set up the situation where baby can't be fed. It doesn't matter why baby can't be fed, what matters is baby is hungry, and it is an easy problem to fix.
I disagree. The mother is not being abusive or neglectful if she does not nipple train her child.

The mother is somewhat neglectful if she drops her baby off at daycare KNOWING the baby cannot feed via nipple. That is unfair to the caregiver but it is not abusive. Like I said, I think its a bit neglectful but not something reportable....kwim?

HOWEVER, the liability falls onto the provider if she/he keeps the infant in care KNOWING the child is not eating after a certain period of time.

For example, my handbook states that I will NOT keep a baby more than 3 hours if I am unable to feed them. The parent will be called for pick up so the baby can be nursed.

I require parents to nipple train their baby before bringing them to care but I have had experiences where the baby was not so good at it at home but adjusted just fine here with me doing most the work, although the easy trainers aren't really work...just that I am the one who primarily does the bottle feeding.

It is the PROVIDER who bears the responsibility in this situation to either make sure the child IS nipple trained before accepting them into care OR to call for pick up after the baby misses a meal and becomes distressed.

This is like asthma. Lets say a parent tells a provider upon drop off the Billy doesn't have his inhaler (mom forgot it). Billy stays at daycare and has an asthma attack and dies.

Guess WHO'S fault it is? Not mom's for forgetting....but the provider for accepting a child into care KNOWING he does not have the tools/items/skills he needs to survive.

This is why Nan is smart and not only requires parents to nipple train but she requires them to SHOW her. NOT tell her but demonstrate it.

IF you have that rule, then you need to back it up and set a time limit. Keep baby for x number of hours before calling for mom to pick up and nurse. The baby cannot go all day without eating. That IS neglectful on the PROVIDERS part. Mom can't feed if she isn't there.

This is one of those situations where there needs to be a plan (a COMPLETE plan) in place so that the baby does not go hungry. It has nothing to do with anything other than the ADULT caregiver in charge making sure she/he provides each child in her care (that she/he agreed to provide care for) has what they need to thrive.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:15 AM
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Parents who send their kids to daycare not being able to take a bottle are annoying/difficult etc but no, they're not abusive. You just call them to get their child so they can be fed. If they refused or you refused to call them, then there would be a bigger problem.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:19 AM
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I disagree. The mother is not being abusive or neglectful if she does not nipple train her child.

The mother is somewhat neglectful if she drops her baby off at daycare KNOWING the baby cannot feed via nipple. That is unfair to the caregiver but it is not abusive. Like I said, I think its a bit neglectful but not something reportable....kwim?

HOWEVER, the liability falls onto the provider if she/he keeps the infant in care KNOWING the child is not eating after a certain period of time.

For example, my handbook states that I will NOT keep a baby more than 3 hours if I am unable to feed them. The parent will be called for pick up so the baby can be nursed.

I require parents to nipple train their baby before bringing them to care but I have had experiences where the baby was not so good at it at home but adjusted just fine here with me doing most the work, although the easy trainers aren't really work...just that I am the one who primarily does the bottle feeding.

It is the PROVIDER who bears the responsibility in this situation to either make sure the child IS nipple trained before accepting them into care OR to call for pick up after the baby misses a meal and becomes distressed.

This is like asthma. Lets say a parent tells a provider upon drop off the Billy doesn't have his inhaler (mom forgot it). Billy stays at daycare and has an asthma attack and dies.

Guess WHO'S fault it is? Not mom's for forgetting....but the provider for accepting a child into care KNOWING he does not have the tools/items/skills he needs to survive.

This is why Nan is smart and not only requires parents to nipple train but she requires them to SHOW her. NOT tell her but demonstrate it.

IF you have that rule, then you need to back it up and set a time limit. Keep baby for x number of hours before calling for mom to pick up and nurse. The baby cannot go all day without eating. That IS neglectful on the PROVIDERS part. Mom can't feed if she isn't there.

This is one of those situations where there needs to be a plan (a COMPLETE plan) in place so that the baby does not go hungry. It has nothing to do with anything other than the ADULT caregiver in charge making sure she/he provides each child in her care (that she/he agreed to provide care for) has what they need to thrive.
I wouldn't report it, if the child had medical issues due to it that would be up to the doctor to deal with. However, I would not be a party to it. Like you I wouldn't take a child I can't feed. I am not sure I would do it for three hours just because of the fact that I as the provider am held to (as I should be) a standard of care that says I will not deny food. If I don't feed a child, it will be considered abuse. What a parent does, is on them. What I do is on me. Which really is what you are saying I just won't do it is all. My thing is okay I agree to keep baby I can't feed for three hours. What happens after four or five hours when mom still isn't here? Sadly I have been in similar situations (mostly when dad forgot it was his night to pick up DCB and ended up at the bar and forgot him). I guess I just will always err on the side of caution in these situations.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:23 AM
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I wouldn't report it, if the child had medical issues due to it that would be up to the doctor to deal with. However, I would not be a party to it. Like you I wouldn't take a child I can't feed. I am not sure I would do it for three hours just because of the fact that I as the provider am held to (as I should be) a standard of care that says I will not deny food. If I don't feed a child, it will be considered abuse. What a parent does, is on them. What I do is on me. Which really is what you are saying I just won't do it is all. My thing is okay I agree to keep baby I can't feed for three hours. What happens after four or five hours when mom still isn't here? Sadly I have been in similar situations (mostly when dad forgot it was his night to pick up DCB and ended up at the bar and forgot him). I guess I just will always err on the side of caution in these situations.
Exactly! You (general you as a provider) either not accept the child at all until you KNOW they are capable of eating or you do NOT accept the child into care.

Whatever option you choose, is up to each provider but simply struggling all day trying to get a baby to eat unsuccessfully is neglectful on the providers part.

Bottom line is; have a plan in place that meets BABY'S needs verses just keeping a starving, unhappy baby all day without contacting the parent.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:17 AM
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One of the easiest fixes for this problem is to call mom to pick up. I have a one pick up/drop off per day policy, so if mom has to come, she takes baby home with her. Trust me, after a few times (if that!), baby will know how to take a bottle. Once it inconveniences the parent, they usually get on board very quick!
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:29 AM
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Just to clarify - no baby is being abused or going unfed at my house. I AM feeding this baby. I hold the bottle in her mouth and the milk drips in and she gulps it. She is not sucking though and it is not enjoyable for her or me.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:28 AM
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Exactly! You (general you as a provider) either not accept the child at all until you KNOW they are capable of eating or you do NOT accept the child into care.

Whatever option you choose, is up to each provider but simply struggling all day trying to get a baby to eat unsuccessfully is neglectful on the providers part.

Bottom line is; have a plan in place that meets BABY'S needs verses just keeping a starving, unhappy baby all day without contacting the parent.
This is good advice to follow, wish I had learned this a long time ago, instead of allowing other people to persuade me itno trying over and over again to get a breast fed baby to drink from a bottle. People who treated me like I should know how to get a baby to drink from a bottle....because it's my job
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Old 05-20-2015, 12:01 PM
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Just to clarify - no baby is being abused or going unfed at my house. I AM feeding this baby. I hold the bottle in her mouth and the milk drips in and she gulps it. She is not sucking though and it is not enjoyable for her or me.
I hope you didn't take my stance wrong, clearly if she wasn't eating at all you would do something about it. I didn't mean it like that. This situation (regardless of if it is you, me or another provider) is on the parent. In your case I don't think the child is not eating at all, but I had one parent contact me recently who said her child wouldn't eat at all and wanted to leave her 8 hours a day. My answer of course was no way in heck. In your situation you are doing more than I think I would be willing to do, but that choice is yours. The mother however shouldn't be putting all this on you like she is.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:08 PM
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I didn't take it wrong Thrifty - just wanted to clarify. I don't think I would do for a new family but they are long time. The baby IS getting better too.
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  #31  
Old 05-20-2015, 06:39 PM
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Thriftylady Thriftylady is offline
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Glad to hear things are getting better.
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  #32  
Old 05-21-2015, 11:22 AM
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Rachel Rachel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydaycarelady View Post
I ask every one of them to PLEASE get baby used to a bottle before they start care, but they never do. It is a pain for me, and I realize now that they just don't care if it is a pain for me, but it is THEIR baby who is ultimately suffering

The worst bottle refuser I ever had was a totally formula fed baby, and the "they have to drink a bottle in front of me" trick woudln't have worked. The child took a bottle fine from her mother but from no one else. Yes, it was a hard 6 weeks until she got over it.
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