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  #1  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:31 AM
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Unhappy Total Change In Behavior - Daycare Can't Cope

My 21 month old DD has been going to the same daycare since she was 7 months old. She has been well-behaved until recently. It just so happens that at the same time she started to misbehave the daycare took in two new babies, 4 months and 7 months old. Prior to this DD was the baby for over a year. She is the baby at home, and her brother is 11 years older.

Now DD throws herself back on the floor and has full on temper tantrums. The daycare has said that they have caught her biting herself, and she has even hit the daycare provider. When I drop her off, when another kid has a toy or book that she wants, or when she changes an activity she cries really loud, goes limp, or throws herself backwards on the floor. She also takes toys from the babies, and has a hard time sharing.

She does not have a problem focusing. She can be at her puzzles for hours, and she loves sitting down for a story, but it appears that when the other babies are getting attention, or she has to go from one activity to the other, or she can’t have what she wants she loses it! The daycare provider keeps telling me that this is not normal (something every parent wants to hear, right?)

DD tried throwing these tantrums at home, and I put DD in her room and left her alone to calm down. I told her I understand she is upset, but I cannot help her when she acts like this. When she calmed down, I picked her up and told her I understand that she has very big feelings and that things can be tough, but I can only help her when she is calm. I then try to predict how she feels, and ask questions: “Are you tired”, “Hungry”, “Frustrated”, or “Do you need help”. Then I tell her that she needs to ask. She is getting better at asking and these tantrums almost never happen anymore. The only time I witness these is when I drop her off at daycare.

The daycare tells me that she is being punished 3+ times a day. I took her to the Dr. for a behavior appointment. The doctor thinks it is jealousy, and that she is acting out for attention. She said that my daughter is at the age when parents usually have a second baby, and that this is normal reaction to the new situation. She recommended that I tell the daycare how I handle it and recommend they do the same. My daughter used to love going there, and now she freaks out when I drop her off. The woman at the daycare (who has only been open for 2 ½ years) keeps telling me that my daughter is not normal, and has even asked for a copy of the doctor’s report. She says none of her other kids acted this way. (They are both 6 months older than my DD, and were about a year when my DD came in) I don’t know what to do. My DD is having a tough time with the change, and I don’t want to shuffle her around from daycare to daycare. Help!
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
she has even hit the daycare provider. - This is not appropriate behavior.

she cries really loud, goes limp, or throws herself backwards on the floor. She also takes toys from the babies, and has a hard time sharing. This is expected behavior.

she can’t have what she wants she loses it! The daycare provider keeps telling me that this is not normal This is expected behavior, but unacceptable in group care.

DD tried throwing these tantrums at home, and I put DD in her room and left her alone to calm down. This is illegal in daycare.

these tantrums almost never happen anymore. The only time I witness these is when I drop her off at daycare. The two environments are not comparable, so this information is irrelevant to the provider who is responsible for the safety of a group of children.

The daycare tells me that she is being punished 3+ times a day. They are telling you to start looking for another child care solution.

The doctor thinks it is jealousy, and that she is acting out for attention. She recommended that I tell the daycare how I handle it and recommend they do the same.How many years has the doctor worked in group child care?

The woman at the daycare (who has only been open for 2 ½ years) keeps telling me that my daughter is not normal, and has even asked for a copy of the doctor’s report. She says none of her other kids acted this way. Minimizing how long she has worked in childcare will not change the fact that these behaviors are not manageable in group childcare. I believe she is telling you the extreme nature of her behaviors and the effects on the other children are not "normal" in her view, not your daughter, herself.

I don’t want to shuffle her around from daycare to daycare.
Unfortunately, I don't see another option at this time.

Your daughter is telling you that mixed age care is not for her. That is ok. There are as many types of daycare as there are many types of children.

Your daughter will most likely greatly benefit from being in a larger group of same aged children, instead.

A change of environment is exactly what I'd recommend to you as your provider in this scenario. I have been in business, successfully, 23 years, now. It is not you, it is not the provider, it is simply the environment and mismatched needs.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:03 AM
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The reply from Cat Herder is spot on.

Behavior is a way of communication and your DD is communicating with you in regards to her needs.

I understand not wanting to move her around from care to care but sometimes a change in environment is exactly what is needed to prevent certain normal behaviors from being a safety issue for others and an emotional issue for your DD.

Her needs are not being met. NOT because the provider is newish but because your DD isn't ready for or simply does not thrive in group care. Especially when she is used to being the youngest.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post
Unfortunately, I don't see another option at this time.

Your daughter is telling you that mixed age care is not for her. That is ok. There are as many types of daycare as there are many types of children.

Your daughter will most likely greatly benefit from being in a larger group of same aged children, instead.

A change of environment is exactly what I'd recommend to you as your provider in this scenario. I have been in business, successfully, 23 years, now. It is not you, it is not the provider, it is simply the environment and mismatched needs.

I agree with cat's responses to you.

I suggest you find a nursery school, a center that has a 2-3 year room, or a provider who only accepts children 2+.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:23 AM
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I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it. The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes. She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized. I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more. It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy. When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:27 AM
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Listen to Blackcat. She speaks from experience wisdom and love for all children. It's hard to say, this isn't working anymore, when it had been for so long. But the best interests of the child are always the first concern in our hearts.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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I have to agree with CH also...
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:37 AM
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Why would you want to keep your child with a woman who believes her behavior to be abnormal and it not working with you to address this?

I would not be able to separate her in a pack and play either.

Tantrums that are THAT severe are HUGELY disruptive to the group, and I speak from experience- they are NOT manageable long term. The fact that your provider is asking for a pediatrician eval tells me that she is in over her head and it is only a matter of time until you are looking for alternate care.

Please call home daycares, I run a 18m-5y program and have similar rates as birth-5 programs. Call centers to see if they offer sliding scale. I get that price is a concern, but it should never sacrifice your child's well being and happiness for a few dollars.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it. The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes. She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized. I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more. It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy. When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?
Something you have to understand is our childcare homes are also small businesses; we offer a service & have to work things in a way that is best for the group... to put so much effort into one child takes away the care from others that are also paying clients & it's not conducive to the atmosphere most providers try to keep. Sometimes change is needed.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:50 AM
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I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Your child HAS to come first. Before your paycheck etc.

I understand the money issue. I do. I've gone without because of financial situations but sadly sometimes you have to make that choice. It's just part of parenting. It's part of being an adult in general I guess. Sucks but doesnt change it.


Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it.

Please don't minimize it. She is behaving aggressively towards the person in charge. She is SHOWING a dislike of that authority. Balled up fist, slap or just a lunge....the concept is the same. She is hitting. period.

The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes.

I do not have port-a-cribs or PNP's for a nearly 2 yr old. State licensing regulations also do not allow me to separate a child her age in ANY type of containment equipment or separate her from others in general so what may not be against the law, it still may be against either licensing regulations or even the providers caregiving philosophy in general.

She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized.

I've been in this field for 25+ yrs. Dr's will tell parents whatever they want to hear. Not saying that is the case for you but the Dr isn't the one providing the care. The Dr isn't the one dealing with it. The Dr doesn't get to advise the provider HOW to do her job any more than the provider gets to tell the Dr what meds to prescribe or how to treat their patients.

I also ask for Dr's reports because parents either misinterpret what is being said, the Dr does or its simply not true. I ALWAYS ask for the written Dr report. It covers my butt when things that start out tough end badly.


I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more.

It probably IS jealousy but what do you want your provider to do about that when she care for MULTIPLE kids?

Do not make YOUR child's individual behavior, the responsibility of the provider. Her job is to do what's best for the GROUP of kids she has NOT just one.

The provider CAN NOT give your DD what she wants just because your DD wants it when she wants it. Don't insist the world change for your DD. Teach your DD to adapt to the world instead. It will make her road to adulthood must easier and more pleasant.


It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy.


Being that the provider is newish, she may not view this as normal. To her is IS NOT normal. Even if she says it is, it doesn't change the fact that she is telling you she cannot manage it.

She might not tell you to leave (no one wants to terminate care) but she might be doing what she is doing in an attempt to get you to leave (easier if a parent does the terming) so asking her outright isn't a guarantee that you get an honest answer.



When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?
I replied in bold about as well.

Your provider isn't throwing her away.

Your provider telling you she can't manage it is no different than you saying you cant afford to make changes FOR your daughter. YOUR choice isn't throwing her way is it? See? The provider isn't throwing her away.

This is YOUR child so YOU have to be the one that does the work. YOU have to do whats best for YOUR child and if this specific provider can't deal with her any longer that's YOUR situation to deal with NOT the provider's.

That does NOT mean the provider doesn't care for or love your child. Love means doing whats best for the child not what's best for you (both YOU and the provider).

I have termed kids I cared deeply for in the past. NOT because I stopped caring about them. But because I DO care about them. I've also termed because things just weren't working out.

LOVE has NOTHING to do with business.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:55 AM
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I understand they are small businesses. I started talking to other parents that have left to see where they went. Apparently, the woman at the daycare said the same thing to them. Their kid isn't normal. No other kid acts this way. How many kids can be abnormal? Other home day cares have not had issues with their kids the way she did, and they put them in a similar environment. Thanks for encouraging me to look into other providers. It shed some unexpected light on the situation. I thought I was the only one she was talking to like this. I guess it is time to change daycare.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:09 AM
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I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.
I am not trying to minimize your situation but welcome to the world of working parents.

Many providers are in this profession because their budget looks just like yours. I used to work in the outside world.

I used to make 10X what I earn now but then I had kids and my kid didn't do well in group care so I had to quit my job and take care of my child. This eliminated gas, the need for a second car, insurance and all the work related expenses I had in connection to working outside the home.

I started providing care for my child and other children so that I could still contribute to our family. Once my child grew old enough to no longer need care, I couldn't just quit daycare and go back to work....I'd invested too much (time and money) into daycare so I stayed.

This was NOT where I planned to be at this stage in my life/career. FAR from it but I did what I had to do and gave up my dream of being an attorney and instead am a LONG time child care provider with a degree in early childhood instead of law.

.... because as a parent; I did what I had to do.

I know that doesn't change or fix things for you but for lack of a better way to say it, your story is SO MUCH MORE COMMON than you think. If you don't like living pay check to pay check and feel the cost of child care is too much that your choices are limited you need to contact your state's legislature and voice your story.

Child care is not a charity and most of us make far less income than the families we serve so your state representative and legislators are the ones that have the power to change things.

I wish you luck and truly hope you are able to find a positive resolution to this issue without making your DD, yourself or the provider out to be the bad guy.

I'd start here when searching for alternate care arrangements: http://www.daycare.com/rhodeisland/

Last edited by Blackcat31; 04-11-2017 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:25 AM
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I wish you luck and truly hope you are able to find a positive resolution to this issue without making your DD, yourself or the provider out to be the bad guy.

I'd start here when searching for alternate care arrangements: http://www.daycare.com/rhodeisland/
Like I said I already started looking. I reached out to other parent's that have left, and it is hard to not make the provider the bad guy when she has treated so many other kids the same way. I didn't know. I only have their numbers from group texts. We never really spoke before. When taking care of someone else's kids, you have to remember you are their care provider, almost a second family. They are too young for anything else. If you can't treat them with love and understanding in what can be a challenging time in their life, you shouldn't be in the business. If it was just me, then fine, I understand, my kid is tough. If the other kids weren't successful in similar environments, then fine the environment needs to change. You never know what happens behind closed doors. One parent told me he caught her giving his dd a "pow pow" before putting her in the corner. I do not condone hitting. End of story. Time to take a leave from work and get her out of there.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:37 AM
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I haven't read through all of the responses yet, but the part about the provider throwing away your child really stuck out.

I see it as the opposite.

The provider is listening to your child and it seems like she is trying to get you to listen to your child as well.

Behavior is always a form of communication. This situation is not your fault, it's not your child's fault and it's not your provider's fault. It (as Cat said above) simply not a good fit.

It's like jeans. If the jeans don't fit you do you fault the store, the manufactuer or the jeans themselves? No. You try on another pair of jeans until they fit properly.

Best of luck with your childcare search
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:10 AM
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I tell prospective parents during interviews - not every daycare is right for every child. Right now, for whatever reason, your provider and your child aren't meshing.

Right or wrong, this is her business and she doesn't have to work with you.

As others with much more knowledge than I have pointed out that it's time to leave.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:41 AM
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I tell prospective parents during interviews - not every daycare is right for every child. Right now, for whatever reason, your provider and your child aren't meshing.

Right or wrong, this is her business and she doesn't have to work with you.

As others with much more knowledge than I have pointed out that it's time to leave.
Finding out that the daycare gives pow pows (Slaps on the wrist) is what makes this not a good fit. I wonder where she learned to hit from?
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.
The person making 1400/month needs to quit their day job and find an evening/weekend job.

On a 5 week month, you're paying $875, making 1400 (I'm assuming taxes need to be taken out, gas, and work related expenses) that's not even a 500/m profit.

This person could work JUST Saturday, make up the difference, and your daughter could stay home with a parent.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:47 AM
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Why oh why does every unhappy or disgruntled parent choose to take this route? *sigh*
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:49 AM
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You said another parent witnessed giving their child a 'pow wow' before putting them in the corner? Not sure what you mean by a pow wow but even just placing a child in a corner these days, is old school type of discipline. Even using time outs have pretty much become old school to most. They don't work, kids really don't sit there thinking about what they've done and what they should do instead but about how not to get caught or maybe even creating plans in their little minds with narrow blinders, about getting even.
It sounds like your provider has gotten to the frustrated, I can't do this anymore, stage of the game. Three little ones can be downright hard to have together. Jealousy can be a huge factor of course!! And as bad as a young child hitting an adult seems, I've had it happen to me. I say it does happen. I've been doing this 35 years. Kids bite you, hit you, spit at you, throw stuff at you. That does not mean you kick them out or refuse to work with them. That does not mean it's normal, or appropriate BUT until they learn better coping skills, it's what they know. In our view point, It does show disrespect but truthfully, how many kids that are 21 months old know what respect is yet? Kids get angry, upset, are strong-willed, and instead of calming themselves down and have an adult type conversation with the adult victim, they will strike out to the nearest person. Kids get mad. They take it out on someone. 21 months old?? Hardly out of babyhood. But you cannot make a provider deal with issues the same way you would like to see happen.

Do you know what the state requirements are in R.I. for child care? I'm simply asking because it sounds to me like it might benefit you and your little one, to keep her home with you until she's a little bit older. You could care for children, legally unlicensed(IF it's allowed in your state), even just 2 dcks might equal what you're bringing home now. Just a thought, I truly don't know. But it could be a temporary solution to your problem.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:50 AM
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and I'm NOT trying to be harsh, when I had my last child I was making enough to have $100/week left over out of my check after taxes and daycare. I spoke to dh. I quit my day job, and worked a few evenings and/or weekends. I made up the difference. Then I started doing daycare legally unlicensed (2 kids was 300/week then) and the rest is history.

In my case, I was so good at the job I never went back to my previous work. My kids are all in school now so working FT during the day isn't as much an issue, and there is no daycare associated with it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:52 AM
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Just read your pow wow post. Okay, yeh, not okay for any child and if it happened to my child I'm be as angry as a bee.

BC, please explain your last statement about disgruntled parents? I'm kinda dense.

Oop, just reread something that you were probably referring to. Just a bit slow today, 4 kiddos here and it seems like as soon as they lay down, they all have to get up and go potty again. Even if they went 4 minutes ago.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:54 AM
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Why oh why does every unhappy or disgruntled parent choose to take this route? *sigh*
I hear you. It's frustrating because so many lies are told that it's hard to know when it's truly happening. Disgruntled parents make up claims so often to 'get back' at the provider.

If her child has been there since 7 months and was doing great previously, I would tend to believe that these things WEREN'T happening. Who knows.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:00 AM
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BC, please explain your last statement about disgruntled parents? I'm kinda dense.

Oop, just reread something that you were probably referring to. Just a bit slow today, 4 kiddos here and it seems like as soon as they lay down, they all have to get up and go potty again. Even if they went 4 minutes ago.
No worries...

It always goes something like this:

Parent and provider are having an issue.
Parent doesnt get told what they want/get what they want the provider is automatically bad.
Other parents "said" X, Y or Z. NONE of which were variables in the situation until the parent didn't get the results or answer they wanted.

OP said her DD loves her provider.
OP said she didn't want to move her.
OP had NO complaints about provider.

Until none of us agreed or told her what she (OP) wanted to hear. Suddenly the provider is the now bad guy.....

Everyone likes you until you say no or fail to follow instructions, then we are the ones in the wrong.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:03 AM
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Haha, well I was totally off the mark. I thought it had something to do with not affording different dc or something. Guess my denseness is thicker than I thought.

Ok, back to business.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:03 AM
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Ok, I'm really going to be the bad guy and say this-

some behaviors that parents describe as normal are NOT normal. I have had 'temper tantrums' (described by parent) that reminded me of something out of the exorcist. It could have been escalated by this situation (jealousy of new infants) and now be SO extreme the provider wants to cover her butt by getting a dr involved.

I've seen autism, SPD/SID, ADHD, ODD, and learning disabilities WELL before a parent has.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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I've had this conversation with parents before. I'm trying to help them see that their child needs help, they see it as an assault and withdrawal of my affection for their child. I don't try to help families with kids I just plain don't like. I ask those families to leave. Not every child I have termed has been a child that I just didn't like (there have only been a couple of those in my career). Some of the last kids I termed were flat out my favorite kids ever (they still come spend the night with me from time to time). I had to term them because they were no longer doing well in my environment. They went to a friend of mine who is much more structured and much more strict than I. They needed an environment that I wasn't willing to provide (lots of rules and very strict discipline and punishment-I try not to use punishment in my home if I can avoid it).

Others are correct-you can't demand that the daycare work with you on YOUR child's behavior. That's a parental responsibility. The jealousy thing is surely part of the issue, but that isn't something that started at daycare-that's from your child's own sense of self and entitlement (this isn't a slam here, all kids feel that they are the center of the world to an extent).

The tantrums are normal. They start around age 2. Sleep regression is also normal around this age. Those aren't caused by the daycare provider, but by biology.

Hitting the provider, not being able to be redirected by the provider-those things don't fall under "normal" to me, either. Your child isn't broken. Your child isn't likely mentally ill. She just needs to learn that she needs to share her caregiver (and that's hard) and that she needs to respect adult authority. Rather than telling your provider to work with you, reach out and ask what you can do to work with her and make your child more comfortable and minimize disruptions to her environment.

I would suggest making an appointment with a children's therapist (for yourself-it's doubtful that they'd take on a child as young as yours) and ask for advice on how to help your daughter deal with what's going on, and what you can do at home to help her build confidence and feel less threatened by her loss of position as baby.

Contacting other parents, IMO, was an extremely immature thing to do. You're digging for dirt. You want someone to validate your feelings. It's quite unlikely that any other family who left, voluntarily or not, would have a lot of nice things to say. Remember that the reason your daughter feels her position is threatened is likely because this provider made her feel special and gave her "extra".
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:52 AM
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Unfortunately, I don't see another option at this time.

Your daughter is telling you that mixed age care is not for her. That is ok. There are as many types of daycare as there are many types of children.

Your daughter will most likely greatly benefit from being in a larger group of same aged children, instead.

A change of environment is exactly what I'd recommend to you as your provider in this scenario. I have been in business, successfully, 23 years, now. It is not you, it is not the provider, it is simply the environment and mismatched needs.

RIWorkingMom - I do feel Catherder gave you a really honest response, with a possible solution. Your child is trying to communicate her needs and part of our responsibility as parents is responding to those needs.

Realizing a place may no longer be the right fit is not something to be ashamed of or defensive about. Imagine what a gift it will be for your daughter for you to hear her and respond to her needs.

There are home-based programs that are 2+, I run one and love it! Due to my program being home-based it is multi-age (2-5 years) which I don't mind in small numbers however I also see the value in classes by age range and my own dd thrived in that setting (2s class, 3s class, etc.) My program offers so many enrichment activities built in that I know I could not do while also caring for infants.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:11 PM
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Above poverty level but barely
Soooo...then you would likely qualify for state assistance. There are tons of financial help for familes between 100% and 133% of poverty level.

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I reached out to other parent's that have left, and it is hard to not make the provider the bad guy when she has treated so many other kids the same way.
If she's only been in business 2.5 years, how does she have so many parents who have left?
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:44 PM
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No worries...

It always goes something like this:

Parent and provider are having an issue.
Parent doesnt get told what they want/get what they want the provider is automatically bad.
Other parents "said" X, Y or Z. NONE of which were variables in the situation until the parent didn't get the results or answer they wanted.

OP said her DD loves her provider.
OP said she didn't want to move her.
OP had NO complaints about provider.

Until none of us agreed or told her what she (OP) wanted to hear. Suddenly the provider is the now bad guy.....

Everyone likes you until you say no or fail to follow instructions, then we are the ones in the wrong.
Actually, as soon as you guys said that it wasn't a good fit, I started texting other parents to see where they went and how the kids adjusted. That's when I started hearing all of these things.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:46 PM
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Soooo...then you would likely qualify for state assistance. There are tons of financial help for familes between 100% and 133% of poverty level.

I do not qualify assistance, because we make just over the threshold. Believe me I looked into this

If she's only been in business 2.5 years, how does she have so many parents who have left?
That is a good question. Why would this perfect daycare provider have such a big turn over rate, and why is all toddlers and none of the infants?
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:46 PM
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I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.
Children are expensive.... what are you doing to change your income? I am not saying that to be rude but it's a reality. Maybe you need a new career. I live in a very high COL area so sharing rates from the other side of the country won't be helpful to you.

I will say that children don't stop being expensive...

There was a recent thread on childcare and cost here: http://daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38526
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:55 PM
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Ok, I'm really going to be the bad guy and say this-

some behaviors that parents describe as normal are NOT normal. I have had 'temper tantrums' (described by parent) that reminded me of something out of the exorcist. It could have been escalated by this situation (jealousy of new infants) and now be SO extreme the provider wants to cover her butt by getting a dr involved.

I've seen autism, SPD/SID, ADHD, ODD, and learning disabilities WELL before a parent has.
My 13 yr is just below the autism spectrum, and I noticed the signs first. This is different. This started day one of the new infant arrival. I offered to bring her to the doctor's the first day that she mentioned it because I wanted to work with her. She didn't ask. I offered. I offered because I knew that catching it early can help a child get through school, and deal with life. We put my son in a special school. I demanded that he see a psychiatrist. My mother has a psych degree from Cornell. She sees this as typical 2 yr old behavior as well. The doctor also witnessed a "tantrum" at the office. My daughter is afraid of the nurse whom she used to adore seeing. Then after receiving a few rounds of shots, my daughter became terrified of her. She attempted to guide her to the scale, and my daughter went limp on the floor and started whining. Not crying, not throwing herself around or thrashing or hit anyone. Not like anything out of the exorcist. She was scared and started to cry. That is it. The doctor witnessed it and said that was normal. She has an emotion she didn't know how to cope with and she cried. Maybe I made her sound more harsh than the situation is. I know what not normal looks like. I also know what a normal tantrum looks like. You guys are right, she is no longer comfortable there and this isn't a good fit. I called another daycare, and explained the situation. She laughed it off and she said there are just some kids who don't transition well (changing from the infant room to toddler room or going from playing outside to coming in for a nap) They said they have methods or easing these children into new situations that happen to be a good fit.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:58 PM
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Children are expensive. Yep! Knew that before I had them.

You prefer the Drs advice over the childcare providers advice so switch providers or stay at home and take in kids like we all did. I make a lot more than $14 an hour and I write off a lot of stuff for tax purposes. If you run into problems, just call your Dr for advice
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:35 PM
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I don't agree that mixed-age care isn't a good fit for your DD, but it sounds like this particular provider isn't a good fit for your DD. Since DD is used to being the "baby" she might have the same problems in a same-age group, because she won't be the "baby" there either.

ITA that you should look for someone who is able and willing to work with your DD without neglecting the other children.

And you're right that quality child care is expensive. On average it costs as much to get a child from infancy to school as it does to get a student through college, but there's MUCH less financial aid available for the early years than there is for college years. Which makes NO sense because parents of young children are generally young and starting out in their careers while parents of college students are usually older, established in their careers, and more financially stable. I don't know the answer, but I do feel for parents of young children. We were in college when our oldest children were in child care, and the price difference of just .50/hour meant we couldn't afford our first choice provider. (Yes, this is a soap box topic for me.)
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:50 PM
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IMO, your DD has outgrown her provider. It sounds to me like the provider may prefer caring for infants. I'm saying this only because of your comments regarding the others leaving around the age as your child.

The comments you've said about her calling these children abnormal isn't right!!! She's obviously not been around many children over 16months.. It's called the terrible 2's

I recommend you find a pre-school for your child. Look into state help for the payments.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:55 PM
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That is a good question. Why would this perfect daycare provider have such a big turn over rate, and why is all toddlers and none of the infants?
I took me just over 2 years in childcare to realize I am not cut out for infant care. I really enjoy the 2 - 5 yr old crowd. This provider is new, and may still be searching for her niche in child care. Unfortunately for you (and some of my previous families), you may be part of her learning curve.

She is not unkind or "throwing your child away". This is a business and she is hopefully learning what ages she can and can't work with.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:11 PM
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Most places I have worked used sign language for the 1-2 year mold crowd. It really helps the provider and child communicate better and lessens tantrums and frustrations.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:25 AM
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Default Thank you!

Thank you to the last few to reply. I can understand if the provider is not suited to take care of toddlers. The craziest part was yesterday afternoon when I picked her up we spoke about the topic again. She told me that they had a good day. She gave my dd an ultimatum she could understand. She gave them a time check before they came in (which the doctor recommended). Right before they went in for snack, she said if you cry (which is the majority of my daughter's tantrum.... laying down and crying) then we will not go back out to play. My daughter went in and did not throw a tantrum (miracles can happen!). She did whine for the entirety of the morning nap (she still has them on two naps a day). Other than that she did not have an episode for the rest of the day. Mind you, she only takes one nap a day at home. Maybe the first nap feels like a punishment. She is not tired. She just woke up. Maybe the time out is just not a good fit for her. Maybe ultimatums are something she can understand better.

I did speak to the provider and told her that I understand that she is having a tough time with my daughter, and that maybe she is ready for a pre-k type of environment. The provider started to tear up. She doesn't want to see my daughter go, and she has seen a lot of progress. (Remember that these "tantrums" started about two weeks ago) This is what is driving me crazy! I hear for 2 weeks how my daughter's behavior isn't normal and it feels like an attack. There is a huge change in her environment and she is having a tough time adapting. This is normal. There was a trigger, she reacted. There was modification in her discipline and routine, and she reacted well to it. The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart. I know there are some tough kids out there, but there are also some kids who have a tough time with change. I am still looking into a pre-k environment. My dd is smart. She knows her abcs, colors, shapes and counts to 10. She also sings countless other songs, and is great with completing puzzles beyond her age bracket. I want to keep her in an environment where she can flourish.

So again, thank you. Maybe the dc is great with babies, but not ready for toddlers. However, there are better ways to talk to parents than saying your kid is not normal.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:51 AM
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Did you inform the provider you would be pulling your child from care immediately yesterday?
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:07 AM
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Did you inform the provider you would be pulling your child from care immediately yesterday?
No. I did not say immediately. I told her that I thought she might be ready for a pre-k type of environment.

If the provider wants to work with my daughter, and my daughter is responding, and the provider stops calling my dd abnormal, then I don't think this is an emergency situation.

Also, I did take into consideration that some people leave and say bad things that may not be true, but I also took note of how the parent's with toddlers that left had a very similar experience to mine.

I am really going in circles in my head here. Is this a situation that must be remedied immediately? Do I need to get my dd out quick? Do I give the provider a chance to work with her? If my dd is responding to new methods, is it so bad? Am I expecting too much out of someone who may be bested suited for infant care and not toddler care?

Last edited by RIWorkingMom; 04-12-2017 at 07:11 AM. Reason: to add additional thought
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:15 AM
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No. I did not say immediately. I told her that I thought she might be ready for a pre-k type of environment.

If the provider wants to work with my daughter, and my daughter is responding, and the provider stops calling my dd abnormal, then I don't think this is an emergency situation.

Also, I did take into consideration that some people leave and say bad things that may not be true, but I also took note of how the parent's with toddlers that left had a very similar experience to mine.

I am really going in circles in my head here. Is this a situation that must be remedied immediately? Do I need to get my dd out quick? Do I give the provider a chance to work with her? If my dd is responding to new methods, is it so bad? Am I expecting too much out of someone who may be bested suited for infant care and not toddler care?
I work with a provider in my town that does under 2 care only. Her words, she is a babysitter and that's it.

As soon as her kids are about to age out of her program she gives the parents my information. It's not that she doesn't want to keep them, but she finds that the children outgrow what she can offer and they need more.

In return, I send her all of the children I get calls for, for under two and any current children younger siblings that are too young for our program.

I think maybe your provider is taking it personal, which I can understand... BUT your provider needs to understand that the child's needs must be met and that sometimes means letting go.

I'm sorry your in this situation, but it does get better. I like your idea of moving her to somewhere she can get access to learning and a structured schedule that better suits her abilities.

Good luck.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:38 AM
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It sounds normal to me, if your descritpion is accurate. Whether your child should be in group care or not isnt' for me to say...but she shouldn't be with THIS provider. I've done this for nearly 18 years now....and I'd just be sticking her in a pack-n-play until she calmed down every time. I wouldn't call it a punishment at all, just a safe place to calm down. Pick her up, without emotion, calmly place her in the crib, walk away and don't look back until I can tell she's starting to calm down a bit. Then once I knew she'd hear what I was saying I'd tell her.....I'll come get you when you're done.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:55 AM
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The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart. I know there are some tough kids out there, but there are also some kids who have a tough time with change.
When posters said your DD may not be thriving in a mixed age group or wasn't a good fit for group care was in NO WAY blaming the child.

That's like saying your DD doesn't like yellow and blaming the crayon. When something isn't a good fit, it's not HER fault. I don't think anyone said that.



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I am still looking into a pre-k environment. My dd is smart. She knows her abcs, colors, shapes and counts to 10. She also sings countless other songs, and is great with completing puzzles beyond her age bracket. I want to keep her in an environment where she can flourish.
This is a perfect example of the difference in perspective for parent and provider.

As a parent, the things you listed in support of "being smart" aren't at all the things I view as important.

Group care requires children to be able to have patience, ability to thrive in with mixed aged peers, have manners, not be physically aggressive, social-emotional growth-maturity, can communicate needs, can follow instructions, stay on task, be willing to participate and/or observe new activities etc....

Those things are what make a child independent and mature. Knowing ABC's and 1,2,3's are important but she'll learn those things in school later in life.... the things I listed are the things I work on with children and what I measure a child's successful developmental progress according to.

I have a 2.5 yr old in care that knows all her ABC's and 1,2,3's in both Spanish and English as well as many other memorized academics but the same child is lacking in independence and social emotional development and that is what will cause the most issues in life. Until those skills are mastered, the academics don't matter much.

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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
So again, thank you. Maybe the dc is great with babies, but not ready for toddlers. However, there are better ways to talk to parents than saying your kid is not normal.
I agree there are better ways for the provider to say your child is not normal but there are also better ways to communicate with each other in general.

As the parent, ask the provider to elaborate on what she means by "not normal".

Not normal in general or not normal in this providers experience or not normal for your DD. There are several meanings that could have been her intent. If you are unsure and want to work with her (provider) ask, talk, communicate! Open honest communication is THE key to a successful working relationship between parent and provider.

What I say and what a parent hears aren't always the same thing (your example illustrates that perfectly) so discussing something, asking for clarification, tips, tricks, ideas and resources is not only the providers responsibility but your's as well.

As for the 2 naps a day, your DD is a bit old to still be taking 2 naps a day but depending on how ling her day in care is, how restful her night time sleep is and other factors, she might need two naps but that is something I would definitely be discussing with the provider.

Providing child care is a learning experience for everyone. Even the provider. So communication as we go along on this journey is SOOOO important. It's the best way to ensure that your child's needs are being met!
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  #45  
Old 04-12-2017, 08:22 AM
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Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
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The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart.
Wow. You are gifted with the deflect, minimize, reverse and project. Luckily I can smell it like antibiotic poo in the diaper of a kid hiding in the block center. You asked for our opinions. Take it, leave it, but don't be an askhole.

With that, I am done with your thread. I sincerely want things to get better for your daughter. Good luck.

For newbies: There is online annual "working with difficult personalities" training for situations like this. Here is a direct quote from our most recent training.

"Here's a short list of the types of people I would lump into the "unreasonable":

*Those you can't have a reasonable conversation with; they somehow twist your words or totally confuse you and then tell you that you're the one who doesn't know how to communicate

*People who make subtly or overtly demeaning comments or say cutting things to you disguised as a "joke"

*Those that don't respect boundaries and seem to enjoy stepping all over one after you've placed it

*The types that aren't willing to consider your point of view or listen to your side of things (or just stare at you blankly, or laugh, or explode, when you try to explain "how you think or feel")

*Bullies

*Verbal or emotional abusers (these can also range from subtle to overt)

*Manipulators

*People who leave you feeling bad, sad, shaky or feeling sick in the pit of your stomach

*"Crazymakers," a.k.a. people who provoke you into acting crazy or unbalanced (and love making you feel like there's something wrong with you when you do), when your behaviour across the rest of your life is proof that you're not

*The excessively charming who are too good to be true and have an ulterior motive
__________________
- Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are personal opinion and worth what you paid for them.
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  #46  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:26 AM
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When posters said your DD may not be thriving in a mixed age group or wasn't a good fit for group care was in NO WAY blaming the child.

That's like saying your DD doesn't like yellow and blaming the crayon. When something isn't a good fit, it's not HER fault. I don't think anyone said that.
This is what made me feel that way:

some behaviors that parents describe as normal are NOT normal.

I've seen autism, SPD/SID, ADHD, ODD, and learning disabilities WELL before a parent has.


That felt to me to like the child is being blamed for not being normal or having a mental disorder. I went back and reread all of the comments. This one just stuck out in my head I guess as I felt it was harsh. I felt that this statement sounds like my word as a parent cannot be trusted or taken into consideration, and that this problem is most likely with the child. I could be reading too deeply in that, but it definitely stuck out. The comments about needing to change daycare because it might not be a right fit does not sound like anyone is blaming anyone else. I am sorry if you felt that was what I was getting at. I was hoping to keep my daughter in the same daycare because as you can see change is tough for her, but if it's not right then it is not right. I am taking your advice on moving her. I agree with you all and I am not blaming anyone for her. Reaching out to the other parents to see where they went was probably both a mistake and a blessing. I think it opened our eyes to the fact that she is probably best with infants and not toddlers, but the one parent (and only one parent) that mentioned the pow pow’s could be lying.

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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I agree there are better ways for the provider to say your child is not normal but there are also better ways to communicate with each other in general.
I'm trying. That's why I posted here. I usually let her talk. Ask what I can do. Offer some tips that worked with my dd when she is with me. It is hard to change her behavior when I am not there. She is not the same person at dc as she is at home, and I know this is typical. But all provider says is that she doesn't know what to do. That's why I offered to make a doctor's appointment to see if I can get a referral for a therapist. All I was told from the doctor was that her behavior is normal and very typical for this situation, and that she did not need therapy and that I am doing a good job. Like I said the dr witnessed a meltdown, saw how I handled it, and that it didn't last for more than 30 seconds. I know that she is going to act differently with me than with a dc provider. I know that. I also know that she spends a lot of time with the provider and that children tend to emote more around primary caregivers. Asking for the DR report felt like she didn’t believe me.

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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
As the parent, ask the provider to elaborate on what she means by "not normal".
She said that the hitting when she is in the corner and going limp and crying when she goes in the corner, and biting herself (by the way, just found out her two year old molars are coming in and by biting herself she means that she is biting her fingers. She has been sticking almost her whole hand in there and biting them), not sharing well, crying when they have to stop playing and crying when I drop her off is not normal. Mind you she didn’t have these problems before the new babies. I believe that this is normal behavior all things considered. I do not believe it is acceptable behavior, but it is definitely normal.
Also, note my earlier comment that she gave her an ultimatum and that worked well. What sets her off is very predictable, so by saying if you cry when we go in for snack you can’t come out and play worked better than the corner!
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
What I say and what a parent hears aren't always the same thing (your example illustrates that perfectly) so discussing something, asking for clarification, tips, tricks, ideas and resources is not only the providers responsibility but your's as well.
She hasn't offered anything as far as tips or tricks or what she needs from me. I have been going mad doing research. Hence the dr visit and reaching out to people who have most likely dealt with this.

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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
As for the 2 naps a day, your DD is a bit old to still be taking 2 naps a day but depending on how ling her day in care is, how restful her night time sleep is and other factors, she might need two naps but that is something I would definitely be discussing with the provider.
This is the toughest one and probably the biggest reason I need to change her daycare. I have told her that I hear two is when most kids phase out of the 2 naps. I told her that maybe my dd doesn’t need it anymore. If she has to have all of the kids on a two nap schedule this won't work for DD. This is also one of the things she said wasn't normal. Ya know the fact that she wont take her morning nap anymore, and that she whines the entire time. I tried explaining to her that she simply outgrew it. She is almost 2. She goes to bed at 7:30 PM and wakes up at 6:30 AM. She is not going to go down for a nap at 7:30 AM. I spoke to my mom about this and she was the one that told me that she may feel like she is being punished by being forced to lay down and not make a noise when she has just woken up and is full of energy.


Also, My mom, who majored in psych and did her dissertation on child development, also states that her tantrums are on par with her age and the new baby situation.

I also want to throw in there that the dc provider has often said I am one of her favorite parent. I am always willing to work with her. I always know when to drop of diapers and wipes, and I always pay on time. SO... I just want you all to know that I am trying to be proactive, but I really haven't addressed that the whole not normal thing bothering me. Can I tell her that it bothers me? Do you think that it is worth it or should I just shut my mouth? I have an appt on Friday for a pre-k who said they have had many kids like my dd who are going through the terrible twos and have problems adapting and are prepared to work with her, and have a counselor on staff. My MIL can watch her two days, so I can put her in part time and actually save $$! They have an opening in 3 weeks. How do I break the news to the dc without breaking her heart?
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:33 AM
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Op- I didn't see a single person blaming your daughter.

As a less experienced provider, you really have NO IDEA how hard it is for a provider to discuss behavioral challenges with a parent. It sounds like this is (atypical) not normal behavior FOR YOUR DAUGHTER.

I agree with Black cat.

I would also ask provider if she can get together for a conference after hours, and go over what you're doing at home, what you're willing to do, what the doctor said (and bring documentation, if necessary). Ask provider what's going on at DC, and what she's willing/capable of doing to assist your daughter. TELL her you're working with her, but ask if it's beyond manageable. It's ok to part ways if it's in your child's best interest.

MANY providers (that would charge similar rates) operate a more structured program with similarly aged kids (eg I run 18m-5 years but I only take one under 2, so my kids that start at 18m ARE the baby here (and treated like it!), for a good 6 months). It gives them a wonderful opportunity to learn from the bigger kids, and my big kids learn patience and kindness towards their younger classmate.
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  #48  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:49 AM
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Providers do get attached to their kiddos and hate to see them move on, BUT don't let it be a deterrent as to your decision. Just be honest and use a very common line that providers use.....'I'm sorry but I don't believe your program fits my child's needs any longer'.

I wish you the best. I truly do. Change comes into everyone's lives but it's so hard to help little ones who go through it. They can act out in a myriad of ways. One of my dcgs' family brought a new baby into the mix and dad moved out when the baby was a week old. Dcg went through so much emotional turmoil and misbehavior for a few months. It was so sad to see and she was so frustrating to work with but dcps are now reconnecting and dcg is 6 months older, doing much better! While it may not be a normal reaction to a horrible(especially through the eyes of a child)situation change, it certainly was not unexpected.

I kind of find the term 'normal' to be irrelevant. Not one child is like another. So wth IS normal anyways??
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  #49  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:50 AM
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It sounds like this is (atypical) not normal behavior FOR YOUR DAUGHTER.
Oh I know it is not, but the daycare has told me that she has never seen this with any kid ever. That she called her teacher, and other providers, her sister, her mother and they have never ever had a kid that has tantrums. I find that hard to believe because they literally coined a phrase for them... terrible twos. She also said this to other parents before me. I agree it is no longer the right fit and I am getting her out of there. I am listening guys. I do agree with you. I just don't want to cause anyone any undue heartbreak.. my daughter... the dc provider. anyone.. After yesterdays talk, I don't think she is going to be happy to see my dd leave, but I can't keep hearing that my daughter is not normal
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:54 AM
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Has this provider never had 2-4 yos before?? Temper tantrums are not fun but they're pretty common as children progress from being a totally dependent infant to a little being who realizes what they do can reap attention, benefits, choices, etc. It's called a mind of one's own. And nearing the 2's they realize they have one, they're just not sure how to use it yet.
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  #51  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Josiegirl View Post
Has this provider never had 2-4 yos before?? Temper tantrums are not fun but they're pretty common as children progress from being a totally dependent infant to a little being who realizes what they do can reap attention, benefits, choices, etc. It's called a mind of one's own. And nearing the 2's they realize they have one, they're just not sure how to use it yet.
They don't stay. There is only one girl left that is in that age group. Everyone else has left. They were told their kids behavior isn't normal. That's why I agree with a few of the posters here. Maybe she is better suited for infant care, and not toddler care.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RIWorkingMom View Post
Oh I know it is not, but the daycare has told me that she has never seen this with any kid ever. That she called her teacher, and other providers, her sister, her mother and they have never ever had a kid that has tantrums. I find that hard to believe because they literally coined a phrase for them... terrible twos. She also said this to other parents before me. I agree it is no longer the right fit and I am getting her out of there. I am listening guys. I do agree with you. I just don't want to cause anyone any undue heartbreak.. my daughter... the dc provider. anyone.. After yesterdays talk, I don't think she is going to be happy to see my dd leave, but I can't keep hearing that my daughter is not normal
I think you're doing the right thing.

It was me who said that about behavioral issues. Because I have an associates in early childhood development, and a bachelors in early childhood education, and am currently in a masters program, have over 17 years of child care experience, and over 6 years as a licensed provider, I have a good grasp on what IS atypical behavior.

I wasn't saying your daughter had abnormal behaviors, just that what a PARENT- with more limited child care education and experience sees as normal, and what an educated, experienced provider KNOW are normal behaviors can be very different.

Typical temper tantrums are VERY normal, but I have had parents say that their child has typical temper tantrums, and what I witnessed was a two hour long self harming NOT typical 'temper tantrum'.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:57 AM
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I think you're doing the right thing.

It was me who said that about behavioral issues. Because I have an associates in early childhood development, and a bachelors in early childhood education, and am currently in a masters program, have over 17 years of child care experience, and over 6 years as a licensed provider, I have a good grasp on what IS atypical behavior.

I wasn't saying your daughter had abnormal behaviors, just that what a PARENT- with more limited child care education and experience sees as normal, and what an educated, experienced provider KNOW are normal behaviors can be very different.

Typical temper tantrums are VERY normal, but I have had parents say that their child has typical temper tantrums, and what I witnessed was a two hour long self harming NOT typical 'temper tantrum'.

She said the longest they have lasted have been twenty minutes. I asked her what she did when dd was throwing a tantrum. She said she tried to pick her up, and talk to her, or she had tried to hold her. I recommended that she put her in the port-a-crib (yes my dd still has one there. She cannot upgrade to a cot until she is 2) and calmly walk away and come back when she calms down. That when she is worked up and she is getting crowded (this is also when she tends to swat at people) This went from 20 minute fits to 2 minute fits if that often shorter. The only time she whines (and not throws a big fit but sniffles and does the deep inhale) for a long time is when she is put down for her morning nap, and that is for 1 1/2 hours. They have 2 2 hour naps a day. My dd comes a little later than the rest of the kids so it is only 1 1/2 hrs for her. This is why I personally believe they are normal tantrums. She did react well to the new method. The tantrums are completely predictable and avoidable. Giving her advance notice before an activity ends, giving ultimatums, and not crowding her or giving her attention when she doesn't know how to cope with her emotions. Oh and the self harming bit.... We just learned that she was getting her two year old molars and that is why she was "biting herself"

And you are right about your qualifications providing you more insight. My dcp was previously a dental hygienist who is brand new at this and only had to take 24 hours worth of courses. I am not discounting her experience, but I will say that I do value yours more. I wish you knew me because you would know I am particularly harsh on what is normal and what is not normal and that is how we caught my son's issue early on and how he succeeded. I pretty much did the same thing. Brought him for an eval, and they were like woah yup time for a psych eval. Cognitively at 3 he scored at the level of a 9 year old, but socially he was beneath an 18 month old. I have seen abnormal behavior. This is not it. This is just a kid who listens to mom but not the provider and is ready for a change.

Last edited by RIWorkingMom; 04-12-2017 at 12:01 PM. Reason: add a thought
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:33 PM
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It's becoming pretty clear as to where the child gets her need for attention.
If your mother is a psychology major who did her dissertation on child development for her Master's degree why aren't you going to her with all of this? Wouldn't she be the best resource for normal or abnormal?
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  #55  
Old 04-12-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
It's becoming pretty clear as to where the child gets her need for attention.
If your mother is a psychology major who did her dissertation on child development for her Master's degree why aren't you going to her with all of this? Wouldn't she be the best resource for normal or abnormal?
Because I figured I would go to providers to see what they recommend based off of experience...
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  #56  
Old 04-14-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat Herder View Post

For newbies: There is online annual "working with difficult personalities" training for situations like this. Here is a direct quote from our most recent training.

"Here's a short list of the types of people I would lump into the "unreasonable":

*Those you can't have a reasonable conversation with; they somehow twist your words or totally confuse you and then tell you that you're the one who doesn't know how to communicate

*People who make subtly or overtly demeaning comments or say cutting things to you disguised as a "joke"

*Those that don't respect boundaries and seem to enjoy stepping all over one after you've placed it

*The types that aren't willing to consider your point of view or listen to your side of things (or just stare at you blankly, or laugh, or explode, when you try to explain "how you think or feel")

*Bullies

*Verbal or emotional abusers (these can also range from subtle to overt)

*Manipulators

*People who leave you feeling bad, sad, shaky or feeling sick in the pit of your stomach

*"Crazymakers," a.k.a. people who provoke you into acting crazy or unbalanced (and love making you feel like there's something wrong with you when you do), when your behaviour across the rest of your life is proof that you're not

*The excessively charming who are too good to be true and have an ulterior motive
This is awesome. Thank you.
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2017, 03:58 PM
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OP,
You answered your own question.

It sounds to me like you feel that your dd is not thriving there, and the provider is not the one for her.

There is no answer but to put in your notice, and find other care.

$$ aside, you have to do what's best for your child, and sometimes, that's the hardest part of being a mother.

Just do it, and get it over with. Then all of this back and forth and trying to decide will be a done deal, and you won't have so many worries on your plate on top of everything else.

And I really would not necessarily go seeking information from other parents. What is the point? You already know what needs to be done.

Just make sure you give proper notice (as there is no abuse going on- a provider's opinion on your child's behavior being abnormal is not a cause for concern), and make sure you're all paid up for what you use/notice period.
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